 Good morning to all of you. Well, first of all, let me extend my warm welcome to all of you who have come to this Urban Age conference hosted by the London School of Economic Cities program and the University of Hong Kong. It really gives me great pleasure to be able to speak to you this morning. Unfortunately, I'm not able to stay for the debate. I understand that the Urban Age conference essence lies in the debate. And the exchange of views are a bit of argument. But because I need to go back for a very important meeting with all my other principal officials, and indeed I'm flying out in the afternoon to Shanghai to another wonderful city. So the program is a bit tight, but I hope that LSE cities will bring this conference back to Hong Kong in future. Where is my remote? Is this the remote? As John said, I was given this topic to talk about responding to global challenges. I have to say that I'm not entirely sure that I can really give you a very credible presentation based on my limited experience. But what I will do in the next 20 or so minutes and perhaps we have a bit of time for a few Q&As. Is to share with you Hong Kong's experience and Hong Kong's experiment, especially in the last four and a half years in my position as Hong Kong's secretary for development. I have this privilege of taking forward this piece of work, which is very close to the Urban Age program, which is the physical and the social. Because I'm sure John knows about it. I was Hong Kong's director of social welfare for three years in a very difficult period 2003 when we were still suffering from the Asian financial crisis and the SARS epidemic. So I think I understand how important it is to take care of the social human aspects in any form of city planning. Now, first of all, I have picked this up from the LSE's booklet which talked about this whole venture. The LSE cities investigates how urban complex systems, how complex urban systems are responding to the pressures of growth, change and globalization with new infrastructures of design and governance that both complement and strengthen social environmental equity. Though those are a lot of words there and each word is very significant and I think Hong Kong stands up very well in terms of that complexity, the complex urban system where a lot of things are interacting and happening. I will not have the time as well as the insight to talk about governance today. Though I would say that governance is becoming more and more important. So make sure that whatever we have in mind is able to be delivered. Now just a bit of background, especially for those coming from overseas when I mentioned this complex urban systems in Hong Kong, which we have to manage and respond to all those pressures and changes over the years, first is of course population growth. Hong Kong's population increased by one million per decade since the 1950s. But into the year 2000 our projections are such that this sort of population growth will somewhat moderate and we want to take advantage of this sort of lessened population growth pressure to be able to do other things in order to respond to the global challenge. Because the pressure of population growth is such that many cities do not have many options in hand because you need to deal with very livelihood issues as a result of the population growth. Now what is Hong Kong today? We are a very modern and dense city of seven million people. From these few indices that I have picked, you'll see that I hope you will agree that this is a very successful city economically. We now predominantly service economy. GDP per capita is good and with a small place like this, without much natural resources, we are now the world's number one in term of our aviation business, cargo business. Although the container business has come down a bit, we are still number three in the world. Since this is a gathering of city planners, sociologists and urban people, the first thing we need to know about Hong Kong is how we have responded to that population growth, that economic needs in terms of land utilization. This chart has now been used umpteen times in my presentation, but for those who are first commerce to Hong Kong, you'll be still be amazed by the fact that of the 1,100 square kilometers of land that we have, we have only actually developed less than one quarter. So the build-up area accounted for only 23.7%. And the rest are really preserved country parks, accounting for about 46% and wetlands and some agricultural land and so on. And what is more interesting is the training, if you look in detail into the 23% and try to break it down, all sorts of housing, public, private, HOS, village housing take up only 7% of a land. So 7 million people jammed, crammed into 7% of the land is quite remarkable in terms of intensity. And the city is still working and moving with that sort of intensity. How have we been able to cope with vertical densities? We have chosen to go high in order to meet that sort of population needs. So vertical densities, I think, have been meeting Hong Kong's needs over the last few decades to the extent that the number of skyscrapers now have surpassed New York City. That's why on one occasion with some New Yorkers, I was joking that if there's going to be a skyscraper museum and there's indeed one in New York City, it should be relocated to Hong Kong. Just to show you some wonderful pictures about the countryside, which has been preserved as a result of that model of land use adopted in Hong Kong. Nowadays, 46% of land, country parks, protected by law. So it's not just an administrative measure. It's protected by law together with the special areas. They are put under statutory control. And any attempt to take any small piece of land from the country parks will meet with very strong opposition. We have already seen this yesterday. If you switch on the TV news yesterday, you will have this scene of people putting up banners and objecting to the town planning board's discussion on trying to take a very small piece. What is that, Jimmy? Five hectares of land from a country park in order to expand a landfill to look after Hong Kong's municipal waste problem. And that has met with strong opposition. The town planning board has yet to deal with it later this month. So this is the sort of difficulties that we are facing in terms of land use. It's all very well to preserve a land, but once preserved, you have little hope to try to take them away. Now, apart from going up, of course, any city needs other measures to support that sort of intensity and still keep the city moving and generally a more liveable city. So I just want to talk about transport. Although transport does not fall within my policy portfolio, we have another secretary called the Secretary for Transport and Housing. But the control over cars over automobiles in Hong Kong is an envy of many places. So we managed to control cars in Hong Kong, of course, by investing very heavily in the public transport system, especially mass transit. So these two indicators compare for you the length of public roads that we have built per 1,000 population in Hong Kong as compared with other cities of equal economic affluence and also the private car ownership in Hong Kong. So you see that the green bars, they are significantly lower than most of the cities, including Singapore, which have a similar size, in fact, smaller than ourselves and so on. And at the moment, some 90% of the average daily trips by Hong Kong people are looked after by public transport. So it is very common that most people do not feel that they need a car in Hong Kong to get around. It is also achieved by good connectivity, especially in some districts like the central. Many people like central because it is very walkable. All the main buildings are being connected through the pedestrian network. And also we have the escalator, which brings people up to the meat levels. So again, it saves the need for car trips. The way that we plan our buildings also provides a lot of convenience, what we call all the amenities under one roof. So in zoning terms, we have what we call the CDA, the comprehensive development area zoning, which allows for residential, commercial and other things to go into the same plot of land. And of course, this is one of the latest in the above the Kowloon station on the airport railway with the elements with the car parks, cinemas and everything put together. And in the more intangible terms, Hong Kong has always been branded as a place where the east meets the west. So the cultural diversity is something that makes the city quite attractive. So, so far so good. This is Hong Kong's unique cityscape. But this Hong Kong experience may not be totally pleasant. So in the next few slides, I'm going to show you some of the problems that have caught people's attention and have aroused quite considerable public concern, particularly in recent years. First is this concern and complaint about segregated neighborhoods. Very boring and monopolistic shopping centers. And of course, as years pass by, urban decay. One of the pictures you see here with the title called, town of centers pleads for help refers to a new town in the northwestern part of new territories called Tin Sui Wai, which has been branded as a city of sadness because there was a high concentration of public rental housing, a high concentration of low income households and a lack of jobs, a lack of jobs. In the northern part of this new town, the public housing component is as high as close to 90%. And this is, I think, one of the main problems which lead to segregated neighborhoods. And you have seen elements with this all wonderful convenience all under one roof, but the outcome will be this sort of warlike buildings, which I put it under the overwhelming power of economic pressure. I'm not shaking responsibility. The government has some responsibility to it because those are airport rail sites and also the government manages to collect handsome premium from this sort of high density developments. We do not like to see some of the high buildings out of contest. These are only two examples. So because of the economic pressure, sometimes the planning control is not able to catch up with the actual situation. And we're also seeing urban heat, you can see on this urban climatic map, the urban areas are several degrees higher than the countryside in Hong Kong. Environmental degradation in terms of growing carbon emissions, which have increased by 20% in the last 10 years. And I will draw your attention to this analysis. Power generation accounts for 67% of Hong Kong's greenhouse gas emissions. And buildings account for some 90% of the electricity consumption in Hong Kong. So it means that buildings alone, we have about 42,000 buildings in Hong Kong, they account for 60% of the greenhouse gas emissions, which of course any person with common sense will agree with me, then you should tackle buildings if you want to do something about the greenhouse gas emissions, which there will be examples I'll show you later on. On the roadside, the situation is not good as well as the roadside pollution indexes captured by the Environmental Protection Department. Very often on most of the days in the congested areas in Central Cosway Bay, you are seeing this high or very high indexes. These are the social aspects of the city development, social disintegration. We have done quite a number of urban redevelopment projects with a very good objective in mind. We want to help people to take them out of very dilapidated living conditions in the old buildings, sometimes without lives, without hygiene facilities. But there are people who felt that by doing that, perhaps not have done it in a proper way, we might have unintentionally undermined the neighborhood of social network built up over years in a particular area. So these are some of the protests actions that we have seen in recent years. And the increasing disparity between the rich and poor as measured by the Guinea coefficient. So much for the experience of Hong Kong, the good side, the not so pleasant side of our development. At the beginning of this term, the chief executive has said in his policy address, in fact to follow up on his election manifesto, where he said that we should go for more balanced development because back in 2006, 2007, it was the time when we were seeing all these protests, whether on the heritage conservation side or on the city development side. So the chief executive has given this mandate for his team to take through. He wants us to press ahead with what he called progressive development, which means that overall progress rather than economic development is more important. So it's not just chasing after GDP growth or affluence. Apart from the economic benefits, he said that we should strive for benefits to culture, the society and environment, which means that we have to go for sustainable, balanced and diversified development. So with that sort of backdrop, in the last four and a half years, I'm trying to put it in practice. I'm a very pragmatic official, so I want to practice what progressive department means and how we are going to reflect it in our policies. This little table or greet, whichever way you call it, is drawn up for the first time. So David Lung, you came for this. Professor Lung is a very good friend. We work very closely. And he must have gone through umpteen of my presentations in the last few years, but every time he still came and won something new. So I gave you this slide. This is a new slide you have not seen. This is trying to capture in a more systematic way the things that I've been doing or experimenting in the last four and a half years. My portfolio, broadly speaking, cover planning, building land and heritage. Infrastructure is relatively straightforward. I actually put very little attention to the infrastructure, partly because of my own social background and partly because I have every trust in my engineers. They will be able to deliver the infrastructure program with my little support. So in each of this area, there are three guiding principles to the work I do. And so the practices or the policies that I try to test out, they are sustainability, livability and humanity. So I try to slot in the things that I have done over these four and a half years into these boxes. And I can take you through each one of those, but we don't have a time. So I have highlighted four areas, four boxes, which I'll briefly explain to you how the elements have been reflected in the policy. So in terms of building sustainability, I'm going to show you the initiatives and the policy we have rolled out to improve the quality-built environment in Hong Kong. In terms of heritage, buying out heritage buildings is not a sustainable model. It has never been used extensively elsewhere to use taxpayers' money to buy privately on heritage building. So we have devised this policy of economic incentives to induce or attract the owners to preserve their historic buildings. And in terms of planning, land use planning, livability, the latest initiative on energizing Kowloon East into a second CBD is one of those. And finally, on the humanity side, I would put first, is our work in devising a new urban renewal strategy. Okay, the first initiative, how are we going to tackle this greenhouse gas emissions and energy efficiency that I have just shown you in another slide, which is crucial. After two years of hard work together with Hong Kong's Council for Sustainable Development, we have promulgated new building designs. So from the first of April this year, all the new buildings in Hong Kong, whether they are commercial or residential, they have to follow this set of new building design guidelines, which promulgate several key aspects, building separation, because we don't like those wall-like buildings. So we require buildings having met certain requirements to have to go for building separation to ensure we have the needed air ventilation and so on. We prescribe minimum greenery ratio, and we also, especially in some of the narrow streets in Hong Kong, mandate building setback so that we have wider pedestrian walkways and so on. Apart from all these mandatory things, we also put in incentives, so it's usually a stick and carrot approach. We provide incentives for developers and architects to come up with even greener designs in their buildings by providing them with extra GFA, or what we call GFA concessions. So a developer has a plot of land, they could build up to the lease provision in terms of maximum GFA, but we said that if you are happy, if you want to do these things, you could have extra GFA above what is provided for the lease, either in terms of exempt. So we exempt those GFA from the building's ordinance or we have a sort of non-accountable GFA system. So what are we allowing for in terms of GFA concessions? First of all, of course, those mandatory features like the waste separation and the recovery areas in the domestic buildings. We allow GFA concessions for green features which will benefit the community. K.S. Wong is here, he always taught me that it's not just green buildings, it's green neighbourhood. So we said that if the buildings put in features which will benefit the community like podium gardens and things like that, you could still enjoy GFA concessions. Then of course, the buildings also love to have some green features like balcony, wider corridors and walkways and so on. So we give developments an extra 10% and then a list of items to choose from that if they want to put that they could have an extra 10% as a maximum GFA concessions. And in order to support the Secretary for Environment in the promotion of electric vehicles, we also give the incentive that if you want your car parks GFA to be exempted, then all the car parks need to be EV charging enabled. So this is a very smart move in my view because by stroke of PAM, we will solve the problem of insufficient charging facilities in Hong Kong because all new buildings will have charging facilities. Now, we also try to relate and this is something that where is Andrew, Andrew Chan loves. He is the chairman of Hong Kong's Green Building Council. We relate this provision of incentives that I've just mentioned to you to green building assessment. So if you want to enjoy the incentives, we require you to go through the Hong Kong Green Building Council's BIM Plus assessment so that not only the developer but future buyers know the energy efficiency and the green standards of this particular project. And as a result of that boost, which was only introduced in April this year, Hong Kong GBC has already done a few things. They have enhanced the local assessment too. Previously it was BIM, now it was BIM Plus. They have accredited over 1,200 BIM professionals and 30 BIM assessors. They have received 70 private building projects for assessment in the last seven months compared to 80 in the previous two years. So the scale of increase is quite remarkable. Now, I come to the second in terms of heritage conservation. For my local friends, I'm sure you appreciate that my heart always goes to heritage. So there's no worry that this government under my charge will forgo heritage for economic gains. So we use economic incentives to preserve private historic buildings because Hong Kong is a place where we respect 100% private property rights. This is written into Hong Kong's basic law, which is our mini constitution. So there's absolutely no question of us despite for a very good public cause to take away a private owner's property. Once we do that, I think Hong Kong is over because that's one of our fundamental strengths and advantages. So how are we going to do it when very important, distinguished historic buildings are in the hands of private owners? In 2007, we devised a policy called economic incentives. I've chosen this term because we said that we don't want to pay cash because paying cash is not something that is very sustainable and it's unlikely to be acceptable politically. Because if I go to the legislative council, which is our parliament for three billion tomorrow to save this historic mention, the answer would definitely be no. We said that the three billion should be spent on poverty, elevation, measures should be spent on education, should provide more subsidized places in the university and so on. So there's no way, I realize there's no way that we could do that thing. So economic incentives is trying to find solutions through non-cash. So I give you this example. This king-in-layer is a beautiful historic mention on Stubbs Row in the mid-levels. It was built in 1937 and this historic mention changed hands almost exactly when I took over, it was really a nightmare. I took over in July and this mention changed hands in August. So the new owner came in and wanted to demolish the building to build luxury villas in the mid-levels and he actually started to deface the building because demolition requires approval. Deface means just taking off his tiles and things like that. So fortunately we already have the economic incentive policy in place and I have the power under the antiquities and monuments of it. So we saved the building by declaring it as a proposed monument and then we spent about nine months to negotiate with the owner on what we could do under the economic incentive policy to preserve the building. And to cut a long story short, we did a land swap. So in the diagram below, the green bounded piece of land is the historic mention and the gardens and so on, beautiful. And the yellow bounded site is the site that we swapped with them. So you would ask me, oh Carrie, you are cheating. This is also money. The land is very valuable in Hong Kong. But my response is no because this yellow site is not a piece of land that we normally will sell. It is just a green belt zone on a slope. So what I have done through this policy is I forced a debate in society that if you want to save this historic building, fine. Are you happy to sacrifice a piece of green field site, green belt site in Hong Kong? Because I could not do this administratively. The whole rezoning of a green belt for residential has to go through the statutory town planning board which requires an extensive debate in society. But interestingly, on this particular occasion of rezoning, we got far more supportive representations than opposing. The only opposing will be the neighbors. They don't like another building in front of them. But by and large, this is a very well accepted and warmly received formula because the taxpayers do not have to pay any money. And you'll be pleased to know that my land values are very vigilant. We actually collected a land premium from this land exchange. So $58 million have been collected from the land exchange because there are some tricky parts in the land lease. So even by giving the piece of land to the owner, without giving him any extra plot ratio, the yellow line's GFA is exactly the same as the green site. The size, the GFA, the height of the building, everything exactly the same. But we still managed to collect a land premium out of the land exchange. We then asked the owner to spend money and I think they have spent tens of millions of money to restore the old building which they have defaced. So the restoration was fully completed last year and we have open days for public to go in and to visit. In fact, next month we are holding other open days for this mention. So if you stay long enough or if you are around, we would love to invite you into this historic mention. Another example of the economic incentives is one that we work with the CLP, the China Light and Power. This does not require my personal intervention to step in to use the law because CLP under the Kaduri family has a lot of memories with Hong Kong and they want to do something which is in line with the Kaduri family's legacy in Hong Kong. But they are also under shareholders' pressure to redevelop a very valuable site on Argyle Street. So they come up with this preservation income development scheme which again, despite some noises, has been approved by the town planning board. So they will build some residential blocks but they preserve the old building, the clock tower and they go further than that. They keep the clock tower to be managed by them as two museums. One will be an electricity museum which is the first of its kind in Hong Kong and the second will be a museum of Hong Kong's history, particularly riding on the Kaduri family's history in Hong Kong. Now the third initiative is the latest one announced last month which we call Energizing Colonies because Hong Kong needs to provide more quality office space to meet the increasing demand from our overseas companies and local companies. And Kitech in the 1960s was the airport and supported by two adjacent industrial areas called Kuntong and Kowloon Bay. So this area has seen the heyday of Hong Kong in its manufacturing booming situation. Nowadays, Kitech has been relocated to Chek Lap Kok and all our manufacturing has been relocated to the mainland. So we want to seize this opportunity when Kitech is now going into redevelopment stage to revitalize also the former industrial areas. So together this is what we call Colonies. Now this is just a conceptual plan of Colonies. You see the runway there, you see the two adjacent industrial areas. Together they are about 500 hectares of land. 320 in Kitech which is the Virgin site. The government owns all the land so it's easy. We just roll out the projects according to a plan approved by the Town Planning Board and the Chief Executive in Council. The industrial areas will need some supporting policies and measures, for example to incentivize the conversion of former industrial buildings and redevelopment and so on and so on. So this particular initiative is, I hope, a visionary one which will be carried out in a more integrated and holistic manner. And we have characterized this initiative, a new CBD for Hong Kong by four characters or four letters, alphabets, connectivity, branding, design and diversity. So ultimately upon full development we are talking about a CBD of 5.4 million. The CBD is about 1.3 million square meters quality of space. For those of you coming from the United Kingdom, the Canary Wharf which is a new CBD of London is about 1.3 million square meters of land. And there are significant green infrastructure in this area. One is the first of its kind, a seawater district cooling system serving the Kitech area. And secondly is to put in an environmentally friendly linkage system. At the moment we are conceiving an elevated monorail connecting Kitech all the way from the runway tip to the two industrial areas as well as other mass transit railway stations. Finally is urban renewal strategy. Again this is a piece of work that some of you in the audience have helped us including David. For over two years we were very patient with this piece of work because we realized that a lot of people are not entirely happy with the urban redevelopment that we have done in the past if I can show you some of the protests pictures. So in July 2008 we launched what we call a public engagement exercise with three stage. Each stage was accompanied by all these documents and public town hall meetings and so on. So the first stage was an envisioning stage just to sit down and talk about urban regeneration in Hong Kong. Then we move into actually public engagement with some policy analysis and options for people to choose. And finally a consensus building. I'm very pleased to say that we did despite all the divisive opinions and so on. We did manage to build consensus over such a contentious subject of urban renewal to the extent that in February this year we promulgated a new urban renewal strategy. All the recommendations have since been put into effect with the mere six to nine months. Everything has been put into effect in strict accordance with the new urban renewal strategy. Just to give you a few key features in the new URS. One is we require ourselves to conduct early SIAs. So we don't just look at the building's conditions. We look at how it will affect the environment, the network and the people. So SIAs have to be conducted at the outset before we actually have any idea of which building, which road, which block should be redeveloped. And I put very important on planning with the people. So in some of the old districts we set up what we call DERF, District Urban Renewal Forum, to invite the people to formulate holistic urban regeneration plans for that particular district. The first one has been set up in Kowloon City. We give people choice. In the past if we went into a quiet old building, we pay them cash. It's not a bad package. We pay them cash, valued at about a seven year new flat in the vicinity. But people want choice. Whether they exercise their choices is another thing, but people want choice. So we give them this alternative to cash compensation. It's a flat for flat. In other words, if you're familiar with that district, you want to come back to live after redevelopment. We said yes, we give you a choice to get a flat for flat in a new redevelopment. And then also responding to owners which we said that we don't have to be the authority to initiate a project. You tell us if you want to redevelop your building. So you engage your own owners and you come to us. And this is what we call demand-led redevelopment. So we sit back and wait for people to come. And last month we closed the application. We originally anticipated one or two to come forward. We have 25 projects coming forward, asking us to go in to help them to redevelop. Now this is a final slide. Lately I have been going to conferences on Jane Jacobs' book with some of my New York friends. So I've been quoting from this book 50 years ago. What did Jane say it's 50 years ago? Cities are an immense laboratory of trial and error, failure and success in city building and city design. This is a laboratory in which city planning should have been learning and forming and testing its theories. I'm sure the LSE cities program would make a big contribution to this trial and error work in most of the cities. And I look forward to seeing more of you in taking forward these experiments in Hong Kong. Thank you very much. No, Kerry, one or two questions, right? You mentioned the end of sort of segregated neighborhoods as a planning concept. And how is this going to work out? Because you know we have the developers on the one hand and we have demands for public housing and HOS housing. It's difficult to see how to avoid this, but what's the plan? Well, although in Hong Kong a lot of people dislike developers. On this political thing, I don't want to blame the developers. It's a matter of land use planning and it's a matter of policies. I mentioned about this Tin Sui Wei town because I do feel that it has some problem in terms of land use planning, in terms of policy. For those of you who have an interest to learn more about this, I will recommend you to read a report done by one of your colleagues, is that right? Dr. CK Law, the Department of Social Work in the Hong Kong University faculty. I actually commissioned this report back in 2008 to look at what has happened to Tin Sui Wei and resulting in all this sadness, segregation and so on. He has done a little report, which not many people have read. I think it is on the website of the planning department. It's not just land use planning, it's not just spatial planning. It's also policies. It's also economic changes faster than any government could follow. Because it was planned in those days that we thought we still have industry. Tin Sui Wei could be quite self-contained if we have industries, because we have set aside land for factories close to the residential. There is also a mixed use, but unfortunately when it was carried out, all the industries have gone. Then we have this pressure that Jonas mentioned about housing, this growing population. So all the land supposed to be for mixed use, for business, turn into housing. And to make things worse, most of them have been turned into public rental housing. So there isn't that sort of mixed use and diversity that is needed to make a city without some of those problems that I have described. So I think the important thing really lies in the land use planning as well as the policy side. These days, the director and planning and myself, we have been advocating quite fiercely for mixed use. That areas must be planned with mixed use in mind and preferably also even in terms of housing that should be mixed housing rather than just public rental housing. Ricky? Carrie, one observation and one question if I may. First of all, in your presentation it became very clear to me that in describing the characteristic of vertical, convenient development, you have a system here which actually in one way or another generates a degree of segregation. I mean, I never really understood it as clearly as when you present. In other words, by simply having all the elements stacked vertically one on top of each other from MTR upwards, you lose that horizontal glue which many ways is what Jane Jacobs and others have been talking about for some time. So that was interesting to see that and understand how that works. The question relates to your first statistic of 24% of land being built up and therefore the rest not being built up. And whether that has anything to do with the high, whether you know, whether you talked to your colleagues as Christine yesterday had in a way provoked with Dr. Chow, some level of integration, whether that has anything to do with the high health quality, life expectancy and other things. But you may have missed but I know you read that some of the research we've done with HKU shows very clearly that some of the residents in these high density areas really do feel the pressure. Simple question then is this, at what point would you release more land? In terms of these issues of health, at what point would you do that? Is there a point that... Well it's not that we are hoarding land, not to release in the market. I have just briefly mentioned the difficulties to provide land. Last week we launched another public engagement to engage the public, talk about new ways to form more land for providing housing needs, more spacious environments and so on. And that has already immediately drawn some criticism. Why do you want to contemplate reclamation again? Although it is definitely outside of the Victoria Harbour. So it is not a matter of when we would release land. It's a question of how we could build up land that we could release when there is a need. But of course in a short term, this year I have seen very aggressive land release program, land sale program, which is quite unprecedented. We have sold one piece after another in order to meet the housing target as well as the demand from various ways. But I just want to comment on your first observation. I think with those stack up developments and all these rail projects, it cuts both ways. Of course there is always very convenience to develop property developments above railway stations. It contributes to that efficient public transport control over the automobiles. But what we have lost as a result is the streets and the human scale. I will leave it to Jimmy, the director planning to talk to you in greater detail later on. Jimmy will have another session on the planning side. So in taking a city forward, there is no perfect solutions. It is always trying to strike the right balance, taking all factors into account. And those all factors will go beyond my portfolio. So the health factors that Dr. Chow has talked about and also the political side of things, how the society is prepared to accept. For example, if we want our people to have more spacious housing units like Singapore, we will have to develop far more land. I think Singapore's figure compared to our 24 is 50, something. One last question, Professor Ho. I'm impressed by the way you work out some consensus for the urban renewal strategy. And I'm also very encouraged by the initiative that the government is taking to release more land. Because I think it's really necessary if we want to diversify our economic base. But I do have a question regarding the segregation that you mentioned about that. Because to me, to reduce that segregation is very easy. If you can reduce the cost of transportation and to the extent that already you have very effective railway links. And to the extent that the social cost of carrying passengers doesn't really change that much, you know, for a longer distance trip or a shorter distance trip. It really makes sense to reduce the cost of transportation for people living in Tinshawai. You know, if you just do that, then you have people who will not mind going to the city, you know, because it's so easy. You know, it's only half an hour and there will be in Chim Sachi and Central. So I think just by that very easy policy, you can reduce that segregation problem immediately. Thank you. Professor Ho, can I just give you this response noted? Because transport falls outside of my portfolio and I have reminded myself not to go beyond my portfolio, especially into transport. Because on another occasion, I gave myself a little problem by talking about my dreams in terms of transport for Hong Kong. I want more water taxi, I want marines, I want making bicycles a more integral part of Hong Kong's transport network and I caused myself a little bit of a problem. I hope the message will be taken to the necessary department. Thank you very much. It's very nice to see you and I hope that LSE cities will bring back more conferences to Hong Kong. Thank you.