 Yeah, if you look at any peer-reviewed science, eating dietary cholesterol raises your blood cholesterol, builds up in your arteries, okay. If you read an article where they're trying to go eggs are healthy, you know, they might have some bullshit in there but that's not backed by any scientific literature, okay. So this is consensus that cholesterol is causing heart disease. I think smoking cigarettes can raise your cholesterol as well, okay, but mainly it's from eating cholesterol, okay. So if you've got a high cholesterol, you lower your cholesterol bar when you stop consuming it, okay. And there's no cholesterol in any food, no cholesterol only comes from so fish, squid, dairy milk, eggs, flesh. It's an animal, it derives from animals. We produce our own cholesterol in our body as well. So if I had a PCU, you know, probably have some cholesterol in it as well. And if I ate enough for use, I'd probably die of a heart attack, okay. So I don't think we're designed to be eating each other or other animals, yeah. You've seen me on YouTube, so you're not vegan. I'm not a vegan though. Oh wow, okay. I think that video is quite interesting. Oh wow, so you know about Challenge 22 and stuff, obviously if you watch my videos. Is this one right now? Or is it Challenge 22? Challenge 22. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why don't you try it? If you've seen me on my videos and you've just met me in real life. Do you know what it is though, right? I think there's the feel sort of vegan thing, quite interesting, but I don't, I don't use it when I eat tea or that sort of thing. I don't feel, I wouldn't feel sad to kill an animal either. You wouldn't feel sad, okay. What type of animal? A dog, not a dog. Okay, okay, so why not? Why would you feel sad if I killed a dog in front of you? Yeah. Why? It's my favorite animal. Okay, so based on your little arbitrary decision-making there, it's your favorite animal, so therefore it has more moral value than the other animal? For me, yeah. So, or do you think inherently the dog doesn't want to die, they suffer, they feel pain, okay, and that's why you don't want to die? Is it just because of your own preference? Because I could like you more than I like him and then be like, okay, you know what I'm saying? That wouldn't, that's not how we determine morals in society, is it? No. Okay, so there's a reason why you like dogs more, and that's because, you know, you probably, you probably met a few dogs in society, we care about dogs, you've been programmed to say these animals are food, who cares about them, I've eaten them before, and that's just basically speciesism, you know what that is, yeah? Yeah, it's like racism, where you discriminate over race, except you, you have, I had it too, even when I first went vegan. I'd feel more upset seeing dogs being butchered alive than I would seeing a fish being dragged out the ocean. Okay, and I'd have to analyse that part of my psychology and go, wait a second, why do I care more about that dog than I do about that fish? Do you think it's by desire, do you think you just, you were born like this, or do you think it's something you were taught? Not to care about some animals and to care about others? Have to have learned that from somewhere, bro. But that's why you look at it through the animals' eyes when you're having an issue of ethics, you say, okay, if I'm gonna, okay, that human being over there, that he's not me, what do I give a shit about him? Okay, just whoever, whatever happens to him happens, okay, so I'm gonna go around hurting other human beings that I don't really care about, that I don't really know, or do you think, okay, I'm a human being, I know what it's like to suffer, I don't want to put them through unnecessary suffering, so I won't, it's called empathy, yeah? So you look at issues of injustice through the victim's eyes, not through your own lens of like speciesism. So you say, the fish is that a real fish? Yeah, yeah, well it's basically just a way to, it's a, you can look it up. No, I just mean as an actual. Yeah, it is a thing, man. Well, because it exists in you. The evidence is right here. You say you wouldn't feel bad killing and eating an animal, you said that, yeah? But then I said, what about a dog? So you're selecting which animals you wouldn't feel bad about and that's something you've been, you've learned. Yeah. Yeah, so you've just, you've just proved speciesism in yourself. I think it's a bit of a, it's a bit, how much, how coarse are you though? In China, they don't give a shit about dogs bro, do they? They just like chuck them in a cage, cut their paws off while they're still conscious, boil them in a big tank of water. They look at dogs like a lobster, full of lobster alive. There's food to them, but not to you because you come from a different culture, so you've learned this behavior. But the dog just wants to live just as much as the pig, as the fish, as the chicken. What would you, if I was to try some, maybe eating recipes or, yeah, like see one person in there. Oh, you're on YouTube? I will just let you YouTube. You're a bodybuilder? Do you do weights or anything? Yeah, I do weights. Okay, so you've got like Brian Turner. These are two bodybuilders, they do epic food. Brian Turner does a lot of the mock meats and stuff like that. In the UK, you've got Sainsbury's, you've got Tesco's, you've got everything in there, man. And if you do challenge 22, they mentor you. Like you say, okay, what can I get here? And they'll say, try these soy milk, rice milk, almond milk, oat milk. Find the one you like. If you don't like soy, try rice milk. If you don't like rice, try coconut milk. There's about 20 in there, man. You don't really want to be drinking hormones, cholesterol, pass and blood from the utter of a mother who's lost their child. You're a grown man. You don't want stuff growing inside of you from hormones. You don't want lumps growing in your prostate. That's what drinking mammalian hormones does. Cheese, you know, find a good one. Vegan cheese. What's a good vegan cheese here in Scotland? Viola. Restaurants, do you have Happy Cow? Happy Cow here applies, doesn't it? Happy Cow? Give it a crack, bros. No worries. Just remember those animals in your stomach, in your stomach, when there's flesh in your stomach, those animals didn't want to die and their resting place is in your bowels. So think about that. You'll hear it all the time, but I do think of it as a wicked and old duffel. In order of the food chain. Oh, so that's, so human superiority? Superior. And what makes us as superior? Our intelligence? Intelligence for one, yeah. OK. Do you know there's things a fish can do that you can't do? That's not intelligence. They have a sixth sense. You know, they can feel things in the water without even looking at them. Yeah, but that's not intelligence. OK, I'll tell you an experiment. It's called the Coloured Plate experiment. OK, done with like fish people eat, so trout and stuff like that. OK, and they also had primates in the other control group. So two plates, red and yellow one, they had food on each plate. The animals had to learn to eat off one coloured plate first, or the other plate would disappear. So if they have the yellow plate, both plates would stay. If they had the red plate, one plate would disappear. OK, so they have to learn that behaviour. The eating fish, the trout and stuff did better than their primates. OK, so the scientist enlisted the help of his four-year-old daughter. OK, the fish bet his four-year-old daughter. Now, when we say the fish, in that experiment, were more intelligent than his four-year-old daughter, therefore those fish have more moral value over his four-year-old daughter. So she should be in the pot on steam. No. Do you know what I'm saying? So there's different types of intelligence. OK, so when you start comparing human intelligence to a fish's intelligence or human intelligence to animals, we don't really understand how they think, do we? We just say, oh, they're not like us, so they're dumb. But let's just say they were dumb. Does intelligence justify immoral treatment? So you've got mentally retarded children, OK? They don't have the mental capacity of a baby, some of them. Would that justify immoral treatment? Enslavement? So your logic has to be consistent. You can't just say, oh, we're superior so we can do whatever we want. You know, there's people in history that had that same view on different races. Yeah? Yep. So you have to be consistent with your logic. You can't say it's OK for some animals and not OK for those animals. We're just making arbitrary choices based on your programming. OK. Would you agree with that? Intelligence doesn't determine moral treatment, does it? Well, if you look at the line we're asking for in the wild, that's just an order, the order of how it eats. No, that's a survival situation. That's not order. So the line is doing that to survive, OK? You don't have to do that to survive. I don't have to. No, no, no. But the line does have to. That would die. No, but that's just what I meant by the order. It's not really order. It's just survival, OK? The line is a natural carnivore. They don't possess something called moral agency, OK? They can't be held accountable for their actions. You can. You know right from wrong, yeah? You're not doing it to survive. If you were, I wouldn't be standing here and saying, hey, if you had to eat a fish to survive, I wouldn't, I probably wouldn't, but I wouldn't stand beside you and say you should die. You know, if you ate your own dog to survive, I wouldn't stand beside in front of you either, OK? But you probably wouldn't. You probably wouldn't. OK, you probably wouldn't, OK? See, that's inconsistency as well. So, the lines are doing to survive, you're not a line, OK? And we've got alternatives. OK. Would you agree or you can not agree? No, do I have a turn to Jeff? Yeah, you don't have to agree with me. No, no, I do. I do. OK. The problem is, like, as much as, as much sense as you make, nothing in my brain's going, I've got empathy and not care of fish now. Yeah, how old are you? You're 30? 26. 26. The beard makes you look older. But. What is your? What is your? 30. I'm 30. That's what I thought we might be the same age. So, 26 years of conditioning, fish or food, cows or food, pigs or food. And you're not going to just, it's not going to unravel in one conversation, but after watching a few videos, you've got a lot of conditioning. A lot of society has conditioned you, your parents have, tradition. It's on TV, constantly getting advertised. Oh, meat, burgers, burgers, food, food. You don't see slaughterhouses constantly like I do. You don't see animals and fish suffering constantly like I do. You don't see people in hospitals filled up because they're eating bacon, getting heart disease. Like, these things come to you in time and you slowly start to wake up. This conversation might just be a big seed in your mind and you start thinking for yourself. Have your own independent thought. Don't listen to what's going on on your TV, brother. Cool. Thank you.