 and then like after the fact like felt like he needed to come clean about something in his past that is essentially got the job offer revoked right yes so I've been there and I tell you I think you got it all wrong I mean you basically advise that the guy you know there's times for integrity and there's times for not and I do understand your point and I make that compromise many times you know I've certainly made that compromise in my life you know it hasn't always like immediately backfired but I tell you I you know right before right before I started talking to you back in 2017-18 maybe the two years preceding that like if we go back two years before we started talking I basically like flamed out of the corporate world in a bad way like in a way that like if I if I told an employer what happened I wouldn't get another job okay so basically because it adder all abuse and I spent 10 months unemployed and I started you know like maybe eight months into that the first the first six months there's no way I could get a job like my brain was fucked up you know I just couldn't I just wasn't ready you know what I mean I was recovering and then I got a couple job interviews with like jobs that like really fit my skills and were very interesting but I can recall one job interview I had where we were talking and like sort of inevitably my gap in employment came up right and I thought I had a story about like you know like what I could say that would sort of gloss over that and move on and as I was talking I talked myself into um I talked myself into a corner where like really I ended up like freezing up it was a phone interview and just hanging up on the person and turning off my phone like I just couldn't I couldn't and it ended up like I mean I just broke down into here I mean I was like man I'm so fucked like I don't know what to say I can't say with I can't lie that hard you know I mean I'm just not capable of it and and that was like really rough and it was like and so you know my 30th birthday was like a couple weeks after that and I remember like driving with my dad and sort of reflecting on the fact that I might have less money in my pocket at 30 than I did 20 which was not good man trust me and I resolved that like if I was going to get my shit back together like I was in such a bad spot that like really I needed to rebuild from the ground up meaning I needed somewhere to go at 730 in the morning no matter what it paid I needed to like get back on a routine like get my shit back together and so I called like my old boss that I worked construction in high school and he gave me a job for like $15 an hour okay I mean this goes from like making nearly six figures to like $15 an hour this was really bad you know but I was able to tell him exactly what was going on with me like hey man I fucked up on drugs I'm clean now but like and really all I need is like something to do like I will be helpful you know I just need I just need something to do you know now let's fast forward like seven years later I'm making a ton of freaking money I work for my house and I work with all men and I don't deal with DEI and I don't deal with bullshit you know and I and like the relationship I have with my boss is like built on honesty you know but I had to take a major step back man because like I tell you that like first or second day that I was on that job site and we you know I got sent down to Chipotle to get lunch for everybody and I am down in Georgetown like M Street like the power center of America okay and I walk into the Chipotle and everybody's in their suits you know and I'm standing there covered in dust and it's like you all think I'm just some redneck or something and it's like I'm as educated if not more educated than most of you and I was I used to dress like you when I went to Chipotle you know and look how low I am you know and but I'm so much happier my marriage is so much better man like it took time you know but like there's no way that I would get to where I'm at today if I had to like sort of like continue in the lie you know like if my new job was built on this like you know and the anxiety of knowing that if they ever found out like I mean that thought in the back of your head like that shit eats at you man like that's how you end up realizing right because you're not clean you're not living clean so I thought I would share that that I think that like I do understand like I do understand that sometimes like we we find ways to rationalize like compromising the truth for like expediency and practical concerns but you know in the long run I think it's a lot better to like be honest on the on the other hand employers are not going to be fully honest with you either just as a prospective you know job applicant so you're dealing with a situation where both parties usually are representing things that are not 100 accurate I completely agree with you but that's sort of their prerogative because they have the money and the power you know and you sort of have to like do what you got to do you know as the as a young man in particular so and I don't think they owe every detail but I I just can assure you that you know and I remember like my wife was like very upset when she found out like I was like at the construction site instead of like in another job but as I and like and it took time but now I just I don't think I could actually like sort of the work-life balance slash income slash lifestyle situation that we've come to would not have worked out like the route that she wanted me to go you know so anyway I think there's also a significant difference here between honesty and full disclosure so I believe that you should present yourself at a job interview in an honest way I don't believe that you should necessarily employ full disclosure in a job interview so so here I agree with you but how do you like okay practically speaking how do you honestly with how fully like why haven't you worked for 10 months like what's the answer well because I'm a fucking drug addict you know like I have really bad self-control problems or I got fired twice within six months because like I couldn't get out of bed before 10 30 in the morning you know and I was like he is fuck like but trust me that's not me anymore or like well aren't you working you know what do you say without line what do you say okay so what do you say depends on on the context are you now in the situation that you described are you now capable of getting up and showing up to a regular job if you're not that's one thing but if you are capable if you have recovered from that addiction then I don't see it as necessary to disclose in the job applicant process that you that you you know got fired then then I would start looking for a story where you can find a grain of truth in it so that you can say it with sincerity so if you're a new father then you know I just wanted my wife works and so it's up to me to take care of the kid or we we're building a home or remodeling a home and I just love remodeling I'm working with my father remodeling my home I can financially afford to take 10 months off work and just work with my father or work with my friend or I've always wanted to do consulting or I mean there's something that you can find a grain of truth to if you needed to but I I do hear you and that this was basically like the route that I was trying to go but the problem was was like I just you couldn't do it I couldn't do it because like when I would say like I couldn't I couldn't I could just the feeling I had inside of me like when I said that thing like this is when I talked myself into the corner I just reached this point in the conversation where like I just couldn't go for it like I just couldn't do it and I couldn't because I also didn't believe here's the thing I realized like I wasn't actually the guy yet who was up in the morning like yeah I needed to like recover from like crashing off and and adjust getting my brain sort of back to quote normal or something more normal after what I was doing but like there's no evidence that like I know how to get up in the morning because I have been doing it you know like I needed to go to the seven o'clock job and honestly like there were fits and starts like I wasn't an ideal employee at first it wasn't like oh I just walk in and I'm like the best version of myself it's been years living like you know you know being irresponsible let's just put it that way and and it's taking time to get my shit together you know yeah I mean this is yeah very individual so in your circumstance it sounds like what you did was was the best thing for you in the circumstance that I was describing this was someone with a professional license so I believe a license dude I was a CPA I'm a CPA okay like I had a license too like and I did forego like a golden path okay I walked off the golden path but did your did your disclosure cost you your CPA license because in the story I told by being fully disclosive they lost their license I have abandoned my license because I have no intention of ever being a CPA I dropped my CPA like I stopped doing CP like I let it go so I let it go because I never wanted to work like that again like the feeling of sitting in the cubicle the corporate shit they like that you know the women the women at the company meeting or the diverse meeting with no you know everybody's reaching their hands in the middle and there's not a single white hand okay like um I think now like where would I be like what would it take me to like continue to be successful in that setting eating so much shit dude the money I'm making now like we're like circumstances that have happened around me in like opportunities I've gotten um you know like when we started talking in 2018 at that point I was probably making uh with over like 50 g's okay not much we're like quite droopled that now and like with like a lot more like I you know I'm in charge of shit now so like I I just look at it as like yeah I took a massive step back and in the light it was not clear how it was going to go for years and my wife was not happy you know what I mean you know women will constantly dissuade you from doing anything it's not like the most safest like immediately visible in front of their face choice um right so there are just so many factors here see you you talk about integrity but there's also the integrity of responsibility for your family so you your family as soon as they were to swing your dramatic decrease yeah that's true it's true to do your you got to indulge your integrity and your family your family was able to survive it because your wife subsidized your integrity other people in a similar situation would not be in a position where their wife could subsidize their integrity so you have to take the consequences of what you're saying and doing uh in your family to your family into consideration so people in a different situation where someone else is not going to subsidize them being so filled with integrity may have to think of a different choice integrity is not just about something you say between you and a potential employer it's also about how will this affect my family how will this affect my children how will this affect people who are counting on me to earn yeah and what I would say is like I totally um I I can there's no question um that she was not like some um she was not like some stay-at-home mom with no marketable skills you know I mean she was able to produce income um and she's still I mean you're a very successful person okay there's no doubt about it but I would just say that I would just say that like the honest approach in my past it's it's it's usually and it's usually painful like it's it's like it the pain is is immediate and the benefits are uncertain and they come later and I've seen it like in this and in other aspects of my life like even my relationship with my wife like instead of like maybe you know avoiding certain subjects to quote make peace um like when things that are underneath the surface are like really addressed like it's a really painful process and then there's a really like there's like the risk that I don't know maybe break the relationship up or something but what's built after that like if you can get through it like it's just so much better and I guess what I'd say is I over the course of the last seven years I have become I I've just like I'm I'm I've I've been more honest than I than maybe like the prior seven and my life is going in a better direction yeah I mean honestly is a good thing but you're what you're also really talking I think more accurately is being more disclosive you know you can be honest without disclosing a whole bunch of challenging or damaging information and you you're siding with you're disclosing more well because there is lying by omission sometimes like keeping your mouth shut like I mean dude I mean think about like the inner I mean relationships you've had where you've swallowed swallowed shit or kept your mouth shut because maybe you thought somebody would like take you you know it would like lead to a conflict that you didn't really want because you cared about the person or something and then and then like at the end of the day maybe like you do it finally like boils out right like it pops out like how you really feel and their reaction is not nearly as bad as you thought it was you know we're we're like if you would maybe set it sooner you could save yourself some real heartache like I said it's like a feeling in the back of your head that anxiety that like the things that aren't being taken care of that like cause people to escape into addiction like I can think of you know time you know when I struggle with porn there's times like there's something at work that I need to do or something like some bill I need to pay or like some doctor's appointment I need to make that I keep putting off and it's like it to like shut that voice up like consume the thing that like it you know the the addiction whatever it is you know so I feel like if I had gone into that career and not like based off the even with a grain of truth in it like it would always be back in the back of my mind and like that kind of living that way is like what makes you fall off the wagon you know it's interesting because I mean you're all about 12 steps and stuff it's like I mean they they are all about like I mean I mean I think it's over the top like let me go I'm gonna go call my girlfriend from high school and be like hey just so you know I cheated on you at a party one time or something like I need to make amends because I was a cranker like I don't know that's kind of well the anecdote I was I was giving you was from a 12 step context but the amount you disclose it's usually something you talk about with people with more recovery than yourself because it's not automatically it's not automatically the right thing for you to disclose everything to everyone for example it can cause a lot of you know needless pain and disruption to your life and to other people to disclose certain things that you like let's say you killed someone you know I don't think people in your life would be better off learning about that yeah or if you're cheating you cheated on a bunch of ex-girlfriends I don't think you should call them up and apologize for cheating on them you would just you would get you would get direction from pretty much any sponsor anyone with recovery to not call up people and cause them needless harm and and you you matter too so a lot of people they get recovery or they they find they seize on some virtue such as integrity and then they just want to go 100 full bore without respect to how it's going to affect them and other people and having integrity and decency meaning you have to take yourself and other people into account that's part of integrity so telling your spouse that you've had sex with a best friend which she did not know about that may not necessarily be in everyone's best interests so people often just want to start disclosing everything but that sometimes is not the the best thing to do for other people and for yourself you can you can needlessly destroy people with needless disclosure that there has to be some consideration for for other people and for yourself it's not it's like the Constitution is not a death warrant honesty and disclosure it's just not a death warrant either like you make amends to drug dealers for example I'll just finish this point you in 12 steps you often people need to make amends to a drug dealer but you don't get to meet them alone in a dark alley you take big people from the program with you you know you meet them at a Starbucks and you repay them the money that you owe them pass yeah so the convert I feel like there's like something in that that's like it's the red pill is the convert the converts behavioral pattern I mean you are a convert I would say you would you not say that in those first however many years you were like you were clinging to certain even if the principle is Judaism or like some aspects of it that you found so transformative in your own life and you want to proselytize that to others you know because it's like oh my gosh like my eyes are open I see now right and like I want you to be able to see because I care about you whatever um I think that that's like that's human nature like I I think that yeah I mean it's interesting like is in some ways like how that's repulsive to everybody around you is kind of like part of the consequence of your lifestyle before that conversion or part of like I don't know man it's like I can see how that looks foolish to the rest you know to the rest of us or like a cradle Catholic like some convert is like a fucking weirdo you know what I mean because they're almost like more fundamental than the person that lives it of course like all of us are just so damn complacent in our own lives like people also I don't know I feel like I don't know you know just to bring back to like your subject of the day I was listening to you talk about the guy um or how how Christian nationalists like tend not to go to church you know and how it's almost kind of like they get like politicized like you leave church and you get politicized because church is really not that political of a place you know um I mean the rainbow churches are but they're not really churches but but like um and so and they certainly aren't like uh like party politic at least like the white churches I've been to maybe black churches are different but um I feel like when you leave the church you're sort of like you're you're Christian like it's like that energy that you mentioned like typically goes into charity right or like your community gets like harnessed by politics right you can put yes in the same way that like secular jews like are political right I would say more so than the religious ones yeah like already I mean they have like the local thing like they want to dominate and get their welfare and stuff like that but I would imagine they're not like as caught up in like Donald Trump versus Joe Biden in the way that like the secular ones are you know yeah I mean there's a void when people leave religion that often gets filled by politics yeah so it's like christian the rise of christian ash you know because you know gosh as much as like in some ways it really defines my mindset I do find myself like going I mean is this really like you know the idea that like we're gonna find christ who like politics is a joke it's a joke you know it's not gonna make the world a better place you know what I mean I don't know like it's just a twisting of it you know and it's and it's like easily captured by other people like you know the government has really and I think we see this with like the ADL thing like who does the ADL speak for and who's gonna bear the consequences of the ADL's actions right like ADL you know it's like I'm sure that like in Germany at one point there was like certain people speaking for Jews that basically did not help Jews stay out of concentration and they themselves were not the ones that went and like you know ADL's just it's big Jew versus little Jew you've made this point many times and I think like you know big christ versus little christ I don't think big christ has anything to do with politics and actually I become like really I mean it's been in on my mind for years but I really do think like Donald Trump and Elon Musk and Marjorie Taylor Greene like if anybody's the anti-crisis like these characters like it's not going to be the people like explicitly attacking Christians that are actually the antichrist it'll be the people manipulating and like cloaking themselves in it well I mean you're hitting on many themes there but one is disillusionment and I think we get disillusioned when we put more into something than it can handle so if we think that moving American politics in a more christian nationalist direction is going to be some kind of messianic change for life in America no it's not it might incrementally make certain things better and it might have some negative effects as well but it's not going to be the ultimate salvation so people I think get disillusioned with politics because they put you know an exaggerated amount of emphasis on politics if they if they had a more sober perspective on politics they recognize the limitations of the political yeah and there's also this like sort of sort of this like old testament mindset like that's you know excited and it's definitely part of the bible but I don't think that vengeful like go about like destroy your enemies I mean that's not christmas it's just really not and I think that like when you go down that road you end up destroying yourself so I think that's what colonial you know colonial I thought it's like really interesting tweak today where the guy it was basically saying like someone said like Israel is like the last fashion of european right and someone commented like no like european colonization was like this like post-referring like geizing of the west so like our colonialism was actually this like jewish energy or I'd say let's I mean to me it's like Old Testament energy like going into the promised land taking for yourself destroying your enemies it's actually like been the downfall of europeans I mean seriously like the moral frame the moral frame is such that because of colonialism now all of our countries are have I mean the demographic replacement has happened like it's over like we got colonized like we destroyed ourselves for what for like spices holy shit did you see did you see the movie saving private ryan yeah many times okay remember the scene where the german soldier pleads for his life and they let him let him go free and then he comes back and kills one of them so there's a time and a place to kill your enemy and not let him go free and there's a time and a place not to and you don't want to be wrong yeah but I mean that's also like propaganda right like that's also real life that choice you could make uh you could make I could I could write that story in many ways right like no but it reflects things that go on in real life sometimes letting your enemy goes free go free you know cost you your life yeah but there's like many times in history where like magnet like the guys only you know he hangs on he has like effective rulership because he is like magnanimous yes like that's how you unite afterwards like it's complicated it depends on the situation yeah it's a situation whether that whether you know I could write that story where like the guys in a tight spot later and the german guys got him by the balls but because you let him go he let you go you know I mean like I could write that too and that would also be real life like the repress you know reciprocity across like the you know inhumanity of this battlefield that is also true so it's interesting though because like I think that I think that I think there's a difference in the jewish and christian worldview when it comes to like that specific thing like what do you do with your enemy what do you do with those who have burnt you like where does where's the role of vengeance and you know I don't know if we are I think I missed this the time but like what did khanye say about about christians getting sucked into like jewish vengeance against germ like against hitler like that's not our religion to like hold to be like you know this forever blood debt against uh hitler and the germans I think jews do have that like hitler is the eternal enemy yes I mean like you must be destroyed yeah malik is the eternal enemy I mean that's for 3000 years the Torah commands that you shall blot out a malik never forget what a malik did to you so that was just a continuation of the various a malikites in jewish history right and then they just have to be destroyed and like yes you know so which is like genocide or whatever word you want to put on it but like that is not christ message and I think that's like very clear so um I think that you know the great thing about the loop forward shows that helped I think it's like helped educate a lot of people about the differences between jews and christians and people can do with that what they want but I think it's important that everybody not be ignorant about those differences now I'm curious back to your 2017 situation did you have people in your life that you could talk this over with or did you make all these decisions on your own pretty much you mean like when to go like what job yeah yeah how to approach a job interview what what job to take because I'd like to think there's one thing that we could agree on that anyone finds themselves in a situation like what you described that they have people in their life that they can talk to about because the individual alone does not make good decisions when compared to having people that he can talk things over with I would think that nobody no one see no one really understood like how I felt inside my own head about like you know what does it mean to be addicted to this drug like why is it like that you feel like you know what does it mean to be four or five six months of like not like not be able to like plan to be on an hour you know what I mean like that all your capable of doing is like sort of what's right in front of you um and um so no one really understood that I felt like I was gonna fail and you know what honestly let's dude you know what I I've totally forgotten about this but like there's another like very clear parallel like if I go back another um let's see 20,000 if I go back another like eight nine years before this when I got kicked out of college my first semester or like halfway through my second semester I kicked out because I was like got caught with like weed in my dorm okay um and so I got suspended for a semester so I couldn't come back for like a year and in the meantime like you know I had to show that I was like working on my problem so I was going to this like group class for um addiction and it was like mostly DUI people who were like being put through the thing and of course like there's some random Spanish guy in there that gives me like an ounce of weed for no reason I don't even know what the deal was like from the class like I was still smoking weed okay and it came time and like I worked that year I was working for the construction company I work for now like I come back making $9 an hour and like had paid my dad back the $10,000 for the semester he would send me to school again I got all my paperwork they accepted me back and I decided I said dad I can't go back I was like I know that if I go back there I'm gonna get kicked out again or I'm gonna get like D's like I'm just I can't do it so I went to community college and and like after a little bit of you know it took me about a year to like get it together basically my dad cut me off and I had to start paying for cause myself I got straight A's the rest of the way man I graduated with honors from a good business school I got a great job but like if I'd gone back there it because everybody's thought I should go back like why would you not go back like you can go back to college like they'll let you back in it's like no I can't do it because I'm not you know I'm not I'm not I'm not able you know and like it's led me to where I am now man I got a good life you know I got a lot of cousins I got a lot of cousins I'm definitely the most well off like between me and my wife I got great kids and I've done a lot of fucked up shit but I feel like you know I fall off you know I don't know right so when I talked about it would have been good if you had people in your situation had people to talk with I mean people who have experienced without or all addiction so people who don't have experience without or all addiction aren't going to be much help to you it's true it's true I yeah I mean it kind of happened after the fact but I like sort of after I started working and you know after I left accounting decided to go work with the construction company was that I had a cousin who like dealt with addiction like the second cousin or my dad's cousin like the older generation and she told me and this is like the thing I've like hung on to and like passed on to other people who have I know dealt with this is that you can't be 110% of yourself like you know this Adderall makes you feel like you can be 110% of yourself but like that's not that doesn't last that like all you can be is 100% of yourself like and being okay with that like being okay with like that you can't get it done you know and the place is so many areas of life like all the hobbies you wish you had the skills you wish you had the work that you wish you know you had gotten done or you could do more you could be better you could be stronger or whatever you could be healthier and it's like you know just you gotta be you gotta be comfortable with yourself you know and and that's like it's it's helped me stay clean it's like yeah there's times like ideal is like certain deadlines that work certain pressures where you know I really wish I could get my hands on some of that stuff to like push through it but but then I go you know what like I just can't and I I just I need to deal with the consequences of that or or approach work approach these situations differently in the future so I don't get put into corners where like I need to boost myself up and like I said man most people don't most people will say I think what you say which is like you know do what you need to do to get ahead and like no I didn't really like a suggestion no no I didn't say do what you need to do to say ahead said that if you want to talk about integrity like consider the consequences for the people around you such as your family as well as yourself and that doesn't mean that you need to operate with full disclosure right never said do what you need to do but you should be talking to other people who are in a similar situation as you have how did you how are you not saying yeah but how are you not saying that I mean you are saying like the basically the truth is when it's inconvenient that it's can go out the window at times there are higher values than the truth and you believe that too you don't disclose 100% of everything to everyone you encounter truth is one of many values but truth isn't like my but but see truth is not like my opinion of the hat you're wearing right like I think your hat is stupid it crosses my mind I don't share it but like that's not the truth right but like you didn't ask me what I think of your hat you know what I mean I'm talking about the most embarrassing things that we've ever done you don't owe that to everyone you meet to list after them the most embarrassing things you've ever done sure sure but like I think like if if someone asked you uh and you don't always you know everyone 100% disclosure like I haven't told you I agree with you yeah that I that people can't like if they can't like see it like if it's not like relevant or doesn't come up like you're you don't owe like let me reveal to you things that you never would have known if I didn't choose to tell you right now like you know under the cloak of anonymity in this conversation on YouTube and like the the history of the conversations that we've had together like I don't it doesn't and I probably have shared like but all of that in like different stories before anyway I don't you know I feel comfortable to share that in this context in the context of an employer yeah I'm not telling you about what happened in college but like if you're asking me about like why I haven't worked in the last 10 months I just for what whether it's my conscience or something I just couldn't like I couldn't do it without like feeling like you feel you know the feeling of feeling transparent like people can see through your life yes and then like that feeling is like projects out and that's when they know they can't trust you like people see it people see that reaction and like the pathological liar can like shield that and I don't have that so I'll give you another example I'm very public you know sex and love addict you know being in recovery sobriety for about 11 years if I share that with someone in the workplace there there are a lot of people who will use that against me sure I agree I agree with you I think that like did they ask you about if you beat off last night you know I'm saying like your relationship with beating off no so you don't bring it up you know what I mean yeah but like if you were getting in a relationship with a woman oh yeah but if I was officially like in that context in that context yes that would disclose you would yes so what I'm saying is like in an yes my employment history is relevant to my employer right it's not full disclosure to or it's not over disclosure to me to reckon with the truth of that situation like you know my CV has a blemish you know and and I can lie about it and hope no one ever finds out and like basically like carry that around with me you know that that guilt and that because it's a it's a moving forward situation like my fidelity to my high school girlfriend or something is irrelevant to the future therefore it doesn't need to be like go back in address now if I was like trying to become a recovering alcoholic and I was like actively having an affair with my wife's best friend actively or something like that I mean you got a deal with that or you're never going to get clean now you're showing your wife with your best friend 20 years ago like you kissed at a party one time and that woman's like dead or something and I you know disclosure in that case like how does that help you move forward I don't you know maybe I can see less of a case but you can't live you can't continue to like live in your sin you know you know what I mean yeah you can't stay there so I feel like I feel like in this context of like how you know what do you owe your employer I think like I did things in my career that shut me out from that path like I fucked it up and I can like hope a lie will be enough of a band aid to like keep it alive but it would not be like a healthy strong foundation we're advancing through that career and the one that I have now while it's a different career path and has like different pros and cons um it is on a solid foundation nobody cares about things that happened when I was an accountant you know what I mean no one cares it doesn't come up it's not relevant so I don't tell anybody I mean other than my boss who's a family friend but how many bosses who are alcoholics do you think disclose that to prospective job applicants virtually none bosses don't disclose their own addictions to potential job applicants but they're bosses like bosses and employees are not equal in many regards why do you owe more to a potential employer than a potential employer owes you I I don't see I don't see potential employers telling potential employees about their own addiction history you know I feel like it's like the relationship between father and son like father has his sins right like every father is not perfect right but he the son you hold the son to standards it's standards of behavior that we might falter to like hold ourselves to and the son can like fixate on the hypocrisy of his father or understand that like just because his father's not living up to these ideals don't mean the ideals aren't good in and of themselves like you should be honest like just because your employer's not doesn't mean you shouldn't be because it's about your like your the health of your mind and soul in career and things and like just because your dad falls short or your boss falls short doesn't like excuse you well I mean it virtually never happens that a potential employer discloses to a job applicant the the employer's history with with addiction it virtually never happens so I would see in this context of applying for a job just as the boss and his supervisors are not going to disclose to a job applicant their own histories of addiction why would the job applicant feel a necessity to disclose that to potential employers and unless there's no way of going forward without it so I would assume that a potential employee could perhaps talk about a depression or talk about there are all sorts of reasons I just don't see necessarily yeah yeah yeah I guess what it says like I was not so far gone that like I couldn't like the guilt just got to me man and and also came me and so like what do you do with that like is that good is that bad like do I need to is that path pathological uh you know I don't think you could pathologize that man like okay so I couldn't like compartmentalize the lie you know right that's like compartmentalize it that guy that you that then felt like he couldn't deal with it man he couldn't he couldn't deal with it and like you know what the alternate to say like oh he should have done x y and z like that's not what he could have done because he couldn't have been thinking about like how if it was eating him think about it man like he ate him up so much that he had to say that like how could he keep that inside he couldn't do it if you felt that way about something it would each up and how often have you been betrayed by a woman who said oh you know I I recognize that I committed to uh x y z but now I feel strongly in a certain way so I need to go do what I need to do you know completely violating every understanding that you've you've had together no they haven't actually I've more I that really hasn't happened to me to be honest um a couple of times it hurts but I I always said like I did that way more than they did so um it's just I guess like the times that like okay like I could think of one girl one girl in college that like I that like kind of let's just say I liked her more than she liked me you know what I mean or we were kind of in a relationship but I was uh more you know I she was still looking for her husband you know I'm saying like and uh she eventually found him like one day like she went home for christmas break and she ended up marrying that guy and it's like you know I guess like I look at it's like I hit I too have done that to women and it's also natural and like you know I just uh here's another thing the way I'm thinking about this I think one measure of maturity is how much stress you can handle without lashing out at yourself and others so some of what you're talking about I think is absolutely the path of integrity I think a lot of what you're talking about as well is simply people who have not developed the maturity to deal with stress without lashing out at themselves or others such as by full disclosure so I think some situations you're just talking about people who can't deal with the anxiety and so they want to disclose disclose disclose even if it wrecks themselves and other people and what what really needs to happen is the person needs needs a path to reduce their anxiety so that they can make better decisions and so just because one overwhelmingly wants to get rid of an anxiety doesn't necessarily mean that you should do the first thing that pops into your head but I wonder if it's like it's sort of this like conversion period where like you basically have so much built up that you do need to like sort of clean house before you yeah that's why you should clean house to a sponsor or to someone with more experience in a particular area you should be absolutely fully disclosive to somebody or to a community of people and you should not necessarily take it on your own shoulders to unilaterally make decisions on these you know nuclear issues you should absolutely get clean with certain people you know yeah that's great no that's I think that that is like I think that's right so so who did I have in that circumstance it felt like nobody because like I said like no one could really relate like I've had experience I mean I guess like I ended up starting going to this thing called Celebrate Recovery it's like a network they're in I'm sure have you heard of it I'm not sure okay well it's like a network you know they they basically might be like Thursday nights hosted at a bunch of I've seen them at like evangelical churches like Thursday nights like an AA meeting we go there's like a little worship service for like 15 minutes and then we go we talk for an hour like about shit we're dealing with like go around the circle like what's going on you know and you know I did it I did it because my mom begged me to do it and how much did it help really kind of unclear I mean I think it did help I couldn't put my finger on it you know and in some ways like the boss that I have now like it was a figure who like when I came to him for a job it was not like here give me I need a career it was like dude I just need something for like a few weeks to like get me on a schedule like I would honestly do it for free he you know offered me you know basically a token amount of money right and um and then it's just like I was just useful you know I mean it just kind of like inertia like it just kind of took off you know and we had that relationship but you know I don't think that I would ever what would I do if I had like inevitably to find a job like had to go out outside of the the network of the family or family like connections I think I might have eventually like had to lie man you know what I mean or I couldn't have done it the way I did it because no employer would take you if you disclose that you had like a drug problem like but just alternatives for jobs yeah alternatives to what you did is to have a therapist or to be in a 12-step program or a men's group and it would have been most helpful if you had people who had the very thing that you were struggling with such as Adderall addiction so there are a ton of I'm sure 12-step people and 12-step programs that you know deal with Adderall addiction and so you can talk to people who've recovered from an Adderall addiction and you can be fully disclosive to them and within that circle and then get experience strength and hope from them on you know building your life back up and yeah man and it's something I would just say to like anybody who might ever listen to this it's like even when things seem like really dark they really do turn around and where do you think like your life is really like it's really not and uh and and it doesn't happen overnight and it's not perfect but like don't give up because I had you know I have a neighbor who earlier this week I mean she's like give her take a year on like late 30s okay eight-year-old and 11-year-old they went to school they came home she was not alive anymore wow and it's just like this is a woman that like I've talked to many times over the years like during COVID like hours like watching the kids got to know her and had no idea you know and so yeah I gotta get some stuff done yeah I was just gonna say yeah it's like the Billy Joel song you're any human but it really helps it was even better than believing that it gets better is to see concrete examples of people all around you in your social circle uh in your recovery circle whose lives have gotten better and they have recovered from the very thing that has befell you so is that why you hang around to stay around these circles because I mean I guess like new guys do need you yeah yeah and I feel I get strong from feeling you know helpful to other people who have similar problems that I've struggled with so it's a mutually reinforcing thing they get help from me and I get help from helping them so by my desire to be helpful to them that helps keep me on the right track okay bro thanks all right man it was great talking to you take care bye bye okay play a little bit more here from Ibrahim x kendi yeah look I'm probably putting words in kendi's mouth here but I think from his point of view the things that we were mentioning history and culture and geography or whatever they're all still unfair you know that like and I'm gonna stick with this training example to keep it out of the american context but I think he would say look yes you can give me lots of explanations for why a kid growing up in the country here is going to get is going to have a bad education and not learn very much money and just be essentially marginalised in various ways and you can say it's it's all complicated and due to history and so on but ultimately um if that person had been born in uh metropolitan melbourne they'd be doing a lot better not statistically speaking and that's unfair so