 Welcome, welcome everyone. It's a it's a wonderful pleasure and honor to have Gaetano Peche with us this evening to speak about his work and share his thoughts about art and architecture which he has uniquely engaged and hybridized through his varied extensive and highly influential and inspiring practice. There are many reasons why I wanted to invite Gaetano Peche to speak at the school at this time and I thought I would share some of them by way of introduction. The first is personal. I have always been a great admirer of Gaetano's work from growing up surrounded by some of his smaller pieces which my father collected to the time I went to see the retrospective exhibition of his work at the Centre Georges Pompidou in Paris and titled Gaetano Peche le temps de question in 1996. That exhibition is one that left an indelible mark on me as an architect. It was and remains one of the most interesting, beautiful and original exhibition I have seen to this day. In fact I loved everything about the work, the excess and freedom of it, the pleasure of making, the layering and materiality, the presence of meaning and the ability to communicate in the most intrinsic ways. As a student of architecture it seemed to me at the time that Peche's work had an openness and generosity towards everything. A humanistic generosity that transpired across scale from the smallest object to his master plan for a city modeled out of rubber. Through his work many of the false oppositions that most of us were taught to imitate and internalize came undone. Materiality could be generative of a building's concept, an object's form or the expression of a piece of furniture. Political concerns could not only be combined with but also reinforced by a strong aesthetic sensibility and vice versa. Disciplinary preoccupations were no longer necessarily abstracted from functionality and the lessons of the everyday. Architecture was not separate from an art practice but continues with it. Communication and meaning were not the death of art or architecture but intrinsic to their potential to touch and reach audiences across cultures and contexts. Today I would like to suggest that Gaetano's work strongly resonates again with a new generation of architects and students. In this post-digital era where assembling parts in new ways is primary, where environmental questions of material, life cycles and waste are becoming sources of design inspiration, where a desire to reclaim ways to communicate and connect again is in an age of overcommunication and overconnection of the utmost importance and where an eagerness to bring together political concerns with the practice of architecture runs through many students' projects, patient trajectory, independence and constantly evolving yet consistent and always fresh body of work stands as a unique model. Gaetano's refusal, refusal to be categorized as either an architect or an artist has also led the way for how to construct a practice today. His work cuts across scales but also ways of making, bringing together old practices with cutting-edge technologies as he continuously innovates across language, form and production modes. Today as we increasingly embrace architecture as an expanded and varied form of practice and a form of knowing the world, Pesh's work stands as an inspiration for what is possible. Gaetano is also an educator. He taught for 28 years at the Institut d'Architecture et d'études urbaines of Strasbourg lecturing extensively around the world. His work sits in the permanent collections of MoMA, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Victorian Albert Museum, the Centre Pompidou, the Vitra Design Museum, the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts and other museums in Japan, Portugal and Finland. Exhibition of his work has span three decades, from the legendary 1972 MoMA show Italy, the New Domestic Landscape, to the exhibit Gaetano Pesce Il Rimore del Tempo at the Triennale of Milan in 2005 and the most recent Il Tempo della Diversità at the Maxi in Rome. He has received too many awards to list and so please join me in welcoming Gaetano Pesce. I am very happy to meet you first and I am very happy because I received a present that a former dean of this school is here. He's a friend, he came, he was like a gift to me. Bernard Chewme, where are you Bernard? Ah, here, look. So I am in a very good company and I enjoy and I hope not to be very long. He's tried to do a lecture very fast. They told me that usually you have a question. I will be happy to answer if the questions are simple. I don't like when people make difficult to the story because that is not my style. Let's talk because we are in the School of Architecture. I can start with the observation that is most of the time we talk about architecture in reality. We are talking about something else. In English, there is a word for this something else, which is building. In French is batimon. In Italian is edilizia. In German, I have no idea. In Japanese, I have no idea, but I am for sure, I am sure that there is a word for something that is built, but is not architecture. Architecture is something that happened for the first time. He's a surprise. He's an innovation. He's an innovation in language. He's an innovation in ways to construct, to build new material, new concept. You know what? That architecture is happening, but it's very rare. So each time we talk about architecture here, architecture there, it's not true. We talk about something that we need. Building, we need them because we need offices, we need housing, we need churches, we need temples, we need workshops. And they are products, but they are not architecture. And so let's go to see, for instance, a kind of, is this architecture? No, this is something we need to make people living, apartment, etc. Is this architecture? I don't believe. Because we saw this a million times. There is nothing new here. And look, I am not criticized because I am a very optimistic person, but at the school, they told me, look, if there are students, maybe you are against that. But me, I tell you what I learned. A building has to do with the sun. So the window on the south side has to have a certain surface, but the window on the east has to be different. And the window on the west are different. And the north are different. So the north window are the largest one, largest. And the south, because there are a lot of windows, the south window are supposed to be smaller. So just in here, why the window are all the same? On the south side? So it's a banality. I wonder, who is there? He went to school, he went to school with good teachers. Because the teachers are very important. Teaching this kind of very simple thing. Look, can I tell you one thing that also is important? If I take this building, and I take this building, but I can take another million or other buildings, and I make an exchange with this image as an image of a society. But this is a very totalitarian image. A society that has no way to be different. Each floor is the same. It's a repetition, a repetition, a repetition. But you are going up, going up, something up to happen. Yes or no? Oh, yes or no? Yes. So, okay. Look. And here, look, we are in London seven years ago. It was in London giving a lecture at the Royal College of Art. I ask to the audience, what is the relation between the English identity and the suppository? Immediately it was silent, everybody was looking down, nobody answered. But in reality, the question is architecture is not a decoration. Architecture is something very serious. And usually architecture is a representation of the identity of the place. But not the identity in terms of material. It's the identity that is in the air. And a good architect is able to represent that. I am sure that in London there is a lot to express as identity, and not only a suppository. No? So, now slowly you see what I am looking at. So things like these are very banal. Repetition in life is a disaster. Because time is always different. Time is not something that repeats. And when we lose time, we lose it. And there is no way to have it back. So a repetition of a floor, a repetition of, but, ah, look, this is like a skyscraper we just saw. Or this. But here we are. This is a piece of architecture. Why? Because this is a hotel in a totalitarian country. And so we represent the identity of the place. And so is a piece of architecture. Very sad, horrible to see. But is the reality of North Korea? Look, you see what I am talking about, more or less. Let's go. Okay, now we talk about, because me, they told me one thing at the school. There is no barrier between the sector of art. One day you are curious about object. One day you are curious about architecture. One day you are curious about movies, et cetera, et cetera. So you are multidisciplinary. This is the way to be in our time where we have a very strong communication. We are constantly in front of something that is tell us what you are thinking is wrong. And now you have to think in a different way. You have to follow your time. And so now I lost what I was saying. But anyway, that's not important. Let's go. I see the multidisciplinary. It's very important to not to do always the same job. Because if you do always the same job, you are bored by the job. And the job starts to smell old. If you change from one field to another, et cetera, et cetera, then your ideas become more fresh. And this is what I try to, because it's a fight I do. I don't want to be bored. So this is almost 50 years ago. Now you know. We are a lot of women here. Look, the story is that you are victim of the prejudice of men. Since thousand and thousand years, you are not a minority. You are half of the population of the world who are suffering because men want to use you. And this is not correct. In some countries, you cannot go out alone. Is that acceptable in the 21st century? You cannot sit in a bar alone to drink. Who said that? So there is a problem. And me 50 years ago, I did this chair talking about that. A chair of a human body, a female body with a ball. A ball represents the symbol of the prisoner. And I did that hoping that this chair was valid. The meaning was valid only for a few years. Now it's 50 years. And maybe it's worse than 50 years ago. Lover that is unhappy with the fiancé, is a true acid in the face. The other cannot. I don't know. The other is killed, etc. It's horrible. No. So design is not only what they told us functional. No, design is an art that is so strong that is able to express practical things like comfort and commodity. But also meaning, meaning like political, meaning like religious, meaning like philosophical or personal. And then in that moment, design become an art. And is there art of maybe the 20th century or the art of the 21st century? Because it's like a sculpture at the end. Sculpture that is maybe better than Giacometti was making this. Can I tell you one thing? Now I risked to make a lecture a little longer. But this is a beautiful story. I was a friend with Peggy Guggenheim. And she was a lady living in Venice. And she had a museum of contemporary art. And then one winter, she invited me and my the mother of my children. And it was very cold in the night to have dinner in her house. The house was the museum during the day and the house during the night. So we go there. I mean, I had a very heavy coat. And there was a guy who opened the door. He said, Can I have your coat? He took my coat and tacky attached the coat to Giacometti. I said, Oh, boy, he's breaking. He's breaking Giacometti because the coat was very heavy. But in reality, it didn't break. But me, I understood one thing. Giacometti was a piece of art during the day. And he was an anger during the night. You see what I mean? Why we have to respect categories? Who said that? Nobody. So no, don't respect. Anyway, let's go. By the way, this was sold because this chair is done with the foam. Foam is air inside. So I made the chair on the vacuum and it was sold in this way, very open. And the chair was coming out. Okay, this is it. I go fast now. I saw talking about New York in the moment in the 80s when I thought New York was losing energy. And so me, I said, This is a sunset of this city and it's called the sunset in New York. Important is to use images. This we go back maybe during the discussion if we have. Why abstraction? What is this architecture done with circle, rectangular, square? It's boring. It's 200 years that we see architecture done with this kind of geometry. So use image. People can understand much better your work if you use the image. And you can express yourself in a better way. In a much richer way because the catalogue form or the figure is infinite. Much better than geometry that we know as well. Oh, this is a competition they invite me to do for a building very important, a Torino called Il Lingotto. This is a building from 1999 done by a simple engineer. He made a masterpiece. A factory of a car company. A factory where they had the first industrial production. And then when the car was ready, going up on the floor, it was ready to go on a track on the roof. At that time, this guy, 1999, he was made a track for a speed of 140 kilometers. At that time, the cars were going maybe 20 kilometers per hour. So just to see this engineer, how he was able to see far. I remind you that this building was visited by Le Corbusier, very young, like you. And there, I got the idea of the unité d'habitation, who made certain equipment like school, etc. They invited 11 architects. Because this factory finished, Fiat went to build in another place. And me, I was one of the 11. The other made a hotel, the other made a housing, supermarket. Me, I was thinking, but this building is the first industrial production, making car one after another with the pieces. So it's a monument. It's a monument of the work, the modern work. Thinking about that, I thought about Rome. Rome is a horrible city, beautiful city, but it's horrible in traffic, horrible because they're Roman, horrible for different reason. And horrible also because they have too much bureaucracy. A lot of ministries. So I suggest why not to redesign Italy from the point of view of the political equipment. And one of the ministry can go in here, the ministry of work. In Milan, the industry, ministry of industry, Venice, tourism, Florence culture, Nepal police, eventually, etc. Mafia in Palermo, maybe something else, secret service. So just to say that architecture is not something that makes decoration. Architecture is capable to suggest how to organize a country. When the president of this company called Agnelli present a different project, he said, I like one, but it's too early. And he was talking about this. It was fantastic to organize Italy in a modern way, instead of an old country. So just to talk about the power of design. You can do incredible things. If you have incredible clients. This was my project. It's okay. I don't talk about it. This is a very simple to make. That is in production. It's a use of felt. It's the old material. I use it in a very innovative way. It's in production in Italy. This is something I made in 1993 called Vertical Garden. It's an office building in Osaka where I, it's not that I invented. I started this idea of making vertical garden. The ground of the city is very expensive. We cannot make garden, but garden are necessary. So why not to make garden? We have the technology to do it. And so this was a picture at that time. Today they told me there is a vegetation much richer. Oh, this is a house in Brazil. Talking about figurative. This is done with resin, just to talk about new material. And it's in front of the ocean. And when you are around that house, you feel that there are certain figures. We recognize that there is something that figures that are talking. And it's powerful because then you understand that there is a present. There is something. There is no abstraction. Abstraction, you can say, oh, very nice. Then nothing else. With a figure, we can say more. We can receive also more. Okay. Look, you see, that is a rabbit. But maybe it's not a rabbit. Maybe it's something else. So the fantasy work, when you give the possibility to interpret. This is a symbol in New York. It's a very powerful symbol. A symbol that everybody knows. It became also a symbol of other places. And so when the two towers, unfortunately, went down because those idiots destroyed the two towers, I participated with this project. But imagine, a jury of 35 people, they understand nothing about architecture. So I was laughing, making people laughing. But this was my suggestion. To connect, rebuild the two towers first. Not answered with a dramatic project, to a disaster they made, but with something optimistic, a symbol of positive. And so a huge symbol of New York. Visible, 26 floors where you can have museum, memorial, tourist reception, everything. And then also visible from the city, because in the night you see this red positive symbol. Okay. This is a chandelier I made for a company called Swarovski. I show this because it's interesting. It's huge. It's for big spaces. And what is interesting here is that with remote control, you can move your chandelier. So it's very classic and then you move and it becomes like a creature that is swimming in the space. The light change, you can change the light. And also each changement, it was projecting down some smell, perfumes. So each movement was corresponding to a certain perfume. So an object that is talking to visual, talking because of tactile, and also because it talks to the smell. It's important. This is not only interesting to talk about visual. Visual is too busy. It's important to use also, to make work also for other senses. And this was, I enjoyed this. It was called Mediterranean, like a creature of the sea. Changing the light shape. This is a very simple house. I made for a couple south of Italy in Puglia. And there is a couple. And I thought to make a house divided by two because today to stay together with someone is boring. And I suggest a certain independence in the way that when they decide they like to see each other, they stay together. And this is interesting because it's a house done with foam. Foam is something that contain 80% of air. But in the meantime, it's a very strong material. It makes structure. And it's inexpensive. It's very insulating. There is very hot in summer, maybe not hot in winter, etc. So it's a house that has, I don't know, 2008. So 10 years. They told me that the foam doesn't need maintenance. But the material used traditional, they need maintenance because it's very close to the sea, the salt, etc. It's a very classified area. And so they accept this project because they said that the foam looked like a stone. And so finally they accept the, I don't know, the authorities accept this project and he's there and he's okay. It was $85,000. The house. Not a lot. The bathroom was done with mirrors. Mirrors is the material that we use in the bathroom to look at ourselves because it's a typical material for a bathroom. Another image, a sofa remembering winter. You can see it, but it's a sofa. It's good for Chalet in the mountain, you know, the hotel. A Brazilian company called Melissa asked to make a shoe in PVC. I made these shoes. They are very nice, I must say. When I saw people with these shoes, I remember once I was in a department store in London, I saw a young woman buying these shoes. But the instruction when you buy these shoes, they were saying, these shoes you can cut where you like in a way that you do your shoes. And I saw this young woman who asked scissors and she was cutting there and trying the shoes that she made. That was a great satisfaction. Anyway, you see? Look, you really personalize and you create yourself. Everybody has a creativity. Our education says not only the artist, they have a creativity. It's not true. Everybody has creativity. The question is to express it. And these shoes was done to invite people to express the idea of shoes, making sandals, making ballerina, making whatever they wanted. This is a series of table I made on water, table on water. They are six lakes, ocean, lagoon, river, lake, the paddle, and pond. I did that for an English gallery. And they are images, because here is the lagoon near Venice, where there is an area called Marguerre, a chemical area. Well, in the second time, when I was young, I was looking at the water, very polluted. And it was a commentary on water, the six tables. The only clean water I know is the ocean. But the rest is very polluted. And so this is a very, I don't know if you've been in Venice, there are those signs where the boats can go, etc., etc. And it's an image, it's an image of people. And then when you need the table without those things, you can take out and you have the flat table. The details. The ocean with the beach. It's a pond. With the island. When you don't need the island, you take it out. At the cabinet. Me, I had always this, in my house, a huge cabinet, very mysterious. Me, I was this big. The cabinet was horrible present, very mysterious, scary. And so I like to, I did for a collector, a cabinet, that when his clothes is smiling, when he opened the door, he's not happy. So it changed. It's a presence. It's a figure. And it's a figure who expressed something like I am happy or I am not happy. The chair, by the way, this chair, we present this chair in New York very soon, November 8th, in, no, 7, sorry, November 7th in a gallery called Salon 94 is not far from here. And you will see new things. What about time? Is it okay? Or is it too long? Is it okay? How many minutes? 15. So for this, we are making, like always, we make very funny, very nice invitation in resin. I asked my collaborators to prepare 30 of those invitations for you today to give it to you, but they were not ready. So if at the end you leave your others, we send you the invitation in resin and you will see it's very nice. Invitation is very nice. Okay, so the chair, as you see, the chair is different, etc., etc. This is one of the last objects I made. It's a table, low table, and the legs is very chaotic. It's our time. It's very chaotic. With the journalist, someone made the interview before here. Where is the Brazilian? Are you here? Is she left? She left. You are here. Very good. So this nice lady was interviewing me and talking about our time. It's very chaotic. Yes, it's very chaotic. But chaotic is energy. It's better than order. Order is horrible stuff. Horrible is chaotic. Order is also totalitarian. Everything in order. That is not good. So in a certain way, this little table, we represent with the leg what is our time, which is a kind of magma with no order. In the meantime, the legs are done with resin that is a little elastic. So the table is moving, giving security, like our time is insecure. But I was saying to this very nice lady, I was saying, yes, but maybe in 20 years, we will remember our time as a time of very nice. And then we will be in another moment that is chaotic and difficult because this is progress. But I prefer progress and not conservativism. That is horrible. This is a huge console, bigger like this table. The console goes against the wall. And it's called the Tired Man is the title. And it's because I believe, sorry for the man here. Look, it's what I think. I tell you what I think. I think that we, the men, we are tired because we did a lot in the past. We were good politicians, scientists, artists, but this is the past. If I look at men today, they create disaster everywhere. The prime minister years ago, prime minister in Tokyo, they discovered that he was robbing money. The other is killing a journalist. The other, you know, they are horrible. Why? Because they like only one thing, power. And this is very bad. So for that reason, I believe the man is tired. And the scene, the public scene have to be liberated, in my opinion, from the man. And the women come to the scene. Not only private space for women, but the public. And they will be the future directors of the world. And that will be a fantastic moment. This is what I believe. I think I finish. Thank you very much. I spoke about time at the beginning. I just finished a project that started in 1975. And it was at that time an idea of a mechanism, a clock, where only one arm and making the turn, this was making 80 years. A real time, not a repetition time. Because tomorrow, at this hour, is the same time. It's not true. It's a different time. And so finally, after 25, 30, 40 something years, I was able to make with a company in Italy a watch with the only one arm that it takes 90 years to go around the ideal time of a life. And so nobody will buy this because it's terrifying. No, but you see the company, some companies in Italy, they have this kind of curiosity. They do something that they maybe sell 10 pieces just for collectors. But it's a message that we must think about this. Losing time is more serious than losing money. So don't lose your time. Try to express yourself, your language, invent something different from the rest. And you will do something very good. Thank you. Thank you, Gaetano. I have to say that I haven't heard laughter like this in the auditorium for some time. And I mean it in a good way that I think that you mentioned optimism and I think it's very, we talk a lot here about this is a chaotic time where we have to learn to design with uncertainty. But when we think about designing with uncertainty, I think we're thinking about data and parameters and science and trying to predict and resist. And so you have this kind of very generous way of maybe embracing kind of our death with the humor and and this makes us more alive. And I think that the designs have this kind of real freshness. Thank you very much. So it's a different way to think about designing with uncertainty. And so I wanted to, I had one question though, because I think you mentioned great projects need great clients. And I was wondering in your life, in your practice how you met those great clients or if you met them or how did you know If I met them. I mean, how did you sort of, it's so rare, right, the great client? When I was maybe younger than your age, when I was 18, I had the idea that it was good for me to meet important people. And so I was traveling in different places. To meet, for instance, I met Le Corbusier and I knocked the office, read a several, I believe. And I said, for sure, there is a secretary opening. Who opened the door? Le Corbusier. I was scared. Then he understood because he was used to people visiting. And me, I went there with a lot of questions. I had a lot of questions to ask, but I was not able because he was asking me things. He was curious, why this guy from the school in Venice is coming to see, how is the teacher, how is this, what the... And then after half an hour, I understood it was time to go. And I didn't have the moment to ask anything. But I learned that curiosity is important. The first to express, maybe, yes, the answer. Then I went to see Alvarato. And there is a beautiful story with Alvarato because me, thinking about Le Corbusier, I arrived on the street of the office in Helsinki. And I was worried to meet who is going to... I go to see... And so I sit on the sidewalk. And I had with me some marmalade and some bread just to have a little bit of... The guy saw me, he was coming in the morning from the house. He was not far from the house. He was going to the office. He saw me and he understood, this is the visitor. And so he came to me and he gave me the end. Me, I had my end full of marmalade. And he said to me, let's go inside to wash our end. Nice. The most interesting was Eisenberg. Eisenberg was an atomic guy living in Vienna. The quantum, et cetera, is his material. And me, I was very interested to this kind of side of relativity, et cetera. So I went to see this guy and then asking what you think about our time. And the answer was, our time is the time where you go from Vienna to North Pole. And you have to have your mind with the idea that you can meet the Equator. Me, I was... The Equator? Between Vienna and Four North, there is no Equator. But then it was that, because everything is possible, no? And so it's also possible to meet the Equator, going from Vienna to North Pole. It was fantastic. So those people, they do a lot in their life because they discover. Everything exists. The question is to discover. And what is the energy that helps us in discovering is curiosity. If we are not curious, you know, when we were young and the mother of the teacher, teacher, teacher, teacher, there are teachers here. Some teachers, they don't know that they have to teach politics, philosophy, that kind of things. But anyway, what I was saying? I forgot. I was saying curiosity. Curiosity. When we were young and we were curious, someone was saying, don't be curious. I know, exactly. We must be curious. Yes? I know. It's strange, right? Why do we tell children? I remember someone saying, don't be curious. Do you think in your work or in general, do you feel like the questions for architecture have changed? I think today we do in general something that, as I said at the beginning, we are not supposed to call what we see around architecture is a urban decoration. But the step in architecture is to take care of this powerful information. And the information can push us to use figure representation. People can understand. Like an interior of a house, why not to make a silhouette or remind something? Because when you do something that reminds, people work with their brain imagination and it's good. So that is a choice that you have to do. Or repeat what your teachers tell you. Or you do something more interesting than investigating what you have inside. I am sure you have a question on this. Yes. We turn it to questions. Yes. No? Ah, yes. Thank you for coming to Colombia. Really appreciated your lecture. I echo Dean Andras' comment that laughter in this room is very nice change. I was really inspired by the quote that you said, everybody has creativity, but the question is if you express it or how you express it. So much of architecture discourse is about making decisions about how we express different ideas. But so often I find that the ideas that we have in our head become very difficult to translate into something that we can communicate to others. So I'm curious, because your practice is so multidisciplinary and touches so many different areas, how what's your first step in the process of translating something that an idea that's up here to something tangible that you can share? Look, it's very simple. When they asked me this office building in Oaxaca, I had the chance to have a good client. It was a Chinese who said, we give you whatever you want to do. Budget was more or less limited, but the rest wasn't. And immediately I thought about garden. Garden is useful in the city because we need the green. But I said I cannot, they give me a sure face for this building. I cannot suggest garden. So I made the building with a vertical garden. Very simple. It's a quick question to really think. The sofa is a sunset in New York. When they asked me to do a sofa, I said, I am in New York. I feel the energy is changing. It's not anymore the city, the strong that I know. And so I made the sofa about sunset of New York. Then the company said, no, you cannot. You cannot call sunset on New York. Nobody will buy this in New York. So it's better to call sunset in New York. I said, okay. But that was the beginning of that sofa. What you saw now? Or the house for a couple is easy to know, experience that you know. When you are with someone, one month, two months, three months, six months, you become crazy. So it's better to live in two different places. Very simple. Ideas. If you think, what I said to my students, make a justice palace in a city where the strong reality is dictatorship. There you are obliged to express yourself. And so you are obliged to think. But not think how to put the toilet and the bedroom and the living room. You have to think expressing the title. I am against totalitarian reality. I have to express that. And so you use a geometry who is violent. Look, if you look at Michelangelo when he designed some fortress, the wall, you see a geometry that is very violent. Another, Paolo Cello, when he made the representation of a fight, you see the weapon going in different directions, creating negative energy. So it's a question to, also it's a question to maybe to look to the history of art that can help us to understand. But not to do the old. You have to use that as a bomb. Next. Did I answer the question? Yes. Look, are you timid or shy? Hello. Thank you very much for the lecture. I think we all really enjoy it. And it's a pleasure to have you here at the school. Thank you. I was wondering if you could talk a bit about irony. I read, I was reading yesterday a text by Metahaben about the need of jokes in our political contemporary condition. And I was wondering your position in relation to that, the use of irony or humor in design and architecture. It's very important to provoke people to laugh first, because what happened around us, we don't laugh a lot. And so in our, with our work, we can help people to be optimistic, to be positive, to see to the future, enjoying the, loving the future. Future is a fantastic time where everything is possible. And so there are different ways to, you can, for certain reasons, you can project sadness, you can project joy, you can project whatever, a lot of things. Sex. And irony is very important. And in a project, you have not only a program of practical things. You have to put a program also of, if you want to say something joyful, if you want to say something optimistic, if you want to say something sexy, exciting, there are a lot of things that you can know. And if you look to Istoyovart, there is all this. Famous painter were asked to make fresco by a rich person who was old, and he was not able to be excited sexually in time where there was no movie or whatever, magazine. And so they were asking to a painter to make nude in the bedroom. You see, it's very simple. What is the correspondence of death today? Not the same thing, not the fresco, but you can do with that. Or the New York destruction they did, the disaster they did, because that changed the world in a negative way, the two towers, et cetera. You can do a project who is saying, don't worry, they did, they broke something, we can build something else. And we continue to do something optimistic and not breaking things. So when you make a project, on the table you have certain things. You have to start to have not only comfort, not only good use of material, not only good fabrication, not only work, but you have to put psychological motivation. You go home? No, it's not working. Thank you very much for this provocative lecture. You seem to be categorical about not liking abstraction or radical abstraction, but isn't some kind of abstract thinking absolutely necessary to create something new? Good question. Yes. Our function, if we are useful, we are useful to say there is a future. Otherwise, if there is no future, we can say bye-bye, we die. If there is no future, we have no hope. It's horrible. So I believe when we have no idea that there is a possibility of something else is very depressing. When I made this project for Fiat Company, there was a presentation of each architect. There was an architect from Italy that is a historian. I forgot his name. He's a boring guy. And he went to the, after me, he went to the, in front of the people. I said, I don't think it's always necessarily something new. Yeah, it was furious. I took the microphone and said, look, if the audience believe you, it's a disaster. But if they believe you in Torino, there will be always someone who don't believe you in the world. And that they go on. And we stay stopped. The idea of there is no new. There is no future. The positive mind, the optimistic mind believe that there is always something new is what I believe in anyway. We go. Thank you very much.