 Call to order. This is the 23rd regular meeting of the 2010 2011 Common Council and as is customary our city clerk Sue Richards will read the quote of the evening. Thank you, Mayor All of life is a journey which paths we take what we look back on and what we look forward to is up to us We determine our destination what kind of road we will take to get there and how happy we are when we get there Little fluffy on the court tonight From the little book of happiness So here I have for you the Presidential wit and wisdom quotes that I'd like to give you just so everybody knows I promised you this two years ago This does stay within the $5 gift lock because I bought it from the used bookstore for four bucks Oh Please here Decker Excuse Here Kittleson here Montemay or here in flesh Racelor here Samson here Vander wheel there versey air and long a minute We have a quorum now if we can all join Alder person Vander wheel in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all Thank You Jody looking for approval of the minutes of the prior Common Council meeting president Kittleson Thank You, Mayor I move to approve the minutes of the last council meeting second. We have a motion in a second to approve the minutes under discussion There is no discussion all in favor say aye. Aye opposed motion carries mayors appointments attorney McLean Member members of the council hereby submit the following appointments for your consideration Jane Coulter to be considered for appointment to the mayor's international committee term to expire 425 2011 Kerry Coulter to be considered for appointment to the mayor's International term to expire 425 2011 signed by the mayor Thank You Steve under discussion any questions on these candidates for the mayor's international committee There is none roll call, please Well, we need a motion to approve Thank You mayor. I'd make a motion to approve the appointments We have a motion in a second to approve the appointments now. Is there any discussion if there is no roll call, please Foreign I bulk I Bowers Hammond I Hannah I Vitamin I got I Kittleson I Montemay or I Rinflaich I racelor I Samson I van der wheel I Versi I and Wonderman 15 eyes Motion carries Okay, sorry about that. I forgot something in my office Is Laura greeny here this evening Laura if you can come up front please Sorry about that. Laura. I almost forgot you in my office there, sir Ms. Greeny is the With the Sheboygan County WIC project. She's a nutritionist in the Wisconsin Dietetic Association president this year This is a proclamation from my office Whereas registered dietitians are the food and nutrition experts who can translate the science of nutrition into practical solutions for healthy living And registered dietitians have degrees in nutrition Dietetics public health or a related field from well-respected accredited colleges and universities completed an internship and passed an examination and Registered dietitians use their nutrition expertise to help individuals make unique positive lifestyle changes, which is always good and Registered dietitians work through community in hospitals schools public health clinics nursing homes fitness centers food management food industry universities research and private practice and Registered dietitians are advocates for advancing the nutritional status of Americans and people around the world Now therefore I Bob Ryan by virtue and of the authority Invested in me as mayor of the city of Sheboygan do hereby proclaim March 9th 2011 as registered dietitian day And this is for you ma'am. Would you like to say a couple words on behalf of myself and my fellow RDS I want to thank the mayor and the Common Council for this proclamation and I also want to acknowledge that besides registered dietitian day March is also National Nutrition Month So you have a whole month to develop good healthy eating habits And you know where to find advice if you need it in my case I'm just about two blocks over in the Health and Human Services building So again, I want to thank you on behalf of myself and my fellow RDS And it's very hard to disagree with anybody with shamrocks on their shirts Okay, moving on public forum no one this evening Mayor's announcements could be a long council meeting this evening with a couple issues, so we'll pass on those tonight Consent agenda president Kittleson Thank you mayor, I move that all our C's be accepted and adopted all our O's accepted and placed on file and all Resolutions and ordinances Second we have a motion and a second on the consent agenda under discussion There's no discussion roll call, please bulk Bowers hi, Hannon. Hi, Hanna. Hi to me. Hi. Hi, Kittleson. Hi, Montemay or I rinse like hi Racer hi Samson. Hi, Vander wheel. Hi, Versey. Hi, Wonkman and born hi 15 motion carries Reports of officers to 2316 by the city clerk submitting various license applications President Kittleson Need a motion to accept a motion. I'd like to make a motion to accept and file And approve the licenses Still second we have a motion in a second Accept and file and approve the licenses under discussion There's no discussion roll call, please Bowers. Hi Hammond hi Hanna hi to men hi Kittleson hi Montemay or I rinse like hi racer. Hi Samson. Hi Vander wheel. Hi, Versey Hi, Wonkman. Hi, Warren. Hi and bulk 15 eyes motion carries 2317 through 2327 to be referred Ordinance is introduced three 2328 through 2324 with the exception of 2332 to be referred 2332 will lie over until the next councilman Report of committee 62335 by law and licensing recommending denying taxicab driver's license number 8936 based upon her record of violations and public safety concerns vice president Rindfleisch Thank you, your honor. I asked the report a committee be accepted and adopted We have a motion in a second to accept and adopt Thank you, your honor. The applicants was denied based on the record of violations And some new history that came to light after her application. So the committee decided to deny at that point Thank you vice president Rindfleisch under discussion There is no discussion roll call, please Hammond hi Hanna hi to men hi Kittleson hi Montemay or I rinse like hi racer. Hi Samson. Hi Vander wheel up staying Versi hi Excuse me born hi bulk and bowers 14 eyes one abstention motion carries 2336 by public works recommending filing document submitting a communication from the Gus Macker Tournament chairman requesting that the boys and girls club Be granted permission to host 2011 Gus Macker three-on-three basketball tournament at DeLand Park on August 47th and approving the request Public works Alderman born Thank You Mayor Ryan. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted second We have a motion in a second to accept and adopt under discussion There is no discussion roll call, please Hanna hi Heidemann hi hi Kittleson hi Montemay or hi Rindfleisch hi Racler hi Samson hi Vander wheel hi versi hi Wongamon hi Warren hi oh Bowers hi and Hammond hi 15 eyes motion carries Reports of committee seven 2337 by law and licensing recommending granting various licenses vice president Rindfleisch Oh, thank you, your honor I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted and the license be granted We have a motion in a second to accept and adopt and grant the licenses under discussion There's no discussion roll call, please I know in I cut I Kittleson hi Montemay or hi Rindfleisch Racler hi Samson hi Vander wheel hi versi hi Wongamon hi Warren hi Bowers hi Hammond hi and Hannah hi 15 eyes motion carries 2338 by law and licensing recommending denying taxicab driver's license number 8954 based upon his record of violations Related to the licensed activity and his failure to include all relevant convictions on his application Vice president Rindfleisch. Thank you, your honor. I asked that I moved with the report of committee be accepted and adopted We have a motion in a second to accept and adopt Thank you. I believe that the description explains it all However, just to add that there were the convictions did include Burglary items and we felt that the public safety's interests not to grant a license to a test cab driver had burgerly was important Thank You vice president Rindfleisch. We have a motion in a second under discussion There's no discussion roll call, please Cough hi Kittleson hi Montemay or hi Rindfleisch hi Racler hi Samson hi Vander wheel hi Versi hi Wongamon Warren hi Bulk Bowers hi Hammond hi Hannah hi and Heidemann hi 15 Motion carries report of committee 8 23 Finance recommending entering into an agreement for consultative services from the Center for Political Science and Public Health Policy research from the University of Wisconsin Whitewater to perform a two-phase analysis for the city of Sheboygan Alderman Hammond, thank you your honor. I Move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted and the resolution be put upon its passage We have a motion in a second to accept and adopt to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion Thank you. We have Susan and Jolly from the University of Wisconsin Whitewater that are here to entertain any questions that the council may have on how the process may go their credentials those types of things so I would Ask that they'd be able to come forward and we have a motion to open the floor then motion open We have a motion in several seconds to open the floor all in favor say aye opposed ladies, please You may be you may want to be you never know We faced Councils before where our students have actually been on the council and so that's really turned about when you've got kids Who are in your classes, and then they're the ones asking you the question so I'm Susan Johnson, and this is my colleague jolly emory and We're from UW Whitewater, and we're going to talk about the project that we've been asked to propose Regarding some some help that we could provide for the city of shabuigan So I'm going to turn it over to my colleague, and she's going to give you some background on our center and also Talk about phase one of the project, and then I will talk about phase two and while she begins I'm going to pass out a folder for each of the council members that has Information about our center and also a copy of the presentation Okay, I have a couple lights up here, which I'm going to turn off for the moment If you know we'll go through the presentation, and then we'll have we'll entertain questions afterward if that works for everybody Okay, hi, I'm jolly and What Susan is passing out to you right now are packets that include information about us and about the center What we do at the center is we provide a variety of services to local governments Such as shabuigan. We've done two projects so far with Jamesville and the city of Whitewater We've been contacted by other cities to do a variety of projects But what our area of expertise is as a center is the construction execution analysis of survey results We also do evaluations, which means we evaluate existing programs We are capable of evaluating best practices so we can analyze organizations and organizational structure and We can also provide through that analysis some recommendations of organizational change if that's what Cities or other governments are looking for we also provide opportunities for undergraduate research That's a big push for us as a center at the University of Wisconsin Whitewater to give students the opportunity to get some hands-on experience We have a thriving public administration program. It's full of undergraduates, but they do go on many of them to either go to a graduate school to get their master's in public administration or they go immediately into some sort of City administrative type of job or other types of public administration positions With respect to the first phase of the program What we plan to do and there's some description in there, too But phase one is basically first learning some history about the city of Sheboygan what your organizational structure is I know that you have several departments and Susan and I did a little bit of homework trying to figure out What the organizational structure is of the various departments and agencies within the city? Excuse me We didn't find a lot of information online So the first part would be gathering information from various people within the city who could provide us with Some sort of charts that might show us what the flow of information is communication Whether they're hierarchically arranged or if they're more lateral In that respect and then what we also plan to do because sometimes there are a little bit of differences or Reinforcement perhaps is talk to directly interview directly people in a variety of positions in city government here So we would talk to the key stakeholders in a variety of the agencies that you have and then also you know people who are Sort of at the street level so to speak and we also are interested in doing some focus group Evaluation gathering some data in that way then what we would like to do after we gather all this information so the historical data the current data with regard to your operations and then the Feedback that we get the interviews and the focus group is to do an analysis And provide you with a thorough analysis of what is taking place in terms of your organization from there We would look at some best practices. There are a lot of Innovative ideas that are taking place in municipal governments throughout the country and so we would do some Comparisons with cities of similar size similar as similar as possible demographics and industry and the like and Provide you with Some recommendations based upon that In phase one. We'd also provide you of course with an electronic copy as well as hard copies of whatever analysis we Come up with and so Susan is going to talk to you now about phase two So phase two of the project involves a citizen Satisfaction survey and The goal of that would be to gain feedback on city services and also get an idea of what the residents of Sheboygan What they like what they don't like what they like to see changed perhaps What they're familiar with that the city offers and what perhaps you're offering that they're not aware of so we do a Whole range of things and coming up with a survey of the residents And so the first thing that we would do in very close collaboration with the city would be to come to put together the questionnaire And it's really important that we work in collaboration because you know your city Much better than we do obviously and so we're going to do our best to learn as much as we can but in terms of looking at the information that you want to together we would work with city staff and Council members etc to get a sense of what it is that you want to know from the citizen So we would design the questionnaire to identify citizen priorities and preferences and then move forward from there After we have the questionnaire Completed then we would move on to actual execution of the survey and what we will what we are planning on is a male survey That would and the preliminary numbers that we talked about were a sample size of 1500 people Male survey and the goal would be to get as representative a sample as possible of the city so 1500 as an initial mailing might all for a city this size But if you look at most polls the poll that just came out actually today in regard to People's views about the budget repair bill it had a sample size of 600 and something So what we're hoping is that we put a sample out We put a sample size out there of 1500 and then the average response rate tends to be between 10 and 25 percent So we can do things to strategize to try to get us up to where we're getting you know three or four hundred Responses back and then we want to ensure that that's a representative sample of the population and if it comes back But it's not a representative sample lots of times surveys. They skew older Sometimes they skew more female sometimes they skew Whiter and so we have methodology that we can use and we have these in the past to then make sure that whatever we get back We can adjust so that it adequately reflects the demographic distribution in the city of Suboigan and after the surveys are mailed out and then we get them back then we will engage in I'm entering all the data and then analyzing the data and when we've done this in the past We've basically turned the sort of just the very preliminary information back to the the city and said okay Here's the preliminary very preliminary data What else do you want to see and then at that point if you if you pick up on something you say hey We want to see we want to see why this group is saying one thing and another group is saying another thing or why are older people Filling one way we can then dig down in the data based on what it is that you're seeing from the initial look at the results And then we can go further and provide you what you want in in that regard and then we'll write up a formal report and Submit that to you and also provide a public presentation of the findings and then get Feedback and then once that process is over then we will produce a Final report and then we've also been asked to take phases one and two and Bring them together and so what we would do in that final report would be to take what we found in phase one of the project and then look at how that compares with What we found in phase two of the project and then roll that all up together in our final report that has general recommendations and observations based on what we found in both phases of the Presentation and then we'd be happy to come back up here and present to the council or present in other formats that You deem appropriate so for example when we worked with the city of We presented to their planning commission because we were helping them with their strategic plan And then we also presented to the full council and then we also came and we met we met with just the senior Administrative staff so we did the three presentations for Whitewater okay as one example, so I'm gonna leave we were asked to speak a few minutes So I'm gonna now end my presentation and tolly and I are happy to take all of your questions Okay Thank You professors Do we have any questions from the council you can buzz in at any time here? Alderman bulk thank you, miss mayor If you could just talk for a minute. I was a big skeptic of this Survey and this recommendation in in finance committee But after talking to the two doctors if you could just talk about If you could just talk about your I was skeptical about why are we gonna have a couple of PhDs do organizational design work for us So if you could talk about that your background in that that would help Well, I've had both academic and applied background with regard to organizational behavior and organizational design as a graduate student I worked with someone at Emory University where I went to grad school and this was During welfare reform and so basically what we did was we studied Georgia and all the various partners involved in Welfare in Georgia and because of welfare reform as you all know W2, Wisconsin led the way kind of for all the change we worked with county and city governments to Help them understand Devolution in terms of policy and then how to make organizational changes so that they were more collaborative And then what we also did and this again is a little dated But we worked with we compared what was going on in Atlanta Which is an empowerment zone city that had to deal with welfare reform with other empowerment zone cities across the nation and so Looking again at agencies how they were changing their models in terms of organization and More with respect to welfare reform and collaboration on the academic side I've taught organizational behavior We have as I said before a public administration program at UW Whitewater I taught organizational behavior as a general organizational behavior class when I was at California State University Jealous which is where I was before I came here and I love Wisconsin. I'm so happy to be here as opposed to LA and So I've taught it from that perspective as a Organizational behavior course and then I teach here at UW Whitewater Course on criminal justice administration and much of what we do is look at organizational behavior So I've had both academic and applied Experience with respect to that My experience in this area is not as extensive as dr. Emery's but I Did some work with the city of Whitewater When they were first working on their strategic plan about five or six years ago and Kevin Brunner first became city manager He asked me to to how to work with them More as a town gown kind of thing so I wasn't I wasn't being paid I was just helping them and going in working with them on that and then also I coordinate our public administration program and my degrees from Northern Illinois University and I took some I worked with some faculty there when I was in my master's program and PhD program That were in the public administration program and so that's my background But clearly dr. Emery has more experience in in that regard and I hope to bring more to the survey side Thank you all the person left me Thank You. Mr. Mayor. I think it's wonderful that we're going to have an outside professional Group looking at us and telling us how we can do things better and the part that I especially like is The non-biased questionnaire because no matter how hard we all worked every one of our questions would be biased in some manner And I really think that's important To find out what the citizens truly like without the bias of myself or any one of us Asking the question and I'm also glad to hear that we're going to get some preliminary numbers and some preliminary Presentations, I think that's important so that we don't wait until autumn to get the final thick book I think the preliminary is very helpful Thank you all the person out there Alderman Hammond Thank You. Mr. Mayor To kind of dovetail with Alderman Montemare was saying is part of the reason we went down and visited with Jolly and Susan was to or vice versa The University of Wisconsin Whitewater was to We needed somebody that could give us an unbiased independent look But one of the things we've asked them to do is part of this is not to be nice is to be very hard and Give us recommendations that we can take and implement right away We've all been part of these studies where you give you they give you a binder and they stick it on the you stick it on The shelf and never to be seen again So that's what we're expecting out of this survey is kind of a Facts no-hold bar kind of of results that we can take and implement Just a quick question. We had discussed the timeline of one June for phase one Sometime August to have the survey done and the results to us. Is that something you feel is still achievable? I think with regard to phase one it depends upon how quickly the historical information gets to us and then the you know The current which we'd also get from our interviews. So setting that up So sometime in June whether or not we would meet that June one again is Predicated to some degree on getting that other information Certainly in terms of the survey that is very doable. So no concerns about that date It's just you know sometime in June June one will obviously be Predicated on how quickly you get the other information and the interviews completed. Great. Thanks And if you need testimonials that we can be not nice I can get you dozens I think from our end we should probably have a point person in the city For for you to go to if this is approved which we will do and I think he's sitting in this room Okay Okay, all the person kiddleson president kiddleson. Thank you mayor. Thank you I just wanted to say it was wonderful to visit with these ladies Um, it was a great visit to whitewater and the project in whitewater was in 2009 I believe correct and and what I like about and you did this also for the the Janesville police department. I get what I like is that the they stated that the project went so smoothly and And again as the other alderman have said that we are able to use the information that you're going to give us And I think that that's really So important that we're able to use that information that it doesn't sit on the shelf But that we can utilize it. So thank you Thank you president kiddleson alderman board Thank You very Ryan Dr. Emery can I notice you have a testimony Testimonial in here from the police chief over in Janesville And I'm just wondering if you could just run through a little bit how that process went with the police department and kind of what some of your recommendations were and I'm not you know I'm not saying that those recommendations are working should wake them But just give it some kind of an idea of the process how it went right not to be misleading that a survey was Done on behest to the chief of police who was fairly new to Janesville and what he wanted to do was get a sense of Really what the citizens in Janesville thought of the police department? So it was more of a citizen satisfaction survey than it was any sort of organizational change. So we didn't study The organization as much as we studied What kind of services they provide and what citizens thought with respect to the police department and their delivery of those services And where they thought Future problems might be and the kinds of things that they would like to see the police department Provide more of in terms of community outreach and those kind of things So it wasn't necessarily about their organization how it works, but we did give them some information with respect to How citizens perceived the police within various areas in the city so Thank you. Sure Thank You Alderman barn vice president rent flesh. Thank you, your honor Two-part question really just speaking to phone calls. I've received from constituents and their concerns really to like I said two part First is the 18,000 as an investment I'm being the taxpayers Investment, what can they expect to return? What kind of return can they expect on that investment? and the second product question is Also constituent based What exactly can you find out versus through a survey that we as elected officials who are in theory in tune with our Situants on unable to provide In terms, I'll ask I'll answer the the second question first as social scientists and I What we can do is kind of is is develop a tool that will help you gain Information from your citizens in an unbiased way as a couple people have have mentioned and also It's going to help us help you Look at yourself as it compares to other you know like size cities and things like that and and ask questions that other people have Asked in other places and it allows you to sort of set yourself and you know Where do you where do you see yourself in in comparison to other cities? And I think I think that it's a it's a fair question I mean to say well, you know, we were out there We talked to people all the time and how is it any different well in our survey methodology The idea is that we're going to try to do our best to get the best cross-section We can of Sheboygan and that might be the people who are contacting you for example They're probably very committed to the city and they have a big stake in the city but we're going to try to get a broader look at people in Sheboygan and Provide you with information that you might not be getting from people who stop you on the street or who pick up The phone and call you or who's might send you an email So I think that our sample is going to be better than kind of a man on the street You know what I mean or a phone call sort of thing in terms of the cost The the work is very well first of all the part of the money will go to higher students Okay, because this Jolly said we do higher students to help us with some of the research And then also with data entry and report preparation So some of that some of the money goes to higher students So it's part of our commitment to helping with undergraduate research and things like that also Some of the cost has to do with the with the distance And so we're factoring in some of the travel costs for us to come up here several times to do interviews and then also to to come and present the findings and things like that and then the work is it's very labor-intensive and so When we're doing things like you know data entry and analysis and report writing it it takes a lot of time and And so having done it, you know ever since I was in graduate school in the you know early 90s through now, there's just no quick way to quicker way to enter surveys and do the analysis and talk about it and do the research and so it's just it's a lot of labor, you know in a lot of hours and And I mean and we can we can say to you that you know We we have worked most recently with Jamesville and with whitewater and they were very you know happy with our work And we we do step on time so we don't have problems with You know not getting the stuff done and I feel that you know both the city manager and the police chief that we worked with would you know Offer more testimonials to to that so Please thank you. I have no doubt that the the 18,000 be well spent on the students. I guess the further question then is Explaining to those constituents. We're spending 18,000. What are we getting in return that will be worth more than 18,000? Okay, vastly more than 18,000. I'm sure but sure so one of the one of the things that we've been asked to do is to look at your Organizational structure and look at where there might be overlap for example, or look or we might be able to offer suggestions about Consolidation and things like that and so we don't want to come in here and recommend that you let a lot of people go But the fact is if we find a lot of duplication Then we might make some recommendations that might then lead to a restructuring that might lead to cost Significant cost savings in that regard if you're going to just determine to a limit eliminate positions through retirement or attrition or Restructuring so I think that in that regard it could end up being Quite a bit more, but that's going to be your decision to make after we make the recommendations there The survey because we're using scientific methods you could use that everything will belong to you after we're done It's yours. You've obviously paid for it. So that could be used for other purposes So perhaps, you know, you're seeking some sort of grant or something along those lines because it's a scientific survey You are more likely to get purchased from that than you would if it's based simply on anecdotal data, you know from a few citizens who have You know suggested something to you so it can have added value and as Susan said with regard to phase one it will certainly have Some Offer some savings because what we're looking at is efficiency Thank you Alderman Heidemann Thank you, ma'am. In light of what's happening in the state of Wisconsin right now, okay, and I can't imagine anybody wouldn't know what's going on Starting a survey doing this type of work now without knowing what the impacts are gonna be what might happen and maybe a week or two weeks Do you think that it makes sense to make a commitment to spend 18,000 on something that might be resolved through the state? You know, we're gonna be able no matter how it comes out There might be an opportunity for us to do more with the people that we have because of possible concessions or not Therefore then those citizens would say well now we have the money to pay for these services I'd rather be able to do that where you might say well, we don't you don't need that So I'm just kind of wondering whether we should be starting it now or should be holding this document and waiting for At least some things to come to rest in the state of Wisconsin You like to answer that I would like to at least make a comment. I Appreciate your concern Alderman Heidemann I think part of the challenge though is just what happened what's happening in Madison is not going to solve all the problems with our budget and What what the survey is going to help us do is be able to prioritize what services our Taxpayers want to see so when it comes to the budget and we have to say we have to cut or we have to do x y or z We know what's the most important thing to the citizens of Sheboygan And so I actually think it's probably more critical now with what's going on in Madison and what's going on with our budget because we're again Even if the budget repair bill goes through and his budget comes through we're not out of the woods yet That's not going to solve our entire budget issue. So Again, I that would be my response to it. Thank you. Thank you. Alderman Handman Alderman Heidemann. Is that Okay, I have a quick question you've spoken a lot on this about public administration and your Public administrator Students etc. We have a form of government in the city right now, which is mayor counsel. We don't have a city administrator Do you see a problem with that? It's a loaded question Want to be nice, this is a good time. I grew up in Chicago. This is a test. This is only a test I think that we're going to offer a fair evaluation and And look at different models and what like-sized cities do in terms of their government structure And if if if we look at it and we say maybe you need an administrator, then we're going to say maybe you need an administrator As a professor's that teach public Administrators do you see yourself as possibly being biased on that issue? Oh, no not at all because I mean that the The students that we teach are far from being administrators You know what I mean? They we're training them to to work in finance departments and personnel departments and as management analysts within within Management structure, but it takes a while before they become city managers In fact my my fluid is going to become a city manager soon And I mean from he graduated 10 years ago, so No, not at all and if it counts for anything I grew up in Chicago, too Thank you, that was a lot of question good answer Alderman Hammond, did you have something else? I actually I actually do have a couple comments You know regarding the question of you know, why can't we do it internally? It saw the editorial in the press I'm sure everybody else did About why could we do this you guys are popular and you've even been here yet You know, I think again the survey and the return on investment You know a lot of that comes down to us as a council. They're gonna make recommendations. We have to implement them But what they've been tasked with is to get to look at the efficiency and the effectiveness of how we deliver the services we deliver So I think the payback is going to be right there and be able to deliver more effective and efficient services And that doesn't necessarily mean massive cuts and we had that lengthy discussion We're not asking to come here and figure out where they can slash and burn It's how can we deliver the services we deliver more effectively and efficiently and again? The second thing on the survey is we don't know how to frame questions for surveys If we walked out right now and asked somebody what's the most important thing? It would probably be snow plowing and the summer it'll be grass cutting It'll be something based off of that They have the ability to frame the question in a way that's gonna eliminate those biases. So Hopefully that helps Thank you again Alderman Hammond Alderman bow. Thank you, Mr. Mayor I would not underestimate our ability to find bias in an unbiased survey I think that and this goes back to my colleagues. I'm disappointed that we're even having this conversation I think that we have We find ourselves having lacked either the political courage or the political clout to have made these decisions ourselves over the past year we have failed the mayor Put a lot of effort into what many but not quite half thought was a fine new structure for the city And it just didn't pass and and those of us on different committees have failed in the intervening eight months To come up with a better alternative. So we find ourselves in this position of Not having the will or the clout to proffer something new So we have to go to outside services. That's a position. I think we kind of find ourselves in and so given that I And again, I was a big skeptic in committee, but now I think this is a necessary alternative and with With my back and consumer research and a little bit of OD consulting $18,000 is a very very very Good opportunity financially for us So let me be clear not a fan that we have to spend it to begin with and think that it's a shame And I wish the next council would would would structure this and do this ourselves But lacking that this is probably a good way for us to spend our money and just one more comment Mr. Mayor if I don't know about all of them and right vice president Reinflish But I respect his his up-and-coming academic credentials and the experience that he's doing in class and after the election Given that you know if he should win. I think you'd add a lot to the conversation if you would involve yourself in it Thank you again Alderman buck Alderman Bowers Thank you Since this is coming before us now if this would have been last year next year But right now we're faced with at least a million dollar loss. Maybe two million dollar loss. I Think we're going to make a decision on this It should be up to the new council after the election for us to impose our will on them after that It's sort of putting the horse before the wheel so I myself will not vote for this But I think it's a good Good thing and and I think she wagon would would benefit from it But right now with the monetary things that are happening to us I don't see how we could vote on this right now. So I would put this off to the next council Thank You Alderman Bowers If I Just had one more thought after a Chairman him and spoke I would invite you to offer wholesale slashing and burning And I'll give you an example There are ideas. I don't know if they're good ideas or not But there are ideas out there that would say we could cut our fire department in half and again Don't I don't want a bunch of emails. I'm not advocating that I'm saying we should be open academics would be open to exploring that notion when there are cities that are our size that have That have half the size of a fire department that we do and then have volunteers or supplement that manpower in other ways So I would encourage you to disregard what he said and if you find better ways if you find comparable cities You're bringing us ideas. You're bringing us. You're hopefully as unbiased as you can be opinions And if those are hey, there are a lot of ways to do this service or that service in ways that are economically better Bring it please. Thank you. Thank you again Alderman bulk Are you sure you don't you don't want to be a right-in candidate on this next election? No, sir still opportunity. No, sir Alderman With all due respect to my learned colleague back here during the conversation We did have in the interest of Transparency we did talk about things like outsourcing we did talk about you know reducing workforce But we also talked about cross-leveling we talked about efficiencies and effectiveness So we did not leave anything off the table, and I think it was very clear when we left that nothing I mean nothing is off the table Then I commend the wisdom of my learning Okay Yes, I this You know in my opinion This survey and these recommendations are more important now than ever We're going to be dealing with a million and a half dollars in Reduction in in money coming from the state We're coming into this next budget year with about a one point two million dollars structural deficit carrying over from last year So, you know we have somewhere, you know close to three million dollars to that that we need to make up now Granted we will get a big portion of that Through our employees paying into the Wisconsin retirement fund And we we have realized some savings through our insurance, which we will continue and we will have them paying more in insurance But I think this is more important now than ever that we get these recommendations before we go into this next budget cycle So I support it Do we have any other discussion? Thank you doctors you may sit down you roll call, please Kittlesen I Montemay or I Rinflaish hi Racelor hi Samson. Hi Vander wheel. Hi Versi. Hi, Wongamang Lauren hi bow bowers. No Hammond hi Hannah. Hi Heidemann no and cut 13 eyes to nose motion carries Moving on ordnance introduce 10 2340 to be referred Man matters laid over 11 2242 our own number 405 1011 by the city clerk Submitting a communication from Richard Hartman president of the shabuagan County Taxpayers Alliance Stating their position on the situation in Madison with regards to the state budget President Kittlesen. Thank you mayor. I move that the communication be filed Accepted accepted in file second. We have a motion next second to accept and file under discussion If there is none all in favor say aye opposed Motion carries 2234 resolution number 216 1011 by President Kittlesen supporting the Great Lakes Small Harbors Coalition and its vision of an annual dedicated Appropriation that maintains Great Lakes Harbor navigation channels and infrastructure requirements and the ongoing recognition and support for harbors that will maximize their economic benefit Enhanced quality of life and protect public safety President Kittlesen. Thank you mayor I would move that the resolution be put upon its passage We have a motion in a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion under discussion Could we call a Chad Pellichick from the planning department up to speak on this? I think he got some information today Thank you. This is a Non-fee membership with a group. That's kind of a Great Lakes based organization that's really pushing the federal government to Up the ante and the Corps of Engineers budget for dredging of harbors and right now is more No more crucial than any time for the city with a super fund project moving forward and the river dredging happening and if we don't We're really looking for support from the council to move to move in the direction of membership with this Non-profit organization that's been really lobbying Washington DC to get the Corps budget raised for Dredging the issue that we see here in the city is for 35 years the Corps has and dredged this harbor because of the Superfund designation So we're looking for you know this group to move in front and really lobby the federal government to be able to Get those dredging costs those dredging projects Included in their budgets and additional Revenues that that there is as we the mayor and I met with congressman Petri Today and really proposed to him that he needs to support this from a regional economic basis There's a program called the harbor trust fund That's a federal tax that Great Lakes Shipping companies pay and the revenues in that fund are going billions and billions of the expenditures are going down And they're not dedicating any money, but they're collecting the money So we're this is a group based out of Michigan And you know we feel as as we move forward with these dredging projects and getting depth back in our river that this Is a good thing Thanks, Chad Yeah, Chad and I had the opportunity to go up to the Corps of engineers office in Kiwani a couple weeks ago for a teleconference between all of the Corps of engineers offices on the Great Lakes We were fortunate enough that we were the only two people that showed up at our local Corps of engineers office So we moved way up the Corps of engineers dredging list But we need to get funding in order to do this which is why we met with congressman Petri We also Join the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence initiative Which the council approved this past year we have another meeting coming up in Chicago on Friday on that So I think if everything works out with our contacts with the Corps now with the aid of congressman Petri And we're going to be contacting senator senator Cole I believe that we're going to get The Corps of engineers in here to give us somewhere around 16 feet of water in the entire harbor Which is what we're looking for so but this this is a non Key type group doesn't cost us anything to join and just shows our Participation in it and moving things in a positive direction this fund has billions and billions of dollars, and they're not spending it so We look for approval on this Is there any discussion? There is no roll call, please Montemay or I win flesh. Hi racer. Hi, Samson. Hi, Andrew wheel. Hi, Percy Hi, Longamon. Hi, Warren. Hi, oh hours Hammond hi, Hannah Motion carries twenty two thirty five resolution number two seventeen ten eleven by Alder Persons Hammond bauk and Rindflash Authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the twenty eleven budget Establishing revenue and appropriation for the twenty eleven police training aids from the state Appropriation for equipment to connect W SCS to AT&T you've long needed Establish appropriation for upgrade of the HVAC mechanicals at Mead Public Library Alderman Hammond. Thank you, Mr. Mayor I move that the resolution be put upon its passage We have a motion in a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion There's no discussion roll call, please Hi, Samson. Hi, Vander wheel. Hi, Percy. Hi, Longamon. Hi, Warren. Hi, oh hours Hammond, hi Hannah. Hi. Hi to men. Hi, cock. Hi, kiddleson. Hi, and Montemay or I fifteen eyes Motion carries twenty two forty general ordinance number fifty ten eleven by Alder Persons Hannah kiddleson Hannah kiddleson van de wheel and versi amending the 1975 municipal code so as to add the position of environmental engineer to the table of organization in the Department of Public Works for the city of Sheboygan Alderman Hammond Hannah, excuse me, Hannah Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move that the ordinance be put upon its passage second We have a motion in a second to put the ordinance upon its passage under discussion If there is no discussion roll call, please Racer. Hi, Samson. Hi, Vander wheel. Hi, Versi. Hi, Longamon. Hi, Warren. Hi, Falk. Hi, hours. Hi, Hammond. Hi, Hannah. Hi to men Hi, Katt. Hi, kiddleson. Hi, Montemay or. Hi, and Rindfleisch. Hi, 15 eyes Motion carries other matters turning the clean 2342 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending June 30, 2011 and June 30, 2012 I've got it that goes for law and licensing 2343 is a communication from James Rinal reminding the council to drop Parking for the rest of the month of March after daylight savings time starts goes to public protection and safety 2344 submitting a communication from Aaron Brault and Nemshoff and Paul Weaver Requesting approval to host Sheboygan first and only Olympic distance USA T sanctioned triathlon on Saturday, August 13th on the South Street district That also goes to PPNS and to public works 2345 is a communication from the early Bird Rotary Club requesting permission to hold their annual lobster boil and fountain park on Friday, July 22nd Referred to public works 2346 is a summons and complaint in the matter of U.S. Bank National Association ND versus May-y-vu at all Goes to risk management 2347 is a communication from Richard Hartman inquiring about the needed appointments for the government structure that lies over 348 is an arrow by the building inspection department submitting the reported building inspection department for the month of February 2011 will be referred to public protection and safety 2349 is an arrow by the redevelopment authority Advising that at their meeting today at noon They're recommending approval of the new ground lease and termination agreement According to the term set forth in the draft documents with the understanding of the final details are worked out by city staff And if there are any material changes to either document the document come back to the redevelopment authority And that lies over Okay, we are going to be going into closed session We are going to be going off the air and will not return this evening We will take the the voted open session However, we will not be back on the air for those folks watching at home Alderman Hannah. Did you have something? Two-minute break can't do anything in two minutes. We'll make it a five-minute break Can we have the motion to go into closed session president kiddleson everybody make the motion to convene and close session under the Exemption contained in section 19.85 one e Wisconsin statutes for the purpose of deliberating regarding the termination of various agreements and new leases relating to the proposed sale By great wolf to Claremont new frontier of the Blue Harbor Resort where competitive and bargaining reasons require a closed session And for the purpose of deliberating the purchasing of public property where competitive and bargaining reasons require a closed session Thank You president kiddleson We have a motion in a second all in favor of going into closed session Roll call please on the closed session Motion carries we are in closed session everybody Please clear the council chambers at the exception of attorney Resemius can stay he has an interest in party and department heads of the city