 Good afternoon everybody and welcome to today's webinar Express Marketing with purpose building trusted brand experiences, but I guess speaker Ben irons from Microsoft, which has been organized by CIM Wales If you are a university student attending today's webinar, you may want to sign up to the CIM marketing club All you'll need to do is hover your mobile phone camera over the QR code You can see on screen and that will take you through to the marketing club sign up page So I'd now like to hand you over to Ben irons commercial director Microsoft advertising It was our guest speaker today over to you, Ben Thank you Phil and just the echoing Phil's point. Just good afternoon everybody. Thanks for thanks for taking the time to join in I suppose first of all I just want to say thanks very much to the Chatting to marketing for the opportunity to share just be part of the conversation I'm really glad to be here You know really glad to share my insight and our insight from Microsoft that just helps inform marketers to get even better At marketing and building those trusted experiences Quick thank you and shout out to to gareth Morgan and the charting to marketing of Wales board for hosting us as Phil mentioned And thank you to all for attending and watching this session. I hope you find it valuable Informative and maybe adds a little bit extra to your sort of playbook. I suppose if you like from a marketing point of view So, thank you very much Supposed to shifting on then a little bit about a little bit about me a little bit of an introduction and I work at Microsoft I've been here for three years now as Phil mentioned on the in the commercial director role But a big part my role is really around people management. Yes I work with a lot of brands and specifically in the travel industry on their marketing strategies But a big part of my role is is as a people manager and driving inclusive culture Which is a big internal point we have at Microsoft and that's really helping shape me in my journey in Thinking about inclusive marketing think about diversity thinking about how we and build trust experiences and with brands working with advertisers to do that I have worked it I've been very privileged to be worked at some fantastic businesses across the digital marketing industry over the years And that has led me to to be able to work with some brilliant brands and I've actually been a digital marketing director from not on the high street and you know tried to impart my knowledge and wisdom and strategy into some of our marketing strategies and it's not easy and I think my journey is really On the development path in that sense I am on my own journey as a marketing professional as a people manager and as a people person as an employee is as well as well I'm learning about purpose and learning obviously all the time about inclusivity and that's really what today is about You know Microsoft ourselves, you know, we're obviously on a journey of learning and evolving You know, we don't always get it right and we're continually striving to learn and improve and obviously we're helping educate others Informing them on their own journey in search for building more connections with with consumers and driving more inclusive cultures as well I also wanted to share a little bit about me as well like who am I and You know I'm sat behind the screen here, which in normal times might be in a room But it isn't the case of the moment. Hopefully we'll get back there soon, but just to humanize me a little bit more I'm white. I'm British Actually born in Swansea in Wales and I'm married I have a young family with two little boys one of them who's three the other one who's fairly fresh She's just four months old and I'm flew on Welsh speaker. I'm very proud of it. I'm very proud of my Welsh heritage as well And when I think about values, which we're going to talk a lot through this presentation on all this this talk around values They really have shifted over the past couple years to family And that's really led me to be thinking more about my personal purpose, which has also really shifted towards family as well And this is really important Because purpose, you know, it's a big thing as a headline, but it really does deserve the space and respect You know, we're going to give it and think about it From a personal point of view, you know, I'm always thinking about you know purpose and how that you know Sometimes shifts and change depending on sort of circumstances as I mentioned family has really become a Key driver for me now and thinking about my purpose But I'm always learning as well It's funny if I was actually just even out on a run this morning And I was listening to an audio book that I have on the go at the minute There was validating some of my thoughts around purpose, which is you know, our purpose is Is constant, you know, it's not just a goal that you set It really is the reason it's kind of your north star It's the the thing that everything is driving towards And it's informing the decisions we make, you know It's all the decisions we make are linked back to that purpose and in the best examples It brings it all back into one one place as well And I think again from a personal context and thinking about my journey as a manager as well, you know, I'm a white British male I'm really trying to become a better ally for all the employees that I work with all the friends family people I engage with and around my purpose that has a big connection and it's something that I'm Working towards thinking about, you know, how do I become a better ally? How can I understand people more or better and be a better ally to people in my in my role in my personal capacity and professional capacity as well And I think we think conceptually about purpose, you know, it gets us into uncomfortable positions at some times I think as brands and as marketers, you know, we really have to spend time thinking about what is our purpose? What is this, you know put ourselves in those uncomfortable positions embrace it and really think about how You know, we can drive better results from our marketing better connections with our customers all linked back to our purpose From a marketing context what I wanted to focus on today really is Thinking about and talking about the the opportunities brands have to put their customers front and center You know purpose driven products purpose driven services and brand experiences As I mentioned before purpose becomes that front and center that real north star if you like and today Really is about provoking questions. You know thinking as you're watching this or listening to this, you know What's your company's purpose? Does it align with what people care about? Is it reflected in everything you do in your employee relations internally in the culture that you build within your businesses and To the products you build how do they and also to the products we build and how do they demonstrate? How do you demonstrate that also in your marketing as well? You know what I'm going to do today share a framework that we've built around the insight that we've gathered And then use today then there is no magic formula It's an idea of how do we share some of the learnings that we have had of my that help give structure or inform? To enable you to take action or learn from an act off the back of it There is help out there, you know, there's always help out there to try and improve. There are some resources available And that leads me to giving you some good news up front actually in a presentation in a webinar We actually have two Resources available. They're incredibly useful and really practical, especially the first part, which is the marketing with purpose playbook It really explores band brand values Investigates inclusive marketing activation strategies things around keywords lecture and use of language imagery It's from very handy checklist for accessible site design and research And it's a great sort of reference point and go-to place and these resources are available We'll make sure they are available and for everybody to download and have a little look through and we spent time building them But they really have been great resources in being able to reference how you can improve make some small small changes Maybe challenging your thinking and the second resource is a research study. We conducted and around the psychology behind inclusivity It's a fascinating output I'll be referencing some of the output from this study as we go through today as well There is a full version available It was done in 2020 and it was focused on Gen Z and I'll touch on that in the presentation as to as to why but the influence they have and the Influence they have around buying but also around values is really important. It's conducted around three phases looking at the Meaning of inclusion and actually break in inclusive marketing down again and exploring that concept around exclusion as well Thinking about the subconscious responses to advertising So we're looking at implicit association tests looking at a range of ads That we showed people that drove a reaction drove Engagement and actually showed what that and what that actually looks like and how it can be used to better marketing Then finally establishing the purchase intent of inclusive ads and this is really important I suppose all of us in the marketing capacity is we want engagement We want it to drive action drive value for our business and that's something that came out of it as well So I'm going to be referencing some of the output from this but not all of it is pretty extensive But again, it will be available to to use as well for everybody to reference have a little more of the stats that come through that So let me bring it back then to thinking about you know, what is marketing with purpose? And if you think about it trust really is at the heart and center of everything really when it comes to thinking about marketing with purpose You know trust really does drive business value Trust really does drive loyalty I really just drive love and affinity for a brand and that can really have an accelerator or multiplier effect really on the value It can drive your business, but it's not easy to build trust. So how do you build trust? So we're going to look at breaking things down into into three areas and try and help create a bit of a structure and take a closer look at each of them Responsibility so if you're thinking about it from a brand's perspective, how do you act? The values what do you stand for as a brand? What do you stand for in what you're doing an inclusion a huge part? You know, how are you actively involving everybody? How are you making it authentic? How you making those genuine connections with with individuals as well? Now then let's look at the first core building block to trust, which is responsibility Responsible means being transparent and everything you do There's quite a fragile as well as you think about it It's quite fragile exchange around transparency and trust and it can be easily broken It takes a while to gain up But it can be easily broken by by negativity by actions that aren't trustworthy So it's really important I think for brands to be responsible and be transparent and everything they do people want equitable Experiences not just compliance You know built or designed with everybody in mind whether it's product or a service Not just bill for one group in mind and others added on so for example if you're focusing on accessibility It's imperative because it opens up opportunities Bring those equitable experiences to all customers not just to certain groups Let's step in a little bit actually and to the Edelman trust barometer from 2020 Ethics are three times more important trusting a company than competence. That's really powerful stat when when you think about it You know, it's not just about what you offer It's actually all about what you stand for more than what you offer and we say there trust is not given or is not a given It really is in I think stats like this really do you know showcase the The mindset of individuals mindset of customers really does favor around that trust and trust in ethics part as well Let's look a little bit further And let's look a bit deeper only a third of advertisers Think that taking a social or political stance strengthens their relationship with customers Yet the 80% of people believe brands should play a role and solve in societal problems So that's a really interesting as both paradox coming up and there's a slight danger of a disconnect here potentially You know customers think that brands should take a stand and brands should engage But brands are a bit nervous maybe about this and actually a bit nervous by taking a stand The reality of what we're seeing coming out of that is that playing is safe Potentially is riskier than taking a stand Yet taking a stand is probably what holds a lot of brands back and that's really important and it's also not easy as well You know putting yourselves out there as a brand to take a stand for a social issue or a societal issue is not easy But it could have a very very positive impact And we see that come through as well 85% of customers say that they'll only consider a brand if they trust the brand Your trust is essential to driving business results. It's essential to be in a relationship with any customers Of course, it is worth remembering. There are varying degrees of trust. You know, people still do business with companies They may not necessarily trust a hundred percent People will make that trade-off. I think we understand that for sure. The world isn't perfect in that regard But perhaps once they're given an alternative and given an alternative to brand they trust They will move and they will take that action And as I said before I think we all understand that trust is not given. It really is earned by action I suppose in a marketing context one way of looking at this of course is around Privacy and data how we use customer data the value exchange we provide Transparency that's there as well. That's not a new concept for marketing But it's also, you know, still front and center that's really really important Now the second core building block to trust is values You know values really do drive value, which is something that comes out in the in the resources that we have And as a brand I shift your focus to consider what people actually value I mentioned at the start about energy and my values around family That'll be similar with other customers as well and have a really clear focus on on what it is that people actually value You can create more personal connections by investing in truly understanding people's values Go deep into diversity and be really open to uncovering new insights And finding new audiences that you may not have considered before That can drive even more value to a business even broader Bringing in broader and customers and bringing in a broader sort of range of opportunity as well Now I mentioned around Gen Z It formed a big part of the study that we did For a particular reason they have a big amount of influence at the moment You know a lot of it in terms of the wallet and how much they actually spend And they have serious sway with their parents as well I think we saw the 93 percent of parents take advice From this generation And this is a big signal, you know, they're giving us a very big clear signal about their consumer whiter They they value values and they engage with brands and connect with brands that Showcase that value clearly to them as well And centered in values is this concept around shared meaning Shared meaning between a person and a brand A trusting relationship that leads to loyalty longer term And I think as as brands are something I think everybody's looking for is how do we maintain and retain customers long term At the value that they will drive over that period of time So I suppose first make sure your brand is really clear in terms of its values You know, what is your mission on the planet? What is your benevolent brand attributes? Consider your sustainable business practices accessible business practices To uncover people's values go deep in diversity I think really explore I think about really exploring the many layers and dimensions of what make us diverse I think something we found a lot in in our sort of research and conversations is diversity As we know really goes beyond what you can see from an appearance point of view It goes beyond gender or just race Do you know what customers actually believe in? By considering people with disabilities Do you know your customers cultural influences like language education Location nationality And then finally how do you engage with people or spend their free time? What are their communication style? All these kind of go into making this concept or creating this concept around shared meaning And driving that deeper connection with with potential current or new customers as well And there are some really clear e-commerce signals in here as well In the study we found that Groups of individuals stopped purchasing from brands because it did not represent their values Yeah, this is actual behavior. This is what they actually did not what they said they would do But the action that they actually took and stopped purchasing So we see this really come through in Not just conceptually that we share values or we have a shared connection Or we don't have a shared connection That then leads to actually people not purchasing from from a particular brand and that's really important And I suppose it'd be wrong of me just to to sit up here and talk and say, you know What I will not talk about what Microsoft are doing in this space as I am nobody exempt from this and let's look at ourselves I think go back a few years when Sachin Didella became the CEO of Microsoft in 2014. He really reset our mission Very on in his role and our mission became you know empower every person and organization on the planet to achieve more You know to truly become a people centric brand it begins with culture You know our mission I suppose really ignited our cultural transformation Really delivered a shift in our business model from product centric to people centric You know, this mission really guides us makes us more inclusive We explored the concept around growing growth mindset really challenging Internally as employees and now we're all challenged as employees with diverse inclusion commitments as part of our supposed measurement or Or evaluation framework And it's really allowed us to be more authentic moving from a know it all culture to a learn it all culture And centred and focused really around people When we think about how do we bring diverse opinions diverse perspectives? This has really driven that that shift you know being more diverse getting different opinions thinking about things in different ways than we would have done previously and a good example of the the output of that really is One of the products that we created off the back of them, you know an important line on our mission statement is every person It challenges us as a company to ask the question Are we truly empowering every person? And it led to that cultural shift being more diverse inclusive Now we focused on one billion people with disabilities and the incredible opportunity to ensure we developed for them as well We came up with the xbox adaptive controller. It's one of those ideas It's a design that makes it easy for gamers to use their feet chin other parts of their body And adjust to any other accessible device as well It's driven a new approach in microsoft accessibility design And it's given us incredible opportunity by aligning our values and empowering everybody to achieve more There is a really good video that goes alongside this example, which I wasn't going to share today But I can make that link available for everybody to see or you can find it online as well But it's really worth looking at the story of how this came together And how it brought a group of individuals that may have felt excluded previously Really into that inclusion conversation. So it's a really good example So we're trying to to live this as well And as I said before we're always learning and thinking about different ways of things we can do But it's really driven from an internal cultural perspective as well So I've already talked about importance of responsible business practices And creating that shared meaning and understanding people by aligning to their values as well And I suppose the third and finally area that we've we've put into this framework is The building block around inclusion and how you can drive trust through through inclusion How you can use advertising to reach resonate and increase the chance that customers are looking not only When they see your ads, but they feel really understood they feel really connected And they feel really that it resonates strongly with them that they want to take an action when they see ads or communications from your brand You know people want inclusion not just to be included And I think this is both pausing because it's a really important element because we I think we see a lot of progression in terms of trying to drive more inclusion But actually it's it's beyond just simple things. It's beyond just the things that perhaps tick boxes It's not about doing things like multicultural marketing. It goes much deeper than that You need to think about what you market who you market to and how you market with an inclusive lens So I wanted to pause on that and just think about inclusion in a in a little bit more detailed The story of inclusion Does evolve for each of us over over time At some point the reality is we have a real sense of inclusion from when we're a lot younger But that does get to a point where we do feel that sense of exclusion In many different ways or in various different ways could be through skin color gender sexual preference confidence levels No sense of belonging or something else And I think what we found and and hear from some of the work that we've done is to really understand Inclusion you first needs to really explore and understand how it feels to be excluded in a meaningful way I know that really did help drive the Xbox adaptive controller example I shared previously But I think it's a concept perhaps that isn't Always thought about you know, we know we want to be more inclusive But had you really understand what being inclusive is can you understand that concept of exclusion as well? So let me reference back to the study as well I'll research and cover the brands representing diversity in their ads are more authentic and are more trustworthy Yeah, there are supporting stats which showcase this and showcase that seeing diversity in ads Drives trust in a brand overall and that's really something that we're trying to all strive for is You know, how do we increase that trust? How do we be more authentic? But we know it drives a lot of value and I think this proves from that concept We also uncover that when someone sees an inclusive ad it also signals that the brand is either a market leader And it really increases their likelihood to Recommend that brand as well We're talking that concept around advocacy Customer advocacy It's very ROI positive when it comes to marketing But it's hard to achieve in some cases, but in this case It can have some real positive positive results as well And it's definitely worth calling out that Authenticity and being genuine is absolutely key to building trust in all of this Keep this in mind as you're thinking about and creating marketing campaigns Communication campaigns with With potential new customers or current customers I think brand simply saying We're going to do something without backing it up with action It's really unlikely to lead to a really positive outcome over a longer period of time perhaps You know people really do see through in authenticity. I think people are much more prepared to call it out now Platforms like social media have been great for many things and for other things. They're not very good But they do allow a voice. They do allow people to communicate And I think without really driving and really thinking about that or authenticity piece You can be called out on it And it is hard and it is difficult and we'll touch on that in a second We'll touch on that in a second. Inclusive marketing can be really daunting for advertisers You know advertisers fear taking the stand will potentially alienate some customers But coming back to the point I made earlier people believe brands shouldn't play a role in solving societal problems And there are some steps you can take today to create great inclusion in your advertising And I think like as I said the playbook actually references some some real ideas and options and things that you can go into a bit more detail But just to summarise I think what you say and the images you include really matter It sounds really obvious, but it is actually very true But there are ways of showcasing perhaps inclusivity and being more authentic than just ticking boxes for example So as a recipe to have inclusivity really resonates we wanted to break this down and think about three things Depicting connection that the idea of physical closeness You know it is really undeniably human and does help create that warm connection And being realistic is key Interesting enough you know over-representing in some way sometimes can be worse than under-representing for authenticity Demonstrate openness on multiple fronts People of all abilities mix sizes race show broad acceptance And then crucially I suppose is balance Equity create a level playing field Now everybody is featured with equal prominence multiple dimensions of diversity are represented All this helps create more emotional connection to the image And in actually the study that in actually our playbook and in the study as well The research study I mentioned as well It showcases how this connection and this connection with images really does drive additional value Additional engagement in terms of uplift metrics but also additional value to the business as well So it's really important this is a very simple framework but within this there's more depth that can be Can be gone into but it does really drive value So I might recap a little bit here and say you know today we've we've read three important strategies The error and responsibility values inclusion with trust to the Absolute heart of it and throughout the presentation kind of touched on five steps that can really help you build trust That drives greater business value and drives greater value for the brand as well So in kind of short summary I'd say start by actively engaging with people around trust Privacy and transparency You know ensure that ensure you base all of your actions on responsible business practices I suppose secondly I suppose secondly Shift your company from being a product centric to people centric We saw this has worked very well for Microsoft And I think it's probably worked well for other brands as well Putting people at the center of things ensure you go deep into diversity Uncovering what people value And we really ask those hard questions around you know, are we truly being diverse? Have we have we asked different opinions if we're putting together a campaign or we're doing a brainstorm Do we have diversity internally and are we representing diversity in our you know marketing as well? And then lastly and I really see inclusion as a as a modern marketing imperative name Brands who consider inclusion In advertising really do create authentic connections and this can drive real value I suppose another way to think about it is you're marketing the purpose is the difference between earning a customer for a day and gaining a customer for life If you really get it right and you really lean it lean into those concepts you really can Drive that multiplier effect that leads to love and loyalty over a period of time And the more you include people make them be seen and understood The more they invest back in the form of brand love and loyalty as I mentioned And just to recap and remind as well like I said, I've touched on resources today which are available There's lots more detail in them to help help educate it goes into the concepts I've talked about today in a little bit more detail The stats and information that comes out of this ecology and inclusion is is really interesting and can really perhaps help Drive some new thinking And drive some thought process thought-provoking action for sure Um, happily. Please message me on linkedin if you if you want to have a look for me with any questions That that might come up if you don't get a chance to ask them in the q&a If you want a bit more information on What we've done or links to the resources by all means, please feel free to message out and I'll engage with you there I suppose just want to wrap up and say just thank you very much for listening and watching I hope that really added some value I hope you've got your thinking as well. I suppose just a reminder. This is a journey And it can feel uncomfortable at times and it can feel difficult when you're thinking how do we put this into play or are we doing enough or You know, what should we be doing differently? And all I'd say is be brave You know, think about how this starts internally within your own teams within yourselves You know purpose What are the purpose of your teams purpose of your brands? And how does that come across then to in the marketing and advertising you do but also the products that you design as well They have to be linked. There's an opportunity there to reach new audiences to think about being inclusive And it's a brave journey, but it's a journey that that can really lead to some Some great rewards and some great great connections with with individuals and with people you may not have already had connection with so Thank you again for listening and if that's added some value, then I'll be really pleased. So thank you very much Okay, great. That's excellent. Thanks very much, Ben for really insightful presentation So we're now going to have a short Q&A session Okay, so first question Do you think it's easier for smaller or larger brands to take a clear stand on social issues or are there The same challenges for both Yeah, I think there are probably our similar challenges for both I think, you know, we tend to perhaps reference, you know, bigger brands because maybe they have more influence or they maybe have more and sway in Given the size of giving the scale or given the the scope of some of the bigger brands But I think, you know, every brand is probably going to ask themselves that Question of, you know, what is our purpose? What are our values and how do they How do they align to potentially leaning in on some of these social issues? So I think it's not beyond any brand to ask those questions It's not beyond any any brand big or small to think what difference they could make Of course, there are, you know, bigger brands have maybe a bigger platform to To market that and to PR that maybe but it doesn't perhaps stop everybody doing their bit And I think if there are opportunities to To think about how a brand can lean into those social issues, then Big or small, I think it's everyone has that opportunity and can take that action really Okay, great So there's a question and a supplementary really so inside an organization who should really own And drive purpose and the follow-up is how do you use your purpose to motivate your team And the people within the organization So who's this is a really interesting one because I think they might get different perspectives depending on who you ask And I think from from what I've read and what I've listened to I think purpose When it's done best and when it's done right comes from within from everybody so it allows everybody that opportunity to Engage and have their voice heard when they think about purpose and coming up with that statement I think just having it as a top-down Perhaps isn't always the best now. I know in the reference. I usually we talked about it came perhaps from sat here but I think that was with a lot of you know input and a lot of Perspectives heard in that regard. So I think again, you know coming from within allowing You know, if you're within a small team and you're thinking about you know, what is our team purpose? What is what is our marketing team purpose? For example Yeah, that can come from everybody can come from within can come from listening to all of those all of those perspectives and I suppose that then resonates perhaps into how do you motivate people around that I think if individuals or team members have a a feeling that their voice has been heard that their input has been taken into account and that they Feel part of that purpose themselves because they have created that's that element of perhaps connection within a team or within an organization They can really drive that motivation. So You know, I'm sure there are examples of top-down sort of purpose and people perhaps rallying around that But I think maybe the best option is to think more inclusively and think right How do we bring diverse opinions from within? Build that purpose up from within and that perhaps helps with our second part of the question I think around motivation of getting into you know Getting a team aligned around a purpose because they've had a had a viewpoint into it and have an opportunity to to feed into it All right, that makes sense. Okay. Um How do you manage a branding situation where the audience has lost faith in the brand? Wow, good question I think in that regard, yeah, look, it's not easy, right? I think in that regard There does need to be a reset. There needs to be a A reevaluation of what the brand stands for again going back to that purpose what we talked about earlier Um, you know, where do things go wrong? Perhaps if things really have have, you know, find some difficult situations or find find that brand to find themselves in a difficult position And how can that brand then reset and go again and perhaps again listen to feedback take perspectives on board Reestablish the mission or sorry reestablish the purpose and then build build some goals and plans around that to suppose Phoenix from the flames, I know we come back in Into the consciousness and and perhaps win back trust You know trust has been broken. It does take a while to win back And as I mentioned around your transparency and building that and framework around Around that trust element again. It will take time. Um, but I think the reality is perhaps thinking about Um, as I said, you know, where are things perhaps not gone? Well I'm working a brand and reevaluate reasset its purpose And come out with more positivity around that. But yeah, it's a difficult challenge, of course But you know, probably not impossible There's one or two sort of questions around authenticity This one's like sums up really some customers and media can be cynical when it comes to ads showing diversity It can appear like tokenism. So how does a marketer? Introduce diversity into ads without it appearing like tokenism Yeah, absolutely. I think in this regard, that's the danger. I don't think I referenced it as well as you know people can see past where you know, you just ticking boxes and I think I would look at it in the sense of where does this start from? Does it start from does that conversation start from within the team when it comes to Putting the marketing plan together the idea the creative idea and really creating space to challenge how How are we representing diversity in this in this campaign and how does that connect to our values as a brand? Perhaps where it's seen as inauthentic is where it's just a token gesture. There's no Seemingly that isn't part of that brand's culture. That isn't part of perhaps what they're Talking about or how they're acting or behaving Whereas when it is linked as I mentioned around to their to their values into their And to their purpose it becomes more authentic and that can come through in from the internal culture How are brands putting together these like I said these campaigns? How are they really challenging? And inclusivity and the concepts around diversity To then put it through then into Interactive campaigns and into marketing The reality is if you can't stand behind it and you can't stand behind What you're preaching or what you're saying or what you're representing in your ads? Then it's time to relook back at that and think actually we need to start building this again from within So that it can can shine through we are being accessible. We are being inclusive We are listening to different viewpoints listening to different opinions We really understand our customers We understand what their values are what it means to them and how we then represent that In our ads rather than as we said unfortunately times how are we just showcasing perhaps a tick box exercise in in some of the creative outputs? So if it exists within culturally and exists within the thinking of the team and the creativity Within the team around thinking of different perspectives and gathering information And I suppose the the last point I would add to that would be If you are say you're a marketing team and you're thinking of right. This is going to be our concept How can you showcase that somebody and say not is this inclusive? But how does it make that person feel from different perspectives from different backgrounds? Is it resonating does it resonate that could be an opportunity to check point before anything has gone live but If it doesn't represent what the brand stands for and the values of that brand it will start Seamless as in authentic Thank you. So this next question is a bit of a challenge for you Ben Hi, I work for care home charity Where our beneficiaries are mainly right affluent people. How can I push the inclusivity message? Yes, it's a challenge because you obviously bought your representatives that the you know, you know who your customers currently are I suppose the question would be is, you know, who could your customers be? and It's a star Virginia, right? This is our customer mix now and there's nothing wrong with that customer mix at all But how could you start to perhaps think about who we want? Who could our customers of the future be or who could an alternative viewpoint? I'm perhaps thinking about Again resetting is to okay. Let's look internally. Why why is this our current customer base? Is there a particular reason is that you know link to location? Is it linked to historical? and customer customers that we've had Is it links about you know, how does it have how does our staff set up look like are we being inclusive in Perhaps the people we hire and the back backgrounds that we hire from and is that you know causing that thinking? So it's a big challenge and I really appreciate the question. I've probably not given you the exact answer So that challenge but what I would say is perhaps think about How have you got to the stage you are right now? And could you be more diverse by thinking of what are the customers we could be trying to talk to or the Sorry customers, I don't know. What are the individual we could be or families we could be trying to talk to? And I'll be representing inclusivity truly and everything that we're doing ourselves to then acquire perhaps new or different Customers from what you have at the minute. So yes, you have to respect who you currently have and who your base is right now I suppose think about maybe Looking internally and saying how did we get to this place and how could we perhaps pivot and change To a side to a additional direction or a different direction just an additional direction to perhaps represent More inclusivity in the customers who have and who perhaps is working there as well There's a few people asking does this equally apply to b2b as well as b2c? Yeah, I think if you're talking to You're talking to people talking to individuals And therefore there is an opportunity for for connection the product or service in a b2b environment You know should also be considered very inclusive and I think as we're building sort of human connections with individuals That's in the b2c environment. We're also in a b2b environment But if you know you're building products and services you know, are they inclusive are they? really, you know, are they? You know feature proofed in that concept and that have they been designed with with everybody in mind and not just with Some people in mind or like I said if you're dealing with a business then, you know You're also dealing with people at that business and are you able to create that that connection? and have brands that have equal Equal values and equal shared meaning together rather than being a customer brand relationship It's a brand brand or a business business relationship. So I think absolutely why why, you know, they could why couldn't they be really? And we've got so many questions Still left to ask but we are running out of time. So there's there's probably time for a couple more Um, and this is I think it's the theme that's developed with one or two of our viewers today Um, I understand that consumers feel it is important for brands to play a part in solving societal issues But do you ever think this is beyond what business and brands should be doing and making them lose focus? So, you know, can you actually take it too far? I guess Um, you know speaking on see I I don't know. I think you know, it's just It's a really tricky question in the concept of you know, how far is too far? I think that, you know, establishing You know, if we listen to people we listen to to customers. We listen to the generation that You know, the future generation they they want this they want brands to Take a stand to get involved with What is too far? I think we're exploring that aren't we? I don't know what that answer is right now in this context But I think doing nothing from what we've heard and read in the the information we've gathered Doing nothing is Is riskier than doing something and it's just a question of thinking of you know, what how much can brands do You know, where can they build a plan or or a strategy to To engage from a corporate and social responsibility point of view But what I'd say is rather than saying How much is too much? Maybe think about it from a concept of not doing enough is Or not doing anything is not doing enough and that's the risk that potentially taking is by By perhaps not thinking about that and not leaning in in some way. It's riskier than and You know, actually doing something and taking an action So it's really hard to quantify exactly what What is too much? Okay, um, just one final question then and I guess um, there are a number of Viewers today who maybe at the start point on this journey So the question is how do brands start their journey around purpose and marketing with purpose? I think that first First point around what is our purpose? You know, if you're on that journey and and many brands are That's iterates over time But really establishing what is our purpose? You know, I mentioned at the start that that becomes your north star I've heard that mentioned not just in my context, but in other contexts as well You know, that's your starting point. Perhaps is is how do we get to that point? What is our purpose? Brands perhaps go back to that question before brands you've lost their way You've lost that connection with their purpose. They've maybe lost that purpose. So to start the journey Definitely, you know get ideas together Bring people in internally from different departments and think about building that that purpose out and identifying In a simplistic or simply as possible. What is our purpose? And then start to build everything towards that I mentioned around you the decisions we make how does it link back to that purpose I've heard that used in different contexts from from business to to sports or other other areas as well But conceptually it makes sense. So every decision we're making is linked to that purpose And that then will help trigger the journey and how you build plans off around that because if you're able then to to answer that question Does this align to our purpose? Does it help our decision making? Does it bring us back to what our purpose is? then Then that's going to put you in a much better place than they're not having it How do you start that? It's being brave and saying, you know challenging the current purpose or the current That's both vision, you know and being prepared to say i'm not sure this is working or I think we could do a better job I think we do a different job Let's um, let's sit down and really really brainstorm but but think about bringing in those diverse opinions and those diverse actions Okay, great. Thanks ben. Um, that's really great. So um, I mean the number of questions that we've got and answered I'm looking at here We could probably go on for another half an hour to an hour I suspect but sadly that's all the time we have for our webinar today So, um, I'd like to say thank you again to ben for today's presentation Um and to ciam wales for organizing the event. We do hope that you're found it interesting and worthwhile We'll be back with our next webinar express the social good in pandora's box on thursday the 17th of february At 1 p.m. You'll find further details listed on the events page on the ciam website where you'll also be able to register for the session So on behalf of ciam, thank you once again ben for a really good presentation And I thank you to you for joining us Enjoy the rest of your day and we look forward to welcoming you again to our webinars in the near future. Take care everybody. Goodbye