 So I don't run out of batteries. You walk through this part. Make sure you're feeling agile and can leap over the cords. Don't trip. Hey, Siri, next slide. That's not going to work. This first slide. Yeah. Hey, you got the shirt. So everybody who comes to my talk gets a shirt. Just see me after the talk and I'll hook you up. So here's what strikes me nuts. One of the things in life that I just hate more than anything else is when the dang little cursor won't go away. It happens all the time. Even if I tuck it into the corner, it's going to be still there. You can see it. It's right freaking there. Whatever. I'm going to try and not think about it. Okay. Well, here's my dog. All right. I know. Is he cute? It's not my dog. It's the unscratched. But everybody loves dogs. When you put a dog slide up, everybody thinks you're great. So the title of my talk as I just had up is the death of child themes. Question mark meaning. Maybe it's not. But it is the death of child themes. For me, at least currently, I'm starting to think that maybe I don't need them anymore. How many people know what a child theme is here? Okay. So most of us have some knowledge of child themes, but in case anybody doesn't. So in WordPress, when you make a theme or when you use a theme, often you want to, you want 99% of what the theme does, but you need it to do a little bit more. Maybe you need it to have a little bit more styling, like a different color or a different font or maybe the layout has to be different. Maybe there's a function that you want to add something that might like filter something that somebody's trying to upload to the site and make sure that it's not infected with a virus or something. Maybe you want to put some Google Analytics on your page. So that would be something where you would add the script file for the JavaScript. Oh, hey, I'm going to wait for everybody because now I just got a crowd. We were but. Oh, hey. So you all missed the picture of my dogs, which I'm going to put back up. Can we go back? I know. This is high. Rover says hello. All right. So yeah, we use a child theme because we want to add these special things, but we know that if we add them to the theme that we're using, and we go to our WP admin and we see that the theme has been updated and we update the theme, all those things are going to be destroyed. They're not going to be there, your Google Analytics, your style that you added in, your functions or your PHP, your JavaScript, those things are just gone. So, oh man, what just happened? All your work just got lost. And that's why you use child themes. So in commerce customization, yeah, you need to be able to add the full folders and files to the theme, but you don't want them to be destroyed when the theme gets updated. Very, very useful concept and commonly used throughout WordPress and something that has absolutely changed, at least for me, since the emergence of FSE. So how many people know what FSE is or have heard of that, that NF acronym? Okay, so most of us or some of us. So FSE is a hot term right now in WordPress. It means full site editing for the longest time, being a WordPress user meant logging in and going to a tiny MCE, if that's something familiar with you, it's the classic editor. It looks like a box of bold icons at the top and you can type stuff in there and you can highlight it and make it bold, but it really wasn't like seeing what your website looked like. You had to kind of get an idea of what would be hit publish, go to another tab and load the page and refraction and say, oh, wait, no, that's in the wrong place. And then you go back to your editor and you try to do something in a different way and then you go back and you get refraction. Oh, that looks closer, let's try it. What people want is to not do that. They want to go in and say they want something bold and aligned to the right. They want to see it as they're doing it and then when they publish it, it looks exactly the same. And this concept is known as WYSIWYG. And as far as I can remember, we've always thought about what WYSIWYG meant in terms of editing on a computer. What you see is what you get. So I think of full-site editing, it's the same idea. It's what you see is what you get. You want to see what you're doing as you're doing it. Another term that comes up a lot is the idea of no-code web development so that you can be a web developer and make websites that somebody else needs or a designer has designed without ever using or touching code. And those are like utopian concepts. Everybody would love for that to be a possibility. But it just never happened. WYSIWYG has always been what you see and what you think you'll get until you get refreshed. It's not very reliable. So the full-site editing, these slides are kind of thrown together. So I should have said that full-site editing is an idea that came about in WordPress 5.8. We're now on 6.1, almost on the dawn of 6.2. So it's a growing concept. It's a growing technology. But the bottom line is that something has changed in the appearance menu. When you're logged into WordPress and you look in appearance, you'll see that the word editor appears. And that's where full-site editing lives. You might have heard, I'm sure you've heard, Gutenberg, any takers on that one, the block editor. I think those are all really the same thing as full-site editing. But maybe I'm wrong. Part of my talk is that I can say things that are just wrong, and then somebody in the group is going to go, yeah, that's not true. Because that makes the thing more of a learning experience for all of us. Because it's new for me too. I am banging my head against the wall with some of these ideas. And I'm going to, and you'll hear me do that in this talk. Okay, so tied in with this full-site editing thing is this new file that's in modern themes or block themes called theme.json. Json stands for JavaScript Object Notation. And it's required for a theme to be considered a block theme, I think. JSON, this is how you say it. It sounds cool. Otherwise, you'll say JSON and people will look at you sideways. It looks sort of like that green stuff over there, which doesn't look like JavaScript, or doesn't look like HTML if you've ever written HTML. It doesn't look like CSS if you've written CSS. It looks like something much more abstract, at least to me. All these colons and brackets, and there's indentation levels and commas, and it's weird. But it's something that I've been trying to wrap my head around, because I know if I want to keep using WordPress, I need to figure this thing out. What I do know about theme.json is it is a way of relaying the overall general default layout of your website, including what sections are in your website, what colors, what typefaces, what the spacing units are, and that you can list the templates that you want to use. Has anybody ever created a custom template for a theme? Right, okay. So you create a new page, and you go down to that drop-down menu, and it has templates, and you can choose one that you want it to lay out like. And maybe in that custom template, you have a sidebar, or maybe you have three columns. That's gone, because you do that in your JSON file using these templates, which is somewhere in this giant pile of JSON over there. And if you have parts here, like you've had the header.php file, if you make a footer.php file, a sidebar.php file, those are now template parts. So those are things that are getting defined in the theme.json file. So there's a lot to learn about the way themes are being built. And I just kind of putting it off. Like, I'm trying to get in and really study it, but I just saw, okay, let's get started with full-site editing. And then I did that, I realized that the themes.json was killing my child-themed development workflow. And that's why I thought, I can do a talk, but we can figure this out together. And that's what this is about. So, like, been running around like a madman, doing too many things in the last week, which is usually when I put slides together. And then I thought, oh, man, we can do this talk. So at first I was like, let's use Jet, check GBT and check one together. And then my friend Adrian said, just present that use case. And that's a really not great picture. I just, like everything else I've done, ranked it out really quick. But I think it's a good idea. Why don't I tell you how I got to this point where I'm so frustrated with themes.json and child themes and everything else. So let's say the backstory here. So I have a friend and they needed a website and I like helping out. So I said, Cheryl, let's make your website. And I thought, how can I make this useful for me because I'm not going to charge them. But I do want to learn to me that that's a good trade off. So I said, let's do it. Let's see if I can become a no code theme developer and that can make this theme entirely using the block editor, using Google block, using full site editing because that's the promise. So let's see if it can deliver and not going to touch any code, not going to write any of that garbledy book over there. So I got started. And I'm cruising around in the full site editor and I'm going to pull this full site editor as part of this at the end. But I got the hang of it. I figured out where you could change colors of your background, your foreground. I could figure out where you could choose different fonts. So that kind of got in the way. I did the fonts part. I was like, something's wrong here. But I worked on the templates. I changed the way the header should be so that I'd have a navigation on one side and a logo on the other side. And it seemed like it was working okay. And I was learning and it was going great. And then the fonts thing came back. I was looking at the fonts where in the full site editor, and I will show you this, when you go to the what's called the global styles for the entire website, there is text. And under the text, there's a choice of fonts. And I said, what is this? Like a font menu that you can pick a different font for your website. And there were six fonts in there. And I'm like, something's really fishy here. Like this doesn't make sense. Like there should be, you know, like in Microsoft Word, we've got Urbana and Ariel and all the other garbage fonts that come in the computer. Or there should just be like a place to type in the name of the font. Or maybe there could be like a way to pick a Google font. But I just was confused by that. And I was thinking, well, no, I'm not going to look at the theme. I'm not going to look inside that theme folder. So I put it in there. I want to see if I can do this 100% with ever not touching it. I thought, okay, so how can I do this? Well, I could do it using a plugin. Plugins can do everything. I went on Google and I just said, you know, full site editor, Google font picker. And there's a bunch. But I hate using plugins unless I absolutely have to. So with that in mind, I said, okay, well, I don't see another way to get the custom font on this person's site. They wanted this person specific font. It wasn't one of the five. Of course it wasn't one of the six fonts. Who uses those fonts? Nobody. I don't know. Probably some people. But I think, you know, people, they want. They want Ariel. They want, you know, Times New Roman. They want Papyrus and Comic Sans. But they don't ever say, oh, let's see what it looks like an IBM Plax Mono. So I said, okay, well, I guess I got to do a child theme. There's no way I can keep my hands off the code at this point. So it's failed me in a way. It's not there. It's not ready for production. At least the way I use it. So I built a child theme. No, child themes are not hard to make. You just create a new folder and put some code in there. But if you can actually remember that code word by word, which I can't, great. Good for you. I just use this thing. ChildThemeGenerator.com You hit it. You make a new child theme. You tell it what the parent theme should be and your folder is there. You put it in your themes folder and you're off and running, which works great. So the first thing I did was I said, okay, well, I need to add the code to get the font in because they wanted to use a font. Let's say, I don't remember what it was. It probably happens. But I don't think I'd use that for this demo. But anyway, I looked at StyleSheet and this is what's in the StyleSheet. But this doesn't seem right because I'm looking at this 2023 as my base theme, which is the one that comes with WordPress when you install it. And 2023 has, it's pretty barren but it has some styling. There's different style spots. The fonts are not like, it doesn't look like, you know, what's that website? It's the one that's super, super, like, you know, nothing in it has like a curse word in it. That's the website. What is it? So, okay. I know that one. Anyways, I thought it was going to be, you know, just ugly and barren and nothing there. I'll think of it and we'll pull it up later and figure it out about it. I can't remember. It's not that though. It's like, so you wanted an F-ing website, here it is. It's accessible to the website or it's a, no, it's mobile friendly and it's just like no style sheet at all. So, I thought it would look like that but it doesn't. It has style, it has structure, it has scale, spacing. It's a nice look. I mean, if you like most kind of looking websites, it looks okay. But there's no styles. There's no styles in styles.css file. And so how does that happen? Where are those styles coming from? Because if you don't have a CSS file, how are you making this stuff happen? This is not how I used to think about making websites. I didn't think about it the way we are supposed to be thinking about it. So I said, okay. There is no style.css in the theme that you're working with. There is. But there's nothing in it. There's no style. That's the child name. Right. So in the parent, so in 2023 if you open style.css, there's nothing. There's just like the gray text. The comments, you know, about the theme and where it's located and what version and all this stuff. But there's none of this. This is the goodies right down here. That's where it all happens. So I thought, okay, well, I guess I have to edit this style sheet. And I put in some code to get Roboto Flex to be imported from Google. So you go to Google Fonts. You find the font you want. You hit import or you have found the font. It gives you this code. Copy, paste. Put in your CSS. Okay, not refresh your page. So I put the CSS in. And then went into the dashboard. Switched over to the appearance panel. Went to my themes and chose the 2023 child theme that I had generated with the child theme generator. Thinking great. Okay, now I should be able to use my wonderful Roboto Flex. And does it work? Well, not really. Because everything that I had done with the template part customization, putting the navigation on the right, the logo on the left, changing my background color, changing my foreground color to something more brand oriented, was gone. Like, that made no sense to me. Like, why would that happen? So I Because I'm using a child theme, but the child theme should inherit. Right, why not? That's the purpose of it. So it'll inherit the core theme stuff. But then it's like you just install a brand new theme. The database, if you switch back, all that stuff that you did is still on the parent theme. But it's not starting the database for the child theme. In any case, what you're saying is probably true. And that's part of my whole brain meltdown. So what about calling a style sheet from the header on PHP? The style sheet that you created since the original home was not using it but if you add calling the style sheet to the header.php, then it will. True too. All I know is that this was not the behavior I expected. I thought for sure that any edits that I had done in the site editor would be maintained because all I'm doing with this child theme is importing a single there's nothing that I'm doing other than importing a single font. And that's it. But all of my styles have been thrown out the window. So that to me didn't make any sense. And it still doesn't. And I'm going to pull up and just so you can see it, I'll do it live after I'm done with this. I thought, okay, well, what if I do this? I'm going to copy the theme.js on file. Because in the child theme there was no theme.js on file. All there was was the functions .css functions.php and the style.css file. So what if I bring over the theme.json file and I'll make a copy exact copy from 2023 and put it in my child in 2023 child and didn't matter. It didn't matter. It still didn't retain any of my custom work. So the only thing that I could do was to switch back to the parent theme 2023 and as far as the custom font goes, I ended up using plugins because, you know, I gave up at that point. So what's the, you know, I guess I could have taken the child's themes folder and edited that to just ignore that. Because the way we're dealing with fonts now is really, really weird when it comes to full-site editing. You have to download the font. You have to install it or you have to serve it locally. Which is totally new. Never before. Did you have to do that with your themes? You could just refer to, out of the box, you could refer to a Google font and import it. But now they have to be served locally. Maybe that's a good thing. That's a different story, different rant. So what's my conclusion? It's that child themes don't inherit global style. Well, I'm going to show you what global styles are in case it's still confusing and it doesn't matter whether or not you include a theme.json file. So why do you even do it? Well, you do a child theme in modern full-site editing because right up front you know that you're going to need additional things that the WordPress core editor does not provide you with. Which in my case was the ability to add additional fonts. There's no way to add fonts without touching code in WordPress. And that to me is something that hopefully will change. It seems like a no-brainer that you would want that if you wanted to present your technology as something that does, takes a no-code for full-site editing or with a weird approach to developing a website. Now, all these things I am happy to be proven wrong about and I'd love to get people's opinions or knowledge because I think that this is a group thing. Maybe we have an issue here that we can bring up in WordPress and maybe this is something that we can improve WordPress by doing. This was kind of a relevant quote I was searching around and that the idea of child themes that they really won't, this particular quote, they won't make a ton of sense because they likely won't be much shared code between two, the two once the team.json is even more robust with what it supports. I'm not totally sure what that means but it kind of limits my idea that maybe child themes are not going to be around. Yeah. The current way to begin in custom font is to use the three blocks to keep from the table font or any local font. Yeah. I kind of interviewed the whole, that kind of goes well with the three block but I did that actually what you just said, I did install that and I created a plug, I'll show you, I created a theme for this demo so I'll hold that open. And the switch and it did not stay, yeah it doesn't stay. Yeah. No, for what I was, no okay so I used, to do all this locally, I used a program called local and then I used to do any testing, I just used local and I'll show you that, I'll hold that up. Yeah. Okay so I have another slide but it's fine. Let me pull my last one up and then you can um, just for the reading. So yeah this is a really good article if any of this stuff is confusing this is going to help you, like Caroline who seems to know everything there is to know about what my questions are. I've read this article several times and it's helped quite a bit. If you're interested in learning more about how a block based theme works and in particular if you did use a child theme with your block based theme what kind of things you should be aware of. Still doesn't answer all my questions though. So what's your question? I just wanted to touch on a point that I wanted to highlight that child theme is long and hard to understand. That's not true. That's not really true. I think once you install the child theme it shouldn't necessarily inherit everything. I think the experience that you have is when you make customizations in the editor then you switch themes to the child theme and once you switch over to the child theme it's considering that okay now you've got a new theme but it didn't any of the customizations that you were in the editor didn't get to go to the editor. That's my conclusion. You have to do it right away. Which is counter to how styles.css works. In styles.css you can make a child theme whenever you want and just put that one into your style sheet from the parent. Let me ask you a question. That's why I was confused. So you created the child theme by using a plugin basically or a website that generated that particular child theme. Maybe the way child themes work has changed. So is there different files that you need to put in place than standard monthly functions? I think one of the reasons coming around is that you need to change the editor versus styles.css. So the editor when you go into the customizer and change it no changes are saved in the database and associated themes you have activated at that time. That's right, yeah, absolutely. And then when you change themes over now those themes are active themes. If you put styles in the parent theme, in parent theme styles.css you're in the early mode of without doubt but the ones that are made inside of work in the editor can customize it. Those are the ones that are nevulous. In the customizer though there are certain ones that you transfer. So if you change your site file it's all mixed together yeah but if you upload your logo it's in the logo. You know beyond this whole whether or not the styles.css works or not works because you can make it work in the editor and throw the call to that stylesheet in the header but even beyond that you need the child theme to be able to do customizations like through commerce and that kind of thing. So you're still going to need a child theme it just may not have some of the things you're used to having yeah you would probably use the style of your animation when you can do that but obviously you want to put your customizations in the child and you want to have a style of directory creating new files whatever you want and that will be your style of animation that I'll put them in the box and stuff like that because the new theme.json is the abstraction of their trying to merge theme styles WordPress core styles and they do this that and they're trying to take those three entry points and manipulate them or that their homes up to date are merging like you know there's an order of priority on this and they're making customizations to your applied user styles and those will persist in the data date that they'll be associated with the theme that you're having but don't you think that if you create a child theme it should respect those global styles that to me if I make a completely different theme I get it I don't expect my styles to carry over that's literally an ongoing discussion yeah some people do that I can go both ways for me right now the answer is don't even think about it just make that child theme right off the bat you have to do that because as soon as you get to the point where you need to make a child theme and you've done a bunch of work in that editor you're screwed and I was screwed I had to go back and do it all over again I had to do it for another site too so I've lost a lot of time and so I got when I saw the idea for my talk whatever it was I was in the middle of that this whole new workflow is just different I don't want to make a child theme unless I absolutely have to I don't want to do anything unless you actually force me to do it like a plug-in or like anything any kind of development I'm doing if I don't have to do it I won't but in this case it seems like I might get further on into the development of the site whether I'm going to need a child theme so I better just make one right up front and I'm going to compute myself in a plug so that was my rant I can show you if anybody's confused about some of the words the editor the global editor what theme I'm just on is this is just a back-end of WordPress on my local machine so I'll pull it open so first of all when I mentioned under appearance you used to see more stuff here you would see what would you see customize that's gone menus gone widgets gone it's all gone there's themes in editor this is just for 2023 so they didn't register that so I'm going to go to editor so once we go to that editor we see templates and template parts and these things are defined in that theme.json file like if you click these and you read these words you can actually find those if you search in your theme.json file same with the template parts these are in there so um sure so yeah this is the kind of thing that I was doing I want to put a logo here instead of the word demo so I go and edit this hit the block and I get an image if I have an image in here oh there's a logo block I'd have to upload something here's my here's my image I want to put whatever we're still here let me go back so this is the kind of stuff I was doing before I made the child theme if you call to the style.css for the child theme in this header will it work? the child theme css is called at the end of everything else so anything you put in the child theme.css the style.css wouldn't necessarily overwrite anything else that comes with it it's called like a variable so anything in the parent theme you put in anything so just to add that so anyways if I go to this is the global style editor it's under styles you know those cookies that have chocolate on one side it looks like that they're the wrong part of the black and white they're delicious yeah they don't have them a lot around here I don't find them but anyways lens are cookies either so here we see the global style editor and this is where I was doing things like I wasn't doing it with the child theme I was doing it with the parent theme and the colors like yuck let me find something a little more well along their brand or whatever it was and you save it and great and wonderful we were saying that yes you you get a t-shirt because that's what I should have done yeah I got t-shirts for you actually I told everybody you get a t-shirt but um no okay that's actually okay did you mention that Andy can you export them and we didn't know so now we know that this is what we would do I wonder what that file looks like but I don't want to get any deeper into the code let me pull open the this I'm curious to it they export the entire you're going to get 20.3 and then the theme.jcomp can modify the child theme style or rendering and then the child variation oh snap okay okay so now I can just keep plowing ahead and say mm-hmm oh really okay well maybe I'll play around with that um mm-hmm mm-hmm okay I'm sure it works and I don't even feel like I need to demo that I'm exporting it and opening it because that makes total sense so I would import here let's say so how would I import the exported theme so this exported the zip file 2023 child 2 let me put proof of concept here I'm going to go and see what this does exactly so here's my demo themes I got 2023, 2023 child and now here's the export unzipped export file 23 child 2 and let's see if it what did I do did I really do yeah you're right this could be bad I'm going to toss this one oh okay I'm totally lost let's start over here let's start over I'm going to go from scratch we're going to go back and delete all these extra themes because who cares right we're going to switch back to 2023 activate and we're going to delete this one here wait theme details mm-hmm we're going to shh delete just let me do it my way for a second that's why I'm doing this delete we're going to break it alright so here we go themes were active in the 2023 we're going to go to editor although customized that's annoying but anyways okay so look at this I was playing around earlier I made the text text green and you know I did it through the cookie and I went to the colors in the background let's make it dark and we'll save okay great save so now we've got our theme we're going to export it and see if we can import it as a child theme as a proof of concept so we're going to go to drop I mean really you want it and I saw that you had to create a copy mm-hmm okay let's delete that block that's the thing then I'm trying to like reduce the so I did have it but then I removed it because I knew it was going to cause confusion can I ask you because the part of creating the child theme is that you don't want your changes to be overwritten but these changes that you're doing is part of this 2023 theme aren't going to be overwritten in the theme of something these are just settings within the theme so the point of the child theme becomes for other customizations not for the specific styles of the website right yes so that's what I mean though, like so do we need do we need to do any styling in our CSS files I think you still need a child theme but maybe not for that right not for styling, right I think we're getting the first thing over from the theme that we need is like a dumpy code that allow you to add extra objects stuff that you wouldn't be adding to your child theme you can add in with dumpy code and snippets and then you wouldn't need to have the functions that would be for that you would have to then include the JavaScript file so that you could write the JavaScript in the child theme you can do that inside of the plugin that you need to okay that's good to know so that was WP code WP code is the name of one there's a bunch of different snippet managers essentially that allows you to add and dumpy code is pretty smart actually you can version page it if you only wanted to use the JavaScript in the drawing you can say okay that'll keep you out of having to make the whole child theme so you have to you can probably have a start a theme with that because if you're working on a theme that already exists you can add functions inside WP so that way you're just finding where somebody put changes okay so I'm just going to step back here I made my edits to my 2023 theme I'm in the editor and I'm going to the three dots and I'm going to choose export and I'm going to see if I can get this child theme so 2023.zip I'll double click it okay so 2023 I probably need to change the name I'll add child to the end and you tell me if I'm doing this come on yeah right is it a child theme? let's check let me check alright so here's 2023.2 which was the export and let's take a look and yeah so this is not a child theme this is a normal straight up theme so before I do that let me just try this going back into my theme my WP themes and is it there? 2023 and then here's 2023.2 what is it? yeah dash 2 I'll activate 2023.2 and let's see if it remembers because if I just made the child the way I've done previously and it remembers and it's not a child theme it's just its own normal theme so let's but then you don't get the advantage of say 2023 gets a new upgrade it's not the themes that would get updated and overwritten at that point it's you still need a child theme so let's take a look at that create block theme it gives you a few objects Florida the child theme when you're styling creative length and it's by wordpress.org so it's legit and we'll activate it and then we'll go back to the original 2023 theme there's a zone out here me too activate this one and then create block theme okay so here we go we can create a child of 2023 because we only want to do that because 2023 I want my upgrade I want my themed upgrade I forget and they give you really there's a lot of options there I think it's this one create a child theme of 2023 because I do want to take advantage of those okay so that seems like that's probably the best way to go sure generate and then oh specify a name team name we can't buffalo wcbuff okay delete all this really won't go in there alright blah blah blah let's generate I don't see it so here's what we get we get a style.css with safari why would I want to open it with safari I added my css template 2023 so it does rely on the parent looks like that's the way to go and what wait I didn't see that clone 2023 it did what I wanted though it did bring over the settings because clone just gives me like it doesn't you're going to see your flag background oh good question that's what you're trying to solve right yeah that's what I did I didn't activate wah wah no answer now did you see my font though that's when you would do the export of another theme and then import it into the child theme you can't import in this system you can only export and then drag it into the themes folder right but you would take the important files and dump it on top of the child theme yeah that makes sense but let's try it so let's go back to 2023 alright now when I visit my site and I refresh it looks good and then I go to crate block theme and yeah clone okay alright wc buff clone it's not going to make any child waiting you can do that on your own see that's what I want, I want a child theme I want a child theme well just put template okay yeah activate, refresh but it's not a child theme but you can go and add a template whatever just get your style make that child theme that you take the themes.json copy and paste over the top so right here I can okay well that seems like that's we're done people go home and do this everybody in the world oh yeah yeah good point let's see okay don't you think that that should be an option then in this list on the crate block theme like it should be creating clone of wc of 2023 that is also a child theme like that's what I think that way I don't have to do that wc buff bear that's what I that's why I have you do my work for me okay so it puts it in the wc buff clone styles so everything but what okay yeah 421 yeah okay yeah I don't know I think we've made very good progress today so you've all helped me let's do it let's break it alright thanks everyone see me all the way the happiness bar if you want a t-shirt see if they have an answer oh on the list there