 The next item of business is a debate on motion 7078, in the name of Martin Whitfield, on behalf of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee on Standing Orders temporary rule change proxy voting pilot. I would invite those members who are wishing to speak in the debate to please press the request to speak buttons. I call on Martin Whitfield to speak to and to move the motion on behalf of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee up to five minutes, please, Mr Whitfield. I'm very grateful, Deputy Presiding Officer, and it is a pleasure to open this debate, even if it has one of the longest titles that the chamber has been confronted with. I would like to go back to what the founding principles of this Parliament are, that's to be open, to be accountable, the sharing of power and equal opportunity. It is worth considering the foundations of this Parliament as we go forward to design the Parliament of the future and not to become a Parliament that is stuck in the past, but to revisit the past, and in particular 1999, when Susan Stewart recalled in Lord's estate and Lusty Banquetting, a lot of the MSPs, when they were taking their oaths, had their children in the gallery, it had a less formal feel to it than the Parliament we were all used to, Westminster, and right from the started signalled that this is a family-friendly Parliament, it is going to be a Parliament that represents all Scotland, all both men and women. But despite this hope to be family-friendly Parliament, before the last election, there were four female MSPs who cited family as their reason for not seeking re-election this year, and it is on this foundation that the committee looked to see what changes could be made, and it is a pillar of this Parliament that we are family-friendly, it is an important one because it speaks to those principles that I mentioned, but currently our standing orders do not provide for proxy voting, that is one vote cast by one MSP on behalf of another MSP. The committee's inquiry report on future parliamentary procedure and practices included the recommendation that a proxy vote pilot should take place. The evidence indicated that there were certain circumstances in which MSPs, indeed like the rest of the population, have periods of time in their life when illness, bereavement or parental responsibilities mean that they cannot vote in person or indeed use the remote voting platform, and they are unable to attend the Parliament. I thank the three categories that are reported in the committee's work that I very much agree with. However, if people know that there is an organisation called the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, there are also some other international events that parliamentarians can attend. Is that something that was given consideration to the committee's work? I am very grateful to Stuart McMillan's intervention, and it is right that for this short-term investigation we have limited the areas where we think proxy votes should be used, but that does not mean that this Parliament cannot look at other areas going forward. Indeed, if parliamentarians and chamber colleagues have responsibilities that take them away to other countries, for example the Commonwealth Parliament, as has just been mentioned, we can look at that. Although this is a temporary measure, we will be observing how it takes place over the year, and indeed it would be helpful for the committee to be informed on the situation of using a proxy vote that was not available to a member so that we can take that into account as well. I am grateful for that. What lies behind motion today? The committee published a relatively short report, which came about on the basis of consultation with members, with the Presiding Officer and with the Parliamentary Bureau on key elements of what the proxy voting scheme for the chamber should look like. It is important to say that this just extends to the chamber. It will not be available to the committees for which there is a separate substitute provision made. The proposed pilot is a means of complementing the existing remote voting platform and the informal pairing arrangements that are in place between some members. It provides an institutional provision that will allow members an additional route in certain circumstances to vote. The committee is very mindful of one person holding significant numbers of proxy votes for others, both of their party or indeed across the chamber. So our recommendation is that a single member should hold no more than two proxy votes, because the holding of such votes and the granting of such votes is based on trust between those two members, and that is best dealt with between people who trust each other. It may indeed be someone from another political party, but it is on the basis of trust that the proxy will be given. The committee has made a number of recommendations for the voting scheme, and I would draw attention just to two in particular. The first is that the proxy vote will have the same status as a vote cast by a member in person for the prevention of doubt. Secondly, the proxy vote will be recorded in the minutes of that meeting so that that pillar of transparency can be addressed. There is a crucial relationship between MSPs in this Parliament and between MSPs and their constituents. It speaks volumes to the trust that the constituents place in us when they cast their vote to send us here. It is that same basis that should exist when a member, in certain circumstances, trusts another to cast their vote, and respect between those two members must be held. We have invited the Presiding Officer not to adjudicate on proxy voting but to administer the scheme. With the Presiding Officer's consent, she is willing to do that. On that basis, I would move the motion in my name on behalf of the committee and invite members of this chamber to endorse this temporary change so that we can see whether proxy voting is right for this chamber and for this Parliament going forward. I am grateful. As always, I welcome the opportunity to participate in this debate on behalf of the Scottish Government. The Parliament debated the committee's report on 20 September on its inquiry into virtual hybrid working. There was a clear and broad consensus around the need for its working practices to retain the flexibility offered by new ways of working. The Scottish Parliament has adapted, over time, not only because of the need to react to the pandemic but in light of practical experience and Scotland's ever-evolving constitutional journey. The committee identified the establishment of a proxy voting scheme as a necessary and prudent reform. I would reiterate that it is for the Parliament to consider any proposals in relation to its operation, including any changes to its voting arrangements. Colleagues may recall that I noted that the merits of a proxy voting scheme as outlined in the committee's report were clear. That view was widely shared and, as evidenced by those who had contributed to the committee's inquiry, the committee also recognised the need to ensure that any such arrangements are robust and fit for purpose and would engage further with the bureau and others to refine the detail of the model scheme. As a member of the bureau, along with other business managers, I had the opportunity to consider the correspondence from the committee seeking further input on the practical implications of proxy voting and how any issues could be addressed. I found those exchanges on the technical and procedural aspects of the arrangement both helpful and productive. The Scottish Government welcomes the committee's position that decisions around agreeing a member's request for a proxy vote should rest with the Presiding Officer. That ensures the integrity of the scheme and that such requests are monitored and considered on a consistent basis. It is my belief that this is an extremely important as we move forward with this pilot. It is especially important in terms of success of the pilot scheme in handling requests for proxies sought in relation to illness. That aspect of the scheme clearly adds a further dynamic to the implementation in relation to evaluating fairness. The Government would also like to highlight the issues of ensuring that those nominated to exercise a proxy vote do so in a manner consistent with the wishes of the absentee. In other words, that they vote the right way for the individual that asks for it. It is important to mention the committee's finding that the Parliament was able to fulfil its scrutiny function despite recent events. That was welcomed by the Scottish Government. Members who are also ministers should of course be treated equally when it comes to requests for proxy votes. To be clear, Presiding Officer, that would not detract from the Government's commitment to ensuring that ministers are made available in order to be held to account. Presiding Officer, I do not intend to take up too much more of your time. The Scottish Government once again commends the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee for its work in this matter and will closely follow the operation and experience of any pilot scheme. The Parliament prides itself on being flexible and an open institution, which accommodates as many different backgrounds and lifestyles as possible. That has been particularly clear since the pandemic, when remote participation from the parliamentary business came to place. Of course, the introduction of virtual proceedings has not been without its problems, but it is no doubt that it has helped the Parliament to evolve. Given that, it is right that we consider how further improvements to parliamentary business could be made. I welcome today's debate on the proposed pilot for a proxy voting system. We know that virtual participation has been made possible by members voting remotely, but there are also times when it is neither practical nor reasonable to expect members to participate in this way. A proxy voting system would help to address many of those circumstances. Although the informal pairing arrangements have been existed and they have worked reasonably well, there is also the opportunity to ensure that individuals who want to make sure that their vote is dealt with at the decision time get the chance and that the proxy vote would allow that to take place. I, as a member of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee, am happy that the report outlines the effective way that a pilot could be installed. One important aspect of the pilot would be the circumstances in which the proxy vote would be granted, and those circumstances have been outlined for illness, bereavement and parental leave. They might not be the most effective, but they will also be a judgment on what can be achieved, and there will be a starting point from where we are with the scheme. The report is also right to emphasise the importance that the Presiding Officer, having the final say over when proxy votes are granted and the ensuring that it will not be a large number of votes controlled by a small number of people. That is vitally important, Presiding Officer. There are various circumstances and situations that we have seen in the past, and there are some examples of stage 3 debates that involve votes on a large number of different things. Several possible solutions have been proposed, and I know that the trial and error throughout the pilot scheme will help to determine the system that we adopt going forward. Many members are aware, for example, where such a proxy vote system would be beneficial to individuals in the past, and my colleague Edward Mountain MSP has very much been involved in the process. For a significant time, he was unable to be here due to ill health, and he spoke about the current system that made him feel that his vote did not count. As such, I have no doubt that the introduction of a proxy voting system will support MSPs effectively to ensure that it is done with accordance to ensure that they are the individual who has the right, and they are the individual who will select the person to propose their proxy and do the proxy for them. That would have been of great support to someone like Edward Mountain, and I, like him, want to see the process go forward as soon as possible. The introduction of proxy voting could be another important step forward in making this Parliament the place that is truly accommodating to different needs, backgrounds and circumstances. In conclusion, the success of the pilot scheme will depend on clear communication between members and the designated proxy. It is important that the whole Parliament is clear about the role, the process and what will take place during the pilot. However, I am very confident that the working together, which we have seen many times before in this Parliament, will be the way forward, and we will arrive at a system that truly, for the better, works for our democracy within the establishment. I join other members in commending the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee for their work into this issue, and I am pleased to support this measure on behalf of Scottish Labour. I believe that this is a victory for common sense. All members elected to this Parliament should have the opportunity to have a say on legislation or other parliamentary debates, which impact on their constituents. Illness, bereavement and parental leave should not be an obstacle to this. If we recall the circus that surrounded the Westminster votes on the knife-edge Brexit deal, where MPs were wheeled into the lobbies and wheelchairs and expectant mothers voted when past their due date, those are not the images of a modern democracy and shamed politics. It was frankly embarrassing at a time when faith in our political process by the public was already wearing thin. We, in the Scottish Parliament, have always prided at ourselves. I thank Neil Bibby for taking that brief intervention, and just to make him aware, obviously when that clearly wasn't the first time that that type of activity took place in Westminster, the last time that I certainly remembered it happened, was when there was a potential reform of the House of Lords. Neil Bibby. I thank Mr McMillan for that intervention. He is right that it has happened over a number of years, and frankly it is a situation that we should not be able to come to pass. We, in the Scottish Parliament, have always prided ourselves as being a different kind of Parliament, one less bound by ancient traditions, and open to a more family-friendly outlook to its members, but our actions have not always met this rhetoric. Today the committee has put forward a fair proposal to allow colleagues in those circumstances to represent the electorate and allow all of Parliament to have its say on the matters of the day. It is up to us now to make a success of this trial and build confidence in those processes. The pandemic was a dark chapter in this country's history, and the consequences are still being felt today. One of the silver linings, though, was forcing us all to rethink working practices so that we could function during the necessary lockdown periods and embrace technology where possible to make us more efficient. It meant changes to the way we operate as Parliament, which has been seen as theoretical or experimental, become the norm as we were forced to make them work. Today is a welcome update to this, and I am confident that this proposed trial will be a success. As a Parliament, we should not fear change and be open to better ways of working, particularly as the world around us is rapidly evolving and opening up opportunities to work smarter. My only regret is that this has come too late for many colleagues who, in the past, have been unable to balance family life with their responsibilities as a parliamentarian. As a father myself, I know the daily juggling act and how difficult it can be for new parents to keep all the balls in the air. I consider myself very fortunate that I can make all that work. However, we all know colleagues who, for different reasons, whether it be geography or a lack of support network, simply could not maintain that, and our politics is all the poorer for it. We all want to see the brightest and the best attracted to public service, and this is a small but progressive step, removing a potential barrier to elected office for good people in the future. With this welcome reform, there is also a responsibility for elected members to use this allowance wisely, as Alexander Stewart has said. It is right that proxy voting is enabled on the basis of trust with appropriate privacy safeguards in place. However, our constituents also expect us to be in Parliament when possible, representing them in person when we can. I agree that it is a privilege that proxy voting should be used judiciously, and we should be mindful of our responsibilities in order to preserve those accommodations. After all, being a politician is a very fortunate position, and we must always remember that plenty of other workers are not afforded anywhere near the level of flexibility that we enjoy. In any case, this is a positive step for the Parliament, and I look forward to working with colleagues to ensure that this trial is a success. Thank you, Mr Bibby. I now call Julian Mackay, who is joining us remotely up to four minutes. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I would like to thank the members of the SPPA committee for their work on the proxy voting scheme over the past few months. Following the steps forward during the pandemic and the potential issues that could arise from the current pairing system, I am pleased that we are now at this point. As a member of the Bureau, it is something that we have discussed on a number of occasions, and proxy voting will allow individual members the ability to exercise their vote in matters important to them when they cannot otherwise participate. With the ability to participate online, as I am today, there is less likelihood than in previous sessions for this mechanism to be used, but I do believe that it is still an important part of voting in the chamber. I am pleased that the pilot will cover illness, parental leave and bereavement, but I would ask that, after the pilot has concluded that caring responsibilities should also be considered for inclusion in the scope of reasons for a proxy vote. We should be aware that, for some caring, there will be more than parental responsibilities and that, for future sessions, an admission of caring responsibilities in any full scheme could put someone off putting themselves forward for election if there is a perceived lack of flexibility. I agree with others that, Presiding Officer, administering this scheme is the correct, appropriate and fair route. I am sure that many members across the Parliament appreciate the focus throughout the report on confidentiality. This is in no way to avoid scrutiny or to duck questions on why we may or may not be present, but questions like this measure will prevent the possibility of any member's medical condition or family situation ending up being made public against the member's wishes. As with any new system, the proof will be in the implementation and any issues will need to be considered as part of the evaluation of the pilot. I note that there are no recommendations in the report with regard to corrections should a member who is exercising a proxy incorrectly by accident exercise that vote in the wrong way. I would be keen to understand from either the convener or any other committee member whether that was discussed. Obviously, a vote cannot be changed once it is cast. Ms Mackay, I am getting a request for an intervention from Martin Whitfield. Would you wish to accept that intervention? You would. Absolutely. I am very grateful that the member gave way. On that particular point, we would sit during the trial period under the same restrictions that apply for voting in chamber now, so that, if the vote was incorrectly cast or not counted, it could appear in the record but would not affect the numbers and the calculation of how the vote went. I hope that that helps. I thank the member for that intervention. It is a very helpful clarification. I would also be interested to hear of any timescales involved for notifying the Presiding Officer of any need for a proxy. Obviously, bereavements and caring responsibilities or parental responsibilities can happen suddenly and are out with the control of the member. I would hope that that could be responsive and adaptable to any needs, obviously respecting the need to give clerks time to get a proxy in place. In paragraph 36 of the report, I welcome the flexibility around allowing members to participate in chamber business for a period of time where the proxy is in place. For those who have been off with an illness, something akin to a phased return and participating in some but not all business, I believe, would be beneficial to those who have had a long-term illness. In closing, I welcome the report and a piloting of the proxy voting system and look forward to any outcomes from it and thank the SPPA committee for their work. I now call on Bob Dorris to wind up the debate on behalf of the standards procedures and public appointments committee. Up to four minutes, please, Mr Dorris. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. It is important that brief debate has been part of a far wider consultative process. Our committee wishes to thank members who attended focus groups, completed surveys or participated in two parliamentary debates in this place. All designed to tease out how Scotland's Parliament may reform, enhance and modernise itself. This temporary rule change takes forward a key recommendation in our inquiry into future parliamentary procedures and practice published in July this year. Our committee has sought to listen and reflect the emerging broad consensus within the Parliament for those reforms. I believe that our proposals for a temporary rule change permit a year-long pilot for proxy voting fits in well with that consensus. It is our hope that the proxy voting pilot will contribute to making our Parliament both more flexible in our working practices in order to support parliamentarians to fulfil their democratic duties and also to send a clear message to those who may consider stepping forward for elective office in the future that Scotland's Parliament will do what it can to support them and their life circumstances. Ill health, parental circumstances and bereavement are, quite frankly, everyday realities for the people we all represent. There are also everyday realities for members in this place. Those temporary rule changes feel like a measured and reasonable adjustment. History may very well show that this is something that could have been rolled out some time ago. Indeed, had these adjustments been in place, as we have heard, along with important innovations developed at pace through necessity around the hybrid Parliament with remote voting, we may even have retained some now-departed MSPs. That is our loss, Presiding Officer. I like to focus on two aspects of the rule changes. One is in relation to parental circumstances and parental leave. That is taking it to its widest criteria. We talk about parents, adoptive parents, foster parents and kinship parents. All modern parenting relationships need to be reflected in these rule changes. Also, as we heard earlier, that someone who is using proxy voting is gone but not forgotten. They may still, from time to time, wish to participate in the life of this Parliament. Maybe it is a fluctuating health condition, maybe it is a particular issue that they are interested in. I think that Mr Mountain would say something about that, as we will have to be here this afternoon. It is important to know that that person can temporarily withdraw that proxy vote to allow him to participate in the life of this chamber and Parliament without interviewing that long-term request for proxy voting. However, of course, the pilot must be evaluated. The SPPA committee intends to do so towards the end of next year, with a view to deciding whether to recommend a permanent rule change. It is also worth noting, Presiding Officer, that the first time that the temporary rule provision introduced at the end of the last session has been used to pilot such a procedural change. The contributions today will help in the preparation of the proxy voting scheme. Although the committee has made recommendations, there will be further detail in the scheme about how a proxy vote can be arranged and cast. That will be in place before the temporary rule change comes into effect if the Parliament supports the motion today. Of course, as previously indicated, the motion today is also crucial about being a modern and flexible Parliament that ensures that all those who stay in Scotland can step forward and play a full part in Scotland's national Parliament. Getting our Parliament right for the future is an important responsibility for MSPs. I thank colleagues in their support in fulfilling that important endeavour this afternoon.