 Yeah, first thing and thanks again so much to to Zdenka for putting this whole event together It's been quite amazing for me and for our team to meet so many in this community that are working on kind of these big issue topics in science Maybe a little bit of background to me first like as also more and more people just start coming back from lunch So my background is originally not in science, but in economics I studied at the University of St. Gallen in Switzerland and their first kind of got in touch with with Bitcoin and and Dogecoin interesting enough in early early 2013 And then kind of went through different industries, but just after high school I got really fascinated with the idea of pharmaceutical economics and how the pharmaceutical system that we've built up today and that has kind of developed over the past almost 80 years Works from a macroeconomic perspective and then kind of one of the guiding questions that I Started coming up for me again over the past year is like how can we use these really new interesting? Crypto economic designs to change industries on a massive scale So after graduating I worked in South Africa for a while worked on identity systems They started a company called linen labs. We're just today developing this protocol And also worked at a company called consensus, which is one of the largest software development companies in blockchain So my background is like I come from a tech really from a tech product development and economics background And it's been a really fascinating journey for me to dive really deeply into the scientific community And and learn about all of the different aspects of molecular biology chemical engineering Yeah, cool. So just some background So what is the what is the big overarching topic that we want to look at today or maybe a quick intro at the agenda? We're gonna look at what are the general problems that we find with intellectual property and how those problems manifest specifically in the pharmaceutical industry Then we're gonna look at how can we actually tackle these problems with token engineering? So there's been quite a bit of talk from earlier Earlier speakers today around this this overarching topic of token engineering I'm gonna give you guys a brief intro to to molecule Just from a high-level perspective. What are our goals? Then we're gonna intro a curation markets using curation markets one of these crypto economic designs for IP We're gonna look at a specific concept called token bonding curves So really diving a bit deeply in one new design model and how we can use that How we combine that with crypto kitties actually And then we look at curation markets and pharma and some of the core architecture and the challenges that we're that we're dealing with in that concept cool So a large part of pharmaceutical or like of general innovation is based on patents So this was the first patent that was ever issued You can't see it on there, but take a guess how old it is does anyone know when the first patent was ever issued? Yeah, okay, so I'm ready cool. So it was in the United States in 1790 this is when we kind of started with a legal system around patents this particular patents was issued for a Production mechanism for pot ash, which was used in infertilizes and it was actually underwritten by George Washington the president at the time But there's been extremely little innovation in how we actually distribute and deal with patents Um, and today there's a lot of problems with how patents work So patents are justified in the way that they allow people to recuperate investments into technology and science, but what how they how that recuperation that works is It creates a monopoly and that monopoly leads to we've seen this like it with leads to patent trolls It leads to price gouging on consumers. So these extremely high prices for for drugs That we that we see in certain economies and it also leads to none a non collaborative scientific ecosystem So because patents are now being developed in secret because everyone is trying to create a monopoly That doesn't actually create an environment that incentivizes open-source information sharing So that's kind of one of the root big problems that we see with with IP and this the system has hardly evolved Over over the years. It's just gotten more and more legally complex But the underlying economics of it hasn't changed a patent is a monopoly enforced by the violence of the state so to speak What are the big problems in pharma at the same time? So current IP development and research and development in big pharma companies is closed source and Intransparent one of the biggest problems with interinspirancy is the negative data problem Which probably many of you know from other scientific areas. There's no incentive to publish negative data Because if I'm a pharma company and I commission a study to be For someone to create about my drug if it's if this drug is positive or not If the if the outcome is negative, I have no incentive to publish that because why should I tell people I'm developing a bad drug To that then it's non collaborative by nature so each company has to work by themselves and then to create these monopolies and The monopolies essentially almost distributed between 10 major pharma companies across the globe which have collectively have the financial power To take drugs to market Pharma today and this has been set up with the past 10 years is in an innovation crisis It's extremely resource intensive the average cost to bring any drug to market today is two and a half billion dollars So if you if you go to a hospital and you get a drug there Describe by your doctor the cost of bringing that to market was two and a half billion on average It's very risky only about 1% of compounds that ever enter clinical studies actually make it to market It's even extremely high attrition rate. It's very slow. It takes 10 to 15 years to develop a drug and And on top of that now the return for R&D. So we're investing these billions of dollars and the return is 3.2 percent That that's from a statistic that came out last year and The reason for that is in my opinion is because it's driven by these research monopolies and it's it's non open source on on top of that Because the whole way the system works its revenue driven innovation so the drugs that pharmaceutical companies want to bring to market Need to make revenue And there was a very interesting article by Goldman Sachs that came out earlier this year Titled is curing patients is a sustainable business model. It's not Obviously for if you're operating a giant company, you need to you need to have consumers for the drugs that you create and historically we've seen We've seen that Some of the drugs that pharma companies bring to market actually lead to public health crises One of the best recent examples is the opioid crisis prescription opioids in the US which per annum kill 72,000 people in the United States And this is by drugs that are being brought to market and and sold by pharma And it's not it's like it's not that those drugs are inherently bad But if we could bring better drugs to market that would create less consumers that would be a bad thing for revenue And one example there to bring is like let's say we had a painkiller that people only had to take once every two weeks And it was non-addictive and it was very cheap to produce Yay, but that would be a terrible drug to bring to market And so if we look at the innovation cycle that that pharma creates like essentially those 10 companies can control What what comes to market collectively? And and I think that's a problem like I think that's a huge problem If you think that the underlying goal here is to like to make give healthier lives to people and prolong people's lives So what is molecule protocol a brief intro molecule is an open-source ecosystem to incentivize Decentralized research and development in compounds and drugs. So primary driver. How can we incentivize the decentralized development of these things? Secondly, it's a market-making platform for price discovery and funding of chemical IP to crowdsource the most valuable Compounds for humankind. I just you think back a little bit if you have an open-source system People should would allocate rationally to the drugs that make the most sense Which currently isn't the case because it's closed So at its core the goals of the protocol are to distribute cost risk and the ownership of intellectual property Because all that that drug development is essentially is creating data About whether a specific compound is effective or not in the human body or it can do a specific thing It's just data creation about IP that belongs to someone and then the regulator approves the drug So what we want to move to is incentivize collaboration openness and and competition in this market and much more economic efficiency And ultimately what we're trying to build is an ecosystem that everyone can actually benefit from so from the patients that take these drugs To the researchers that produce them To investors that invest in pharma companies to the pharma companies themselves because as we've just seen Like the numbers are pretty horrific if you think about how much innovation they produce with these giant construct constructs So it sounds too good to be true. It's like we create we want to create a win-win ecosystem But we actually think we've found a way to potentially make that possible and so We started by asking like by you applying mechanism design Which is an engineering practice that's widely used in across a bunch of different field But is now really popping up in the field of crypto economics And what you kind of do is you start by asking what are the principal stakeholders in an ecosystem like this? And from our side, it's it's pretty simple. It's IP creators So IP creators would be biotech companies a researcher that discovers a new compound or even a large-scale pharma company It's someone who creates a new thing Then it's data producers So people who produce data about whether a drug is effective or not or whether a chemical compound can achieve what it What it says what it might potentially do then you have the regulators and verifies Which need to make sure that the data submitted about the IP is is good and whether it like serves the purpose and is not harmful to people Then you have the consumers which which take drugs at the end of the day Which need cures for for all kinds of various diseases and then you have the investors which make the whole funding Situation possible that we've talked about so much today So the key engineering question for us were what what do these stakeholders want? What behavior should they have and how can we change that behavior using incentive design? How do we get stakeholders to behave differently Demy said it quite nicely yesterday is like blockchain has a superpower to like incentivize behavior And we do that using a principle called crypto economics more broadly But you can only engineer you can only create economics through engineering in this in this principle So one of the subsets here is curation markets Which is a new crypto economic principle primitive that's kind of come up over the last two years It's still fairly new. There's a lot of experimentation happening the backgrounds of curation markets actually for trading It was pioneered by someone called Simon de la Ruvia to trade memes. So funny pictures on the internet And how do we how do we cure it the most the funniest pictures? And actually have people investing in those pictures, but the background is now Why don't we cure it the best the best valuable compounds? I mean have people invest in those compounds So this is one of the building blocks and something important to know. These are still experiments and not blueprints for for design So just briefly what is what is the concept of token engineering? So token engineering is a combination of systems and mechanism design plus software engineering patterns It's the rigorous design analysis and verification of systems like an industry And then assisted by tools that reconcile theory with practice It's also a responsibility So engineering as an engineer who has to build a bridge He an engineer that builds a bridge is ethically responsible for building a good bridge that doesn't collapse We unfortunately saw some of that recently. I think in Italy But so it's it's you need to be ethically conscious when building and engineering these systems and something important It's not token economics So token economics is like how might might these tokens behave and maybe make investors money token engineering is about How do we actually build the system that that can allow these new interactions? Cool, what a curation markets curation markets are so this is a quote from sam did it with it They would use information asymmetry in the market through the usage of novels skin in the game signals generated through the use of tokenized Crypto economic incentive games, okay long phrase, but it's basically just saying put your money where your mouth is And and have the market kind of curate information About what might be valuable and what's what's less valuable? We see something like this in the stock market today people putting in making investments But we there's much more in much more efficient ways to design these systems So basically you put your money where your mouth is you stake value or attention It could even be reputation into markets. They will believe will be more valuable And the market's currency now becomes a proxy for attention. That means the more stake is allocated in something the more We can see collectively that people are paying attention to it in the in the context of a compound this would literally imagine you had Tenth of thousands of investable compounds and now we can actually see as soon as market activity starts happening In any of them and early rewarders are adopted for for for early. Yeah for getting an early This is done using Most easily done using something called a token bonding contract It's a fairly simple concept once you rep you had about it It's a smart contract that can be deployed in various blockchains most commonly on a theorem It's a smart contract that accepts collateral so dollars or other digital assets in exchange for tokens of its denomination So dollar goes in token comes out token goes in dollar comes out and and that is essentially that relationship is governed by by a curve That's one example of what occurs could look like you have the price and the supply It's a simple supply curve So you have to imagine as more people start buying in early into the asset they are proportionately rewarded for adopting the asset early But what this now essentially is it's an economic. It's an automatic. It's an automated market mechanism Where we can trade attention in a specific asset In this example, this is a quadratic curve Essentially how you how you would code this contract is Totally up to the creator, but obviously you need to code it in a way that would make Would make economic sense Something that's really important. This is not an issuing or an ICO because No one gets the money in the contract the contract basically people allocate collateral in what they think makes sense And the contract holds that collateral and issues them tokens back and they can sell back and forth to the contract at any time Yeah, if you're interested in these concepts more broadly, I think they have a they could have a host of applications in this ecosystem Some of the best work as I said is from Simon to La Ruvia, but if you Google token bonding curve, there's a host of host of good articles on right now Okay, so then a second really interesting concept that has popped up in the in the crypto space Are these cute fairy creatures? How many how many of you know what a crypto kitty is more or less? Okay, okay, so actually most of the audience great So crypto kitties are essentially just our digital cats They're created using a system called non-fungible tokens non-fungible token basically just means you can't divide it It's like a singular entity and now What it is on the other side you so you have this token and you attach it to a link to IPFS Which is then the picture of the cat and that's the whole magic But people got super excited about this it actually to the point where the whole ethereum blockchain slowed down Significantly and no one else could use it because everyone was trading these these cats It was a hype, but I think there's a much deeper thing here Which is namely like why don't we attach patents to these things? So IP is usually based on patents and it's proprietary data timestamp a timestamp claim We can do that pretty easily so we can do we take the information the data in a pattern and we attach it to an NFT But what we then and like so instead of having a crypto kitty You could have a fusion reactor design attached or or a molecule and what we then do we combine these two principles So this is where token engineering gets fun. We now say this this NFT is owned by this token bonding curve And what now means now we can actually trade shares using this market mechanism in a crypto kitty or in a patent for a molecule or a fusion reactor I'm sure there's many other use cases to think of and we can trade attention in Like in kind of this combination that we've made And I want to get to this first so in our context if you think about this now it's like you if with a digital cat You own the digital cat But now if you give the ownership of the cat or or the patent away to a smart contract you don't own it anymore and But now no one owns it and and so this was something for me to wrap my head around and Trent McConaughey Was based in Berlin in front of the ocean protocol It's done a lot of thinking about this It's like as it's starting to own themselves if no one owns the compound anymore because we put it in this market And now people trade shares in that compound if they kind of start owning themselves and It's a conceptual thing, but yeah, they essentially can own themselves and so what does this enable for for Scientists more broadly or like how can you use this as a funding mechanism because I know funding is a is a big topic in This community So now using these token bonding curves we can have a price discovery and market making mechanism We can have a liquidity mechanism. So whoever creates the curve can allocate himself Can allocate himself a small share of the initial market and now once there's attention in whatever research or whatever Combine for example, he's developing that provides a way to get liquidity because that person can now send back tokens to the contract to get Out liquidity So funding can be obtained back by selling tokens to the market and it's a model that actually still works with traditional equity financing So now instead of saying I own I own this whole patent in a monopoly You can say I own 30% of this market that is gaining more and more attention Yeah, so this enables a whole this could enable a whole bunch of things named But specifically offloading IP and getting attention for IP and getting liquidity for that IP And no one can own IP fully anymore or or capitalize on it What it also does and this is what I find really interesting it incentivizes open source data publishing Because if I know let's say I'm a researcher and I can purchase shares in a compound Or maybe even in a research that I'm interested in I can buy myself into this market And now if I create positive data about it or even negative data that will influence the market So now I have a way to get involved in the research about projects and and I'm incentivized to publish publish data about it Yeah, sorry we had that and so how How is this applicable with innovation in generally or with drug development like IP and ideas generally go through this long like Innovation cycle and the innovation cycle if you put that over drug development You have the discovery stage where you have potentially thousands of different compounds And then you have pre-clinical phase one phase two phase three and then the approval of a drug That exact process is is essentially just an innovation process of creating a funnel and narrowing down things that that have the biggest potential and How this is currently done is is centralized within companies Obviously, it's going to cost a lot of money to do that But if you curate that information from the crowd and if you open source that information we think that could lead to Yeah to to complete new ecosystem and industry Specifically in the in the in the chemical industry People have asked us like isn't this more broadly applicable. I think it is so I think it's a very interesting concept But and like yeah, please please go on and explore. We need more people experimenting with these ideas So but one big question is how do we actually map innovation? And there's something called it's we so we are looking at implementing this using sigmoid curves Which is an S-shaped curve and it's best suited for markets that stabilize after a certain growth point And so let's let's just assume and this is more like like of an experiment Let's assume we mapped we mapped open innovation and pharma using a sigmoid curve like this And what you would have is basically you would have people buying in selling in and out of the market all along the curve contributing capital and And enabling people to get funding We kind of just discussed this before like what does it mean for the IP creator? So an IP creator has Conset himself an initial creator stake in a market And at a later point once people start staking attention and value into it He can sell a part of a stake basically diluting himself further to get funding out of the market And So what is the how are we applying this? I just want to walk you through like a very simplified user flow Of like how would this actually all be possible in the real world because it can seem it can seem a little daunting So what you do is you have a chemical patent as a researcher and you move that patent into a structure called a patent investment trust So now you already say I don't own it anymore The trust owns it and then you attach that patent data. So the markers structure of a compound to a non-fungible token The trust then creates illegal contract that says our assets are now being managed by this specific token And then you set the owner address of that non-fungible token to the bonding curve And then you would set a creator stake So the trust would now receive a certain amount of tokens because it it created the IP and it now relinquishes the ownership of it and then from that point onwards essentially you've created an open source open market for anyone to start buying in and out of that that asset and Let's say everything goes well Upon once FDA approval comes through the drug actually goes to market all of the token holders who purchased shares and attention in this market Can now be paid out by the trust for example in royalties So if a company then comes along and says we would now want to produce this They need to license it from the trust and pay royalties to the trust the trust can recompensate those token holders I think we had a great legal talk earlier. So this is This is a security token. We're not talking here about like like like essentially we're owning We're issuing ownership in intellectual property But we're creating a huge distribution of that Yeah, these are some of the core components So we have an access layer of how people can actually get into the protocol Then compounds need to be approved So you can't just put anything on there like you need like it needs to be verified that you are the actual owner of this IP That it's been placed into the trust So it's not like people can put all their IP on this tomorrow Like there needs to be a process in order for the whole system to work because otherwise you're dabbling in these legal gray areas And then you have an NFT factory that creates these NFTs then You create a compound market and ideally in the end the the tokens that get issued by the compound contract and moved into production contract Where you can then talk about license rights or that ultimately then also depends on how the actual drug Will go to market I'm a big fan of doge. I think any any crypto or blockchain Presentation always needs to have a doge but there is a very high level of complexity that we're dealing here and a lot of Math involved in setting up these Kurds in a correct way something that is really cool though is there's Probably 80 years of data about producing compounds about the valuation around patents around what these markets could Could grow to like and what the ultimate prices of the broad drugs will be so it's not like we're dabbling in a completely unknown field with Yeah with economics that are not known, but yeah, we still need a lot of economic modeling One thing I think that we really want to figure out. So this is a pure IP funding model What we haven't taken in this yet is like, how can we get grand systems in there? for Yeah, for like for for rare diseases, for example Or for drugs that are like for diseases that are not where there's no big industry incentive to treat these The great thing about this though with an open market structure like this like anyone can now come in if you if you know someone who Has a rare disease or you've been afflicted by someone in your family like you can actually get involved in these markets You can invest you can say I'm allocating capital to something that I think should be researched So it's a democratization of scientific development for pharma There is governance mechanisms to figure out like once the compound comes to market how like how do you actually structure governance around this? Around around managing the IP that needs to be a board and the trust so on and so forth So a lot of legal complexity is still to figure out But as I said, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel We can actually it was something that we realized as we started building this out There's a lot of existing market structures that we can mirror that exist today So there's a there's a concept for example called called royalty funds So these are funds that purely invest in patents to get royalty payments from them And so we're getting into this more and more and realizing. Hey, there's all these existing structures But using using a token engineered systems. We can make these structures much more efficient Cool, so maybe just a quick click. I don't know how I'm doing on time. Am I So good. Okay, cool Where we are where we today so this protocol is being developed by by our development company Which is Lindemax AG based in Switzerland Ultimately the whole ecosystem and the open-source IP will be managed by a Non-profit foundation in Switzerland, which will oversee the project's long-term research Funding and and development. We're currently about a 10-person team working working on this. We have a team of five developers We're onboarding. We're onboarding different advisors We have a lot of the blockchain architecture build out and once we did that We basically realized wait wait wait before we go deeper into this area into the token engineering and incentive design We need to build a user interface and like actually figure out how people went to act with us if our assumptions are correct What these markets are gonna look like? So that's one really big focus for us now And then building a lot of partnerships with different academic institutions with the industry with with think tanks Yeah, to really start getting a lot of feedback on on the big vision that we're that we're creating Yeah, what do we need to make this a reality you? So I've met a lot of amazing scientists here from all different fields Working with academic institutions having experience in pharma Yeah, so we want it We really want to build up these relationships at this point We see this as an as an as an ecosystem like we're not developing We're developing this right now as a company But everything will ultimately be managed by by a foundation and there we need a lot of buy-in and support Because this is a system that will only work as with many blockchain systems If if all participants are incentivized and and feel feel that this really benefits them And this is one big challenge I think that we've had with like or that we've already seen talking with pharma companies that they're very quickly interested Who else are we talking to? And they they kind of want to Yeah, like it sends negative signals to the market if you affiliate yourself too strongly with with single players Yeah, we're looking for advisors team members collaborators anyone who wants to brainstorm with us around this people specifically with background in patent law pharma biotech obviously And we really want to build a community around open source IP in science Because there's a large field here that we can we can figure out So join our discussion on telegram slack connect with our team Yeah, and I'd love to maybe if some of you didn't understand some of the concepts yet That I explained earlier. I kind of went through maybe too quickly like I think we maybe still have time for for questions Yeah You would need the pattern first, but now it's the pattern itself becomes open source in a way Because you now have more you can have any stakeholder buying into the pattern and the creator of the pattern doesn't own it anymore so the creator says Have let let let society decide let the market decide what this is worth And that then incentivizes open source data creation about that pattern. Do you want to follow up? Okay Yeah, but you can buy you can buy fractional ownership in it, which is totally impossible today. Thank you So how do the token holders? Decide on whether to and under which conditions to license the patent Good question. So One way that we thought about doing this is that there is a board in the trust So remember that remember this this trust might be super inactive if someone if it's a market that never gets traded a lot Of patents never find a use in the world But if if there is a lot of market activity in that in that trust initially you would probably define With certain token holderships you might have a board seat in the trust Which means because you're a big stakeholder in this specific patent You would then have a board in the trust and ultimately if a drug comes to market or if a chemical finds a Finds an industry use that trust board because they're now they now have ownership over a lot of assets And it's a big thing they would then decide on how to license it Yeah, I wanted to ask about the bonding curve when once it's set is there a possibility to change it Yeah, also what happens? Does it just at the end does it continue or can you like shut it? Yeah So there's from an open perspective. There's different models to implement it So some some people have been experimenting with infinite bonding curves So technically if the if the interest in something is infinite, then it just gives keeps on forever Our model is using like a finite token supply So at some point the curve finishes and then it's issued all of its token And if then the the demand for that thing is higher those tokens will be traded on secondary market Yeah, so then the token becomes freely tradable What what the what the bonding curve basically acts as is an is an early-stage price discovery mechanism You could also say we're only having this bonding curve until We get approval for preclinical studies or until we get approval for clinical studies And then we evaluate the whole market size Because the information that emerges with that might completely change the outcome And so then you actually work in in like different different funding stages Where after an initial stage you might then say cool now we're redefining we're redefining what this market looked like Very nice Concept and ideas, but I would like to know have you made any kind of a research about how the industry is open to those ideas because That industry is known to be very conservative and very closed as just probably said also Did you make any to talk to people about would there be any openness about even to get started or absolute So from from researchers that so we talked to researchers that create IP and one big problem that they have is and within five years A department where researchers working or even an individual might have created five to ten to fifteen patents But he only has he only has time and funding to look at one of them and maybe one of them actually turns into a company So you have all this IP sitting around so that's one big use case for them So research is from a funding perspective because now they can say cool I'll put it on there because I know I'm not going to develop this I mean I don't have the time But now I have liquidity to get to get funding out of those markets and I can I can give those IP I can leave that IP to be developed by the market in whoever finds value in it and your second question was from a from a farmer perspective farmer as a whole knows that it has a deep innovation problem and Those that those problems are like are structural. I think macroeconomic problems So the response that we've had is Is positive? I think it's for them. It takes a lot of What it takes a lot of talking to understand how how structurally? This may change their market and what we're trying to do But overall the response has been very positive specifically from research that is saying look if you can help us get funding through this mechanism and Allow us to offload our IP the same for biotech companies biotech companies That have done an IPO often only often have multiple patents, but they only have time to take one drug to market So what we see in this as well is really a system to incentivize the unleashing of Our pharmaceutical IP that that isn't being developed the same one I think the same way for large pharmaceutical companies who only have so much funding to take individual compounds through markets But are sitting on a big pile of IP that they essentially might not be monetizing So what they can use the protocol for is to because they know how much has been invested And they have a good sense of what they value this IP to be and if you create an if you allow them to create an open-source market for it That actually create liquidity Creates liquidity for them and ultimately it's good for them because they can put those assets on their balance sheet Which is good for their stock price to like to turn it Yeah I really love this portrait. It's cool. I would like to see it for more things than just molecules, right? Just molecule in pair sentences. Yeah. Well, so one thing so our focus is really on chemical chemical IP because it's deterministic In terms of what it what chemicals do what chemical structures do But I think this is applicable in a lot more fields I've realized from building startups and from working at startups that like Pick your market and do that well And we we think this is a market that we can serve an enormous amount of amount of problems And I think each of those each market is unique Is unique as well, but I could see these same principles And that's why I try to hold it keep it up a general these same principles being used in a wide variety of applications potentially I mean we brainstormed about it like if you completely make it independent from patterns and IP as It's a traditional way and then more go more to me my markets that they like we have like this idea And you can I invest in this idea and this crazy new concept that I'm like doing research on yeah Yeah, maybe this would be a way of like having the Mima markets effects for research idea to incentivize early ideas very early on Yeah, and investing in it I think ultimately if if systems like this take off it could replace because the pattern in this whole system is Just a legal structure to make it work in the existing system Like I mean ultimately this could lead completely a way to why do we need patterns in the first place because we can time stamp it And we can create a verifiable market that is that is yeah that anyone can invest in and contribute to to an idea Yeah, great. Thanks a lot again. Cool representation. Thanks everyone