 All right. It is now 330 and we will begin our meeting. May we please call roll? Chair Rogers. Present. Member Stack. Here. Member McDonald. Let the order reflect that all subcommittee members are present with the exception of member McDonald. Perfect. Thank you. Moving on to item two, which is our public comment on non agenda matters and I will hand it over. We'll do Husky be first. Oh, sorry. Welcome subcommittee members, members and members of the public. Thank you for joining us in person and via zoom. This meeting is being recorded. A reminder to all present to set yourself home so as not to serve others. The city of Santa Rosa is committed to providing a safe and inclusive environment free from disruption and will not tolerate painful speech or actions. Everyone is expected to participate respectfully or necessary to the meeting will end immediately. We have provided a hard copy of today's agenda. Please feel free to use one to follow along by the door. After an agenda item has been presented, the chair will ask the subcommittee members for their comments or questions and then immediately following their discussion. The chair will open the item for public comment. If you are attending in person and wish to comment, you will be called on when the agenda item is open for public comment. Please raise your hand indicate that you would like to comment. Once you've been called upon, you will be asked if you wish to state your name for the record. Each public comment is limited to three minutes and a courtesy timer will appear my desk. If you do not have a comment but would like to ask a question relevant to the jurisdiction of the subcommittee. There are forms located at the entrance of the conference room. Please complete the form and leave it in the basket and the staff leaders on will address your questions appropriately prior to the next schedule meeting. For our meeting format is integrated to allow members of the public who are using zoom to view and listen to the meeting. Any email comments that are received by the deadline will have been included and uploaded to the agenda prior to the start of today's meetings and the email received are not read into the record. We will now have our public comments and non agenda matters. Is there anyone in the public that is wishing to make a comment? Seeing no one in the public that is wishing to make a comment. We will now move to item three, which is available at the minutes reflection that 3.1 February 8, 2024 and March 14, 2024 were canceled and the subcommittee did not meet. So we will go to item 3.2, which is a special meeting that was held on January 25, 2024, and I will look to vice mayor step to see if he had any corrections minutes. All right, so we will now take public comment on item three. Is there anyone in the public that is wishing to make a comment on the minutes that are before us. Seeing none. The minutes will be approved. Moving on to item 4.1, which is the Bennett Valley golf course operations overview and update. And I will pass it on to Jen Santos. Thank you chair. I'm Jen Santos deputy director of recreation parks. And for the record, yes, Scott Wagner deputy director of finance. And then I also have with me, our executive members of touchstone. Reg Anderson general manager. Mark Elizabeth and the president of touchstone. And James virtual vice president of operations. Right. Oh, oops. Next one. Yes. So this just a look at what we're going to be talking about today. We'll look at the debt service for the golf course. Look at general fund assistance. The golf course has received early years. And then we're going to look at touchstones current budget and the previous budget and the current budget mid year and then the proposed budget. And we'll look at the rate increases that we're proposing for fiscal year 2425 and go over the capital projects. And I think everybody knows where the golf course is, but just a quick reminder, it's an 18 hole golf course with a restaurant event center golf pro shop driving range and a maintenance yard. And I'll put a reminder in that our operator touchstone golf was approved and started operations on July 1, 2022. Next slide please. So when we look at the debt service. Why we have debt service at the golf course is because in 2004 slash five. The city undertook some major renovations at the golf course. And those included a new restaurant event center and then underneath that is the golf cart staging area and parking area and then also a new pro shop and some other updates from from in those buildings as well. And so, since then we've paid a debt service for the bonds and loans we have taken up to construct that. And it's around $450,000 a year it fluctuates, you can see in the in the chart over the years but it's generally around $450,000 a year the golf course bonds which is the bar on the top are those. And, you know, in my mind is the loan we have I don't know Scott if you have a better way of describing it that's more financially accurate. So the top lines we're looking at here are really what we'll call bonds that they are the formal bonds that were issued for the construction of those two facilities. And below the wine here we're talking about an inner interphone loan that came from park development fees that people all had discussions at that council before about, but that is the secondary line where we do record that on our city's financials it is properly recorded like any other legally binding debt, although it's held within the city's funds. Right, so you can see that you know we're going to be paying us off relatively soon in 2030. We'll see how much it is for the next few years and then our total for the bonds is 3,129,847 and 50 cents. And then the interphone loan which is the loan we took out against park development impact fees is the is $505,955 and 60 cents. So that's the total we owe right now and then the big total is the 3,635,083 and 10 cents so that's our debt service right now. We are working to gain enough revenues to make sure that we are paying those debt services as we go. Next slide please. And we talked about what sort of assistance has golf enterprise received over the years. And if you look all the way all the way to your left in fiscal year 2013 14. There was a transfer $469,165 and 80 cents. And those are really that is a time where we were looking at diminishing return so to speak is probably not the right language but we the golf course need a little bit of help to get through and to get through the next year. We also had in the following year $471,801 transferred from the general fund to the Bennett Valley Golf to pay for the debt service and the general fund golf course and so those are those debt services that we just looked at so that fund those monies were able to help back in 2014 and 15. And since then it's been a while, the golf course has been moving along with this with that interjection of funds and in 2021 and 22 we had a $350,000 interjection when we were looking before touchstone was coming on and as they were coming on to make sure we increase the reserve balance as touchstone was coming on we were projecting higher reservation higher revenues and there's a higher risk so we know we needed a higher level of reserves and they're as a buffer for the golf course. And I was going to say how would you like to describe that I probably add to because I want this slide to really convey a couple of different messages and and really when we look at the past 2013 14 and you see those and you know infusions of money from the general fund. One I want to bring up that the golf course insolvency is not something that happened in 21 22 that this has been a longer term problem. And what I'll bring up because I remember those years here at the city is that those infusions really were to solve an insolvency issue at the course, not to provide the necessary upkeep on the course not to whatever. And at that point the, the fund was essentially zero, and it had been run into the ground I would say financially over a period, I think, I will say that after that point, what what I'm really glad we're here discussing this because I don't want the golf course to be a, we, you know, we have to do one year and then we forget about it on those years with zeros and pretend that everything is now fine at the golf course. We need to have a more consistent approach and we need to be bringing this information to you all. Make sure that it is at the forefront of an understanding instead of us coming back later and asking for millions of dollars from the general fund. So that's the message to be given here in that insolvency, nothing occurred, a little bit of shore up of that reserves in 21 22, and then our 23 24 as you know, a large capital amount was included in that not just for the operating, but that inclusion for the water storage issue at the, at the course. So that gives you a big overview. Thank you, Scott. And then next slide please. I'm going to turn it over to touchstone and they're going to talk about their fiscal year 22 23. Thanks. Thank you very much, Jen. I'll take the slide. The numbers here represent our first full fiscal year of revenue expenditures and EBITDA or net earnings. We almost achieved our target goal and that first year we just missed it by 2.8%. So we did almost $3.4 million of revenue at the golf course with our cost of sales and our food and beverage operation getting into full swing at the end of the 2022 year we had cost of goods that we had so that was a little bit over target, but ultimately, the net earnings or EBITDA line was a positive $192,000 for the golf course. We achieved about 55,000 rounds, a little over 55,000 rounds not quite to our target if you remember in January, in March of 2023, we had those atmospheric rivers that came through that significantly impacted the golf course rounds golf and cream fee revenue. And that first 2023, first four months or so was pretty impactful for so the rounds didn't quite make our target. But the food and beverage really carried the story in that year with the opening iron and vine really getting the promotions and marketing and the restaurant going that helped us achieve in that earning profitability for the EBITDA target for 22 23 fiscal year. To give you an idea of where we are for the first six months of this fiscal year of 23 24. We have achieved about $2.3 million of revenue which is right on target for our plan for July to December of 2023. And if you look at where we were the same time in 2022, it's a significant growth in revenue. The restaurant is in full swing. Banquets and private events are happening and our tournament businesses starting to pick up as well through our first six months of operations. We brought on more staff as we've grown the operations from our learning center to the food and beverage operation as we've grown the banquet business so payroll is up compared to prior year but right on plan, as well as operating expenses are higher. We've seen a significant increase in our utility costs for running the golf course from electricity to gas, as well as payroll increases with minimum wage and labor increases have happened over that time frame. But our improvement to net earnings or what we call EBITDA is almost $285,000 of EBITDA so net earnings and at the same time last year we were actually operating in a negative and where you saw we actually finished at 195. So we're really excited about the 285 where we are mid mid year though we're not at our target. Where we've seen the growth to is in our rounds, compared to prior year for the first six months we're up to 31,000 rounds not quite to our target, but what's been the biggest impact for us is the average rate. If you look at where we were this same time last year the overall average rate for green fee car fee is only $30 and 27 cents, and with Council's approval when we did the rate increase in March of 2023 that has significantly helped us grow our revenue target and the average rate up $35 and 51 cents. We'll talk about rate increases a little bit later but it is it is very important that we continue to look at that as an opportunity to continue to grow revenue and to help us achieve the EBITDA target and help the fund for the golf course. Memberships are starting to grow as well as a target we're growing more members every day. And so we're really excited about the second half of our year though. January and February we've seen similar rain as last year so it's been impactful for the first couple months of 2024, but we're looking forward to sunnier days to finish out the year. So, as it relates to our 2024-2025 budget that we're proposing to all of you there's this slide shows a comparison. First column is where our proposed budget. Second column is the performance of the golf course over the last 12 months that's the LTM column. And the third column is where we completed the 2022-2023 fiscal year. So, there's a couple of points about this that I'd like to point out. Number one is the revenue growth that we're planning for this coming year compared to 2022-23 and the LTM. This is driven largely by normalized weather and a 3,000 round increase. And the associated green fee car fee revenue. In addition we're planning for $800,000 of food and beverage revenue increase over the 2022-2023 year, and that is the trend that we're seeing that first year we were starting from a standing stop as it relates to the food and beverage operation. Now we are in full swing the sales effort for having catered events, other private events, weddings, community programming, all of that that we're having in the iron and vine restaurant. It's in full swing right now and so we're planning for that level of revenue. You'll see that we're also planning for a significant increase in our average green fee car fee. And we'll talk a little bit later on. This is a preview of the rate increase conversation that we're going to have later on, but we have included that in the budget. I think important to point out with this is in the budget is the EBITDA amount that we're planning for this year, which is $557,000. So as that relates to the debt service that Scott and Jen were talking about, so the debt service is about $450,000 a year. The EBITDA that we're planning is $557,000, so a little more than $100,000 delta. So we are planning to be able to cover the debt service and then have $100,000 left over, which is terrific. That $100,000 there remains a substantial amount of deferred maintenance at the golf course and with the cost of projects, we'll talk about the NGF's report in a little bit. That $100,000 does not go too far. And so the good news, we're financially solid. The delta, that $100,000 is not a huge amount when we talk about the deferred maintenance. Important to note that this $557,000, this EBITDA that we're talking about, that is assuming the rate increases that we're going to talk about a little bit. Can I interrupt? Yeah, that's okay. Because that's great information. And you know, I want to also say to the team here at Touchdown, as the city's realist sometimes, and I work with a lot of vendors at the city, I really need a compliment at Touchdown. As far as their transparency, their financial reasoning and how they've been running our course, I've been so impressed. They are really temper everyone's understanding of their ability to get us out of this very large problem of the course. And certainly the $557,000 is going to be helpful. But we also have more expenses with the golf course that are not fully encompassed within their budget. So certainly we're excited to see the growth in the areas that they're speaking about. I see it when I look at their financials, I see that revenue growth within food and beverage. I understand how they were starting at a stopstill and in a lot of ways with golf as well, especially with tournaments, etc. So I see the momentum here with Touchdown, but we've got a ways to go before we're thinking to ourselves from a general fund standpoint that we're good with the golf course, not even just on the capital side on the operating side as well. We have around an additional $600 to $700,000 worth of city expenses covering debt service and expenses on our side, gents time, etc. to cover it. What is that again? I'm sorry. What are we doing again? So on the city's side? It's on a different slide. Okay. Jen, it's on a different slide. It's Scott. Thank you. This is the operating base proposed as $347,635 for city, the Nevelli golf course. So those are things we need to do. So we're right around $400,000 worth of expenses on our side of things. And that covers a lot of different issues. So we have some professional services contracts that go through us. Some of the equipment expenses go through us as far as our repair shop working on the equipment that's there which is substantial. And then of course the big numbers is the debt service which we're talking about. Since Scott did stop us. Do you have anything to say? As far, I think I would just say that iron vine is great. I enjoy being there and I've heard nothing but wonderful things about it. So I really like what you guys are doing. And I also get pretty regular communication about what's going on the golf course and inviting people to come and celebrate or do something or come eat or, and that wasn't something that we had before. For me to just say thank you for being the realist because we need the realist. But I think that council knew that there was a lot of problems at the golf course and we continue to put money into the golf course and ask this wonderful company to come manage it. So, it's not new. I would rather have a community center or something like that if I can be truthful, but I know that it is very important. When I went there I fell in love. So that is why we continue to try to try to do what we need for Bennett Valley golf course. I think when you talk to counseling you're and you're saying this is how much money you're putting into something and this is what we can't do. I think that that would maybe be a different light and I don't know if you want to approach it that way. But we kind of knew what we were getting into. It's like putting a lot of money into old car or to restore it or are you going to go buy a new car. But the old car is a classic. Right. It's a gym. So how do you decide on those two. So those are just my comments. That's far. Do you have anything. Just a couple, thus far. Could you break out what the what the revenue. The difference in revenue expectations from iron and buying versus the course what's the revenue split between those two entities. You definitely get into. I know iron and buying for the revenue that we're planning is about 1.8 million. And their net earnings from operations from just the food and beverage. Now, we have our financial system we put all of food and beverage operation but there's club Alice and other expenses but the net earnings from food and beverages about $63,000. Okay, so I would just look for back at the end of numbers. So is iron by about 40% them from who's my estimating that right. Green fees are the other largest impact for revenues which just from green fees alone is almost 1.5 is what our plan is, not including membership dues or tournament fees but just daily play. All right, that's helpful. I'll have a few more questions at the end, but as long as as long as Alan and mayor and the mayor, sorry, Scott and the mayor mentioned that the components of touchdown. I'll mention that in recent recent city gatherings I've had others other municipalities come up to me and see how much they like working with you. So I'm glad to know that that's been our experience as well and that's what I've heard from the community. So thank you. All right, so I think we can all agree that we picked a great company. We'll continue at the presentation. I will say Greg our general manager has been outstanding I mean he's the one leave Mark and I are talking but he's been the silent guy at the table but he's been leading the team and just done a fantastic job of building the team there. Really kudos to to Greg. Great increases. Next slide. Yeah. So, as we've been talking about and we've shown some rate increases over the last couple of budget cycles, really to give an overview of why we we feel that these are necessary to be increased. As you've seen from our presentation the operating costs continue to rise whether utilities payroll and just general operating cost of goods. We continue to feel that increase. And we need to make the golf course more profitable to obviously offset so hopefully debt services deferred maintenance and operating costs. And again, help the general fund. There are more improvements that are needed which will show a list of our proposed capex improvements, but this includes equipment, drainage tea leveling cart path work. There's just so many areas of improvement as you talked about a classic car it's a beautiful golf course and people love it it's a gem it's the most valued their best value in Sonoma County but there are some deferred maintenance that need to why we are asking for a rate for the increase. Next slide please. To give a little history, Jenny you still want we're still going right. Yeah, history on this is from what we found there were only about three increases to the green fee structure over the last 11 years from 2011 to 22. And each of those were from what I've heard were very controversial or hard to hear because when you space out your increases over time, you kind of have to do these large increases upfront to get caught up. Council Council helped and improved an increase in March of 2023 which was great which was on average about a 10% increase. But that still kept the golf course below our competitive set and market value, but it was a significant increase to what the rates were prior. So what we're proposing in our ask is this next fiscal year we are asking for another about 10 to 15% increase in the rate for this next fiscal year, and we have a comparative slide of our market set to give you an idea what that will look like. But then every subsequent year after that a more nominal minor dollar or two increase that will keep us in our market rate, but won't be such a big hit to the to the consumers when they come out play. And again still being the best value in the marketplace. We are proposing a resident and non resident rate, which hasn't been at the golf course. When we went to our safe Bennett Valley group with here and the board, one of the things and council asked us to do a little research on why Bennett Valley either did or didn't have a resident rate. And what we found was that from when we started to now about 68% of the rounds are Santa Rosa residents. And so by doing a resident and non resident rate we can more gently increase the resident but then do a higher increase for the non resident play. They are visiting and coming to the great golf course but they pay a higher rate and that's consistent with some of our predators in our area. So, on the next slide shows just a sample of what a fee increase would look like for Bennett Valley we chose our weekday rates. The first column is the current rate that starts at 37 and goes down to our junior fees. We are saying that we would like to keep our junior fees. But at the same level we want more juniors coming to the golf course we don't think they need to be charged a higher rate, as well as our. So we're keeping that rate the same. But as you look through the different golf courses between Windsor, Foxtail, Valley of the moon or Rooster Run, the average fee that they charges and that quite column on the far right there, and how much even at our proposed rate that we are in our deep green here. What the percentage under our competition for each of these rates and in some of our non resident rates will be cheaper than a resident of another town's rate. So, we still think we can pull those non residents to come to Bennett Valley, because our rates are still going to be better than theirs as a non resident playing with our proposed increase. So this is just a sample of our weekday would have been a much longer slide if we went. The key thing here is just running right across and see look at identifying what we are proposing in column two and compared to a similar rate right across the board at all these other golf courses see how it falls. And we tried the, you know, the senior fee is significantly under our competitive set, but we also tried to taper that one as gently as possible as well. And also something on a Foxtail North course they have a mandatory card, which might deducted that rate from the fee. Next slide. Thank you. So I, we wanted to touch on the capital needs summary back up to 2022 2021 when the city hired National Golf Foundation to look at the golf course as see what sort of investment is needed in the golf course coming up in order to make it profitable. And so we have a few things on here. I wanted to remind everybody to that these cost estimates have not been adjusted there straight from the National Golf Foundation's project list in 2022. But we, you know, if you look at the top it's the irrigation system, the drainage system there's a lot of things on there that have been significantly delayed and therefore, much like the golf fees now cost much more to to get done we are taking that first step by starting our water supply and storage pond for the irrigation and some new electrical equipment there with that that's a, that's fantastic to do that but we still have a long way to go. Next slide. And then same here I didn't want to miss out on the opportunity to look at what National Golf Foundation was suggesting is optional. Optional things that the golf course needed to do I know that touchstone has already actually been doing some of these capital improvements because well National Golf Foundation has, you know the very logical about how they approach it. I've learned a lot about golf since touchstone has come on board and then you know grains and teas they need to be right in order to have a really good golf play and attract that golfer to our golf course so I wanted to to see these costs here and again it's the same thing we're looking at costs to do that this year we're looking back at 2022, but at least you can get a sense of the overarching need at the golf course due to lack of, you know, these taking care of these over the years. So it's even more now. It's even more now if this is 2022. Right. It's a lot more now it's. Yeah, it's, it's, it's there's a good percentage. Thank you. Okay. And I'll turn it back over to touchstone they're going to look at some of the projects and equipment they've purchased in since 2022 things they've been able to get done so far. Did you want. They're all good. So I think it's good if you talk through. Yeah, we've made a lot of changes. One is obviously in the restaurant we had them rejuvenate that that facility and you know I can go down the list each one of these but basically we only have a couple that are still withstanding from our initial commitment with the city. And we built a beautiful pergola on the back deck of the banquet room. New carpet which again, just turn that night and day of the difference in the feeling in the pub house. We talked about the tea some of the work that we've done leveling a golf tea is very important for the consumer is something they noticed right away. Tree trimming is a constant job at our facility is tree trimming and stump removal. There's there's one of the open row is there irrigation system pose lake that's. That's tradition systems. Oh, that's what we looked at before we engaged the city. And we go down to the POS system we got involved with the POS when we first started walking floor kitchen that so there's the what haven't I done I haven't done the sound system yet. In the banquet room we're working with them right now. And as I mentioned before they had free removal. Still working on. I've got the cars. I mean, these are. Next slide. We made a lot of. Yeah. I was just saying with the city, you know, this has been wonderful that we've done through this. The folding chairs. I mean, we're now becoming a really popular wedding venue because of the stuff that we have been kept. And I'll, I'll frame it as well. Great. And that touchstone is and I really call this like operating capital needs and this is these are the things that really have made the public felt invited back into into our golf course and iron and buy it. And they're valuable when they were needed and they are going through that process of doing that. And I really call this operating in more so than capital. Capital is what we talked about a moment ago as the mayor, you know, wisely described as a large need that's getting larger though. I'll just tack on to one of the things we heard from National Golf Foundation was that for the golf course to be successful in the future, we need to start, we need to start investing. And so we, you know, have to do some of these things in order to make this golf course viable and to keep it open. And it was a, it was a good call on National Golf Foundation to help us understand that and recognize that so. And every asset is, is made, making the city better city project. So everything, you know, as I go through this list is pretty massive. There's a lot of money here. But yes, the walk in kitchen for those of you who have been there before, it was basically a cardboard. It's a lot better. Prime range and then, you know, again, we're asking for, and as we look at next year, we're asking for another blower, you know, for equipment because that's such a great asset in the fall that we have with all the brush that we get on. For a restaurant, we just ordered some that we should be expecting in April, you know, April and again talking about a new look into our facility, something really modern. It's going to be spectacular. We've received the two Greens Bowers that we got from the city, and we also received $2 million in capital funds, or general fund for the water supply irrigation lane that we're continually working on hoping to get that done. Sometime in the fall of this year, the initial plan was in the March of next year but as we're walking the golf course today. I just simply have anything like this March would be really difficult to get the equipment out there. But now we got new carts, and that's a wonderful new asset to of course we went from having 60 carts that were seven years old to now 72 new carts I can do a full field golf tournament. And we have now the facility to do a lot of big numbers, not having problems with our cards. And no, it's our capital is in equipment needs, some rays, it's been really exciting. Next page. Next page please. Are you on it? I know this is what we're I got the wrong glasses on. So what we're looking forward to, we have a POS system now that doesn't work as well as I'd like for our restaurant facility so we're looking to improve that. It's all about customer service for me. And then our we're looking to have some utility cars by utility carts right now, or my main this team are basically just holding things together. Fairway aerator to make our greens are fairways, more consistent throughout last year we, we aerated the fairways and the first time I've been done maybe 25 years and people notice that right away. And something I'm looking forward to doing is a part three course, I went over the centers of country club. Last week when my superintendent. I mean nobody on my golf course under a beautiful day bothers me so they have a part three course that they set up, and they hit off maths and to the green and they they had the day I was there on a beautiful day they probably had 6570 people. My response so we're going to try to do that inside but that's a minimal investment at $25,000 but I think that's good for us. More furniture for inside outside patio furniture, a continual stump and tree removal, rich repairs and car path repair so again, a nice ask is sums up to a lot of money but all things that are very important to us in our operations. So we do have a recommendation here for a recommendation by the recreation parks department that the long term financial policy audit subcommittee provide feedback regarding the been a valley golf course overview and recommend Council approval proposed golf the rate increase for fiscal year 2425. Next slide. And we are all here for any questions. I apologize, but can I maybe just frame one time or at the end of our committee. As we're moving forward in our next coming budget cycle, we the finance team we are working through the numbers that touchstones provided, we're working through our proposed budget to really nail down what we believe a correct general fund subsidy will be for this next coming budget cycle. We don't have that number yet, we're still doing that work but what I do want to prepare Council for is that we do anticipate one. And again it comes back to the concept of coming, going to those operating capital needs that are still at the course to just get the course welcome, welcoming again get the things that are needed the driving mats all those things are the basics still, and we're still working through them. Again, coming back to we don't want to have a set it and forget it mindset on the golf course and not be doing the proper operational investments that are needed. Again, I wish I had a number to say at the moment, I don't. I think it may be a little more than last year last year was around 280 or so that we did on an operational basis. I would expect it to be higher this next coming year, but at this point that's the best information I have higher like 300 or higher like. I'm aware. All right. Sorry. Quick question time. I got a few, no particular words. Let's work through them. I'll say first, Scott, thank you for being a budget Hawk. Thanks to you now as the as the mayor as the mayor implied, we all know that budgets are tight. And so thank you for for sharpening the pencil as he as you walk through the budget to all of you actually because I know it's a group effort. What's really interesting about to me is that with last year's price increases, it didn't, it didn't look like the number of rounds were affected. People were relatively price insensitive, which was, and as you indicated in your budget it looks like we expect that going forward, which is something that I've heard from from golf course users themselves that they were that they were supportive of the price increases. I think it was a comment that it was it was good to see that that that didn't affect the numbers. With the membership with a number of memberships, it was interesting those stayed flat, relatively flat but we're anticipating an increase for the coming year. Can you speak a little bit as to why that why we think the membership stayed flat and why we think we can do better in the year to come. I think the winners had a huge I haven't seen anybody. I had a guy sign up today for membership, because he's only played nine holes from January. That's value property. I mean, as you walk into my golf shop Mark mentioned this says best greens best value. Yeah, that's our market. I'm about to put out a big ad campaign about you buy your membership now you won't be affected by, you know, the new pricing in July, and I'll get I think I'll get three to 40. I'm also thinking that what I'm seeing around the area we're doing more than centers of country club more activities and found road. So people are quitting those clubs and joining us because we have junior golf we have tennis across the street. Yeah. We have other things that, you know, we're providing activities every week or tributary night. So, I'm finding people are quitting the climate club and coming to our mark to that. The, in the scale and scope of what we have focused on over the first almost two years that we've been involved it's been up, you know, getting the golf course transition getting the restaurant up and operational improving the golf course conditions that myriad of projects that I've talked about today. I don't know that we've put the full court press on growing that membership. Okay, right now. And so as we tick off items off the list really turning our attention to that we see that there's opportunity. All right, great. Another question with the, what's the top, what's a rough estimate for the total number of people serve at the course every year. What are the rounds in terms of the junior golf restaurant to sure throw that in break it down like restaurant like at least on the golf course side because that's where the big cost is it's on the golf course side what would it be. Well, on the golf course side it's it's the rounds we anything that if we were to answer that question right now it would be speculation and yeah great if it's a really good important question I think let us put some parts to that so we can answer that that's all fashion we don't have that easy metric at our disposal right now with restaurant covers. The amount of people that have attended our banquet and catering events, the amount of participants in the golf and lesson programs, all of that, adding to the rounds. And so we can put that together, we just don't know what it is. I didn't mean to put you on the spot, but if you if you were able to come up with numbers that'd be helpful. And what I have in the back of my mind is that, in part because of the name, the Bennett Valley golf course gets confused with the country club, as though it's a private establishment that really caters towards that specific area. And so if you're if you're coming up with a number for the number of people served, I'd also be curious to know if there was some way to break down where the where the in city folks are coming from. What the suspicion is from my time at the course is that we're getting we're drawing from all over the city. It really isn't a broad city amenity in the same way that the family pool or Ridgeway pool or Howard Park or really city amenities, not particular to a neighborhood. And to the extent that there's data to support that it would be helpful to have it would be helpful for council to see we have, we can produce that we have that zip code data for where around. Break that down. It'll be helpful. Hold on to my next question here. The resident I'm glad you talked through the resident and not resident rate structure. That makes sense. I'm glad you highlighted how the prices are still under under market rate for this area. Of course, well to two cost questions. So my brother is a pga pro proud to say he was just named with state of Wisconsin assist over the year. And the record. So he's in my he's in my year with some of these costs on occasion. What is the new green more cost these days for California $55,000. So that was $110,000 expense to come up with two of those last year. Yeah, I was just curious. I know they're super expensive. So, you know, things that I worry about that that exact same green greens more. I think about six years ago was a 30 to 32,000 jumped thing. And so it's just, and to add to it. They're impossible to get in any sort of timely manner. It's going to say, I think the little from us. Yeah, it's like you put an order in. And then it's two and a half years later. That's what it's. Yeah, it's just that these equipment vendors have such a backlog of equipment that they're trying to supply right now. It's in their best interest to ramp up production. It's frustrating. It's all the typical supply chain issues we're seeing across the board. Back to back to costs and potential ROI. It came up a couple times during conversation that way that rainy winters or rainy springs have a big impact in the bottom line is people can't use the course. So in the in the proposed projects pertaining to drainage and bioswell creation. Am I am I thinking correctly that with if we get a handle a better handle and drainage on the course that there is a reasonable ROI to those projects, and maybe it's a million or 1.2 million upfront but what would that mean to you in terms of return? Well, it would be significantly increased rounds. So, for instance, we were not able to know the fairways at the golf course until last week. And so right now, we were walking around out there today. With boots on and the team has done this. They've been working. If the sun has been up, they have been mowing for the last week to try and get us caught up. And I would say we are the golf course is 75, 80% totally mowed out. There are areas that are still too wet or that we're still bringing the heights down because we haven't been able to get the, when I say heights, the heights of the grass down, because we haven't been able to get the mowers through it. It has been a historical problem that Bennett Valley for forever. I was going to say. Currently, there are steps that we can take to the technology is there. We know what to do. There is a cost that goes with any one of these things that we do so to your point, improving the playability in the winter. Nobody is going to come out play golf when it's pouring so can rain, but if the next day is sunny, and the courses dry and firm, then people will be out. That's how we lose weeks of play time. Yes. We would discourage people from one. Yeah, because that that word of mouth goes so far. I mean, we've had tournaments cancel basically at our call because they would just hate it and they tell everybody. That was our decision. I'm not affirming that and we take this up in front of council. I think that might be helpful helpful point on which to expand as well. But some of these some of these are just some of the costs are deferred maintenance that we just have to. We have to do, but some of the projects, including some of the price you price your ones are projects that have an oral I built into that. There's no question. Yeah. Okay. I think that I think those are, are it for my questions and back to the base on the table. I'm certainly supportive price increase, especially given as a given how we've seen the last one was absorbed without any issue. And and the feedback I've gotten from the community. Excellent. Thank you. That's it for me. All right, I have a few. Um, so we've started doing something for the irrigation. Where are we with that like percentage wise and like where what they are we in a phase where they're like 20 phases like where are we. Yeah, you can break it down to micro if you'd like, but yeah, we are it's in the capital projects engineering team. And they started the design processes in house design. And so we are now reaching out to our other departments to make sure we have feedback from the other departments, working with the water department because we're tapping into a really big main line. And so we're working through some of those design issues right now. And we're hoping to have, you know, finished and complete construction drawings by next summer. That's the goal. And so we should be able if not sooner, and then we should be able to go into construction next year. If we can't make the edge, you know, one of the thing is you really can't do large construction work like this during the winter months, you don't have to go because of the environmental law. So you'd be looking at doing something if we can't get before that October deadline, and we would start it in the spring of the following in 26. So that's where it's at right now we're really pushing hard it's a priority project for capital projects engineering city, obviously to get that in. We're working hard and we met out there. I think I think it was last month to go over where, how it could work and working through that. But so if we do it. Like during the summer or isn't that like prime time to come play and what's that effect. Yes, yes. Fortunately, it's kind of off to the side. Perfect. And so it's not in a we're not having to close down holes or anything like that we can work simultaneously to golf being played and the contractors that work on projects like this are used to working around golf. And I think there will be a, there's always a level of excitement with golfers when they see projects going on, improvements going on. So I think in our experience with doing these kind of large scale projects while play is going on the golfers. Yeah, this is great. You're doing something and it's like it's going to be great. So we're going to turn it to a positive. Chair chair, I will add, I think your comment is wise in that when we are looking though at the future, larger capital investments that's going to be a critical part of our analysis to talk about how it is going to affect gravity. So, it's well taken. Thank you. Well, the rate increase, but I guess because of what Mark said, it hasn't deterred anyone from coming this far. So, and we'll still be below most are all around here. So it should be well received. But especially because people want the golf courses. And so they're willing to have some investment. Also, with the membership, will there be a differential in the amount and percentage, but also have a resident and not. Okay. Who we spoke about programming and trying to have more people come in and utilize the golf course in the facility to diversify and just let people or. I spoke about children, but just having like children come and see that there's something different and a different game to play. So, and I know that you were working on that. So, where are we at with that programming to try to get more children over connected with. They were really neat working relationship with the boys and girls club was a snowman killing that was a snowman rent. And they have started the industry. Every Thursday they come up with a, it's actually it's a different group of eight people, different group. And so they're going all over. I guess there's 40 something branches of the boys. So we're, we're working with that we have our junior golf program. One of the cool shots I've ever taken was we have what's called PGA hope which is where we give free golf lessons to better. And yesterday we had that, that group there are 15 people with my teachers. And then we had a junior class behind them for kids in my junior class. So we are getting all types of, you know, diverse, diverse education is just every, we're, we're selling junior programs in January, you know, which has never been done anywhere I've worked. And we, we basically filled up our summer program or letting people when we had the spring break we got four kids but that's better than we had last year. So yeah, I think we're doing a really good job of, and then as we bring these kids in today, I saw them when they were having their break and I walked them around the kitchen. A little bit just to sort of see what the whole, what happens with the golf course is not just fighting and chipping and hitting the ball into a hole, but this is the business for you. Thank you. And we continue to build it chase is our new director of instruction. It took us a while to find the right person for this role, but we're really excited about having chase on our team now. And, and vocal in the area so that he can start connecting and reaching out to bring more kids and junior leagues and junior programming to the golf course so this summer is going to be really excited about our juniors. Perfect. I love children everywhere, but I would be really interested to know how many come from Santa Rosa because this is such a big investment. I don't try to see how to say it. Yeah, I don't really want like his being coming up here from Marin and I mean, that's great. But I do really want to focus on our children because we have a lot of neighborhoods and places and children that could really benefit from seeing even just seeing the golf course or maybe sparking an explosion or maybe they go out there and you're like, wow, you're really good. Right. So that that is what I, what I would like in something that I've been pushing for since we've made them investment. Yeah, definitely noted and I'm going to just move a little kudos to Greg we did get a really nice letter from the boys and girls club, thanking the golf course for kids that would never get an opportunity like that to play. It was really great to see somebody take the time to write a formal letter like that and let us know that it's working. And this number ran I think is the umbrella for the whole area here but we'll check and see and bring that. And then I do support the right increase that was the question I do support the right increase I will support the right increase because it helps us to keep the golf course. But I gave you guys kudos and said that you're doing a great job, but I would also like you to take back to your staff who are absolutely wonderful. Every event I've had they're eating in the restaurant everything your staff are above it they go above and beyond I don't even. I don't know if you got them like that or I don't know how this will work. But they are their phenomenal. So please take that back to them and I think that's another reason why people come back, even though we still have some improvements to do on the golf course, it's because they always get a smile they always get someone that is willing to help them. I mean, there's so many reasons but your staff are phenomenal so please let them know that it is noted and sometimes they don't even like they don't know who I am. Right. So it's not like they're just they're just nice to everyone and I love that. So that would conclude my my questions and my comments I hope that we can really dive into the projections of how we're going to do this right so I can look at this chart all day long. It kind of gives me a headache because it's scary that the numbers are big. I don't I don't have that money. So what is the proposed way and I'm looking at you because you deal with the money. What is the proposed way to deal with this and what are we not going to be able to do if we're dealing with this. So I think that would conclude my questions but I do want that in when it comes to console. So we will now go to public comment on this matter. You have to read your script again or no. Alright, is there anyone here from the public that would like to speak. Yes, sir. I can't hear your name. If you would like it to go on the record. Richard Carlisle, I'm president of the student Valley. I want to just say thank you touch down for all the things that you've been doing and staff. Thank you all for holding the killer real estate, because this isn't easy to get through. We've had COVID weather, all kinds of difficult things to save better Valley is really happy about me. We really support rate increases. I think what we're doing as a group kind of luck now that we think that all courses and good hands and say we're looking for other things to find out how we can help revenue. Fundraising volunteer work, whatever we can do to help situation because we think there's there's really ways to do a fundraiser or something to enhance the driving ring. That could be a big revenue thing in the future. We've talked about snack bars that could be put out there that are handy or for the golfer and could also serve the task group soccer group apart. So there's ways to get funds out there and we're here to help anyway we can. And even do some volunteer work with cleaning up the creek once the lakes are done, maybe we can get a full volunteer. I'm with a volunteer group right now there's cleaning up principle more green. So it's a big thing to clean up a creek, trust me. So that creek is probably going to need it. So we can get volunteers to help with the situation a lot. And we really thank the council on touchdown and staff for really moving forward. I just like to, I'm a long, long time golfer. In fact, I played out there in a ballet before there was any iron and vine or meat for a shop or anything. Out of a little tiny farmhouse, basically, rusty butter, rusty butter, right. And the things that touchstone has brought to bring in community and bring people from other courses, for instance on the Wednesday night they have a Wednesday night out where they have a scramble which is a nine hole type of thing. But it's not like the traditional all men, or all women, it's families, for instance, you can have four people play on a team, and it doesn't matter what age they are, it's for fun. We had our son, our grandson, and my husband, and I played one night. I've seen other families who have several generations playing. So they have those kinds of things going on, which we've never had out there before so you don't have to be a golfer that goes out every week you can be one that goes out once a year or whatever and have fun. The other thing, nobody likes a price increase I mean, but it's the world we live in right at this moment. We're below Windsor when I go play Windsor, I have to play pay and out of resident fee. So it's nothing new to have something like that golfers are used to it. What they've done with the golf course and how they've improved it and so forth is incredible in the amount of time that they have been out there. And to you, I understand the financial part of it. How to say this, it's kind of the elephant in the room. This was brought on to you guys it was brought on to them is brought into us. It was an unfortunate kind of thing that how that was built, and it went so far out of budget, and has created this debt. The events. And the new pro show, but they're working through it. We're trying to work through it. You're trying to work through it. And I think if we stick with it. It's going to be great because before this, that golf course never asked for any money. It ran on itself. And that was just the golf course in a rusty puddle, which was a teeny tiny dark little grill that you can get a hot dog and you can get a sandwich or something between rounds. So I know that it's something that's going to have to go through it. But it'll be worth it. And it's such an asset for the city. I cannot tell you. And I've got a lot of friends that belong. Oh, one thing I wanted to say, most people understand this, but when you talk about members. They are members. In other words, they pay a yearly fund to become, you know, play more and so forth. That doesn't mean the people that are up, you all have over 1000 people that belong and leagues out there. It aren't quote unquote members but that is where their handicap is established which mine is that's my home club. There's lots and lots of people out there. I don't want to have somebody think of, oh, there's only 142 members. Thank you. So, I would like to thank the public for your comments and don't get in back and forth but thank you for your comments. Vice mayor, do you have any final comments. Thank you. All right. And I would like to say that touchdown is great. It's problems that we inherited. And so we're just trying to figure out a way as a council to preserve a gym that we have in our, in our community. So, do it together. I'm trying to remember. We will be on our website. I'll give you a better quote. So, with that, that will conclude 4.1 and we will go to item five which is future agenda items. Are there any future agenda items that we have? No. All right, we have again the next regular scheduled meeting for April 11 has been canceled and replaced with a special meeting on April 25, which Yeah, I'm not here. I'm at 330. Thank you. Thanks. And back to San Jose right now.