 I'm already obsessed guys. I'm couples goalsing it, I'm shipping it, I've been loved, I'm inspired. You've got couple goals too. The two of you are just a joy and I've got to start from the beginning because, okay influencer, can you focus? Okay, focus it. Focus, but you're phone away. I am, go away. We were talking on your podcast, beautiful conversation and I mentioned that Jared and I started out as fuck buddies and you were like, me too. That might've been the first time I experienced that. So start from the beginning and don't skip details. Wait, that's the first time? No way. I think that I'm married. Friends with benefits and fuck buddies, I will say that, I differentiate. So fuck buddies is genuinely like, I wasn't even friends with you. I just thought you were hot and this is how we were like compatible. True. I didn't even think of you as a friend. Oh my God, that's so funny. And we elevated to friends and then. So it's interesting, Nish was a surface level friend I would say like someone in like a college dorm and I thought he was really cute, but I had a boyfriend when we first met and I would see him in the elevator. I still remember like, oh, like he's like a cute guy and I didn't act on it for a long time and then we were introduced just through mutual friends in the cafeteria and there was just a lot of chemistry and then what ended up happening was we started hooking up and I was sadly still with my ex. Yeah, and kind of a shitty thing to do. You were cheating. Like I was young, okay? I say though that like, does it even count as cheating when you're that young? Well, okay, here's it. Okay, yes. But also. At that point I didn't. But also, so we used to live in the same residence and so literally you'd be living together, eating together because there's a cafeteria and stuff like that. So you're spending a shit ton of time together and for Sif and I, I was just like, where is this boyfriend? So I actually didn't even know she had a boyfriend even when like many, many weeks into us meeting. It wasn't until after we became fuck buddies that I'm like, oh wait, there's a boyfriend in this picture because I heard about this guy from someone else because that's how not present he was in like our day-to-day life. Is that true? You didn't tell me you had a boyfriend when you guys started having sex? No, it just never came up because we weren't good friends. If it was like a good friend and they knew what was going on in my life and like they really knew me, then of course it would come up, right? But like we were friendly. We were in similar friends groups that would overlap but more so it would like we'd go out together at night, you know? Because it was like a big friends group in college and so we'd be going out and like just doing fun shit like that, you know? And I was attracted to him and like of course it was a shitty thing to do, right? Like in retrospect, it was a really shitty thing to do. It wasn't by the way planned or anything. We were out like at a club and that's where we hooked up the first time. Yeah, yeah. And place called Tequila Jocks. Like what do you expect? And what happened is really immediately within a couple of months of us hanging out more and more and just like obviously becoming friends over time, it was really obvious that we also kind of wanted to be in a relationship because it wasn't... It was interesting and I still remember the switch that happened where like I told my best friends that were my best friend that we were hooking up and I was like, nope, but I don't see it going anywhere. He's just like, he's like fun, you know? Like he's fun to hook up with and like obviously I liked his company but I didn't necessarily see it as, that's not where my headspace was, you know? And then over time as we were hooking up we're obviously spending more and more time together and then I was like, wait, like I actually really like him and I remember that switch happening because it was nearing like the summer and he was going away to Calgary for the summer. I was, yeah. Yeah, he was going away to Calgary for the summer and I was like, well, shit, like I don't want him to like go and like hook up with other people while he's away and like I don't want to hook up with anyone either. Like this is weird. And I'm not saying that you go into something and you're like, I'm going to change a man. I don't believe in that, right? But what I'm saying is there's beauty in the unknown. There was no real expectation from either party. It's just we were getting to know each other as this whole thing happened. And what we discovered along the way was how compatible we were and how much we liked each other. And I don't know, like had we gone into anything with the mentality that like, okay, this is what I want. Like I want to be in a relationship or not. I don't think anything would have happened between us. And I like we're 11 years into our relationship. Do you have any people who resent your story because most of the time what happens in these dynamics is maybe they do agree at the beginning. And then a week later, somebody else wants something more and the other person doesn't. That's exactly what happens usually. And this awkward toxic dynamic now ensues. And that's how we enter into an era of situations. So most people would say like either one, don't do fuck buddies or friends with benefits or two, don't try to make it anything more. So these success stories are rare. I know, I know it's so rare and like, were we lucky? I don't know. I think we're lucky for sure, but I also don't think that this is usually what works because I've had sex buddies in the past and that didn't work out. And when I think of that, it was just because it was truly just not compatible. And I think, and when I think about it, it's really clear because it was always, you don't feel equally the same way to move along. And that's what it is. So if you feel that you're the one who's catching feelings and the other person's not, then it most probably is not gonna work out. And when it's clear, it's really, really clear. The thing is that it's usually actually not gonna work out, but when it's clear, the other person wants to spend time with you. Like you're not just going over to have sex. You're going over to do much more than that or you're hanging out outside of just doing that as well. And- It's mutual. It's very, very mutual. You want to spend more time with the other person and also you're starting to click on other parts of life. Like that's just like we talked about before, but if those things aren't happening, then you're really just there to be fuck buddies and that's totally fine. Yeah, I remember being in a situation ship as well. And there was like, I had really good chemistry with this guy. I thought he was like really funny and blah, blah, blah. But I was obviously much more interested than he was. And I think when you're in it, it's like you're blind and then you get out of it and you're like, but now I can see, you know? And it's like, I was obviously trying to force this thing. I would tell myself narratives based on like a couple of texts. You know what I mean? And like make something out. It was like I was creating a story. And so many times people tend to do that, but it's like, I don't know. You almost have to take like a bird's eye view and maybe have friends in there who are like, okay, like are you really seeing what I'm seeing or am I just telling myself lies, you know? Because- I don't think like the advice here is like to go get a relationship from a fuck buddy. I actually bad advice. I don't think that is the way to go and find relationships. I think that if you're doing that is because you've found someone who you wish to further something with. And, or if you've said the intention that you're just fuck buddies, then like I don't think you should try to make that anything more. Cause if that's set from the beginning is usually that is not going to work out. And if you're actually getting into something and you're having sex as a, as a result of hanging out with someone more or as a result of seeing someone more, that is totally different than being like, hey, I want you to be my fuck buddy. And then, oh, nevermind. I actually want, I see something more with you. I think those are very two very distinct different scenarios that you're in. My favorite quote that I say a billion times over is like healthy intimacy is just one step at a time. And then you take a step and you look at each other and you're like, do you want to lay down here? Do you want to go back to the other step? Do you want to move forward? Should we go left for a bit? And instead of trying to like aggressively move forward, you're just taking this scenic slow intentional route which allows you to one move forward just naturally or two to end things long before you get frustrated that you're dragging the other person and like they've stopped walking 12 steps back. Yeah. And when it came to the relationship it was really just about is this person a compatible and fun person to be with? And compatibility did not even have a deep meaning to it because at that kind of when you're that young, it's just like, okay, are we having fun? Is this person being able to see me where I am enough because we were traveling a lot of the time? Well, Shan, do you remember when you came on my podcast you shared this tip like, which I think he's putting in different words but like it's the same thing, right? That like, if you know that XYZ is important to you think about the type of people that do XYZ and then go hang out in that place. I think as you were talking, I was thinking of that that the adage is like love comes to those who aren't looking, which is half complete because it comes to those who aren't looking but are fully living. So you have to lean into your interests, lean into your hobbies, lean into your values, live it, be out loud, be out there in the world and then you're gonna be around like-minded people. And like you said, it doesn't mean that you're gonna stumble upon your perfect partner on day one. It means that you're more likely to be in the network of people who your perfect partner would associate with. And have fun along the way. Like it shouldn't feel like this like horrible like teeth pulling process. Like I think that it should be a fun thing. Like dating should be fine. Like being in a relationship should be fun. And I feel like if you go into it with the premise of like such pressure and like anxiety I think that that's the energy you're bringing into it as well, it's just a lot of pressure you're putting on yourself. I feel the energetics around this. I really, really feel that. Do you know where I wanna go with this though? Cause like I'm kind of like, I always try and think about the person who's rolling their eyes right now because I remember when I was in Toronto, I did photography. She's from Toronto by the way as well. Yeah. Oh what? Yeah, from Toronto. So I went to school for journalism and I did wedding photography as a way to like fund myself through school. Didn't get a job afterward so I had to keep doing it. So it was a thing that I did, I didn't love it but I was doing it and like you make good money that way. And I remember just thinking to myself like money is so easy, people stress about money and this big thing like they put so much pressure just like be relaxed about it and money comes to you. And then I moved to LA and obviously I didn't have a network for here for weddings. I didn't wanna start that cause this, my true passion was talking about sex and relationships so I had to reallocate my time and then money was so fucking hard to come by. Like I was continuously like $3 in my account and I was like what was I talking about? Money is easy when you found a way to make easy money. Money flows when you were in a system or a network of thing where it's flowing. So it's easy for you guys because you're 21. You met at 21. So the stakes weren't high. You were in places where it was plentiful to find partners. You were obviously both good looking people so the way that it was easy for you. By the way I have to say we did not look like this. Oh I looked so bad. We were so bad. I was probably one of the ugliest he was ever. I'm telling you right now. This is pretty bad. For both of us. No you were cute. And I'm gonna pull up an image. It's bad. I was like oh. Really bad. You're saying you're saying that. But I guess the point I'm making is that like this idea that I have that idea too. And I think actually when I turned 30 is when I started to date with that ease and fun and relaxation and curiosity. And I was talking to this in their podcast that I would go on dates with just like what can I gain? And it wasn't always a husband or a boyfriend or a fuck buddy. Sometimes it was information on how to distribute products in China. Whatever it was. So I had that mindset and I just enjoyed the experience more. But I also didn't struggle for dates. I didn't struggle to get callbacks. Well why do you think you didn't struggle? I mean there's two stories to this. There is the way that I look and the confidence that I have, the background, it's the privilege element of the things I had no control over. And there's also the things that I did have control over. Well the confidence piece, Shan, is I think that anyone can work on it. It's like a muscle. I meet the most beautiful women with not one ounce of confidence and they really struggle when they're going out on dates or fuck the dates. Like even when they're just out in the real world. And so yes, like there is such a thing as pretty privilege and I want to recognize that. However, I've also seen guys who are like maybe threes but have the best personality. And oh my God, it's like bees to fucking honey. Like the guy, I mean, you're a three but you look like suddenly after getting to know you attend. So I feel like that piece of it, like what you're saying about not struggling to get callbacks and stuff. Yes, you're a beautiful woman. But at the same time, if your personality was shit, I don't know how many callbacks you'd get. And even if your personality is great and you look great, but there's a desperation to you. There's also a psychological element that comes into play when we come across somebody who's too available. Like we don't like the nightclub with no lineups because we're like, why does nobody else want to go in here? The restaurant where all chairs are available, we're like, nobody else wants to eat here, even if it's great. So there is that element, I think that comes into play where if you have a, I think LA teaches you that, bar none. Desperation is, our sixth sense is detecting desperate people. And there's something about that ick that you get when you're around somebody who needs something from you, whether that be a title or a future or purpose or love or even sex that it think is very repellent. You know, a good example of this is, have you ever gone through a period where like for a long time, you're like single and like you're just really fucking single, okay? And then you're like, I don't give a fuck. And then one guy rolls around and then all of a sudden, it's like you are a magnet to so many people and it's not just men, it's like jobs. You are unemployed forever. Then you get one offer letter and then it's like six offer letters all at the same time and you're like, why are they all coming at once? And the only way to explain that is energy, right? Because it's not an experience that is unique to me. I'm sure you've had it. I'm sure you've had it. I'm sure anyone who's listening has had that experience. So like explain that to me in any way outside of the fact that it's like the energy that you're putting out into the world and like the ease that you're kind of navigating things with. Yeah, and I wanna put energy in like something tangible because it is just your presence. That's another way of saying it. It's really the way you put yourself out there. I think that's what it is. And so when I think about it, for example, when I decide, okay, I remember telling my friend specifically this. I was like, you know what Tim? I think I'm gonna have a girlfriend this time next year. So, and he's like, really? And he's like, why makes you say that? I'm like, I don't know. I don't think I am. And when I remember saying that to him and then literally, it came into my life less than a year from then. And it's just because I was like, yeah, I really wanna put myself out there. I really wanna meet the right person. I really wanted to have more fun in that part of my life. And when I went out to do that, like the way I put myself out there was like, hey, I am actually a really fun person. Like, let me also make your life fun by adding my presence in there. And hopefully you'll reciprocate. And so that's what I was doing, especially like obviously with Yousaf. And it's why we had so much more fun together. It was more so about like truly going out there with the intention of having such a good time and meeting the right person as a result of that. And that's what resulted in this relationship really growing more and more over time. But, you know, it wasn't about, oh my God, I'm really looking for something here. There, yeah. I think when you came on the podcast, you shared.