 Just mark him, yes. Exactly. I bet he's not going to be here tonight. You snooze, you lose. No longer. Looks like, yeah. Although he could still come. Have you seen him? I haven't seen him. No, no, no. Just mark him, yes. For both. For both. He'd like to dress up for both. Trying to go win the prize money on the prime. And he'll be bringing his pets. He'll be riding. He signed it. He'll be riding one of those bicycles with a big wheel. Should I mark him, yes? Okay. Uh, why don't you mark him? He was here yesterday. You've got to get a ride. You got to get a ride and all right. This is a notice of the 15th regular meeting of the 2010-2016. 2010-2011 Common Council and this is customary our city work. Sue Richards will read the quote of the evening Despite the immense challenges that we have faced and continue to face we refuse to indulge in negativity or pessimism We are an organization that believes in empowering people to be their best Thank You Sue roll call, please Lauren here Here Bowers and Decker here Hammond here Hannah here Hi, come in here. Ah, they're kiddles in here Montemay or their ranch life here Racelor here Samson here Vanderweel their versey here and long a man excused 15 presents. We have a quorum now Alderman Decker will lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank You Jeremy looking for approval of the minutes of the former Common Council meeting thank you. Thank you mayor I would move to approve the minutes of the last Common Council meeting We have a motion in a second under discussion There is none all in favor say aye. Aye opposed motion carries Confirmation of mayors appointments attorney McLean. Thank you. Your honor. Honorable members of the council here by submit the following appointments for your confirmation to the business improvement district David Hanneman Paul Weaver David gas and Tom Brickley all Terms expiring 9 13 2013 Eileen Simmons Mike Miller and Mary Christian Terms expiring 9 11 2011 signed by the mayor for a motion Move to approve the appointments second. We have a motion in a second under discussion Alderman Hammond Mr. Mayor, I'm not sure if this is appropriate, but I'd like to vote on mr. Gas separately. I would need to abstain from that vote Okay, or you can just abstain from the entire got it There are no two votes Okay, is there any further discussion? There is no roll call, please Stain abstain Heidemann I Montemay or I Raceler Samson and a wheel and verse E. I 13 eyes I'm sorry 14 eyes one abstention two abstentions. That's what I said 13 eyes Motion carries Other appointments attorney McLean Deputy Chief Chuck Butler to be considered for the board of electrical examiners to fill the unexpired term of Chief Inspector Robert cuts mode which term expires April 23 2013 Move to approve the appointment second. We have a motion and a second to approve the appointment under discussion If there is no discussion roll call, please I'm Motion carries moves us on to Public forum Before we get going with public forum I just want to remind everybody We do this when it's election time whether it's candidates anything that happens on the ballot for the election tomorrow We just want to remind the people in the public forum that this is not a place where we allow any campaigning We would ask that you refrain from campaigning vote for so-and-so vote for this vote for that Just keep to your comments and no campaigning and that's what we would ask, okay First on the list is Jack words Evening Jack, could we have your home address, please 47 Winnebago place And you will have five minutes sir Mayor I am members of the council and citizens of Sheboygan. I Recently had a flyer left at my home from the firefighters union. It contained a section called unanswered questions That section raised some questions of my own About subsidy For an example in an auto accident where glass gasoline and antifreeze needs to be cleaned up Why is this a subsidy to a private ambulance? They surely cannot stay and clean up that degree that debris Isn't this one of the many jobs of the fire department? It has always been part of the duties performed by the fire department and Furthermore, I am not aware of a taxpayer subsidy to a private provider if there is none Why does the union ask who pays for something that doesn't exist? Another question I have is where in the referendum does it propose to cut the number of ambulances anywhere? Does the union have information that the public doesn't? The union asked willing to put our lives in jeopardy due to layoffs It is the job of any city department to do the best they can under any circumstances Is the union saying they are unable to do so? I sure hope not Such ambiguous questions only tend to confuse and frighten voters All five stations could remain intact if the ambulance was once again returned to the private sector Tomorrow in voting think of the lyrics of an old song as I will be doing That is to accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative. Thank you. Thank you Jack Thank you Jack next next to be Dennis touch log Can I have your home address please? Dennis touch log 38 16 South 11 38 16 South 11 Okay Mayor council should buy in residence To the marks. I'm going to make a relative to the ambulance referendum First of all, I'm a taxpayer of Sheboygan member of Sheboygan County taxpayers alliance Alliance is your watchdog of the city government with primary purpose to watch over our taxing demands I was a council member in 1988 When this which voted to remove the ambulance service from the police department and go to private provider It worked well for 20 years Until the council was swayed to place the service in the fire department and the pretext of making money When real reason was employee protection We were not paying for a service unless using it We now pay 24365 Due to our audit demands, which with a threat of legal action. We found there was a loss of income for 2009 As a council member up here for 25 years My main concern was and still is to minimize tax increases We must lower this We will no longer require for added men and ambulances if the services We put back in private service there by a saving over for $400,000 There will not be any loss of services The fighter fighters will go back to what they were doing prior to January 1st 2008 private provider presently has Five ambulances for commitment previously had seven when they were working privately Chief is concerned about losing employees Well, so did one's cross three years ago Some of those same employees now work for the city fire department as paramedics Paramedic has the same training training be it he or she private or union member We must start somewhere to cut costs and there's room for a great deal of cost savings a Structure of the fire department's top heavy with supervisory personnel One supervisor for each two and a half men By the end of 2011, there will be 22 individuals Cost us taxpayers $100,000 each you can save two to three million dollars by removing sleepovers and go to shifts Department is overstaffed overpaid lots of money to be saved No vote will continue service As now mr. Teshla we cannot speak of voting on any referendum questions We cannot we cannot campaign All right Why isn't the population should weigh in 200 or 250,000 people The fire department ambulance are not a primary concern of those people Just ask the 32 fire department members to live outside of our city Pay no city taxes Free fire protection and have orange cross as our ambulance provider. I would say we are subsidizing 32 firefighters at a cost of two and a half million dollars Do not let fear and intimidation given by fire department Swayu ever the same as it was before December 31st 2007 future salary increases we taxpayers have no control over possibility of losing six firefighters in 2011 will reduce services and make a private ambulance more viable four five one nine one one Ambulance numbers remains on my refrigerator Thank you Thank You Dennis next next on the list is Dulce Johnson, and I have your home address please 1306 North 3rd Street Mayor Ryan city clerk Richards City Attorney McLean members of the council and citizens After being told for weeks that the shank ambulance audit would not be available until after the November election Suddenly it was available on October 18th one minute before the 5 p.m. Deadline for information that was requested on September 30th Per a shank CPA the city finance department received the audit September 23rd or 24th The audit shows that even using the marginal accounting analysis the fire department ambulance business lost over $86,000 in 2009 Which translates to a hundred and sixty three thousand dollars using a cash accounting analysis? Why was this information withheld? Throughout the six listening sessions citizens and taxpayers were led to believe that the information was not available It appears that those in attendance may have been deceived by the finance director mr. Amodio If that proves to be the case I Believe mr. Amodio should resign and if chief Herman was complicit in this he should also resign I Attended the finance committee meeting last Monday the executive budget cuts over five hundred thousand dollars from public works 300,000 from the library and almost 250,000 from the police It adds ten thousand to the fire department budget, but will still rely result and laying off six firemen Chief Herman stated that he was moving ahead with closing a station with or without the ambulance He indicated that he would probably close the downtown station, which has the most calls of any of the five stations Mayor Ryan added that it is the most saleable property, which is obviously the number one criteria for closing a fire station and That if the city retained the ambulance business, they would operate it for as much revenue as they can get Which would mean doing non-emergency transports to Milwaukee Fond du Lac in Green Bay Chief Herman has often said that he needs orange crosses a backup, but then proceeds to take more business away from them This is in keeping with his writing in 2007 when he said Maybe orange cross will still fold and then we'll take over the entire Sheboygan area and hire 12 more firefighters When asked how the department could do out-of-town Transports with six layoffs chief Herman said that he can handle it with the current roster Which says loud and clear that the department is overstaffed Out-of-town transports mean two firemen paramedics would be away from the city for up to three hours I recall at the time of Sly's fire on 8th Street Alderman Hannah who at that time was chairman of public protection and safety Said on the council floor that he would not approve of the department doing out-of-town Transports because all the personnel were needed here The department is doing non-emergency transports without council approval The fire department cites a 22% success rate for cardiac arrest patients compared with only 6% for Sheboygan County This is understandable given the need to travel across greater distances to provide health What they do not mention however is that orange cross had a success rate of 26% when they provided service in 2007 it should be noted that all paramedics have the same training and continuing education requirements as We have learned the fire department ambulance business is very costly to the taxpayers That should be no surprise and as much as the police department lost $400,000 in 1988 when they operated roving ambulances while also acting as police officers More recently. Mr. Amodio has said that the fire department ambulance business is probably not sustainable This was demonstrated by former finance director Terry Hansen when he created his five scenarios the scenario without the ambulance showed the smallest deficit The city can staff all five stations without the ambulance reduced personnel by six and save over $450,000 in salaries and benefits from the fire department budget the cost of a private service are borne only by those who use it Department business which is subsidized by the taxpayers Government should not do what the private sector can do I And another concerned citizen were out walking the neighborhood Saturday with information about the referendum as We approached a house with a red and white sign a man stepped out of the door and began asking questions related to the referendum issue He obviously recognized me because at one point in the conversation He asked if I was an alderman when the police ran the ambulance. I said I was He asked the person with me for his name and in turn told us his name He went on to say that he is a paramedic that he had created the fire union referendum advertising campaign and concluded by saying And I quote we're going to kick your ass That's been the tone of the fire unions campaign bullies on the playground Intimidating small business owners going to homes of elderly citizens and frightening them case in point Fireman told a man in his late 80s Would you like a minute? Going to homes of elderly citizens and frightening them case in point fireman told a man in his late 80s that he had to vote for the fire department Because if there was a fire at his house, they might not be able to put it out City Attorney McLean was privy to part of that conversation Fireman told another senior citizen that he had to take his black and yellow sign down or they'd be out of a job Angry desperate childish their inappropriate behavior needs to be investigated by the fire and police commission Tomorrow voters will have the opportunity to decide if the fire department should continue to operate an ambulance business Or if it should be returned to a non-government entity the choice should be easy let reason and common sense prevail Thank you Next on the list is Richard Hartman Richard can I have your home address, please 24 23 North 23rd Street right here in Cheboygan Thank you Citizens of Cheboygan and beyond You might find what I have to say tonight a little bit different from what you've been hearing these past few weeks It has to do with audits Having satisfied an audit is of great significance to those undergoing one and rightly so for not only is and Anxiety relieved the word audit itself has an authoritarian and unquestionable ring to it Using the words by nationally recognized standards Further reinforces any statements of certification Or does it Not too long ago on August 14th to be exact The Cheboygan press printed a small news item that told of the Cheboygan Falls JC bingo operation The JC's had in place a bingo chairman whose duties Were overseeing all aspects of the game including bookkeeping and control of the bank account Because bingo functions require a state license They were subject to state audit and The bingo chairman was the person to supply the state auditing board with the financials from these games Here is what it gets a bit sticky The bingo chairman was pilfering money from the proceeds collected and in order to balance the books He provided the state auditing board with adulterated figures The outcome was that the state audit showed no problems But that was because they were furnished with figures that could only show the wanted analysis Other JC personnel were also keeping records and upon their furnishing the state with the true figures Another state audit was conducted and investigators found that $26,000 was unaccounted for so much for the reliability of audits and Inordinate number of audits are not worth the paper. They are written on unless they contain some sort of probe to the authenticity of records provided Especially when there has been a suggestion of Deceptive reports Thank you Mr. Hartman next last on the list would be Patricia a home Patricia, can I have your home address, please? 2602 a Camelot Boulevard right and you will have five minutes. Thank you Good evening I would first like to thank those of you who have allowed the issue of ambulance service in the city of Sheboygan to be put to a referendum This action has finally made it possible for the residents of the city of Sheboygan To express their viewpoint in regard to the unpopular way in which this service was taken away from orange cross ambulance three years ago In the past five months. I've appeared before this common counsel and its public protection and safety committee half a dozen times I have no political aspirations or affiliations and never anticipated doing any public speaking However, I became so incensed when the city's high-ring freeze was lifted on June 21st by the mayor's High-breaking vote to hire four additional firefighters, but I could no longer continue to just sit back and take it Like many honest hard-working citizens of this city I spent my entire life here working for small private businesses and raising two children as a single mom Throughout my 44 and a half years of employment My top salary was $12 and 50 cents an hour with no pension or retirement benefits. I Received no public assistance of any kind during all that time But I helped pay through real estate taxes the high wages overly generous benefits and Exorbitant pensions of the municipal employees that enjoyed high-end lifestyles and carefree retirement years Now we are in times of financial struggles and rampant unemployment and Senior citizens like myself who rely only on a frozen monthly social security check Find it unconscionable for municipal workers to demand annual pay increases and continuing golden benefits and pensions This common counsel had the intelligence to try to cut spending by creating a hiring freeze and End to the continuous insanity and growing animosity between the taxpayers and the well-off municipal employees But that hiring freeze was lifted several times already this year For those of you with any compassion and empathy, I think you can see why the struggling taxpayers are so infuriated Well tomorrow is election day our day The taxpayers opportunity to voice their thoughts opinions and dissatisfaction with the unfairness in today's world Remember it is not only homeowners that are affected by ever-increasing taxes Everyone of voting age is affected by the way money is spent by this common counsel the department heads and our mayor If you are a renter increases in government spending Results in higher property taxes for your landlord Who will undoubtedly pass those tax increases on to you in the form of higher rent? I? Attended three of the six listening sessions and all I learned was that this new city finance director Uses the same kind of accounting methods that we see in Madison in Washington It's impossible to follow their numbers and logic makes no sense to the common person and Results in the same bulging debt that must be made up by the unaware taxpayers The numbers presented by the Greater Sheboygan committee were clear and concise and Presented in a way that the taxpayers and citizens could understand With all the businesses that moved out of Sheboygan recently and with all the vacant foreclosed and listed houses for sale Property values have dropped dramatically Making for a much lower tax base that now has to come up with the same or more Money to carry on the services enjoyed in the past So don't be fooled Something has to be given up in order to control spending At the election polls tomorrow We have a great opportunity to lighten the taxpayers load by putting the ambulance service where it belongs Back in the private sector where we were we cannot speak of the vote tomorrow That's campaigning. I said the same thing to the other gentlemen up here Okay, I think so A city the physical size and population of Sheboygan does not require 73 firefighters a number that can be reduced by eliminating the ambulance service No one has ever disputed the fact that we have very competent professional firefighters and And a reduction in their number will not result in having to pay unemployment to them The city obtained many of our firefighter paramedics from Orange Cross when the city took away that private sector contract and As chief Herman already indicated the positions eliminated will undoubtedly result in those employees being rehired By the private sector ambulance contractor. Excuse me Pat. Would you like your additional minute? No, I'm finished Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you Pat That is all for public forum Vice president we're in flesh. Thank you your honor one of the other rules that was not discussed prior to rules of the council is the We don't really allow for personal attacks of city officials And I think some comments probably crossed the line between politics and personal attacks specifically regarding the shank audits and Attacks on the abilities and intent perhaps of our finance director James Amodio As well as chief Herman was mentioned as complicit in something And I would like the opportunity while unusual for those people to respond to the issue I know and specifically with the shank audit. We did receive email this week from the city attorney's office And we did discuss in finance. I think it's up to it's appropriate that that information be passed on to the public as well For those it hadn't been really a thing a personal attack I think I have no no say in this but my recommendation is that we allow those people to respond because they were Your motion to open the floor. Yes We have a motion in a second to open the floor to Both finance director Jim Amodio and chief Herman from the fire department See it's already as well in terms of the shank audits. That's all right. You have any comments regarding That as well We'll have a motion to open the floor to director Amodio In a second all in favor say aye opposed Motion carries the floor is open if you'd like to speak mr. Amodio Thank You mayor members of the council city residents I'd like to start by saying Financial statements for all entities public or private are presented in some reform Using this data that on the surface support your cause is very misleading And unless you understand the detail it is very difficult to present a fair and representation of what the numbers really say I Assume that as a reason why the greater Sheboygan committee never asked to meet and discuss details with me after our initial meeting on September 9th before the listening sessions Throughout all of the listening sessions the city presented financial numbers from 2008 9 actuals 2010 projected in 2011 budget Not once did my office receive a call to discuss any of these by the greater committee Instead they used data that was misleading In 2007 they ignored the fact that the city leased three ambulances Even though the summary financials on our website showed that But the committee stated that the ambulance did not include $551,000 as an expense when in fact it was not the real net expense in 2007 was $16,000 in the latest email I received Regarding revenues and expenses from Fayyir Rainer that was also sent to the Sheboygan press Stated in 2008 it showed more revenue than the city reported The city showed $630,000 of revenue in 2008 and in phase analysis. She showed 737,000 of revenue I Shouldn't even bring this up as it is in the city's favor. However, it is not a correct number Summary financials on the city's website show adjustments to this revenue number and the city has stated the cash it collected for that year was $630,000 in 2009 summary financials showed a loss of $86,651 Without understanding the detail on the surface, this would be correct However, the ambulance fund was charged with an expense of $341,150 that was transferred to the general fund as revenue in 2010 actual cost-to-date information was used by the greater Sheboygan committee to project Abuse of $111,000 that was positive based on 10 and a half months of actual and forecasting the remaining of the year This report of actual costs or cost-to-date was distributed at the finance committee Committee meeting on October 13th 2010 stating that the report was dated October 15th, but that the actual cost was through September 30th This this report was also emailed to all other older persons on October 15th as well The projections by the city were a contribution of 259,000 for 2010 projected Greater Sheboygan committee by using ten and a half months of actual and estimating the balance understated revenue If the data were through October 15th, they should have used nine and a half months not ten and a half months in In addition, the ambulance lease was added in a second time Thus overstating expenses for that year as well The 2007 through 2009 plus the 2010 estimate from Faye Rainer states that this ambulance service lost 201,599 dollars Based on the above the city's numbers show a benefit to the city of 707,291 dollars The difference between these two numbers is 909,000 of understated revenue and overstated costs and this is what the committee wants you the taxpayer to believe I Have been a finance professional for 40 years and I stand by the numbers I have presented to be factual and not misleading as We all know you can take numbers to a certain point and make them support your opinion however Finance professionals including CPAs have a moral obligation to tell the truth and find out all the relevant facts More times than not often buried in the detail before they express their professional opinion Thank you. Thank you director of modio We also have a motion to open the floor to I Anybody opposed to the floor being open chief Herman. We already voted on that Well, it's kind of the timing of it is Thank you, mr. Mayor members of the council, I appreciate the Opportunity to respond. However, I think everybody's just about heard enough on this subject in the last few months Finally tomorrow, we're going to come to a conclusion And I will limit my comments to what I had prepared to say to you originally I Couldn't help but notice on tonight's agenda that there was a communication to reorganize a fire department based on the Manitowoc fire department It seems to me for the past couple months all I've heard is we were wrong in comparing ourselves to Manitowoc fire ambulance service And we should be more like West Bend I have heard alderman and citizens throw around the names of cities like Maple Grove Eden Prairie Bloomington Des Moines and Oak Creek as comparables During the listening sessions the Greater Sheboygan committee continually asked me Why couldn't we be more like the city lacrosse fire department? Coincidentally on Friday of last week. I received a call from a reporter from lacrosse It seems that they have a few citizens and alderman and lacrosse that are questioning why lacrosse fire department can't be more like Sheboygan Are you following that circle here that we're going in? One thing is certain Tomorrow the voters will go to the polls and decide the future of the ambulance service This decision will have an impact on both the short and long-range plan of the fire department Together we must for go move forward with an acceptable plan for public protection and safety This council must now deal with the ramifications of that vote You must give me a clear and concise indication of the level of service. You expect us to provide My firefighters know exactly what I expect of them. I Expect them to strive for zero fire fatalities through effective public education programs fire inspections fast response times and well-executed search and rescue techniques I Expect them to contain every fire to either the room of origin or the structure involved and to do it safely I Expect them to handle each and every call for assistance completely and professionally. I Ask you what are your expectations? What are you look for from your fire department? Are they are they the same expectations as mine? The public made it very clear this past summer They do not like the idea of closing fire stations and reducing response times Our challenge is to meet the public expectations yet in a fiscally responsible manner The decisions are tough, but they must be made before an effective Plan can be drawn up and implemented First and foremost these decisions must be based on expected outcomes and the level of service Our citizens have come to expect from their fire department. Thank you Thank You chief All of my versey Okay I think both Everybody from public forum director Jim Amodio and chief Herman Under mayors announcements. I have a couple different items here First of all sue has something to say regarding her regarding voting tomorrow on her staff It's very brief, but I just wanted the public to know and all of you to know We are expecting a record turnout tomorrow We are expected we're planning as if it were presidential elections So for the city of Sheboygan, that's I'm predicting about 65 percent, which is huge The reason I wanted to say something quickly is my office has been hit with a couple of very severe medical issues Two of us have had some very serious problems with husbands and are ongoing and I've got a staff That is trying to hold on here And I just need to acknowledge them because they are breaking their backs trying to get through this election Without myself and somebody else that's also dealing with her husband So if you see them at the polls when they're delivering or if you see them in the hallway Please tell them. Thank you because we would not have an election without them that would be Linda when everybody knows Linda long and Cheryl Smith and Barb own and send the lane off. So they are really they've stepped up to the plate for me and for one of the gals I think Linda's blushing back there. I see her holding her back. She's sore That says a lot for the dedication of your staff. So thank you The just a couple quick announcements here the budget hearing will be November 15th Which is two weeks from today. I know some people were asking about that The budget hearing will be on the 15th at 7 p.m. Which is our regular council meeting in on Monday the 22nd The budget will be voted upon Monday the 22nd at 7 p.m. In the council chambers just so everybody has that on their schedule Other announcements, I do not have a lot here. I would like to comment a bit on the Happening said in the in the city over the last couple of months and mainly what I would like to speak on is on the behalf of Our finance department We've had a lot of people that have come forward And they have outright declared the honesty of Our finance department of our finance director of our deputy finance director and as our department as a whole I'm here to say tonight that I unequivocally Stand 100% Behind our finance department behind Jim emotio our finance director and behind his figures These people are professionals This is what they do for a living. This is their livelihood. This is their life to insinuate that Our finance department is run like a JC's Bingo game in the Sheboygan Falls is degrading to say the least I Stand behind our figures Whether the referendum on the ambulance goes one way or the other I Stand behind our finance department, and I want that to be now That's all I have. Thank you Alderman Hammond. Mr. Mayor Could you maybe announce where the budget hearing is going to be on the point on the 15th that will be in the council chamber? Okay moving on We have a hearing this evening. This is a hearing regarding the proposed issuance by the city of revenue of revenue bonds in one or more series pursuant to section 66 Point one one zero three of the Wisconsin statutes as amended in a maximum aggregate principal amount Not in excess of six million dollars on behalf of RCS in powers Incorporated is there anybody that would like to be here to be heard For a second time. Is there anybody that would like to be heard? Alderman Hannah. Yeah, just a just a brief comment This is a hot topic in the Wall Street Journal of Communities that abuse this and we follow the rules. So we again, I'd like to Command the chair of the finance committee. This is this is how you're supposed to be using The revenue bonds and promoting the city and doing good things Some communities have stretched the rules. There's one in Florida in particular So I'm real proud of the way we handle it. Thank you Alderman Hannah For a third time. Is there anybody that would like to be heard? President Kittleson, thank you mayor I would say ask that the hearing be closed second. We have a motion in a second to close the hearing under discussion If there is no discussion all in favor say aye opposed the hearing is closed Consent agenda. It's a little mixed up this evening Next up clerk's office. What can I say next up busy clerk's office tonight? So bear with me? Okay, we have 15 1 through 15 15 plus 15 17 and 15 30 All their person president Kittleson. Thank you mayor I move that all our rows be accepted and placed on file All our C's be accepted and adopted and all resolutions and ordinances Second we have a motion and a second under discussion Alderman. I thought somebody buzzed in under discussion If there is no discussion Roll call, please Hey Yeah, hi, Hannah. Hi. Hi, Damon. Hi. Hi, Kittleson. Hi, Montemay or hi Rindflash Racer hi Samson. Hi Vanderweel. Hi, Versi. Hi, Warren. Hi, oh Bowers and Decker. Hi 15 eyes motion carries reports of officers to 15 16 and 15 19 lie over until November 22 15 18 and 15 20 through 15 29 to be referred Alderman Bowers, that's like a question. Yes, I would like 15 23 to be referred To the finance committee a committee of the whole in addition to the public protection and safety Okay, 15 23 by the city clerk submitting a communication from Alderman Bowers regarding a reorganization of the Sheboygan fire department Based on Manitowak's fire department. You want that to go it's going to ppns right now You want that to go to committee of the whole? Yes and the finance And the finance committee. Yes Okay We have another light Alderperson Montemay or thank you. Mr. Mayor on agenda item 15 24 I think that's already been handled. So I would make a motion to file Second We have a motion and a second to file 1524 under discussion Alder president Kittleson. Thank you. Mayor. Can we take 15 47 right along with that? Yes, 47 is 2440 24 being the Communication from Maynard Sonerman regarding his opinion on the finance director's alleged delay in supplying information to the greater Committee and failure in her 1547 is the aro Regarding the emails under discussion And the 1547 being the reply from our city attorney I think the alderman have had a chance to read through that and I think it's been taken care of Okay, and our city attorney did spend two days Doing an internally investigating all of the alderman have been supplied with his response Is there any discussion? filing of 1547 All in favor of filing 1524 and 47 say aye opposed Motion carries. They are filed going back to We do have 1523 by alderman Fowers also going to committee of the whole and finance Yes, we don't need a motion on that that will go to committee of the whole and finance so 1518 and 20 through 29 less 24 to be referred How's that Okay resolutions introduced three 1531 lies over 1532 and 33 lie over until November 22nd those are 1534 through 1538 to be referred report of committee 6 1539 lies over to November 22nd report of committee 7 lies over 1540 and 1541 lies over to November 22nd Now we finally have something to do here 1542 Okay, report of committee 7 1542 by salaries and grievances recommending filing documents relating to the city administrator Alderman Hannah Thank You mr. Mayor This is kind of what happens when there's multiple referrals We have it we had this document in I would like to make a motion that the Report of committee be accepted and adopted we have a motion in a second Please continue. Yeah, it's kind of what happens when there's multiple referrals There would be a financial impact and this requires a fight form and We don't have the fight data in salary and grievances. So we put it on hold Came forward the documents still active in finance He was Held held in finance held in finance correct But it just it gets complicated when there's Alderman or in flesh Thank you, your honor I Agreed the streamline and clear it up In general opposed to multiple referrals because this problem. I just clarification though while it's in hold in finance The document would be dead. Is that correct? It's an attorney to clean here if we vote on this I Believe so Based on that Since we've decided to hold it in finance While there's no five there is no money at this point in time we decided that the two years of the committee work Didn't want to kill this point in time Which would be you know dead? Yes, it can be brought back at a later date But I'd rather keep it under discussion and going to accept this will kill that. Thank you Alderman Bulk Thank you, miss mayor. I would urge my colleagues to vote no on this as well for the very same reason. I find it I Find it inappropriate for us to kill this document after two years of work on this We the discussion we had in the finance committee was no we probably can't afford a city administrator at this point Mayor's going to be mayor for another two years no matter what we do tonight and all the good learning from this committee Could be applied over the next two years so that when if we as a body of 16 think that this is the right thing to do We can tee it up so it the trigger is pulled at the time when the next mayor all election happens So I think it's completely inappropriate for us to flush two years worth of the committee's work Down the toilet and kill it and make us resurrected again Just because we don't have the foresight to say we can't afford this role right now But that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep all the learning and move ourselves toward that structure If you think the structure is the right thing to do so I'm going to vote no on this because I think the right thing To do is to keep the dialogue going and that's what we talked about of finance. Thank you, mr. Mayor Thank you Alderman Bulk Alderman Boren Thank You mayor Ryan. I've got a question for attorney McLean attorney McLean Regarding setting the salary for the mayor's when the mayor runs again in 14 1313 When when does the council have that salary for the mayor's next term? And I guess another way to ask that is when would the council have to make a decision on Whether the mayor's job remains a full-time job or goes to a part-time job And then of course determining what the salary and the duties would be. Thank you I believe by order that's it's You're to set the elected officials full-time elected official salaries 13 months before before the start of the term So That would be some time in April of 2012 Thank you Okay, so the motion on the floor is to Accept and adopt the report committee right except for the doctor which will and which will file these documents Right the committee recommended that the documents be placed on fire so that is the Motion in the second just to clarify mr. Mayor. So a yes vote will be to file these documents will file these documents Yep, it is still in finance Thank you It is Still in fine, but this would kill it, but this would make right deaths would kill that then as well This is the issue you have with dual referrals if you want to keep the issue of this resolution Regarding establishing the position of city administrator for the city alive I'd recommend not filing this basically what you're saying if the council approves filing it you're filing that resolution and Once the resolutions filed it's dead And that's whether it's another copy of the same resolution you'd have to bring in another resolution to Start the process again So the committee recommended to file this document that didn't mean to file it I'll never hand it. I just I have a question for the finance committee. Are they how close are they to having dated together for a fight for We we looked at various things There is money there we just maybe have some disagreement on whether the timing of it is proper to use it now given our budget constraints so That's like probably the the long and the short of it going into too much detail, so but that's I don't know Anybody else in the finance wants to chime in I think it's there, but others may not All the men born Thank you, mayor Ryan. I've got a question for city clerk Richards Sue if we keep this alive and finance that would only keep this document alive until the end of this council year So finance would have to do something if they want to on this document before April. Is that correct? Correct if they want if they want to they can do one or two things they can act on it before the end of the council here Or they can tell me that they're going to refer it on to the new council Okay, so this is not this is not indefinite by keeping it alive. We have the finance would have to do something with it Either file it or move ahead with this right if you nothing with it. It dies in committee. Thank you Okay Alderman Bunk. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. I was just going to add to what chairman Hammond said also Alderman Hannah we had had a long night of conversation about the budget We're in the middle of budget and I think we just prioritized that budget conversations needed to happen first Knowing that once the budget was done we could come back to that because as Alderman born pointed out We've got until winter of 2012 to figure it out so I Think we were having important conversations about the budget and realized that that could take second fiddle Especially given that if the money isn't there it was really about keeping the content alive as well And I think it would be easy and benign for us to refer it to the next finance committee I don't think that's a difficult thing. Thank you. Thank you Alderman Bunk all the person mountain mayor Thank You mr. Mayor Having been here a little while We've had a lot of studies that have been done especially regarding the building of the police station And no matter how they were filed we referred to them from the Studies from 1996 and also we referred to the studies with a remuneration committee Even though that had been filed none of it went away simply because it was filed those lengthy studies were referred to After they were filed I think that's why they call it to be placed on file Alderman Rindflash I think I heard some not to mayor. I didn't mean to create a little firestorm or debate today, but I Guess I'll respectfully disagree well we with Alderman Montes may or the documents You know it's history. It's in file somewhere We can bring it to it, but the action to file states that we as a counsel Suggest and go on record saying the item should be filed should be put away And that's how I meant when you go on record to say is that you know it should be filed and put away I feel strongly in the long long term long term plan has make sense for the city in a short term plan It doesn't work in the budget right now But I do refer back to the two years of the committee to meet and discuss this Furthermore, I think we as we need to take a long range view perhaps it doesn't work for us in a long range perhaps You know a different system or a current system is most ideal for the city But big decisions like that need to be thought out and not rushed and You know on one hand by voting to file it we're rushing that we're saying no not right now I'll bring it back a some date in the future, but when When is that you know we have some momentum going on this item? I'd like to keep that momentum going and just urge you just to to vote no right now to not file it and Allow the finance committee to do do its work in the future and see if it's possible or not That's all I ask. Thank you Think you're Alderman Rindflesch All right, I'm in Thank you, ma'er. I would be doing a disservice to my fellow committee members that I spent not only one year with but two years with Looking at city administrator trying to bring it in front of this common council only to have it die all the time And the and the conversation goes away again. I will be voting no Because again though you like to say we get things referred again I'll agree with the Alderman Rindflesch once they're filed. They don't have much of a chance of coming back Thank you Alderman Heidemann. Thank you. Is there any further discussion? Okay, what is the motion on the floor the motion on the floor was to That the report of committee be accepted and adopted accepted and adopted which means a yes vote will file it a No vote will not everybody clear on that roll call, please Okay Hannah, yes Heidemann No Kittleson aye Montemay or aye Rindflesch no rest. I'm sorry racelor. Yes Samson. Yes, Vanderweel. No Versi. Yes Boran aye Boke no Bowers no decker. I And Hammond no Eight eyes seven nose Motion carries Reports of committees nine 1543 by public works recommending repealing and recreating section 74 dash 63 of the municipal code Entitled fire controls so as to allow with restrictions fires within designated fire rings in city parks and city owned property President Alderman Boran, I'm sorry Thank You, Mayor Ryan. I move that the report of the committee be put upon its passage and we also need a general ordinance passage on that also Yes, except an adopt and put the ordinance upon its passage. Thank you Thank You Alderman Boran. We have a motion and a second under discussion There is no discussion roll call, please Heidemann I Kittleson aye Montemay or aye Rindflesch aye Racelor aye Samson aye Vanderweal aye Versi aye Boran aye Boke aye Bowers aye decker aye Hammond aye and Hannah aye 15 eyes motion carries ordinances introduced 10 1544 and 1545 to be referred matters laid over 11 1532 Resolution number 121 dash 10 dash 11 by Alder persons Hammond Rindflesch Boran and Racelor Authorizing entering into an agreement with Graf to provide neighborhood revitalization efforts consulting services Alderman Thank You mr. Mayor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Second we have a motion in a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion There is none roll call, please cut aye Kittleson aye Montemay or aye Rindflesch Racelor aye aye Vanderweal aye Versi upstream Boran aye Boke aye Bowers aye decker aye Hammond aye Hannah aye and Heidemann aye 14 eyes one abstention motion carries 14-34 RC number 242 dash 10 dash 11 by Public Works Relative to authorizing the appropriate city officials to execute the docks base agreement Between the city and Winsor for birthing of the X cannon in the Sheboygan River Public Works Alderman Boran Thank You mayor Ryan. I move that the report of committee be put upon its passage second and the also the resolution For the committee be accepted adopted resolution be put upon its passage. Thank you motion in a second Under discussion we just received an updated agreement With Winsor tonight, and I was wondering if Attorney McLean would mind just going over a couple of the highlights from that new agreement Thank you. Thank you. Alderman board Sure old important the changes that Being reported out from the Public Works Committee. There's really three The original draft talked about annual rent of a dollar And that was just put in as a placeholder basically until there's some discussion about rent But the Public Works Committee is recommended in the agreement before you is $2,500 a year that would Have an inflation factor for future years and And The way it's been structured for quite a while is the rent kicks in the beginning the second year second calendar year of operation once The X cannon is in Sheboygan in place and open for For the public so no rent the first year basically it's for the Winsor group to get their feet on the ground generate Some revenue and then the rent would start the second year Secondly there was an additional contingency added to the original agreement to Require Submittal by Winsor of documentation prepared firing firm Including that the docking of the cannon won't have any detrimental impact upon the stormwater Outfall that's immediately at the vicinity of the docking space. There's a 42 inch sewer storm sewer outfall And that the engineering consulting firm would also establish that there would be no detrimental impact upon the vessel itself as well Then there's one Clarification or expansion of one of the other Contingencies and that deals with there was language in the agreement about As a contingency before the cannon could be located along the river there just upstream from From the Highland House that the The prior completion of the PCB remediation operations That's part of the Sheboygan River and Harbor Superfund project and related dredging And what was added was? Just to clarify so as to provide a navigable channel adjacent to the waters to be occupied by the X cannon and The rationale for that that came up when the yacht club raised concerns about their Their boat lifting facility just up river from where the cannon is they've got some That boat storage space there and they haul boats out of the water and they They wanted to make sure and I believe they're comfortable with The cannon being Located where it's proposed to be located as long as they're assured that there is a navigable channel just Offshore from the cannon so that was inserted in there Other than that the language has been it's the same as what was originally introduced number of months ago Thank You attorney McLean under discussion Alderman board. Thank you. May Ryan. I saw This sharp hackney act in the audience tonight from Winza And I was wondering if she would like to give the council an update on Where where Winza stands with bringing the X cannon to Sheboygan if we could open up the floor to her second We have a motion and second to open the floor to miss peck neck all in favor say hi post Char the floor is open Good evening mayor and city council just an update for everybody. We have completed all of our Application for phase 2 to the Navy They have asked for some additional information which we have prepared and are sending off to them and we are proceeding fundraising and Everything needed to bring the ship here and the understanding that we will work with the timetable at this point Will be that the ship will arrive in fall of 2012 Once the dredging is completed. So we're very excited. We're getting very positive feedback from the community and From the citizens. They're really excited about the ship coming Thank you, sir. Are there any questions for miss peck neck Alderman Bowers, did you have anything? Thank you, sir Any further discussion? Alderman born. Thank you, Mary. Just that we could if we could take for 1440 along with it It's kind of a companion document. Can we take that? I would just file 1440 because it's just a duplicate. Okay Okay, so we're at 1434 File 1440 I'll second his file. I'll make a motion to file motion file 1440 along with it Okay. I yes, I Sharp touched on a bit the river dredging which hasn't come up in a while again the river is We have another meeting out of tomorrow. The river is dredging is set to start in April The dewatering site is built. It will be a two-summer project. So by the end of 2012 when the Canon is scheduled to arrive the river should be dredged that we have no problem with the navigation Okay We have a motion to accept and adopt and put the resolution upon its passage and to file 1440 any further discussion If there is none roll call, please Kittleson aye Montemay or aye Rinflesche aye Racler aye Samson aye Vander wheel aye Versi aye Orin aye bow bowers aye Decker aye Hanna aye Heidemann aye and cut aye 15 eyes motion carries 1444 general ordinance number 34 dash 10 dash 11 by all the persons Hannah Kittleson Racler Vander wheel and Versi amending the municipal code So as to delete and add various positions to the table of organization in the finance department For the city of Sheboygan Alderman Hannah Thank you, mr. Mayor. I would make a motion that the general ordinance The put upon its passage second you have a more motion in a second to put the general ordinance upon its passage under discussion There's none roll call, please Montemay or aye Rinflesche aye Racler aye Samson aye Vander wheel aye Versi aye Orin aye bow Bowers Decker aye Hammond aye Hannah aye Heidemann aye cut aye and Kittleson aye Thank you Alderman about 15 eyes motion carries other matters authorized by law 1546 will be referred to public protection and safety and 1547 will be referred to salaries and grievances other other matters authorized by the law attorney McLean File 1547 Thank you Alderman Hammond attorney McLean 1548 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending June 30 2011 and June 30 2012 That will be referred to public protection and safety 1549 is a resolution authorizing renewing the agreement for human resources and labor relations consulting services with HR unlimited LLC for the period January 1 2011 to December 31 Okay, let me back up. The first one will be referred to law and licensing 1548 1549 will be referred to salary and grievances 1550 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting the LTC certification for the tax levy report that supports the 2010 11 budget for Lake Shore Technical College district that will lie over till November 22nd 1551 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting the subordinary school district tax levy certification for the 2010 11 school year Will also lie over till November 22nd 1552 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction tax levy certification from the Kohler school district For the 2010 2011 school year Also lies over till the 22nd 1553 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting a claim from Tamara Adamson For alleged damages to her door when police officers pounded on her door looking for signs will be referred to risk management That is all I have a motion to adjourn in a second all in favor say aye. I have opposed. We are adjourned. Thank you