 Welcome back. It's still the breakfast and plus TV Africa and we will be discussing issues are bordering, you know, new renewed militancy in the Niger Delta, specifically a new militant group in Rivers State. Bayan men attacked another oil facility belonging to the Niger, a jeep oil company at Obosi area of Omoko, Oba, Elma Mountain, Dornay, local government area. And we have joining us Professor Kenneth Oweke. Good morning to you. Many thanks for joining us on the breakfast and plus TV Africa. Yeah, good morning Nigeria. All right, let's talk about this particular bombing that happened along that particular axis, Obosi area of Omoko in Rivers State. What does this really tell you? Over time we've had some sort of peace and calm in the Niger Delta, but with this new attack, what are we failing to see? Well, I don't think there's anything to get worried about, except the fact that this is, this is appearing new because over time there hasn't been this kind of attack. But I don't think that something that they would be able to send some kind of panic to Nigerians and the people of Niger Delta. But of course, you know that the level of criminality in Nigeria is gone so high, not just about the other parts of the country. But of course, the Niger Delta region has remained very peaceful in the last few years. But again, it actually calls for a review of what the Amnesty Office is doing, the Niger Delta attempt of the Amnesty program that that office is handling in the Niger Delta region. All right, we'll try and reconnect with Professor Oweike there. He seems to be having some issues with his device. And as much as he said, it's not seem to really worry about, I just may want to disagree because they actually, you know, bombed that particular facility after the expiration of the ultimatum that they gave, you know, to the Nigeria oil facility. But then again, they are saying that they are not criminals, that they are intellectuals. The fact is that they, when a man, I'm just quoting them verbatim, the fact is that when a man is pushed to the wall, he bounces back with double force. We are giving Ajib another seven days to open windows of negotiation with the 27 communities of Omoku clan. I don't know if we'll have a professor Oweike back. All right, you know, mercy. I think it's something that we should indeed be worried about because there has been a relative calm in that area. But with all of this renewed bombing, I don't know, in my opinion, it is actually sending the wrong signals. Well, first of all, we would have to understand that the Niger Delta region has actually been going through a lot. I mean, you know, the fact that the source of livelihood has actually been destroyed over time due to the activities of this international companies, of course, oil exploration and what have you over the years. And the issue of oil, I mean, the principle of derivation, the 13% is still ongoing and what have you. But the consent now would be finding out what the motive is, what actually is the motive. Are we still fighting the same course? Let's not forget about the fact that this is actually a new group. I mean, this is a new Miniton group as it is. And it is not, you know, the usual that we know what costs are they fighting for. Could it be the cost for justice? And I'm also hoping that, you know, Professor Kennett's back online, his back online. All right, Professor Kennett Mweke. Yeah, sorry. Thank you. It's good to have you join us back again. So just as I and my colleague were having a bad time in the studio, the next question would be, do you think that this is actually a fight for justice or is just also another means of making money, selfish purpose or interest? Of course, I don't think it's a fight for justice for the people of Niger Delta. A lot of people have been over time, been made to believe that these kind of attacks are meant to address the injustices in the Niger Delta. But I don't think that this particular one is a one that you would want to associate with that kind of struggle for justice in the Niger Delta region. But I think that basically what is happening is in part of the criminality, the absurdity of criminality in various parts of the country. And so you have the Northeast, you have the Northwest, and then you have the Southwest, you have also the Southeast, you know, and then of course the Niger Delta region has been very, very quiet over time. And probably this is another absurd that you would not want to associate, you know, with the level of injustices that are meted out for the Niger Delta region. I have always said clearly, and I mean, I can be put on record, that yes, it's not enough from what the federal government is doing in the Niger Delta region or the oil multinational. But if we are pleased and sincere enough that we are able to utilize what is being done for the Niger Delta region from the government and oil companies, then we'll address most of the challenges because a lot of the Niger Delta sons and daughters are part of the NBDC. And then I know that the oil multinational are giving enough funding to NBDC in terms of their budgetary provisions, particularly budgetary provisions. And so we have the Amnesty Office and others. We have the Niger Delta Minutes. And so how have we been able to utilize these resources? Even though they are not enough to address the normality of the challenges, I think to you, I come from a community in Igbo in Chile. And so that has with over 350 oil and gas works, but from Obibu and to Igbo in Chile, in river states, we cannot access the place, it's deplorable. And these are things that challenge the people into this kind of attack. But I think that yes, people have borne so much injustice in the past, also meted out by our own people themselves, you know, because they have been saddled with the responsibility of developing our area, but they have failed to utilize, you know, the little resources that have been accrued, you know, through these agencies, interventionist agencies in addressing our challenges. But I think that even with this forensic audit report and all that, you know, the government needs to, the federal government needs to put, you know, their feet on the ground to ensure that whoever that is coming, as the board members of the NBDC, actually are genuinely committed to developing the Niger Delta Minutes. In line, I mean, I also work in synergy with oil multinational. As we speak today, SBDC is planning to divers some of the investments that it has in the Niger Delta Minutes. These are some of the signs, you know, that oil is not well in the Niger Delta region, and most of the oil multinational are not so ready to do what they ought to do, you know, again, because the little they are doing is not commensurate with what we are getting and all that. So it calls for a change of path. But I think that this kind of attack is probably meted out by a few people who actually are looking to set up their individual next. But there's also concern that they're saying that the reason for this attack is as a result of the injustices or injustice that's been meted against the Omoku people. So if you say that it is not just for the quest of the injustice, but rather for selfish purpose, how do we explain that? No, no, of course, if you talk about all of us are doing advocacy, for instance, I told you how my people in MUHA, you know, from Omoku to MUHA, can't access their communities, having over 350 oil and gas oil. So should I, well, I know that I'm, should I refuse, you know, militants to take up arms, to blow up the Omoku oil field that has been able to take over from Estilis because my communities have not been developed and all that. No, we continue to do strong advocacy, and that's the way when you begin to challenge, you know, the level of development, and then you come with equity, you come with clean hands and all that, and begin to challenge, you know, some of the things that are there. And so it's not about what the people are doing, you know, I, you know, genuinely, we're committed to fighting the cost of the Niger Delta. We must continue the advocacy, you know, in that regard, you know, not to take up arms against, you know, the facilities that we need to feed from and all that. And so no matter how genuine anybody wants to look at this matter, you know, if it does not come from the legal point of view of advocacy and all that, we'll continue the advocacy. After all, some of our sons and daughters have been saddled with the responsibility of being in the face of NDDC. How have we been able to utilize those resources in developing our people? And so is it to event our anger, is it by blowing up the OUF and all that? No, it is to continue the advocacy until we get things right. All right, Professor Ongweike, but specifically now the leader of the group, Juan Agaba, is saying that they want, you know, Ajib Oikopi to commence dealing directly with individual communities other than through individuals. The list of the question here, would you really say that the issue is with the NDDC and its operations that some communities are not actually getting the impact of maybe the development that they should ordinarily be getting, or what exactly are the issues? Let me tell you a good example. SPDC, for instance, are not very well, including the Ajib oil company, Total Energy and all that. They've been saddled with the responsibility of developing those whole communities. But again, all the efforts are to be complementary in nature, and of course, the government at all levels, including the local government, the state government, the federal government, are to take a lead in the development of this community. But what we find, in the contrary, is the oil company is taking the center streets. Oil companies, for instance, are not doing my 11.6 kilometers, from mobile to UHAN, of course, because they pay their taxes, they are royalties, they also support the NDDC through the statutory project provisions and all that. And so they also are going to be the responsibility of public social responsibility to this community. So if the development agencies are doing what they ought to do, and then of course, the oil companies' efforts in this regard will complement this effort. But rather than get this, we are getting something in contrary. And so these communities are not developed and as much as they should and all that. And so everybody can leverage on this level of injustice to perpetuate any criminality. That is the point I'm making here. All right. Well said. But then again, they are actually calling for openness, transparency in all of this. They said they want everyone to... And of course, you know that the PIA is in place and they're going from next year. The communities will be standing with the responsibility of developing their areas and all that. And so anybody who is not okay with some of this, they should be able to have some everything in this regard and to give some level of patience because very soon the communities will take charge of the development of their area. And then, of course, you will see how things are found out there. But in all of this, do you think because we also know that recently the issue of derivation has actually been up and the fact that some people are saying 13% is not enough and others are saying, okay, how can host communities just have about 3%. So that argument back and forth is still ongoing. But another argument is also that, I mean, the resources that has been allocated to this region, how far have we managed it? What have we done with it? So in all of this, how would you rate the assessment and the performance of the NNDC in all of this and how the governance of this region have actually utilized the resources to develop the region? Yeah, clearly the 13% derivation fund ought to apply to the host community. But what do you see that happen? The governance of this oil-rich state and not also developing along these lines. They're not developing communities along these lines. So if they do with it at 5%, this problem should have been reduced. The NNDC also goes by that along this line. This problem should have been reduced. Then if the communities that are given funds like for SEDC operation, Global Memorandum of Conduct and others are also doing what they ought to do in terms of genuinely committed to the cost of their people. Without one or two questions taking advantage, these communities would have been the hive of development. But that is not the case here. The pleasure men are mentioning to you in my own community that we have over 350 oil wells. The state is not also doing anything to address just 11.6 km roads. I need a trailer to access that area and all that. And so if we use the 13% derivation fund, then we would have turned that place to something else. In the end, it's coming to also complement that. And then with the need to that the oil multinationalists are also doing, then we would have realized very huge development in the area. But there is complacency at all levels of government in joining forces with the oil multinationalists in developing our people. And to make it worse, our people are also not helping ourselves. We are not helping ourselves because when we have positions that we need to act swiftly in developing our areas, we tend to corner the resources at our own very opportunities, rather than passing for the cost of the people. So as it is right now, how do we begin to calm nerves around that particular access, not just only for Omoku community, but across several communities in that room? Because they are threatening, that's the Bayan men, they are threatening more attacks in the coming days in that particular region. What should we be saying to the devils? Are we supposed to bring them to a round table for discussions or what exactly? There's nothing like hand table except that you bring the people of Nagyadev. The people of Nagyadev need to sit together and tell ourselves because both those who are in those capacities in NBDC and those who are doing the responsibility of governing the state at all levels of government, need to gather together and let us look at our eyes, eye to eye, and tell ourselves the truth and how we need to help the region. That's the only way to out of it and not to discuss with the few section of the people and all that. That would not guarantee much to that field that we need in the Nagyadev area. So, but do you think that that's going to bring, you know, a lasting solution to the issue? Because it feels like when everybody, of course, when every stakeholder sits in the room, like ourselves, both government, you know, LGO, these communities, let's tell ourselves we should both pass, you know, current leaders pass and all that. Let's, let's, you know, do some kind of in-house cleaning. Let's tell ourselves we should, and then, you know, because our people have been saddled with the responsibilities of building our air and they have failed in doing so. Let's look at our faces and they'll see how we can, you know, get out of the woods because nobody else will develop our place apart from ourselves and they will gather together as a people. The great governors have thought that we need to, in conjunction with some people that in the Nagyadev area, need to convene an emergency, you know, stakeholder meetings, let us discuss our past and tell ourselves the truth and tell ourselves the way forward in developing the Nagyadev area. Because without the governors, we'll have this 30% in their hands. And then without all that, we just people that move and pass all of the energy, you know, and then other people that in the oil industry cannot make any headway, the time suffrage, immediately developing the Nagyadev area. All right, Professor Ongweke, do you have enough faith in the fact that the PIA, the recently, you know, passed a certain PIA, that's the Petroleum Industry Act, will actually address all of these issues of derivation and of course attacks and different communities having some sort of grouse or the other? Of course that will not happen. That will not happen. PIA is just addressing a little of it. What we're saying is that at 50% derivation, let those who are holding that 50% you know, identify these communities, first give them priority in terms of development, then let them do this, also identify these communities and give them priority, attention. Then, of course, these would be complemented by the CRS of the multinational. Of course, this will address the challenges so that anybody who can be able to separate personality from, you know, justice and other, and that's the only way because for me, the PIA is merely addressing how communities will get some funds and develop their ideas. So how much will they get? And then, for instance, the money we get in a UAG address, you know, this 11.6 kilometer road that I'm talking about, the answer is no. So you need the state governments who have 13% funds to first identify the communities that are impacted and then develop along that line. Local governments in this area need to also identify these communities and develop them along this line. Then MDTC needs to also do so, while all of these will be complemented by the activities of the multinational. So at this point, don't you think we should be having conversation regarding resource control? Maybe it's time that, you know, the entire federation begin to consider the issue of resource control and that will solve, you know, the issue of injustices that people are agitated about. So when you talk about resource control, a lot of people, you know, will also dominate against the masses. So it will be a government of the few against the majority of the people, even in terms of the legal resource control. So when you talk about resource control, the governance of this region will be trusted with the funds, you know, coming from this region. And so if they have not been able to utilize the 13% in developing my own community that has over 350,000, then if you talk about resource control, then they can run everybody at hand. So it's not about resource control, it's about genuinely committed in developing the area jointly and not about resource control. The resource control will give some people more privilege than the people who are suffering the activities of the oil multinational. All right, we'll leave up the conversation at that. We understand that you need to take a flight. We must say a very big thank you to you, Professor Unweke, for joining us to bring some, you know, input and of course, you know, solutions to this militancy in the Niger Delta. We do appreciate your time. And we wish you a safe flight. Thank you. All right, it is the breakfast and plus TV Africa. We'll take a quick break and return. What's more, to join us again.