 This is why in the morning, and we're discussing about financial literacy, you can tell us what is that one bad financial decision that you made in life. Hezuki Akatshini, you look back, you laugh at yourself. Talk to us at Y254 channel, and you will sample your comments later on. For now, Roger is answering us. What are some of the ways, what are some of the principles that one can put into action for someone who wants to start their financial literacy journey? Okay, sure. Thank you so much. And as I started, I said that you cannot spend what you don't have. So you first have to earn. So you have to know what streams are you going to use so that you can earn. For example, if you are going to, maybe, when I lay in the native of Ibarua, like for example, where I work in Nakoro, there are Ibaruas for 200 shillings per day. I mean, from morning 8 to around 1pm, 200 shillings. So you have to know that how much am I earning per day so that I can spend X amount of money. And if I need to borrow Y so that I can have a total of Z and I can use it for A. And then from what I have borrowed, I'll need to return by this time of the month. And then what will I save? It also comes to that. So let me see if I get you. You have to first earn. Yes. How much you are spending so that you know how much you need to save? To save or invest. To save or invest and if you have taken alone? And if you are going to invest, will you need to add up some cash that goes now to borrow it? You need to loan. Then in borrowing, you'll have to ask yourself, am I worthy of this credit? In this Kenya, I hear that we have about 70% of the population is in CRB. Yeah, Xida. That's a big problem. Yeah, so we have to also check, self-check our credit worthiness. Are we worthy of that credit? Are we worthy to co-op an attala, co-op an branch? Now what are your goals? I think I failed to mention that in the savings part. Before, after spending or after making a budget for your spending, you don't have to spend. You just make the budget. Then you have to pay yourself by saving. So fast you make the budget? Yes. You know, this and this and this, I need to pay the rent. I need to have my transports aside. I need to buy shopping for the house. I need this and that. So you do a budget first. And then next, you do savings. Yeah, you have to pay yourself. The first amount of money that you get off from the salary that you earn is to save. To save. Pay yourself. Pay yourself. It's important. I've been working for that for 40 days. But I don't know how to save. I don't know how to save. So instead of saving, I decide to save myself. I don't know how to save myself. No, that's not the right way of paying yourself. So paying yourself is saving? You pay yourself by saving. So after saving, you need to maybe invest in something. You have a dream. You have a goal. So you know your goals. Your long-term and short-term goals. I need this to get to this place. For example, myself, I'm seeing my company getting somewhere in the next five years. So personally, I'll be saving something from my own kit. I'll also be saving from the company's kit. But this will help me in the next future. I need to invest the money to something. For example, we are now investing in inputs, firm inputs. The prices of fertilizer have gone up. Around 6,000, 7,000 farmers can witness. 6,000, 7,000 for one bag, 50 kg of fertilizer, chemical fertilizer. But we have inputs for organic which are much effective at 2,500 shillings at around 1,500 for 25 kilos bag. You see, kind of decisions that we have to make at the end of the day will also determine. So that is my short-term and the long-term plan. I'm planning that in the next five years, I have my own kind of manufacturing center for the organic farming. But before I get there, I need to sell other people's inputs. So we get them from other manufacturers and sell them to farmers because we have that connection with the farmers. Alright. So then, if we need to invest much further, we need to borrow maybe from a bank. A bank, we have to look at the interest rates of the bank or from a circle, somewhere. And then the repayment period. And then other terms. For example, is it worthy for my company to have this credit or is it worthy for myself, Rogers, to have this credit? Then we'll also need to protect what we have. By protecting, I mean we can have a kind of an insurance that protects us from financial risks. We'll also come to that. Okay, no problem. So let's list them. You said you save a badge. You earn and then you have a budget. Budget. And then you save. Save and then invest. Save and then you invest, right? Yes. And then after investing, you see how... You can borrow. You can borrow. Yes. And then after borrowing, you see how you can protect. Yes. That's the insurance bit of it. Yes. Okay, so back to savings. So should you just save for the sake of saving? This, saving not investment. So should you just save or should you have a plan before you save? So I'm saving for this. Or should you just go ahead and save to Evo? I can save that saving and investing at wins. Okay. So someone can say that I'm saving by investing. And someone else can say that I'll get to a bank open a savings account which gives me an interest of this percentage. So that is a kind of an investment in savings. Okay. So you don't have to just save. No. You will determine that I need to pay myself an amount, let's say X, amount X. So what are my plans? What are my short-term plans? I think I talked about it. You talked about it, the long-term goals and the short-term goals. Yeah, the long-term... What are my short-term goals first? No, you have to determine the long-term so that you can determine... You can know how to break the short-term plans and then they'll contribute to one. All right. And now back to loans. How do I manage loans? 70% of canyons according to research are already in CRB. So you find them to a taboro from Tala, Keshom to a taboro from Mshwari, Keshom to a Tafani. You know, different avenues and then you delete it and it becomes a trend. You borrow or you borrow to pay a loan. You know, so how do we break that? Okay. It depends on what you do with a loan first. You borrowed it alone, what did you do with it? If it was something worthy, I bet you should have returned it. If it was for sherehe form, I'm sure you wouldn't get... You wouldn't... Out of it, you wouldn't be able to return it. But if you invested it maybe in a business... You'll have returns. For example, there is a time when I used to sell shoes. And there are students who survived by selling shoes and I really applaud them. Because they are becoming informed as early as they are. Someone is 17 and is already in business. Yes. So I think about the loans, what are you borrowing it for? The purpose of it is what matters. Yes. And if you invested it, it turns... It turns or what? It turns. Find a way, work yourself, and make sure that you repay it. Then the next time you are thinking of getting a loan... Think twice. Think twice. But if you know someone who lives from hand to mouth, it's not necessarily sherehe or business. So I'm borrowing to pay my rent. I'm borrowing so that I can eat food today. This month, I don't know what to do. So I'll go to Paletala, I'll go to Kopa, 20,000. So next month comes, maybe I get some 20,000 from another loan app. I'll pay it. You know how it works. You know how people borrow it. So definitely because I don't have a job, I don't have anything. This is the only... You know, means to know how to share this point. And why do you borrow a loan to pay a loan? So you see particular interest to see Qatar's rent next time. Yeah, it's quite a limit and all that. Okay. So I understand such kind of situation. And at some point in my campus life, I think I also borrowed. Wow, you must be very... Financially, okay. Come on, it's at one point. No, not just one point. I mean, at some points... Points. Oh, at some points in campus. That's a good idea. Because to survive, of course, you need food. You need to maybe pay off your travelling to school. So you need to pay bus fare and all that. But it never reached a point that I borrowed to pay. I borrowed just the pile. But I think that was... It really helped, by the way. Even though he didn't have money to pay. And to clear afterwards. I think when it comes to loan, we need to think of our goals. And if it's for surviving, you can survive by other means. So you find other avenues of survival? You can use other avenues to survive. For example, if it's in a school set, you can maybe go to your... For example, I was in the University of Nairobi. And we had this work study program. We were paid 125 shillings per hour. That is what I used to survive with. I remember the salary that I got at the end of the week. It was about 5000 shillings. That was good. We used to work at the Kahawa. Thanks to Professor Kiyama. We used to work at the Kahawa in the College of Agriculture and Veterinary Sciences. And that 5000 shillings, I tried and prepared of debts. Because the next time they'll have... Well, maybe I'll need to borrow. But I enrolled in a financial class. So you got that awareness on how to manage. And you have a program coming up from an organization that you are the co-founder in, that is SkillUp. So what do you do as we come to a close? Tell us what you do and how you inspire the young people to have this awareness on financial literacy so that they can become better. Okay, so thank you so much for this opportunity. SkillUp inspire is a forum for both tertiary students. By tertiary, I mean their polytechnics, their colleges, their universities. Basically, the reason for this is to help empower them to make informed decisions and venture in entrepreneurship and also be financial literate. By this, I mean that they can use their skills. Everyone has a skill. Maybe you have speaking skills. I have graphics, design skills, I have something. We merge them. That is what we encourage. That kind of building, I can say brotherhood or a meaningful relationship with the rest of the world so that you can have one common solution to your problems. For example, I have talked about maybe someone as a good communicator. Another one is good in graphics. Another one is good in social media. He has so many followers in social media. They can join up. Come together, merge and form something. That will give them income. For example, as we speak, there are so many politicians out here. Looking for people to help them to come on board to their team? To come on board to their team in terms of communication. When I talk to them, we need people in logistics to go and talk in their campaigns. I am not talking about politics in terms of politics but I mean I talk about it in terms of the opportunities that are available. There are so many opportunities. There are companies which need to do advertising. That also they can come up and team up. Others in agriculture also, like myself, come in. So from different fields, right? Different fields as long as you get the skill. And if you don't have the skill, you can also learn. When is this workshop happening? That first March, it is happening from 2 p.m. to 5 p.m. At American Corner Spaces, Bazaar. Yes, more years than you. Thank you. This has been a great conversation with you. Thank you for sharing your insights on financial literacy. I believe we have picked from it. I believe that you have picked from it. So make sure that you aren't fast and then you save. You have a budget and then you save and then you invest. Then after that, you can have an insurance plan. That has been Rogers who is an entrepreneur and a young farmer. We take a short break and we will be back with Ram Agoko to discuss youth and politics.