 How are you brother? Hi, I'm good. Yeah. Very good, Chris. Very good. Good. Thanks so much for joining me on the Bought the T-Shirt podcast, mate. And my God, your life reads like good fellows or something. It's been, you know, it's certainly been, they can call me many things but they can't call it boring. You know, most of the things were being called already. You know, it doesn't matter. But look, you know, for me, for me, I believe everyone has a story, Chris. Everyone has a life and we're all overcoming things and it's about improving as human beings. Yes, exactly. We're all starting to get there, aren't we? Eventually, or a lot of us are. Can we talk about your childhood in my old stomping ground, which was Northern Ireland. It was Belfast, wasn't it? Belfast, yeah. Yeah, I recognise a few bits from your book there and got a bit of deja vu. How was that? Because you weren't, you didn't have a religion there, did you? You moved there as a child? I was born here, Chris, and I was taken over there as a baby, six months old. I had no recollection of going back. My family was from there, you know, the heritage. And the first thing I would say is it was wonderful people and it's a magical place, you know. And for me, the bottom line is I just think it's so war is so sad, really, because it repeats itself. You know, we can all say we're from this faction or we're fighting for this cause or we're part of this. But really, you know, I understand, you know, I'm well first, I'm well educated and, you know, I know a lot of peace. It needed war, you know, to attain it, really. I mean, I know that. The real fact is that war is always ugly. It's never beautiful. It turns brother against brother and it does all these unspeakable things. It gets very twisted. Did you know that, Chris? And he got particularly nasty over the water, didn't it? There was so much hatred. That just adds another, you know, another angle on it. And I must be honest, if I can come in there to really narrow that this is a massive subject, obviously very loaded. But just to narrow this, the best way I ever heard it said was by Martin Luther King. And he said, hatred will never overcome hatred. Only love can do that. I thought that was so wise. Yeah, never a true word said, eh? It makes so much sense. I mean, we've been there, haven't we? We've been there in the 20s. We've been there with the bullets and the tracer rounds flying. We know when that feels like, we know the terror of it all, right? You know, all of that stuff, right? It's not a nice thing. And you know, when this stuff really happens and it explodes, everything gets twisted to the point that people don't even know why they're there at some point or what they're actually doing or why they're actually doing. So this is what happens with this stuff once it explodes. And of course, when a journey comes out of its bottle, it's very mentally hard and impossible to put it back in there, right? Yeah, you're so right, Stephen. There's loads of other angles, aren't there? First of all, if you spend your whole life hating, all you're doing is blocking yourself from enlightenment, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, we are definitely here to experience as human beings. This is definitely what it's about for us. And there is a duality in life, these forces like light and dark, night and day. So there is, you know, it's not in many ways, there's no right or wrong. Although there is, there is, you know, but you know, really, what I've learned of all the stuff I've been through is the journey for us is internal and it's personal. It's not about destroying everything, you know, it's about us conquering ourselves first, which is a lifelong task, Chris. It's a lifelong battle. So, you know, when we're thrown in by other forces or whatever into situations that we don't even really understand and have to deal with it, you know, and we're not even in a good place ourselves in many respects. The outcomes of that are pretty obvious, I would say. Do you think, Steve, that unless you're like really fortunate, maybe you've had well-balanced parents or something that you need a bit of hardship in your life to kind of know where you're at, you know, something to build upon? Look, I certainly think, you know, if we look at our families, we look at our friends, the people we know, everyone has hard times. Everyone gets lost along the way, some more than others, but you know, definitely, you know, I really great human beings who've achieved exceptional things are forged by real adversity. You will find in pretty much every case. I mean, I've said this, you know, they're ridiculed, they're dragged through the streets. They, you know, they hit real depressions or worse, you know, they jump all these fences onto, you know, and there's some real exponential learning within this. But again, you know, the proofs are again that this exponential learning is internal to the person. You know, I had a person, I used to come in and see this Buddhist monk years ago at the start of my transformation. And he was a real, you know, he was really high, right? And learned, you know, in this way of life. And I just go and talk to him. It was part of my recovery, you know, and I just talked to him. And there's one thing he always said that stuck with me. And it was just so true, so simple. He said, Stephen, the further you can reach in will be the further that you can reach out. And I've never forgotten that. And he's so right. How wise was that? Everything I've ever learnt since then has gone, he's been spot on with that. But our lives and the way it's structured is back to front in so many ways. Some of this is done on purpose, obviously, you know, because we're powerful beings. It's just finding ourself is a prerequisite to us going on to get our happiness and our security and stuff like that. And the way this world is structured, we're up against it as soon as we pop our head out. That's the truth. Yeah, let's come on and talk about the Enlightenment sort of side of stuff and finding heaven on Earth, which is, you know, inside our heads, isn't it? But how did that affect you then in Belfast? Because you saw some pretty horrific stuff. You saw a guy getting shot. Yeah, this is the... I've learnt Chris as well, especially now that life is so full of paradoxes, especially the really great stuff. You know, it's like Anthony Hopkins, you know, for instance, just to give an example, what a screenplay, what an absolute master of that art he is. But when you see the real person on an interview, he's so shy. Life weaves this like a bit of bright and rock, I've realised. I'm very deep with this stuff, but I see the patterns. I see the patterns, Chris. When we become, have a real life experience, we can join the dots a lot more, and we see the patterns. And the paradox in Ireland was such a wildly beautiful country with wonderful people, but had such a long history, tumultuous long history that it couldn't, was locked into and really couldn't escape. So these conditions were set hundreds and hundreds of years ago, you know, really, you know that we're talking about. So here we are, this thing is turning and turning and turning, reinventing itself pretty much, and... But what a beautiful place with beautiful people, because people are, but they're locked into this, you know, I mean, growing up there at that time, especially in the early 70s, because as you know, was a very unique place. It was a very unique place. And if you was just happened to be brought up or be there, whether you was in the army or you was there or whatever you was there for, at that time, you'd have been affected by that, by what was going on there. But behind that is so much beauty. This is very sad. This is very sad. It's so wasteful. This is the truth for everyone involved. Yes. When you've got power plays and you get dragged into that, your life to a degree is always serving someone else's agenda, isn't it? You know, and they don't really care about your welfare. They're more worried about stroking their own ego. It becomes a numbers game, really. The higher you go up, it becomes a numbers game, unfortunately. It's faceless, right? And you know, the agendas and the initiative, they shift like the light wanes in the night, really. Life is like this, right? Now, again, not saying there's any wrong or right. It just is. This is another thing with people that I've learned is everyone has to solve everything. And everyone has to make everything complicated. Yes, it is. And some things are, but the best things are always simple. And you know what? Some things, Chris, they just are. I've learned that. They just are. They don't have to be made complicated or made into something that they're not. They just are and be left with it. Human beings find this hard to see the difference. Have you noticed that? Yes. And I guess we should, with respect to Northern Ireland or United Ireland, whatever the case may be, let's not gloss over the fact it is a complex situation. It is passionate in many people's hearts on both sides of the divide and also the military that have served over there. I wish there was like a, I don't know if unilateral is the right word, but an agreement across the board that could just make everybody, you know, that would just suit everybody. Obviously, we know that there is one. It's called love, right? But not everyone's going to be at that stage in their life, especially when they're not a young, you know, when they're a young thruster brought up in a rough neighbourhood with... It doesn't know any better. And who's programmed in a certain way to look at the world and people, places and things in a certain way? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Very much. I talk a lot about left brain thinking and I'm not a biologist, but I maybe even use it as a sort of symbolism or metaphor for... It's easy to control people through this part of the brain that relates to their ego and relates to emotions like hatred, envy, jealousy, greed, sexuality, all these kind of base desire. Primitive. Yeah. That's a great conversation we've had there just in five minutes, Chris. It's so enlightening, but when you look at human beings, it's so complex in the... We have our gifts, we have our strengths, our weaknesses, but we're also loaded with other mechanisms and then we're carrying... We start carrying baggage from, you know, through our lives that is like a ton of bricks. I mean, this is why, look, you know, for the viewers, you know, to spice up this book, you know, the monkey puzzle tree, it's selling out all over the world. One of the reasons that it is, is yeah, you know, there's all that stuff in there from, you know, Belfast to East London, you know, organized crime, being a category A prisoner in prison within prisons, becoming one of the most dangerous, as they say, prisoners in the UK to coming out, to going on, to being a globally successful entrepreneur, humanitarian, philanthropist, peace ambassador, to last year being nominated for the International Peace Prize, right? So we really know quite a story, and it's true. Obviously, this book, it's going to be a major film. But look, what I want to say, so the viewers just go really quick what it is, you know, the interest, what I really want to say is, one of the reasons about this book, all right, is why it's so successful, certainly, and people want to read it and take that journey with me, is it's a very human book, Chris. It's a human book. And I've been very brave and courageous in the sense that I knew I had kind of, it is, you know, esoteric really less known knowledge of a life lived that can improve so many lives and I knew a key to that was not just being able to write it in a good way and produce the books, which I'm really privileged to have done. It's really well written, but keep to the authenticity of the story. What's an all Chris, the whole nine yards, and it's all in there. You know, I was sectioned there's mental health in there. There's addiction overcome addiction, 12 years clean now. The civil war in Ireland, the civil unrest now, organized crime in East London or straight to the very top violence all the gangs in prison at the very high category. It's all in there. I haven't shied away from any of it and I, I, it was incumbent upon me even cause it was to to to to get that out there with with no fancy thrills but straight to the emotional heart of it. And this is why this book is so gripping. And it's a true story. But what is so so beautiful and important about it's not that this stuff happened we all have challenges and yes very extreme life. But the metamorphosis, you know, translating as a human being from all of this extreme mental adversity, bad choices and all the rest of it. But then transforming, you know, transforming through redemption and education and, you know, epiphany and good works and achievement and hard work to being right at the other end of the scale. I mean, I have a wonderful life now, but I'm a very grounded person. So there really is special stuff in that book for certain people, if they're really looking for it. It's a real gift. I'm really, really privileged to be able to have put that out to the world because I am proud of that. That is one of the things I'm proud of knowing. I mean, I get so many messages anyway, but knowing the people in real, real distress that will find stuff in that book that really strengthens them and improves them, you know. I'm proud of you, mate, you know, I'm really pleased that we're friends. I'd say to anybody out there, and you can't tell people this. Folks have just got to learn in their own good time. It's just the way like, you know, it's that thing, isn't it? You can't tell someone not to make a mistake. They'll just ignore you and make it and then they'll go, Oh, right. I wish I could get across to our young people that spending six hours in a dark room playing this game on the telly. Right. You could read this man's book in that time. You're going to learn, right? The stuff you'll learn by reading Steve's book will mean you'll never have to go on Instagram again doing a selfie to try to, you know, to try to make sense of your life. I mean, in the hope that this will gain you some kind of interest and attention, I guess, is what we're saying. All of that stuff is, it's okay in moderation. Moderation, yeah. But if all you do is spend a whole life doing that, I would argue you're probably going to end up either very unhappy because all your, your head will be out of alignment with what you really need to be doing in this life to be happy and contented. Or you could end up with a serious mental health problem or you could end up at 60 years old with the most exciting thing in your life is walking a dog in the park. No, no disrespect to people that love it and that's a great. It's a very simple thing. It's a beautiful thing. But you could get to 60 and think, oh, sugar. What have, what have I done? I was just doing that all my life and I wasn't looking around and I wasn't reading books like this and I mean, I mean, Chris, you know, there are so many levels and layers to life. You know, and the very, the very suggestion of why we're here is one that we have a purpose. You only have to open your eyes and look at the intelligence of the design around you in nature or in anything else to know that we're not just here to do nonsense. It's just only an idiot would buy into that with the overcome by so much nonsense. So, you know, so much facts, so much facts, right, undeniable facts. So let's make it really simple. This is another thing that I learned at doing live is keep, keep it simple. Sometimes we need to go through the complexity to get to the simplicity but you need the answers like that. So, you know, and the best things are always simple. You see, as human beings, you know, we have a purpose and it is about that we grow, that we improve. It's like any living thing, a blade of grass, it wants to stretch out, be more, become more. Sometimes it will wait for the rain or the sun to come, but when the sun comes and the conditions are right and the seasons are set, it will stretch out to be strong, to become more. We are exactly the same. And this is where everyone wants something or they see something and that is exactly how it should be. But it's not in doing, it's in giving and it's in being more. If you want more, be more, give more. You want more, it's easy. Be more and give more. Giving more and being more is usually doing the uncomfortable things that you're not comfortable with. I'm always going places I haven't been before. I'm used to it now. This is why I achieve so much success because I've engineered myself to do that, knowing that is the right way to constantly pushing yourself, but not in ways, not in I'm strong in the arm and all that, even though that's good. You know, there are four strengths. I've always said it's really easy, spiritual, mental, emotional, physical. We need to develop them all. Where are you in these four pillars, these four tenants? This is what I say. When you work on that and you keep doing the next right thing and you keep giving, you will get somewhere good. I promise you, it's really as easy as that. And life, usually, especially with success, gives you things that you didn't even imagine that you would be doing. And this is where you will find your success because it's about unlocking us, isn't it, Chris? Yes, of course. When you find those things to do, you have to do them every day, even when you don't want to. You know, if to be prepared to do the things that I don't have mediocre people probably sounds a bit rude. I don't mean it to be, but people who live mediocre lives aren't prepared to do extraordinary things. By extraordinary, I don't mean, you know, going out and, I don't know, running the length of the country like I did. I mean, exploring the areas of society that people don't go to. They just believe what they see on the TV and they stick in that. It's so true what you're saying. Doing it is so important to get clarity on how all this stuff works. Doing an extraordinary thing could be, you might be a nine to five and have done that for the last 10 years. And one morning you say, actually, do you know next Tuesday? I'm not going to do that. I'm going to go out and I'm going to, you know, I'm going to bring food, soup, whatever. I'm going to go out onto the streets. I'm going to test myself. I'm going to go and talk to people whose lives maybe I've judged or I never understood before. And I'm going to go and see what actually happens behind the veil. And I'm going to shut my mouth and I'm going to be open as a human being to learn. And I'm going to give and I'm going to learn. And that is extraordinary, man. That's just as simple. That is absolutely extraordinary. You see when you keep, and it's something that if you haven't done it before is definitely extraordinary. Now, when you keep training yourself to do extraordinary things that are directed in the right way, this is an awesome way to exponentially grow your life, whether you can see it or not. You know that quiz, right? I'm with you, brother. 100. Absolutely. Yeah. That's not complicated, is it? That's not complicated. It's the other way, isn't it? It's simpler living a happy life. It's just simpler. Yeah. Especially where you've been, not having to look over your shoulder every day, wonder if the door's going to come smashing in, you're going to have your freedom taken away. It's, you can get so much more fun and happiness by doing legal stuff. I don't mean, I mean, morally right stuff. But let's talk about your journey then because I'm fascinated to know why did you embark on a career in crime and then we'll look at the other end. What was your epiphany? How did you come out of it? I come from a wonderful family in Ireland. They were very good people. Everyone knew them. They were bricklayers. They were very kind souls, you know, just wanted the best for everyone. I mean, unbelievably so. So this was our was brought up. So my first formative years, they say until you're about seven, the science says when you really form your personality, I had this. So it's very sheltered. I was a child who would be looking at the window at the other children wanted to play, but wasn't allowed out. But then when I was allowed out, I really went for a kind of run wild, right? So this was the start. And of course, you know, I see a young man get shot in front of me in a riot and, you know, shots were being traded between the paramilitaries, the army, all of this stuff. It was that stuff. He died in front of me. I was seven, you know, and he died calling for his mother. That was horrendous for me. That that was that just as a seven year old child who was sheltered was horrendous to me, you know, and I never forgot it, you know, and I didn't even, I didn't speak about that until in any detail until about seven years ago. I held that as well as many, many other things deep down inside me, right? So, you know, I carried this, but then my, my surrogate mother, who was everything to me, the son of the moon, she died of cancer. So the men of the family there thought, right, you know, he needs to go back to England and, you know, because of the trouble there, it was all that stuff. So they come back to England and I, you know, I ended up in foster care, you know, early on and a couple of places was okay and some was really, really bad. But I rebelled. I was a very anxious child. I was, you know, I spoke funny at that point. I was different. I stuck out and of course, even within my, the fusion of myself as a person, I had, you know, I was an addict. This, this rears its head really early on. So I had these problems in there. And they was, they was coming, they was rising to the top and they make you feel even more different. Right. Do you know what I'm saying? So I, my answer was because I stuck out and we want to belong and, and all this stuff as human beings and we want a family. We want to feel needed and secure and loved and all this stuff was I would get into trouble. You know, I'd get into trouble, you know, like the child at school who would play, play the fool to get attention. And I would do it, but I would cause trouble. I'd be the game or one, the one who do mad stuff, the one would be at the front, the one who everyone thought that's a loose cannon, but I kind of like that. It's kind of cool kind of thing. So, you know, I'm, and plus I was an angry child. So, you know, I started to get a real anger inside me. A real anger against the world. It really was. And that really started to come out. It was against authority. It was against everything really, Chris, you know, and I started to rebel at everything. Can we just explore that a bit? I'm not trying to like rake up the muck, but it's really important to understand why guys like you and me turn out the way we do. And then it also helps us to turn it around eventually, right? The learning aspect of it. I just wanted to say what, so what was the thing with your parents? Why weren't they in your life? My mother left me in Ireland because of many things of the time to come over and try and create a life for us in England. But I come over and I didn't know this woman. I did, you know, I was an alien. Everything was alien to me. You know, my aunt has just died. I was very anxious child, very angry child, and I couldn't settle. You know, I couldn't settle, right? You know, I just couldn't settle. So, you know, I ended up, you know, I ended up in foster care. This was the reason why. You know, many people tried interventions with me, Chris, but I wasn't getting it at that point. And I, you know, the truth is I was one of them children that if you try to ram not only stand my throat or try to hit me with a stick, it used to make me madder. And in them days, a lot of that was used to do what you told, right? That wasn't working with me. I mean, this is interesting because what I needed was the opposite end of the spectrum, which was a lot of love and a lot of care. But just the way that it was, it wasn't anyone's fault, but just the way that that dynamic was formed then. It, you know, it wasn't working. And me, I was, I was, I, I, of course I am in control of me, even as a child, you still be a child, but I, I chose my path. Yeah. It's funny. I don't know if it's hard if it's possible for someone who hasn't been there to understand this. I'm relating to quite a lot of what you, what you're saying I had a lot of disruption in my early life. What one way it manifested is, I was very introverted. You know, as a person, I'd be really extrovert. So I'll be the guy that would climb the highest tree to get the football down when, you know, I'll be the guy that, that if my mate lost his front door key, I'd climb up on a roof and get, get in a window and then get into my parents right. If, if anyone ever crossed me in a certain it had to be a certain way. Like if you call me a liar. Couldn't handle it. Yeah, I just would I, I, in that instant I'd get so fucking angry with you. And I just couldn't help but, but lash out and I try and hit you as hard as I could. And it was like my mate asked me for going on my bike once it was my 10th birthday. I got this second hand bike like you did and you didn't have new bikes back in the old days did you. But this second hand bike and my mate Andy was still my mate to this day lesson. I said, but don't go, don't go out the end of the street right that was my control Steve you know I had to, I had to control. I had this little bit of control in my life over this bike, and he was coming into that circle of control. He went straight down the street. He disappeared. I just stood there simmering simmering and as soon as he come back. I just knocked him out. It was awful. It's an all I still hate myself for it today. He lost his own dad right. So he had his world of shit. I have mine. You know, it's not. It's not normal behavior it borders on psychopathic possibly right. Yeah, I'm taking your stage. No, no you're all right all all this stuff is relevant and you know it is about push pushing and pulling it right you know for the answers and look, you know I was very very extreme. I mean I was extra and I carried this behavior all the way through where you know where in our security prisons later on I was the one who was nick for who was they were saying I was trying to get a gun into prison to shoot my way out of prison. I mean this is I mean how many people can you put on the short list for that. We're already in there for shooting at please anyway, I've been chased all around it's just crazy madness. I mean, you know this is not normal behavior right this is big this is, I mean, I call it excuse me I call it now away with the fairies. Because you may as well be. I mean, really if that is your best thinking at that point that you're missing a few masterpieces right you know you're a you know you're a few masterpieces short of a full gallery as they say, right. But there you go you see this is what I'm saying life is a funny thing. And for us as people so you know I carried this and one of the things I always remember with me was the anger the burning anger. And really it was anger everything. You know it was especially institutions because then I become, you know I got a care order and you know I was putting they was like. I mean, you know I was putting prisons Chris you know you know these children's own and homes, you know and there be loads of traumatized children in there now, looking back from all different walks of life and but there was a lot of physical abuse in there I used to try and, you know, stick up for some of them. I mean I was. smashed against a concrete, dragged, knocked out. They still locked me in the boiler room and all this stuff. It's in the book. So this really forges you into the way you look at the world. I mean, there's no other way. If this is your consistency, because one thing is that it's an absolute central element for what we will do with our behavior is what we put our consistency to. We're in a bad environment consistently doing consistently, having to deal with consistently bad things. This not only invites more of them things, but shapes our choices in that direction more as we're going forward. You have to break the cycle and you have to do it consistently, Chris. No, that's gonna help people, but it's the truth. It's as simple as that. So I went on and we used to run away all the time. We'd go back to London, come back and I was like a crime wave. I really was, I was a one-man crime wave, but I was already really traumatized. And there was a lot of stuff going on here. There was a lot of other kids who was like me because we were together in this, right? But then I got into petty crime. I was 14 when I went away first. Detention Centre. And that was the start of it. That forwards me more. And then I was in and out of portals. I was so bad, you know, I used to do a bit of boxing and different stuff. They used to kick me out of all these blazers because they couldn't control me. So I kept on with this, you know, with this behavior. You know, and then I was in the East End and of course I progressed really, really quickly from petty crime to the heavy crime, to the gun stuff, to the armed robberies, to the hijacking, to the organized crime. I mean, you know, I had my first gun and was randled that at 16. You know, I was in that environment, you know, with that stuff at, you know, at 16, you know. It's a different world, and it's like South London. You know, down here in the sticks, you've got a few white boys, you know. I've been a bit of one myself in my time. I was never armed, well, in the military, but... Yeah. But in London, it's just, it's like a thing, isn't it? You've got that geezer thing. You've got the right psychopathy, the sociology, the cycle, everything's there in that mix. The poverty, you have the poverty, you have the real fast phase of life. You have the, you know, you have many threats. You have depression. I mean, you're talking, you know, in East London and all that, where I grew up in concrete jungles. So people who are packed into with poverty, you know, and remember what I said about, we're all trying to be more. We're trying to, but, you know, your options are really cut there. And there is a really, you know, an energy in these places. In any city over the world, you'll see it the same. A real dense trapping kind of energy. And it's a funny dynamic, because when you get so integrated in that, it's like, you know, you don't know anything else kind of thing, and you're there and you're running with it. It's extremely hard to get out of it. So were you running with the sort of top boys then and all the faces as they're called, is that? Yeah, you know, I mean, I was around a lot of people who was a lot older than me. And of course there are levels and there are leagues and there are different age groups here. But yeah, I was certainly around, you know, my family and other people, you know, the most, the real current, very, very hardcore, serious organized crime elements. Even since I was young and growing up, you know, I was everywhere in London and we knew all the other faces and other gangs and who they was and what they weren't, you know, from other parts of London and, you know, and beyond and beyond, you know, throughout the country then and, you know, Liverpool, Manchester, you know, this is the way it happens. Another thing that forces this is when you're running out of prison all the time and you're meeting all these people and you're doing work with them or you're aligning with them or you're fighting with them even or whatever, it's like a university of crime. Yeah, opens up a whole parallel world, doesn't it? It's another world, yeah. Avenues to make money that don't involve having a job. Yes. And you meet people that they can do things for you. And yeah. Yes. Yeah, so I've been there at one stage in my life, not to the extent you have Steve, but it is in I opener, you know. Well, I would say again, look, I'll come in there, is look, another thing I would say is, money, for instance, is an energy. It really is, but it's only, you know, what you will find is so much money goes through your hands in that life. But really you pretty much, you know, you're very wealthy one day and then the next day you haven't got a bar. This is the life and it's crazy because the way that energy is and the way that life is and the way you have to be in that life, trying to hold onto stuff and structure, wealth or possessions and different stuff in many ways is impossible. It's not meant to be like that. It kicks back. Even if you are one of the real small, small percent that really becomes really, really wealthy and amasses loads of stuff, then you're a real target. And many of these people, they lose it anyway in the end or the ones that don't lose it, are really, they have to be fortified in their own places, surrounded with the paranoia and all them bad feelings of having to do more and all this stuff to keep what they've amassed. It's hard to launder that amount of money as well, isn't it? Without getting pinged. It's just, look, the simple answer is Chris and it's so obvious, you've got it, it's so simple that if you embark on a life like that at a certain level like that, it brings stuff with it and what it brings with it is a lot of bad stuff as well. So it's just the way it is. This is the life and you can't, you know, and this is another good thing because even me, I try to and I know people do the one for in one for out thing. It doesn't work. This is an all in thing. So you can't evade it. There's no getting around it. If you're all in like that, like we was, very family and all different stuff, that's what you are. But all the other stuff is going to be brought with it. And a lot of that is not good stuff. Very unhealthy stuff. If you survive it, if you survive it. It's odd, isn't it? I've got a very old friend, you know, lovely lad. People were welcome to dispute that but I'm just telling you, he's got a really good art. He's always looked after me, very generous, right? When he got into dealing the coat, it fed his ego so much that that became his personality and he, you know, having these ridiculously fancy cars and all this kind of stuff. And he got busted once and put away and it's always the same pattern. It's that, oh, I'm not never going back there. I'm gonna start from fresh and they do it for two months, three months. And the next thing, you know, they're back dealing again. Got banged away again. And it was like, oh, second time. Right, now I've really learned my lesson. Oh, Chris, I've been stupid, haven't I? I'm like, dude, you're smart. Go and study something. The money, the effort you've put in to breaking a law, if you've just done something legal, you've been minted now, right? What happened? Well, let's just say he's on the run in Asia at the minute to avoid his fourth sentence, right? And you see that line, you see, Chris, the thing about that line is it seems beguiling and attractive because of what the eye sees. Behind that is a different reality, right? But that life is based on shortcuts. The easy way out, the quick fix. I won it yesterday, right? Seems very attractive that, right? You know, we don't have to put no effort in and we just take what we want when we want. Of course it seems attractive to some people, but you have to remember this is why you're never gonna keep it. Life is structured it this way. This is why you're never gonna keep it. It's obvious it's not right to be destroying everything, right? Not yet to destroy everything. Although we can choose that, this duality. I mean, it's interesting for me fascinating because there are others out there. You know, there's some big names out there and there's so many. I'm doing a lot of work with a lot of people. I'm talking with a lot of massive, massive people out there where we're doing work on this and they're doing a lot in the States. I won't say anything yet, but and it's the same kind of experience. It's the same kind of thing. And what I've always said is, you know some of these people most are so talented they could do anything they want. They're so talented. If they could just work it out and flip it around the other way. And as you said, put the effort and diligence and cleverness and power and influence and energy into doing something else on the other side of the scale. There'd be no stopping them. I'm living proof of that, right? I mean, I'm living proof of that. Believe you me, I know it's a pun but if I can do it, then I'm sure other people have just as much a chance of doing it. Yeah. Steve, can we talk about some of the sort of jobs that you did because that you get a very kind of one-dimensional view of crime when you're not in it. It's just like, oh, those bad guys doing some bad shit and they go into a post office, they got a gun, they take and did it. But what I found is it gets so bloody clever and it gets so intricate that before you might start off robbing a car stereo six months a year down the line you're into some seriously complex stuff and you're having to lie and cheat and manipulate the narrative, cover your back, you're in a situation, you've got to pretend you're somebody you're not to certain, let's just say authorities to cover up for this thing you've done because if they find out about that then they're gonna find out about that and that's just covering your tracks. The crimes themselves get really, just, look, you're talking about, yeah, of course there's levels of this and it builds itself, like I said earlier, but look, I was a career criminal, a target criminal. There was major observation put on me and asked the people I associated with constantly the beyond us office all that. It was just much a technological war and I'm talking back in the late 80s, early 90s then I mean, we're so much more further forward now but even then there was so much going on and you're talking all the heavy stuff really there was protection rackets, hijacking lorries, arm robbery on different, wherever that was worth it or moved or good but would be a target, right? Counterfeiting all this different stuff you get involved in a lot of contraband moving things across borders and all this but anything where there's money in a pan now and you think you can get away with it and it's safe and it's worth your time. Really a simple that. There are lines obviously you don't get involved in certain really bad, bad things with other criminals they seem to do and all these ones in Europe, they're into all stuff, right? We had values in that way but we was very stuck to what we knew and what we done, right? But the bottom line in this is that when you live in that life it brings all the other stuff with it Chris, fallouts. I mean, you'd be falling out with people are very serious so the police would be the least of it. It was who catches who first and everyone would have firearms and all this this is where there'd be wars and fallouts and all this is a very, very serious, very serious. But so that's basically it. But I went on, I had three trials at the Old Bailey for firearms offenses, unrobbery offenses. I got 14 years on the last one I was found guilty. I served 11 years, nine months as a category A prisoner. I went to all the high security prisons and units all around the country. I went absolutely everywhere. I was released to category A prisoner and I'd come out, I was out 21 months. It was very hard for me. I couldn't, I couldn't, I was institutionalized. I was in a bad way and I got arrested again with a firearm. This was for protection because I was still involved in stuff but it was more about protection I hadn't learned. I got five years for that. I went away, done half of that and after that, that was the last time Chris. You know, I went to rehab, I went through the 12 steps. I'd done all of that stuff. What was your potion, mate? Everything. When people ask me what was your drug of choice, the truth is more, more. What's your drug of choice? More, right? It's as simple as that. In them days, I mean, anything I've ever done has been to a real extreme. I'm just that kind of guy. But it was mainly cocaine, the white stuff. I was, that was my drug of choice if you want to call it that, right? You know, I'm 12 years clean now and you know, I went on, I would have done, I was, that was the start of it and I was very proud of all the work that I'd done as a sponsor, you know, helping people there to get clean, save their lives. And I did, I'm very proud of that because we keep what we've got by passing the yarn, right? Do you know what I mean? And so I'd done that, I'd done a lot of charity stuff. I started public speaking as a motivational speaker. On the substance thing, do you drink, do you drink, knock everything on the edge? I wasn't, I wasn't, I mean, I'd drink like the best of them but I wasn't a real big drinker, to be honest. I was more, more drugs but I would drink, party, go out and all that stuff. It would be part of it. And what was your epiphany then? Because I'm fascinated about these things. Having had one myself, it took me for, I'd say about four nervous breakdowns to have an epiphany and then when that epiphany came, it all made sense. I've done so many interviews and everyone asks this question and I'm always truthful, there were many epiphanies. They're really well, I mean, I was in the block, it's all over the National Press and everywhere. When I was four years into that sentence in Whitemore and I was in a really bad place, I didn't see how I was gonna be able to complete that sentence. I didn't know what 10 years in front of me in that environment would look like, if I was even gonna last that at that point. And I had a real feeling at my most desperate moment, I had a real feeling of love and protection that come over me. And that was very, very profound. It wasn't a trick of the mind, Chris, it really wasn't. It was too staged, too opportune and too powerful, too powerful, too powerful. It let me know of an influence there, which is very interesting because I can remember being in the deepest, darkest cell up in Durham, for instance, right up in the North, right? With nothing, with the bar of soap in there, fighting with the officers, the screws every time the door was open, with the wind whistling outside, they're really freezing with a blanket, right? Really, and then, you know, some of my worst moments, mentally, emotionally, there'd be a voice come and say, you have to go through this. Now, I have to say, why would I have to go through this living out as big back to it? But it wouldn't, it would just say that succinctly, you have to go through this. Now, that's really profound, because when you go forward now and you look at my life, and there are many instances of this, Chris, so we look in hindsight, it's so much easier to join the dots and the provenance, right? You think, wow, how profound is that? Because I would, you know, if you ever said to me at that point, look, you know, in 20 years, you know, you're gonna be a globally best-selling author, you're gonna be a successful entrepreneur in many industries, you're gonna be a philanthropist, you know, you're gonna be doing all this stuff, you know, you're gonna be, you know, all over the media and they're gonna be making a film out of your life. You know, you're gonna even be doing work with ex-police commanders, going back into, I would have said, what drugs are you taking, man? Do you know what I'm saying? You see, life, more is revealed here, Chris. And this is what I think makes me frustrated about people now that I've learned my lessons. I mean, I'm always open to learn, even now. You know, because you're only truly wise when you know that you're not. Really, do you know what I mean? But I get frustrated, because some of the answers now are just so easy that so much more is revealed. I mean, I had someone the other day, one of my pet haters, when people say, I know, I say, what do you know? I say, I don't know. How do you know? What do you know? You might know that. If even that, you know nothing. Stop saying, I know. Turn that around and be open to learn and say, okay, I'm open to learn more. Show me. Let me get more knowledge. Let me get better. Let me improve. Let me have better ways to do things. I know it's a brick wall. It's a closed door. What do you know? Basically, we know nothing. By the time we might be good and know a bit about a little. But that's basically it in this lifetime, Chris. You agree? Yeah. When people say, I know it's an ego response. It's a protective mechanism to, in that they perceive they're being attacked. I get that. I know. And yeah, I get that. I get that. And when, yeah, no, I know you get it. And when you- But I want the best for people. I want the best for people because the central part of all the stuff we're talking about is we're all in a lot of pain with this and a lot of conflict and a lot of, and it really twists us up. And it's this stuff that gives us people immense problems. So it's like unraveling them little knots that are really fucking us over. It's great, isn't it? When someone has got to that point in their life where they realize their way ain't working no more. And they're receptive to guys like yourself, Steve. You know, they've realized they can't, their answers don't work and they're receptive. And it gets, it gets, it's a two-way thing for our friends at home listening, being enlightened. That doesn't mean your life's easy. It means your life's the same. We've all the same hardships. You just learn to view them as they are. Learn to view them from a more constructive perspective and a more realistic perspective. So the lows don't affect you as much and you can cope, you know, you can tame down the highs. And the reason I say that is I just give you one example and I hope people can get something from this, but when people you love, your friends, maybe people you've known 30 years and they come to you and their loved one's got cancer and you know as an enlightened person that understands we're perfect beings under mother nature or the universal God, whatever we want choose to call it. And that if you eat an alkaline diet, natural diet, physical, you physically cannot get sick, right? And if you do things like a water fast, then follow it up with an alkaline diet, you can reverse the toxicity in your system that is sustaining these illnesses like tumours and you can actually reverse it in the same way if your fish gets sick in the tank, you can clean the water and the fish rather than die, they'll start to get, you know, but better, right? I just want to put it out there to people, think how people like myself feel when we have to watch people die because they're so closed off to knowledge and they know it, they know it or they're just indoctrinated from the food companies, the medical companies, the big corporations, the evil in the world, their parents, you know, mythical thinking, the old, you know, put a bit of coal under the pillow and it'll cure you of, you know, cure you of this, that and the other, right? I just wanted to point out, think how it feels when you have to watch someone die when in your heart it doesn't have to be that way but you can't say anything and if you were to try the response you will get and I know because I've been there is, oh, I wanted you to feel sorry for me, Chris, you know? I didn't want to let you, you know, but you know what, Chris? Look, what you've just said there is so important about an alkaline body. It is so important, you know, really, you know, live food, live food, live food, that we was meant to take, this process stuff, I'm not saying I have a 10 out of 10 record, I don't, but for a long time now, my whole diet has changed and my life has changed even more again because of it and it is what we're eating with this alkaline food. Do you know what I'm saying? You need an alkaline diet, you know, and you will be so much more healthy. You will think better, you will sleep better, you will make better choices. All of this stuff is a fact. Now, you know, it's about our responses because this is a thing, because we have a free will, it's in the responses. We can be anything that we want to be, pick something, really, you'll have to do the work in the middle to get there, but there ain't nothing that's out of your reach. Believe me, there isn't. Maybe what you want your dream is not for you. Maybe you're here and another dream is yours, but it's still wonderful. It's still gonna be a wonderful dream, a wonderful journey and this was meant to be your journey and this is where we go into aligning with our purpose after we've aligned with ourselves. Having, living, and eating and doing stuff that we need to, like having an alkaline diet is all part of this and this is the thing, you know, people wanna put in 45% but expect 200% back. This is not the way this is, but guess what? Guess what the good news is? When you're up in the 90s and you put the consistencies into the 90s, it's gonna blow you away, your life's gonna change. You're gonna be in a different universe because you're gonna see so much. It's just the other side of it, right? So that, you know, it's very good to, you know, we can put this to people and I'm very happy too. I mean, I've got this here, look. Listen, you know, from me, from where I come from and all the stuff, all the challenges, all the adversity, being cast to drift, all the behavioral problems I had, all the issues, all the traumas, all the bad choices, everything that I had to deal with, one of the main things was, you know, I'm a piece of messener when it's, you know, it's here with this year, but when I got nominated for the Sunnack International Peace Prize last year, and you know that was such another elevation for me as a human being, I didn't expect it. Obviously they chased me for two days for this to nominate me. I mean, presidents of countries have won this award. There's only a thousand people in the world that can nominate you. You know, it was the secretary general of the Universal Peace Federation, NGO really closely aligned to the UN that nominated me, he's a very good friend of mine. This is a very pristine, this is the real thing, this. I just want, you know, people to know that. It's not one of these are the person down the road and we've won an award. This is the real stuff. But you know, when I got nominated for that, Chris, it just, it had so much emotions in me and I went through a series of emotions. I even had the saboteur appeared. You know that saboteur appeared because it suddenly realized, wow, you're really hitting it now, baby. So we come out and started kicking, trying to circumvent anything that is good. This is the stuff that lives in us, right? But of course, I'm in control of myself here and I know that these archetypes are in me and I deal with them, right? And then of course the tears cut all the back, you know, snappy, the tears come all of this stuff to settling again into where I am at. And you know, and I suddenly, I said to the people, I said to Daphne, this suddenly makes my life worth living. What it was, what it weren't, doesn't matter. But this actually makes my life worth living. And that is a very emotional moment for me, Chris. Yeah, it's great, isn't it, to have a reason to get out of bed in the morning, early in the morning. Well, it's making things better in the world truly and you know that it is and you know, you're aligned to your life purpose and you're at a point of wisdom to know that what you're doing absolutely is right, right? And it's about helping others in improving things. There is nothing better than this. And the universe, God, people, places and things, all of these things reward our human being when he's in that place, really, abundantly. And they keep a warning a human being who is doing this stuff. This is the best message that I can give to anyone to strive to arrive at their point to be that human being for them that does the stuff that they should be doing, Chris. Yes, there's never been a more important time, not during my life that it's been needed because let's not talk about the current situation because it gets us upset with YouTube, but let's just say I think what's coming out the television sets at a minute is just pure evil, all part of an age-old agenda. And it's not one that, you know, it's not one that loves the man in the street or the woman in the street. And it's important to be able to see through the lies. It's important to make a true connection with this incredible creation or I don't use that word biblically, I mean this amazing universe thing and get a genuine connection with the truth. It's your channel to the truth because that square thing in the room is your channel to toxic poisonous. It can be, it can be. It's like, you know, it really can be and it's the ultimate programming tool. It really is, you know, with the other forms of media but it's like anything, please. You know, these things can be used for so much good. It's like when people say to me, guns are bad, they kill people. I say, no, they're not. Guns don't, it's a bit of metal. People kill people. Or, you know, another famous one is, money's the root of all evil. No, it's not. Don't talk nonsense, that's rubbish. One man would get 10 million and cause a war. Another man would get 10 million, build loads of hospitals and schools and save loads of lives. It has nothing to do with money. It has to do with the energy, the agenda, the work and the consistently, the people and places and things behind it. That's what it's about. So you see, this is a game, this is this duality where we're at and for us as people, we certainly have to choose where we're at and what we give ourselves to, Chris. Very much. Steve, can I just ask you a couple of more sort of, historic stroke technical questions? Cause it's not often I, you know, I love my guests cause we're called bought the t-shirt because everyone I speak to has bought the t-shirt in some fascinating area in life. The first thing I wanted to ask you as a gangster is when you're in a military, you don't just get given a weapon, right? Well, you get given it, then you get given the ammunition separately. Then you have to go through all this training so that you can use it safely every single time. So every single time with the SA-80, safety catch, change lever, off magazine, check your top round, cock the weapon, look forward into the chamber, look back, look underneath, just you basically make sure there isn't a round stuck in there. So when you slam it forward and release the action, you don't shoot something or someone, right? Get drummed into you. And even then, you see people in theater, so when you're in combat, having a bloody negligent discharge. And if you have that in a military, you lose a month's salary. It's obviously, you know, you can do a lot more. Yeah, I see why. I really do. How come with a gangster, it's just like, there you go mate, there's your piece, oh, there's some rounds, look. What do you do? You just, I suppose, like any person, you just go and figure it out, do you? Pretty much so, it's a short answer, you know, but there's more to this in, you know, even if you're zero in the web, different stuff like that, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot, a lot to learn. But it's like driving a car, I suppose, in a way and you have to learn and you learn by doing. So you go away, but you know, it's, there's a problem with that. You know, it's very dangerous and you can make mistakes, but yeah, you know, you'd go out and, you know, this is why you would, for me, I used to get, you know, it was always important to get the right short, for instance, that felt right with a good weight and stuff like that. You know, I used to love the revolver to 48 Smith on Western, because it wouldn't jam, it'd be the main thing. You know, you know, the other, you know, I used to love that, you know, and, you know, get a good feel to it. And of course, you know, you're looking at the kick and all that on it, so you need to measure how that is for you. But it's pretty much as simple as that. And then, you know, it's by trial and error, right? But of course, when we, you know, when you go along, there's a lot of different weapons, you know, I mean, you'd have your soot sat side on an SAE, wouldn't you? But then you'd have, you know, you'd, you know, you get brown in eye powers, for instance, you know, and all different really, really high end guns, you know, where, you know, the lights on them, where, you know, you really couldn't miss. You're kind of, I mean, these are a different kind of, you know, MP5s, all kinds of stuff like that, you know, they're, you know, single shot, three round burst, fully auto, and they're small and, you know, and all, you know, there'd be a lot of these, you know, there'd be the shorts, and then there'd be the side by five, sides, you know, like the sawn offs, more like longs, and then of course, you know, you'd have your machine guns would come around and stuff like that. They would be the most dangerous, I think, on the street, for obvious reasons, because people are not trained, and you can release so much of that, and you know, a second, a second, a couple of seconds, do you know what I mean? If you don't know what you're doing, you think about the arcs of fire on something like that, if you don't know how to control the weapon and, you know, how to zero it and how you're aiming it and what you're doing, and you've got it on fully auto, this is crazy madness, right? So it's that kind of thing. Did you ever, were you ever in a position where a security guard tried to, well, let's say, do their job, or have a go? Yeah, but not much, to be honest with you. You know, they're like anyone else. They know someone who means business and someone who means a bit of business and maybe doesn't mean the whole nine yards, not really, to be honest. You get very first. There's one thing about, you know, gangsters in that way or on robbers, you'd want to call it that. When you get to a certain level of expertise, it's flawless, just like if you'd be training over and over and over again. It becomes like that, and there's a whole difference. You know that that's like, Chris, when people on the other end of that, they know there's a real difference that someone who's very flawless at it or someone who's very scrappy, and maybe they've got an opportunity there to whatever. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. The difference, right? Is it, what's the feeling like then when you get home or you get to your hideout and you got all that cash? I know it must be, it's going to feel different to you now, but when you're young and... Look, there's a lot of feelings of your old VR and all that. I mean, it's to be that kind of a really serious feeling at that level, doing them things, takes a certain kind of mindset, believe me. Used to be, you would understand it, certainly, Chris, but it's like being an actionist, like flicking on a light switch. Then we're fully committed. I mean, it's as simple as that. And it's about finishing. Do you know what I mean? So you're getting yourself in a position to execute this stuff. It's the same way of thinking, right? But what I would say about it is, look, again, it's just nonsense because if you think even the vans are different now, then you could get on the vans with the semantics. Now it's different, you can only take a box. I mean, I don't know, do you know? But this is how they transfer money still. So do you know, but say you go there, I don't know, you take a box, then it was 25 grand, they was insured to take across the pavement. Brinks amount was 50, 50,000, right? But do you know, if you think, if you get nicked or something even really bad, you're getting 10 years and up for that. 25,000 band is nothing in the scheme of things. If you think, and you're losing your liberty and your relationships and everything, if you get caught. So, you know, think about that for a minute. What, for 25, 50 grand, it's nothing. It's stupidity, really. But there you go, there you go. So when you were in these circles and when you spent time inside, did you meet any sort of famous faces? I was with them all, because I really was. I was a category A and all that, you know, I was a very high-risk prisoner. I was very monitored for, you know, for certain reasons, like I've said. So we'd all go around the same units and dispersal prisons. So I knew them all. I knew, you know, I knew them all. Did you ever come across Charlie Bronson? Yeah, I'm all over the press with Charlie. I was away with Charlie. Charlie's a good friend of mine. And, you know, I was away with Charlie in a few prisons and a few units. It's all over the press about me and Charlie, you know, all the national press. And we hope he gets that soon. Did you ever meet Buster? Who? Buster, Buster Edwards. You know what? I didn't meet him in prison, but he had a stall. He had a stall in Jaren Cross. And I met him there. I've seen him in Paddington Station. Got off the train with my dad once, and my dad went, that's Buster. He was selling his flowers. Selling flowers, yeah. Committed suicide, didn't he? Which, there's got to be some kind of, you know, I don't know, moral maybe isn't the right word. But terribly sad. For our youngsters listening, Buster was one of the great train robbers. So they pulled off this ridiculous heist where they almost accidentally robbed a million pounds. And this is back, what? It was a couple of million. This was back in the 60s. It was the biggest, most famous robbery to date then. Yeah, so the equivalent now would be, you know, 40, 50. Something like that, yeah. Million, and of course he had to high tail it to, it was Acapulco, wasn't it? And he was over there and he realised he was miserable. He had all the money in the world and he was in a place he didn't want to be. He wanted to be back in the East End with all his mates and his family and his wife. And I think he handed it. He got caught coming back into the country. Served his sentence and become a flower seller. And, yeah, tragically ended his own life. Absolutely. Look, you know, I mean, it's been so good, so good to talk to you, Chris. And look, you know, and the book is, it's gonna be a film. It's gonna be a film. We've got the screenplay, you know. I'm doing some work on that today with the producers as it happens. It's going very well. It's a big, a big budget movie, you know. We really, you know, it's wonderful. I'm a producer on it as well, Chris. It's a wonderful journey. It's not all what people would think, but you know, I'm so privileged to work with the wonderful people I do today. And I always put the kudos to them because it's the truth. And, you know, I'm exceptionally privileged. You know, I couldn't do anything without them. I value them very much. And it's wonderful to be around these really influential, we're really proven creative people. I'm very much the same. And to be involved in the wonderful stuff that we do, really, and this is very exciting for me. And, you know, there's so much involved in this film. And so we would hope, you know, with all the stuff that's happening in the world to start shooting this, you know, sometime towards the last quarter of next year, middle, middle to next year, all being well, Chris. Well, keep us all up to speed with it, Steve. It'd be great to have you on my live show and we can take some questions from the friends at home. Yeah. Just answer them one by one. Shall we? Bear in mind, we're in a very fragile time at the moment for people's mental health. I'm acutely aware of that. We've got a veteran's epidemic of suicide. We've got a lot of lost people when it comes to getting your head in order, right? And it's hard. To me and you, a lot of bloody-hearted experience, a lot of, you know, a lot of, like, unintentional mistakes, but so what can we say for people that are watching this, Steve? What, can you give any tips, like how do you start your day? What do you do to, if you face a challenge, how do you talk to yourself mentally? Anything like that. It's everything together again, Chris, and it is foraging yourself into that consistency of certainly we are the quality of our thoughts. And I always say the battle is definitely here and here. This is where the real battle is. Sorting that out can be an impossible task at points as human beings, but if you are in a place that's struggling and all that, use tricks. Use tricks to change it, to change how you feel. You know, just don't believe the hype. No matter, and do it early. When that stuff starts to set in or whatever, be aware of it. Don't let it take hold and there are many things. Go swimming, throw stones, have a chat. A great way is to help others. Do something for someone else. Then you project it onto them and that is a very great conduit of changing how you feel in the most influential way by helping others, doing something for others. Taking time in others' problems, helping them solve their problems is a great one. Giving, giving is a great one. Or, you know, there are many things we can do. It is about keep jump starting. Our mind, our emotions and stuff like that if we are prone and it's rattling us. And it keeps coming back to knocking the door. You have to fight it, fight it early. Know that it's about consistency. Don't let that stuff sit in, like a rock. But always be kind to yourself. People be so, they start to hit themselves with the bat then because of this. Oh my God, I feel like this. This is interesting because this is why we deal with it early because then the fuselain of negativity can come in, tell us how bad we are in all this crap and then this takes more of a stronger footing. So just be aware of the energies that have this works and what you eat, what you eat is another one. Eat, even if you think eat good live food, it will revitalize your body, your organs, how you feel, your energy levels, you're thinking in unbelievable ways. You put this stuff together and you have a shield against this stuff and always ask for help. This is another thing. We get very proud and we get very stuck at saying, help. It's an easy word, help. I'm in it, I'm suffering, I can't deal with it. I need a support. I need you to carry me on my shield for a bit, help. Yes. Because guess what? Guess what? Me today, you tomorrow. I'll be carrying you on your shield. There's no shame involved in this. That's what I suggest. One thing I've done, it's just who I am now. It's without question in every single scenario. And I've done this obviously now for 30, 20, 30 years, is I turn every negative into a positive. Yeah, I do. I turn it straight over, Chris. That's my thing. Straight away. Because I know it ain't right. And it's my choice at that point, where I want to go with that. If I want to feed that a rum of that, I'll turn it right over on its head. Take it as a lesson. A lesson to improve. But never believe the hype. We're not here to suffer. We're here to learn. Sometimes that learning is hard. It stings. Steve, you've been absolutely amazing. I'm honoured to make your acquaintance. I hope we can do a lot more work together in the future, because I know I speak on behalf of people at home. You've just spoke so openly from the heart, without ego. And, you know, you're an angel, mate, and you're doing mother nature's work. And that's... We need more people like you. Thank you. We do try. Look, and thank you. I'm very happy to come on another time. And I wish everyone blessings out there in these difficult times. Take care of yourself. Thanks, mate. Just stay on the line, Steve. So, thank you ever so much again to everybody at home. Big love to you all. Keep smiling. Remember, take action. Do something, right? And that just gets the ball rolling, right? If you can like and subscribe, that just helps us to get more great guests. If you can consider the Patreon, it's £1.99 a month, folks. If you want complimentary live coaching once a month, look at the Warrior level, £9.99. You're not going to get it cheaper than that. And I will just try and help you all I can. I'm out of here. Hello, friend. I hope this finds you well. My name's Chris Thrill. I'm a former Royal Marines commando. And I fought my way back from chronic trauma and addiction to live, work and travel in 80 countries across all seven continents, achieving all of my dreams and goals along the way. Now I pass my simple system onto other people, but I can only help you if you like and subscribe. So please do so because you get one life, and if you live it right, one is enough.