 Welcome back to the Breakfast on Plus TV Africa. Our next conversation goes to, of course, more revelations from the Auditor General of the Federation's report. In the last couple of days we've spoken about billions of Naira that have been misused or accounted for from the National Assembly and other ministry departments and agencies in government. This morning we're talking about 3.22 billion Naira that has, of course, once again been declared missing or unaccounted for. No paperwork to show that these, you know, that well, Auditor General says that we're given out to ghost contractors. But not just that, 178,000 plus weapons, ammunition AK-47s and the likes, were also declared unaccounted for or missing by the police. And we're going to be speaking this morning with Comrade Declan Ihekari, he is a national coordinator, activist for good governance. Morning to you, Mr. Ihekari. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, thank you so much. Great to have you on the program. Which for you is most shocking? Is it the 3.22 billion Naira that has been paid to ghost contractors with no paperwork to show anything was done with these funds or that any contracts, you know, actually carried out? Or is it 178,000 AK-47s and other ammunition that have been declared missing? Also in the police force? Yeah, thank you so much. Unfortunately, when a country where... is that when a country where people were paid. We seem to be struggling with feed from Mr. Ihekari's end. And so we'll try to reconnect with him and see if we can get that conversation going. You know, it's really just about knowing where we are as a country and what will be done if you remember the conversation earlier with Mr. Chris Wando. The question was, what will happen next? You know, now that the Auditor General has declared that these funds have been seemingly stolen or misused or misappropriated, what happens next? And also, should this be great concerns for a country that is fighting insecurity, that is fighting banditry and armed robbery and kidnapping and terrorism in different parts of the country, knowing that 178,000 weapons have allegedly been misplaced by police officers and by the 9th Dream Police Force. How much of a worry should this be for the giant of Africa? When do we get to, you know, have a serious conversation, a serious conversation, rather, about, you know, who should be punished and who should be held accountable for a weapon being lost? Every now and then, I spoke about it earlier, every now and then, we hear about armed gangs, attacking police stations and stealing weapons or, you know, attacking police officers and taking their weapons. But 178,000 is a staggering figure that should worry any country. And everyone should be, you know, questioning where these weapons have gone. In whose hands are they currently? And, you know, what threat does this pose to Nigeria as a country in the next few years? And that's what we're going to be talking about this morning. And also, when 3.2 billion Naira has been paid to ghost contractors, according to the Auditor General, who should be questioned and who should be made to answer these, you know, these allegations? Does the 9th Dream Police Force itself know that 3.2 billion Naira has seemingly been misused or misappropriated or even stolen from its coffers? And if yes, why didn't they act before the Auditor General's report? Does the Nigerian government really, you know, have any concern or any interest in the fight against corruption? You know, like we said earlier, every now and then, it's 127 billion. It's 9 billion. It's 3.2 billion. It's so much money. But there doesn't seem to be an equal fight against corruption when you hear these stories. If you remember also, somebody fainted during a Senate hearing until date, he has recovered from his collapse and still has not been able to answer questions as to the misappropriation of NDDC funds. Mr. Heyakari, good morning once again. Yeah, good morning. All right. Kindly go ahead. I think we can hear you clearly now. Yes, yes. Go ahead. Same question. Which for you is more worrisome? 3.2 billion Naira to ghost contractors or 100 or 178,000 weapons missing? Yeah, both, both, both. I say Nigerians and the perpetrators of Nigerians, both are worrisome. And I'm sure it's also worrisome most Nigerians. For the story here, the number one, the story is getting a democratic step in, at Nigerian police, paying good contractors and the hospital to clean arms and ammunition handed over to it. It's a very dangerous crime. It should not be controlled by every movement in Niger. So I am worried by the ghost in country for the money and the arms that cannot be accounted for. Okay, so let's also ask, you know, probe for that. I mean, is there possibility that this amount of arms can actually just go unaccounted for or be missing as been stated? Is there possibility of that happening in a system? I mean, this is a very sensitive, highly sensitive, you know, part of the society in every country talking about the police first. Comrade Hekari, can you hear us? Okay, so the question is, is there possibility of having, you know, 178,000 armed, you know, weapons going missing in a very sensitive, sensitive part of, you know, a body, a security body as the Nigerian police force? Okay, so we seem to be having, you know, some disconnect right there or, you know, some poor connection with, I guess, and as soon as we're able to reconnect with him, we're definitely having back. But, you know, like we rightly mentioned, you know, in the course of the conversation this morning with this issue, the only thing that can come to my mind are just questions, questions that I'm hoping that we can get answers. First of all, the police force is a very sensitive, highly sensitive, a body that's saddled with the responsibility of ensuring that, you know, there's protection, lives and properties are protected, you know, in a civil dispensation, I mean, in a civil society. And constantly we have queried the interference of the military in the affairs of civil rule. So that already, you know, costs for a lot of concern. Now, for the police force, we also know that you have the Police Service Commission, who is also saddled with the responsibility of ensuring discipline and what-have-you. And I'm sure that there's an armory when we were talking about the hashtag answers. We talked about the fact that, you know, before officers are going there's a register where you have to sign in your weapons, you know, the one you're taking out. And of course, if you're coming back, there should be also a check. So at what point do we have these weapons, you know, getting out of hands? Right now, because we don't know where they are, we can't tell. There could be in the hands of, you know, dangerous elements out there who are perpetrating crimes. All right, so it's good to have you back, Comrade Declan, in here, Kerry. Can you hear us, please? Yeah, I can hear you. Okay, so my question now is as sensitive as the police force is, is there a possibility of just having these weapons just missing, unaccounted? Yeah, I said it's very possible. Why in a country where anything can happen? Moreover, the Audit General is somebody who has enough information before making such statements. But my fear now is that you have found to see the bulking of the statements either from the police or from the Audit General. But the fact remains that as of today, the country is so porous that you have people who are not supposed to carry arms or carry arms. And you begin to wonder how those arms are coming into the country. Very in mind that our borders have been manned by security agencies. And so if such number of arms are being declared missing or unaccounted for, it could be possible that such arms are in the hands of those who are not in this nation. So like I said, the Audit General is somebody who must have been trusted and tested to make that cannot be challenged. I mean, so, so if, whether, regardless of whether they deny, you know, these facts or not, according to the, from what you've said, whether they put out the counter argument or not, you know, it's still worrisome, you know, that these weapons may be in the hands of criminal elements. There's of course been insinuations of corruption within the police force. You know, there's also people who have their own conspiracy theories as to how these weapons may have been lost. But, you know, how much of a fear should Nigerians have seen that 178,000 weapons have gotten maybe to the wrong hands? We are still dealing with a banditry and an insurgency and some of all of that. Should we be worried? Of course, of course. Of course, Nigerians are the worries. For such number of weapons to be unaccounted by Nigerian police, the number one security agency in the democratic stepping, I want to say that it speaks volumes of the lack of insincerity of our people and the help of our friends in this nation. I want to appreciate the auditor general to have made this known to Nigerians. And like I said, it's quite unfortunate. Very, very unfortunate that we're hearing this and we're seeing it. But however that's unfortunate, Nigeria is a place where you hear a lot of negative things, things that are supposed to be hard in the proper democratic setting. And it's coming at a time when we're supposed to have a teach that ought to be based on integrity, on transparency, on accountability. And we're having this kind of news. It's quite a sad one. It shows that we're not saving this country. And that is a bitter truth. This also exposes the allegations of corruption within the police force. Every now and then we question how much money is budgeted for security and why it doesn't seem to be in any way effective. The police might argue that they don't get enough money, but when you still hear that while they have that argument, 3.22 billion Naira, according to the auditor general, has also been paid to ghost contractors by the same police, should also somebody be made to ask questions. And the inspector general of police, the police service commission and some of all of those, should also be aware that there is some corruption in their force and nothing seems to be done. Yeah, the question is actually a question. But you begin to ask again, how many top hierarchy people in this country have been called for questioning? Who has been due to cause interrogation? The answer is no. Most of these people that are supposed to be called for interrogation are highly connected. They are on the board. They are untouchable. So you don't begin to ask, what is the interrogation? Even if they are interrogated, what is going to be asked for interrogation? When a country where people have been taken to court for attorneys that have gone wrong and for 120 years that they are still in court. You should also forget the fact that the current IG now is the new IG. How many IG are you going to invite to answer questions that are related to this development? So is a very worrisome situation. The auditor general should be able to stand right at this point in time. And like I said, before such statement was released, I am very sure that the auditor general must have done the proper work. But be that as it may be. We are in Nigeria. But my prayer is that we will get to a situation in this country where people are not hearing anything, but hearing leaders who will understand the flight of the people and who will lead the people by the understanding of the power of democracy. Unfortunately, we are not getting that at this point in time. And that's why we are hearing this kind of news. I am worried. At the end, nobody might be invited. I am very sure of that. And if they invite somebody, I am also worried that nobody will prosecute it. Okay, but just as we are costing it down now, what would you say is the implication of having unaccounted firearms somewhere in thin air for us right now as the people in the midst of the fight against insurgents? Coming in, please. I am asking that what would you say is the implication for having unaccounted firearms, that number, somewhere that we don't know. What does that mean for us now? What's the implication of having these firearms out there in space? Thank you. If you are saying that we don't know where the firearms are, I think I would say we know where they are. The firearms, if truly they are looking the way it's been mentioned now, of course, they are willing to find it. The firearms are supposed to arrive in this nation right now. And that is why you find the situation in the North West and the North Central that Nigerians are not sleeping with their eyes closed closed. You might be able to wonder where all these things are coming from. Now, you begin to see a situation in the South East of Greece where unlicensed Nigerians were armed and they were taking fire with the Nigerian army and Nigerian police. So, so, so, so, so, I am aware of where those arms are. Nigeria today told us that people are not safe to go into war. And so, if this situation is coming at this point in time, it stresses the fact that most of the soldiers who were hearing today, most of the banshee who were hearing today are being armed by those unaccounted arms and ammunition. However, it depends on the federal government as the president to actually go deep into this revolution. But to me, I am worried. I'm seriously worried. Well, how do we move forward as a country? What would you expect? You know, you just mentioned that, you know, it's left for the federal government to look deeper into these investigations and into the other general's report. But you also mentioned earlier that, you know, you don't expect a lot will happen or, you know, anything of that sort will happen. You know, and so how do we move forward as a country if we keep hearing these things and taking, you know, almost no action? And of what use really is the auditor general's report? I'm afraid it's not going to be anything in this country. Nigerians are the nation and Nigerians are people who are moving forward. You have two kinds of Nigerians. You have the people who are well-cured, and you have the martyrs who are cured by God. And so, we find out that most Nigerians who are in the draft of the massacre, always trust God for their security. Why do other sides who are the visual or the cover have put their hope and trust in their bodyguards and those that are still there? So, with that development, we find out that Nigeria will keep on going the way it's going until one day that God will give us our leader, our leader, who will lead this nation and lead this nation very well. Unfortunately, it won't be part of the democracy. But to me, what we have today is just a republic. It's not truly a democracy. If it is, with this revelation now, hate will be ruling. I cannot show you of that in a top democratic setting, where democracy is in fact with this revelation. I am sure as of today, people will have been invited for questioning and Nigerians will have known those that have been invited for questioning. But before you know it now, the carpet will cover the whole story. And you will not hear anything about it again. It has turned to be the country where every day you wake up, you hear one story. The next day another story comes up and covers the first one you had. But it's quite unfortunate that we have to find out where we are today. Finally, can you quickly just tell from your perspective, you were a national coordinator activist for good governance. So I'm sure you must have paid a little bit of attention, or even a lot of attention to the mentality of the average Nigerian. And like you just mentioned, we move on very fast from issues. Can you tell us exactly why that is? Why is the average Nigerian so quick to move on from stories like this that should normally shake a nation? Stories of death, murder, villages are wiped out, there's corruption at staggering levels. But the average Nigerian just moves on. Can you share with us what's the mindset of the average Nigerian that these things don't seem to bother them anymore? Yeah, thank you. I'll give you an example. When a baby is crying, and the father or the mother are not there to ask the baby to cry or to calm down, if we find out that at the situation or at the point the baby will stop crying by himself or herself, that is the situation where most masses in this country find themselves. Those that are supposed to give us understanding of how things are being won with this nation, they are not there for us. So you find out that Nigerians, masses on their own, have factored out how they want to lead their lives. And that is why Nigerians have their own personal security guards. They have their own water systems. They have their own personal assistance. They have their own personal education assistance. And so those things are supposed to be from the general government. But they are not getting it. So Nigerians have made up their mind to move on. They have made up their mind to move on. But one thing I'm sure of is that they cannot continue this way. It will get to a level where God is pushing to make the win pass me and give us good leaders. Unfortunately, 2023 is just around the corner. Nigerians will go out again and vote. Voting again, who is going to lead us to the public land? Nigeria is the last mission that has got everything humanly possible, but it is possible to be greater than any other competition. But unfortunately, we are getting people who are not leading us well. So you are bound to see Nigerians moving on. They go to churches, they go to mosques, and they get sold from their pastors who tell them, oh, your reward is in heaven. And so you find out that they have left concern about what happened to them in the country. And that is the country. Well, we, of course, would like to hear more from the Auditor General's office and hope that the current administration does take these reports seriously so that we know the actual need of an Auditor General of the Federation. If not, then, you know, as well, we'll be as well closed down that office. Deklan, Kame Deklan, Nihikari, thank you so much for your time this morning. Thanks for joining us and for speaking with us. We wish you a great day ahead. Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate it. And God bless Nigeria. All right. Well, that's the much we can take at this point in time. We hope you enjoyed, you know, every bit of the conversation. And if you missed out on any part of it, it's okay to follow us on Facebook and Instagram, plus TV Africa, and subscribe to YouTube, plus TV Africa Lifestyle. I am Messi Boko, and do have a great day ahead. And I am Osao Gie of Bona. Bye now.