 Good afternoon to you all. My name is Joyce O'Connor and I chair the digital group here at the IIE way. You are very welcome to our webinar on digital innovation in Europe. Before we begin, I'd just like to note one change to our panel lineup. Cecilia Bonefeld-Dahl, Director General of Digital Europe will not be able to join us today due to unforeseen circumstances. Cecilia sends her apologies. We are delighted to welcome her colleague, however, Una Fitzpatrick, who's a board member of Digital Europe and who will take Cecilia's place and will be representing Digital Europe in today's panel discussion. You're very welcome, Una. And I'd also like to welcome all our other panelists, Carl Gibbons and Henna Verkunen. Una Fitzpatrick is a board member of Digital Europe. As I said, she's vice chair of Digital Europe, a Brexit task force and was also the director of technology Ireland. Henna Verkunen is a Finnish member of the European Parliament where she serves on the committee on industry research and energy. Henna has had a distinguished career in her own country in Finnish politics where she previously served as the Finnish minister for transport for public administration and for education. Carl Gibbons is divisional manager for ICT and the international service sector in Enterprise Ireland. She has served in several roles advising on digital technology innovation, including the industrial development at Irish Science Foundation Ireland and the Digital Health Development Agency. You're all very welcome and we look forward to your discussion later on. This is the fourth event in the IIEA project entitled Europe's Digital Future, which is exploring the topic of digital sovereignty in Europe. As part of this project, which is sponsored by Google, a year long program of events and research is exploring what the concept means and what future it might hold for the EU and in particular small economies like Ireland. Hello to our colleagues in Sweden, Gunnar Hopemark, in Denmark, Jan Ho-Smith, in the Letterlands Brigette Dekker and in Estonia, Adrian Venables. All are working with us here at the IIEA with Andrew Gilmour, Seamus Allen and myself, and we hope that our first publication will be available in the coming months. We have, as you see, three distinguished speakers today from a diverse range of perspectives on digital innovation in Europe. The panel will examine how Europe's potential can be unlocked and will assess the key building blocks to support digital innovation. Hannah, Una and Carl will address the question of how innovation and investment can strengthen Europe's digital resilience and capabilities to accelerate digital transformation and lead technology innovation. In particular, they will address four key questions. What are the building blocks that are needed to ensure EU innovation? What scale of funding is needed and how can this be raised? What are the roles of government industry and the public-private partnership? And how can Europe unlock its innovation potential? As you can see, this is a very timely discussion. Our panelists will speak for seven minutes each, and then I will go to the question answers to you or audience. Please use the function, the Q&A function at the bottom first of your screen and send in your questions during the session if you would like to do that. And I will come to you at the end when each panelist have finished their presentation. Please join us also on Twitter using the handle at IIEA. So I'd like to come to our panel now and our first panelist, Una Fitzpatrick. Una, over to you and thank you very much again for joining us today. My problem at all Joyce and thank you and the entire IIEA team for having me. As you mentioned, I'm here to represent on behalf of Digital Europe and Cecilia, so I will try to deliver her message. Though I'll probably not be as succinct and as excellent as she is. Are those slides up there? Yep, lovely. You can see them perfectly. Brilliant. So just in terms of myself, I'm the director of Technology Ireland with the trade association within IBEC that represents technology companies. Technology Ireland are members of Digital Europe, one of the many national trade association members that cover all member states as well as corporate members. And I suppose as my role in terms of being involved with the executive board of Digital Europe, we've been heavily involved in terms of the advocacy and lobbying activities of Digital Europe at a European level. In terms of ensuring that there's appropriate levels of EU digital and investment and innovation. And I suppose, you know, that first line there that growth rates in the digital economy are 2.5 times higher than non-digitalized industrial ecosystems is something really to note. I suppose that's really the driver of why we have pushed in terms of driving and increasing the funding going into digital at a European level, because we know that the return on investment really will be there if it can be delivered upon. So first of all, just to talk about the EU Recovery and Resilience Fund. As you can see, it's a total package of just over 6702 billion euro, which is, as you can see, a heck of a lot of money. And, you know, fantastically that 20% of that has been earmarked for digital and 37% towards the green transition. I think what's interesting to note is actually a lot of member states have gone beyond the 20% minimum in terms of their own budgeting plans and really included digitalization projects throughout their entire ORF applications. From an Irish perspective, 30% of Ireland's application is earmarked for digital projects. And I suppose that's, I think just under 300 million euro. So that's a 300 million euro over a two to three year period. So, again, a really, really significant investment and a fantastic opportunity. I suppose this program doesn't exist alone though. And I suppose we have to be cognizant that it needs to work in alignment alongside other EU digital programs. Of course, there's the Digital Europe program, which again isn't coordinated by Digital Europe. It just has the same name. There's 7.5 billion that's really focused on things like AI, cybersecurity skills, and that's over a six year period. So another, you know, significant fund, as well as the Horizon Europe funding program, 15 to 20 billion. Again, really focused on research into digital technology. So there is, you know, from our sense of it, you know, really good funding levels there now and I suppose really we're into the implementation phase. And I suppose that's really where the EU strategy for the digital decade kicks in. So it really complements the ORF with a lot of structural reforms, target KPIs and, you know, monitoring and accountability mechanisms. So there's kind of three areas here. So the better uptake of pan European projects. So I suppose what we want to avoid seeing is that each member state source of goes it alone and that there's kind of stylization and there's maybe repetition across member states of what people are investing in. I think we can all agree that's probably not a really productive way to use these European funds. So really, you know, encouraging member states to work together on projects. I think we can, you know, see, especially in the politics and some of the, you know, more eastern regions that they really, you know, this member states really coming together. And I suppose from an Irish perspective, we have to make sure that we get involved there again in the mix and really make sure that we're involved in some of those leading projects as well. In terms of KPIs, KPIs are really important, but they're also really important to have the right KPIs and make sure that they're ambitious enough and make sure they really target the right digitalization priorities. I think bad KPIs are nearly worse than not happening. From a reporting and transparency point of view, I think accountability is going to be really important here. I think what we want to avoid is kind of, you know, money flowing out, but there's no perhaps accountability. So certain member states really driving through and others maybe not so much. And I suppose that'll kind of come to it later, but in terms of the powers of the commission to really ensure that member states are held to account in terms of how they report and how they prioritize here. And I think what was interesting, obviously, within the commission, you know, there was a team pulled together to review all the member states and recovery resilience fund applications. And so what we'd like to see is that, you know, similar resources or kind of permanent resources are put in place to really oversee both recovery resilience fund, again, the digital decade strategy and to really make sure that from a commission level, both at the commission and that member state level that there's really good governance governance and transparency. I suppose from an Irish perspective, we in technology Ireland and I bet are really been calling for that whole of government approach and really making sure that there is transparency, there is stakeholder engagement both by industry academia, all stakeholders and partners. And so it's very clear that the roadmap, both at a member state level, but then at a commission level as well. So in terms of how to ensure that these EU investments really have impact. And I think, you know, obviously we've said that the ambitious recovery plans need to be matched with structural reform. So I think really at a member state level, and I suppose from an Irish level that, you know, the actual structures and governance processes are there to ensure that where funds and digitalization projects are enacted upon that they're clear in terms of what their return on investment will be. So just to talk through kind of some of the key aspects of this. And as I mentioned previously, a European vision so that there's increased cross border cooperation. And really want to see that, you know, there's as much bang for a book as possible from a European sense and that means, you know, getting as many member states involved in projects together as possible. You know, this is this can only be a good thing and it avoids duplication which ultimately is a waste of funds. Secondly, that the investment matched is matched with structural reforms. So I think what we've seen is that a lot of member states have have very clearly outlined that significant portion of their digital budget through the or F is really focused on public administration reform, and which, you know, it's a positive. But I suppose what we really need to see that the structural reforms that go behind that it's not really digitalization funds going into kind of prop up already maybe existing creaking systems. And within that then that they're very clear and measurable KPIs. So as thirdly is to unlock strategic as an enabler so I think we're all pretty clear that, you know, data key enabling technologies and the digitalization of SMEs are really key and, you know, kind of a short to medium term key key priority. But there are also kind of longer term priorities that I suppose we can't forget, even though this is kind of a, you know, we're looking for impact but we also have to look to the long term impact. And that's where we kind of point to skills and that's both, you know, children's education level, as well as a reskilling and upscaling enough of existing workers. And fourth then would be the projects that create business opportunities. So, again, what we want to see here is both opportunities for SMEs and, you know, from an Irish perspective that indigenous Irish tech technology companies will have access to, you know, go forward for a lot of these projects. And that really, you know, creates that sort of level playing field and really that's true clear frameworks and clear and procurement guidelines. The fifth aspect then is around transparency and multi stakeholder collaboration. So, again, I know I've mentioned previously that, you know, engagement of stakeholders transparency and really good governance models but that's going to be really important because I think what we want to ultimately do as a number of states is to really see buy in. And we want to see that everyone has bought into the European digital decade and then everyone agrees on the priorities and the focus areas. And from an Irish perspective, you know, our sense of it is that there is a need for, you know, a kind of a centralized point at a government level who really is kind of controlling all the levers of the state be that from from the public side but also from industry and all of the stakeholders and that is, you know, active and honest collaboration as much as possible. The six point then is accountability and oversight so I know I've already stated this but it is really an important part of this in order to ensure fairness and across the member states from a European perspective. We really do think that there is probably a need for the commission to have really strong oversight and maybe some, some, you know, actual teeth in terms of powers and to really be able to, you know, obviously work with member states who might have issues, and but also to ensure that there are some controls and I suppose, you know, restrictions are put on member states who maybe aren't adhering to their plans as appropriate. So finally in terms of some of our KPIs for the digital decade, you can see some of them there. These are kind of digital Europe one stuff by 2025 we want to see 50% of SMEs using big data analytics at the moment that's only 12 so some of these you know there's, there's a kind of a long way to go in a short time and I think from our indications is that there's no reason why it can't happen either. And at the moment, you know, I think we're all aware that there's, you know, not a huge number of European unicorns but by 2025 we want to see 25% of the world's your unicorns coming from Europe. I suppose again, you know, by 2025 that 90% of people and without formal education should be internet users and again really that's increasing digitalization skills across society. So again, you know, I'm coming back to the economic aspect 3% of EU countries GDP should be spent on research and innovation. And I suppose at the moment the average is two and I think Ireland is actually even lower than that. So again, and you know, it's kind of a major focus for ourselves and technology Ireland but also at a digital Europe level. So as you can see, you know, there's a fantastic level of investment funds available now I think we can all agree that really the funding is there now. And it's the mechanisms the oversight and the actual plans that are put in place by member states are actually going to be really important now and delivering. I think there's huge opportunities to try forward and for Europe as a whole to take a quantum leap in terms of how it's positioned as a global leader in digital. And it's really kind of up to us and through all our associations and all stakeholders to really come together to try and make that happen. I think the or F and the digital decade really do give us an unprecedented opportunity and we have really had this level of funding specifically focused on digital before. And it's really up to us to make it right. And I suppose I'll end on a quote from Cecilia she often says this, we need to think big, think European and think digital. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for what Europe wants and how it's going about it so thank you very much for that. We'll come to Hannah now and Hannah you're going to look at it from the perspective of a of an MEP with your background of course, as a minister in the Finnish Parliament so we look forward to your presentation. Thanks very much Hannah. Yes, thank you so much madam chair and I think it's very good to continue after una because I very much also share her views and digital Europe's use I think there was very important points you were raising. I want to thank IIA for this invitation discuss digital innovation in Europe. Because I think this is very important topic we know that the corona crisis has, it has very much accelerated digitalization as more and more people's work, studies and everyday life has become digital and also significant part of this change I think it will be become permanent. The EU and the member states they should not try to roll back the clock. Instead, I think we must make the most of these chains accelerating the digital economy is going to be a key factor in recovering from the corona crisis and moreover for securing also the European competitiveness we shouldn't lack behind our competitors. And of course because I'm a legislator and decision maker like madam chair said, I'm always of course looking very much the regulation that how much it's in currencies innovations in Europe. And we know that according to studies bringing down digital barriers within the EU could increase the European Union's GDP by 450 million euros. So we know that there's still big obstacles for businesses in Europe because we, we don't have real single market yet even that we have been tried to create it in during the last years. But we know that there's still work ahead of us and a common digital single market would also help European technology businesses and startups by helping them to compete against global digital science science. So it's crucial that our legislation is designed in a way that promotes greater than hinders innovations. And also regulating digital services and markets should be holistic and technology neutral and future proof. I think we must avoid a situation where legislation would impose a different set of rules for digital actors, which would hinder their growth opportunities. And also when we're making legislations in the European level, I personally I see that this digital part is one of the main challenging parts, because the technology is developing very, very fast. And our decision making process is so slowly, often it takes years before we, we are negotiating on the regulation and before it comes into the force. And that's why we should always have very long term approach and very technology neutral approach when we are setting these digital roles. But I think this is one of the most important points of view to where we have to focus in Europe when we are regulating digital markets that we should always take care that it should be innovation friendly it should encourage new ideas, innovations and investments in Europe. And nowadays it's more and more important that we also promote openness and human rights and protect people's privacy and rights in the online world because we know that internet it's a very big part of our everyday life. So it's crucial that the same rules and values that apply in a real world, they should also apply online. And of course, it sounds simple, but it's not always so simple because we can often have that kind of practices online that couldn't happen in offline world so often we don't have experience of that kind of business models for example. But now for example the new digital services act, it includes several provisions that strengthen freedom of speech and human rights and we want to secure them also in the internet world. So for example the increased responsibility of large social media companies to remove illegal content, new ways to dispute moderation decisions on online platforms and better access also to date for researchers those are examples of that how we want to make sure that we have the same democracy also and freedom of speech in internet in same time when we are tackling illegal content and products in internet. Una was already underlining the role of investments and recovery package. It's important part now when we try to boost innovations. I'm very happy that the next generation EU package will also include now significant investments in digitalization. As we know at least 20% of the package should be used to promote digitalization and it's vital that we meet this commitment. Important investments include those directly to high speed and modern telecommunications infrastructure such as 5G, channeling research and development funding into a new digital services, investing in cybersecurity and improving citizens digital literacy. And I see like Una was already underlining that we have to really look at the role of SMEs because there is a lot of potential in digitalization in our SMEs and there's also big differences between them so I think we should really boost investments in SMEs to digitalization. But then now I have nearly used my seven minutes already but then I would also mention a few challenges I'm seeing here and of course one of them is that in same time when we have the recovery package and I'm very happy we have it now and we are boosting digital investments with it. But anyway I'm very disappointed that we couldn't get enough funding for those important projects in our multi-annual financial framework. We should have had more funding for digital infrastructure there because often now when we are funding the member states projects then often the cross-border element is forgotten here. So I see that there is risk that because if we have had the same funding in our multi-annual financial framework we could be more sure that the projects are also bringing true EU added value. And I'm also disappointed that we couldn't get enough funding for Horizon program because it's the most important program we have for research and innovations. And parliament wanted to increase it for 50% but we couldn't reach that so I'm a little bit disappointed for that but of course now we want to make most out of this recovery package. And then another big challenge now of course is the lack of digital skills and there we really need investments in older levels in the I think in the municipalities and regions but also in the member states and in the European level. Because we see that it's a very big challenge for whole Europe that we have to invest more for the skills and the digital skills. And now another problem at the moment is that less than 20% of workers in the IT sector are women. And this kind of segregation not only impacts women's employment opportunities but it's a massive waste of potential also that will also negatively impact the content and asexibility of digital services. So I think if I should conclude that how we should and could boost innovations in Europe in digital sector, I would underline the role of research and development investments and access to markets. So it means the regulation innovation friendly regulation, and then also access to talented people, and it means that we have to invest to skills and the digital skills in older level in Europe. So I think these three areas we have here to where we have to invest. I suppose it complimentary complimentary remarks to Una, but also emphasizing again that European component, the importance of having that trans European approach, and then not forgetting the research and development and innovation of one hand but also digital literacy, digital skills on the other which is, you know, from an MEPs from Member of Parliament's point of view is very interesting because you see all the member states, their submissions going through but the importance of that and access to markets so thank you very much for that. And I think it comes in nicely to your contribution card from the perspective of companies and enterprise Ireland. Thank you very much, Carl. Thank you, Joyce chair at the IAA. And I have to say listening to my co panelists, we're probably in violent agreement across a number of areas on this front. This is an opportunity Joyce mentioned for questions at the outset, and I've put together probably a little bit of a statement. And I might drop a level into it in terms of opportunities and also challenges that are ahead, and particularly from an Irish context I suppose, in that regard. I might just go through that so Carl Gibbons I'm the divisional manager for technology and international trade services for enterprise Ireland, who are government agency responsible for working with Irish industry that is looking at export markets. So I look at digital innovation, and I would say that advances in digital technologies and the shift to digital adoption were accelerated by covert 19 in shaping businesses and revolutionizing business operation. So digital innovation is driven by technology such as cloud computing advanced sensors, advanced automated on autonomous systems and robotics. They're key underpinning enablers for transformational change. So, in terms of the Irish context and Irish manufacturing in particular, and services companies in both traditional and new sectors need to have digital capability embedded into their strategies to succeed in global markets. So that companies that adopt digital will grow faster with the ability to use data to inform decision making and drive scaling opportunities. This is critical. Successful implementation of digital across all aspects of business operations present these opportunities, gaining competitive advantage and customer experience internal operations, but also employee experience, and this leads to business model innovation. This will support productivity growth and innovation in goods and services across the value chain. And this is not only for Irish industry. This is across SME industry across Europe. But despite the opportunities companies of all sizes face challenges and Hannah mentioned some of these challenges in her piece in implementing and developing change and digital transformation. So the availability of in house digital skills, the understanding their level of digital readiness. No digital adoption strategy to guide the implementation of a digital plan across all aspects of the business. There are costs. We mentioned investment earlier costs in terms of investment and research and development and innovation training and expertise. And also importantly, as companies move along that digital adoption to digital transformation, it's interoperability within their existing systems. So the Irish government is committed along with the European counterparts to supporting businesses on their digital transformation journey. The recently published economic recovery plan seeks to kickstart a jobs led recovery and propel economy the economy forward to more sustainable digital and secure future digital adoption. This from an Irish context will be driven by the forthcoming national AI strategy and digital initiatives such as a program to drive digital transformation of enterprises. It'll be key. In Enterprise Ireland. We are committed to supporting Irish businesses to harness digital technologies to transform transform their business operations and succeed in international markets. So just to go through a little bit to support the companies on their digital journey. Enterprise Ireland provides financial and non financial supports, we've been innovation offered to assist companies plan out their innovation and the digital transformation. We funding supports for research and development, including collaboration with the higher education and research performing organizations. And this is akin across Europe in terms of that collaboration third level sector piece. Funding for business innovation by implementation of new and innovative production delivery and organizational methods. And what does this really mean it comes down to being able to look at capital equipment, but it's the people piece and the people piece and digital transformation is absolutely critical. It's about that capability building through training leadership and innovation. The transformation will be led by companies, the presence of enabling conditions. And I spoke about this and henna spoke about this that facilitate the development of new technologies, as well as diffusion and absorption will play a key role in digital transformation journey across Europe. In Enterprise Ireland, we're playing our part. And despite the covert impact of 2019. We invested in 125 new potential startup companies in the area of digital such as cybersecurity and others. We have a technology center program. And over the last number of years, we've been embedding supports for industry led technology centers such as Cedar Ireland's National Center for Applied AI and data analytics. And this center is driving research development and the deployment of AI and data analytics technology and innovation supports to business. In addition, over the years we've built up the Irish manufacturing research center, again delivering solutions to the manufacturing ecosystem throughout Ireland, delivering business solutions in areas such as automation and robotics. The Digital Disruptive Technology Fund, an initiative of the Department of Enterprise Trade and Employment alongside Enterprise Ireland, a 500 million fund is driving collaboration between Ireland's work class research base and industry, as well as facilitating enterprises to compete directly for funding supports for the development and the deployment of innovative technologies on a commercial basis. In this fund, digital projects are being supported and particularly looking at data analytics into AI machine learning, etc. Under Horizon Europe, Enterprise Ireland is supporting companies and researchers from across the higher education sector, and across Europe funding schemes to support that development that collaboration, which is critically important to underpin that digital transformation. So, in summation, digital transformation is a key challenge, not only for Irish Enterprise today but across the SME across Europe. But despite this, and I know firsthand from working with Irish enterprises that prove many times before in every corner of the world or flexibility, their innovative capability and resilience. The message that we would give to companies in respect of digital transformation is take action now, get informed, get the supports and take decisions, both in your immediate and also in your longer term to maximize your opportunities and manage those challenges that are presented. And we, as a government agency, are committed and supporting companies along this journey by driving that innovation, that competitiveness and that internationalization. Thank you, Joyce. Thank you very much, Carla. And I think you outlined very clearly the support that's around, but there's a clear call I think from what you're saying to take action now, get support and work on the ideas. And as you said at the beginning, there is a commonality of thought and understanding through all your speakers from different perspectives, which I think is interesting. And I'd like to go to the questions but before I do that, all of you have mentioned in one way or another. The whole issue of, you know, whether you call it citizens digital literacy, upgrading skills and capabilities within organizations. And how do you think we can go about really addressing that issue effectively. Kuna, would you like to start with that? Yeah, no problem. And, well, I suppose I've some insight into this in terms of true technology Ireland, we actually have two technology Ireland skill net. So, I suppose very much that that kind of upskilling at a kind of a company and worker level, and we're seeing great results there across multiple sectors, not just within the tech sector, but many other sectors as well. And we've also recently written the submission to the Department of Education who opened their new digital strategy for schools consultation. So, and we've worked alongside all our industry members to kind of get really the viewpoints of members and kind of feedback back into the department. And actually, interestingly, you know, there was nothing too groundbreaking. I mean, it's just put the resources in place for teachers, I think, having all of us gone through home home schooling, I think we can all say it's not the route we ever want to go. Only in cases of emergency. But I think what has happened in the last 18 months is, you know, we've learned a lot and I know, speaking with teachers and principals, you know, there has been a lot of learnings and that we really feel we're at a crossroads now. And this is really the opportunity and I think all of society in some way we're at the crossroads now we're hopefully touch wood we're coming out of COVID. A lot of people have upscale digitally. You know, I know from personal experience of setting my mother up on zoom and downloading podcasts and all these things that she had no interest in before, but became very important for her to be able to continue to live her life. So I think there has been a, you know, somewhat of societal upskilling during COVID and obviously with schools and that really we're at a crossroads now, and I suppose it's up to us in order to move on and take the best of what we've learned to bring that to the next level. And so I think, you know, you know, organizations such as skill nets who can offer you know really either free or subsidized training is really important at the kind of worker economic level, but also at the schools levels of the appropriate supports and that comes down to from about a hardware but also, you know, I am IT support, everything else, you know, teachers have a lot to do and I really, really emphasize they can't be expected to, you know, give it support to 30 pupils in their classroom that's just not possible. And so I think, you know, appropriate resources like that are really important. Can I just before I go to Hannah and car just keep up on that because everybody talks about the schools, but I wonder would you think this is assuming you'd go to primary level, but also maybe to look at that support support but actually training and some of the interventions for parents and teachers around their children, because I think that the children will react very quickly as we know, but it's to give the support kind of reflecting the digital divide and the research that's come out recently. Is that so we have to maybe see are delivering some of those programs slightly differently. I mean, we're involved with a group with the department that has, you know, the National Council of Parents groups, but at the primary and secondary level and they've definitely communicated that back that, you know, clear communication with parents, you know, clear guidance in terms of how to use the technology but also what it's appropriate for not appropriate for and really getting the parents on board is a huge part of that journey. We've all learned laughter and COVID, but I think that we've also learned things that did work well and didn't work well so I think to build upon that will be useful. Thanks. Hannah, from your perspective as a legislature, how do you see us penetrating into citizen level literacy as well as work and Carl may look at that as a particular case. Yeah, we have very big differences between the member states if states if we look the digital skills of the citizens, but if you look the whole European picture we can see that one dirt of European employers lack necessary digital skills and 70% of companies in Europe they think that that is a problem for investments in Europe that the workforce doesn't have those digital skills which are needed in everyday working life. So I think we have very big challenges because in same time, think everybody should have basic digital skills and of course we have to start from the schools but also lifelong learning and possibilities to update skills is needed. I think nearly in all the member states there is a lot to do for the possibilities how the people who are already in the working life, how they can update their skills, how we can make sure that they have life learning possibilities. And in the same time when everybody needs basic digital skills we also have to educate people who are experts in ICT and who are professionals in cybersecurity or AI or very important fields which are coming up. So I think have to work in all the levels of course education is very much on the competence of member states but here I think it's important to learn from each other. And like it was already mentioned for example in the schools it's crucial that the teachers they have the skills because otherwise they are not so willing to to use these tools also to teach the kids so there's a lot of work but I think very important that we are investing in digital skills. In Finland from where I'm coming our citizens if we are comparing in the European level they have very good digital skills and the secret behind that is that the banking sector in Finland has teach to people to use the internet because in 1990s we had very big banking crisis in Finland and then the banks they were digitalizing their services very very fast in 1990s and everybody have to learn how to use their bank accounts via internet and that's why everybody knows now how to use internet. Thanks for the banks. Yes. Yes we'll have to remember that and thanks very much for that. Those observations Karl, you're you probably focus mainly on business do you see that has been a really big issue. So, and the, I suppose if I take this from the point of view of when you look at it at digital, and you look at that digital adoption and digital transformation. And what does that mean from a business perspective. I think with all of this you start right at the top you start at CEO level, and you look at the awareness building that needs to be undertaken and I mentioned in my statement there it is about people. It's about people first it's about process, and it's absolutely about technology being the last because that's the piece that has to be adopted and implemented. And we look at digital. It is actually looking at a digital mindset and looking at digital first how can I change. How can I become more efficient. How can I look at my internal process within my company for my product or my service. And actually what is that digital first piece need to look like. And then if you look outside in terms of your customer requirements. How do I translate my customer requirements back into that digital be more efficient, increase productivity piece. So that whole digital mindset is critically critically important. If I take a second look then and I said and we were talking there about digital skills, and we have seen huge progress with respect to industry coming together, small, medium, large industry coming together to to look at solutions themselves in terms of training needs and training requirements, particularly across the ICT skills base and across Europe it's the same conversations. And there are times when industry comes together to be able to try and solve some of those solutions themselves. It's really really really important and that training and that upskilling and effectively lifelong learning for employees is is particularly important. Thanks very much Carl. There was one question I want to ask you about, you know, public policy and regulating new emerging technologies. How can the right balance be found between regulating to protect the public interest and ensuring innovation is not hindered. And what principles should guide policymakers in this. Hannah we might start with you on that. Yeah, thank you I think this is very important question what and we are discussing about it every day I think in the European Parliament because we have now we have very much digital legislation coming up and ongoing here in the different committees and I think it's very problematic if we start to regulate the technology, because then it's always up to it that how we are defining the technology like now when we are speaking about AI and the what kind of rules and ethics we should use in AI and when we are defining what is AI and what kinds of rules there should be then what is outside of this definition do we have different rules there then so I think this is very very problematic and we have to really find the right balance here because I think the main principle should be that we should have the same same rules in online world and offline world and we shouldn't have different rules for different technologies when we speak about ethics for example, so that's where we are now working in the European Parliament all the time. Yes, it's very challenging because like I said the technology is developing so so fast and we don't really see that what will come next and that's why we should be always very technology neutral when we are setting the rules rules. Yeah, thank you very much for that Carl would you like to come in on that. Do you see that balance in your day to day does it come up as a practical issue. I believe it does and I think, just as Hannah mentioned there, the piece for us in terms of that regulation piece is looking at the emerging technology base. So if you look at maybe artificial intelligence in particular, the ethics around artificial intelligence to ensure that there's no bias creep within that area is really really important. And anything that can help companies in particular, understand that I think all the better. And that allows them for further development and open innovation. Thanks very much Carla Nunez would you like to add to that. Yeah, absolutely I mean I think agree with everything that's been said already I suppose our view is both very much from the digital your point of view is that you know regulations aren't a bad thing. There's a risk based approach taken. And as you said that the doesn't overly hinder innovation. And I think, you know, having having multi stakeholder collaboration around the development of frameworks is really important. And I suppose again when when you talk about right regulations and regulators, you know, there has to be resources in place because I think what we can see and we've seen examples is when you have regulations and regulators. The regulators need to be resourced to actually do their do their job and actually not provide roadblocks and to companies in terms of how they develop. And so I think that's something that we've definitely seen it from a from a large perspective that you know really work collaboratively in terms of the development of regulations and you know as much as possible take that high level approach so that it doesn't have for innovation. And again when you're going to introduce the regulator and that the regulator is appropriately staffed and that is probably funded and appropriate level of expertise within the regulator as well. Thanks very much I don't know if you saw this morning I just heard it report by William Fry which is from inspectors or investors point of view and their report indicates now that investors priorities have changed since their last completed their survey in 2016 and they found that having a regulatory regime is the most important driver of business for seeking to make data related investments. And when they were asked about this, I thought was interesting. They said they wanted a framework as you said and they wanted stability. So it's interesting, you know, taxes number eight now a regulatory framework is number one. So it's interesting how things develop but it has to be clear and and as you say, appropriate to the function. And we've a question in here from Jerry Byrne from Professor Jerry Byrne from UCD, and he's asking a different question does the panel have an opinion on the fitness for purpose of existing models of innovation for the tech sector in the context of the European digital decade. Is that clear. And is that within that document or under the European. Hannah, would you like to answer that. So what is that looking at the purpose of existing models of innovation for the tech sector, sector, what's the fitness of purpose, are they fit for purpose in the context of the European digital decade. We are doing a thing as decision makers, I think we should create that kind of playing field that encourages private investors to innovate and invest in Europe so I think it's very important that we are, we are trying to create the level playing field for competition and like, like moderator already said that the company is also very much looking at that we should have a long time certainty for the investments, and they shouldn't have that kind of risks for example when they are investing to new technologies already for example AI was mentioned here, or then we have for example blockchain technologies and that kind of new new ideas coming up so I think the legal certainty long term perspective is really needed. And also that kind of technology neutrality. And of course we have to take care in the European level that we have for the companies we have access to finance access to markets, and also access to talented people, but then anyway I think it's companies and industry and researchers, they are deciding that to where they should invest in and where is the future of our digital decade so I think we as politicians, we shouldn't win the losers or winners, we should give the opportunities. Yeah, and create the, if you like the environment for that development, rather than being too specific. And there was another question there, because you raised it just briefly, Hannah, when it comes to new and emerging innovative technologies, what can be done to encourage uptake and reduce barriers you mentioned blockchain, but also cloud computing, even you know, content computer how do we start getting people both to know about them and be aware of their impact and how they perhaps work in a kind of technological stack that they're not all separate, you know they are in some ways linked together. I think the first thing we should do in Europe is that we should invest more the research and development, because we know that all the member states, they should invest 3% of GDP to research and development but we are lacking behind. We know that USA and Japan and Korea and now even China is investing much bigger part of their GDP to new innovations to science and research so I think this is the key for our future we should have investments there because otherwise our industry won't be competitive in the future. And we can't also tackle all the global challenges we are facing if we are not investing to science and research and innovation so this is my main worry. And of course then, after that, we have to also take care that our industry research and researchers and public sector that they are working together. And here I think our ecosystems in digitalization, they are very important, and big part of this important work is done in the regional level in the cities where the industry research or public sector citizens they are working together. And I think the innovations are very much created there in the cities and in the regions. And then a collaborative faction between industry, or you know the university's research and development and business obviously. Carl, would you like to add to that and then on. Yeah, just to suppose the collaboration is hugely important and I mentioned some of the technology centers, which are and would resonate with our European colleagues. And I suppose to really keep an eye on in terms of innovation for small to medium enterprises is that the day to day becomes incredibly busy, and particularly the impact that we've seen in covert, and also in terms of the markets. And then as the markets open up, and companies become busy and challenged again is that that innovation step that they may have taken before doesn't get lost or forgotten, or put on pause. And what we've seen through enterprise Ireland, particularly during say 2008 2009 timeframe, those companies that innovated during that time period actually reap the benefits. So, for me, it really is looking at those companies to make sure that there is a program of work and it's the same in terms of digitalization. What's the strategy, what's the plan, and short, medium and long term projections in terms of that, and staying the course is really, really important. And the third level sector and the research performing organizations have a critical role to play in that as well, in terms of assistance and in terms of skill set to be able to bring on board as well. And, and also practical steps of even introducing companies to each other. And somebody might be, you know, not necessarily in your sector, but it could be a few steps ahead of you in terms of how did I do this. How did I put a team together how did I approach innovation. And that worked for me, both in terms of that innovative approach on the digital side, what, what was put in place within my company that actually has worked how did I bring my workforce on that journey with me in terms of that digital adoption and transformation. Now, can I just ask you on that, how do you facilitate that, in a sense peer to peer or you know industry industry, really honest dialogue, you know the people want to tell you, you know, this was difficult this was challenging this is how we did how can you encourage that in a very practical way that more people will do that. I think that resonate with a lot of people. So a lot of the work that we do as an agency is that one to one and one to money in terms of group sessions with companies. But it is that feedback, and it is about actually looking at research and innovation looking at digitalization and stepping it out in terms of small bites, and also in terms of consultive approaches for companies. And putting together digital hubs, for example, across Europe. And it is about actually hand holding a lot of cases companies who know they need to change. Don't perhaps have the technical skills in how to do it, but that they can go to a hub but technology center to get that advice and to talk to some experts that are there to to assist them. Yes, Anna, wearing your, your two hats. How do you think this can be achieved. And well I suppose from a digital your perspective in terms of how to achieve kind of digital innovation from it from a European standpoint. So the network works very closely alongside all the EU institution and the national government as well as the trade associations and I suppose digital Europe themselves have published their own kind of investment plan and to really kind of drive policy makers to the key investment areas with measurable KPIs and ideas for cross border projects because I suppose, you know, everyone is extremely busy we've just hopefully come through mostly a pandemic, and I suppose as an association to Europe is really trying to go to policy makers with solutions, and not just problems and really kind of have researched in depth so I've, you know, gone out to a lot of tech scale ups, you know, really some of the smallest companies out there for their views on investment priorities and structural reforms that are either roadblocks to them or innovation or developing. And then I suppose from a digital Europe perspective really closely following what the national plans are communicating the analysis back to the perm reps, and really kind of making sure that the commission is informed and feeding the view into the strategic outlook and the implementation then of the horizon Europe and digital Europe programs. And so it's really that kind of the full circle of getting all the views from the members putting forward plans, and also then feeding back into the commission how things are progressing that's really the role of digital Europe in terms of the, the achievement of digital innovation across Europe. That link with companies but also with policy makers as you say solution focus rather than problem centered. Well, that's probably a good note and unfortunately we've lots of other questions but time has caught up with us. But I think it was very informed and learned a lot today in a sense about really what I think you'd call the digital mindset what's involved in this transformation. And, you know, Cecilia and yourself said this think big take you think European and think global. How important is that but within that, then being accountable being transparent, and also looking at what Hannah and Karl have talked about the importance of that. The, the stakeholders in this, the importance of collaboration between stakeholders between industry and between policy makers, and the important role that MEP plays henna in setting that agenda and understanding what it is. Fundamentally, I suppose what we've come to here today to really has come out very clearly that it's not really about the technology it's about the people. It's about how you involve people how you look at their values. Interestingly enough, you know, I was thinking, you know, they were talking about the leaving certain CAO this morning earlier. And it's just saying that one of these days one of the key issues that everybody's going to take our ethics philosophy and ethics, because that's what the discussion is coming about. How do we want to live our society, having clear strategy, and what you call for Karl about taking action getting support and getting ideas, but it's done within that context of values and people and working from, you know, the citizens right through all the different stakeholders. So thank you very much to all of you you raised. Una and Karl, thank you so much for raising these issues. And I'd like on your behalf to thank our audience for the questions and for their participation. Thank you very much. And we look forward to seeing you at our next event which will be on the 26th of July. But I'd also like to thank on your behalf, Lorcan Malali and the production team and the IAEA and Seamus Allen who's our digital policy research for all the work that is undertaken to get this event up and running. So thank you all very much. And we'll see you soon again.