 Welcome to the Monday, September 19th, 2022 meeting of the Montpelier Design Review Committee. At this point, members and staff can introduce themselves. Eric Gilbertson. Martha Smirsky, member. Meredith Crandall, staff. Stephen Everett, member. Liz Pritchett, member. And at this point, Meredith can review the remote meeting procedures and process. Okay, so we just have Sandy on for remote as an applicant. We don't have any members of the public. So I'm going to keep this fairly short. And this is more for people who might be on via orca and interested in joining. So those of you who are watching this meeting via orca media, you can participate in tonight's design review committee meeting via the zoom platform. You can, if you want to have the video option so that we can see you. Then you want to use this link and just paste type it into your browser. And that will. Thank you. I will bring you right into the meeting and I'll let you in when I see you in the waiting room, or you can call into this phone number and punch in this meeting idea when prompted. And you'll be able to hear and speak over the phone. You just won't have the video options where we can see you. If you have any problems accessing the meeting, please email me, my email address is here on your screen and Crandall at Montpelier hyphen vt.org. We do ask that for anyone who is attending via zoom please keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking this reduces background noise and know that turning on your video is optional. Thank you Sandy if and for anybody else who gets on remotely, please reserve the chat function for technical issues and any substantive comments just make sure you're you're making orally over the microphone. In the event that the public is unable to access the meeting it will need to be continued to a time and place certain. I'll hand the meeting back over to Steve do we have a little bit of an echo going on feedback or something. Okay, thank you. Just, I couldn't help it was me. At this point. Do I hear a motion from committee member to approve the agenda. All in favor of the agenda speak your names. Steven. And we can move to the first application for replacement of a shed at five West street. Come up and have a seat and describe your application for us as much as possible try to speak into the microphone it'll carry everything through to the minute taker and anybody, including Liz, who's attending remotely. You're elected. The shed for this meeting the later meeting will be about the driveway issue. Oh, just the shed. Okay. All right. Good. We were wondering about that. Yes. I'm going to say our names John and Jenny, she and five, five West street. We had applied. Shed in the back, I guess the Northwest corner of our, our property, not right in the corner. The five, five and 10 foot. A budding. And same, same color as our, as our house recently painted the house, which is previous. I think we were in last year for so that that lining match matching with that. It's kind of over on a hill so it have have peers. Supporting supporting that. I'm not sure. Is there a garage on the corner and that corner of the property. The garage is the garage would be on the Southwest corner. So the garage is on the where you were pointing. Yeah, along the sheds here. On the slower corner right on First Avenue. Is that where the garage is? Yes. Right. It's actually though for First Avenue would be. Oh, right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. From First Avenue, the shed is behind the garage. Correct. Okay. Yep. It's not attached to it. Not attached to it. No, it'd be a good kind of the far end of the lot from the garage was right on the first half. Built in right on it. It's about 10 feet off First Avenue. And then this would be on the. Graduates are never big enough. Our current garage. Our current garage is a one car garage. Yes. And we're converting the space above the current garage into it into an ADU, which, and then going to have the garage. Well, as part of our, I guess, the next week or whatever we're back. Oh, it is. Oh, it's nice. Well, okay. Oh, great. So I guess we'll be talking about seven o'clock is having the garage sell a shared shared garage space where we would still keep our car there but allow a tenant to keep a biker or other things in the garage. Yeah, it's a one car garage but it's it's kind of a lot like a one, one plus if you I think it's 20 foot by, you know, it's like 22 foot deep by even with the other space. Yeah, you couldn't fit two cars in there but bigger than bigger than one. Yeah, if you had a couple of menus you could put a couple of them in there. I thought we might be able to fit both our leaf and our people then by now. The first avenue to where you're going to put the garage right. The garage was a shed. Yeah, that's correct. And it's kind of a downhill from West Avenue or West Street. Yeah, from West Avenue it's pretty flat to the, to the top, to the top of the shed there and then, and then the hell starts to go starts to go down. For the back of the shed. Is it right next to the neighbors line. Yeah, I think we have it. Doing a five, five or six feet off of the, our neighbor on West streets yard and I think it's what I mentioned it'd be about 11 feet off the line between our first avenue. And for the first avenue neighbor if I recall correctly dips quite significantly right back there. Is that correct. Yeah, right those. Yeah, so right where we just like the probably the last three or four feet of the garage and starts to dip and then from from there, I mean the shed. There's the dip and then right then those last 1112 feet of our property as well as the first. I don't know probably 10 feet of her property are pretty, pretty steep. So and that's on five feet is the minimum. Yeah. Okay. One quick question. The doors are facing the house. Correct. Okay. Yeah, I thought so because of the slope by. Yeah, yeah, that was a case. Yeah, yeah. There an existing fence between you and the neighbor on West street. No, no. No, there's a. There's a wall between us and our first avenue neighbor, like a bit of a guess a retaining retainment all down where the form the property line there but there's, there's no no demarcation between other than plants and things. And the signing on the shed is shingled to match that on the house. Yeah, that's what we're thinking. Yeah. Okay. Is it a modular shed, or is it a stick tilt shed? Are you buying a shed kit. Oh, shed kit. We actually, we hadn't completely ironed that out I was looking at designs and doing with with sticks and then Jenny had also found one on line that was matched there I thought was we'd be doing this in the, in the spring kind of driven we thought by the other, I guess by our seven o'clock piece, we thought it'd be the best to roll out together. There is a Vermont company that makes sheds. I can't recall the name at the moment. The one on a crystal. I think so. Yeah, one right down and you're going down in health and money. I'm going down to make it a nice building. Okay. So the colors would be the gray sliding black shutter that has shutters and white trim. One thing is I wasn't sure of is they, they would they're come custom it wouldn't be shakes that would probably be covered the same color. I don't know if that's significant or not. It just says something about siding and and didn't know if that was matching the house siding or if it was a either shingle or, or fibers are fine. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Great siding there. Are you running power out to it. We were thinking that. No, we weren't thinking. We're thinking power to it. If you wanted a light inside, you could put a they make a little kit and then very inexpensive. And it's a solar panel outside and lights inside motion detector light inside. Oh, nice. So you could attach that to the side of the building facing more south, right? Where if you have a spot that's not covered by trees or too much. But if you can get, you know, a couple of panels and you can put a couple of lights inside so that when you open the doors and walk in the lake comes up. Yeah, that's a nice idea. Yeah, it's a lot better. We're thinking running running power from the house seemed like overkill, but yeah, those little solar panels a good idea. Immediately south is a lot of maple trees, but we probably could could catch like a south easterly and get enough morning sun to battery it up. That's a good idea. Although at some point I would imagine you'll probably run power to it if you have tools or need something a charger out there for something. Potentially, I mean, I think we're mostly thinking of it for storing the, you know, the lawn mower, the bikes, the things, things like that. And we do have power on the on the back porch, which isn't too many steps away. But you're right. Also, they can never, never be big enough and never enough power, I guess the solar panels are pretty small. They're like 18 inches 12 by 18 something like that. So we could just do an amendment to allow them to add that on the exterior on a corner facing closest to south. If that's okay with everyone. Okay. Great. Thank you. It's not really clear. I think that I'm reading that you're intending on asphalt shingles for the roof. Oh, yeah, that was just to match at just asphalt architectural shingles, which is what we usually had our house. That was three years ago. Yeah, so that was, it was, that was the idea here was just to match, try to match the house with both the colors and with the, the shingles. In front of the shed is over 100 feet back from a sidewalk right by my calculations. 16 and five is 20 some feet near lot line there's 138 feet. So, yeah, long ways back. Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah. Anybody have any other questions or suggestions. It's good choice of location was far away from everything. So what I can do at this point is go through there's a set of criteria that applies to the projects. All projects number one exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing building shall be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. New construction shall be considered to be compatible if the materials used possess a kind or type that are appropriate to the district. The materials selected shall either fit the neighborhood context or the proposed building and or reflect the nature and use of the structure acceptable. Right. New building should be compatible with the varied heights of existing adjacent buildings acceptable proportion compatibility of relationship between width and height of facades as well as relationship of width to height of windows and doors acceptable rhythm. Considerance established by the alterations of solid walls and openings in the facade of the building should create a rhythm acceptable roof shape and equipment. Similarity or compatibility with rough shapes and immediate area concealed roof equipment and features on flat roofs from my level that and apply here acceptable. Architectural features including but not limited to cornices windows shutters fan lights and tabulator trim and other forms of molding or character defining detailing prevailing on the existing building should be considered in the alteration of the building actually this is a new construction architectural features prevailing in the surrounding area shall be regarded as suggestive of the extent nature and scale of details that are appropriate for new buildings acceptable criteria for new buildings only new development shall incorporate sustainable design and construction methods and materials compatible with historic materials and styles acceptable scale and massing scale and massing of new building should be compatible with surrounding structures acceptable. Context and connectivity building design shall be sensitive to the overall character and context of the design review overly district and to adjacent buildings acceptable. Accessory buildings and structures new accessory building those structures shall be located within either the side yard or rear yard and show not visually disrupt the streetscape or affect the integrity of the existing building proposed new building acceptable. All in favor of the application speak your names. Eric. Martha I'm a yes. Steven suggests. Yes, yes. Okay, the application is approved. Thank you. Thank you. And there, we're going to be signing the recommendation forms. And then that will get rolled into the packet and we'll see how what DRB does it seven on the driveway in the box. My name. Should we both send just one of you is fine. And I double check the agenda you're actually second. Okay. Okay. So we're on the DRB meeting. So the meeting starts at seven, but your application won't be up right away. But I don't know exactly how long that first application will take, but feel free to go and hang out somewhere else if you want, but it's pretty wet outside too. Good luck with your project. Thank you. Thank you. We can move forward. The next application. Welcome back 138 West Street. Hi, Sandy. Hi there. Sandy. Hello. Go ahead and bring us up to date on the new information. Okay. So tonight I'm bringing forth for topics. The first one is the possible. I would say actually unlikely but possible roof material replacement with TPO. The second is a requirement from the city to add proper handrails to the exterior ramp. At the third is to talk further about the airlock and the fourth is to talk further about windows. And actually it's that's going in as a fresh start the six angle top windows. So covering the roof material first. It's not visible from the street. This is a more modern material than the crushed stone on asphalt that's there now. So it's going to be replaced very soon. And this is a recommended material because it has such a long warranty and it's good against leaks. On to the second item, the exterior ramp. I've included a photograph. We need to extend the handrails out to the very, very bottom of the ramp, plus a bit further. I'm proposing black pipe iron. Or iron pipe as the handrail and as the bottom the end posts. I should also add that the sprinkler system is requiring that the space underneath of the ramp being closed and they have approved that we can use lattice. And so I'm just suggesting that we use the black lattice that I submitted in earlier applications is just a black lattice. Maybe I should ask if there are any questions about those first two items. Yeah, can you remind me where the ramp is if I'm looking at the building from Main Street straight on. Where is the ramp. It's all the way in the back of the building on the right hand side you cannot see it from the street. Okay, yeah, thank you. That helps me. Are there any other questions about the first two items. No. Okay. So on to the airlock. The new information here is a more detailed letter from the historic preservationist named Alex Tolstoy. And it helped me understand a little bit better what's going on. But the, it's actually they, they don't think now that the granite heaved we think that it got worn out by salt. And it's actually a cup might also be a little bit of a heave but it's mostly the cupping. What happened is they started to lay out the airlock they realized that there's an inch gap in the middle, including where the hinge of the door needs to come down and hopefully be supported by something so that the door doesn't come off. And also there's, you know, lack of thermal protection where there's a gap. So what they want to do is put down five pins instead of the one on the corner, and they would prefer it to have a permanent, like a track. And all of that coming in and out every season. Alex Tolstoy is really worried about the granite slab, the granite slab is historic it's actually quite unusual it's eight inches thick and. About eight feet by eight feet in size, and he's just not happy about drilling those holes in there. So he was the person that brought this up that he would prefer to see the airlock be permanent. And he also brings up the point that this will help with the summers to keep the building cool, which I have to admit I had not thought of but I think it's a very good point. So anyways, I guess Steve would you like to have discussion about this and then go on to the windows. Sure, that's fine. You're. Any question with the railings and. I have a question about how the airlock is going to be secured to that granite. I didn't understand that. Andy, I have the information from your prior application where it got approved temporary. Do you want me to pull that up on the screen so Liz can see as you're talking about it. That would be good I didn't think about re submitting it sorry. Nope, that's okay I didn't think about including it in the packet that went to everybody so it's not just brilliant and you don't mind put it on up and let Liz have a look. Yeah, I missed the last meeting so. This was a couple of meetings ago I think I don't know if you were there for that one or I don't think. Give me a minute. Right. One. Here we go. So, let's zoom in a little. So here's where the, here's the current, you know existing historic doors and the whole granite slab here. And here's where the airlock would be right, Sandy. Yep. Yes. So set back in, you know away from where the arches are. And there's multiple anchor points. Well no there weren't before so it's mostly attaching through a channel on the ceiling which is permanent and black, same color as the ceiling, and then it had the that's what it looks like. And then it had, see the corner right where the little hand is, there's a corner post that was going to pin down to the, to the floor. And then there were a couple of attachments against the brick walls in the mortar. And that was going to be enough but if you look at that door, can you go back up? Oh, there it is. Sure, I was going to show this one but. Oh yeah. Why don't we do, okay. I'm sorry. I think it's a good idea. So do you see that Liz? So in other words, there won't be any holes drilled into the granite slab. I think there was still need to be one. Okay. But if you don't mind going back up Meredith to the front view. That one. That one with a panic bar. So you see how there's a thin rail along the bottom. And that would, from almost all along that length, it cups down in the center line of the cup is right underneath the handle on the door. So it's just that, that is suddenly having to support and. Reinforce the, the airlock and it wasn't designed to do that. Right. Okay. So there's a, there's a unanticipated gap here. Right, Andy, where the granite dips down so that now this whole bar along the bottom here in the middle is carrying the weight versus the granite carrying the weight. Correct. It has, there's a small threshold under the door, but it was going to be the threshold was going to be an inch or will be an inch off the granite. If we will go with this temporary setup. Well, whether it's temporary or permanent that that inch has to be made up. The problem is, is they have to use extra pins, and they have to somehow remove it and I did find a neoprene gasket that they were willing to look into. But that that won't be enough because that obviously isn't going to take weight than neoprene gasket so they what what they wanted to do is add an aluminum bar that could be scribed to the cup. Sandy. Could you. What? Who proposed that aluminum bar. The airlock company. And an Alex while they were talking about it. Okay. So you hope that won't be a trip hazard. Right. It's like a threshold. It'll be a threshold but the. So what Alex is worried about is the extra pins having to be coming in and out every year. So I understand where they're what people are walking. For me, the fact that this is you're proposing it to be permanent now raises some issues that a temporary airlock might not raise. First, the. You still need to go with a heavier door if you're going to do the locking doors that which are planned on. The airlock the inside door. For a number of reasons, because that is. That obscures. The doors on the original doors on the building. But it does. I mean, because it's off center. And the railing. My calculation of railing comes right in front of the, the lock side. It comes right in front of the doors. It does the doors are wide there five feet wide. Is, is there any reason the door. The airlocks made when it got approved in July, the airlocks already finished. So I don't think they're going to make it again. I mean, I think the option is to just have the holes in the slab and have it be seasonal as was agreed upon. Is there. So that you said the airlock is already fabricated. Yeah, they were playing. They were starting to put it in. I'm just curious, didn't we review this similar airlock a couple years ago. Was when Margo George was still alive. Several years ago, I know it was rejected. It wasn't some. Well, the fact that this is the worst performing building probably in Montpelier, if not the state of Vermont is much more important now that buildings be energy efficient. And the owner just let it go that he was going to have air leaking out the door. But it's not acceptable anymore from a climatic point of view and the financial point of view. What is the new sill for the door across there is that going to create some kind of a trip hazard. I haven't seen it yet so I don't know well it's going to probably be about an inch and a half I'm guessing inch and a quarter. That that seems not good to me. I mean it's just an element of somebody not seeing and tripping over it. So the, the thresholds they make. Excuse me. They make a threshold that's either it either has a thermal break or not but it's a handicap threshold and there's probably three quarters to an inch, maybe three quarters of an inch to an inch. They're sloped and they're specifically listed as handicapped thresholds so that you could roll a wheelchair over and and you don't trip on those unless you're dragging your feet, you wouldn't know it's there. And that would probably my guess is that would probably be specified. You can get that in colors either silver, gray, black to match whatever other framework you're using. That could be assuming mostly we'll see but that could be something that is added as an option for them or would it be a recommendation. I would think that they would want the handicap threshold anyway. Yeah, that's all we've ever used. I don't know what they were planning to do I think the handy. Well it's not handicapped but I'm just saying that's a low profile. Nobody's going to trip over that threshold. It is an egress on a public building it has to be. Yes. That's required by code anyway. So that's something that is going to be in place, no matter the height of the cell under the door the cell the bar the support under the door. Right. The threshold would mount right on the granite. Yeah. And if it's slightly if it's slightly out of level they may have to level it but they're there shouldn't in the width of a threshold. There shouldn't be that much of a difference. And hollowed out underneath for the threshold is going to go that's my understanding. Yes, that by making it permanent I think they have more options about the height of the threshold and the design of it. But it's not having to hold things together. As long as it meets code what you would have to anyway I don't see any issues with it with the threshold with the threshold. My concern is just is basically the permanency of an airlock there in one of the most beautiful buildings in town. And I'm not seeing any way around that. I'm assuming that the main door is very well weather stripped. It's not it can't be it's a double door. Oh, it's a double door. Yeah. Well, we can, to be honest, he can't lock it. Right. He mentioned that. It's this, this one less. Right, right. Yeah. I mean, you can still weather strip it though, can't you. The airlock's already been approved and manufactured. Yeah. So I think the option is going in as seasonal or going in permanent. I think as far as my having it permanent makes a difference between having it a temporary. There's a lot of difference in my way of looking at it. Because of the, at least partly because of the scaring the beautiful original doors. months a year instead of seven months or six months. Well then I'm going to suggest that we keep it as is and would just deal with the holes. And I think that's the key. I mean, really, they won't be back. To try to replace the granite slab. Well, is that I mean, hold on a second, Sandy. Yeah. Does I mean, that's Eric's opinion. What is everybody else's right. Because it's, you need. At least three yeses. I just want to make sure we're not. I'm not trying to over pull your Eric, I just want to make sure that we don't have to. So I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but. Why do you have to, I thought you could build the airlock so that. If it's, if it's not permanent, you still wouldn't have to necessarily drill the holes with you. Yes, the five holes will be drilled. Into the slab. Because it's not stable horizontally, but the door opening and shutting. So they have to drill more holes. And part of the concern is that those holes will then be exposed when you take all the framework out. Allowing. Water. Wear on the holes. And then yeah, possible scars of other things that have to hold it together that will be coming in and out every season. What about leaving this threshold in. That's my thought too. And. So that you're not exposing the holes or anything. And then moving the rest of it. So. Oh. Oh, like taking off the door itself. Yeah. Taking a door and the rest of it down like it was originally planned. It's just the addition. To this is really the threshold. Could. Could they leave the corner post up year round. But really the problem is that corner post and then the L on the bottom, you know, the L shape. On the floor. I would, I would say leaving the corner posts. And. The, and leaving this threshold in place would help help a lot in terms. Is it then it wouldn't obscure those front doors. During that's acceptable to everybody. I think we could make that work. I think that's brilliant. You're brilliant, Eric. Okay. So the corner posts would stay. And the thresholds are going to be black. It's going to look a little weird to have them there. But. A little bit with the black. Yeah. And that would be, you know, if the, if the. It's going to look a lot better than. If the panels come out and, and the frame stays. That's probably as good as we're going to do with this. I can live with it. I can live with it. I can live with it. I can live with it. I can live with it. I can live with it. I can live with it. I can live with it. I can live with it. I can live with this. The threshold and the columns, staying, as long as the actual glass or plexiglass or whatever it is, comes in and out with each season. I understand the issue with the granite and the, all some. Fasting it down, but if they leave this threshold of place, then. Then you don't have to worry about that. Also screws in. It's all. Doesn't have stuff getting in it. I think quit leaving the corner post will also help people know that there's something on the floor. So that they're less likely to trip. On the threshold being left there. I'm okay with that solution as well. I am 100% sure I can sell that one. Okay. Steve is here writing away on the recommendation form. So we'll let him finish up with that before we move on to anything else. I'm going to send a quick text to somebody. Hold on. Okay. Sorry, I'm in the middle of a trip and people. Hey. Anyways. Sandy. What I wrote was the airlock entry to be installed with a corner post permanently with the remainder of the frame glass or plexiglass and door to be removable for seasonal installations. I think for the. Corner post to be rigid. The side threshold needs to, there's like a rail on the floor on the side. I think that both need to be there. Permanently. Okay. Okay. Next item is the angle top windows. So this is a fresh application. And I want to thank you for approving the 31 rectangular windows. I'm sorry. Okay. Okay. Next item is the angle top windows. So this is a fresh application. I want to thank you for approving the 31 rectangular windows last time. Those are all the rectangular building windows on the building, including the front facade. And. There was some disagreement last time about what should happen with the six angle top windows that are in the dormers. On the back of the building. I would point out again that they're not visible from the street. They're not visible from the street. Really anywhere. And. So they're in poor condition. And these interior storms are really not working. So the options we very carefully went through pricing and drawing out options. The replacement of the windows. And the replacement of the windows. And the replacement of the modern window that looks like the old one. Is cost prohibitive. Replacing the windows in their original shape. But fixed and they would be flat without a step for the lower sash. Is going to cost $2,000 a window. I. For that. And the other option where that it's not easy for someone to get a roof, it's not easy for them to get a roof. And that's a 50 50 issue. So these, if they're fixed. Obviously they can't be used for egress. The third option is the small triangle of glass that was suggested. And this would require a horizontal mullion. That would be between the two. The operating rectangle window and the fixed triangle above it. That mullion horizontal mullion has to take a lot of stress. Because it has to hold the window in place. Both of them. And so it's structural as well as it has to shed water. When we drew it out. The glass was going to be about four inches high and 12 inches wide. And the best way to look at that is I sent, I included a photograph of one of the windows from the inside. And the bottom rail, sorry, the meeting rail is pushed all the way up. So you can see how much glass is available in the triangle. But inside that we have to have another, like a fixed stash. So it would take off about an inch and a half. From that remaining small triangle. So there's just not a lot of glass that would remain. And the labor on this was going to be really huge. So the team found this to be both infeasible and aesthetically confusing was the term from the historic preservationist. He asked me to point out again that the bathroom window, which is on the right hand side on the, on the West elevation has always been rectangular. And it's always had a panel over at the panel's painted green. He said he could paint it black or green. So those are the four options we could think of. And one thing Alex suggested is he said, if it were truly important that maybe what the owners should do is restore the six front windows on the second floor rather than replacing those. It's basically a trade. It seemed, again, for me, I am concerned about any window that could be used as part of an apartment. Having to have one or two fixed storms that make it hard to get out if there's a fire. So I didn't agree with that, but he suggested it. So we've got to put it out there for you. Sandy, I noticed that when I read the materials today, are you suggesting that where we approved the replacement of these, of the rectangular windows that the owner is willing to restore those, which I understand is a significantly more expensive experience? Is that what you're saying? The historic preservationist has suggested that. Okay, I think we were all confused on that part. So I think you're clarifying it now, but that's not part of the application. Is that correct? My concern is a restored window is harder for someone to get out if there's a fire. And I think that. So it's not my recommendation. I think that I am quite sure that owners going to do whatever you folks suggest. So as you work it out, just that is something that Alex put out as a way to make a compromise. I would, I think the strategy is that the more the front windows that are visible to everybody are more important than the rear windows. However, the replacement windows will not look different, much different at all from the original windows. So, and if, and if you restore the windows, you're restoring basically the sash and putting insulated glass in. But then at that point, how do you get rid of the window weights and that cavity, which is no insulation in it, which is a huge heat loss. And everything you do, including getting rid of the weights and one or two storms on it is going to increase. Exit time if there's a fire. Yes. I don't really see the benefit of trading one for the other. I really don't. The ones that we approved. I think there was a good reason for approving it and I have no problem with that at all. But I still have issues with putting a rectangular window in the arched windows over the triangular windows. And the reasons that I do are with the reasons that I stated last week. This is one of the most significant historic buildings we have on the street. It's an absolutely gorgeous building. And to change the windows so significantly seems to me to be an aberration. I have in mind several years ago, actually, when someone on court street wanted to change the double. Front doors on their house because of the need for better egress. And also for weather reasons, we wouldn't allow that. We would not allow that. We would not allow that. We would not allow that. Arched windows and putting in square windows with a. Plywood or some sort of wood panel on top of it. Well, it would be handled out to match the one that's existing. But again, they are not visible. From any street. These are only the ones in the rear of the building. Correct. There's two dormers on in the driveway side. There's one on the left side of the building. And then there are three. Inside the tree on the east side on the right hand side of the building as you face it. The three that are facing the tree. Are imminently going to become part of an apartment. And the one in the egress in the hallway. I. I don't know. I don't know how many rooms, but those four. Are critical. The other two, there is a decent chance that that will be turned into an apartment as well. It's an office space right now. But I just, you know. Now, I know that I noticed that on the front of the building. Facing the street up on the third level. And there are some. Triangular upper sense. And it looks like there's, is there one half round? Or is that also a triangular? It's actually a beautiful. Mix of angle tops and half rounds and all of those have. It's been agreed that they're going to be restored. Okay. So the ones on the front of their building would not be changed. You're only looking to change the ones on the back of the building, which don't face the street. Correct. So none of those, none of those. All of those are going to be restored. Yeah. The entire front of the building, right? The arch top's on the front. The rectangular will be replaced. They were approved before. So if you zoom, I'm zooming in on a big screen right now. So you can see the other side. Right. So there's an angle top here on this thump out. And then on the other side, and then this is that. Half round, half round, half round. It shows on this picture here, there's several of the angle tops and the half rounds up top that face the street. The only ones they're proposing to change the panel or in the back of the building facing the tree and the parking lot. Yeah. And if you could don't mind zooming out, Meredith just a bit, you'll see that tree. But even if the tree weren't there, you wouldn't see them really from the street at all. They're just. Yeah, there's a lot of green back there. Yeah, you can't even really see that back section of the building. Right. And then coming down from the Unitarian church towards the roundabout, you can't see the windows either. You know, from the other direction, you just. So these, these windows are on the same side of the building and back to the building where the pellet silo is going. That's right. They're actually above the pellet silo. Yes. And this is going to be in such done in such a way that if someday somebody decides to reverse it, they can. Yes, that's correct. They're inserts. Yeah. So you just, you can't. Even if you stand there, you can't see them. They're stepped back. Yeah. Because this zips in. Yeah, but even if that tree were gone, you couldn't see them. I'm okay with. With that plan, I think. Considering egress and energy efficiency. And the fact that you're retaining so much of the historic character on the front. I think it's okay to make the change to those. Regular top windows in the back. And they can be replaced later on if somebody wanted to put that back. Right. I'm, I'm, I guess I feel the same in the back that you, you don't see it anyway. And you won't be able to tell even if you worry to see it from a distance, which you'd have to be in order to see it back there. I don't see that. It's a noticeable change. And again, it is reversible. If somebody. Chose to put the triangle and the windows in the back for some reason, but the, the new windows give you much better energy efficiency. There solves. Let paint issues in case there is an apartment there. And it also gives you. Much better. Egress if need be. One thing I remember doing not a month till you're, it was maybe 20 years ago is the owner made a commitment to store the windows. On site. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I mean, there's basements in the floodplain, but they could be stored if the committee wanted. Store. The old sashes. Yes. No, that would be a good thing to do to store those so that they could either be replaced or. Restored or recreated somehow. If somebody chose to in the future. Is that okay with everyone? I'm still going to vote no on this particular issue. I recognize that everybody else is voting. Yes. I also, I mean, in order to preserve them, let's say, let's save them. Let's store them. Yes. At least we'll do that. And I recognize the fact that there's a three to one. Oh, here. Having gone to grade school, I can count. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I've, I've stated why I feel the way I do. Okay. And that's all I can do. Okay. That's okay. We have different people from different backgrounds on our committees so that we can get all the different perspectives. Yeah. And he's really. Yeah. The low arch top along the first floor are all going to get restored as well. Those were that shape is going to get preserved. So that's nice. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a lot of time walking by that building in my. In the early 2000s when I lived on Liberty street and worked on state street. So. I worked next door. That is a long time. Nice to see work getting done on the building for sure. Steve's writing again, Sandra. And I'm walking. It's all good. May I, may I say I'm a half an hour late for dinner. I just trust you all to write up what we've discussed and whatever you say will be fine. Does anybody have any more questions? I mean, I think. You know, come to a reasonable creek compromise on things. So. Yeah. So there'll be just what I, what I wrote down was that the rear windows with the triangular top shape on the upper sash are to be removed and stored for possible future use. And then we'll have to have the rear windows replaced with the new rectangular windows. Perfect. They'll do a final vote. And I will send you a scan of the form because I am going to need your signature or, or. On the form before we can issue any kind of permit. I will, if you don't mind sending it to me tomorrow, I'll, I'll print it out, send it, scan it. Okay. Perfect. Okay. Thank you so much, everybody. Area again. Go, go have dinner. I think you can do it just for the record for the minute keeping. Thank you. I have a question here. You suggest key criteria for review for both angle top window replacement and making air like permanent. Now we did make the recommendations for both of those. Do you still want me to go through this? Okay. I'm going to put a note in there because determining whether or not their. Character defining features. I think you kind of discussed that. Right. So the front door clearly was a character defining feature. It was very important to. Be able to see that part of the year at least. Okay. So it's kind of like the, the. Shopped windows in the back because they're in the back. Yes. Those aren't as much of a character defining feature as the ones in the front. Okay. So I'm going to come to me and be like, oh, we're appealing this. That's where I would take it. I will just say that the character finding features are acceptable. Because of the, because the air like is removable and the, the windows are in the back of the building. Yeah. Okay. That's how I would look. But I just, I, I liked that. And then that was sort of the under our guide, our regulations. That was one of the clincher. Points. So thank you. Okay. So good drop down to number two. Existing building should be recognized as a physical record of their time, place, and use. Any new development should be differentiated from the old, but shall respect and be compatible with the massing size scale, architectural features detailing an overall character of the primary historic building and nearby historic properties acceptable. Rhythm visual patterns established by the alterations of solid walls and openings, windows and doors in the facade of a building. There should create a rhythm. Patterns of solids and opening shall be preserved to the extent feasible, acceptable. Architectural features, including, but not limited to cornices, windows, shutters, fan lights and tabulator, trem and other forms of molding or character defining detailing prevailing on the existing building shall be considered in the alteration of a building. Acceptable. And all in favor of the application. Speak your names. Eric. This is Martha. I will say yes to replacing the roof material, adding the handrails. And to the. Modifications we've made in terms of the airlock, but I'm a no on the, on the windows. Okay. I'll make that note here. Liz. Yes, yes. Okay. And Steve says yes as well. So the vote would be three to one. And I'll make a notation. That. And we will, I will adjust what the permit is for, where the permit is titled to take out that restoring the six front windows. That was. My misunderstanding about what was being proposed based on. What was being proposed. And what was in the packet and everything else. I was like, wait, aren't we. We're trying to be trade off. Yeah. Well, I understood what he was proposing. And I didn't quite understand that Sandy wasn't supporting that. Which meant it wasn't in the application. So I'll fix that. And what the permit says. And all. All I noted it was a vote was three to one in favor. Started. With a notation that one committee member was not in favor of the building. And that was in favor of the building. And that was in favor of the building, which had the triangular shaped glass and. On the top of the upper sash. Okay. Next item to review and approve the meeting minutes from nine, six. 22. That's just you and me. So. Yeah. I read them over and they look good to me. So I say, I'm moved to have them accepted the way they are. Well, we need three people, right? Yeah. And that's, I mean, I think we're going to have a meeting. So we can just wait. Okay. You don't have to, but that's what we. We're both in favor of the minute. But if you need free. Well, wait a little bit comes back. He's the only other one who was here. Yeah. And you have your attendance. Yep. I took care of that. Anybody have anything else to add? Otherwise do or hear a motion to adjourn. So moved. I second it. All in favor of adjournments. Speak your names. Martha. Steve. Yes. Meeting is adjourned. Thank you all for coming.