 Så, Dr. Peter Tveit, velkommen til TV-studio her, i Universitet Vagda, Grimstad. Jeg vil starte med at jeg er sikker på hva en næteværk arksbrydge er. En næteværk arksbrydge er en arksbrydge med inkleinde hængere som krosser hverandre, mer enn enn en. Og hva er det interessant, fordi jeg forstår at du er interessert i disse brydget? Det er veldig mye. Nå har du save en masse stil deresom. Og hvis du har en konkrete tøy på brydget, så kan du normalt save en halv stil. Men hvis du har en stil tøy på brydget, er det mer lykket å være 20 % av en stil du save. Så, din stil her er simpelthen at dette brydget er kjepere å bygge, fordi det er mer stil. Er det det du mener? Ja, det er en veldig viktig punkt. Så er det en veldig elegant stil, fordi arksbrydget er så slim når det er gammelt. Så dette betyr at du får en mer elegant brydget samtidig? Ja, jeg vil klare det. Ja, så bare til å summe opp, de to brydget er at du save på en stil part, og det ser fantastisk. Og på hver side er det sikkert å gjøre det. Å, det er en del. Så det er mange ting, og dette er kjent til alle simpere brydget-konstruksjoner. Ja, ja, mer eller mer så, ja. Hvordan vil du si at dette er den optimale brydget i dette konceptet? I dette konceptet, virkelig, men... Ja, og stil... Når det kommer til å reise på stil, har jeg ikke sett hva som kommer nærmest til det. Så du vil si at dette er en innovasjon som er viktig? Yes, well, that could, I suppose could be said, it has been accepted in 22 countries, and more than 100 bridges, 100 bridges of this type has been built. And who came up with the idea, what's the history behind it? How did this start? Well, I was working on a type of bridge that is very popular in Sweden, the Nilsson bridges. And then I thought I could do it better. That was when I was doing my master thesis. And then I came up with a network arch and that's been my main field of research ever since. I've gone around the globe four times and lectures in 50 countries about it. Of course, they didn't accept it everywhere, but they have accepted it to some extent. So you're actually claiming that this is your invention, that's what you're claiming here? Ja, or shall we say I thought of it, but in Germany they say I'm the inventor of the network arch. Yes, so there was no previous history. This was something you sort of took out of your own work, without having any pre-experience. Yes, well you see, the forerunner of the network arch, the Nilsson bridges, were built in Sweden between the two wars. But then the amount of the loads on the bridges became much bigger and the materials became much stronger. And then it made good sense to let the hangers cross each other many times. Then I understand that you started your interest in this when you actually was a student. That's correct, lack of imagination, I have stuck to it ever since. And you were studying in Trondheim, right? Yes. And what did your professor tell you when you sort of invented something new? I don't think he expected this. Well he said, I've got his critics of my master thesis, that I spent too much time on my patent bridge. So he didn't see this as only positive sort of that you were using so much time? No, well... You had another task? I neglected to some extent the task that he had given me. Right, then I can understand as a professor that is not entirely happy with you. Well, but he understood the advantages of it. So when I had finished then I didn't very much like the idea of starting to work. So I got the miserable scholarship for studying a year in Germany. Right. And there some professor said it was a good idea and some professor said... No, they said it was probably no good. But then one of them was very kind to me and said, let's build a model. Yes, right. And after I built the model then it seemed a good idea. So they didn't believe you. I mean, we have to recognize at this time that the German professors on civil engineering and all construction and things were top of the world perhaps. Definitely. And still they didn't believe in you. No, no. So was this beginner's luck? Well, I thought I was going out of my mind and had to be put in a sort of detention if things went on because only me could see that this was a good idea. So it was that bad that all these experts were shaking their heads. And there was one professor said let's build a model. Yes. And he met him in the corridor sometimes while I was building. And he said that the ideas that when we do build models that prove that the ideas we have are not correct. That is all you are valuable thing to find out. I wanted to build this model in order to prove you wrong and to quiet you down perhaps. Well, maybe he thought that it was good for me to prove to myself that it was a bad idea. Right, right. But he did write a letter recommendation after that year and I could go up to Trondheim. And there I wanted to study these network arches. But no, no, no money for that. But they would like me to do my licensee it on network arches because that was sort of what later became gave me a doctor title. That's what in early days evolved into a PhD, really. So this was an early PhD sort of thing. Yes. And there were not many people wanting to have these scholarships for the PhD. So they were very happy to let me have a scholarship. Why didn't they want to have scholarships? What was the wrong? There was such a miserable sum of money. Oh, so it was lack of money. I was so interested that you took this. Oh, I took this and first I came to Professor Selberg and said I would like to do this licensee it on the network arch. Yes. But he said that's not what we usually do. I don't think it is suitable. Yes. So I wrote ten pages about the idea and show it to him. And then he said, oh yes, let's go ahead. Right, right. And that's what started it really in that time. And then you actually evolved this into more than an idea that a concept sort of. Well, it was a hopeless idea really because at the time we didn't have any computers. Right. So we had to do build models for every bridge. What year was this? When did you start this licensee? I start my licensee in 1956. Yes, not many computers at that time. No, no. And I got a chance to have it in network arch computed when Saab, the Swedish company, wanted to sell the computer to. Was this the aircraft or fighter aircraft? Yeah, the fighter aircraft came. Did they actually come with a computer to Trondheim? No, well, they wanted to sell the computer to Trondheim. Yes. But I, but, and therefore, you know, for show, they said oh yes, we can calculate this all right. Okay, so you gave them the problems and they calculated it in Sweden then? Yes, yes. Right, right. And there was just one go, but it was fairly right when they arrived at. And the bridge was built at Steinscher. Yes. Yes. What was this really the step from having this concept and this calculation until building a bridge? How did you convince people that this bridge actually should be built, which was of course a new concept and proven indeed? Well, in Steinscher there was a town engineer who thought good ideas should be tried. And he knew of me from his assistant and one of his young engineers had been in my class. And he also knew that I was sitting in the four room of Professor Selberg. Yes. So he thought that bound to be right. So the connection with Professor Selberg at that time was important? Very important indeed. He was my teacher. Yes, and he was very well known in Norway, would you say? Ja, he was one of four brothers who became professors. And he was the number one bridge builder in Norway. I'm sure that would help a bit. Yes, it did. And actually there are more things about this. You see, his father was from the same fjord that my father. What kind of fjord was that? Well, it was a fjord in Sunfjord. And then my mother became very much a friend of Professor Selberg's mother. But still the bridge office didn't think it was such a good idea. And then my mother went to Oslo to talk to her brother. And he was permanent secretary to the Minister of Transport. And all of a sudden I was allowed to suggest a bridge, which could be built in the way into Eksingedalen. But if my bridge won the competition, then I was paid. If I didn't win the competition, I didn't pay anything. Right, obviously you did win that. But are you saying that you actually needed political pressure in order to build a bridge? Well, I didn't know when I was a young student how important it was to be connected. But I was connected. Through your family, you mean? Yes. It always helps to have family connections, of course. Well, I found that out later. Okay, tell me about this first bridge. Well, I've got some pictures of it. Here is one picture of the bridge at Steinsjær. It is triangular arches and well has some features that would not the bridge office wouldn't do. For instance, here you have, well in the wind bracing, you have some steel rods. But then the boss of the Scottish Bridge Office came and he said, oh, he would do that. So, well, and I did it. And then there is this little thing here to show that you shouldn't go on to the bridge. Climbing in the arch is forbidden. Yes, you mean the sign here. The sign, yes. And I thought, well, people don't mind about that sign. But if they can pass the sign, they probably be all right anyway. So, this was your first bridge. Yes. And we're in Norway. This was north of Trondheim, was it? North of Trondheim, 120 km north of Trondheim. And everything went fine. It's still there. It didn't fall down. Yes, yes, it's still there. Yes. And this is interesting because it's the first layer of paint is on it, is the red paint. And the architect said, we must keep this. But the courage failed me and I, it became grey. In the end. But I've been seeing, in China, they very often have their eyes arch bridges pointed red, they painted red. And that's a good idea. Well, especially for you, because then you can see the beauty of your work sort of. Well, I was very happy about that. Okay, so now we have discussed your first bridge that you actually got up. So just to sort of sum up, you were just a student and you got an idea that nobody believed in. And here suddenly there was a bridge. And with the benefits you are talking about here, for everybody to see that you could make bridges that were elegant. Obviously you could see that they looked quite okay and that you could save so much steel. Then obviously then this was a breakthrough. Everybody wanted to build such bridges. No, it wasn't as simple as that. But I was, because my mother's talking to her brother, this bridge was built. When was this built? That was, it was finished on the same year as the standard. So actually two bridges were built more or less at the same time. Yes. And they were finished about what year? Well, in 1963. In 1963, they were about to Piratveit bridges in Norway. Yes, yes. Or in the world I should say perhaps. Well, more or less so, but this bridge. This other bridge here, where is this situated? It is near Bergen, it's on the way into Eksingedalen. It looks very slim really. Yes, it was the world's slimmest art bridge for, oh it must have been 40 years or something like that. Yes. But well. So this is basically recognized that these two bridges that were built at this time, at this period, there was nothing else like this in the world at that time. No, actually the ideas that I had presented to my professor in Germany was taken up by, by a German firm and they built, let me see if it is here. There it is, yes. And they built this bridge between Germany and in northern Germany on the way to Denmark. It looks kind of similar to your bridge. Yes, it is, it is. So this is the Piratveit bridge. Yes, that was the idea that was accepted by my professor after my model test down there. And he spoke to, because he was from the firm that built this bridge. Right. And he has told me that there is a connection between him and the building of this bridge. I see. But the fellow who was in charge of this bridge, he died of, died fairly young after he had become a professor by a tuberculosis, because he had been a prisoner in Russia during the Second World War. Right, right, right. But this bridge here, where was that, this was in Denmark, was it? Well, in northern Germany. In northern Germany, yes. Leading up to the ferry that goes over to. I see. So this was on the road to Denmark, sort of. Yes, yes. Right, right. Well, it also looks quite okay, this bridge. Yeah, but it is very stocky. Okay, you are not happy with it. You would have done it differently, is that what you say? Well, if you compare to this, you can see that my bridge is much slimmer. Ja, but I mean, this probably is. It's a bigger bridge. It's a bigger bridge for more weight. Yes, yes. You have to give some credit to the Germans, perhaps. Oh, well, I'm not worried about that, I can give a lot of credit to them. And that was a bridge that I built there, was a bridge I couldn't have built as a young engineer. Yeah, exactly. But this means that, and this German bridge was actually built at the same time period. Yes. Around 63, 64, 65. 63, 63, yes. So three bridges, that surely must have been a breakthrough, and then you must have been generally accepted after that. No, no, I wanted to start, I wanted to work in the bridge office, but that didn't want me. You mean in Norway? Ja, but they didn't want me. Did they know about these bridges? Oh, I did indeed, because they had been controlling this. So they didn't like this kind of construction then? No, and maybe they didn't like me. Well, I had ideas of my own. Not everybody. You couldn't be controlled as they wanted the young engineer to be controlled. They weren't convinced they could be controlled. So they actually, even though they had the vacancy, they didn't give it to you? No, no, no way. So they were dragging their feet. Well, sort of signaling that they really didn't want you then? Yes, yes, I understood it that way. Right, right. And the head of the bridge office wrote a little booklet about Norwegian bridge building before between 1950 and 1960. And he didn't mention the metric arch at all. Even though there were two bridges of one specific type in Norway already? Yes, yes, but he didn't consider it worth mentioning. Professor Selberg said I should ask him. Why? My network arch had not been mentioned. But I was too proud to do so. I didn't ask him. Well, I'm not sure you could get an honest answer anyway. But this was the start. And what happened after that? Well, I went abroad to Sweden, and I went to Denmark, which was abroad really in those days. Oh yes, and I had designed a bridge in Sweden that didn't win anything in the competition. And I went to Denmark and I was working three years on the network arch, on the tunnel under the Limfjord. It was a very interesting job. So actually you didn't see any future in Norway had to go abroad really? Yes, I thought that was best. So even with the success you had a bad reputation sort of? No, you couldn't control really. So no, yes. But did you continue working on these bridges when you went to Denmark? Oh yes, I was in Denmark for competition in Denmark. I handed in a suggestion, but it didn't win anything. And yes, let's say it that way. But these three bridges that were erected in the early parts of the 1960s, I'm sure you know the history of this bridge type. When did the next, the fourth bridge come? Well, the fourth bridge came much, much later. So there was a full stop here basically? Yes, basically. But then it was so that I came to Norway eventually and started working at this institution. We're sitting now. Yes, but then I was allowed to go around Europe, tell about the network arch. And when I passed Dresden, I was there for three hours, and the professor there decided to send some students to me to do their master thesis on this bridge. When was this? That was in 1985. And no more bridges had been built with your construction? No, actually it wasn't like that. Because you see, this bridge here was... The German ones? The German ones, yes. The test for that was seen by Japanese. And he thought it was a good idea. So they built a lot of such bridges in Japan. Without asking you? No, of course not. So in the world as a whole it was not a full stop really, that they actually picked up, that Japanese actually picked up these ideas and started to build bridges? Yes, yes, yes. But I did it of course in a different way for I did. Yes, but you knew about this, did you? Yes, yes, I knew about this. And I changed, sent letters to and fro with a man who was the number one man for network arches in Japan. Right. And I was teaching for a year then in Texas, Houston. Yes, but when you were teaching in Houston in Texas, was this after you had come back to Norway, or was this before? No, it was, I had also a stint work in Aalborg University. Yes. And there I was exchanged with a professor from Denmark. Right, how many years were you in Aalborg then? Well, I was in Aalborg something like ten years or something like that. Right, and you were teaching construction then? Yes, yes. Right. Civil engineering. Civil engineering, yes. Generally. Right, right, right. So as you were teaching civil engineering, you were still fiddling with your bridge? Yes, yes. So some of my students got the task to do examine this and examine that. So you really have had this bridge in your brain for all these years? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Because I had no better idea. To my mind that is. Yes. And this also indicates that this new technology was in need of a lot of development. Well, it was really important that these students from Germany, they wrote their master thesis, 300 pages. Right, right. With lots of calculations. And it became more believable. Oh, yes. What I suggested. So that was one of the important factors that convinced people afterwards that maybe there was something more into this. Yes, yes. And I also got in contact with a fellow called Arhill Hanckamhøg. He was in the bridge office of Western Norway and had built some bridges out at some islands, between some islands. And he showed me the site of this bridge and said, could I do something of this kind? When was this? That must have been sort of 2006, 2007. So not so many bridges in Europe at least were built to say the very least. I mean there were three bridges and this is the fourth bridge in Europe, is it? Ja. Well, I cannot tell that for certain because the Spaniards took up the idea and I do not know exactly. I could find out. But if you look at this picture of this bridge without really realizing all the technical details behind it and I'm sure the camera can't do full details really. But it certainly looks like a very elegant bridge and almost dangerously calculated in a sense. You know, if you are used to war. Yes. So did you have questions from people who say that could this really stand? Yes, of course, but then there were several engineers looking through it and didn't find anything. They didn't find the floor they were looking for. Exactly. And I showed it to my old professor in Dresden and he said it looks criminally slender. Ja, that's my thought also. It looks as if somebody did a mistake here actually. Ja, ja, but then... But nobody has fallen down on these bridges. No, no. So apparently you have got it right? I think I got it right. The final calculation for this bridge was done by Ors Jakobsen. And I sent this picture to a Chinese that I knew and he asked, is it a pedestrian bridge? I said no, no, it's a road bridge. Ja. And then he asked me to come down, to come to China and give a lecture in his firm. Yes, I see. Which was Designing Bridges. And the staff of this firm is 500 engineers. Well, everything is big in China of course. Yes, yes. And in America. Yes, right, right, right. Because in July I'm going to China to tell about this. We all have seen the old pictures of this bridge in North America. That was also the Tacoma Bridge. Yes, yes. And of course you have had a lot of questions about how about self-oscillations and things with these bridges. Yes. Actually in this bridge Ors Jakobsen found it was a good idea to have a continuous connection between the bridge and the side span. Right. But then there was a professor van Boekhardt in Belgium. He said he would like to calculate this bridge. Of course he had calculated for some bridges that weren't as slim as this one. OK. And he came back and said, oh yes, it's all right, you don't need this, connecting it to the side spans. And he did for wind vibrations and so on. Dynamic simulation. Dynamic simulation. And he said it was perfectly all right, nothing to trouble with this. And I was very glad about that. Well, obviously since it's so slim the wind can't catch the bridge as in the... Maybe so, maybe so. But also, yes, it is also very good for earthquakes. Oh yes. Because the load it can carry is big compared to the weight of the bridge. No, it doesn't have a lot of weight itself to... No, no. So when it is shaken, then it... It's not as dangerously shaking as a more heavy bridge. No, a more heavy bridge would be more likely to fall down. Actually. There was a professor in Istanbul who was written to me about that. Yes, yes, yes. That was very nice of him. So, could you tell me a bit more about where are these bridges today? I mean, obviously there are more bridges in the world today. Oh yes, there are more bridges in the world. There are bridges in more than 20 countries. More than 100 bridges are built. The last one was built in the Solomon Islands. Yes, it is. Solomon Island in the Pacific. And it's a very slender bridge, as you can see. I'm very happy about that. Yes, yes. So that means that now it had sort of caught on. Yes, now it's caught on. So, you had to be old before you got recognized, sort of. Well, yes, I am 81 years old and I'm about to travel a little bit more. And not study so much on Saturdays and Sundays. You mentioned traveling. Could you tell me a bit about all your travels? Obviously you have in many years now been promoting your bridge by traveling all around the world. Alive, I have lectured about my bridge in more than 50 countries. And I have traveled around the globe four times on my way to tell about this. And I told a lot about this in India. But in India they have so respect for the boss that it will all be as the boss has likes it to be. And the boss doesn't want to be responsible for a bridge type that he doesn't know. He wants proven technology, sort of. Yes, yes. That's always the safe way to go. Yes, but in America they have very much more been willing to accept the idea. And it's there about six types, six of these bridges have been built. When you have traveled so extensively, and I mean, not just like a tourist, but you have actually been lecturing on lecturing tours all around the world. Here you have some interesting stories to tell about some of your... Yes, yes. Well, there was something that impressed me very much and favorably. A year after I had been in New Zealand I got this picture sent to me. And the two tallest bridges are carrying half of an arch each. And the yellow bridge that is here, that is where the people were sitting that were joining the two halves of the arch together. Ok, so this was built in two halves and joined together in the middle sort of? Yes, yes. Right. And it was also for a year or two the most slender arch bridge in the world. Right, right, right. But now... So obviously a lot of people start to believe you now. Oh yes, yes, but then you see there is a problem because it is not so simple this type of bridge. No. And those who are likely to be trusted with building such a bridge, they have a lot of interesting things to study. So that speaks against the bridge, but some... But obviously this is a bridge that has to be accounted now in the world literature in the sense that so many has been built. I mean they can't make a list of bridge types and bridge building without mentioning this anymore. No, no, it seems strange if they didn't mention this bridge. And I'm very happy about this. Yes, yes. And you mentioned that you had a lot of students from after you were in Dresden to help you. Yes. And I understand you still have students. Yes, yes. Now I have got some students from Hanover. So you are basically, even though of course you have retired officially a long time ago, you are actually still developing this bridge. Yes. And I understand you have full working days still. Yes, yes, but I don't work so much on Saturdays and Sundays now. No, but still you are at it sort of. Oh yes, I'm at it. And I enjoy it, I must really say. So these students that has come in the recent years to work with you, have they come from Germany, all of them? Yes. And from different places in Germany then? Well, before they came from Dresden, but then my professor there, he is retired. Right. So now there is a professor in Hanover sending me students. And he has got a very famous name. Oh yes. He is called Marx. Marx, I have heard that before. Is it from the same? It is Stefan Marx. But it is from the same family perhaps, I don't know. You haven't asked him about this? No, he has sort of not stressed any connection to Karl Marx. Right, right, right. So, just to sum up this, you feel that this bridge type now is so well known that it's expected that people in the future will build these bridges without you having to travel around the world. I think it has got started now. So a final breakthrough solo. Yes, I think it is alright for me to travel a little bit more, not lecturing about bridges. Right, right. So enjoy your life a bit. Yeah, well I have enjoyed it very much. Yes. Where were you born? I was born in Evje. In Hormes, because my father was a teacher at the gymnasium there. Yes. Where is that in Norway? That is 60 km from Kristiansund, the southernmost town in Norway. Right, so you are actually born in this region. Yes, yes. So, what kind of family did you grow up in when you were growing up? Well, my father, he came from Sønfjord, north of the Søgnfjord. And when he went to gymnasium and did his students exam, there were 30 years since anybody from his region had gone to the gymnasium. Right. So this is the high school as we would say today, perhaps? Yeah, maybe, but it is a little bit more than high school. Well, a sort of high school. I mean, there isn't any other parallel, I guess. No, no, there isn't any other parallel. This is the education you take to get you into university basically. That's right. So you qualify through this to go to the university. That's right, and he was number two in the country when he got that exam. So you come from a clever family, is that what you're saying? Well, my father was very clever, though he wasn't very clever with people. No. What kind of subjects was he mastering? Oh, well, it was Old English was his main subject. So he was a language guy. Yeah, yeah, Norwegian and German. Yes, right. And there are little money in Søgnfjord. Right. So I'm very concerned about that bridges shouldn't cost more than they have to. So you're saying that your upbringing has something to do with your thinking. Yes, yes, indeed. It's different in China because they have been more willing to spend on things that were extreme and not necessarily so economic. Yes. So one of the reasons why you sort of got the idea of this bridge might have something to do with your upbringing in Norway, would you say? Yes, so shall we say to me it was very important that the bridge was economical. Yes, yes, yes. And this was after the war, of course. Yes, yes. When Europe was struggling to get on its feet again and needed a lot of bridges, actually. Yes. But when I was in Germany, I thought of, you know, when I had done my master thesis to go to Germany, I wanted to study pre-stress concrete. Right. But all the books on pre-stress concrete in the university library were lent out so I couldn't get any. And you couldn't order them back, sort of, or anything? Pardon? That you couldn't order the books back. No, no, that was impossible. The answer was very clear. We lent out all our books. So then instead you focused on your bridge, perhaps? Yes, yes. That was part of the reason why I focused on my bridge. Yes, yes. Perhaps you can tell me a bit about, obviously you have presently also a family. You have children and a wife and things. Perhaps you can tell me just a bit about your family. Oh, well, I got three children and eight grandchildren from which I can conclude they like making children. Is that in the genes? Maybe so. But in any case, my eldest daughter, she's a teacher of religion and chemistry, which is not a combination. And then my eldest son is a headhunter. Right. And my youngest son, he's in the technological institute of Denmark. He has a teacher or professor or something? Well, he's a director, not on the top level, but one level below. There is about 120 persons working in his part of the institute. So you have a great family today, you can be proud of. I am very pleased that they are all doing well. But surely you are not just working. What do you do when you relax? Do you have any hobbies? What really do you do when you don't think about bridges? Is that possible not to think about bridges? Well, I think a lot about bridges, but I very much appreciate this periodical economist. Because economy has been very interesting to me. Okay, you are, as a sort of hobby, you are interested in economics. Yes, yes. Right, right. Well, that's an interesting, it's also a field and an interest to many people. At least everybody is suffering more or less about the economy. Another question. I mean, obviously it is some years since you went to school and to university. But what do you think about the quality of your education here in Norway at that time? This was basically before and after the war, I guess. Ja, well, it was very hard to get into technical university. We are not talking about the university in Trondheim, of course. Trondheim, and that was, I got in in 1951. And those who got in then made quite good engineers. But now, well, the best are as good as they ever were. But there are some engineers that are not so clever. What I meant was what do you think about generally the education that was the educational system that you went through at that time. Was this, especially since you have been abroad and things, do you think that it was up to standard sort of international standard? Yes, I think it was. Fairly, yes, I think it was good. But of course before we had the computers, it had to be very different. Yes, of course, slide rule and things. Yes, slide rule and things like that. And there are some things we couldn't solve, which is done by computer, impressive view buttons and then you got the result. But how was it to be a university student at that time? I mean, in Trondheim, I'm sure your parents were very proud of you, for example. Yes, my father was very pleased. Because this was a high status thing to do at that time. Yes, yes. And they were saying in Trondheim in those days that a major export article of Trondheim was engineers' wives. So the local girls were interested in you? Oh, yes, yes, they were and vice versa. So what you're saying is, of course, that there were a lot of social gatherings outside of the study hours? Well, there was a student society where I was very often going on the Saturday and, well, they brought a girl along also. So you had a nice time, basically? I enjoyed my studies. Was that really a happy time? It was a happy time for me. Yes, right. And then eventually you came to work here in Grimstad. When was that really? That was in 1985. In 1985, you came. And then you came from Denmark? From Denmark, from what's now Oldborg University. Yes. Why did you want to come here? Back to Norway. I mean, actually you did tell me just now that your reception in Norway hadn't been too good, sort of. Well, I came back because they told me in Denmark, there were some people in Denmark who told me how I should calculate my bridges. And I didn't like that. And also there was personal reasons. And I looked at the Technical Yearbook on Norway and found that the climate in Grimstad is about the best climate they have in Norway. I think that's a fact that we living here agree with. I'm not sure that everybody else agree with it, but at least the climate here is quite nice. So definitely this is one of the reasons why we want to live here, of course. Yes. That certainly applies to me. And how would you describe your working period here in Grimstad? Well, I became head of the Computer Science Department. Immediately in 1985? Yes, fairly immediately, because the other person who could do it, he wanted to do his research. So he pushed the administration onto me. As a freshman sort of. We had some good ideas. We said that everybody who wants to do his doctorate degree will have half as much lecturing as the others will have. So you mean that your workload was reduced in order to do other things? Ja, 50%. workload reduced by 50% if they want to do their doctorate degrees. And two of them did. So we thought that maybe we could get up to the level where we had one doctorate per teacher. Because one of the teachers had two doctorates. Really? So that was you earlier. Yes, but what happened after that? Well, it was a combination of computer science and civil engineering. Right. But when the, as the time went on, the interest came more onto the computer science. So I stepped down. So this was the sort of a combination originally between applied civil engineering and computing. Yes, yes. This was the idea originally. Ja. And then it evolved into more computing and less bridges sort of. Yes, yes. And then I wasn't. Then you were more alienated from this. I wasn't head of the department anymore. Right, right, right. But when did you retire? I retired when I was 67. Yes, at what year was that? That was when I was. Yes, yes. 30, after I've been, ja, 60. So this was in the 1990s that you were retiring? Ja, 1967. 1997. 1997, yes, that's right. So you have actually been working as a retired person for all these years afterwards. Yes, yes. And that's quite a long time now. Ja. I've been working mostly on the bridges. Definitely. Ja. So you have had a lot of time now and now bosses to tell me what to do. So which must have been quite efficient in a sense. Well, it was, ja, it was very much to my liking. Yes. There are some people actually to believe that as you get older you get wiser. Do you think that's true? Yes, it's general rule, but I suppose it happens. So it's not generally so? No, it's not generally so. But do you think you have become wiser over the years? Well, more patient, no, more impatient actually. More impatient, yes. And now I notice that I do not think so quickly and so sharply. Right, right. As I did before. But obviously you are in your 80s now, so you can't expect that. Well, that's to be expected indeed. Yes. Another question, since you are old, not necessarily wiser, but at least older. If you had some political power looking at Norwegian society, is there anything you would really change if you could? Well, I am very much believer in that I stress, give my point of view every fourth year and after that leave it to the politicians. Right. So you are a bit relaxed in that sense. Yes, yes. There are no issues really that you... Well, I think there are some things that they should be, but then again it must be left to those who are... Yes, competent, you mean the politicians are competent. Not necessarily, but they are elected to do these decisions. Yes, so anyway, yes. But at least since you as a hobby, you were saying that you as a hobby had some interest in economics. Yes. Of course you have followed the financial crisis and all of these things. Oh yes, I do. So do you have any comments to that and any possible solutions or anything? Well, I do not think that the present government is so stupid as many would have it out to be. You mean here in Norway? No. But I am also thinking about Europe and how can Europe get out of this. Do you think there are some stupid governments out in Europe? Well, when they have an election in France now, they do not mention the difficult situation of French economy. Okay. No, they do not. Because, well, the voters do not like to hear it. But surely people are focusing on the bad economic situation in Europe now. I mean you have it on TV every day, problems in Greece and in Spain, et cetera, et cetera. And we have a high unemployment and things like this. Well, I mean in Greece, I mean what they do to themselves. They suffer for their stupidity. Okay. P.R. 28, that has to be the final word then. So thank you very much. My pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you very much. Kan du drikke? Ja, det kan jeg gjøre. Skal vi se om der er liv her i kontrollrummet for en del av oss? Hva for en del av oss? Ja, det var det jeg. Det er en team, hei?