 Hello everybody and welcome to this session on prioritising workplace mental health. My name is Philip Campbell and I'm chairing this session and the order of the session will be some brief housekeeping guidelines. We're going to do a quick poll and then we I will introduce the speakers and we will have a panel discussion and then we will go into breakout sessions and then we'll report back on the breakout. I think the key messages about this session are sharing experiences of how organisations deal with mental health, focusing on approaches that work so the evidence for those and also indirectly I guess guiding the world economic forum because it is itself doing a lot in this area. So I believe I'm meant to be making way for some housekeeping but if not I will go on someone can send me a message if you want. But the poll that we are meant to be doing is that my employer has increased mental health well-being resources for employees this year after COVID-19. Here's the poll on the screen I hope and I guess what you need to do is to click on whatever you think is appropriate and submit it and we will get some feedback immediately. So I'm just going to wait until we get the feedback. So what I'll get on with while we wait for the feedback is to introduce the speakers. So we have with us this meeting is being recorded and just been told this meeting is being here we go here's the feedback. So the majority but not necessarily a huge majority but the majority have taken steps so we will be I'm sure sharing some experiences of that and for example if you're like me working from home much more than you were what impact has that been generally found to have on mental health and companies already begin to share experiences about how they cope with that. Okay so let's move on and let me introduce the speakers. So we have a very interesting panel of people we have Professor Miranda Wolpert who is head of the mental health priority area at the Welcome Trust and she's also a professor at University College London. We have Emma Codd who is the Global Inclusion Leader at Deloitte and the founding partner of the Global Business Initiative on Workplace Mental Health. Emma it would be great if at some point we can be clear about that initiative because it sounds very interesting. We have Enoch Lee who is managing director and the founder of Verapy a social enterprise for well-being consulting and training to prevent workplace little health and to strengthen well-being with a special efforts in China and the Asia Pacific region and then we hope during this meeting we'll be joined by Fatima Azara El Azuzi who we've had trouble contacting but if she can join us that'll be great and she's a member of the World Economic Forum Global Shapers community and a youth mental health advocate. She works in the IT industry I believe so those are our speakers and without further to do I think we can begin a discussion for the next 30 minutes or so and the questions obviously we're trying to look at how should businesses be thinking about mental health well-being for their employees and it's certainly interesting in my company that the part of the company that has paid most attention to the mental health and well-being is the same part of the company that deals with other aspects of sustainability so mental health and well-being is a part of sustainability of a company no question but also it is being seen in a wider context and for example in the bigger world the issue of climate change is something that we believe is a great relevance to mental health so those issues do join up in that respect too. Then how do we measure the impact of the things we do in our companies and what the success would play and what role does the employer play what is their responsibility and in particular how can we make sure that CEOs take responsibility because if you have that guidance from the top that's great but also what about the bottom up initiatives so those are that's the space we're dealing with and Miranda, Emma and Enoch I'll invite you to speak if Batima joins us I'll invite her to speak too. Miranda why don't you tell us a little bit about what you're doing and what your interests are on the space over to you. Brilliant thank you very much can you hear me I'm not muted yes I'm just putting into the chat two links that may be useful to people that if you get bored of listening to me you can look at these links which are probably got more interesting stuff anyway so thank you very much for inviting me today. I guess welcomes C's mental health as one of its core areas of interest and one of the things that I think is about sustainability for the whole planet so really helpful to see it in the context of these wider initiatives including things like climate change and infectious diseases and we do think that the workplace is one of the key areas civil society and changing the way that we support mental health in the workplace is going to be one of the key ways that we transform the way that mental health is supported and positive mental health is promoted going forward into the future so there are two things that we want to let you know about the first is that we have a position paper that we have we're very proud of that have come out of our learning from the covid crisis that where we are partnering with the world economic forum the world health organization and UNICEF to agree three principles and absolutely everything we do one is that the voice of lived experience has to be at the heart of everything we do so anything we're doing around workplace mental health has to essentially draw on people who have experienced mental health difficulties and what will help them and not help them the second is to look for local innovations and not assume that we can invent everything and then impose it top down we know there'll be all sorts of things happening from small workplaces to large workplaces that we want to learn from and that what works in one place may not work in another so making sure that we're locally sensitive and the third and this I think is really our way into workplace mental health is that if we are going to manage and address the challenge of mental health issues we're going to have to think why didn't health and healthcare and the workplace is one of the main areas where we need to think so thinking larger than healthcare when we think about mental health so those are the three principles that we're committed to and I put a link into the paper if you're interested the in terms of our actual initiative around workplace mental health we've just commissioned 10 groups from across the world to look at different innovations in terms of workplace mental health because our commitment is to bring scientific evidence to bear and we're interested in working with any workplaces they're interested in doing that that's why we're so excited by the global business initiative and by one mind which is a collaboration of workplaces looking around mental health it's been going for some years thinking about what the evidence base might be so our what we've done is we've commissioned a range of initiatives they're on our website and I put a link into their chat they range from group psychological first aid to peer support to mindfulness training to employee autonomy to flexible work practices to reducing prolonged sitting so they're quite diverse and we think that reflects the field that we are we haven't yet it isn't clear yet where you will get most bang for your buck as a workplace and one of the things that we are nervous about is there is a lot of selling going on in the space of saying this will solve it just by my app or by my approach and we're really keen to work with workplaces to get an evidence base in really keen to develop a methodology where we put science into the workplace so in order to do that two things we want to alert you to one is that we have launched an initiative of common metrics in all scientific study of mental health we want workplaces to use those common metrics as much as healthcare settings they're on our website this is a joint initiative with the national institute of mental health in the states and we're hoping that in time all funders will support us in this so if you are looking at when mental health in the workplace we would like you to be using the PHQ measure the the GAD measure or for younger people there are other measures but those are the two core ones that we really want workplace science to use and we'd like you to be thinking in terms of what are the active ingredients of what really helps in the workplace and thinking broader than healthcare so that might range from your policies around pay and flexible working right through to your policies around specific sorts of therapies or specific interventions. Okay Miranda thanks very much indeed let me just ask a little bit about what that actually means in terms of what the companies need to do if you like to provide and your obviously welcome is traditionally very steeped in academia and academics do study these things but you're talking about other settings and other types of documenting I imagine so could you say a little bit more so that the people who are in companies whether big companies or small get a better sense of what it is you would need from them. What I would like from them is to join us in the collaboration around trying to get science into what actually helps their employees so help us learn so what I want from them is to get involved with scientists and we're happy to broker those relationships so they actually try out different things within their companies however small you can still try out something in a rigorous way and see if it works for you. I'd like them to measure what they're doing as part of their processes whether they're using employee surveys or other methods and I'd like them to come together in some of the collaborations that already exist whether it's the global business initiative or one mind or other collaborations to actually share learning so that we learn from their local innovation. Okay and then my second and final question at this point is how ready are the companies to do what you need what do you experience give us all hope by saying that you're getting a lot of fire. I would say there's never been a better time that the companies are particularly interested in this I think there's never been a best time to have it on the agenda I think they are confused about what to do not quite understandably and they're looking for guidance I think there is a need to make sure they think broader than the older members of their employees and think to younger members in particular where I think there are particular issues and one of the things we're already learning from our reviews so far is how little literature there is on the younger age group so I think it's about trying to find what works for you within the scale of your company to rigorously investigate what will help with the mental health of your employees and draw on us a resource to help you think about the scientific models that you might use. Thank you very much Miranda and now over to Emma. Emma you work in a big company you're familiar with the big company landscape and I'm interested to hear about your perspective on that and anything else you want to highlight for us over to you. Thanks Phil and Miranda thank you always great to listen to your comments around the role of the workplace as well so I'm just going to give some really brief comments just tell you a little bit about Deloitte why mental health is really one of our primary inclusion priorities from a global perspective so Miranda mentioned the younger part of the workforce and I think that's really important for all organizations to think about and to consider so if you take Deloitte as an organization we have over 300,000 employees around the world we're across multiple locations and over 80 percent of our workforce now falls into the millennial generation Z demographic and so that obviously brings with it the needs to understand what that generation or what those generations actually feel what they're thinking and let me tell you mental health is very high on their list of priorities just before I go into some of the findings that we had from our recent millennial survey one thing that I also did want to just emphasize is I have a I absolutely agree and I think it's really you know a good thing that mental health is very high on the agenda of CEOs at the moment and that's from from what I'm seeing anything from large organizations to to to SMEs as well the one thing that does concern me slightly about that is that once we are through this pandemic that it then takes a backseat again and and and what I am here to say is that mental health was you know very much an issue before COVID and and just to illustrate that give you some of the findings from from our millennial survey so when we started the millennial survey end of last calendar year and before any of us could see what was going to hit us from the pandemic perspective we then obviously as we started to get the results we were in the middle of the pandemic so we went out and we did a poll survey as well and and so what we were able to do was get a snapshot of how the findings had changed so before the pandemic and during the pandemic now it's 18 000 millennials and generations ed globally and this year is the first year that we had really included very detailed questions on mental health and really because it's such a priority for us as an organization we knew it needed a priority for others and therefore important that we had some detail so just to give you a snapshot of the findings because you know it that that sort of question around why should this be important for employers well well it should be because 48 percent of generations ed and 44 percent of millennials basically told us that they feel anxious or stressed or or most of the time I mean that that's just just enormous and actually with a higher proportion still among women and young parents now very interesting I talked about pulsing um doing the pulse survey during um you know the sort of first wave and and stress levels actually fell slightly during covid so where we were all assuming that they were going to go up in that generation they fell slightly now it was still a significant issue now you could then say well possibly that's due to an increase in remote working and possibly a general slowdown in life um now nearly half of generation zed and 44 percent of millennials ranked their mental health as their first or second priority in life with only physical health ranking higher on that list of priorities now there was a really wide list of stressors and actually I have to say I I I agree I'm a mother of two children um I had all the homeschooling I had everything else and I have to say I'm not a millennial but I actually really agree with many of these and you know things like family concerns about family welfare financial security climate change all of those things that that you know we worry about but from a workplace perspective interestingly there were two top contributors to mental health challenges the first one was balancing work and life and Miranda referred to you know flexible working and information around that I believe that's critical for organizations to get that right and the positive impacts on mental health and then secondly not being uncomfortable to be your authentic self at work and that's rather depressing and frustrating when so many organizations have been focusing on diversity and inclusion so long and then just finally before I um before I finish on my comments one thing I think that I would say depressed to me most um about the findings was that it's very clear that that stigma is alive and well globally and and within the workplace and this really needs change I believe the workplace play a critical role in changing that so more than well more than half of millennials and generations had felt that taking time off due to stress is actually legitimate it's a good thing and indeed a third had said they had done that themselves about half of those that had taken time off for those reasons had given their employer a completely different reason so it clearly shows that a lot more needs to be done and you know I firmly believe that the workplace um can play a critical you know key role thank you very much Emma um do you want to say a little bit about what Deloitte does about stigma oh yes and you know this is it and and let me tell you we don't have all the answers and hence collaborations like the um you know the the initiative that we've been working on with uh right you know one mind at work um obviously um you know very very happy to be working with Welcome Trust as well with HSBC with Unilever um you know that that come together we have the answers in my view and I think there are so many good practices out there now now from our perspective a big part of it has been talking about it and having leaders talk about it and my previous role before I assume my global role was I was managing part of talent in Deloitte UK so 18,000 people um again very large number of millennials there and and actually when we looked in 2016 we took part in the mind index fabulous mind index and we in 2016 one thing that that came out starkly um was that our people did not feel particularly comfortable talking um about when they had periods of mental ill health and they also felt that their leaders weren't very equipped to actually deal with it if they did speak out so for us the solution was you know we we did that this is me campaign we got people talking about it we had our CEO talking about it I was talking about it we introduced mental health champions as well so people that you could go to all of those things but I think it's talking about it it's it's for want of a better word normalizing it it's making it past the conversation and then for me the big issue is inclusive leadership and how people lead because it's all very well having messaging that comes from the top that says you know please feel free to talk about this it's okay to not be okay and then you go to your line leader and your line leader does not demonstrate any sympathy raises their eyebrows makes you feel um you know bad so so we've also focused really significantly on inclusive leadership and um mental health first aid so to look it's a combination of things and it takes time um as well but but we've shown that it works and that slowly but surely if you do the right things that work for you as a business you can start to reduce stigma are the results of your survey available for sharing yes absolutely and if I can work out how to if I can be as brilliant as Miranda and work out how to paste links um I will I'll find a way to do let's make sure the world the world economic forum team could make sure that happens yeah but but do try that'd be great um just a couple more questions I guess um I think you you mentioned almost in passing that in the talk about it anti-stigma approach the leadership are taking part in that did I hear that correctly because that's one of the common problems you find that the young staff then put themselves out there in talking about it and in our own company that certainly happens on our intranet um but the people at the very top who presumably have their own stress problems may not be quite so willing to do that so let's get your experience about that yes and and you know we've got great examples of that um around the world Australia we have the most amazing inspirational very senior partner um you know client facing um within our organization who we've actually just reported a podcast we released global podcasts um and he has given the most extraordinary insight I I myself actually took um three or four tips out there that I then actually was part of my children I thought two 11 year olds um starting a new secondary school all of the stressors and trains so actually being able to even take that and pass it on to others but so it is it's getting those role models um our CEOs very engaged so our global CEO is very engaged in this but absolutely it's finding those senior um role models now I'm not saying that was what happened first of all I have to be honest back in the UK when we started out on this we had a lot of more junior people coming forward and put it and it took a few months before we started getting the more senior ones we have people like you know and also we have John Bins who was a partner that talks very openly there's a lot of work um cross globally as well um and it's very open about um you know his his period of mental health what he does how he stays mentally um healthy and and all of that's so important um for our people to hear so so you know it does take time and and I agree with you Phil it is the biggest challenge is getting senior individuals to come forward but again the more we talk about it the more the CEO talks about it the more it's clear it is a priority for us as a sustainable business this is a sustainability issue I think I've got one more time for one more question for you um but this is the subtropic of your breakout group but it might be good to get a general message about it and that's so I was involved in previous WEF effort the Global Agenda Council where we did look at the experience of companies of that time this was a few years ago and talking to CEOs it was clear that many who were already geared up to do things were doing it because they just thought it was the right thing to do and it seemed to be less strong the message you need to do this as an investment so the financial case seemed to weigh less heavily in the debate if you like so I'm just interested to get your experience about the importance of the the moral leadership as it were but do we need to have the investment arguments there we do and look with any change you've got the moral duty that you know the you know upward purpose led businesses you know the wider impact on our people and starting absolutely that's really important but equally I'm afraid I'm a realist and the business case is really important when we introduced you know agile working with it when I was within the UK the part of my my method of moving a huge cultural presenteeism to one where you know it was far more around agile and work life balance was I came up with the number that we had on the table that was walking out of our door every year because we were getting it wrong and eat the same goes from mental health perspective as well so and apologies I have to glance at my notes here because there's there's some with so Deloitte we in the UK produced a report with minds and again we can put the link out there January was produced in January 2020 and it looked at the case for investment in mental health in the workplace now now things like poor mental health cost UK employers up to 45 billion a year the report looked at return on investments I think this comes back to Miranda's point about you know what works what doesn't work evidence based now it looked as best it could and it was a fascinating piece of research and what it found was that for every one pound spent by employers on mental health intervention they get five pounds back in reduced absence presenteeism and staff turnover so you know things like early interventions you know really important greater return on investment you know we're businesses so of course we're out there and of course you know we want to do good now the final thing I would say is that I'm I'm just practical about this and look I know myself I know when I'm happy and when I'm engaged and when I'm able to be open I'm so productive but when I'm worrying about something and it's there and I'm displaying presenteeism when I'm going to work you know what I'm rubbish thank you yeah I just want to an apology and a confession here there's a lot of chat going on and I'm not reading it because I'm concentrating on what I'm doing here however during the breakout sessions I will check the chat and try and make sure we pick up on the things so now I'm handing on to our next panelist you know you know Glee do tell us about your interests especially in the Asia Pacific region but whatever you want over to you thank you and thank you for having me as part of this conversation I started this work because of my own experience 10 years ago in clinical depression and I attempted suicide a few times and at that point I was working in a large corporate and as time went on as I made sense of my own mental health condition I started to realize that I was one of those people who held the biases and stigma that we've been talking about of depression is weak it made me a failure I can't talk to my boss they won't understand no one will help me and I think particularly from an Asian upbringing context and I grew up in Hong Kong where it's extremely extremely competitive we don't really play if we play it's playing to win it's a competition so we're extremely achievement focused so when depression hit me it felt like everything I had achieved fell apart and it was a case of just not knowing who I was anymore and to add to that element where the family unit is very strong in Asia Pacific it also felt like I brought a lot of shame to my family and as I work with people here in China and Asia Pacific like a lot of them I think a big difference is sometimes when we feel these issues the first people we go to would be family outside of Asia whereas in Asia family almost seems to be the last people that we would tell because of the potential embarrassment that we're bringing to not just the family's origin but even to a few generations up and all the extended relatives and as I started to get better I also moved on to study organizational psychology and leadership development I started to think or feel a gap between the workplace what companies are talking about what leadership is like and mental health and slowly I merged this into our business today which is very much prioritized also around the social impact and community awareness we're racing around mental health of how can we help companies understand that this is an important topic one and secondly how can we help the individuals think and understand that this is an important topic to themselves because we are perhaps compared to the UK Canada and Australia we're still very much at a stage where I would say we're nurturing the market of why bother why bother about mental health why bother about it in the workplace and even a question of this is a private issue why does it why is my employer even implicated in this why would I share it with them and so our work is very much around helping companies here and it would be interesting I think 99% of our clients so far are multinational with a presence in China or Asia Pacific and we help them implement some of the global mental well-being strategies and initiatives in locally so that it's adapted to as I think Miranda brought up the look the cultural sensitivity we're also working of course with workshops and training to increase the mental health knowledge and what we find is that the last few years where four five years ago when I started working on this on my own I remember knocking on a few company's door and say let me come and talk to you about mental health for free I won't even charge you and they said no thank you but you can come and teach us how to be happy and I really had to draw the line there of you know what what is the message that we're trying to bring to about two to three years ago when I decided to build a team was when I felt like there was a bit more interest for the interest was still around stress management resilience to now slowly I think with the catalyst of COVID for better for worse people are asking well what else is there about mental health but that said that is that small portion of the multinational presence here for the Chinese companies here we're still very much at a stage if there is this thing called mental health and then actually another segment that we work a lot with is startups and entrepreneurs which I would group much more as our social impact work because most entrepreneurs at startup stage are quite bankrupt if they can't pay for any of this training so we do talk to them about burnout it's a very prevalent thing I think there's a Stanford University study a few years ago that said entrepreneurs are 30% more likely than white collar workers to experience burnout depression anxiety especially in the early stage and that's really one area I hope to change here in China if you look at some of the big Chinese tech companies I don't know if anybody's heard of the culture called 996 which means the culture of equivalent in Silicon Valley of Huffling you work 9am to 9pm six days a week at least and that's a batch of honor and you also have senior leaders in these tech companies mandating employees to be in the office for at least nine hours so that for me is the aspiration of that's what I would like to change someday and at the moment we're working with those who are much more receptive to the idea thank you very much you know I've got two questions that sort of relate to each other one is how can other people on this call help you you've got to I think I assume you've got an opportunity here given this audience and given the other speakers so I'd be interested to hear to what extent others can help you in your view and other also if you look at sustainability more generally in China there has been tremendous leadership from the government and of course that happens both at the national level and at city's level for example so I'm interested to know how you might ever turn to the government to impress on the need for Chinese companies and individuals for that matter to think about mental health as a real issue and to avoid stigma or to mitigate it I agree maybe I'll ask you a second question first I agree the government has done a lot over the last I think seven to eight years particularly with the mental health plan that they have put in place of training more psychiatrists and here is where it's interesting for me of they have trained psychiatrists but they haven't quite trained what we would traditionally know as clinical psychologists right people who aren't medically trained but are clinically trained to understand mental health conditions now what that does is that only psychiatrists in China are allowed to diagnose any mental health condition and anyone who's not medically trained are called therapists they are not allowed to diagnose but they can do therapy so what that creates is in some ways yes there is more help but the idea of I have to go to a hospital to get a diagnosis doesn't quite help with the idea of the shame and embarrassment that we feel with stigma I think one of part of what we would hope to do as well and I completely agree with the importance of lived experience and I have another role actually on the global mental health peer network where we're driving lived experience as a methodology to relate to people is to help them destigmatize this right but there is a big disconnect with healthcare in the national level and community level and where I'm working at is the private sector and I think part of working in the private sector in some ways politically I'm also under the radar in case I do something that's not quite within a certain line so there is there is those things that we're trading here over where you know is this line do I cross when I when I work on mental health right so I'm also quite careful and respectful in that sense and I would love one day to be working and advocating much more with the government at the at the moment we're still working much more with the universities here helping them with some research but I think that connect where I see and quite envy of in the UK of the work between the government and the private sector and the civil society all coming together I think we're still very early stage here in China and so that leads me to answering your second question of the help I would love if any of you have companies or with presence in Asia Pacific in China I love to get connected to them not just from a business standpoint but from a standpoint of can we get together collectively and do something that we see happening in the UK like the GBR you know can can we come together because a lot of these multinationals also have a presence in China I'm seeing a lot of campaigns run outside of Asia Pacific and I'm like well these are global names what's happening with the counterparts here in Asia is the regional headquarters of some of these companies in Hong Kong and Singapore are they aware of it what about the China head and if they are can we get connected can we build that presence here in China and run something here that is also in the Chinese language in terminology that we would understand and also give some guidance in that in that that's great maybe the World Economic Forum can help people get access to you if you're willing to share your contact details I would love to put it on the chat that'd be great I believe that Fatima Azara Elazuzi has joined the session can I have that confirmed because if so Fatima welcome there you are great a warm welcome to you and I did introduce you earlier on in your absence in the hope that you could join us so now I'm just going to hand over to you Fatima this is your chance to say whatever it is you would like to say to this group thank you so much and thank you to all the panelists so me joining late is a result of time zone confusion because I'm actually dealing with a difficult mental health period myself so I've been this has been quite happening to me more more than more than one time and I think we just need to be vulnerable about these things when they happen not be ashamed of it so you know a lot of importance in size and I second you know all the ideas that have come up I think the word shame that you know mentioned is very important here and you know as Dr. Brunne Brown says the antidote to shame is empathy and compassion and I think we are not there yet in the workplace I think as much as the pandemic has you know had a silver lining of you know allowing the words mental health to not be shameful to talk about I feel like you know we're talking about mental health as a corporate concept or product which it is not when we talk about mental health we talk about human feelings and emotions and I think we need to humanize mental health more especially in the workplace and you know just talk more vulnerably about what that means and again I fully agree with you know Emma when she talks about senior leadership being involved in CEOs and heads of companies especially when we see that younger people who are you know less powerful in the workplace most of the time are not okay they do not feel safe to talk about their mental health issues and if we don't change that if we don't have a culture of trust where people feel empowered to talk about these things and that their feelings are going to be valued we're not going to change anything we could have as many services and you know initiatives and Miranda you know mentioned a lot of solutions that we can come up with but this is one area where I believe in a top-down approach because if I go to my manager and I talk about you know the issues of you know mental illness that my mom is dealing with that that are you know impacting my my work life and she doesn't understand that you know that's not going to help but if you have CEOs of companies and senior leadership who come and vulnerably tell their stories and I do think there is a difference here you know there's a difference between coming and saying well 10 years ago you know I'm a CEO and 10 years ago I dealt with depression and it was really hard and then I saw a therapist and it was okay I think we need to start talking more about what's currently happening as it's happening I think we talk about it as a success story like oh it happened before and you know what like I'm on the other end of the spectrum and everything is okay but I think if someone if you know the leadership can come and say I am currently struggling and and this is exactly what's happening to me and maybe cry about it in front of employees you know how many CEOs have we seen cry in front of their employees about mental health if we don't see things like that I don't believe we can change the culture so I believe mental health is about you know you know grief of losing a job for example a lot of people have been laid off and the way we talk about it is very important it's about you know dealing with with parents or grandparents who are who have dementia and it's like you really don't know how to deal with them it's about having kids you know Emma shared her you know motherhood story you know having kids that you have to school at home and and literally like practically what it means to deal with that and how it impacts your work and how you can't focus and how you can't be as you know performing I do think we need to be a bit more honest and especially come in from from the senior leadership another thing that I wanted to mention is diversity and inclusion which is a dear area to to my heart and making sure that when we offer those services we make sure that people have equal access we're probably talking now about multinational companies you know and a lot of them during the pandemic they came up with services and like free counseling hours for employees and so on but I think we need to think more about smaller structures in especially in you know countries or cultures where the sigma is higher I come from Morocco and in Africa it's not as as easy I mean we have improved so much but but it's not as easy to talk about these topics so maybe how we can be more creative and you know partner with spiritual or religious organizations with companies you know there's so many different things that can be done thank you so much I just want to ask you one question but we're getting to the end of the session but um your work as a global shaper it might be interesting to just hear very briefly about points of inspiration from that you know are there places in the the region that you're dealing with the networks that you're dealing with that that can provide inspiration and that can be shared with the participants on this call the help of the world economic forum yes so I mean I'm very proud of the work we've done as a global shapers community over the past three or four years um you know four years ago we had no mental health projects in uh practically in the projects that we do locally in our hubs but now we're just so overwhelmed I no longer know you know all about all the projects that we have in every specific in every country around the world and we started that by getting vulnerable and by talking about it in smarter groups and saying what can we do about this well there's stigma okay let's break the stigma so in 2018 we organized the campaign on social media and allowed people to tell their stories and then the videos are still available so you could see a man in Canada and a woman in Nigeria talking about you know depression and anxiety and maybe suicide attempts and seeing that they're selling the same story so we realized how much of a global issue this is and and right now the big projects we're working on is having a training for people really our goal is to offer it's for people are around the world around being an empathic listener because we believe this is at the heart of improvement mental health a final question very briefly it's what you've learned there to what extent is it shareable to what extent is there documentation that you could share with us yes so we're working on a website for the training that we're offering and we're planning also to offer it as an online course so stay tuned this is coming in the next couple of months and we'll be able to share it through the forum thank you so much Fatiba so everybody thank you very much for your contributions I found that actually really positive and inspiring I have to say despite the enormity of the challenges