 any of you, I hope, will take part. We're gonna open it up to the floor as soon as possible. So welcome, it's good to have you. My name is Mike Taylor. I'm the director of the International Land Coalition Secretariat, which is hosted by EFADS in Rome. And I'll introduce the panelists to you in a minute. But just a few words before we introduce the panelists and hear from them about what brings us together. Now I'm sure all of you, like me, have spent many, many hours in webinars over the last months on COVID-19. COVID-19 has turned our world upside down and for all of us who work in this sector, it's been a huge, huge changer of how we work and not just how we work, but how we see our work and how we see the future of the issues that we work on. So I think that's one reason why we have nearly 120 people, why we have such a lot of interest in this topic. And we've got a lot of excellent experience that we're gonna hear experiences about what's not working, also what's working and how we can work better. So we're gonna hear two sides of it. We're gonna hear the impact. I mean, in terms of impact, you probably know from the latest Sophie report that just came out from FAO that 690 million people on this planet are undernourished. That's nearly one in 10 people, nearly one in 10 people do not have the food that they need to survive. And what we've been told is COVID is probably gonna increase that number by some of between 83 and 132 million people. So we have a very immediate impact. And that's only this year. We don't know what's held in store for 2021, 2022, 2023 and beyond, but commentators are telling us that there are very significant medium to long-term impacts as well. So I think many of us who are part of this session, many of you listening in somewhere and other work on land rights, we know land rights is a very wide and a very cross-cutting issue. You may work on land rights because it's important for food security. You may work on land rights because it's important for dealing with the climate crisis, for dealing with the environmental crisis. You may work on land rights because it contributes to justice and equality. You may work on land rights for greater economic inclusion and more equal opportunity. So there are many, many angles that we're coming from and we're gonna hear from many different perspectives. But as we go into this discussion, we're gonna look at it in two parts, in these different sectors in which we work. We're gonna hear from the panelists what are the impacts they're feeling as they're confronted with COVID-19, the pandemic and the impacts of the lockdown associated with the pandemic. Firstly, and we'll go through that fairly quickly. I'll invite you, if you have comments, please put them in the chat and I'd be very happy to bring in comments into the discussion as we go along. You don't need to wait until the end to add your comments. And then we'll go and we'll spend most of the time we have looking at, well, what do we need to do? How are land rights and our work relating to land rights part of both the short-term recovery and the long-term resilience building, particularly of food systems that are gonna get us out and not only out to where we were before, but out to a better place than we were before. Okay, so that's setting the scene. Let me introduce to you, we're gonna hear first from four panelists in the first section. I'll introduce them quickly and then, so you know who to expect coming up and then we'll let them talk. So first we have Javier Molina Cruz, who is the head of FAO's land tenure section and he's also speaking in his capacity as the co-chair of the Global Donor Working Group online. We'll then go and we'll hear from Laura Mejolaro, who's the team leader at the Land Portal Foundation. The Land Portal is a leading knowledge broker and one of the most innovative digital resources in the land sector, promoting data exchange, dialogue and collaboration. From there we'll go to the very honorable Esther Penuña of the Asia Farmers Association. She's the secretary general of one of the largest global federations of farmer organizations representing farmers in Asia. And then lastly, we're going to Liberia to Francis Collet, who is the program coordinator and senior researcher for the Association of Environmental Lawyers of Liberia. So we'll get these different perspectives from a UN agency, from a data specialist organization, from a very large farmers federation and from a lawyer working on the grounds in a country in Africa. And then we'll open up a little bit and then we'll go into a second round. Okay, so Esther, I'm gonna start with you. I think we always need to start with those who directly work on and use the land and feed most of the world's population as small farmers do. From AFA's perspective, what could you tell us in just a few minutes are the most immediate effects of the COVID-19 pandemic on your members? Over to you please. Thank you, Mike. You are giving me this question at the right time because we just concluded a workshop on sustaining family farming in Asia Pacific, which was part of the Asia Land Forum convened by ILC, AI Now, AFA and SEI, with also the support of EFAD. We know six immediate effects based on these exchanges that happened during this workshop. First, increased displacement of landless farmers and indigenous communities. Migrant workers from cities domestic or abroad returned to the provinces and their farms. And in cases where these returners are land owners and local elites, they are driving out land displacing tenants and shared croppers. And ancestral lands are threatened to be further encroached by low landers and even by local governments. Second, additional pressures for land use. If they are part of the farming family, additional members put additional pressures for the land to be more productive so as to feed more family members. Mobility restrictions have made it difficult for family farmers to access input and supply, also limiting areas for planting and therefore reducing harvest in the future. In Fiji, for example, there are many new farmers because of the returners and they need some capacities for technologies on sustainable production. Third is the suspension or halt of agrarian reform services by governments and CSOs. Because of the mobility restrictions and shifting priorities to COVID-19, activities related to land distribution and land titling to qualified beneficiaries and the corollary agrarian support services have been stopped or slowed down. Further threatening the land tenure security of landless farmers. Fourth is with a pastoralist in Mongolia and Kyrgyzstan. Because of travel restrictions, they had to change the route of their pastures and changing routes was difficult. And the COVID-19 has prevented pastoralists from going to or returning back from their summer pastures. Just to more, fifth is the same giving of license to private companies and industries to come to the territories of local indigenous peoples. And sixth, during the COVID-19, several land rights defenders and activities were threatened, arrested or killed as reported by colleagues in Cambodia, Indonesia, Philippines, sowing fear among the people. As democratic assemblies and mass gatherings are prohibited due to social distancing, the right to peaceful assemblies increasingly curtailed and the call for justice for these killings are ignored. Back to you, Mike. Thank you, Esther. That's quite a sobering list of impacts. Resoundingly negative and challenging. One of the things we do in ILC is we monitor, we contribute to monitoring efforts of violations against human rights defenders. And we've logged 50 violations related to COVID-19 lockdowns. And I'm sure in your country's Esther, this has been the heightened vulnerability of those who usually defend our common heritage in situations of lockdown. Let's go to Francis. Francis Collet is talking to us from Liberia. Francis, I hope your connection will be stable enough just now when we were testing it, it was good. Unlike yesterday when we had trouble. So let's go to you and give you the floor just to give us an idea from Liberia. Did what Esther described for Asia resonate with you or are you seeing different impacts from COVID-19 in Liberia? Over to you. Francis, are you there? No, it seems like we may have temporarily lost Francis. I'll jump, we'll come back to Francis because I'd really like, I think it'll be very important to hear from him. But let's go to Laura first. Laura, could you just give us what you've been hearing in the LAN portal? So LAN portal has been very active. I've seen a good number of webinars you've organized over the last few months on COVID and indigenous peoples, on COVID and food systems. Tell us a little bit about what you've heard in these sessions that gives you a sort of picture of the data relating to COVID and land rights. Yes, Mike, it's true. The demand for information has never been greater during this COVID-19 period and the LAN portal is trying to do whatever we can. We established this LAN information hub on COVID-19. Most are anecdotal information because as you know very well, there is no statistical or numerical evidences yet to measure this impact. But we also try to convene people around webinars and discussions to really hear from them on real cases on what is happening on the ground. But just to report one concrete example, Mike, from South Africa, from Edita, one example that described the need for better data to really tackle with these crises. We just concluded this research on the study in South Africa on the availability and accessibility of land data and the challenge in accessing quality and comparative data information about informal settlement to tackle the pandemic. So what came out from this research is that despite the data exist and there is a great deal of data, so over the last months during the epidemic when it come down to managing the disaster response based on usable information and prioritizing the follow-up responses around addressing conditioning in formal settlement. So the challenge of identifying up-to-date data about informal and rural settlements that could be coupled with data about the people living in such settlements has proven to be very difficult. So again, these highlighted the need for more institutional coordination around data sharing across the state and non-state actors. But also, I mean, the fact is that data exists but existing pockets often is protected, is not available in shareable, reusable formats. So it is incredibly difficult, Mike, to clarify data custodianship and land-related data sets are so fragmented across jurisdictions and different departments and poor data publishing practices make the situation even more difficult. So this doesn't help using data to get a clear measure of the impact of this pandemic in the sector. So I just wanted to highlight this problem that is not just in South Africa but is happening in many other countries. So data is very, very important to help us measuring the real impact of the crisis is having in the sector and it's difficult to use data. Thank you, Lara. It's interesting what you're saying. I think what you're saying of data is reflecting what we see more widely in that the pandemic situation has really shown up the cracks in the system, hasn't it? It's, you know, we've had shortages of data just like there have been problems with food systems, for example, but when we arrive in the situation that we've come to this year, those cracks become very visible and the implications of not having that data are all the more, this is where we need that data in order to respond appropriately. So thank you for sharing that. There was a request from somebody in the chat to please share the link to that report. If you had it, if you have it, that would be great. There are a few more links we've put in the chat as well. We've put in a report that we did from ILC on the role of land rights in responding to COVID and I saw that Land Portal has put some other links as well. So please feel free to go into the chat and download those and continue to ask questions as well. Now, I see Francis' name here. Francis, are you with us? Can we bring you in at this point? Yes. Excellent. Okay, feel free to leave it. We'd love to see you, but maybe for the connection it's better to leave your camera off. I don't know how much of Esther's presentation you heard, but she was describing a very challenging situation for many farmers in her member countries during the COVID-19 pandemic. And it's to understand from Liberia, if you heard what she said, in what ways is the situation that the communities that you're working with different or similar? What kind of challenges, in what ways are they feeling the impacts of the pandemic? Okay, Michael, thank you. I want to thank everyone for coming forward to listen to this discussion. So we are working with our colleagues at the Columbia Center on Sustainable Investment. And we are following some very disturbing issues in the country, which is more or less arising because of the COVID-19 pandemic we have. And so together with them, we are documenting two activities. And of course, if you look at what is happening across our country, and what she just explained, the impact of farmers is great. And farmers are struggling more than ever before. And so in our case, regarding the work we do with our colleagues at CCSI, one is linked to this policy grab in favor of oil plant companies. So here, the government of Liberia is trying to complete a national consultation on the round table on sustainable palm oil, the draft national interpretation for many people who have followed this oil plant story from Asia like Malaysia and so. So that's the RSPO. And so each oil plant producing company, especially those property outside and also want to continue trade with the RSPO process, they have to now do a certification process. And some of that will include like, for example, working with countries back home. And in the case of Liberia, Liberia is trying to draft a national interpretation for the RSPO. So what is happening here is the government is trying to get this national consultation ongoing but outside the free prime form consent of the affected communities. So the people whose ancestral land are being cultivated for oil palm, those who are areas are being earmarked for oil palm cultivation, these communities are still not able to participate because of the COVID-19. And if you find the government trying to get such an important policy up, then it is something to worry about, especially looking at how everything is tied to land, the level of issues. So that's one. The second one we're trying to document, we're documenting with our colleagues is the one linked to land grab in which a mining company backed by government is undertaking mineral exploration in an established completed forest. And this too is happening outside the free prime form consent of the affected community. And the committed foreign was established in line with applicable Liberian law. And so this is something of serious concern to us as we work on this. But for many people who probably have not followed what happened in Liberia, I'll just quickly go over a conflict contest so people can see this team more clearly and can also really move to the responses provided by my colleague regarding the impact of farmers. So first, Liberia is a post-conflict country. And in this country, like any other area where there's conflict, the tendency for violence is very hard. Many who can still go back to war again. And then the next thing that happened to us is that after the Civil War, we are still trying to build sustainable peace. It means that we are not being able to effectively address the root causes of our civil war. For example, as a country, we have not been able to address the exploitation, the trade, the distribution and benefit of natural resources which were all causes, root causes of our war. And then if you follow our former president, President Ellen Justice Salif, she highlighted when she was in office that in Liberia, we'll go back to civil war, it will be about land conflict. So that's something very serious. And then despite all that we know in terms of the impound community, the extraction of natural resources without the consent of local communities, our investment is to stay and create economy activities. And we are doing this through foreign direct investment. So there's large scale mining, agricultural and forestry concessions. So again, finally, why this is something very encouraging to help the struggling economy because we're going to create economy opportunities and we raise the tax revenue. But in reality, such a rapid investment has not been conflict sensitive. And right now in Liberia, it is becoming a different method to sustain the peace. So we are not being able to secure the delicate balance between the investment, the environment and people. So this is our challenge. So it comes back to where she is. If people are not consulted when concessions have been awarded and their rights have been violated, what also says polluted? Lots of foreign resources that depend on obviously the impact of farmers, especially in the crisis that they would be heavier than anything else. Francis, thank you. Thank you so much for for painting us a little picture. And I think what really struck me is you've described the post-conflict situation where a country is trying to rebuild itself and is trying to create economic opportunities to set raised tax revenue, but is doing so in a way that is falling heavy on the shoulders of the poorest and is actually dispossessing the poorest people from the biggest safety net that they have. And as you described that, it struck me very strongly the risk in so many more countries as we emerge from the pandemic, as governments desperately try to kickstart their economies again and look for economic opportunity, that what you've just described happening in Liberia could happen in so many countries. And so I think it's a very vivid example of the importance of securing land rights as we go into the recovery phase. You also came up to the very interesting label I haven't heard before. You talked about policy grabbing. And I guess what you mean is the government pushing through policies very quickly in a period where they might be otherwise be unpopular and there might be some opposition to them. Okay, so we'll come back to that. And again, I'd encourage participants who are listening from the floor if you have experiences of your own that are similar or different from what you're hearing, please share them in the chat. And later on, we'll open up the floor and let people talk as well. Okay, so let's go to our last panelist for this round. Over to Xavier. Xavier, from your position in FAO and your responsibility in leading the land tenure division and particularly in supporting the implementation of the application of the VGGTs, what do you expect from your bird's eye view to be the medium to long-term impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic? Over to you, please. Thank you, Mike. I will let you point out the following. First, which is the most immediate impact we have seen so far, and we have heard from Esther, what has happened in other regions as well, is the lack of access to land by a lot of communities, farmers, indigenous communities, which means again, lack of access to their land and in some cases evictions. And all together has resulted and may result in loss of livelihoods, the means of, you know, to sustain the livelihoods, which in the mid-term, long-term may result in increasing levels of poverty and food insecurity. A second point we are seeing now is the reducing or closing of a land administration services, a country level, which means that there is a risk of increasing irregular land acquisitions. And so that also means the likelihood of increasing resource grabbing, particularly when it comes to forests, logging, legal logging. And so the reduction in land registration services will have a direct impact on tenure rights and access to resources, particularly the groups who are more vulnerable. Then there is another issue, which is the likelihood of lack of due diligence when it comes to land-based investments, because in an environment where we have poor or weak institutions, land institutions, then the likelihood of increased lack of diligence when it comes to land-based investments will be higher. And another impact, mid-term, long-term, will be, and I think this is happening already, is less funding available to support land-government services at country level. So which means that we have to try to do the best of what we have already and increase our ability to make use effective, efficient use of the resources we have now. So in this connection, I would like to, when we open the floor for Dell with all participants who would like to hear from our colleagues in Serbia, we have here, I think participating, our colleague Darko Vujicic, head of the Center of Excellence of Information Management, U.S. Special Information Management in Serbia, who would like to talk about and share their experience how they have used land data during the COVID-19 pandemic and to address the pandemic and also how to increase resilience for the future in the case of future the crisis. And the other angle that I would like to highlight here is the need to use land water first in a sustainable way to make sure that full systems are sustainable in the long run. And so in this regard, I hope that we'll, in that conversation, we'll, our colleague from the Land-Aware Division, but I wonder if we'll join to share with us how, what tools, what instruments we will have to make sure that we can address the issue of sustainable land management and tenure issues with a view to a strengthening tenure rights in the, in the context of crisis, such as the one we have seen so far. Over to you, Mike. Thank you, Kavya. And a bit later in the discussion, we'll hopefully give the floor to the colleagues that you mentioned. But I would like to bring to you a question which has come in the chat, which you may be able to answer, Kavya. It's from Magdalena Kropovnik and she asks, in light of calls in some countries to put a moratorium on land transactions during this time when it's really open to abuse on a big scale. Is this something that FAO has been approached to advise on? Is FAO in any way tracking moratoria on land transactions, large-scale land transactions during this COVID pandemic? What can you say on that from FAO? So far, this issue hasn't been, let's say, brought up to us. And so, as you know, FAO as a member of state agency, we work directly with governments, with countries. And this particular issue hasn't been raised so far. And so, we don't have specific information on this, but if there may be, in the future, but so far we haven't seen anything concrete on this matter, over. Okay, thank you, Kavya. I would encourage if listeners, other participants, if you're aware of, if you have interesting information, for example, on this question that was just asked, please put it in the chat. So, you have a Q&A button at the bottom and the chat for general comments you can use either. Okay, so, the four panelists have given us a bit of perspective from their different areas of work on the impacts. We're gonna go now and spend the time left, which is the majority of time. Thinking about building back better. Now, you know, building back better is how the Secretary General talks about the recovery from COVID. And the idea, of course, is that we don't go back to the old normal, but we create a new normal. That we've seen how many cracks there are in the systems that we've built around food and land and climate and environment. And so, this is our opportunity to rethink those and to think how we can put in place something which is more people-centred, more environmentally aware and climate-sensitive, more addressing issues of inequality and lack of democracy. And I think that's true in many sectors, but it's really true in the land sector, where we know that the wrong kind of interventions in the land sector, even while meaning, can end up being damaging and particularly damaging to the poorest who need those protections most. Okay, so thinking about building back better and thinking about two phases of building back better that we have now, we hope, the immediate recovery phase. But in the medium to long-term, we have the long-term challenge of building resilience into our food systems and other ways we use land and natural resources. So building back better, Esther, I'll come back to you and ask you for your view from your member organizations in Asia. You know, there's a lot of talking now, a lot of talk about food systems and about healthy food systems. We're about a year away from the Food Systems Summit. You're a champion, as I am, of the Food Systems Summit. So we've both been involved with many other people in thinking through what comes ahead. One of your messages, one of our messages from IOC is family farmers, small scale producers, pastoralists, fisher folk, indigenous peoples really have the opportunity to be at the center of healthy, strong and resilient food systems. So with that message in mind and with that vision in mind about creating healthy, resilient and equitable food systems, what opportunities do you see we have to do that, particularly with a focus on land rights? Over to you, Esther. Yes, thank you for that question, Mike. First of all, we would like to emphasize land rights to a small scale family farmer, both women and men, young or wise, is basic. It is fundamental for a sustainable, healthy, equitable and resilient food systems. Why? Because land is a basic asset for farming without land, where do we plant? If we do not have the rights to the land, we cannot decide on what to produce, how to produce, where to market, where to get loans as we do not have a land title that can be used as a collateral for a loan. We will not invest in making the land productive because after all, as much as 70% of the profit will go to the land owner in spite of all our hard work. And we will never know when our land owner will get the land from us. If we do not own our land, we do not have decision over its use. We will have very small portion of whatever profits we may get from the use of the land, even if we do all the hard work. So there's no justice there, right? No equity there if we have no rights to the land. But rights, ownership and stewardship of the land is just the first step. To have sustainable food production as a farmer, we need to make this land productive, not only for some years, but for many years to come for the next generation, for our children. Thus we must have sustainable, climate resilient, integrated, diversified, organic, biodiverse, agricultural systems, whether it is in lowlands, uplands or forests. We must practice sustainable pasture management, sustainable agriculture, sustainable forest management, integrated water management on our lands. And because our land is part of a whole ecosystem, we must get other farmers in our areas to also do sustainable climate resilient agriculture. Because for example, if you want to grow organic corn, but the other farmer one kilometer away, does farm sprays pesticide, our organic farm can be affected, the irrigation waters running through our own farm can get infected. And then sustainable food systems is also sustainable processing, packaging, marketing and distribution. If we own our land, we can put a processing facility, say a community-based rice meal, community-based machine for grating coconut. We do value addition, which can increase the market price of our product and therefore our incomes. If we have rights to our land, we will be free to join cooperatives that will facilitate processing, packaging and marketing and distribution of our products. And joining cooperatives will facilitate more equitable distribution of wealth among its members, us. So Mike, please allow me to state our recommendations at this state, because for sustainable resilient equitable systems, we ask governments to secure rights to land for small scale farmers, pasture release herders, forest dwellers, indigenous peoples and water rights to small scale fishers. We have the CFS voluntary guidelines of the governance of 10 year of land, waters, fisheries and forests, as well as responsible agri-investments. We ask governments to apply this in the national laws, provide incentives and support for sustainable climate resilient, biodiverse integrated, diversified, agro-ecological systems, provide incentives and support for sustainable processing, packaging and marketing, supporting more local food systems and local market hubs. And please to recognize the role of family farmers by strengthening multi-stakeholder approaches and mechanisms for agriculture and rural development, making family farmers to our organizations and cooperatives equal partners in the design and implementation of agriculture programs, particularly with the implementation of the UN decade of family farming at the national and regional level. So with the UN food system summits, we look forward to multi-stakeholder, member state dialogues at the national level where we can articulate and design the transformative food systems in our countries and in our region. Back to you, Michael. Thank you so much, Esther. I really like your very holistic approach to say resilience is about environmentally sustainable methods, strong institutions, strong links between farmers. And I think it's that holistic perspective, which I hope will be a very strong message into the food system summits. And all of that has its basis, land and natural resources. And I should emphasize not just access to land, but really management, isn't it? It's management of those resources in a way which brings benefits to people and to the environment. Okay, so we're gonna go over to Francis. I would just encourage you before we hear from, or while we're hearing from the next speaker, have a look at the chat. There's a lot of very interesting information going in about this idea of a moratorium. It's been called for in some countries what their response has been and whether FAO, the role that FAO could play if it was able to hear government more easily. Have a look at that. Francis, if you're online, we're gonna come back to you now. And you described an effort to rebuild rural economies and societies and food systems in a post-conflict situation. And I guess what we're in now and coming out of the pandemic will be again like a post-conflict situation. And so you'll be maybe trying to restart and revitalize what you've already been trying to do. But give us a bit of an idea how land tenure is part of your vision and the vision of communities and local organizations that you work with for creating better and more resilient food systems coming out of COVID-19. Over to you, Francis. We can't hear you, Francis. I see you're unmuted, but we're not hearing your voice. Okay, Francis is gonna hopefully get reconnected as he successfully did just now. And while we're waiting for Francis, I'll jump to Lara. So Lara, you gave us some interesting perspectives on data. Here from you, after you've spoken, I'm gonna go to the floor and I'm going to ask for our colleague from Serbia to be ready to give us his perspective. But before we go there, Lara, what needs to be done to ensure more effective and transparent land information systems coming out of COVID-19 pandemic situation? Please. Well, what we think is that land data need to be better governed because when they are well-governed and available for use, for instance, to monitor the impact of the pandemic, there is a range of actors that can have access and use the data. Then that's the path to public good. So they can really become useful for better public services and better decisions. So the government departments who are the main custodians of data and responsible for maintaining and making data available, but of course also private organizations or research institutions, including civil society organizations, they all need support to do a better job to improve the overall information ecology and improve data sharing because data sharing is really, really important because everyone is producing a small portion of the data, but to really have the full picture, we need to correlate data, compare data and put data together. So data sharing is really the way forward. So the state of land information researcher, the land portal is doing at the country level in several countries, is a particular effort in collaboration with local research institutions. It offers a picture of what is available in the country, but also how this information is accessible. And also it offers concrete recommendations that can go in the direction of suggesting more collaboration across jurisdictions of information departments. It can go into, for instance, clarifying custodianships because of course to understand what government or what department is, is it responsible for the maintenance of a certain database, or it can also go in the direction of enforcing the use of good publishing practice, not to include the metadata or user standards. So all that is needed to improve interoperability, so data sharing, and clarifying and mapping this ecosystem, what is available in the country and how accessible data is, is the first step towards improving the whole information ecology and generating more transparency and also data for decision making. That's the first step towards using data, especially in these difficult crisis, difficult moments. Thank you, Lara. I think a very good lead on from what you said would be an example. I would ask if we can bring from the floor Mr. Darko Vucicic, who was introduced by Javier. He is the head of the Center for Excellence for Geospatial Information Management in the Geodetic Authority of Serbia. And I would like you, if we just give you two minutes, please, to give us an idea of how you're using data to establish a risk register and how your government is using that to overcome exactly the kind of challenges that Lara was explaining to us. Over to you, Darko. Thank you for being ready to share with us. Good afternoon, everybody. I'm very honored to present my institution and our response to COVID. I am referred to Lara's speak and also Franci's. And I am coming from the institution who is responsible also for disaster and property registration, mass valuation, utility disaster. So I can reply also for this length of section during the COVID. So it's very interesting results. And I would like to share it with you. The first regarding data sets, my Center of Excellence for Spatial Data Infrastructure recording that is build some geospatial hub, central hub for all public sector data, geospatial data, which is available to everybody. But in 2016, I would just refer to the quality of this data. Half of the citizens was without proper address. And four and a half million buildings and properties were not registered. So we used our new technologies like geospatial platform with combination of crowdsourcing and all data sets to update those data. And also, what is very important that I would like to underline here is about business processes, for example, for length of section and updating of these data. And we, in 2016, we saw that it's a very big problem. It's an analog business process. So we changed the policy. Many, many laws introduced digital signatures include the innovative technologies in order to digitize these processes. The result was astonished. From 47 days needed for this length of section, we came for four days. Why it's so important? It's because when COVID-19 started, Serbia and my institution were, let's say, ready for this government to establish two working groups led by Prime Minister and President of Serbia for health and social affairs and economy. And digital platform and data hub, together with all these streamlined business processes, were extremely critical infrastructure for smart and efficient decision-making. So every week, for example, we provided the information of real estate market information for a previous week and providing enough data and information to the decision-making for minister of finance and so on to adapt their policies and recommendations for this real estate, for example, market. And thanks to all of these, real estate market were able to recover in April. It was, with compare with 2019, were minus 78%. So it's a huge decrease. But in only one month after, in April, in May, actually, it was plus 30% with compare with 2019. And my recent information shows that even in this year of COVID situation, this year will be regarding these number of transactions and the amount of money for land intersection will be the best year in the last 12 years. So it's very important to say. Our geospatial platform is also adapted to support COVID decision-making. It served and data within and end-to-end services, digital services, served for government institution and local municipalities to guide, for example, lockdown, to provide all data to make activity for agriculture, for small farming and so on, in order to not to stop field activity, but to ensure protection and safety of citizens. So what is the best? I'm a positive person in the nature. So what is the positive conclusion here? Because even we had in last year, for example, these digital processes and digital services, our citizens, because of habits, they went on the local offices and waiting in the queue. After this COVID lockdown and all these situations that goes on, it was for us very happy to see that there are no, so everything is electronic. And also we want to introduce new risk register, new information system, which will serve not only for COVID like this, but also for other disaster risk management and reduction processes like landslides, like all others. And I would like to thank FAO because all these we work together with FAO and with the guidelines. And I will share with, in chat, our recent paper, they're all made together. So you can see in more details all these facts that I mentioned. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Visicic. That's a very tangible example of being ready with the data and the systems that when the pandemic came, you could ensure on the one hand, I guess, an orderly continuation of transactions and avoiding some of what we heard from some of the other speakers of increase of vulnerability to land grabbing. But at the same time, we'll have a much quicker recovery. So thank you for that example. If you have any links, please put them in the chat so that we can follow up. Okay, we're going to try again with Francis. Francis, are you with us? Yes. Excellent. Please tell us what building back better will mean for the organizations that you work with in Liberia. Okay, thank you and Sarah again for being offline. So I'd like to just quickly go back to when you try to like, you know, repeat some of the key points that came out from my first presentation. Exactly the issue of grabbing policy and land without the consent of the affected communities, it's not conflict sensitive. It is not conflict sensitive. It only depends the violation of the commercial rights and the ability to secure sustainable livelihood. You know, so for us, we see real difficulties in rebuilding your lives after the COVID-19 for our communities. So like I highlighted before, before I get to the key recommendations we have, our communities are going to like, wake up after COVID-19 and they will find their voices were not heard in the validation of a key policy document that will define the oil pan set up for generations and also affect their control and management of their land and resources. For the communities that are highlighted regarding mining operations in the community forest, even when the community members have control over their own land and forest and they were dreaming of introducing community enterprises, when they will come, they're going to find that everything is lost. So just to go back to some of the impact we see happening, increase loss of access to farmland for resources on which everyone is aware, local communities depend on the issue of scarcity of water sources due to pollution. And of course, we see the environmental impact. So clearly from our point, we will not have to be very careful for example, that the resource of community consultations will have to be followed very far. We are aware number one, that there's now a potential for one side information in which the negative externalities of investment are not being communicated to their fellow communities. This is always a common issue. The communities we live in and we're working, the companies we see when they come to our communities, they are only talking about the benefits of investment, the roads, the schools. They're not talking about the negative impact that there will be loss of access to farmland and community will not be able to grow food. They're not going to talk about pollution of water sources. So this is something we need to watch out for. We got to watch out and keep an eye on company manipulation through divide and rule tactics. Companies often divide citizens, they divide and open to yes and no groups, cleverly preventing the affected communities from speaking as one group. This is something that people should watch out for, especially after COVID-19. People got to know that there's also going to be the absence of a support system where local communities who are supported by their NGO partners and their community lawyers. So if consultation is not possible and participation not affected, these support services are not going to be there. So we're going to keep an eye on them. So that aside, moving forward in terms of what we need to be looking at, how do we ensure food security for our people? The first one we say is to encourage the companies to go beyond the business case to invest in a particular country, especially in a conflict-affected area. They have to go beyond the business case to include the social case. And the social case we're taking to account all the implications for how communities are going to survive once there's an investment. So it means that the issue of food security are issues that can be thoroughly investigated and integrated into all the different strategies the company is going to introduce to roll out their investment. So going beyond the business case is the first one and it's showing that there is. Social case to any investment is certainly very important. But two, we will encourage companies that are all time and government at all time to ensure human rights due diligence and they should have emphasis on conflict-sensitive issues and also the issue of gender sensitivity. This kind of due diligence issues are important and we think they are issues that we need to prioritize going forward in this COVID. Because we believe companies can do better and they have the resources, they have the technical capacity to do this. So we're all urging them to work with the governments to keep doing this. The next thing is, I think for us going forward is we need to be looking at how to address the definition of issue regarding what is consultation and participation. Many people will overlook this. We're good to have a clear definition regarding what constitutes committed participation and consultation. Because we have not been able to talk to the committees even within COVID. We are so worried about them. But we've been aware, they've been talking to us that they too are affected by COVID-19 and are having some subtle talks regarding how they want to participate in processes out there. So it is good to ask them, in this case, how do you feel consulted and how do you think you are participating in a particular consultation? So that's why I would say good for all to talk about the issue of the definitional issue regarding what is consultation and participation while asking the committee to set this definition. And also, we think we need to work on policy reform clearly and policy reform when taking into account the type of consultation that are possible and legal during a pandemic like this. Going forward, we need to have a serious conversation on the policy direction regarding what kind of consultation and participation can we work on and prioritize. And how do we use that as indicator to determine that seriously, people were involved, they were consulted, let alone the issue, the full security issues were all addressed. And then- Thank you, Francis. Okay. Thank you, Francis. That's super. You've given us already an extremely broad and wide-ranging agenda, which sounds like a huge challenge, but I think also at the same time, we appreciate the many fronts, the accountability, the building positive partnerships, every aspect of what needs to be done in order to have a mutually beneficial relationship with investors. Okay, we're going to hear from another community level in Ethiopia in a minute. We've got a great experience from Ethiopia to share, but before we go there, let me just come back to Xavier. There's been quite a lot in the chat about the VGTs and I guess the RIAS well, the Responsible Agricultural Investment Guidelines are very pertinent. How do you see the next phase of building back better, particularly with relation to what's already been agreed in these agreements that the Committee for World Food Security has helped to broker? And how can those be real guides for countries to get back on track and to build back better than they had before in terms of land tenure? What would FAO say should be the way for them? Thank you, Mike. I will point at two issues. We'll let you bring your attention to all the colleagues. One is, it is once again, it's confirmed the need to secure tenure rights, particularly by the most vulnerable groups, small farmers, women, indigenous peoples. And to do so, we have a good news. We have no new technologies which we can use and deploy a country level which are inexpensive, such as open tenure, for instance, this application, this example only, there are others. They are inexpensive, which means that we can reach out a larger number of people, farmers, in a relatively short period of time, as opposed to the traditional surveying programs done in the past, by which surveying was done and then the land registration was done afterwards. Now we can do a faster and cheaper. And the other thing there are participatory, which means that communities themselves participate in identifying boundaries and that decreases the level of land conflicts and disputes which allows to faster a process of land regularization. So one thing, that's one point. We need to now think about new approaches to regularize tenure rights and we have them. And so we have some evidence already that works. Again, it's an expensive participatory and that I think we can want as built as we build back. The other point I would like to bring to your attention to is that we already have also ongoing processes in a number of countries, which are, I see quite quite a great partner of this, multi-stakeholder platforms because to engage private sector, to engage government agencies, to engage other partners, we have to have a mechanism which facilitate that engagement and create a consensus to move forward because each country has its own features, its own opportunities and challenges. And those are sorted out at that level. These national platforms, multi-stakeholder platforms which are coordination mechanisms which you discuss policy, ranging from a land titling to a land investments. How to deal with investors, private investors wanting to invest in the land, how to partner with them. And this kind of dialogue, policy dialogue is very well placed within these platforms which are already operating and we can build upon and leverage as we build back in the future. Over to you, Mike. Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much, Javier. And we're gonna go to Ethiopian now, but I've noticed that we have a number of donors who are participating. I see there's BMZ, there's DFID, there's USAID. And I would invite any of you that want to give us perspective as a donor to compliment what Javier has just said. And share a little bit about what role donors might play in supporting a building back better. So put up your hand if you'd like to say something. A little bit of time to think because we'll go first in this final section as we open up the discussion. To a colleague from Ethiopia, we're very fortunate to have Dr. Ziade Hailu with us. He's part of the Land for Life Consortium in Ethiopia. One of the things that Javier just mentioned is multi-stakeholder platforms and the idea of having a mechanism that allows a wide range of stakeholders, of people who have a part in decision-making over land to be part of that decision-making. Please tell us from what the Land for Life initiative in Ethiopia has been doing, what do you see as the role of civil society and particularly multi-stakeholder platforms in helping to build back better? Ziade, over to you. Thank you very much, Mike. Good evening, others. Well, in Ethiopia, we have been engaged in multi-actor partnership because we believed a thing like land which is very complicated cannot be solved by a single organization or single individuals. So what we are trying to do is basically bring on board all stakeholders. There could be farmers, there are people from academia, from government, from business people, and sit together and plan out how to solve the problems such as land issues. So we are trying to be a voice for the voiceless in Ethiopia, a credible organization that speaks out on behalf of the poor people when land-right violation happens and so on. So we also try to engage in a policy dialogue with the government. For example, the Ethiopian government has come up with a 10-year government plan. We are almost ready to give a structural response mainly to keep land on the agenda because we in Ethiopia are passing through a transition and the government has a lot of priorities. So we make sure that the government focuses where it has to focus because as we have seen, the land issue is about food security, about nutrition, about peace and all that. So that's basically what we are trying to do with support from our colleagues and hopefully after sometime we'll be a very strong organization engaged in advocacy and all that. So another question, Mike, is what should be, what are the roles of civil society organizations in this difficult time? In my view, the COVID has revealed really what the CSOs are made up of, whether we are made from sterner staff or something else. But I see three main contribution that CSOs can engage, can help so that the land rights should be on a map where they should be. And the first one I think is engage in service delivery. Another contribution that CSOs can do is in terms of education and outreach. And thirdly, advocacy. Let me say a few things how civil society organizations can help in service delivery. In terms of land administration institutions, civil society organizations can help so that the land administration can engage public health dimension. For example, in their activities, they can use water, sanitation, masks and all that can be supplied. I can also think of a service delivery that they can capacitate course mediation institutions for effective dispute resolution because as we know, for the past six, seven months there has been disruption in these institutions. They can also provide legal aid for the poor people especially for women and vulnerable population. In terms of education and outreach, most people, especially people who cannot read and write do not know what their land rights are. And civil society organizations can be instrumental in teaching people, educated people what their rights are and also legal education. In terms of advocacy, in my view, civil society organizations can advocate and lobby so that fair land laws are in place. And as Javier was saying that there has been disruption in oversight and land administration oversight. And these institutions can demand improved oversight by district officials, by regional governments. And there are a lot of unresolved boundary and ownership issues for the past many, many months and civil society organizations can play a role so that the government really puts land on the agenda and try to solve all this. Thank you very much. Back to you, sir. Thank you so much, Dr. Hailew. I think a very practical perspective from Ethiopia. Okay, we're lucky to have from the floor. I've just brought him into the panel Chris Penrose Buckley from the FCDL. I think the ex-defeat. I don't even know what that stands for, Foreign and Commonwealth Development Office. Maybe Chris, you'll say, but we'd love to hear your perspective as a donor that's quite active on land issues. What do you see Chris as the role for donors such as yourselves in building back better on land rights? Over to you, please. Yeah, thank you, Michael. Yeah, and it is the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, just for clarity, for Mdifid. So I think this is a really important question. Better term is kind of a useful thing to gather around, although I think when you go down, I'm not sure it's having been kind of broken apart. I think what COVID-19 has done is highlight how weak land governance systems are, right? And how fragile rights are in so many contexts. What I don't think we have yet is pushed to really tackle it and address it. But I think we and other bilateral donors and multilateral organizations and with ILC have been having a conversation for a while now trying to say, well, how do we need to redefine the case for investing in better land and the recognition of what do we need to do collectively rather than just working in our own silos to really get this on the agenda and really get a concerted push to get governments and all actors to start taking this more seriously. I think the building back agenda is important and it's maybe a useful hook, but obviously there are so many other issues that are also being pushed into this whole new agenda about how to respond better to this crisis and it's a crowded space. So I think we really need to think harder about the narrative around land and how we address this. I think in the coming year, there are some really important opportunities around the food systems summit, the COP26 agenda with a growing focus on land use in the context of climate change. So I think we really have an opportunity next year to get this on the agenda, but I think it's gonna take some hard work and willingness by donors, civil society and other organizations to work together in a more joined up way and to think about a more focused narrative that really makes the case to global leaders and to national leaders that this is something that we need to do. So that's a fairly high level response to your question, Michael, but I think this is a really important agenda that we need to grasp and I think there are some opportunities in the coming year. Thank you. Thank you very much, Chris. And what you're saying actually relates to a great question from Chris Sagadon, who's the CFS secretary in the chat, about how we make the VGGTs, which have been mentioned quite a few times in this discussion, more impactful and real at the country level because I think what's behind Chris's question is the fact that we've been working, we've had the VGGTs for seven or eight years, but as we hit a crisis like this year, it really is apparent how much has not been done in securing land rights. So we've agreed on what we should be doing, but in essence we failed to do this, to do it. And I think if we take what Chris was saying just now, as we look ahead, perhaps the challenges seem even bigger because the world will be so concerned, is concerned and will continue to be concerned with the real immediate crisis that it's facing. COVID-19 today, but and hopefully in a few years' time we get out of COVID-19, but the climate crisis, as we said at the beginning, is really here to stay and will require a huge amount of attention. Now, within the land community, of course we believe that land is absolutely fundamental to addressing these bigger crises, but unless we find a way of keeping that, keeping attention on land, we may find that ironically, the solution that we offer, which is really a systemic solution, is overlooked for the more immediate and urgent challenges that governments are occupied with. Does anybody, would anybody like to comment on Chris's question? And his question is basically, should the CFS be doing more to make the VGT's more impactful at country level? Or is it enough to leave it to FAO, other ILC members, EFID, World Bank, et cetera? Is there more that we can be doing in this urgent time to be applying the VGT's? Let me open it up. If anybody from the floor wants to speak, please put your hand up and we'll, I'll see your hand. And I see we have Mr. David Newmanlow. I'm not sure if you're answering this question, but I'll give you the floor, David, and allow you to please contribute. Go ahead, David. And then if anybody else would like to talk, please also put your hand up. David, are you there? If I could ask the comms team to put their gift. Yes, I see you, please go ahead, sir. Thank you very much, Mike and panelists. Could you lean a little bit closer to the mic because it's a bit faint. All right, all right. Can you hear me now? Great, thank you. I just wanna indicate that the voluntary guidelines seem to be less disseminated, especially in rural communities. And so in as much as it's intended to create impact, to build other people's knowledge, to enhance the community's involvement in securing land rights, it's a little bit not known to rural communities. So in order for us to build back better, there needs to be a lot of dissemination program that will entail reaching out to the communities and making them see a sense of ownership in this document because at the level of, at country levels, there are ongoing land reforms. I'm talking from Cameroon and there's been an ongoing land reform but it's maybe not certain the principles contained in the voluntary guidelines have been disseminated wide enough or taken into consideration in the process of land governance. Now, we in Cameroon are living in a context of especially in the English-speaking regions. We are living both in the context of COVID and in the context of an armed conflict which has been going on for four years, that has seen hundreds of communities displace. Some of, most of them have lost access to their means of livelihood and they are basically trying to find access to land in their host communities which are not their original community. And with all of that and with the fact that they've lost means of livelihood, they've lost investments, they've lost business, they've lost employment, it even becomes very difficult for them to be able to have access to land rights. Cameroon in particular is specific because its procedures for land titling, for example, are a little very, very complex and involves a lot of corruption and bribery. So we, civil society- David, I'm gonna have to, can you wrap up? Okay, thank you. Yeah, I was just saying that civil societies need to be able to take action to explain the procedures to the communities so that they can make informed decision and that's a way of building back better. Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay, so really a fundamental message that maybe we're not seeing so much in some countries on the voluntary guidelines because they just don't know. It's not well enough known. I'm gonna go to Esther, our panelist from AFA and I'm also gonna ask Vieira Buerga from FAO to be ready to come in after Esther to give us also a perspective on the VGGTs. Esther, please, the floor is yours. Thank you, Mike. So just to respond to your question about the role of CFS in promoting VGGT, I think the CFS is like E5, FAO, and WFP at the global level. So we have been calling for a decentralization and maybe a nationalization of CFS processes or at the regional level and at the national level, E5, FAO, WFP, come together and also help, help. And then the CSOs, which are in the CFS global level, they are participants in the whole process of making policies. So regionalize, decentralize the CFS processes where all the multi stakeholders are there. And of course, our friend Esther, education, especially on the rights, the rights of the people and the loss that they have and the gaps that these loss have if we compare it to the principles of the VGGT or the RAI. And over of this, it's the CSOs, they should be supported in terms of organizing these people, the indigenous peoples, the landless, so that they are able to know their rights and have the capacity to negotiate, especially with governments and with landowners or the big companies, thank you. Thank you so much. So I think the clear message from both of you is that the VGGT has become relevant when there's interest, there's momentum, there's pressure from different sectors. So it's not just the role of the government, but civil society organizations, farmers organizations, community organizations have a big role in bringing to life what's in the VGGTs. There's a very interesting comment from Julian Kwan in the chance who's building a bit on what Chris Penrose Buckley was saying earlier on, that as we look to the future, possibly addressing land rights for the sake of land rights will not capture enough attention. And we need to be much cleverer at promoting the work we do on land rights for the bigger issues that contributes to. And for that reason, Julian is saying the CFS is very well placed to take that approach because the CFS looks in a holistic perspective at things like food systems. And so isn't isolating land rights out of those bigger issues? Thank you for that comment, Julian. I'll go over to Viera from FAO to please give us an additional perspective on VGGTs, particularly this question of, we have the VGGTs, why aren't they being more applied? And then I'll go over to Magdalena Kropovnicka from the floor after Viera. Viera, please, the floor is yours. Thank you, Michael. Yes, actually, the request from the countries or the decisions taken during the UNCCD COP actually show us that, and these decisions we're taking with a lot of support from the civil society representatives, they show us that the parties have understood or that they see that tenure security is very necessary in order to achieve land degradation neutrality and also to achieve the sustainable management of land. And the current pandemic shows that the sustainable land management and land tenure security are needed in order to avoid the emergency of this diagnosis and to protect the most vulnerable people from its effect. Actually, in order to achieve LDN or land degradation neutrality, countries need to set effective land use planning mechanisms which serve against encroachment of human activities into ecosystems to be protected. And that will also help in the race of poverty which is linked to the pandemic. Actually, the VGT, the guide which FAE is now helping to develop in order to link the VGT to land degradation neutrality is based on countries which have already good practices or good examples of whether the VGT have been working and where they have been implemented. So that would be formed the basis for the guide which will help the parties which have committed to achieve land degradation neutrality, which is the SDG 15.3 to use the VGT in order to achieve this land degradation neutrality. So that will give it another input, I mean, for using the VGT. Yeah, exactly, it gives the momentum. I think that's a very timely intervention in the light of what you've just heard that possibly we risk losing momentum on the VGTs. The promise of it having a higher profile in the UNCCP is a very positive one. Thank you very much for raising that. And probably the climate change convention, hopefully. Aha, that would be a very significant step forward. And in fact, we saw from the UNFCCC report some months back, attention on land for the first time. Good, thank you for raising that. Right, we're coming here to the end of our time. So I'm gonna give the floor to Magdalena and then we're gonna turn back to each of our panelists for closing a statement. So I'm afraid Magdalena is gonna be the last person from the floor but please do use the chat if you wanna say anything. In the Q&A section, there's an interesting question on digitalization of land records, whether it in fact helps or possibly hinders those most vulnerable to losing their rights. Have a look at that. So carry on in the chat if you want to but we'll go over to Magdalena. Magdalena, the floor is yours. Thank you to CFS secretary. Thank you Chris for this very pertinent question. In two years, we will have 10 years. Can you hear me well? Can you hear me well? We can hear you very well, Magdalena. Carry on. In 10 years, we will have the 10, I mean in two years we will have 10 years since the, and I mean since we finally passed the voluntary guidelines and frankly my perspective is quite interesting because I have left from exactly, you know, eight years ago and when you step out from the land community there is still persistent lack of knowledge outside about voluntary guidelines on land tenure on country level, especially here in the Caribbean where I am now but also where I was posted previously in Uganda. They're outside of the people who are land practitioners and who are directly involved with land tenure issues. There is complete lack of knowledge about that tool. So I think there is still a lot to do but I also wanted to stress that there is an opportunity in COVID in a certain way in terms of democratization and access to spaces. The example of this session, for example of the site event when we are a hundred people here which very likely we wouldn't have the same available, the same access and the same level of participation if not for the digital opportunity of participating via webinar. So I think that's something that all of the organizations CFS perhaps also working in closely with other organizations dedicated to data such as Land Portal Foundation, you could use that to really push the advocacy but towards the governments. Cause I think civil society knows how important VGs are. It is the moment that the governments embrace it and perhaps have some kind of reporting mechanism that you could explore together with others. I would strongly encourage that and it should happen very, very soon but also hand in hand with increased advocacy and communication towards governments I believe because very few countries so far have adapted VGs and have used VGs so far. So I think there's a vast, vast area there that needs to be worked on very quickly. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Magdalena. And have a look at the Q and A chat. There's an interesting idea from Rene Shatra that Lanternia could be built into as a condition for lending in the recovery phase by IFIs. Okay, we're very close to the closing and I'm sorry that we're gonna have to cut the discussion off here, it's been extremely interesting but we're gonna have literally 30 seconds each. So let's just hear from each panelist. What is your one most important takeaway message from this discussion on building back better and Lanternia, the role of Lanternia in building back better. I'll start, I'll go in order of who I can see on my screen. So be ready all of you. I start with the Javier. Thank you, Mike. The message that I would like to convey is that COVID-19 as Chris Butler said, has shown how weak our land administration systems are a country level. And so, but the good news, after eight years of the CFS endorsement, of the CFS entities, the good news is that we have tools, we have approaches, the instruments to build up better, to make them better and to build resilience for the future. And so to do so though, is we need to use the support of the CFS membership. As we have seen the success stories are those cases where we see a full commitment by civil society by the private sector, by government, while all main stakeholders to implement the VGT and to really improve awareness of tenure. So the message is that 47th session of the CFS that is coming up in February next year will be a great opportunity to reinforce the VGTs to recommit members, the other membership to continue working on them because they are key to achieve the SDGs without security in your rights, without sustainable management of food systems, then we won't be able to meet the SDGs, the 2030 development agenda, appeal the resilience that we need to deal with future crisis such as the one we just are going through over. Thank you, Javier. So the VGTs are more relevant than ever and we need to be very strategic and decisive about how we keep attention to them in the light of many competing priorities. Esther, let's go over to you. Yes, thank you, Mike. So my takeaway is that the secured rights to lands, forests, pastures, even waters by small-scale family farmers is fundamental to achieve sustainable, equitable food systems. Therefore, a multi-stakeholder approach with people, with the farmers, the indigenous peoples, the pastoralists at the center, driving this process, but with the support and with the political will of the governments and with the support of international partners is key. We have many tools. It's the will that is needed. Thank you. Thank you, Esther. And I also see it's 100% behind you as a member. And I hope that message comes out strongly between now and the Food Systems Summit. Okay, the next person on my screen is Laura. Please give us your takeaway. Thank you for that extremely interesting session. My takeaway is that what we need to be vigilant about is that data is treated as public good. So I would like to see more conversations on how data sharing and knowledge sharing can help building back better and build collaborative digital environments. I know that half of the population still don't have access to internet, so we need to be conscious about that. But digital platforms can really promote information in a democratic and inclusive way and create a space where trust and agency are ensured and democratizing access to land information. So we're working in that direction and I hope to see more collaborating partners working with us too. Thank you, Mike. Thank you. Thank you, Laura. A reminder of what a powerful tool data can be in a time ahead where we desperately will need tools to help us to move ahead. Okay, let's go over to Francis in Liberia. Francis, your takeaway, please. Okay, so for me, I think putting communities at the center of investment, especially during this pandemic, is very much important and it's a key takeaway point. And it means that we have to ensure they are right to full security, especially committed that we're already vulnerable before we had these crisis. I think this should be key pride for us. And then we need to obtain their consent in decisions that will ultimately affect them today and tomorrow. And quickly regarding the VGGG, if you look at what we got there, it is almost what every country looking for now. Many countries are struggling with lengthening issues and this is just where every country should be going to find some solution. So it takes a moment forward. We need to invest in awareness racing of the developmental relevance of the VGGT. So for example, at the country level in Liberia, not many people are aware of what really it is and what it can do in any way. So some kind of investment in awareness and education regarding the developmental relevance of a VGGT is important. And I agree with my colleagues, tying that around the work of civil society. You have to know that for example, when you had the ERTI, I mean the ERTI, the S-Factor Injury Transparency Initiative, civil society had to take the lead on the normal of this front. So in our country like here, if you have civil society taking the lead in a normal way with government champions, that team can have something. Another point about the VGGT is that... Thank you Francis. Oh okay. I want to give the last one, but it's in the end. You're taking away from Zayed Zayed's time. Okay, I'll give you five seconds to finish and then we go over to Dr. Haile. The last one on the VGGT model is we need to incentivize countries that are implementing the VGGT. Let's incentivize countries so that they can implement the VGGT. Our countries respond to incentive. So it's much like that will work. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much, Francis. Sorry to cut you off. Dr. Haile, you get the last word as the last panelist to give us your message. Thank you very much, Mike. Where the takeaway for me is that the collaborative multi-actor partnership can be an interesting advocacy strategy for inclusive land governance and also the takeaway is that we need to introduce technology to the rural population because this is what COVID has shown us. We need to move from cashless transaction to sort of low-touch economy. And the last is I have a praise for the digital platform and I guess I go and write a poem and praise that we are able to be together and understand, share ideas on land rights. Thank you very much. Good night. Thank you for those closing words and appreciation of our digital platform that brings us together from across the world. So thank you so much to an absolutely fantastic group of panelists for the many, many speakers and contributors in the chat from the floor. You know, I think just my one reflection on this discussion is that in a sense we haven't said much new, have we? Than even if we had this discussion before COVID. We're saying at the center needs to be an approach in which communities play a lead role which takes the VGGTs that works together with governments and in making them real, which recognizes tenure rights. So in fact, what we're saying is that the pandemic has made us realize that perhaps we've made less progress than we'd hoped to make and the urgency of moving ahead strongly is absolutely there. And I think one clear message as well out of this is that the CFS really has a strong, strong role to play because of the way that it brings different stakeholders together and enjoys the trust of government. So certainly as IOC, the VGGTs remains a very strong guiding document to the work of all of our 250 members. And we will be working our best over the coming years as we get out of COVID to keep it at the center. And from what's been said here, I believe many donors will and many other organizations. Thank you so much, everybody. It's been a wonderful discussion. It's been really great to hear everybody and it's been a privilege for me to be moderating it. Thank you so much. Goodbye, have a good evening. Thank you.