 Welcome everybody to another episode of the nonprofit show. We're really excited to have you with us because today is fry yay And today is ask-and-answer This is a special day that we have at the end of every week Our viewers and listeners can write in text in call in Stop us on the street and ask questions and then we get somebody from fundraising Academy to join us in these discussions It's really funny Tony sometimes the questions are the same sometimes quite the similar questions come up every few months And then sometimes the questions are completely out of the blue and we're like what? It's kind of a for me. It's a fun thing to do this fun It really is today. We have Tony Belsinger director from National University Academies and the Relationship Center He is really the very first person that we on the nonprofit show engaged with and then We just like created this amazing Partnership and so we don't always get to have Tony back in the hot seat with us and we sure are excited when he is here Tony has been in the nonprofit sector Pretty much his whole life even as a teenager. I know you were doing fundraising and doing things No, it's true right when you think about kind of your pathway to where you are in the nonprofit sector Yes, I think many of us a very young age were philanthropic and raising money and and all of that good stuff and built some of those core skills Very early on I think so and I think it's a fascinating thing to see that trajectory That nobody could identify or really understand or talk about but when you step back and you think about it It's like, oh, yeah, that's what I did Yes, we always did so and what is happening and with us and when we have really Come ahead is our relationships with our presenting sponsors and those include Bloomerang American nonprofit Academy your part-time controller nonprofit thought leader fundraising Academy at National University Staffing boutique nonprofit nerd and nonprofit tech talk These are the foot folks that join with us day in and day out and really they make a difference And they allow us now to be at about eight hundred and fifty episodes. So It's a it's a lot That's great. Yeah, thank you Hey, you can get to the nonprofit show three ways you can scan the code and get the new app that Our amazing team at American nonprofit Academy led by Kevin Pace crafted for us It's remarkable. You can also find us on podcast formats and then of course streaming broadcast So however you like to consume your content get educated get inspired with you. So join us Okay, Tony, you ready? Yes. Yes, absolutely. Let's see what the viewers have sent us for this week Okay, this is like the best because this person signed it frustrated and Fresno I didn't know if that was you just protecting someone and we're getting creative So instead of saying anonymous you said frustrated and Fresno. I thought it was fantastic. No, they wrote frustrated and Fresno I just thought that was a hoot. Okay, but it's a good It's an important question and I bet there are a lot of people that have the same issue and frustrated and Fresno writes How can I get fellow team members and development to be putting better information in our database system? I am frustrated that our donor database does not have good information entered and it's frankly wasting my time Man garbage in garbage out rule for sure, right and time is muddy. So What do you suggest because I don't really have good answer a good answer for this Yeah, so, you know, so this is all around kind of Standards of practice right business norms within the organization and how do you get folks to kind of lean in into those? So a couple of things that I would recommend one is let's get everybody together and let's talk about The importance of the database system to be one Frustrated and Fresno thank goodness you have a database system to be frustrated with Because there are many organizations that don't have the capacity financial or otherwise to even have a database So so first, you know, let's bring everybody together. Let's talk about why we need a database Because maybe you're going to find out in the room that people are going to say we don't need a database And that's why we're not using it. So let's have a conversation around the why of a database I love it. Let's then let's have a conversation around the database. We're using maybe it's not user-friendly I mean, maybe there were things around the tool that's been selected or subscribed to that doesn't really support Either the culture of the organization the way that your fundraising team is working. So then let's talk about the tool Then maybe, you know, so now, you know, everyone has buy-in around the value and the wine. We talked about the tool. It's the right tool Then I think you need to consider whether or not you you need to implement some incentives Okay, you know for folks and and when I say it doesn't mean anything crazy But just kind of like they were the star database user for the week or for the month Or you know, so just think about ways to incentivize folks for using the system and using it the way that they they should use it Yeah, so those are those are just some of the things and then, you know Frustrated and Fresno when you're having your team meetings bringing those scenarios to the team meetings and saying This was the challenge that I had or this is how I feel like my time was wasted When I went to go, you know, use the database because x y and z wasn't there like I wanted to send this donor a Birthday card and we didn't even have the birthday and you know in in the system So really giving those real-life examples of how the information that isn't being provided is negatively impacting your success Might also help folks. So those are some of the things that that I would recommend I had the real pleasure of working with an International organization years and years ago that were struggling with this and It was really important because they were dealing with a lot of high-end Celebrity, you know donors, so it was really important that that kind of information, you know Stay within the organization and be there for someone else to be able to pick it up and carry it on But for whatever reason they couldn't they were in the position where they were able to build a Dashboard so a lot of stuff that they were using were custom and internal for the organization Like the the donor management system was something they built internally So they ended up investing in in building a much simpler kind of dashboard That communicated with the donor management system, but the dashboard was Much more user-friendly a lot easier to enter information and then that fed the data to you know The main donor management system again a lot of organizations are going to be in the position to create another custom Technology dashboard to support the other donor management system But that's just one example of the extent that some organizations go through to make sure that they're capturing this really important Information about their donors, you know, Tony you said something kind of interesting And I'm wondering if I had never thought of this and that is that Maybe your team members don't really Understand why it's important and how it's being used and they just think it's like another stupid task that they have to do That doesn't have any value or meaning and so I like your approach to say this is how it gets used And we can find statistics on every time you touch, you know a donor whether it be a Card or a thank-you or it's not like necessarily for an ask It's it's also I feel like it goes back to what we were talking with the fundraising Academy team on the cause selling cycle about The importance of building a relationship and it's this information that will help us do that. So oh for sure It's almost like a reeducation if you will No, I hope this helps I really do I I've been to Fresno. I can I know it can be a little frustrating Thank you for the creativity on the signature, right? It was great. That was great. I hope that I hope that that's helpful I mean, you know, it's I think folks, you know when we think about building trust amongst our teams One of the core pillars of being a building trust is logic So when you if you want to build your team members trust in the process They need to understand the logic behind it. I Love that that might just be the best message of the day, but we still have more questions So let's see if you can come up with something that beats that because that was pretty damn good. Well, thank you Judith from Los Angeles, California writes What is the protocol for a major gifts officer to communicate to existing donors that they are leaving and moving to another? Non-profit we're going to be experiencing this change and I want to have a precise action Plan so there are no surprises as this person Transitions to another organization I read between the lines and I hear Judith saying she's afraid that this major gifts officer is going to take donors That's all I think that that's always a fear, right? But but you know again, we're in a relationship business and and Julia if you and I have a Relationship and you're you know the major donor for the cause that I'm supporting and I move on to another Organization it doesn't mean you're going to be passionate about that cause To so it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't mean that you're naturally just going to follow me and be like come on Julia Let's you and you know Your philanthropic desires just follow me wherever I go right in some cases that does happen We all know that that happens because certain philanthropists really trust Certain development professionals and will follow them because they're going to trust the investment in their dollars, right? So here there were a couple of different things that came to mind as you were reading this one Judith Yes, you do need to have a plan and you do need to do whatever you can in all areas to you know We we always talk in my organization about the no surprises rule, right over communicate so that there there are just no surprises So the first thing I think about is what is the portfolio look like for this major gifts officer because you're again Relationships everyone's different your approach to communicating this change to this portfolio of Donors is going to be different depending on the donor So I would look at this I would look at this major gift, you know, look at their portfolio Who who is it appropriate to receive an email? Right, who can just receive an email, right? And then you can have the conversation should the email come from the CEO or executive director or should it come from? the The major gifts officer that's leaving Okay I'm I'm on the fence with that. I think it depends on Again the dynamics of the organization You know Kind of the culture some some CEOs are going to say oh no that needs to come from me You know and in most cases I would say if you're going to do an email It needs to be a joint message with joint signatures both from the CEO and from the major gift officer That's leading because you want that donor as the CEO or executive director You want that donor to know that you're in tune with what's happening? You know what I mean so that you're not just a statistic in their financials So there's that so again think about the different tiers within the portfolio for this major gift officer What are the most appropriate communication styles to retain those donors in some cases? You're going to want to set up a face-to-face With the outgoing officer and you as the ED or CEO Because I because very rarely unless you're promoting internally Very rarely are you going to have this officer's replacement for them to be able to do those kinds of introductions? Again unless it's an internal candidate and then you might have the opportunity as the outgoing officer to take the internal candidate To some meetings and introduce them. This is the person that'll be you know, managing the relationship moving forward, you know Blah blah blah, so so yes definitely support a plan You don't want to surprise donors by them calling one day and finding out. Oh the person's no longer there But again in the spirit of kind of cause selling and one-on-one Relationships think about the varying ways in which you're going to need to communicate this message to these these major donors You know, Tony, this almost seems like an interesting and sir. Just as Serendipity that this would follow the question about Keeping the donor database updated because a lot of this even though it's major gifts I mean it should that those stories should be in there, right? It should all be there. Yes Especially for someone that's a major gifts officer. I mean that implies You know that we're talking about high-level donors for your you know impactful gifts for your organization Yeah, all yeah, especially for you know, what I'm assuming, you know the level of investor For this particular officer. Yeah, you know, it's it's really interesting because when I first read this question And then I I read it aloud. I I could feel the fear in it But I think right out the gate your comment about look Donor investors don't just follow the major gift officers They might and there's trust but the reality is they might be moving to something that that doesn't capture the attention of That philanthropic donor and so, you know, it's it's not going to devastate an organization But you have to be smart and you have to have a plan. So yeah, Judith I hope this helps you and it helped me and I loved hearing about this Okay, let's go to another part of the I'm gonna say world From Richard in Newark, New Jersey Our board is thinking about finding an interim CEO for a retiring CEO My question is this how long does it take to find a qualified interim CEO? I keep hearing that full-time nonprofit CEOs are taking about 18 months to hire Wow, so that's I didn't realize that that's kind of the runway that was that we're looking at now for for full-time CEOs Well, I'm hearing that too. I'm hearing now Yeah, so So so Richard the the first thing I would say is boy I wish the nonprofit nerd was on this particular ask-and-answer because Jared is such a fan of of the interim roles within nonprofit organizations and there's a lot of value a lot of hidden value that folks don't think about when You consider an interim role, whether it be a CEO or development officer or the What that fresh set of eyes is going to see And and be able to share with you as just kind of like oh, you know, I kind of recognize this I don't know if you've seen this happening, but your incoming CEO You might want to make them aware of this happening, right? And then also as the When you hire an interim CEO or again any interim role when you do finally after 18 months, hopefully sooner Secure that full-time CEO You now have an interim that can really help onboard them So, you know, so think about your interim CEO in terms of the timeframe of the investment not just when You know the start date of your new CEO But maybe a month or even two months after to really give that CEO good onboarding support So definitely support the idea of an interim CEO How long does it take to find a qualified interim CEO that I'm not going to make up a number I'm not really sure what that runway looks like for an interim CEO I would venture to say that most interim CEOs are consultants So once you, you know find the right consultant, it's probably pretty turnkey from there, right? It's negotiating the contract and so Yeah, I don't think it's is hard I mean, I also think there's there are communities where there are more Interim CEOs right because you can just see where like trainings are and and Organizations once an organization has used it and used it successfully in a community that spreads like wildfire And the board members and you know the the ecosystem of nonprofit management is hip to it and goes Yeah, this is something this is a tool. We're gonna use because right you're right Tony. It's not a babysitting Mechanism it's somebody that goes in and almost does forensic work. They review all the pieces of the organization and kind of Do that deep dive into all the different Aspects of community service and Structure so that not only can you hire the right, you know the next CEO But then you can bring somebody in successfully and to your point on board them And so but yeah, I keep hearing it's a good 12 to 18 months to find somebody and this is not surprising given Where we are post-pandemic we we had an issue moving into the pandemic about a huge Swap of Non-profit CEOs and founders that were retiring many who held on and stayed on during the pandemic, right and then as you know, the all-clear is kind of going on right now at the time We're living in people are like, okay. I'm out. I stayed in extra three years. I'm tired or right. I'm John I'm so done. Yeah, so I mean it's interesting But yeah, you got a jump on this because Yeah, and Richard doesn't ask specifically in this question and I'm sure this is being considered but you know being very clear around what this interim CEO is empowered to do and the level of decision-making and You know, so you you to your point Julia. It's it's more than babysitting, right? You it's more than just keeping things afloat because you still want to keep things moving forward But it could be tricky for an interim CEO if the level of empowerment isn't really clearly defined, right? No, it has to be very specific and you have to have a board that can Understand that and and and also I think you have to have a board that steps up and says, okay You know we were meeting once a quarter. Okay. No, we're gonna meet You know or at least every month or the executive committee or you're gonna have to have something That's a little bit more engaging at that level. So yeah, I hope that helps. It's a really It's it's an interesting thing good for you for trying to have this concept moving forward It's not gonna be easy, but it's smart. Yeah, Jackie from Memphis, Tennessee writes in Do you have any guidance on what the average nonprofit board members should be paying for their annual give or get? We are updating our board requirements and currently get our give or get is only $100. This seems quite low Well, every board member should be giving should be giving at least a million dollars to their organization Okay, so probably right we solved all the problems we solved all the problems right everyone's gonna give a million dollars Well, Jackie, thank you for the question and what's really interesting is just this whole concept around give or get There's a resurgence in the conversation around get and get and and the the implications that that has to certain Boards and certain nonprofits, especially, you know more grassroots community-based organizations So I think the the first thing to focus on is Creating that culture of philanthropy that culture of giving within your board. So at least they're giving something Yeah, and I think we're We're a lot of this and this is just Tony's brain Where a lot of this came from with the give or get was when funders started looking for matching gifts and Where funders specifically in the grant world? We're asking the question What percentage of your board give or even more specifically? What you know, how much? Collectively like they want a dollar figure has your board contributed annually to the organization So that you know, so there are those types I think of scenarios that got us to this point where organizations are having this conversation one Should we have a give or get policy and then to Jackie's point? What should that give or get look like? So there isn't a one-size-fits-all answer I do agree though Jackie that your board members do need to be contributing something Because at least when we're applying for that grant we want to be able to say that a hundred percent of our board are Making a financial contribution even if it's fifty dollars, you know that there are twenty five dollars even that that they're contributing I Think I think also in this As as Jackie as you're thinking about what that amount looks like you have to think about You know equity amongst your board and inclusion amongst your board. I mean you want diversity in your board not only in terms of gender and Ethnicity and all of that but but you know diversity really in and financial status and diversity in the communities that they're living in right so so you're gonna So you just have to be really mindful of What that amount looks like and how that is going to impact all of your board members? And think about the other ways that they that they contribute and is there so when we talk about give or get You know When you if you're gonna raise it above a hundred dollars Really think about those board members that are going to be mostly impacted and think about the ways that they're already Contributing in the give category and think about how you're gonna soft credit them You know in the give and how you might be able to elevate that I love that idea of Soft credit. I've never heard it phrased that way. I like that. I'm also a big fan of Having a scholarship for this so that if you do have somebody that Could help you with that diversity and equity issue that then you can say yeah, no problem We have a fund for that especially if let's say you're a younger board member, right? I mean are you're you're not you're not earning at the level that your older board members are and you're at a different phase of your Life, there's no problem. I think of saying we're gonna scholarship that in for three years or five years or whatever Or you know rotating something like that. I think that's smart and maybe your give or get I just it's the first time ever thought really kind of thought of this But maybe your give or get is on a sliding scale Dependent upon their years of service. Yeah, so maybe your first year on the board. It's a hundred dollars Maybe your second year. It's 200. I mean, I don't know I mean, maybe there's something creative that could be done and and your give or get is based on your Years of service to the board. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's good. I think you have to be Flexible number one you need to know that you are right Tony donors and Funders and contracts that the nonprofits are engaging in are asking that question What percentage of the board donates and then the next level would be what's that amount? So absolutely, you've got to look at that and have that be something that the board understands why this is happening, right? I mean because it's a different I'm I would again again, Julia. It's that why right? It's the logic behind it logic Yeah, yeah, that's the lesson of the day for me. You know, I think the other thing too is don't Confuse board dues with the give or get and that's for another time But board dues can usually are used to pay for the operations at the board. So maybe food or Travel or you know labor whatever. So that's a different piece versus that other thing Okay, we don't have much time, but I do want to squeeze in one more question It goes by so fast. I know it does even for me This is a name with help and I'll tell you I took this name off because I didn't I didn't want it to be I Just didn't want it to be disclosed. You didn't you didn't you didn't name it sassy and St. Louis or something My god, I need to start doing that because that's actually that would be fun for me Yeah, name with help our CEO thinks we should do an employee audit questionnaire to determine employee satisfaction She is thinking we should have an outside company or person do this to keep it in arms length Do you think this is critical or can we do it internally? It will cost a lot less if we do it Of course, it's gonna cost a lot less if you do it, you know in internally and and and kudos for thinking that way Right. That's good fiscal management. It's like first. Let's think about the resources internally and the talent internally But I think for some type of employee audit or questionnaire That it does need to be done by a third party or an external source I just I just I just think that folks are gonna buy into the process. They're gonna find the results more credible If it's done externally, okay, I think that's yeah a good thing I just was talking to somebody about this like gosh This week and and the person said now that I'm thinking we were at lunch and she's like, yeah, I was asked to take You know a questionnaire about my organization and it came to my email and then it was sent from my email So even though it was anonymous They could identify me and she was like and it was really interesting. I was like, wow. Yeah, okay I mean, she's like, yeah, how anonymous was that? So, you know, yeah, I think you're right I think it should be done externally and I love, you know, the message of the day understand the logic and and Educate on that and then it you'll get better answers. It'll be more efficiently tabulated And I think it also takes it from a he said she said it pulls it out into a third-party Delivery of that information which is ultimately the thing you need and and then I mean I know the question doesn't really ask this but be prepared to do something with the data Be prepared. I agree with you Don't ask if you can't work on it because that's just that's so frustrating, you know, you know, yeah Be prepared to do something with the data. Yeah, absolutely Well, Tony Bell senior director National University Academies Relationship Center. You are a gem my friend. I do are to oh my gosh I learned so much from you And I always enjoy your spirit and your intelligence and so But you know, Tony's one of many people and I think they're all like this So check out fundraising Academy and you can access their their site through Fundraising dash Academy dot org and you can learn all about the different things that they're doing Pretty much most all of its free content It is remarkable if I'd had it in my community when I was starting out I would have raised millions more I can witness to you on that as a non professional non-paid fundraiser but a community partner Definitely, I would have done better for my community. So in my next life, right Tony, there we go Hey in my next life I hope I'm still thanking our sponsors and they include Bloomerang American nonprofit Academy your part-time controller nonprofit thought leader Fundraising Academy at National University staffing boutique nonprofit nerd and nonprofit tech talk These are the folks that join us day in and day out Tony this has been remarkable. You've given me a lot to think about today I think a lot of great information information. Yeah, head explosion all over the place because I'm going to lead With logic saves the day and logic helps move the needle That does it's always so good to see you. Thank you again for inviting me and and allowing me to be part of these conversations It's remarkable. Hey everybody. We like to end every episode with our message and that is Stay well So you can do well. We'll see you back here on Monday everyone. Thank you, Tony