 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump, with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. So today's episode is a little unique episode for you guys today. This is us just hanging out at the beach. We got away for a couple of days where we create and decided just to record while we're sitting on here. So it's kind of a cool, I don't know. Fun conversation, super random, but just what we want to talk about. We talked about reminisce a little bit. We were talking, we were talking about some. We talked a lot about new media, the business. We talked about, God, what else are we talking about? We were trying to solve the world at one point in that conversation. We went off just in really, really good conversation. It was good though. It was, it was. So those people that are used to like the... We've done a couple of these episodes recently. We have some, yes, where we just go off. Part of what inspired us to just get on the mics today and do that is it's been a long time. I mean, this is how the structure works for Mind Pump. We have our quads, we have our interviews. We haven't had this opportunity to do random episodes. We used to when we first started. And so we started sprinkling them in and we're getting all this great feedback. So we're trying to see how people react because that was like a lot of what we did in the beginning. A lot of what we did. So it's fun. And this episode is going to be sponsored by Organifi. So that's the official sponsor. Now we didn't do any sort of a commercial inside of the episode because it literally was us just having a conversation right now on the beach and hanging out and we weren't thinking about sponsors. We were just recording what we're talking about. And you guys know, if you listen to us Organifi, we work with them. They make organic supplements, some of which we use quite a bit, like the turmeric, which I've talked about quite a few times, the green juice. Yeah, green juice. We like to take on our trips. Well, we always run it. We have it right now. We always go on our trips and it's a staple thing that we all pack. Always get the little travel packs for the green juice. And we do have a discount. We have a specific discount for Mind Pump listeners. And is it Organifi now or is it Organifi Shop? It's Organifi.com forward slash Mind Pump. And they get 20% off. Use the code Mind Pump. That's right. Our pretty mugs are on that now. Use the code Mind Pump. Oh, we have a landing page. Oh, we got a cool landing page now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They used it as a beard. I've got the big beard of that one. You had a very fatherly looking beard on that one. That was before. I was very paternal care of it. Yeah, because now you're like, you're making it at a point. It's more pointing and sharp. It's not as round. It's a little more round back then. So anyway, this episode is just us having a fun conversation. Give them back to you guys. Those of you guys that have been around for a long time, love listening to these types of conversations, you'll enjoy it. Those of you here that are purely for the exercise, science, and fitness you may not enjoy. Sorry, not sorry. Fast forward to the, or go to the QUA episodes that where we answer questions. That's right. We love you all, though. So here we go. What if we're not good? What if we just like doing this because we feed each other's egos, but we're not as good as they are? It's just like Adderall. I think there's a lot of truth to that. We're so awesome. Whoa, we're so good. Awesome, awesome. We're so awesome. High fives, high fives. The first step, I think of success, is first believing that you are right. I mean, if you don't, you're never gonna be that way. We got that one down, so. I think that's important. You gotta tell the audience this is different. We are definitely, we're out in, where we at? Pajaro Dunes. Pajaro Dunes. God, who's get the most fucked up feet? Let's put our feet out. It's me, dude. All of a sudden. You like starts a survey. Like, hey. No, we're all fucked up. I've got one special tone. Yeah, you have a, you have a genuinely. Special tone. Yeah, it's the kind of, it's like we're shorted. It's not, what's wrong with it? It's going different directions. Yeah. Did you break it or something? Mine's all uniformly fucked. Yeah. It's like, they're trying to grip for the earth. Ah! Yeah. Look how, yeah, you're in, there's some fallen soldiers in there, you know. It's like, sounds like they're desiccated arthritis. Mine. Yeah. Ha ha ha ha ha. I do have like, I have excessively long. Yeah, but you can do it long. Why is that one so long? You know what? It's just, I have one. It's just, I have one. Don't touch me. Did I say something right now? Don't ever touch another man's foot. No, no, no. Don't ever touch another man's foot with your foot. Yeah. That's the worst. That's like a double. No, worst is when hand to hand goes into an accident. Hand to hand is worse than foot to foot. That's like crossing streams. You don't ghostbusters or they fucking don't touch the streams. Oh, come on, you cross streams all the time when you're a kid. Yeah, remember that? Well, that's different. When you were real, real, real young, when you were little boys in that show of time. My kids do that. Do they remember the bus? Yes, of course. We pee off the back deck. Do we do all that stuff? Dude, you're leading the way. That's why. It's fun. This is totally normal, boys. Listen. You were going to pee off the deck last night. Yeah, I was going to get away. Last night, you were going to pee off the deck. You would literally pee into someone's yard. All these social constructs. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Taylor was like, let me be free. Yeah, I don't think that's appropriate. Dude, we're, we're, if you, you can pee off this deck. There's houses in front of us. Yeah, no, I got that much. Somebody could have walked by and now it'd have been a dick move. That would have been, that's just a dick move. You would have been on Megan's Law. I know, I know. There's like, like laws. For indecent exposure. Yeah, yeah. That's scary. Did I ever tell you guys that I had a trainer who worked for me that his, his dad was on Megan's Law? His dad was? Yes, I was there with you, bro. I won't, I won't say any names, right? That's fucked up. But I remember that I was like, what the fuck? At that time, I had just found out what Megan's Law was. Yeah. And someone was showing me like, oh yeah, I know you can just put, put in a zip code or an address and it'll show you all the offenders and the area. And I was tripping out on that. And then the immediate horror after that. Yeah. He's like, ah, like you research your own zip code. Well, it's kind of broad how you can get on there. Right. Well, that's what, this is what made this such an awkward situation for me is like, I see my trainer who I've been working for me for quite some time at that time. And I see his dad pop up. We never had that conversation. Yeah. Like you don't know why he was on there. Right. No. And actually, if you go on Megan's Law, it'll look good with that. And here's the thing, I know him so well that I've gone camping or done things with him and stuff like that. And I would never, ever suspect that. You'd never assume that. Right. So that's how it usually works. Now did it say, did it say on that? It's very vague the way they say it. It said it says like, no, I wish I remember the exact. But I knew, I remember then trying to trust me. I tried to troubleshoot this for like years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember like trying to like, what could it possibly, could it be this? It could be that? Right. What's most likely? I know his personality really well. What would he most likely, he could have got himself caught up. Because you can pee and like get, like you said, like you can get put up on there for some bullshit. Yeah, if you were to pee outside at like a public park. Yeah. If you peed in a public park and there were children present. You know, even if they weren't present. Even if they weren't? Even if they weren't. If it was like you're strolling by at 11 o'clock. I don't know any man who's never done that. Every man's done that. That's why it's, that's crazy. Because that's why somebody could, yeah. But then you ask yourself. You can also get put on there if you're, let's say you're a. You can also get on there if you rape kids. Yeah. Oh my God. Do you know what I'm saying? You absolutely, there's all, no, that's a good point. No, that's all in the same thing. That's why it's, that's why it's not fair. It's not, that's what I'm trying to get to. It was just, you just, you said that. I was like, whoa. That was like, oh, that's too much for my brain. Is it? It's, it's the truth though. Right? Yeah. No, it's, it's like he jumps so far. Me and Adam, I mean, me and Jester, I was like, cut the podcast. That was, cut the podcast. We're done. We're done. That's too much. No, but it's true, man. It's true. You know, you can get on there if, let's say there's a guy or a girl, cause this girl's can get on there too, right? Although not a lot of them are on there compared to guys. Yeah. I guess you can. We make up, let's be honest, you know, men make up a majority of the fucked up, you know, people in the world. Waiting in all the wrong games. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, cause we're disposable. We're, we're, that's why we evolved the way we did. We're disposable. But anyway, you can literally have a guy who's 19, who has a girlfriend who's let's say 17 and they have sex or whatever and her parents could, could go after him and say, oh, statutory rape. But even though they're almost, they're only like, you know, two years apart, he can get on that list. Well, technically you can do that one year apart, right? You could. Yeah. You could. There's some laws, I think in some states where they tried to remedy that by passing, like saying, okay, if they have to be this many years apart or whatever or whatever. But anyway, it's complicated. Yeah, that's fucked up. Yeah, but I never had that conversation though. Yeah. That's like one of those ones like I wanted to, but I didn't want to. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you just want to know how I've done things with him. No, you're right. No, I knew him pretty well too. He was curious. What kind of thing? What are these camping trips look like? I mean, I probably, me today would ask, I think me today would ask me back then was more like, I don't know if this is the, if it's, you would not have, yeah, I wanted to pursue that. Yeah, but that was in this person work for you. Yeah. Long time. Wow. And this dad, like I said, I did things with him. Like we, like, I should clarify that. Yeah, that sounds bad. Well, I'm trying not to be specific so people can't be, that's why we can start to like piece it together. Like you went on, like you did things like, yeah, family outings. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. He was close. I was very close to his, his family. Right. Which I was away with a lot of my trainers that worked with me for a long time. So that doesn't narrow it down to a trainer for anybody. Is there any, is there any element of the gym working in the gym? Is there any element of it that you miss? Of course. Oh yeah, a hundred percent. People, I mean, really just seeing those people, like, I mean, it was tough to leave that environment, right? Really? Yeah. The team atmosphere. It's the team and it, it kind of, I mean, will we have a team now? It was easy to fall into that though, you know, like what was established more. It's like, everything's like. Right, I'm talking about specifically to the gym. Yeah, you're right. Because we have a team now, you know. We're replicating that. Yeah, but what about the gym? Like, here's what I miss. I don't, I don't, I don't miss anything about it. Really? No, I really don't. I mean, there's like the, the part of the team, like we have it in a cooler way now. Like, like Justin was saying, we stepped, you came into an established, built structure. It was established. We're building and creating that, which I think that's what satisfies the craving of why we love doing it so much is because it requires a whole another level of skill. It's one thing to join a team. It's another thing to build the team. It's totally different. Totally different skill. But I do, but see, I also, I do miss some specifics about it. Like, because you got to keep in mind, I've been out of gyms for a long time because, because for 12 or 13, I was just going to say for 12 or 13. No, I'm sorry. For 13 years, I owned a wellness studio. I'm telling you guys, yeah, you know, that's what I miss. I miss the gym, that culture that's within because people don't realize this. Gyms are, they should. I don't know why they haven't made a sitcom that's based on a gym. You have. Yeah, but not well. Yeah, it's, it's definitely something that somebody could just like a bar without alcohol. Well, again, too, that's also us in our bubble. It's human beings. You know, anywhere humans beings gather. It's interesting. There's still a smaller percentage of people that have been in a gym that haven't. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, but I'm saying like that's it. We're still, we're still, it's not that big of a deal. No, but I'm saying what you personally, because you experienced that you were in it, like the gym required, it was a different level of energy you need to have because you walk in, there's always music song. Yeah, there's shit going on all the time. Even during dead time, there's still stuff going on. You kind of, you know, there's you're surrounded by lots of people. You almost, it's almost exhausting if you think about it. It's exciting, but it's also exhausting because it requires a different level of energy. Well, we all, we comment on this all the time. How often do we comment on this? We have written next door to us. Yes. We share a wall with a CrossFit gym and they play them. They blast the music that we all love. So we totally appreciate it. We've never said anything. And they're yelling at each other. What have we all said? We said like fuck, that would be so exhausting. That would be so exhausting every day. That would be so exhausting to make one of those words. I wouldn't, I know what it would take to make that run efficiently. Yeah. And I know what it would take for me to do that. And like, that doesn't sound like fun at all. When you were coaching at Orange Theory, because when you're doing that, you got to have to put out a lot of energy. I can only imagine you're putting out a lot of energy. It's like people. What was the most classes you would do in a day and were they exhausting? They must have been exhausting. 100%. 100%. But like, would you limit yourself from going back? Here's the deal with that though. So how do I say this without sounding really fucking arrogant? I'm trying to think of the only one that can do it all. Here's the truth. It's the truth. By the time I'm about to say something really cool about myself. No, no, no, no, no. Go ahead, dude. You do it. Just go. By the time that I experienced Orange Theory, I had already, you know, I've been a trainer for over 10 years by that time. Yeah, you were seasoned. I was very seasoned. And that's kind of a job. And not to knock any trainers. There's bad ass trainers that are there. But it's typically a job that most like beginner trainers would get into. It's a kind of structure for them. They don't really know human anatomy. That's their model, right? Right. It's designed to attract that. And so when I got in there, it didn't take the best of me. I've said this before, I think, on the podcast. It didn't take the best of me to really shine in that environment because I wasn't challenged. And so I could skate by and still. But there was moments, and I'm sure people have taken classes of me that have remembered this or that maybe for them, they're like, oh, man, that was really good, where I'm competitive with myself. And so absolutely at the beginning, I turned it on. You know what I'm saying? I put energy into it. It's also teaching. I made my playlist. I got thought about it. Teaching a group is so different from training one-on-one. Totally different. I personally don't enjoy it. I don't enjoy it nearly as much as I like training people one-on-one. But I think based off of what you told me about how you would teach your classes, it's similar to when I would do group training where rather than doing group training, I would just turn it into one-on-one training in a group. That's how I would approach it. You're teaching. You're really, truly teaching that. You know what I'm saying? You're making your rounds. I'm here to singling somebody out of the group. I'm not here to teach a class that you want. I get what you're trying to do. You're trying to create an environment for these people. So they keep coming back. You like to build community. So that's why it worked. I can appease the company and give them what they wanted. But what I was going to do was I was going to make sure that these people left with some sort of an impact. So I made sure I taught them. I gave them pieces of the knowledge that I've accumulated over my 15-year career of being a personal trainer and doing thousands of people one-on-one. And that added so much value. And that was rewarding. That was fun. I enjoyed doing that. But it definitely didn't stretch me. Like, this stretches me. What we do now stretches me to a whole other level. Because it's everything that I've ever experienced or done in the past. Oh, there's no limit, either. There really is no limit. There's no structure. I mean, there's structure, but there's no limiting structure. Like, you're not limited by the rules of another person. You're not limited by the walls of a facility. It's literally we could push and go and grow as fast or slow as we want to. And the thing that attracted, I think, attracted us the most to what we're doing into each other is that we're constantly pushing that limit. Always constantly pushing that limit. And so it just accelerates that process, accelerates. It's one of the reasons why I actually liked personal training so much was what I enjoyed, what I got out of it selfishly was the kind of clients that I would train. As I got, when I got really good, I could pick who I'd train, right? And these were people that I would learn from. I like teaching them things, too. And they definitely hired me to learn how to exercise and learn how to eat and all that stuff and have different food relationships and wellness and all those wonderful things. But I also selected them for something that I could learn from them. I can totally echo that. And that's why I decided to be even more selective. Like as I developed and went further in my career, I wanted to find people who are killers. But where do you find them? How do you fish for that type of a client? How do you even create something like that? I would argue it's challenging. I would argue it's the real rewarding piece of being a personal trainer that most people don't talk about. Most people act like it's about other people and serving them and getting them the results. But in true reality, the gym is in what you get from it. Well, even selfish. Even when you are helping other people lose weight, get in shape, change, whatever, what you get out of that, the reason why, if you truly do enjoy that, because a lot of people truly do, and truly get benefit from that, it's because that then spurs your own personal growth. You know what I'm saying? If you truly impact someone in a very positive way, it's a very humbling experience. And it also causes you to, I mean, you self-examine, you grow from it personally. But I mean, look, one of the reasons why my favorite people ever to train were people in advanced age or people who I considered very, very well-versed in a field that I really wanted to learn. So I ended up training, at the end of my career, my clients were either old or they were in medicine. Those were my two categories of clients. So I train lots of doctors, anesthesiologists. I trained a psychiatrist at one point. It explains why you're such an old man about things already too. Oh, I love it, man. You're such an old man. I gotta go to bed, spend a clock. I gotta make sure I get my work out in. Let's go, let's go. Come on, let's go right now. We gotta get it now. We don't get it now. I was like, oh, bro, this guy's an old man already. Definitely, definitely. But I mean, there's a lot you can learn from talking to someone who's been on earth just twice as long as you. Right. You know what I mean? Just meet someone who's been here two times as long as you are, as you have. Oh, dude, talking to somebody who's actually full of wisdom, like you broke down the difference. You know, what that means is it's, that leaves such more of an impact than, you know, just talking to smart people because it's like, because now you're connecting, you know, like they can apply that. Well, don't you think that's why podcasting is exploding right now? Yes. Because it gives us that ability to do that. It gives us ability to connect to like-minded individuals that you may see as they have a bit of knowledge that you don't possess or a little bit more in an area that you want and then you can consume that at whatever rate you want. That's right. And it's also, it's really, it's also one of the best ways of learning, I think, is conversation. And that's what a podcast does is it's conversation. And again, you know, one of the things I got out of Virginia. I think, I don't know if that's necessarily true, that podcasting is a conversation. Sometimes it's like, it's a- Well, what I mean by that is it's like, it's communicating. It's communicating in the oldest way that we communicate, which is through our voice, through our words. You know, you can obviously watch people and see how they move and all that stuff. So we get this a lot. And what do you think then? Because I watch a lot of these people that are now starting to get into the space. And you know, it's natural for you to kind of like, okay, I'm gonna watch what these people are doing and I'm going to copy that and do something similar. Do you think it's wiser for somebody to go after this more conversational type of a podcast or that they should put some hard work into a structure and be more of like an interview style? Well, so without, so that's an interesting question. I think- It depends on the person. Yeah, I know myself like, I for sure copy and learn from observing other people but I then assimilate it and it becomes a part of who I am. So like, I'll give you an example. I had a client a while ago, he was an anesthesiologist, Mike. He knows, he listens to the show. So shout out to Mike. He was this super intelligent dude but he had this charisma about him. That was just amazing. Like anytime he was around people, he could get away with saying anything to anybody and they would never get offended. That's how charismatic he was. And so I loved being around him. Yes, there's magnetism from that but that's not the main reason why I like to be around the guy. I like to be around him because I used to observe how he would do that and how he did that so effortlessly and try to kind of pick up on that and learn those skills myself. And I think if you're trying to be a podcaster, listen to your favorite podcast, I would say, and you start to assimilate and pick up on the things that speak to you or why they pull you in. And for some people, that's gonna be the more spontaneous conversation style podcast. For other people, it's maybe more informative. I'm not quite sure. I do think it's a blend. I think, I can only speak for us. I know we're very natural conversationalists. It's super easy for us to communicate and have good conversation. But I don't think that that means that we won't benefit from some of the structure. For sure. I think some of the structure will definitely benefit us. We were talking about this earlier about how we conduct our interviews. I think we get away with, we talked about this a lot. Like we get away with being able to just have a good conversation so much so that we don't... Well, it's another example of where your greatest strength is your greatest weakness. I think some of that structure will help us. Yeah, we've been leaning hard on that. And I think we all have recognized that. And there's other podcasts I've seen that have leaned heavy on the information and that's gonna carry them through the whole podcast and doing their research and pride in themselves on all that. As far as like, okay, I'm gonna at least outwork everybody. I'm gonna do all the research. I'm gonna know as much as I can know about this person. So I'm gonna have a good conversation as a result, which works. It's a formula that works. And really what it is is because I used to think about it like, oh, okay, I'm gonna research this guest so I can know what to ask. So I can know questions I'm gonna prepare. That's not accurate. I think what it is is, I'm gonna learn about this guest. Right, so I can have a good conversation. So I can have a good conversation. That's what it is. 100%. Yeah. That's exactly what it is. Yeah, so we can just sit down and have a good conversation. What's his name? It's excellent at that. Jordan. Yeah, yeah, Jordan. He's gotta be one of the best podcasters in that sense that I think I've ever heard. Well, I mean, he's been around for a very long time. He's put the work in. He interviews all over the spectrum. So he'll have an athlete, a politician, a religious person, a fitness, he can go anywhere. So, and the reason why he can go anywhere is because he's an intelligent guy already and then he learns all about this person and it's just natural, right? You, that's the conversational piece is something that I think you need to have. I think you, or you should have it. Now, does that mean you can put the work in to become great at it and teach yourself? I think Jordan talks about how he's an example of that but he wasn't a great, I don't think he was great at conversation by the way he taught himself. That's why when he built Artichoke with his partner's why it was such a big deal is because he learned steps to become that guy. He wasn't that guy naturally. I think it's important though for somebody that's getting possibly into podcasting that either one, you think about that or do you have that skill set naturally already? Or two, are you willing to do the work? Not sleep, work on this. It is interesting the kinds of people that podcasting tends to attract though. You know what I mean? You meet this growth-minded people. Growth-minded people were, you know, kind of weird. I hate, I mean, I'm not saying this is a negative answer. I think it's only weird right now because it's still... News early adopters. Yes, it's early adopters are always kind of weird because they're willing to, but it's growing. That's a good point. Yeah, that's the only reason why they're weird right now. That's why we love them. I've always loved them. Look, we talked about it when we watched the growth of the forum. We watched the type of people that were adding on to the page. You can just see that in general, like the type of audience that we're getting is different than what it was when we first started. And I think that's less of a testament to us and more of a testament to what's happening in this podcasting space in general. Podcasting, it's an interesting space. What was that article I read from Forbes? I think I sent it to you guys. It was something like sponsorship advertising and podcast. And I think it was 2012 with something like 200, something million dollars. They're projecting it to be in 2020 over half a billion dollars. That's a major growth of money that's going into podcasting. Because I think businesses and brands are starting to recognize it as a force. And that's only gonna attract more people to podcast. Yeah, we keep speculating all the time about how education is gonna change. It's changing. People are gonna realize one day, oh shit, I can just go on a podcast and learn everything I need to know on that one specific subject. But I think as a business, it's still a good, I think it's still a good time to get into pocket. It's definitely more competitive than it was when we started just three years ago. It's much more noisy today than it was three years ago. Oh, big time. I think it's really hard to come into a space without a either a unique angle or a skill set that somebody else has or a total different vision. I mean, and I remember when we all talked about this when we first started Mind Pump is, I remember, and I remember actually it was Doug. Doug was really hard on this about like, there needs to be like an overarching mission that we're trying to accomplish. That way we have something we're working towards and that's where people will get behind you on something versus just something that you're tuning in to listen to because, oh, I like it, I'm entertained by it or there's good information there. Yeah, there's a purpose and a mission behind it. Yeah, exactly. There's a mission behind it. There's a purpose behind it. It now allows for other people to get behind something more than just the podcast itself. Yeah, it's important, man. Right, that's the mission statement. Most businesses, they have to have, and they have to put it out there. So it's something that every, like, oh, I agree with that. And now you're attracting more people as a result of it. I feel like it's harder to fake podcasting than it is to fake any other medium. Well, almost, do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like you can- Oh, absolutely. I feel like you can fake YouTube. Oh, absolutely. We already see the people that are trying to creep into it that already, they dominated maybe YouTube or Instagram and then they try and fuck with podcasting and it's like, oh, now you're gonna have to go have a whole conversation with somebody. For like an hour. Yeah, it's totally different than staging a photo. Those first two minutes were great, by the way. Yeah, man, I just wanna give you a thumbs up. Yeah, yeah. Carry it for three hours. It's a much harder medium to fake, which is why I think if you're gonna enter into the space, you've gotta find that meaning or that purpose for yourself. And it's gotta be authentic because how the fuck are you gonna, how the hell are you gonna conduct one hour, 30 minute to 90 minute conversations weekly for years if it's not something that actually drives you. It's impossible. You can't fake it for that. I mean, it's not gonna work. That's why you have to find something that works for you. One of the, you know, here's a category of podcasts that I see just so many people jumping in because I don't, I feel like they just don't know what they wanna do. It's this whole like lifestyle optimizing your life and what does that mean? It's everything and we'll talk about everything and it's like, okay. Yeah, encompasses all of it. I feel like you just wanna like, okay, you think you're super cool and so you wanna have a podcast. You think people listen to you because you're super cool, but I don't know, I don't know. I don't know what I think about that. That's gonna be, that's a difficult, that's a really difficult category of podcasting. I think, yeah. Well, I don't understand. I'm pro it. I mean, I'm all for it. I mean, I love the space growing and I love more people trying and attempting it. Here's the thing that's cool about it too is that it's not a lot of risk to see, you know? But I think what we see right now is a lot of people trying to do it and then realizing like either, or they'll change their brand or direction or they start out as something that the subject matter wise and then it turns into, I think that like the missteps in it is not responding based off of your feedback. You know, like people a lot of times don't wanna be criticized and understand what the audience really wants from you or what they're picking up on the most from, the most value they're getting. And so they just keep wanting to do what they fucking wanna do, whereas that may work. I also think the opposite can be a problem too though, where you bend it every criticism and whim. Absolutely. Absolutely. There has to be something, I think something. And I think with now, I think that's more of an issue. That is. What Sal is saying. I think that's more of an issue today is that, oh, it was hard. You turn on it. Yeah. Like you try it for three years, for three years straight and then see how you feel and see where you're at with it. Most people don't have the ability to grind away. Well, you're not confident in your message. If you're confident in your message, it gives a fuck, you know? Yeah, yeah. Do it. Well, all of new media is just so fascinating to me. The direction it's going and how fast it's growing, it's very, very strange. It's a completely different, I mean, some of the old rules apply, but it's so different than in some ways, to old media, it's a very interesting, I mean, anybody can enter it, not everybody, anybody, but, compared to before, compared to before anybody could enter it. And Matt, you know how hard it was to get on the radio before? That was impossible. We would have never. It's so weird. I mean, do you even identify with radio DJs at all? No, nobody cares. Not at all? Nobody cares. No. I was looking at some pictures on Instagram of some old, like I used to listen to KSJO and all these radio stations, that was like, I would always pay attention to shows and Lamentinelli, all these things. And it's so weird now, because it just seems like, when you listen to that kind of dialogue, it's so... Well, many of them are all, many of them also hold podcasts. Now they've switched. Yeah, so most of your most popular DJs and stuff are radio DJs. I also have a podcast that they host, because if you've got, if you've got... They have translated that over. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they're just smart, right? If I'm a radio DJ right now and I have a job that I get paid $175,000 a year to be a radio DJ, I love doing it, but also the writing is on the wall that this shit's changing. But see, I feel like, yeah, I mean, so they just jumped over, but like podcasting itself is totally different than radio. No, they're not jumping over, they're doing it simultaneously. So they're trying out a whole message. A lot of them might have their own podcast. Yeah, they have their own thing. It's a different show. So let's say you're a DJ at, you know, whatever station and you're popular, but you see the writings on the wall, you're gonna start your own podcast. So you're testing the water with the pie, bro. You're just gonna have your... You're just gonna have your... While they're having the show. You'll run them at the same time. Bro, it's really smart. It's just another medium, right? Okay, so you're seeing athletes even starting to do this. So you have like a Draymond Green who has a podcast, right? Oh, really? Athletes really started to do this? Yeah, now imagine, you got two million followers plus or I don't even know where Draymond is right now, but he's got millions. He's on national TV all the time. So he's got already a huge platform to the top of the funnel. And then you bring the people that are like super hardcore fans and want to know everything about him. So I don't know what that distills down to, but that's a very hard, that's a rap, that's a crazy network of people that you now have and that you can build a business off of that. And you see all of them starting to, I remember my agent buddy when we... Interesting. My buddy, when? You said your agent buddy. Agent. Okay. Agent buddy. I'll tell you what, you said your agent buddy? Yeah. Yeah. You're just starting to say, I don't just say I'm the white people, you know? I'm just gonna put that out there. Hey, everybody. Making sure everybody knew that, yeah. I hang out with other people. My agent buddy over here. Good, good. No, but when we first started hanging out, this was like, God, it was a good five years ago, four or five years ago, or whenever it was when I first started to do Instagram and Facebook. Social media. Yeah, social media, right? Or use though, utilize them, right? It was around before that. Yeah, yeah. But I didn't utilize them. No, you were paying attention to it as a business. Yeah, yeah. So when I started to do that, that's when he introduced me to Marquette King from the Raiders, total name drop stuff right now, right? Not meaning to do that. Yeah, well, you don't really do that, but go for it. Yeah, well, we normally don't do that, right? So I feel okay about it. But he's introducing me to him because he wants me to show him what I'm starting to do and the importance of what I'm trying to do back then. And he's trying to convince these athletes that they need to be doing that right now. Because five, six years ago, you just weren't seeing that. I mean, they're sure there might've been a handful, a couple here. We're always looking at ways to help their client monetize. Well, the way his job is changing now, like that's more of what the agent's doing now is teaching them ways to, because what's his name did this really well? Who's the comedian? Part of the warrior yourself into a brand. Who's the, he was with them in Jumanji with Dwayne, the rock, what's his name? The comedian, the small dude. Well, this is part of why- He does it very well where he can- Kevin Hart, Kevin Hart is the best at that name. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You eliminate the middleman, you build up that audience. You don't need- Oh, his social media currency. Well, he holds separate completely. The warriors are an example of why they can build a team they are because everyone has a salary cap. You can only spend so much money. Well, how do we attract all that? Well, one of the ways is being in a big city with lots of opportunities. We're in the Silicon Valley. So like that's why New York, Miami, LA and like Silicon Valley are like desirable places for these athletes. They'll potentially take $20 million less on a contract because I'm in LA, Hollywood. I'm gonna get connected- Because you do business while you're here. Of course. So you know there's backdoor stuff that happens. You know there's backdoor stuff. It's like we asked Kevin Durant to come over here and say, hey, come work with it. But I'm also gonna introduce you to these three VCs that are starting up these, or that are connected to these companies. Interesting. You put a million of your dollars in that. Of course that's happening. Yes, 100 of them. Of course. What about Sir LeBron? Do you think he might go to LA then? That's why people think it's a very desirable place for him. I would think so. Yeah, and they can take less money because you can backdoor, do you think so? But the agent's job is- It's funny too, because you can feel the energy. You almost want that for the athletes too, dude. Because you gotta think long term, man. Like it's great to be the hero I'm all pro. I think it's awesome. It takes less power away from the NBA. I love that. Oh yeah, yes. And let's be, I mean, and athletes historically have been terrible with how they retire. They've been terrible with it. Like you hear about a lot of them going bankrupt and stuff like that and it's because they didn't manage it well or they didn't get themselves set up or whatever. So I'm all for that. We pick on athletes, but I would argue almost anybody that has gone from a certain amount of money to the amount of money that they make, right? So whatever that ratio is, like from an average income of less than six figures to all of a sudden making millions of dollars. I don't care if you're an athlete or not. I bet you you can look at that percentage of people that end up losing all of it. It's probably, that's why we, and we see that with the lottery. We see that in these things where people get a whole bunch of money out of nowhere. It's like, it's almost human nature to do that. It could be that it just came too fast. Yeah. You know, that could be part of it that it came too fast. The idea with this lightning rod, like, oh shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's funny, you were talking about LA and how that's such a place for those connections and stuff. You can feel that energy when you're there. And I don't mean it in a positive sense. I mean it in the sense that you can feel everybody's there to try. Everybody's there to try and get on your bandwagon. Yeah, to leverage each other. And what do you have for me? I've heard stories of like, there's a guru for a guru for a guru. There's this whole train of like, people that are following you around and shit. Guru train. The guru train. Sounds like a good point. It's almost like, it's like, Justin almost ramped up, watered that. Almost did. Brought it back. I feel like it seems pretentious at times. But then I'm also smart enough to know that it's such a big city that that could just be my experiences. Of course. That I've had. And I could have taken a whole different path of experiences within this giant city. But there's definitely. And say, oh my god. It's the most real, awesome experience in the city that they're saying absolutely you could. It's a totally different vibe from where we're at. That's for sure. Yeah. It's still big time. Northern California is a completely different. Did you see that they wanted to do it on the ballot? What was that? They were splitting it up. On the ballot, they actually got this on the ballot. So they got enough signatures to get this particular measure on the ballot. And it would divide California up into three Californias. Did you know this? Did you guys see this? Yeah, I saw it. So Northern California. I saw the graphs. There's going to be Northern California, Southern California, and New California. New California. What's New California? I got to look this up. Which one is New, yeah. I got to look this up because. I feel like Silicon Valley is it. Well, let's talk about this because they'd want to be New. Yeah, let me look at three Californias. I'm going to look this up. I feel like I could divide our state up if I had to. OK, OK, hold on. So I'm going to show you a picture of what they. I see what they were doing there. It's definitely Silicon Valley is by itself. Then you have all Southern and then kind of like Central Valley. And then the top was like Mendocino and San Francisco. Chico, Trinity, all the hills was like its own Shasta. Almost Oregon kind of. So here's the pictures of them. So that's Northern California. Let me see. Right there, which it looks like is like San Francisco, San Jose, the peninsula, whatever. This is the New California. It's like on the coast, but in the middle, which I think, Justin, you may actually be driving into the New California. So you work in the Northern California. I think you drive into. Oh, that's messed up. Bro, you could live in two different states or you can live and work in two different states. If this is like a toll, if this passes, bullshit, it probably fuck you as well. And then you got Southern California with zoning issues, which is like obviously San Diego, but then also kind of that central, like deeper part of California that's not near the coast. You know what I mean? But it's so different. It is true, though. We are very different. But why are they even bothering with this? Why? Because politicians, of course, think it's separate divide. I mean, look, there's definitely a different. Well, I think there's also- Why don't we just all do something awesome together? I also think there's people in California that do not feel like they're being represented by California politics. Like let's be real. Like California has been a very, very dominant liberal state for a long time, for decades. Well, you don't think of California as like a farm. You know, agriculture, yeah. There's parts of California that are very- Huge. Very different, very conservative, very right. And so they don't feel like they're being represented. You have parts of California that have way a lot of money, like way a lot of money. And then there's parts of California that they don't have that much money at all. Like I could drive from- It's very diverse. Oh, it's very diverse. So I can understand that. But that's what I like about it. Well, and well, no, what I was going to say is sometimes splitting up means that you're closer to your representatives and they'll reflect the people. That's why states exist to begin with. That's why there's different states anyway. Or not why they exist, but why, you know, what's kind of good about them is they can reflect the people a little bit closer or whatever. But I don't know, three to six- Is it an ideal way to do things in the first place? What? To have states? Oh, I think so. Why? I think it's brilliant that we have states. Absolutely brilliant. Well, they're representatives from each state that go in and then pass laws on our behalf. So I really appreciate that for sure. And it also- It allows you to- Listen, if there were no states, California, New York, and Texas would run the country. There's so many people and so much money in those states that all the other states- That's a really good point. They wouldn't matter. That's a very good point in itself right there. That's a very good point. Yeah, like people in New Mexico, Mississippi, fucking- They wouldn't matter. They wouldn't have a voice. No, they wouldn't have a voice because- Like, look at California by its- I think California alone, if I'm not mistaken, is like, isn't it the sixth largest economy in the world? If California was a country, it would be the sixth biggest country in terms of economic output in the world. Is that true? Yeah, I believe so. Doug's nodding, yeah. So that means it is. I think it's actually the fifth. Fifth? Really? The top 10, let's see. I think it starts with, well, let me do a little more research here. You know what it is. We have shitty internet here. Yeah. I was gonna say I'd help you guys out, but I've been phoneless. Oh, yeah. Okay, here it is. This was on May 4th. California has surpassed the United Kingdom to become the world's fifth largest economy. That's right. The UK actually had an economy bigger than California by itself until recently. USA. California makes- California. It's the tech industry. Well, we had Hollywood, we had production, we had media, and then fuck man, tech is just, I mean, that's insane. Well, that's why. That's an insane amount of money. That's why I think the tech giants are here. Yes. That's why I think we'll end up- Not all of them, but a lot of them. Like Amazon's up and watching. I think we'll surpass L.A. What? As wealth and money and all that. We already have. By a long show. Oh, you mean Silicon Valley? Oh, yeah, we for sure have. We're the richest by, was it sent? I think so, terrible. We are. I know, it's us. We're not even- I'm not firing none of that. That's tribalism right there, right? Fuck you, man. We can- Put on the jersey. Man, that's neat. Hey, man. So stupid. There's definitely some- How funny is that? I wore a black shirt on the neck. I'm like Steve Jobs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, how funny is that? When we do it with sports too, they can remember someone called me out on the forum because I was going back and forth about something to do with the Warriors, you know, and when I talk about the Warriors, they talk about us, we, we did. Exactly. The reason why we did this- We didn't do shit. No, you know what pisses me off is- Yeah, they didn't call me. What we fucking dunked on so hard. What pisses me off is when people are proud of shit that they have no- Yeah, I can laugh at it. Okay, like my heritage is the tie-in. I get all that. But to say I'm proud of being a tie-in, like I didn't do anything. I just- I didn't do anything. I was born into this. Yeah, what are you gonna do? I'm proud of just, you know, chance. Just proud. Yeah. I'm proud of the chance that happened. I had no choice. You know. Hey, how was it? How was it without your phone, Justin? Oh, it's an interesting experience, man. Dude, the funniest fucking thing ever, right? So we're sitting on the couch and we're having conversation. We're doing work. And then we took a break and we're all on our phones. And then look over at Justin's reading a magazine. I can't, I can't read a magazine. Like I can't tell you the last time I read a magazine. I was tripping out on that. And it was bad to be fair. It's the bullshit. Yeah, it's the bullshit. I needed some kind of entertainment, something to look at. Bro, your shit time has been cut down by 80%. I didn't even want to spend time in there. It's so boring. Yeah. Yesterday he was like, I wait until like the last minute, you know? And you're like, okay, it's gonna be... Okay, and I go... You know, there's no like, I don't want to spend any time there. No, because there's nothing to do. Nothing. There's nothing to do. This is weird. It's weird being bored again, dude. Are you reading the shampoo bottle in the bathroom like we did back in the day when we were kids? You're only on, has it been a full 24 hours? How many hours? Has it been? Because yesterday, since we dropped off the car, yeah, so it's been about 24 hours. It was, we're on our way up here. We're driving. We're already like 45 minutes into our drive. And then Justin's like, fuck dude. Because I left my phone. I left my phone in my car. Like, and I went through like different phases, you know, like I was like panic, like searching everywhere for it. And then I was just like, immediately I was like, well, what's the worst? You know, it's in my truck, but you know, like people can get a hold of me through sound at them or whatever. I'm gonna have to be that annoying guy that borrows the phone. You know, I'm gonna go through that part of it. And then I'm like, oh my God, I'm not posting on Instagram. I have no stories coming up, you know? This is all content. We're here for content. Like, oh fuck, you know, I miss me out. Like you guys are making memes without me. You know, I'm just like dying inside. You know, that's what bothered him more than that. That's the moment. That's like one of his funnest that was. I was so pissed. I was like, I wanna have so much fun with that. He was so mad. He was like disappointed in him. I would have been so much better at this. I was like, you guys, please. Bro, those memes are so money. I gotta look at them again. Those are the most money memes of all time. Yeah. Well, and they nailed yours. See, just Adams was great. He did nail mine. Yeah. You're okay. What was on it? I don't know what the plunger though. That's hilarious. So Justin's had Han Solo, a flannel, a big block of cheese, and a plunger. That's so. A plunger. And it says on there, the Justin. Essentials. The Justin Andrews starter pack. So this all started because one of our listeners, who was it that did this for us? We gotta give him a shout out. Juan. Juan. He also did that Mad Mike pick first. He did a Sal one first. And what was on mine? I forgot what mine was. Sardines, wife, Peter, Sambas. And then the third rail. The third rail. And then Adams is accurate. Rogues, but wipes, a whole bunch of shoes and weed. It took like three to get to that. That's perfect. There were three iterations before that one came out. Well, the first two were too nice to me. Yeah. Ice cream and red velvet cake. You made everybody scared of you in that form. Because, bro, everybody's scared to fucking joke with you. You're too caged through with the three. You're not sure you can take it. It worked. Yeah, dude. Dude, on the forum today, they were talking about that time you went out there and hammered that. Oh, god. Bring that. A lot of people don't know about that for sure. A lot of people don't know that that happened, but that was hilarious. Sometimes Adam feels the need to lay the hammer down. It's the one time you went off. I was like right in the middle of him. You know what, though? I tell you. This is going to happen. I don't want. I don't think we'd have to do it today. But at the time when I did that, and it was funny because I did do it before Sal got to work. Yeah, because we got to tell the listeners who don't know what's going on. One of our forum members actually went on. We were going to have a guest. It was Lane Norton. Oh, it was Lane. Yeah, it was Lane. And it was the first time we were going to meet with him. And we disagreed on a few things, but we were. Well, here's that there was exchanges online. Here's why it pissed me off so much. Because that was early on when Lane and I were starting to become friends. Like I was just starting to communicate with him back in Fortech. I wouldn't consider us where we're at now, right? Where I think we've been hanging out. Well, now we're actually boys. Yeah, now we're cool. At that time was right when the relationship was kind of building. And you know me. I've never not said to Lane how I feel about Lane or any thoughts I have on anything he has to say. And I would never hide that. And so it's came out on the show before where I disagree with something that he's doing or I talk about him some way. Then I talk about him when he's here. And this kid had felt the need to go and try and talk shit and start a fight. Yeah, he was messaging Lane saying stuff like, oh, they're going to ambush you. Or they just want you on the show to have a run. Exactly, he was scheduled. And at this time, I think we were actually paying for his flight from Florida. He was given cold feet. So we're flying Lane in. We've already bought a flight for him to come in. And he's come in and stay. And so he's coming in to see us. This is the very first time we're going to hang out. And this kid's over there trying to sabotage it, thinking that. And I'm like, you fucking dumb shit. We're about to provide a great interview for you right now. So here's the funny thing. I was so angry. So cock-blocking this. So the funny thing is, and this kid was in our forum. And so Adam and Justin are at work early. And you're pissed off and you're like, I'm going to get on the forum. I'm fucking hammer on this kid right now. And you wanted to do it. I was like, wait till I get there. Like, no. Yeah, you wanted to do it before I got there. Because you do it. So I'm in my car and I'm watching the live video of you ripping into someone in the forum. And I'm looking at this video, driving. And I'm like, stop. Stop. Don't do it. Stop. And I'm driving there too late. And Justin was so angry. Justin was like, oh my god. Well, we even got into it afterwards. And you're like, yeah, because you were like, you shouldn't have done that. I'm like, fuck yeah, we should have done that. Staying. Staying. Because here's the thing. What I really was, I was concerned that I didn't want this culture to be OK. You could do that. And we have guests that we have on our show. You're going to go talk shit and call us. That was a boundary that was crossed. And you need to be addressed. And you're in our private forum. I can't control the whole world. Well, we consider people. I can control someone who's in our private forum, who's close to us, and I've helped you out, and I've done things for you. I can at least ask for that respect. There's definitely people that needed to be checked. Yeah. And the forum is like our, it's like our, it's the closest thing to us, I would say. It's like our family. I believe the kid got into the forum for free. It was something that we allowed into someone who got free access to that, too, on top of that. Other people pay to be in there. And you're doing that. You could be potentially ruining it for everybody else. Relationship. Yeah, that's not, not cool. That was the point. Not cool, bro. Hilarious though. And this is my sandbox, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, get the fuck out of my sandbox. That was shit to my lawn. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, exactly. It was one of those, you know? But I felt like, I felt like it was received OK, right? Don't you feel like I don't think so? You know, there's, you know, there's three of us. So if one of us goes off, it's OK. Because there's always the other ones to kind of pull things back in. Right. You know what I mean? If we all did that. I knew I was going to play out. That's why I wasn't worried. Oh, it'd be ugly if all three of us did that. If all three of us, yeah. Absolutely. And we all have our own triggers, our own point. And that triggers, I should say, we all have our limits. And they're all a little bit different. Like, there's certain things that are going to push us over the limit. You know, and I think that's the important thing to say here, is that like there's, and I think that's what it means to stand for something. And relationships, communication, radical honesty, all these things are very important values for me. Yep, yep, yep, yep. And you, you're jeopardizing that. Or you're fucking with my values and my integrity. And my business. My character and my business. Many things you're fucking with. Well, I think the biggest. And I stand for that. I'm going to say something. I think the biggest problem. It's my character. Unintentionally or intentionally. Well, I have to recognize that and like put it into it. Here was the biggest problem. The biggest problem wasn't that, you know, he's going on there saying, dude, go and mind pump. And mind pumps this, that, that's not the problem. It's that he's mischaracterizing us so badly. Because there is nothing that we've, like, if we say something on a show, we know it's a fucking public show. It's not worth trying to hide anything. I've said that on a show. I have said many times I disagree with certain people's stances, who I also consider friends, and who I will say to their, it is saying it to their face. It's on a public podcast. So by you messaging Lane and saying, ooh, do you can ambush it. Like, I said it on the fucking podcast. We disagree on artificial sweeteners, for example. We think IIFYM can turn into a fucking eating disorder. Like, we've said all this, and I say, you know. Lock the door, Adam. Yeah, I also recognize too, the part on me, right. It obviously, it was a perfect storm for that kid. Because of the timing that it happened, was where, where I was in, he doesn't know where I was. I think you said on the video, you poked a bear. Don't poke the bear. I was like, oh my God. There was a part in that video where you were going up. By the way, it's been, we took it off the forum. Sorry. Only the OGs saw that. We're not gonna repeat that one. Yeah, there was, Justin, my favorite part of that video was watching Justin. Because there was that one part where you got unhinged, and you could see Justin's like, oh fuck. Like, oh. What do I do now? Here we go. I gotta pull it back in. And you did, you tried to pull it back in. Try to pull it back in. Hey guys, what we're trying to say is what Adam, what Adam was trying to do here, we just want to recognize that we were wronged and that we didn't appreciate that. Yep, yep, yep. It's like when you had a staff, you know. You had to go off on them every once in a while. You know, that was it. What is that about us? It's human beings, dude. What do you think that is? What do you mean? Do you think that's because it's human nature to want like to almost like conquer and submit and like that alpha like instinct? No, I think you have to show that you're someone not to be contended with. You're somebody that is, you know, you can't just be a jellyfish, you know what I mean? And that's okay to show that. You have to show that. You have to show that you're like, look, I'm going to stand up for myself. I'm going to say what I believe. Know that I will defend myself and be assertive. But also know that I'm a kind and pathetic person. It's just like a golden retriever shown as fangs. Well, again, I think it's different for every person and it goes based off of your values and what you see. And that you just, that happened to be someone who touched on something, you know, that we haven't had a lot of issues where somebody is, you know, attacked or did something that could potentially harm the business or harm my character, you know, with a relationship. Or just mischaracterized it. Yeah, with a relationship that I value. Like I could give two shits about someone I don't value. Go talk shit, do that, so whatever that. But I value this relationship and you're trying to sabotage it, you know, by causing shit that's not, I'm not okay with it. That's slimy. Right, right. And at the same time, too, be in my private forum and be considered part of our network. Yeah, this isn't fucking Jerry Springer. Like, yeah, like it's a different show. That might have worked for that environment. I wonder how many people don't even know who that is now. Damn it, what? Every time, if you don't know what that is, keep checking me on, go on YouTube and look up old Jerry Springer. Doesn't he still have, doesn't it still repeat on TV? He was like a mayor somewhere. Doesn't he still repeat on TV? What a terrible, you know what, you know what it makes me so sick about shows like that? It's not the show, it's the fact that there were enough people interested in watching that, that it was a show. Yeah. It's a reflection. It's the lowest common denominator. It's just, it's a reflection. Everybody just has this primal instinct to want to see shit happen. Yeah, because at one, at some point, because you know Jerry Springer's show up when it first started was a talk show, and then it turned into like- How did it get so ridiculous? Because it got ratings. Oh yeah. It was like giving the people what they want. That's like the ultimate example right there. Well we see conflict, right? The social media people. Don't we always see conflict? You know what, he's so right. People blame social media and say it's so stupid. Bullshit, before social media, we had Mori Povich and Jerry Springer. We had tabloids. New media is, it's still- It's changed. It's still reflecting. It has nothing to change. It's still reflecting people. People still interested in this shit. And what you find that's disgusting in media, what you find so repulsive about media, the reason why you find it so repulsive, and so ugh, it's because it's within us. It is. It's a reflection of society, that's all. It's a different part of us. Yeah, like we don't like to recognize it, you're attracted to it still. Well even if it's not you, like us as humans. Us, us as a society. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a reflection. It's still the majority. You're the minority for thinking that it's not. God, at what point do you think, do you think we'll ever get to the point where we don't? No. No, that's the problem, bro. That's even my problem with when we talk, when you get political and you talk about free market is unfortunately, there is a more of a majority of people that need to and want to be led. Oh yeah. And be told what to do, and to be separated, and to be put in boxes, and to be categorized. I just don't think we should give people the power to force other people to do things. That's what I don't like, because it's funny. Human behavior is very interesting. You have individual behavior, and then people start to act differently when there's a mob behind them, or when they feel like it's interesting, like nobody would ever come up to you and say, give me your money. Regardless of what the cause is, like let's say I say, give me your money so I could feed the poor, and they hold a gun to your head. Like people would still consider that theft, right? Like that, no, no, no. You can't go steal that guy's money. Even if you want to feed people. Or you want to build stuff. You still can't do that. You can't go steal money from people. I'm gonna give this to orphans. Yeah, you still can't do that, regardless, right? Is that what made the Robin Hood story so unique? You know what, people got Robin Hood wrong. Robin Hood was stealing money from the government and giving it back to the people. It was the government that was taking it from the people. He was taking it back from the government. It wasn't stealing from the rich giving to the poor. It was stealing from the government and giving it back to the people, is what it was. Is that true? Yeah, that's the old story. That's the true old story. Well, they're taxing the shit out of everybody. That's the old true story. But I mean, like I said, nobody would ever come up to you and tell you, give me your money, you know where I'm gonna shoot you, regardless of the cause, everybody would think that's theft. But if they do it through proxy, you know what I mean? Through all of us are voting that this is okay. Now I feel okay with the fact that I'm... It's kind of weird, right? No, it is weird. It's interesting how... Think about this. We're okay with it, because all my neighbors are cool. No, I believe... Peterson talks about the natural hierarchy, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some were just meant to be there. Yeah, yeah. No, I understand. That's hard, that's hard. And we need to be civilized and how do we create this civilization? There's nothing wrong with that. I just don't think we should allow structures to be put in place that allow people to tyrannize each other, that's all. I think there should be structures, but I think the structure should exist solely to protect against that. You know what I'm saying? Like, look, here's the deal. If enough people vote that everybody in the world should get a certain kind of haircut, or, excuse me, everybody in this country should get a certain haircut, that could potentially fucking happen, as crazy as that sounds. I feel like they've tried that. That's weird, right? That could potentially... So we should have things... And we do, we have things in place to protect against that kind of stuff. Imagine if everybody had like a little stash, you know. That's horrible. You know, North Korea has... They have haircuts that are approved by the government and other haircuts that are illegal. What? Oh, yeah. Illegal haircuts? Oh, man. It's a real rebel. They're state-approved haircuts. I think they have like three or four haircuts that can get a man. You definitely have a Mohawk. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, no. You can't. If you get a Mohawk, it's illegal. You're done. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't you think that's how some of these trends start like over here? Is because it represents rebellion somewhere else, and so that's what makes it so popular? Well, because we're relatively free. Even in a free... Yeah, because we have nothing to rebel over, so we have to find something, right? Sure. So I'm gonna put a Mohawk on. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, of course. If you were expressing, if you were being rebellious in North Korea, that may be just that you say out loud that you disagree with the government. That may be like a really big form of rebellion. In America, that's not like, oh, I don't like the president. Who gives a shit? Nobody cares. There's fucking comedy shows about that. It's not that rebellious. You gotta do something else. That's really crazy. Yeah, well, they shot people for not crying hard enough, right? What? Where? Google it. Yeah, in North Korea. Google it. For not crying hard. Yeah, when Kim Jong-un is ill or un, it's ill, right? The first one. He was a dad. Yeah, so when he died, there was like a gathering and they were like monitoring everybody to see how hard they were like weeping. And apparently, yeah, you had to cry really hard or they'd take you aside. Could you imagine growing up in a society like that? Imagine being born into a society like that. That has gotta be the most insane thing of all time where everything is controlled. What I'd be most curious about though is how insane does it even feel for them or does it feel insane at all? They probably don't know any different. No, I think, oh no, dude. You know how much psychological training they have to go through when North Koreans escape through China and then come to the US? It takes them years and many times they never really understand what the fuck happened. Right, how could you let people in? Like it's weird, imagine this. Imagine your entire life. You're told what you should do, how you should act, whatever. What you can say, what you can't say. And then all of a sudden everybody's like, yeah, do whatever you want. Like, well, what do you mean? Tell me what to do. No, no, no, do what you want. I don't know what that means. I don't know what I like. Yeah, they've never practiced that skill. I don't know what I like. I don't know what I want, so please tell me. You know what I mean? That could be psychologically speaking, that could be very difficult for people to deal with. It's kind of crazy, right? No, it's very crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. It's also why I feel like, again, some people want to be led, you know? That's why some naturally were meant not to, and then were meant to... Oh no, all of us follow. All of us want to follow and learn from, yeah, I get that. That's not a problem. It's just a whole force thing. I really think if you want humans to evolve, you have to let them be free enough to express how they're gonna grow and learn, but limit them so that they don't hurt each other and steal from each other. And if you let that happen, we tend to evolve and figure shit out. We're not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and we tend to make mistakes along the way, but we tend to figure shit out pretty well when you let us do that. Plus, it's morally speaking, it's like, how fucking arrogant is it to say that you know what's best for other people? I don't know what's best for you. I can have my own opinions. I've always thought that. You know, I have my own opinions and stuff, but... Right, right. You could try this. That'll probably help your life out a little bit. Here's my opinion. Who the fuck am I, right? Yeah, like, here's the deal. This is what works for me. Like, here's the deal. Let's take an easy example. Let's look at an alcoholic. Now, from the outside, I could clearly be like, pfft, that's terrible for you. Alcohol is not the answer, but maybe it is the answer for that person. Maybe they're in so much fucking pain that drinking alcohol is the answer for them, and that's what's keeping them going. I mean, who knows, you know what I'm saying? We don't have the answers for other people. I think people have to figure it out for themselves. It's a very arrogant way of thinking. It's very controlling. That's a crazy analogy to give, but I think it's a great way to have empathy. You sure? Yeah, I think it's a great way to teach yourself empathy for others like that, because we don't know it. We never know the full story, you know? No, no, no. And I think it's crazy how we don't understand that we own our bodies. That part's wild to me. Like, imagine if somebody had a truck, they owned a truck, right? And then they were like, I'm gonna paint the truck purple, and the government's like, no, you can't do that. We'll throw you in jail. We'd all be like, that's fucking crazy. Why would you throw that guy in jail for painting as he owns his own truck? But that same guy can be like, I wanna stay in my room, and I wanna be in my house. I'm not gonna go outside. I'm gonna be in my house, and I wanna take drugs for my body. I just wanna experiment with my body. We're like, no, no, no, we're gonna throw you in jail. And nobody, a lot of people think that's okay. That's weird. What do you own more than your body? You don't own anything more than that. You know what I mean? It's really weird. It's so controlling that we control people that way. Do you think it's controlling, or do you think it was necessary for us to evolve as a society? Otherwise, most people would self-destruct. No, no, I don't know. So? It's their body, that's the point. Well, do you think a lot of it, though, comes from? It's up to you to self-destruct. It's the parenting mindset that never sort of, like so if I'm trying to protect everybody, like so if I'm thinking for my kids, like there's a certain age limit where I wanna make sure that I instill everything I can so they understand, you know, like the consequences. I do this, then this happens. I do this, then this happens. And then eventually, I mean, the more you can get comfortable with letting them figure that out themselves, obviously, the better it becomes. But I feel like a lot of people, they keep that mentality of trying to make sure, like I want everybody to be safe and happy. I mean, it's just weird to me. It's just very strange, like look at prostitution. I think it's so fucking weird that we can, we have thrown people in jail for doing something that people do all the time that it's your body and people choose to do it and we don't make it illegal until you pay for it. You know what I mean? And I know why, it's because people don't wanna see it or at least they don't wanna acknowledge that people do it, but they do it anyway. It's just very controlling. We're very, very controlling. Well, prostitution I think is different for me than drugs is, because I feel like part of us putting the laws in place, and I know most of them were bullshit. I know that's the, why they got there originally, but they could serve a purpose. If we were in a society, would most of us self-destruct or would most of us end up getting addicted to all of these things? You have to ask yourself that. Is it better or worse? Here's, I mean, statistically speaking, a very, very small percentage. You know how many millions of Americans have used drugs, have tried drugs? I'm not counting, and I'm not even counting pharmaceutical drugs, which are also drugs, by the way, right? People have used pharmaceutical drugs, still drugs, still powerful, in fact kill way more people than illegal drugs, but that's a different subject. But how many Americans have tried cocaine, marijuana, psychedelics, like, you know, methamphetamines, like, how, a lot of Americans, most Americans have tried one illegal drug, and the vast majority of us haven't self-destructed and turned into fucking addicts. There's a very small percentage of us- Yeah, but is that motivation, is that motivation through fear or knowledge of them? No, I think we've tried it, and people just haven't become- So knowledge of them, you think it's because of knowledge of them? I think becoming an addict isn't so much the substance as it is the conditions that the person uses the substance. I'm not disagreeing, I'm just challenging your thought process, that's all. Yeah, so here's the thing, let me put it to you this way. Okay, if we wanna really be empath, if we really, really, really think that it's bad for people to do lots of drugs, because then they're more likely to, you know, do terrible things, more likely to be violent, more likely to steal and all that stuff, and yes, you can definitely make that argument 100%. And we all agree upon that. Why is the answer that we're gonna throw people in jail for it? Why isn't the answer, take that money, and yes, if they hurt someone on drugs, you throw them in jail. If they steal something while they're on drugs, you throw them in jail. If they do something to someone else, or someone else's property, throw them in jail. But if they do nothing else, why don't we take that money instead of throwing them in jail, saying here's some potential ways you can help yourself if you think you have a problem. Because the reality is you're not gonna be able to, you can't help someone who doesn't wanna help themselves anyway. I mean, how many addicts do you know that you can throw all the fucking resources in the world, you can throw them in jail, you can do whatever you want, if they don't wanna change, they're not gonna change. You know what I'm saying? So why not take those resources if that's what we really believe in, and say okay, maybe instead of throwing you in jail, we're gonna offer you these resources to help yourself when you're ready. And by the way, while using these drugs. Dude, yeah. Yeah, and by the way, while using these drugs, if you hurt anybody, we're gonna fucking throw you in jail. Give them tools to recover, yeah. Why would you just throw them in a box and expect an awesome human being to emerge? It's a massively controlling thing that we really need to take a step back. It's a very interesting problem. It's a very strange. How weird is that? That you can get thrown in a cage for doing something to yourself, what? I think we're just, we're watching that. We're watching it unfold. I mean, in our lifetime alone. It's changing. We're realizing that. It was a grand experiment. It was a society. It was a grand experiment. It was a grand trillion dollar experiment that destroyed a lot of communities, a lot of people. Well, I mean, I hate to be the conspiracy guy always following the money, but that's like where I always end up. Where are the motivations in this entire process? Like, why did we build all these like prisons? Why are we so greedy, dude? If we didn't have money and all these things, like would we still have that greed? Money is just a tool. Right, right. Money is just a thing right now. It's a power. Like thousands and thousands of years before we got, like humans are very, we're very interesting like that. Would you be trying to steal others, wives or partners? Would you be doing, would we have that natural desire to do that? You think a lot of people would have that? I think that's a net. Look, everybody thinks that everybody else is greedy. They never think that they're self, that themselves are greedy. Like I'll tell you what, here's an example. That's naive. It's very naive, but that's what a lot of people say. Like those greedy business people, those greedy, no, there's some. Yeah, well, look at yourself. No, no, hold on a second. Greed is a natural wanting for yourself is a very natural human emotion or human need or desire. We want for ourselves. That's how we survive, right? That's how we take care of ourselves. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that. What you want to do is you want to encourage a system that where you want more for you, the only way you can get more for you is if you do something for someone else. That's what you want to do with that. But you can't erase the, that part of us that wants for ourselves. You know what I mean? You can't erase that. So what you want to do is you want to create a system that prevents me from stealing and prevents me from beating the people up to do it. You want to reward them for certain things. Yeah, you want to be like, oh, you want lots of money? Fine. Here's a system that lets you get lots of money. But the only way you get lots of money is everybody gives it to you. On that note, how do you know that's not where China is trying to get to you? Trying to help evolve their nation faster. How? Oh, there's, there's, there's. Through that, through the whole scoring system of how do you know there's not like this huge positive spin and they're trying to help force their entire country to move in a direction to evolve us to where we can do that. You gotta know that's gotta be the spin that they put in there. Well, look, here's the difference. I don't know what it's like to grow up in there. No, no, here's the difference. The difference between what they're doing with, with that social media, you know, program or whatever they're using. That just screams control. And the difference of between what we're using here. Yeah, but again, that's also the screaming control. The control. Right, right, all that. It's the power. It's the power. It's the difference between. That's where I'm always a skeptic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like. You put too much power in one direction. Well, it's, it corrupts. Yeah, they can still. And again, I agree with you guys, I mean, thinking like that, that's gotta be the reason why it works and why so many people still do it and get behind it. Yeah, it's always, it's always a bunch of, it's always people thinking they know better and they know the direction everybody should go. And here's the deal. Sometimes, here's the kicker. Okay. How do we know that their way isn't better than our way? Cause I'll tell you why, 100%. This is 100% why. The goal, I think the goal of all societies is always to get, is for everybody to work together. I don't think anybody can argue that. Humans aren't capable of incredibly amazing things when we all decide, when we all work together. But the kicker is it has to be voluntary. It doesn't work when you force people. It's not the same. It's not the same at all. Take a group of people and force them to be creative versus a group of people coming together and out of their own violence. Is it really forcing if you're, if you're just making it aware and revealing their scores based off of the good deeds and the things that they do, are you really forcing them? Are you just revealing to everybody else in the rest of this economy and world that they live in where they're at? Where they're at. It's like, oh, Justin has five stars. He has five stars because he's done this, this, this and all these good things. His credit's good. He's good to people. He does all these things. Therefore, but here's again, like your concern, you know, with the free market and all that. What my concern is that there's always gonna be somebody within that fabric that's gonna be able to hack in and manipulate things, which is they're gonna like take it. They don't have to hack in. They don't have to hack in. It's the owners of that program. And they've created a monopoly for it. So in other words, let's say you're in China right now. You live in China and you've got this system now that the government now has put place forth. And you designed. They're the ones that built it. You're like, you know what? I like that system. It's kinda cool. It's a lot just from that. But I wanna make a system that I think is gonna be better. You can't. It's illegal. You can't put out a system on their internet. There's no competition. No, they've monopolized it. It's control. And that's the problem. We have the same. That's what it is. There's no checks and balances. That's right. The difference is here, we have that too. We have Facebook and Instagram and we have Twitter and we have TV and radio and podcast. We have all that shit here too, but it's not illegal to create something that may work better. You see what I'm saying? Over there, it's like, it's a monopoly. It's a state-sponsored monopoly. And of course, the people sponsoring it have the power to, let me put it this way. If that system, let's say that system explodes and does very well for them and everybody buys in and of course, because it's forced, there's no competition. But let's say they do do a good job and they figure it out. What's to say that they're not gonna be like, okay, let's take all the people with a score less than 100. Let's just go round them up and throw them in jail. Oh no, I already see. Did I'm saying? I see all the where it could be bad, but that's again us looking at it from that perspective. What if you looked at it from the other perspective of what could all the positive things? Imagine how easy you could bring everybody up. If everybody could actually see all that stuff, you wouldn't actually migrate to people with higher scores especially if the scoring was based off of good things. Being a good person in society, not stealing. That already happens. It kinda does, but this is just exposing it on another level. It's not exposing it, it's monopolizing it. Well, I agree. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I say in our perspective and the way we look at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But think about it this way. When you meet someone. I know it challenges your 100% your beliefs. It's liberty and free market. I mean, it's everything against that. No, no, no, no, let me put it this way. When you meet someone, it's very natural for you to score them yourself. There's many things. What my friends said about that person, how that person's carrying themselves. Maybe the car they drive, the way they walk, the way they present themselves, how they dress. Maybe I can look up their credit score. You're allowing somebody else to create that for you. That's right, and it's monopolized. Right, and the argument could be a majority of people don't do a good enough job of that. Now you are a different person. You're a really intelligent person. You have empathy, you have experience, you're knowledgeable, you're well read. You have the ability to decipher all that information when you're processing, okay, meeting this person. Who are these all-knowing, angelic, awesome people? It's not necessarily that they're all-knowing, but maybe they're in a better position to help guide them. Go find them for me. Think about it this way. No, no, I agree. Find me. Just challenging you. The very people that seek that kind of power are the very people you don't want to have. I know. That kind of power. Go find me these altruistic, angelic, all-knowing fucking leaders that can decide these things for us. It doesn't work that way. Nobody has that knowledge, that information. Nobody, no one, no group of people can do that. The best chance we have is to let everybody, and I mean everybody, I mean everybody, decide that through a system of- You can't just say the smartest people because a lot of times they lack the most empathy. Oh my God, some of the most evil motherfuckers in the world were super intelligent, super smart, smart, smart people. But that's the argument a lot of times. Let's just gather the smartest people in the world and have themself all our problems. No, dude, no. You know, the progressivism, now modern progressivism is different, but it started a long time ago with intellectuals and intellectuals thinking that they could shape society, and they came up with cleansing society of getting rid of races that were not eugenics, yeah, killing off these races, they're not as smart as us, and oh, dumb people are gonna be, we're gonna kill them over here to ensure they were trying to sculpt and shape society. It's all about control, man. And when people need to realize is stop trying to control people, let people live, just protect yourself from, you know, make sure that nobody hurts each other, whatever, I understand that part. And that's the only way that things progress. You can't control everybody, it doesn't work that way. Well, it just doesn't work. I mean, think about some of the very first laws, what were like the first, like as far as like a society, right? What were some of the first- The first rules were just societal pressures, I think. They weren't necessarily laws in the sense that they were just, like think about it this way, like. Don't murder me. Yeah, like, I don't think it had to be a law that you're living in a tribe, and oh, that guy's killing people. We're all gonna kill him, because he's dangerous. He's getting rid of that guy. Or, oh, you're lazy? Well, because you're lazy, you're not gonna eat, you gotta go get your own food or whatever. It was easier, I think, to manage, but a lot of the original laws were based around things that are older than us, older than societies, that help us form these societies that kind of function well together, that's what I think. But it is interesting, though, that control that we want over other people and feeling like we know what's better for everybody. We just don't. You just don't know what's better for people. I think we're all susceptible to that feeling, though. Like, when you get a certain amount of knowledge, and you're like, oh, well, I could do it so much better this way, and you just get arrogant about it. They should raise their kids like this. They should say these things, and these are the things people should learn. And, no, man, it doesn't really, I don't know, it kind of doesn't work that way, you know? I mean, look at education. I think when we plug that into education, we create a bunch of robots. You know what I mean? Rather than teaching kids what to think, like teach them how to think, or help them. Yeah, and give them kind of like tools to expand their own knowledge by what they're interested in, and kind of watch what happens, you get a lot of innovation that way. That's why you're seeing an explosion of entrepreneurship right now. 100%, technology's creating that, 100%. I agree, though. You know, it's been a long time since entrepreneurship was cool. It really has. It's been, I mean, it's always been kind of cool, but it's losing, it's cool for me. Right, when everybody else is thinking it's cool, I think it's losing, it's cool for me. We gotta call it something else. Yeah, what are we gonna call it? I don't know. I think it's losing, it's cool to me because I think that people think it's way easier than what it really is. Entrepreneurship? Yeah, I think the perception of it has changed a lot. Yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of people, cause you, I mean, what defines entrepreneurship, right? Going into work for yourself? Nine to five, really, these days. Right, working for you, basically, right? Not working for anyone else. That's all you have to say. That's a very wide spectrum. Very, very, like we need to separate that. There are different levels. I don't want to be lumped in with, like, I take pictures and that's it. Yeah, but I make money, but it's true. It's an entrepreneur. Loan officers and real estate agents are kind of like entrepreneurs. I mean, there's a little bit of a structure, but they're kind of building their own business too. So there's different levels. Then you got people who open up a business. That's a different level of it. I just feel like it's getting bastardized right now. That's how I feel. Whatever, I don't care. Well, I don't want to care. Let people try, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just less cool to me. It's just less cool. Yeah, it was hella cool. It's just what happens. It's not cool anymore. Yeah, it's like a term or something like your parents. Maybe we get saying, like, getting jiggy with it, like, you know, you catch your parents saying that, and you're like, what the fuck? Bro, that's us now, by the way. I know. We're all saying the stupid shit. That's dirty. I know. I know, I know. I've caught you myself. It comes at 30 years old. You guys remember Alf? No, I think, I think, no, entrepreneurship is cool. And I like that because it's allowing people to go in and create and express themselves. I like that. But you're also, a lot of people are going to learn that. It's not for everybody. That's for sure. I think it's not for most people. Let's be honest. Entrepreneurship is not for most people. Although, you know, because it's easier to become an entrepreneur, it might be, entrepreneurship might be for more people today than it was before though. Think about that. Like 20 years ago, if you wanted to start a business, you needed to be able to gain, to build capital, save up, risk it on a business. So there was a smaller pool of people willing to do that. Today, it doesn't necessarily mean that. You can start a business with way less capital, way less chance or risk. There you go. It's called risk takers. Yeah. Well, it's no different. It's allowed you to very degrade of it. I remember I was telling you guys this. A lot of people, you'll see that. What we're seeing in pocket. Let's talk about our space. That's what we know more about right now in anything, right? Like our space, you're going to see a lot of people that will come in and they'll reach kind of their ceiling potential. They'll get, and that's because, what's cool though, is they can do that really fast today, faster than what they could have done a long time ago. Like you have to get a, before you had to do a brick and mortar and build a business around it. You know how long it takes before so many people pass by your building or so many magazines or newspapers or radio spots. I was talking to my buddy who owns a gym and I was trying to explain this to him and I'm like, listen man, because look, I came up in the gym business just like you guys did, but it's so different. I was trying to explain to him, I'm like, look man, you own a gym, let's say, first of all, you got to fucking bust your, you're here, and look, you got to bust your ass no matter what, but you got to be here busting your ass differently when you own a brick and mortar business, like a gym, and you're limited to how many people you can reach because there's a certain perimeter of how many miles around you that people will come actually work out at your gym. You're not gonna get people from across the country buying a membership at your gym because they can't access your gym, so you're limited in that respect. But let's say you do succeed and you do well and you want to open another gym, well now you got to risk another half a million dollars in another business and then you got to do that all over again and now you've lost the money. And you have to duplicate the same environment that you created to make that one successful. That's a whole another monster. There's layers of the onion. You just accomplished like center. And I was trying to tell him how hard it is to scale that versus an online business where scaling it is way easier. You know what I mean? Like you could create an informational product that people really value, build some authority and then just duplicate it. I think it's equally as hard. I don't know man, going through this funnel process, dude, this is so complex. Yeah. It is, but to scale it. People don't understand the behind the curtain. Listen, what's your definition of scaling though? It's not easy at all. What's your definition of scaling? Well, let me put it this way. Let's say... It's not easy to scale. Well, hold on. Let's say you want to sell a hundred dollar, a hundred dollar membership, right? A hundred dollar membership and you had a gym and you wanted to reach 10,000 people. That's fucking going to be very, very hard to reach 10,000 people. And then let's say you want to reach a million people, 10 million people. Online scaling that can happen a lot faster. That's a lot easier. In the brick and mortar, it's going to be like ridiculous amounts of capital having to dump in and tied up into like restaurants or gyms or businesses. Like look at like, look how much money we have invested to reach as many people as we've reached. How hard would that be in a brick and mortar business? I think you're right, but there's also a lot of barriers that people don't understand that are monumental barriers until you reach that freedom. Yes. I think it's just as hard, it's different. It's just a total different, way more upside, you know, like with online, like way more upside because of the access to more people and just the whatever product or whatever message you're putting out there. Also way more risk for it to come crashing all the way down. True. Oh my God. You look at examples of like shreds. It's a house of cards. Look how, right. Oh man, you see rise and fall so fast. So that's what I mean by it's, I don't know if it's such a better time or it's so much easier. I don't think it's any of those things. I think it's different. I think it's easier in a lot of respects, but you're right, it is very different. I don't think it's easier. Well, the barriers are lower, much lower. The money barrier is much lower. Yeah, but with that, okay, because of that, now means the competition doubles and triples, which means it's even more competitive, which means it's even harder to stand out. So for everything that you say is positive, there's a bad side to that. Yeah, there was a window there. So it's not timing. It's not really as easy as everybody thinks it is. I hear what you're saying. No, I'm thinking of specifics. You're right. Generally speaking, yeah, no, it's not easier. But in some respects it is in the sense that, like the barriers alone were, the barrier to open a brick and mortar is capital, lots of capital. The barrier. But because of that, now that I have, now I have fucking five Joe Smoles that have no business even being in my business, are opening right next door to me and using gimmicks and doing things to get attention that I gotta deal with as a business owner now. The monster is the same, dude. It's the same monster. It's still difficult for sure. What's different now, I feel like, is that the things, the core things that are so important to be building and scaling a very successful business tends to get lost in all this minutiae, right? All this shit that we have with people with social media and posting pictures and pretending to be more successful than what they really are. At the end of the day, the basics are the same. The rules are the same. You gotta provide some shit with value. You gotta be able to produce it efficiently so that you can sell it at a profit. And you need to be able to build a team that can scale and work under it. Gotta have an incredible product. Yeah, and I mean. Gotta have an incredible product, dude. Yeah, bottom line. Bottom line. And I don't care if it's the, I mean, old, new, that's the bottom line. You can't, because we do see people who reach a lot of people through new media that don't have a business. No. They don't have a business. Every time I talk to a young person that's getting into this space, they always wanna ask me questions around like the algorithms to YouTube and the Facebook and Instagram. How do I hack my way to the top? Right. You can't. You don't want to. That's what my argument is. You don't wanna hack your way to the top. You don't wanna receive a million people following you for some weird ass reason that you don't wanna keep up for the next 30 years of your life. No, if you're listening right now, fucking think about that for a second. You don't wanna hack the system. Unless you wanna come in and out just as quickly as you can. Right, yeah. Plus, it'd be short lived. Plus, the thing that trips me out is how people, they want that attention so bad. And it's like fame without. That's why it's really deceiving. Fame is terrible. Because it's also fucking with your ego at the same time too. Because now all these people are comparing and that's why you see everyone. I got a million followers on it. You want that much attention on you for what? Yeah, what are you doing? You've done nothing with it. Why do you want that more? You make six figures. You've got a million people watching you for six figures. Like why would you want that? It's a total ego game the entire time. Look at all these people liking it. Well, yeah. And I think it's a little bit of BSP and naive too. I think at that point, a lot of people that are reaching that maybe, they haven't put the hard work in. They haven't failed at enough businesses. They haven't built something up the hard way, right? They haven't gone and done the long work first before they can get that success, long term success. That's why it's good. Actually, I mean, it is true. It's like one of the worst things you could possibly get is what you think you want and realize you don't want that that's not what it was. Like you could chase success and maybe through some fluke luck, get it because you did some viral video or whatever. It is not the same as like learning the process the entire time struggling, failing and succeeding like that may actually be your worst nightmare. It is. Yeah. 100% is. Yeah. I've always said that about our business. I don't want us to get a, I don't want to go viral. I don't want to all of a sudden a million people flood in. That's why we're learning all these other processes that we have to get in place and look where we're at right now and what we're doing today. It's just, it's another example of so important to have all that. This actually echoes and I always bring music as an analogy, but it echoes really, really good musicians who've put in like an insane amount of time to. He still wants us to be a rock band. Bro. I do. I'm telling you guys. You want us to be a rock band so I can't sing, bro. I hate it. You picked the wrong guys. Yeah, I do guys. The least fucking musical. It's just so ironic to me that this is like exactly what I was, bro. I was going for, right? This is something, this is like a dream of mine, but it looks so much different now that I'm, you know, doing it this way. Yeah. It makes sense. Like I have this vision of like, I don't know, you get in this flow state, you're playing music, everything's awesome and you're just in the moment, but I can recreate that by just, you know, podcasting and meeting cool people and all that same thing, but it's just, it's just the weird to me that didn't take off. I know. I will say. It's weird to me. I will say this like creating a business where we can literally express ourselves and do it in a way that where we feel like there's a real meaning and purpose behind it. Like we really want to help people. We really want to help bring the right kind of information. We really want to train people like we did for years as personal trainers, but be able to reach a lot of people and help shift, you know, the way people think and that we've actually created a business around that is a real amazing blessing. And I swear to God, man, especially days like this, like we're literally sitting on a balcony. I think we're lucky. We're talking. I think we're lucky because timing and business means everything. And we are coming. We're authentic people coming into a space that is not authentic at all at the right time. I don't think, you know, I feel lucky at all. I feel lucky, but I also feel like, I feel like it's a responsibility that we've taken on. Yeah. And I only mean that being that we all had different paths that led us here. No, no, no, no. Deliberately. Right. That's the only point I was making of that. It took that formula to work, but our timing is lucky. I feel unfortunate. Because let's put it this way. If all that fast forward in 10 years, this will be, in my opinion, this market will be hard to break through. The space, the space will demand this. Will demand that people, like I want to be, no matter what brand I'm dealing with. Think of it this way. We tried going the app direction. We tried the gym business. We tried personal training. We tried, you know, car washing. We tried, we tried a lot of fucking shit. This is the one. It's not luck. Yeah, no, Adam, fuck you, man. No, I know what you're saying. You're saying the timing is excellent. And it's perfect for us where we're at also in our own personal journeys and lives. And our collective journey together, I think, is important. Oh, it couldn't have happened at a better time. Yeah, I definitely am not discreeting it. Especially we all put a plenty of work in. I am so, so thankful that I did not meet you guys when we were in our 20s. No, really, in our 20s. It is totally different. I think if we met in our 20s, that this would have never, it would have never worked out the way it has. No way. It would have been a lot of ego, a lot of fucking, you know. It might have been fun for a second, but I'm out of here. Yeah, I don't know if it would have been like it is now. So anyway. I love that the hardest part of our job is making sure that we get our episodes up. And so we actually have to podcast on a beach sometimes. I hope it's like that in 10 years from now. Whoops. Yeah, yeah. I hope it's like that in 10 years. Really cool, man. And it was really nice going out there today. And so, you know, what we like to do some, what we, and this is something I really appreciate. By the way, guys, I want to say this. I really, really appreciate this, that we value this process so much that we actually schedule time to go away in order to work, but really it's not just to work. It's also to foster this creative energy because we value it so much and we see how important it is for what we do. And like a piece of that was like, you know, a few hours ago we were out on the beach sitting down and we always talk about business. It's always about the business. We almost don't talk about anything else because we're so passionate about it. But it's just being able to be on the beach and be in that environment, be outside of the studio, outside of work. And we come up with our best ideas and every time we do something like this, I really feel driven in a different way. Well, it sounds woo to say it keeps us grounded, but it really does. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Easily your ego can take off with something like this. Something as big as what's happening. For sure, it can. And I think allowing us to disconnect from it. That's why I kept asking Justin where you're at with your phone right now because I remember when my phone broke in Seattle and it tripped me out. I spent the first day every five minutes trying to fix it. Yeah. Literally you kept trying to fix it. Because I had it. Well, you had it. At least you don't have it. You went crazy and tried to find it for about 10 minutes and realized you don't have it. Imagine having it and thinking I might be able to fix this thing. Like I was fucking with it for a whole day. And then I just accepted it. I accepted it. I'm not going to have it. Then it took another 24 hours of being disconnected. Then it was the 48th hour where I was like, this feels really nice. So the best is yet to come, bro. Yeah, the best is yet to come. I think I would fare much worse than you guys without my phone. I have, you guys handled it pretty well. I brought my laptop, too, is like sort of, you know, that was like one last electronic outlet or like, you know, I could tap into that. And then that just died. Listen, I tell you what. I tell you what. I think we should schedule a time where we go off and we literally, and I know you're going to say no, Adam, we go camp where we have no electronics. But because we are, we can camp in Beverly Hills mansion. Yeah, no. He wants to go. Yeah. He's like, we can go stay in a hotel. No, no, no. I want to go. You know, someone sent me that. Someone sent me a meme the other day in my DM. They sent me this meme of like, like it was some, it was a camping reference. What about how you would camp? Yeah, it was like a five star hotel and like room service. So I think we should go out into nature for a few days, disconnect from everything, be lost. And I think we'll come back with some of the best fucking creative information that we've come up with. You know me. I'm nature boy. But hold on. Here's the deal now. I know Adam hates that. He does not want to go to nature. He doesn't want to rough it. I get that. I don't like it either. So I can, I can relate. I grew up in it. But you're also fucking, you're also a fucking team player, bro. What we're going to do is we're going to vote. We're going to vote. You're also a team player. Raise your hand if you think that's a, raise your hand if you think that's a good idea. Oh, looks like that's what we're doing, Adam. Yeah. Fuck yeah. Go team. No, I'm not down. I just don't want to turn into the on it crew. We're going to do Ayahuasca fucking. No, we're not going to go. I'm saying like, let them be, let them do that. There's plenty of people that are into all that shit. They have their own team bonding. And then I want to talk about that every fucking thing and getting closer to becoming like God. Like that ain't my thing. We're just camping, but I definitely see lots of value and us going out to the beach and nature. Yeah, but that's how he starts, bro. He starts you there and he's going to slide you into some Ayahuasca. I'm warning you, Justin. I've never even done Ayahuasca. I've never seen that coming. Dude, thanks for the warning. I've never even done that. That's so funny. Because we are 100% we're going to go do something like that because I'm super game for that. And I think it's just, I think it's good in general. Katrina and I have talked about that. We're, you know, unplugging, leaving everything, just for two or three days and go be with each other and go camping or go out on the beach. It doesn't, and to me, it doesn't have to be roughing it like fucking crazy. Stop trying to close us. Yeah. I mean, you know, we can just turn everything off. Yeah, yeah. But be in a hotel. I knew that was his angle. It doesn't get much more peaceful than what we're sitting at right now. Yeah, well, it does though. It does. It does. Really? Yeah. If you're, if all of us were, I want to go to Alaska. If we were in nature and there was nothing, not even this podcast and it was just us, there's nothing else. That's a little bit different. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be good. I like this better though. I'm not gonna lie. This is nice. This is nice. Good conversation. Nice breeze on me. Sun's blaming on me. I can hear the waves crashing. That's right. You're not going to beat it. Yeah. Except if I had a Moscow mule. That's warm. Did you bring stuff for drinks at all this trip? No, man. No, we got to go get some sober trips. This was sober. This was soberish. Why dude? I don't have a phone. It's so funny how we don't consider weed. It's sober. It's medicine. Yeah, exactly. It's part of the process. I don't know about you guys, but I'm hungry. Yeah, I am too. Let's grab some food. I'm down. Hey look, check this out. You can find us on Instagram. I'm Mind Pump Sal. We have Mind Pump Adam. Mind Pump Justin. Also, we have free resources. Isn't that crazy? I can just turn it on like that. I can just turn it on. You're a professional. God damn it. We have free resources. You didn't think that episode was enough of jerking yourself on? You had his hand off your back. You had an attack. You needed to do some more. I'm just like two hours of jerking on. At least one of us do it for you. You have the people already tuned out. God, so I was such a fucking professional, always killing you. Taking away Justin. Where can they find the free guy? You need to find us at... It's at MindPumpFree.com. That's the new link that... I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. I want to do it. I want to do it. I know my strengths. You're doing so well, Justin. I know my strengths. I'm very self-conscious. Free guides. We have all of our free guides. I know my strengths. I know my strengths. I know my strengths. I know my strengths. I know my strengths. I know my strengths. I know my strengths. I'm very self-conscious. Free guides. We have all of our free guides on there. Flabby Arm Guide, Flat Tummy Guide, Build Your Chest Guide, Build Your Quads Guide, Well Written Guides. Who wrote them? Who wrote them? I did. And they're all free. MindPumpFree.com. Go check it out. Thank you for listening to MindPump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. 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