 I'm Dave Vellante, wikibon.org, and we're here with Andre Kemp, who's to my left. Andre's with VMware. Andre, good to see you again. Yeah, it's great to be here, it's fantastic. And Richard Probst, who's a VP at SAP. Richard, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Dave, good to see you. And Bernard Shilski, from EMC. Good to see you again. Now, Andre and Bernard, we were on theCUBE last week at SAP Sapphire, which was a great event. Richard, I presume you were there. Yeah, great show. In force. So why don't we break that down? Richard, what were you guys trying to accomplish at Sapphire, and do you think you succeeded at that? Well, there were several big messages, but the number one message out of Sapphire was run like never before. So it's really time to put your foot on the gas and really go, and that SAP is there to help our customers do that with our partners. And then behind that message, there's certainly stuff we wanted to talk to people about, HANA, the in-memory database, our cloud strategy, and really all the product that we're delivering right now. You know, I thought, Andre, it was an interesting juxtaposition, you had the compare, for instance, EMC world with Sapphire. I mean, this is a technology show. Sapphire is a business show, but there was a lot of technology at Sapphire. I mean, we heard a lot about HANA, right? We heard a lot about MOVAL, which is technology. It's cool technology, but it's consumer. We heard a lot about personalization, but so what's your takeaway from Sapphire? Well, I think the takeaway is that, as Richard was saying, run anywhere, run anything, and specifically from a virtualization standpoint. I think one of the key things that was coming out of there was that you can actually take your largest SAP system, use technology from EMC, such as VBlock and HANA, also from EMC as well, virtualize that on the VMware platform quite successfully. It doesn't matter if you're running Oracle, SQL, whatever database as well, completely 100% virtualized. Yeah, we're going to talk about that. And Bernard, now we're here in your backyard here, EMC world. You guys started all with cloud, meets big data, about a year and a half ago or so. And you heard a little bit from SAP about big data. Big data, we call it big, fast data, but you guys, that's really major themes, transformation. What's the vibe at EMC world for you, and what's your angle on all this? Yeah, it's been amazing. I mean, coming here from Sapphire to EMC world, is really where SAP meets the infrastructure. So going back to maybe putting that on you, my takeaway from Sapphire was the key one is, oh, SAP is going to be a database vendor. And naturally as a database vendor, there's so much closer to the infrastructure, which is where we are. So I think the vibe here also is we are going in line. If you look at the way we name things, I mean, SAP calls it big data, we've been calling it big data. It's really going across one line. The way we market it, the way that we put the value proposition out, and it's really going back to the MOU and the joint cooperation that we're doing, it is really that SAP has embraced the role, like embracing cloud, putting the applications on there, making mobility real, on putting data on accessibility, where and so forth. This is where we as the EMC and SAP are teaming up. It's about time, it's the right time, it's a lot of fun, I have to assure you, and it's all for the good of the customer. So that really makes me feel good. And actually, yes, it's very technical. It's two great shows all around customers, which is the main thing. So I feel very okay with Sapphire. I feel the same great way here in EMC world. Yeah, there's an interesting dynamic going on. And so we at theCUBE, we love to handicap the horses on the racetrack, right? So, you know, Joe Tucci was talking this morning about the waves of IT. Now he's always talked about the waves of IT in the context of when new waves come along, you get new winners and new losers. And that's always happened in this business. And I think it's going to happen again this time, but there's something different, and that's the following. The IT business, the enterprise business, is largely an oligopoly now. You've got a few large whales, maybe four, five, six, that really control the chessboard. That's true. And now you've got two companies, EMC and SAP, that are the small of the big. Now, I've made a prediction that EMC and VMware will be the next $100 billion market cap company. But then there's this little company that's going to mess up my prediction, which is SAP. You know, you're right there, you're a little bit ahead of those guys now. So it's a really interesting dynamic where, you know, these companies, these large companies, they have a lot of cash. They've got a huge customer base. They're not going anywhere overnight. I mean, they're very strong. They're close to their customers. So now you see a really interesting dynamic with EMC and, of course, VMware aligning with SAP to solve some of these customer problems around cloud, around data, data in memory, or in your guys' case, big data, certainly EMC and VMware starting to make big data plays. So my question to you, Richard, is what's your take on the partnership between SAP and EMC and VMware? Is it, you know, a lot of people think it's the enemy of my enemy as my friend, but it feels like it's a little bit more than that. Maybe give us some color on that. I think it's a lot more than that, David. And you know, I think that Tutu was absolutely right. There are waves, but if you go down to the beach and you watch the waves come in, there's a gap between waves. You know, it's not waves all the time. There's a wave and a gap and a wave and a gap. And we're going through a time of change right now. So for a long time, customers have been kind of consolidating, figuring out what they've got, getting their costs under control, getting their operation under control. But now the customers are ready to really burst out and grow again. And it's time to solve problems that they couldn't solve before. Problems that you have to solve with big data, with cloud, with mobile. They're trying to figure out how do I get ahead, how do I get the competitive advantage and solve these new problems and get on the front of this wave, right? Get on the crest of this wave and really ride it. Now you're right that SAP is not as big as some of the other massive players in this industry. We hope that we're big enough to have changed the world and small enough to move quickly. And if you get that balance just right, you can really make a lot of stuff happen. But we for sure can't do it by ourselves. So we have to work with great companies like VMware and EMC to really deliver on what the customers are asking for. This partnership is a very strong partnership and we're really happy to be working together. And Bill on just what he just said, the key words are relevance. I mean, it's being irrelevant to the business at hand. And that's, I think with all three companies, SAP, VMware and EMC, are actually bringing up to the business and saying, you're now going to transform the way I'm going to go to market and do business and actually impact the bottom line. Seriously impact the bottom line. Well, it's interesting to do it. And it starts at the top with Tucci, with McDermott, with Schnabe, my co-host John Furrier did a little social cam with Tucci last night and Joe is not Mr. Social Media. John's got the camera. And what he mentioned McDermott and Joe lit up. Oh yeah, we know those guys. We know those guys really well. It goes down into the field. So again, the dynamic that I see is when you get two large companies with big install bases who know what they're doing, a lot of cash, a lot of good execution ethos, some really interesting things can happen. The other thing about Sapphire that I noticed, I mean, you think of SAP, you think of, you know, big, lot of function obviously in the core applications, but it's big, it's complicated, it's hard to change. What you heard from SAP last week at Sapphire was flexibility, speed, personalization, mobility, all the hot trends cloud. Absolutely. And Lars was sort of the centerpiece with success factors as a big part of the cloud strategy. So you see that coming together and now Andre, virtualization is the underpinning of that simplification effort. And you were talking at the top of the show or at the top of the segment about how people are virtualizing these mission critical applications and that's becoming real, isn't it? Absolutely. And I think the role of the database is really going to go the way that Dodo here real quick. When I mean real quick IT terms in three to four years, I mean the way that you have these traditional relationship databases to where you have these monolithic type of landscapes. I mean SAP knows that in order to bring that agility and mobility, it's going to have to have a way to quickly move that data around. And that's where Hannah's going to be as the game changer, right? We're already seeing it from the BW side of the house, the business intelligence, we're outside of the house, wait till they bring that into the OLTP side of the house. Then it's it, game over. Why would you need to actually have a legacy that they're actually starting to use that term now? A legacy database architecture and that kind of mobility is just critical and of course, virtualization will be able to take advantage of that up and down the stack. Yeah, obviously we're seeing more traction with Hannah. It was a pretty new concept, you know, last year at Sapphire, he had some proof points. One of the C, I guess the Executive Chairman of McLaren said, quote, we are blown away by the capabilities of Hannah. I thought that was a good, it was a decent testimonial. But McLaren has always been really smart about collecting data. They collect data from every point in the car and every inch of the lap, they're pulling down that data. But the point is, it's not about gathering together petabytes and petabytes and data, it's about figuring out what the real meaning is, about finding the needle in the haystack and really digging out where the value is in that data. And to do that, you've got to combine big data with fast data. So you've got to get in memory. You've got to be able to run queries thousands or hundreds of thousands of times faster. McLaren's early at seeing the value of this and so are some other customers. But the truth is, this thing's taking off like wildfire. The fastest product we've ever brought to market did 160 million its first year, which was half a year. So- Euro. Yes. Right, right, yes, that's Euro. Euros in a half a year and just is going on from there. So we're seeing wonderful uptake. The early adopter customers are already figuring out how to take value from it. And everybody else is saying, this is too good to pass up, I got to get on this quickly. They're right, they're absolutely right. This is changing the- I mean, it is early, but that's a good number. That's sizable, it's meaningful. There's a lot of proof points you can pull from that. And SAP's messaging was very strong around it. You can see the commitment. I mean, if you're an SAP customer and you're not thinking about how to enable mobile and HANA, then you're just not paying attention. Well, then we should be talking. Let's put it that way. All right, right. So fair enough. Now, having said that, let's see. I guess it was Snabe who said, imagine a world where all data's in memory and you don't have to have a traditional disk-based database. So Bernard, I have to ask you again, you're EMC, you're all about supporting those traditional disk-based databases. So what does that mean for you? So first of all, I mean, you know that we are in the, more in the storage software business. So we're attaching classical disks, we're attaching flash and everything. It's about to be able to replicate data. So it's- You have to sell a lot of hardware. Come on, guys. Oh, yeah, sure. Good margins. But it's also a lot of software. So I think, when was the disk invented? Like, I think it was by IBM in 56, okay? And in 56 it was invented because main memory wasn't sufficient, okay? So yes, a lot of stuff fits in memory, but I mean, there is an exponential data growth almost 30 or 50 times. And if I asked any of you guys, do you ever believe that all of the data that's being collected will ever reside only in memory? I'd be hard-pressed to believe that you say, like, yes, sure. For operationalizing the data, putting it in memory, yes, good idea. But there's always more data to be looked at. I mean, look at what large chemical companies are doing with Isilon. They're putting like 10 petabytes and more on a single file system that they then mine. I mean, even with compression, you cannot put that in memory. So I think EMC offers a wide choice of solutions in any ranges. So we are supporting the HANA appliance. We're bringing disaster tolerance to HANA and all the good stuff that's needed in a base based on disk, based on flash, or be it if we kind of replicate from flashcards directly or even main memory. So all doable with our technology. So I'm looking at this very positively. It's like a kind of a running gag. You can't make fun of EMC as the disc company, but I think those guys who think EMC is just a disc company haven't paid attention the last five to 10 years because we evolved clearly beyond that. I mean, we are a full set infrastructure provider. Look at RSA, look at all the stuff. I mean, we've got a choice for kind of every problem. So I think it's an easy statement to make and it puts a smile on my face, but it doesn't put any fear in my brain or anything. And petabytes of RAM are still pretty expensive. It is pretty expensive. Let me say this. I mean, we've been talking engineering level like phase change memory, okay? Like five years ago, we said like, oh, it's coming light of this year. Are we talking today? And it's again, engineering sound. It's like four years from now and so forth. We're going to see both. So, and we're prepared, that's a short story. We had Bill McDermott on a couple of cubes back and John asked him about, yeah, anytime he asks McDermott about Oracle, he gets his alpha up and it's good. And I basically said, look, we're not a hardware company. You know, we're staying, we're sticking to our knitting and that's really changed Oracle pretty quite dramatically. You know, Exadata had a lot of initial buzz. David Floyer on Wikibon just wrote a piece just sort of questioning some of the value propositions of Exadata. I think it's a pretty narrow one. They got a lot of momentum, the billion dollar backlog starting to get eaten into. And now you're seeing things like HANA, EMC's reasserting itself. Now it's a game of leapfrog in the technology business, which we love, right? Yeah, but there's a real differentiated strategy here. We're not picking one, frankly, failing hardware company and putting all of our chips on that. And I say that with a little bit of angst because I used to work for Sun, I worked for Sun for 10 years, very sorry to see where they've gone to. But the fact is they were starting to lose their luster. Spark is dead. And Oracle picked them up. Steve Mills, that's a Steve Mills quote, not a Dave Vellante quote. Spark is dead. No way would SAP do this. Instead, what we do is we partner with the best. And there's more than one best, which is the great thing for customers. There's competition. Our partners are out trying to beat each other up and our customers just win as a result of that. So we love that. We love to work with motivated, brilliant, creative partners. And yeah, there's a competitive market out there but this is the way the world works best. I mean, we like to be challenged. I mean, Gelsinger said that this morning with the LinkedIn example, and yeah, we're sure. I mean, we can do it. We show it every day. Yeah, I think actually, to be quite frank, Oracle is doing a disservice to their customers quite frankly. I mean, their stance on support, their stance on locking them in to a certain stack of technology that most of that stack is dead and going into legacy mode and the pricing and the support they're putting for these big dollars, these customers continually go on and invest in this technology that allows them no flexibility. I think it's now that's the time, specifically when you're looking at transforming your data center and you're going to have to change your platform most likely from big iron Unix base to X86. That is now, now is the time to have the serious discussion of what is my database platform choice. Well, so let's talk about that because you're talking about virtualizing SAP. A lot of times when you're virtualizing SAP, you're virtualizing Oracle along with it. And there's SAP embracing VMware and virtualization, generally, Oracle doesn't embrace anything other than OVM. Customers, many customers don't want OVM. So Oracle has this sort of specter of services threat hanging over them. We've written on Wikibon, look, damn the torpedoes, you should go and virtualize Oracle and we've done major studies on these and generally speaking, there's strategies that you can take to minimize your risk but I'm wondering what you're seeing in the field with regard to that threat of no service and it does scare away some customers. How do you deal with that? Yeah, so absolutely. I would say that that's probably the best piece of written propaganda that I've ever seen from an ISV company, ever. I mean, it's written to instill fear, uncertainty and doubt. It is the mother of all fun. It is absolutely written to, so whoever wrote it probably got like a bit of a shock in fact. I think Larry wrote that. He might have wrote it himself correctly. But the fact of the matter is that when we talk to customers specifically, we can say without a doubt that there has not been one customer that has had to rebuild a physical server in order to get troubleshooting, in order to get support. One, we do not support, it doesn't mean certification and that's the word that Oracle likes to use. Nobody certifies anybody. Support is completely different from certification. Oracle runs on operating systems, right? That's what is the support, crux of the matter. We support operating systems where there go, you can run your Oracle quite nicely without having to worry about getting support and you can easily get support through SAP or we'll call Oracle Direct. We even took it even further. We said, okay, we're gonna put a stake in the sand. We will provide you Oracle support. All across the application set. We have three Oracle masters on staff. So customers with their existing VMware support contract can call and say, I have an Oracle problem, whatever it may be, EBS or just regular, relational database specific and put in a request and we will give you that support if you're gonna get drama from Oracle. So we've actually put our stake in and said, look, we can provide the same or even better support than Oracle can. Yeah, well, it's again, it's an interesting dynamic and I mean, I know, remember the old main frame days with IBM had you locked in and somebody put the Amdahl coffee cup on and they'd get a $2 million discount. This sort of similar strides. I know CIOs that have said, hey, I'm doing a DB2 pilot product and it saved me millions. Now the problem is, you go to pharma, for example, there's no DB2 in pharma. Right now you got HANA coming along. It's a new concept. It's an alternative. It's not Hadoop because Hadoop's a whole different animal. We can talk about that a little bit, but so Richard, that to me is an interesting wedge potentially that's going to help customers a lot because customers are stressing out about this. Their Oracle customers biggest complaint is, I have Oracle negotiations. It's a full-time job. I got to treat it like a project. So can you guys be an alternative, an emerging alternative? Is data that lever that you can use? I mean, Larry has made some pretty incendiary statements like SAP getting a database business is like me playing Colby one-on-one. How do you respond to that? Yeah, so I mean, Larry loves to be quotable and he does a great job of it. But the truth is- We love it too. I mean, I have to say. It makes good press. It sounds out of fun. It also asks him not to do it, but- But what's the reality here? The reality is the world is changing, the industry is changing and the reason is because the technology is going crazy. So I'm a technologist. I love watching this stuff happen. Moore's law keeps going, the crank keeps turning, memory keeps coming down, cores keep getting faster, and you can do things now that you couldn't do before. All of the stuff that was built in databases, buffer management, heck, the difference between OLAP and OLTP. All of this was invented in the 80s and 90s as workarounds because the machines weren't fast enough to actually run databases. The way they were originally conceived by IBM going back to CAD and date and the original vision, but the machines just weren't up to that original vision. So you had to do things like copy the data. Oh, and then copy the data again, and then copy the data again and now run some aggregates on it. It's all workarounds and it's all pointless now because now Moore's law has caught up. You can do this stuff in memory, real time, instant results. We've got queries. We've seen our customers run queries. They know how long that query runs. They run it every single week. And now on HANA, it runs 100,000 times faster. So industries change when you get something that's 100 times faster, but when you get something that's 100,000 times faster, there's no stopping that. In memory is the answer. And I think that, and Hasso actually, the portions of his talk that I could follow were actually quite interesting, where he talked about, look, there's not a lot we can do for OLTP performance. Maybe we can turn some knobs and get that up two or three acts and he talked about aggregates and he talked about the reasons why. But to my earlier point, data is the wild card now. And the type of the massive amounts of unstructured data is really that lever that you can use to change the game if it's literally 100,000 times faster. If it's 100 times faster, it's going to change things, as you said. And that to me is what's most interesting here. People talk about the three Vs of big data, the volume, the velocity, and the variety. There's a fourth, which is value. And that's to me what HANA brings, is being able to unlock that value. Which we're saying, what does it actually mean? You need to sift through that big data quickly. And the fastest way to do it is to put it in memory. And you can't put it all in memory all at once because very few people can afford petabytes of memory. So you need both. You need the big data and you need the fast in memory access to the data that you're working with right now. Need them to work together. And this is why SAP loves to be working with EMC, with VMware, to help our customers get everything that they need. The solution that works as a whole. So what are the specifics of the relationship? How does it all work? How do you guys go to market together? Do you actually make sales calls together? Well, I would say that there's really four parts of the relationship, if I may. So there's about first products. And we're working to bring our products together. So from SAP Landscape Virtualization Manager, working with vSphere, we're already looking at how could we integrate it perhaps with vCloud Director, working with EMC to integrate it directly at the storage level. So getting the products to work together. Secondly, support. So none of this finger pointed. Getting our support folks to be talking to each other and making sure that the customer doesn't have to keep picking up the phone but just gets served right away. Which makes them into third, services. We're bringing services together, integrated, coordinated between the three companies to help the customer move forward. And then the fourth thing is, what's the roadmap? They don't want to see a point in time. They want to see that we've got longer term plans that we're working together. We've got next generation and next generation and next generation behind that, already in development. And so the three companies are working very closely together on a new, next generation way of managing complex systems on the cloud. Yeah, and you know, we saw the VCE coalition, sort of as the harbinger to relationships like this. You guys must have learned a lot from that, I'm sure. We got a break. This is great. I really appreciate you guys coming on again. And Richard, you know, great summary. Good luck with the partnership. Thank you. Thank you. And the rest of the event here. This is SiliconANGLE's continuous coverage of EMC world. We'll be right back to wrap the day and set up the next two days. Keep it right here at SiliconANGLE.tv. This is Dave Vellante and we'll be right back.