 Good afternoon. Hello. Good day everyone. Welcome to the BCV broadcast I am your host as you can see Seca Woods and glad to have you here I'm gonna wait a few moments for those who are getting getting started coming into the chat Facebook fam YouTube family me make sure that you all are getting in here. Let me go ahead and change my settings here sometimes my Mobile device here does not connect the Live on on Facebook. So make sure I get that taking care for you all So we can get this thing going to pop in here. Let's see Get that going make sure this is good And we should be getting people in and right now as as we speak coming into the Facebook chat People don't want to be missing that like I don't want to miss the live on miss the live Okay, hold on. We coming we begin you we bring you begin you. All right making sure you good. Let's see Okay, should be good to go. Let's see We're here. Yo, we're here. Yo, you don't know nothing about that. Do you roar that that that down south North Carolina No, I really count Texas is its own state, you know saying y'all not really you ain't lying about that old continent You ain't you ain't lying about that, bro. That that is definitely that is definitely true we we got it we do our own thing out here and Let me see this thing running real quick. I'm trying to make sure of this cuz I'm my Facebook chat would be Populated right now and make sure if it actually took the It actually cleared it here. I see YouTube in here make sure that the Facebook family are in here Let's see. Let's see. Okay. Let me try it again Well, it's you know, it's funny. I'm looking and I'm looking on your your Facebook Your Facebook and people are making comments, but they're not Get kind of nervous, bro, they get nervous like You ain't got the BLT I caught the BLT the block letters and tomato sandwich. That's what I called All right, so yeah, so anyway, glad to have you all in please do me a favor ladies and gentlemen before we get started Please like this video if you are on YouTube or Facebook, please like please subscribe Facebook YouTube share the video Let people know grab a friend grab an enemy grab somebody that you don't like this would be a good conversation I think they'd be helpful for all of us to have this to have this discussion also if you like to Support the ministry financially me give you the information here to do so as before we get started So that way it'll be here For those who like to support the ministry finance You can do so through PayPal cash app sicklewoods at yahoo.com or Dollar sign sicklewoods for for cash app. You like to support the ministry through BCV you can do that right there BCV through teespring.com stores seco dash store dash to you can do it there And of course you'd like to reach out to me via email sicklewoods at yahoo Dot com so that is the information there for you those who choose to do so If you feel love the Lord to do that definitely appreciate the support and also I really appreciate the support of those you have been Who have been supporting this ministry financially the things that I do like you know the mics and things of that nature It's all helpful the research information, you know, Roy You know, it's the cost money to do this kind of stuff. So, you know, it's not always No, no, no, no, no, you know salvation is but then bills though So, yeah, but yeah, so I definitely appreciate the Support and it's appreciate and appreciate the prayers as well. So again, I'm joined here with Pastor Roy Dockery This is the first time that he and I have had a conversation publicly so Those of you who know me, you know, I don't have a script. I do believe in doing things decently in an order Of course, I believe in having organic And just real conversations. I believe that as brothers and sisters in Christ our first and foremost Mission should be to glorify God and all things and just why we always always say at the end of every every broadcast or every live You know, whether you eat drink or whatever you do do all to learn out of God It's not a cliche that is scripture. That's first Corinthians 10 31 So therefore we we should do everything that we can By the power of God by the grace of God about a spirit of God to the glory of God And so that is what I believe we are called to do. Of course, we don't all think alike If we did we will be unnecessary. Somebody will have to go and you'll be first so So, but yeah, I'm definitely I'm definitely excited to have this conversation Ladies and gentlemen, this is what some of you all have been waiting for Let me just go ahead and scroll up real quick. I already told already told Roy Let me look at this timeline here. This individual right here ladies and gentlemen Ruslan KD He came into the live. He came into the chat, you know Not not not at 6 p.m. Central Standard Time This dude came up in the chat first I mean like first in line like at Starbucks like first in line like at at best buy before, you know before the The the black Friday sale this dude popped up in the in the chat, you know at 535 Yeah, yeah, yeah 5 535 He did, you know, I don't think he was that early when he came on my live when I had him as a guest But I'm just saying I'm just saying Yeah, so he I think I think he looking forward to that I think if I had if I had a camera on he probably got his popcorn He probably got as you know, he's Russian drink, you know his vodka, you know saying he probably got that on their own lock on death Yeah, yeah, so But here we are ladies and gentlemen, we were gonna we're gonna discuss and talk about Systemic and institutional Racism I'm gonna read the title for those who may just be coming in so that way we have a Everywhere I can have a universal understanding of what we're gonna be discussing just at the forefront Are the systems institutions and laws primarily designed and or created that hinder harm and destroy the black community today? Today if so, what are they how should the church respond if these things are proven to be true? And how should the church respond if these things are proven to be false? So that is basically the the description that is basically the subject that we're gonna talk about now It doesn't mean that we can't you know move and and ebb and flow through any other topics that may you know Kind of like precipitate and and and come through through other conversations that we may have But I wanted to make sure that there's nothing that we Discussed Roar and I did that I'm not going to be bringing to his attention that he may not be aware of so The conversation is gonna be I believe it's gonna be full or I didn't mean I meant to ask you bro I know you had said did you you had other things you would just just finish doing Hope you got enough time. We hope you got at least an hour of stuff you have if not let me know I got time so Okay, I need if I need sustenance Get one of my kids to bring me something to eat if you yeah, yeah Your boy rules on time he had to go pee on my live I say bro Just just just just say, you know, you got to use you know, I gotta go pee I'm like, I mean do ready. I mean, okay. Thanks for keeping it real Let me go and give him a shout out bro here. Look at him. See I'm saying look You're welcome for helping set this up Patty and and Ruslan paid in this is not a spiritual gift. I'll just want to let you know that that's one That's not one of the 18 spiritual gifts. Just let you know that dog. All right. All right, so But yeah, I appreciate it and so how did how did this how did this live come about? How did this meeting, you know come to fruition? Well, glad you asked if you know, we had had a live conversation with Ruslan, I think a couple weeks ago I believe it was and So basically at the end of our live He had mentioned your name and said hey, you know, you know a password doctor said nah I never heard before I said man. He's dope me to bring them on. I said, okay I said if he wants to come up, we can come up and so here we are here We are and I'm glad to have you here man I want to give you opportunity man to introduce yourself for those who may not know you and Tell the tell the viewers in the audience a little bit about yourself, bro Yeah, man, so I'm a pastor Roy Dockery from from YouTube YouTube in the patreon community pastor Roy Dockery I was a Christian hip-hop artist for like 18 years I'm ex Navy me and Seiko just talked about that. Yeah, maybe nuke Currently, you know first ministry primarily, right? I'm married got three kids I'm here in North Carolina where we just moved to last summer But I've been all over the country and lived in multiple places my profession. I'm actually a health care technology executive I work in automation and robotics and so that's my full-time job and then I also serve As the outreach minister, so I'm over our cares ministry, which is compassion Advocacy relationship edification and service to our community at World Victory Church here in in Greensboro, North Carolina And then my family also has a private foundation where we help We help families and we sponsor a variety of activities where you combine art with outreach for discipleship and In artistry and you know all of that stuff so a lot of a lot of stuff going on But I've only been on YouTube since I don't know December roughly So December Yeah, so channel started taking off doing some things But you know, I do a lot of ass pastor Roy's sessions and I'm in different conversations that I have with mentees and things of that nature man So a lot of my content is kind of observations, right feedback I give professional advice right leadership advice free advice life advice All of that kind of stuff to people around the country from age 15 to To 58 right now in my community people of different races and from different countries. So yeah, good So you so you say you are you a pastor, right? Are you still pastoring right? You're still passing, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm a I'm one of the I'm a I'm on staff at a church here locally in in Greensboro Yep, okay. What's the what's your leadership name? What's the pastor's name? My path is Bishop Adrian Starks. Oh, yeah at World Victory and in Greensboro here Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. All right. Well, man. Listen, we're at it We're ready discuss what we want to talk about people already know what we want to talk about. It's not It's not new to anyone here. So I want to let people know We're just gonna have a dialogue I'm gonna have a dialogue. This is not about me trying to attack anything or attack anyone rather I believe that what we discuss if it's public it should be discussed publicly Anything that I post anything that I put out there, you know, you're not under any obligation to you know Hey, man, I need to talk to you about this problem. I mean you can that's fine I wouldn't have a problem with that. But if I put anything out there publicly then this is open for public, you know Discussion and even even debate dialogue or disagreement. So But yeah, so I wanted us to define our terms, of course, I believe that that's gonna be helpful We both agree to that To make sure that we understand each other to make sure that there's nothing that That may be said that may have a different meaning or understanding I do believe that words matter I do believe that God has given us the gift of language and and understanding and so my goal is to make sure that whatever I say It is clear It is based on on facts and most importantly that is biblical It is biblical and so since both of us are pastors and since both of us are Christians I don't think there'll be any disagreement or argument that Our positions need to land where scripture lands if it does not as long as it's not Sinful then we should have that freedom and liberty to let people move in the lane that God has called them to move But the moment or the nanosecond That those things cause other brothers and sisters to stumble the things that cause division it may cause people to have unnecessary Divisions and conflicts then we need that we need to pull it back and we need to reassess and ask ourselves some serious questions And what is what am I doing here? What is the purpose? What is what is my influence because all of us have influence? Whether you have two thousand followers two followers two hundred followers or two million followers each and every one of us Have influence and so God is going to hold us responsible based on the influence and the People that God has steward for us to care for and for us to disciple and to bring Them closer to Christ. So anyway, man, I wanted us to talk about this I want us to kind of like the layout our definition of defining some terms and so Racism Let me let me give you my definitions and if it's anything you disagree with Feel free let me know Where you may have a different view on that and then we can we can you know grow and build from that so Racism from what I've looked at these definitions and I know some of these definition may have morphed over time but just for the sake of conversation racism for what has been defined as prejudice based on race or One race being superior over others I think that we would probably agree Roy that we know that the term race is a is a social construct It's not something that we would see other than we would know that race with dealing with That one race is just in Christ or either actually to either in Christ or you were in Adam But yeah, there there is no Hierarchy or or class but but for the sake of conversation You know Racism is being defined as prejudice based on the ones ones race or color or Whatever like that a ones who idea of being superior Over over the other would you agree with that term so far? Um, I agree with that term with the way did it? The way did it defines like you know as far as prejudice being superior, right? And and like a mindset of inferiority over it. I guess from a right We normally talk about racism in action So and so I normally kind of tend towards there like in some literature. You'll see racism defined as Prejudice plus power For racism to actually be a force right not an observation not a personal conviction But for it to be a force someone has to have power to be able to to levy or allow that inferiority to have impact So that's the only thing I kind of add to it because when we talk about racism Especially from a systemic perspective right like that definition of racism That's normally in the dictionary and I don't I don't disagree with that but it's normally referring to like individual feelings And like individual kind of perspectives verses like what we would call right when people be like that's racist It's normally an action that somebody's calling racist right what somebody said what somebody called what somebody wrote So I like the so I normally will say it's kind of prejudice and an idea of inferiority But when you're talking about it in action It's someone has to have some kind of power that they're using that prejudice and that that kind of superior mindset To do something or to disenfranchise a group of people based on their race Okay, so I want to get down to these other definitions But I guess I'm just gonna go ahead and just go with the flow what we're talking about So I'm just gonna ask you this million-dollar question then Since you believe that racism is prejudice plus power Can black people be racist I Think black people can be racist right and that's why there's an individual Right like there's like an individual action of defining racism. There are black people who clearly identifies black supremacists So if you think if you're a black supremacist you think you're superior to another race By definition that we just use right that makes you so I think there are black people who think they're inferior I mean or superior but when you talk about it from a systemic perspective, right? Which is why I think we'll get to the systemic racism discussion There's power so if black people have power where they can deny access to people which I'm a vice president I run a global company I can clearly be racist and I can my company systemically racist because I could choose to not hire white people So Say what could you choose not to hire black people too? I could which would also make it systemically racist That's a new one that's a new one This is a woman right like I could choose not to hire women I can choose not to hire a homosexual because of my faith right like I have power in my position I get to determine Who works in my entire country in the US and Canada, right? I deny applicants Well, let me ask you this question. Let me ask you this question. So then if you're saying that racism Means prejudice plus power. Are you saying that if a person doesn't have power that they can't be resisted? And so it's I'm kind of like and that's why I'm saying there's like individual and then there's kind of the systemic Which I think we'll get in that definition. So the prejudice plus power for me I'm if I pull it back kind of reserve that for the systemic like racism in Action within systems and institutions Because any anybody can be racist, right? If you have an idea of inferiority or if you have an idea of supremacy or superiority Whether you're Hispanic black white right Asian, whatever you can be racist But for a system or for like a combination of processes that drives an outcome Which is how I would define a system like even from an engineering perspective for that system to be racist That means somebody in that system has a prejudice and they use that power Right to to basically benefit who they think is the superior person Right, right a variety of reasons one of them being raised would use okay So what what are those systems when you say when you say systemic or system systematic racism? What what systems do you believe? I guess today and I said we haven't got to the other definitions But I guess we're just flowing like this. No saying but yeah, what what systems do you believe? that exists today that are systemically designed for the harm or the hindrance of Black people today so My answer to your question is gonna be no, I don't think there are any systems specifically designed targeted to keep black people down And and I am studying to be a lawyer, so I'm very I'm very specific about questions But the reason I'm saying that is But in kind of defense of right out of love and grace for people who who have a very I guess a kind of sweeping definition of systemic racism, right like it's it's one thing to ask if the system is built for the detriment of people and Or to ask is the system built to my benefit? Right, so the system may not be built to specifically target Black people but if the system is built to the benefit of the white male Which is largely what America was constructed around what the Constitution was written for what the first ten Bill of Rights was clarifying Right, then there's a system built to the benefit of a group of people So if I'm if I'm if I'm intentionally trying to benefit the majority, right because America is a majority white country for now Even though it's diversifying then the minorities Wind up having a negative impact because the system is not built to their benefit What systems are that what's the name in integer interrupt? Maybe it may be a lie, but what what systems are you saying that may be? They could possibly be doing that or or that could cause minorities a particularly black folk. This is just we black Yeah, and this this is probably not gonna give you the definitive answer I think any system can be racist. Okay, so let me and to give you an example Right when you when I go back to utilizing prejudice plus power, right? So if we go to a very small component if you take a classroom for instance, right like would you consider a classroom a system? Yeah, so right so a classroom is a system, but the only person that that dictates what happens in that classroom is one teacher So Yeah, right because they've got the authority right they determine the outcomes they give the grades they Who's gifted they determine who's remedial they a lot of times have a lot of say in what the discipline is So if I have a racist teacher Even if it's 12, you know It could be a hundred teachers in a school if I have a racist teacher The children in that class are Experienced are having a systemically racist experience, but they're not what wouldn't racism have to be proven though It can't be assumed. We would have to prove that. Yeah, and even if I mean it's been proven, right? Like we've got teachers even throughout the pandemic I don't know if you've seen some of the news articles where teachers thought they were off Zoom Yeah, saying some reckless racist stuff about their students. This was college professors You know primary school secondary school and it's one teacher, right? It's not the entire school It's not the entire institution, right? That teacher has especially if you're talking about elementary school, right where you only have one teacher That teacher has the ability to hold the student back that teacher has the ability to put his child in remedial education That teacher has the ability to to recommend somebody for a gifted and talented program So if you have a racist teacher, right like the system is there The system isn't geared towards being negative to that black student But if nothing in that system is putting place to I mean, right if nothing in that system is checking One on that teacher to making sure she's being equitable if there's no, you know If nobody's reporting it because people don't know or they're unaware They didn't look at that like the right the school can have a black principal and a black assistant principal in a black neighborhood Right a racist teacher and then all the students who go through that class their grades are going to be impacted by race, right? Their discipline is impacted by race and I Mean what if it's not what I mean, let me let me let me push back a little bit So you saying there discipline could be affected by race, but what if it's not what if it's what if it's just based on their behavior? Because I think I think a lot of times the default the default button is automatically When we deal with black folk and it's a white person that's dealing with black children And they have to either expel them or put them out of the class then automatically, you know We want to throw the flag on the field and say oh, that's racism. Why why would it? Why does it always have to be racism when when in fact sometimes it could be black people matter of fact? I can I was reading us a story about Where is it here? Let me let me look at it here because I want to read this is I think this is gonna be important on What we're talking about here to Rory? Yeah, racial disparities in school discipline, right? I want to read this and we haven't got to the definition Also, just bear with us. We just we just we just did it with with racism just go on the first part. All right Good conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we ain't going away this weekend. You know one more day This is a racial disparities in school in school discipline. All right this is from late Dr. Walter E Williams and It was actually Dated in 2018 so I just want to read it a little excerpt of it y'all quote Gail Harriott a law professor at the University of San Diego and a member of the US Commission of Civil Rights and Her special assistant and counselor Allison so men have written an important article in the Texas review of law and politics title quote The Department of Education's ebom Obama era excuse me initiative on racial disparities in school discipline The article is about the Departments of Education and Justice's Disparate impact vision wherein they see racial discrimination as the factor that explains why black male students face suspension and Expulsion more often than other students faced with threats From the Department of Education's office for civil rights schools have instituted new disciplinary policies For example after the public school district in Oklahoma City was investigated by the OCR. There was a 42.5 percent decrease in the number of suspensions According to an article in the Oklahoma one teacher said quote Students are yelling cursing hitting and screaming at teachers and nothing is being done But teachers are being told to teach and ignore the behaviors end of quote According to chalk beat new high school teachers left one school because they didn't feel safe There have been cases in which students have assaulted teachers and returned to school the next day many of the complaints about black student Behavior here it is bro. Many of the complaints about black student behavior are coming from black teachers I doubt whether they could be accused of racial discrimination against black students The first vice president of the st. Paul, Minnesota chapter of the NAACP said it's quote Very disturbing in the quote that the school district would retaliate against a black teacher for quote simply voicing The concern and quote that when black students are not held accountable for misbehaving. They are set up for failure In life. I'm almost done. It says in an article in Education Week earlier this year titled quote When students assault teachers effects can be lasting in a quote Discusses the widespread assaults of teachers across the country in the 2015 and 2016 school year at five point eight percent of the nation's Three point eight million teachers were physically attacked by a student Almost ten percent were threatened with injury according to the federal Education data measures that propose harsh punishment for students who assault teachers have not been successful in North Carolina Your state, bro. No Carolina a bill was introduced that proposed that students 16 or older could be charged with a felony If they assaulted a teacher it was opposed here It is it was opposed by children's advocacy and disability rights groups in Minnesota 2016 bill would have required school boards to automatically expel a student who threatened or inflicted bodily harm On a student for up to a year It too was opposed even in light of the fact that teachers have suffered serious bodily harm such as the case In which a high school student slammed the teacher into a concrete wall and then squeezed his throat That teacher ended up with a traumatic brain injury and there are plenty of visuals of a sauce on teachers here The tiny sample of Florida Seminole Middle School, Pennsylvania's Cheltingham High School, Illinois's rich central high school and and so forth and so on it says The Justice Department of University of Texas in San Antonio says that according to his study of 1600 teachers About 44% of teachers who have been victims of physical assault said that being attacked had a negative impact on their job performance Nearly 30% said that they could no longer trust the student who had attacked them and 27% said that they thought of quitting their teaching care career afterwards. My question is this is what Dr. William said my question is is there any reason whatsoever for Adults to tolerate this kind of behavior from our young people so I read that man because I wanted to just give some context there because a lot of times when we talk about The education system we talk about, you know teachers and talk about students and how they learn it and and and I'm not sure if You have heard this this narrative before, you know, well white people don't understand black kids Well, well, I'm not understanding what that means behaviors behavior And I don't believe that sinful behavior should get a pass because you're black What do you think? Yeah, and so there's a there's a couple things and I like the I like the example that you gave for a couple reasons But there's there's one problem whenever people use statistics to create policies, right? So that's one problem. So like the original issue you discussed in that article Was them saying that they found a racial disparity in the way that children were being treated when it came to discipline But they only focused on discipline Right, they didn't talk about grades They didn't talk about the percentage of black students that are denied advanced programs, right? So we're only talking about discipline which as somebody who has a degree in education Right and ran the community service programs for gilford county schools for three years when I was in college Is a very small portion of education So if we so i'm just going to take it on the disciplinary and i'm going to leave out the stuff that I mentioned Which was right advanced programs kids getting remedial Getting bad grades which affects their gpa which affects their ability to get in college and earn more money When they're older because they've got teachers that could be racist. So Hold on. But hold on. Can we deal with the behavior for a part first? I was going to say though, so I'm gonna next slide, but I I want to make sure we're clear, right? I talked about all of those things On the discipline side, I completely agree, right? But this is the problem with policies, right the policy was children I mean what the data showed was that you know a black student and a white student would commit the same offense But the discipline applied to the black student black students were expelled at higher rates Black students got in school suspension at higher rates So that entire study was based off of bad students And the fact that black bad students got treated better than white bad students And then the policy correction Right or the policy correction if you look at that was okay. Let's not discipline students. That's just stupid policy Right, but that was because that that was because of the pushback for being accused of being racist Yeah That's right, but the way that you correct the way that you correct disproportionately Disciplining black kids for the same right like that's you know The problem was you got black kids getting disciplined and I've read some of that research Like if I get if me and a white kid getting a fight in a school I get expelled. He gets in school suspension That's not the same right, but is that always that is that always the same? But I just want to use that right because and so until your point into the until the gentleman's point that wrote that article The way that the schools tried to over correct that Was now since we're saying that our teachers are racist and disciplining Then we no longer allow our teachers to discipline. That's just a dumb policy Like I don't right like whether it was racial or whatever That's a bad policy that led to the conclusion you're talking about right because now And I'll give you an example because I have a lot of friends who are teachers because I went to college for education But then I joined the navy so all of the people I went to college with became teachers. Um So I'll give you an example. There was an older white woman. She's actually british She's not from the us at all. She um was is retired has mixed grandchildren, right? Like her you know her her son married a black woman all that stuff And so she was doing um, she was just uh substitute teaching So she's in the class and she came up the church She came to me a church crying about this when I lived in Delaware She's in class and there was a rule from the school a policy That you can't allow more than two people to go to the bathroom at the same time These are like seventh or eighth grade kids So three girls get up three young black girls get up to try to go to the bathroom And she says no only two of you can go right like that's a policy one of you have to stay in there Stay here they proceed to smack her book out of her hand. They threw stuff at her They called her the b they called her racist Right like for all of this and I got this old white lady looking at me like like roy What should I've done and is she called the principal the principal didn't do anything Because then the mom threatened to come down to the school and put hands on the substitute teacher That was racist towards her daughter like all of that is wrong like there's nothing right about that right, but That doesn't it it's still not addressing the fact that you had black students getting harsher punishments For the same disciplinary issues Then white students right like can I cannot can I add one point? What about the factor of offense? Would not would not offenses also escalate or cause more serious consequences I mean like if for example, if you have the same student same black kid Committing the same offenses Then would not the penalty for that person be more severe than the white kid that may have done it once I'm just putting it out there because again Right like and that's the way that the discipline should be should be plotted out Right, like if you you know, we all know from a criminal justice perspective, right? It's called a repeat offender for a reason You get more time When you repeat a fin, but so I don't disagree with that at all right I think the I think discipline should escalate right I think you need to keep physical threats out of the classroom Like I've got friends who have been you know like beat up and tried to get grabbed Like I don't think anybody should have to deal with that and make 30 to 60 thousand dollars a year as a public school teacher That's ridiculous. And that's why I'm not in education, but I right I agree with that right I agree with the fact that there was and so what and what I'm saying and At the end of that is I'm agreeing with you, right? I think the Was an overreaction right to the public stigma of y'all doing this to black kids And now everybody white kids black kids Asian kids everybody could choke out their teacher And and then nobody cares like that's not fair. That's not yeah But I want I want to add one point though, but again Why is racism being Being the default button that's being pushed because this black person Was dealt with quote-unquote harsher than the white student unless that's proven Then would would we not be Bearing false witness will we not be making a false accusation with our facts because and here's and let me give me Let me give a biblical example of that and this is this is going to tie into our our next our next definition Okay, uh perception All right perception because we all have perceptions. They all doesn't mean that our perception is always accurate So i'm thinking about two particular two particular instances of perceptions One in the old testament and one in the uh in the new Remember the story of hannah and first uh in first samuel one i believe versus nine three eighteen Uh remember she was uh, she was barren. She wanted to have a child Uh el el kena her husband, uh, you know was trying to you know console her But she was pouring out her heart Uh to the lord the text says I believe that elie observed He he he observed he perceived her demeanor and her behavior as one as a as a drunken woman Because she wasn't saying anything But her mannerisms right her lips were moving but nothing was coming out and so So elie made a a a perception Which was a wrong perception and then it became a wrong pronouncement of of a judgment against her And he said put away your wine from you. How long are you gonna be drinking your wine? He said and she said no my lord. I'm not drinking any wine I'm pouring out my soul to the lord because i'm i'm grieving, you know, uh out of the anguish in my heart and so um I believe that there are times that we can perceive something And it may look or it may even appear To be true But if we don't have the facts of it Then the bible says in proverbs 18 13 he who gives an answer before he or she hears is a filing and a shame to them And so then I believe I believe another example in the new testament, uh and acts too You know on pentecost, you know, uh paul me not paul, but peter and the in the apostles The uh the holy spirit comes upon them. They they they speak with uh with new languages And the uh the multitudes looking at them like man, they they look like they fooled they lit and and peter had to tell them like No, dude, I'm we're not we're not drunk. Are you supposed, you know, I'm saying it's it's it's only the ninth hour, right? And so their perception again of of of what they saw It wasn't if they actually saw it But it was not the reality was not the truth of what had happened I believe a lot of times man, if we're not careful Our perceptions can can make the wrong pronouncements and then we are labeling things Races or labeling things injustice and it's not so I wanted to put that I want to get to talk about that Yeah, I like that right and I don't I don't again I don't know how many of your videos you my videos you've got to watch But one of the things I consistently say that is if you call everything racist then nothing is racist That's why I like defining What I mean by racism and we talked about that a little bit before because there's also um, and I just finished I got the pre-read Jerome Gay's book the whitewashing of christianity Um, and so I got an advanced copy that and got to read it, but it's like there's racial ignorance There's racial insensitivity Right, there's racial indifference and then there's racism And if we call all of those things racism Then like you're you're defeating the purpose right because I can't address when it's everything is the boogie man, right? So yeah, you're and so like I said in the example that you gave like there's plenty of data about the disparities in teaching, right? I mean in discipline and um In uh, like advanced placement classes like there's data out there. There's facts out there on that Right I want you to define that I want you to define what disparity because that's that's that's another definition I wanted us to talk about yeah But then the the difficult thing right is then okay If even if I have data That states that this is a fact then I automatically and to your point and I agree I can't assume every time a black student is disciplined That it is now because of race even if I have data if I have statistical information research and proof That says You know black students are disciplined at a higher rate that does first of all it doesn't mean they didn't do anything Right. So the placement may be greater But it didn't mean that they didn't have an infraction, right? That led to them that there was a behavioral issue to begin with right so And so I think that's the problem. Um, but yeah when we right and you said disparity, right? So it's like you have a definitely I have a definition I want but I want to know if you had a definition to get help people understand when you say disparity What do you mean by disparity when I when I say disparity? I literally mean that you Be looking at something at the same time And we can have disparate views of what we're looking at Right just based on observation perception information. We have experience I can look at something you can look at something you might say it's racist I might say it's not racist But we both observe the same exact thing and then there's a disparity in our conclusion Right, so there's that you can have the and this this happens all the time with research, right? You can you can look up a research paper and then there are 12 books written Where 12 people came to 10 different conclusions on the same exact research Right because it's a lot of times it's so to me it's people Disparity is looking at the same information or even looking at the same situation But then people coming to different conclusions Okay, so now so I define disparity and it may be kind of tying into what you're saying, but I'm I define the spread I'm just giving the definitions that what has been, you know Has been posted the disparity is defined as the condition of being unequal. It can be unequal in age rank It can be in the levels of degree or difference. So Would you say that would you say that? Disparities automatically equal discrimination In a negative sense No, right because disparity can be based on um, I forgot who said it. I just heard it the other day, right equity does not equal outcome Right, so if if if I if you and I do the same thing if I you give us the same test Or we have to complete the same task, right? Like that's what you gave us both the same thing right somebody gave us wood to build the fence Right, but you and I may not build the same fence because the outcome is based on right the motivation The effort that's put in the education the skill level or whatever So you can have something that's unequal, but it's unequal for a reason. Okay, so would you say would you say that? Okay, so let me make sure I'm understanding what you're saying then um Would you are would you say or are you saying? that disparities Automatically equate to racism and and the reason why I'm asking that is because That is the best the narrative if you if you watch the news or read You know articles of stories or hear the media every time we talk about I mean we as people Every time you hear people talk about all disparity disparity automatically is discrimination automatically is racism And I'm saying okay Disparities does not equal racism and disparities is always necessarily equal discrimination in a negative sense That can be unequal. Like you said outcomes, but it does not mean that there's racism. What's your thoughts about that? Exactly. Yeah, just disparity does not automatically equal discrimination, right disparity does not automatically equal Racism right or some kind of systemic Obstacle right like I said like if you and I had 10 feet of lumber And we needed to build a ladder Right, I could build a short small right I could build a complex footstool and it only get me two feet off the ground You could build a five foot ladder with a 10 feet like right like as long as you're giving the same the same resource right to me discrimination Is giving somebody an eight foot ladder and telling them to reach something at 12 feet when everybody else has a 10 foot ladder That's discrimination. You want me to you want you want to give me an opportunity But you're already kind of short you're shorting to me to begin with right or you're not giving me the same resources other people have That's discrimination, but the disparity does not equal Right, like it doesn't that right something can be unequal for very valid reasons, right? Like it's not always race or class or gender. Yeah, okay So go go back to the ladder go back to the ladder illustration then so and I think there's and I'm pitching in my mind, you know, three people Uh standing, you know standing behind the fence And you get a tall dude medium-sized dude and you get a you get a short napoleon You know little webster Arnold from, you know, different strokes dude, right? um Is the tall guy wrong For not giving the short dude a ladder Or is the short the short dude get his own ladder if he if he's able to get his ladder to be able to To be able to raise himself up to where he can see and I'm just putting it out there just for for for an example of Of illustration I'm saying is it the tall dude's fault for being tall that he can see and the middle guy's fault You know tall I'm gonna be fault because he can see but the short guy he can't see So should the other two other two dudes feel guilty because the third dude the shorty Is not able to see what everybody else is seeing If and I and again, I'll answer it from a secular perspective No, as christians then yeah because we should do to help the least of those amongst us, right? So if there's a short person in the grocery store and they're trying to reach and I'm giving a real example because I'm 62 right So often in the grocery store and it's some short lady asking me if I can grab something off the top shelf Right, what do I tell her to get over it and go grab a lab or I can just grab it and give it to her because It's a it's a privilege to be tall when you're trying to and I actually There's an article on my website. That's called How to use your advantage and I actually talk about supremacy In privilege talking about height, which is funny. You use that example Because I was just born this way, right? I'm just all right watching somebody else struggle because they're short Like I'm not better. I didn't put any more effort. I just happened to be born tall. So like yeah I think that's the difference though That's the difference equity perspective, right? Like if we're all and and you use the fence So it throws it off a little bit because I'm like me metaphorically What is the fence but if we're on the ground, right? If we're all on the ground and it's level playing field and someone's short Someone's tall someone's right someone's skinny. Like that's just those are disparities, right? Like we just talked about everything isn't equal And maybe everybody needs to get to an outcome, but if I'm tall I've got a longer gate So yeah, it'll take me less steps to get 20 feet than somebody who's 4 1 but As long as nothing's in my way Right as long as there's not a hurdle Then we all just based on our makeup, right have to put in that effort to get 20 feet But if the short guy is short and also has a ditch that he has to crawl through And barbed wire and I don't have that then that's not equitable. You know what I'm saying? So Okay, so I'm gonna say I'm gonna talk about equity then so here's the question Does the bible does the bible? Speak about equity. Does the bible talk about, you know, uh, social equity in other words Do we see examples in scripture where everyone has the same equal outcome? But let's see you just said equity, but you jumped to outcome Right. I just said a minute ago that equity has but in my right from my perspective equity has nothing to do with outcome But that's what equity is equity is equity is is a as our outcome equality Is based on being being equal to and being the same as another individual but equity is the equality of outcomes So if you're talking about all three people being on the same level playing field, but this individual that's short That's how God made them But the other two the other two taller gentlemen Shouldn't feel guilty because God gave them extra height But neither should those two mock the short person because they're not at the at the at the height that they are But I believe that the scripture the scriptures speak Uh regarding number one God is responsible and God is sovereign over who gets what and who has what so i'm 5 11 you're 6 2 Yeah, okay, so that's unfair so Yeah, and it's and it's not fair. It's so and just go and um, let's to go back real quick Right because I like and again because we we didn't get to define equity Before before we jumped into that conversation That's why you and I have been used because you said equity is the is the quality Did you say the the equality of outcome the equity is just as according to natural law or right freedom from bias and or favoritism It's also it is also Equal outcomes It's defined as that as well too So the definition I normally think of is kind of the first one you give right like and its equity is the quality of being fair and impartial So it's impartiality. So we know the bible has a problem with partiality. Absolutely partiality would be equitable But I I appreciate that because it's what definition right using right because when I talk about equity i'm talking about being fair Right like equity to me is right. It's the quality of being fair like that's the definition of equity Okay, so fair fair like how okay, so so do you believe Do you believe that everybody should have the same of everything? I mean like you just mentioned that you uh, you uh, you're you study nuclear physics, right? Yeah, and and you have matter of fact. We were talking about our houses. So you're sitting on Half an acre of land Yep Okay, I know we know some black people that ain't don't have that right why don't they have it and you do You see i'm saying so it's like yeah, if we if we're if we're talking about Equal outcomes then that's anti-gospel And yeah, I want to agree with you there and so that's why when I say equity I'm not talking about equal outcomes when I say equity i'm talking about and again, right? Like I I grew up in a hood You know i'm saying like I come from a single family home You know what I mean like stepdad was a drug dealer and a gangbanger so like from a from a starting place perspective, right? Like I didn't start where some people did I started you know above or below where other people did so My outcome currently is based on my effort My outcome is based on me getting three bachelor's degrees and a master's degree My outcome is based on going into military and studying one of the most one of the most difficult Um traits there and going in there Um, there's an outcome for that. So when I'm saying fair Um to use like a really basic illustration of what I mean by equity I kind of just used it when we talked about all the people at a different height Right, like there's there's equity to me means we're all like we're all on the football field We're all zero yard line And that's fair Right, I don't care how tall you are how short you are how how much in shape you are because that's an individual trait But the but if the system if the scenario Is set up equitably, right? It would be fair if we lined everybody up right on the zero yard line If I put somebody on the 10 yard line, that's an advantage If I put somebody at the back of the end zone, that's a disadvantage So that would that be but would that be wrong if that's that person's field What do you mean if it's if it's their field like say say say I own the football field, right? And here's a 10 yard line or whatever and I say, okay, you know, rory I want you I want you 10 yards up Not because of anything. I mean not because I like you or nothing I'm just I'm making a decision because it's my field And this is I have that that authority or that power or whatever right to do that Okay, I want to put you 10 yards up. I want to put this person right where they are and this person five yards back Yeah Can we can we say that that's uh injustice or can we say that that's a form of racism? Or can we say that that's partiality? Without without having any facts or evidence of the motivation of the individual's heart to say Hey, why did you give rory 10 yards? You know ahead of this person and five yards ahead of five yards back from this person You see I'm saying we what I've what I've noticed is that people don't even ask questions They just assume and say hey Here's what I see this is wrong. This is racism. This is injustice Let's march, which I don't see the bible telling christians to march. That's another topic for another time I ain't gonna go there with you yet. I ain't gonna go there with you. But but but I see that that's the problem We're not we're not asking questions. We're making assumptions and they're making those assumptions the standard that is That is the norm for people to try to follow. Wait a minute. What the ruse line say? This conclusion that seco is about to go to so whack when it comes to scripture and how to apply to society ruse line don't want you Let's stick on subject. I don't even have comments up honestly, because I'm trying to give you I'm gonna see it, but that's fine because rude gonna had his opportunity. He did. He dropped the ball But anyway, um, so my point is if if if if christ gives us a parable and and mathy 25 Matter of fact, I want us to if you got your bible. Let's let's look at it real quick I know it's it ain't sunday yet, but let's let's go there real quick Let's go to real quick Matthew 25 And I'm at i'm at verse 14 Because this is still on the this is still on the on the subject of Of equity. Yeah, okay, so I'm looking at Matthew 25 the parable of the talents verse 14 Let me know you got it and I'll read it if when you read it, okay So it says for this just like a man about to go on a journey who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them Verse 15 into one. He gave five Talents to another two and to another one and here and here's the here's the catch. Here's the purpose Each according to his own ability. So now Christ who's sovereign who knows He gives one man five one man two and one man one. Why didn't he just give all of them five talents Yeah, why didn't why didn't jesus give them all five talents? Why didn't why didn't jesus say, you know what? They all they all made the amago day. So so equality that's already established. Yeah, maybe the amago day, right? but the outcomes or or or one's abilities or one's skills or or one's uh, uh effort Is going to be seen in how they handle these talents. So my question is how how could we If we're talking about everybody having and I don't think you are but I but I'm I'm still I guess Trying to put that out there for those who believe that You know I'm saying that equity has to be Everybody having you know equal opportunity communism, right equity That that all of that But I can you just you kind of you answered your question a little bit, right? Because jesus said that i'm giving based on their talent, but and and again I don't know exactly where it is, but I don't think you might disagree with the story when you had the parable um When you had the parable of the of the workers, right? And then you had those and jesus said this is how much you're being paid for the day for that day Yes, came at the end of the day and then the people would have been there all day got mad It was like how are you like how are you paying in the same amount? It was like that's what I said. I was paying for the day. Now you agree to it. Yeah You agree to it. So the other thing too. I'm I'm starting to hear an echo. Where's that coming from? Okay Okay, um But yeah, and so in that right because it In that scenario jesus basically said right like he's saying like this is based on this is this is compensation I'm giving this based on their their value right their input what they've done what they've proven what I know They're capable of doing And even in that right he just and he distributed it and had an expectation so Every scenario right that's like if I have a if I have a prize for first second and third place I don't have to make the prize for first second and third place the same I can make first place ten thousand dollars. I can make second place five Right and like you all run the race, but depending on when you finish Then you're awarded that prize based on how it was based on how the rules were set up to begin with Right, would you would you agree though? But still would you agree even with the fact that Jesus gave those those three men different different talents different matter of fact Different amounts of money because that's what it was it was money so I think that what's what's the slap in the face or I believe What speaks against people saying that you know, there's this you know, there's injustice in And in wage earning and things of that nature I think that now we have to prove that because again if the if as christians if christians are called To speak truth and if we're called to judge based on facts and not feelings and and assumptions, right? Then we have to say okay. Why did this person get more money than this person? Why did this want me get less than this than this man? You know I'm saying we There are there are factors that may be involved in there. We we know based on based on, you know, the dad and research that women Uh, they don't stay at the jobs longer than most men at certain in certain positions There they have maternity leave and things of that nature there There are other factors and it's not it's not always because of their Their skin color or their or their gender per se that they're being discriminated against Go ahead because I because we're we're getting away from your illustration real quick And I didn't get a chance to answer when you said go ahead It's just to answer like right if if I own the football field, right? And I want to say you started 10 You started 5 you go back to the bathroom, right? A private and this is the one thing and and and again I say it on my channel A private company an individual has the full right, right? You and I both raised a hand to you know, to Constitution the constitution gives a private citizen the right to discriminate to be racist to not like you To not hire you if you're black to not hire if you gay to not hire if you christian Private citizens can do that right so when I'm talking about a system that needs to be held accountable The only system that has to bear the burden in the responsibility of the constitution is the united states government Right like so that's you know when you had discrimination everybody else unless you volunteer to say I'm an equal opportunity employer Title nine doesn't apply to you right and and I give it like because people got on What's my store people got on hobby lobby Because lobby refused to provide birth control right hobby lobby did not hire christians if it doesn't want to it is a private Company it is allowed to discriminate churches right your church don't have to hire a muslim secretary Your church is allowed to only employ christians. They are allowed to discriminate But you can't call yourself an equal opportunity employer And put yourself under the law Of equal opportunity because you want tax benefits for title nine you want tax benefits for gender equality So and so I just want to say I think a private person can do whatever you want right like your business do what you will And then and and I say this sometimes and people think i'm playing i'm was i'm fine with a white only sign Put a white only sign back on the building and the reason being right you get a choice. It's a free country But to me I want I want that to be known If you don't want money from black folk because you think i'm unprofessional and whatever else put it on your website And I just won't spend money there Right like I don't I don't want to patronize people that that think i'm less than human And they don't respect the image of god that I made in like i'm fine with not shopping at your business That's fine like I don't have a problem with and it sounds weird But I don't have a problem with businesses that want to discriminate just let me know And then I can choose with my economic power with my purchasing power with my influence because everybody has influence As you stated earlier if I choose to shop there or not, right? But then trying to gaslight everybody Over everything I think is is unnecessary as well, right? Like it's yeah, and there's a lot to it So in like I said in that example I think that's up to that person right and then the people who go to that stadium the people who play on that football team The people who work in that football field have to look at that information and come to a conclusion right because Because other than that it's really hard. Um, it's really hard to prove racism Right say that again I want I want you to I want say that again because I want that to be on record for the second time for the case Somebody didn't hear it the first time. Yeah It's hard to prove racism right if you look at the court of law right like racism is a you normally need a preponderance of evidence Right like I've got to prove and so in your example, right? I've got to prove that every time you hired a black person you put them at minus five Every time you hired a white person you put them at plus 10 The only thing I got to do to throw off that whole scenario is put one black person at the 10 yard line Then you can't prove it's racist. So yeah, I put five black people At minus five, but I also put a black person at 10. I also put a black person at five So is that racist right and then it's it becomes this Subjective thing unless you have like all of this massive amounts of data or you get somebody on tape Right calling them to inward in the break room and then they you know, I mean and then they get But there is a lot right there's a there's a lot of and I'll agree with you And you've kind of alluded to it a couple times that it's our like, you know even Sean king Right like everything that comes out It's automatically like this person needs to get fired this person is racist like what's their address What's their license plate like let's go ride on them and I'm like, uh Like do we do we know what occurred in this situation? Right like honestly I went to you know, I went I was in leadership in a majority white church For like five years two different churches And I know a lot of white people who love jesus, right, but are racially ignorant Right because they don't know a lot of black people They don't have a relationship with black people and their stuff even now I like I mentor other executives who call me to ask me racial questions So that they don't get gas lit at work They're like, hey Roy, look, I got a question on George Floyd Let me ask you this question because they know that I'm like, I'm not going to jump to the conclusion at your racist I'm going to let you get the thought out And then I'm going to write I'm going to try to either give you some information or point you to a source Or help you understand a perspective Um, so that you're you're kind of more informed, but it's and like I said, it annoys me I have a I actually got a video brother and I didn't tell you this earlier that I haven't released yet Okay, um, should we be demonizing racism? And I don't think we should right? I think we gaslight racism too much Where people are afraid to have racial conversations people are do you do you believe that racism is a sin? I think that so if we're talking about it from a biblical perspective I'm only biblical I believe withholding love from anybody which is a command from god because of their color the color of their skin is a sin Right and like from a christian perspective. That's how I define racism, right? God said love your neighbor Right, and if you choose not to love somebody because of the color of their skin and some people call it partiality Then I feel like that is racism and that And I you know, I cut that sword in both directions Whether you white black asian. I know some black people who really you in texas It's some black people real racist against mexicans. Oh, definitely. And I'm like I'm glad you see this is this I believe this is this is uh Somewhat monumental. I don't know if your man rouge line knew this Uh about what you said because again, you know I had asked him the question and and and I I got a video queued up because I wanted to get oh, yeah I got I got I got to play the receipts though. I gotta play with you. You probably receipts on me. I thought you wouldn't All right Yeah, it's public it's public but but but hit my point my point is I asked rouge line this question Yeah, he was on my live. I said And you probably saw but you know, you say you didn't want you don't really watch video Okay, okay, so let me just do this then let me just do this then I'm gonna go and just answer the question Let me put the video up and then that way you can You can see it for yourself. Let me go ahead and share the screen here and uh, let's do this. Um Share the screen and then I'm going to Do this one All right, what I'm gonna play first. Well, you know what? I'm I'm gonna mess with you first though. Let me let me mess with you. Let me mess with you Let me mess with you real quick. I want I'm gonna I'm gonna read this real quick. Hold on Bear with me ladies and gentlemen. Um Here's I'm gonna read some to you and I want to get you I want to get your honest thoughts about this. All right so Here's some statements that were made And then I want to get your I want to get your your critique on this Um, here we go. All right now We we talked about racism. I want to I want to know if what your thoughts are about this statement. Here it is right here Um Black and white theology. Can you see that? Yep Okay, now folks are going to respond by saying that learning from christians of an african heritage is far It's far different than uh learning from the participants in a radical reformation more over Learning specifically from african-american theologians is certainly not the same. Okay, sure. I agree But let's face the hard truth the white european western society christians are truly the ones Who not only preserve christian orthodoxy for for everyone Including recapturing the bible in the original languages They are the ones who shape the course of protestant christianity throughout the world and specifically here in the united states I don't mean to be dismissive of their contribution I I love when people say that and then they put the butt claws in there But african-american christians are a small portion built upon the main foundation That just so happens to be according to god's providence a white A white, what's it doing? What is it doing right now? Let me finish dog A white western european english one A seminary with a three or the four year track designed to train men to uh as exposition of preachers rather Must stay focused on the foundational matters and that regrettably edit subjects others may believe are important. There is nothing nothing rory nothing Racist about that. Let's say you sir. What what do you say about that statement there? First of all, i'ma say everybody needs to go get You know i'm saying uh A copy of the white washing of christianity by geron gay and the literally Why don't you tell geron do me a favor? Why don't you tell rome rome to run me a copy and then i'ma bring him on my life Yeah, yeah, i'll get it. I'll get into seeing you a physical copy. I'll love him I'll face top it when we get done So because he looks it was a place to have a conversation Right, but um, and he literally has a chapter on that like exact statement and it was actually a quote from um I put something we know No, it was from we got answers. So like we got answers or like bible answers.com or whatever There somebody had asked a question a question got questions.org. That's what it was Yeah, he has a whole section of his book where somebody had like their response on god questions.org was basically what you just read To the person is christianity to white man's religion And they gave essentially that answer Right like ignoring Ignoring so many historical things and when you have to preface or close with that's not racist Then that's normally because it's racist right to call A religion that started in that that was you know that grew in and and and was edified in northern africa The a european western like it's disingenuous. It's you know what I mean? It's disrespectful to the history Right church right like the the constantinian leg and arm of christianity Was hundreds of years after christianity have been founded and there's been people throughout history Right who were black even in the u.s. Right when you look at the ame church when you look at um like you know Grim key and you know, um and uh Crumble and there are people but like you know, first of all weren't allowed to read For a long time. So that you know that kind of delay scholarship when you're not allowed to be um, you know what you gotta do is read uh ogans book uh the uh African christianity that shaped the western mind. I mean that And I think though right and you and I mean and I know even you right being a little bit more conservative, right? In your in your social views We should we should be conservative You know conserving the lords were uh, the political conservatism sliding. That's gonna be another conversation. That's gonna be another conversation Yeah, so But um, yeah, man, I think it's stuff like that and that's what I love gerome said in his book He was like stuff like that contributes to lostness Like you and I already know we got to contend with this whole concept of like the the white man's religion and institutional racism, right and the institutionalized black mind relying on white entitlements and liberalism in the You know i'm saying to survive and when you put stuff out there like that that just isn't true Like what are you referencing? And I think also and I think also at the same time I mean, it's it's it's a slap in the face of effusions 220 What the bible says that the foundations Of is is laid upon the apostles and the prophets with christ Jesus being a cheap cornerstone So so man in the foundation Eastern north african people last time I checked but yeah, yeah, yeah, you are the foundation Yeah, so now but you know, it probably is true They are the foundation of american christianity, which is a far departure from what the disciples did anyway, so they can have credit for that but Let me ask you this so so needless to say you take issue and take umbrage with that statement, right? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Now. Let me run. Let me run this one to you. I'm about to mess you up, bro This this bear with me this bear with me. I'm kind of enjoying it. I'm gonna let everybody know He told me he ain't handled like a little trick This ain't no trick and I also said if it's public I'm gonna put that joint out. I'm just saying he ain't provide me none of this before Let me do this one here. I want to play this one and um And in that way you can you can you can hear this one yourself now Uh, make sure you get a good drink. I want you to spit it out over the screen when you hear this one, bro All right, so this is this one gonna be rather Yeah, rather interesting to say the least here. All right, here we go Can you see that? It's coming up now. There we go. You got it. All right. Okay. Do you know who this gentleman is? Nope. All right. I'll tell you who he is later Let me go ahead and run this you ready? Yeah, you see the title how to view the flaws of the reformers You see that? Yeah. All right, mother run it One of my favorite theologians in america is rl. Dabney. He was a Presbyterian theologian and I firmly believe that he would be remembered as america's greatest theologian ever Except that he got embroiled in the civil war. He was a southern presbyterian during the time of the civil war He was the the chaplain to a stonewall jackson. So he was Actually in the military and fought uh for the south in the war And when the south lost he became embittered and never really got over it and some of his later writings also are racist, you know just racist And so much so that when uh the banner of truth published His collected writings on essays and stuff like that. It's called discussions It's actually my favorite set of books of all the books on my shelf That's the one I would least like to to lose because there's some just brilliant material in there But when banner of it was originally four volumes and when banner of truth picked it up and published it They made it three volumes because they took out there was so much Racist material at the end that they had to take out So they deleted half of volume three and most of volume four and put it in three volumes Uh, and I look at dabney and I think what a shame. What a shame. I mean he was a product of his times Uh And what a shame that you couldn't rise above that and see beyond that because he understood Doctrine and loved the scriptures and loved christ and I'm sure his level of spiritual maturity was far beyond mine So, uh, I feel bad even criticizing him, but you have to step back and look at that and say He like like all those reformers was a flawed man and sometimes our flaws outlive And sometimes even overshadow our good qualities You know, it's one of my fears frankly because I put a lot of stuff on the internet and Uh, over the years some of the things I've written on the internet have made people angry and and I hope You know succeeding generations don't look and look back and say that the thing that stands out about me is that I was of You know sarcastic Bad mouth or I recognize I have flaws just like those men I Sir You're all right. You good. Oh no, I can me let me see Yeah, my back. Yeah, I'm muted because I was coughing. So I thought you was cussing I was coughing. I'm like, let me put it on mute. That's why I'm trying to Trying to deal with this uh, these allergies out here, man But it's crazy in it and again man, and I'm really not trying to plug Jerome's book But he's got a whole section called product of the culture and that man almost just literally said the phrase That he was a product of his time Right, so it's like I can you know, I can applaud and appreciate his theology and his doctrine But then when there's parts of his character and I guess with you know Some of the people write the difference between your orthodoxy and your orthopraxy When I see through your writings that you had almost a vehement hatred towards black people Oh, you know, you know, it was no semen. No, he hate him. He definitely hate him Right, like so I'm gonna pull them out the volumes and the rest of the stuff you said was valid, right? So it's like it's like writing a book like, you know, you put out a book on marriage And then I find out you actually been divorced the whole time and we're like, it's a real good book though Like it's it's not true and it's it's it's just crazy, man But that's and I mean there's a lot of that right in the puritans and the reformers and when it comes to race And um in some of their perspectives and how they were very much Right openly for the dehumanization Um and uh in the disrespect of the amago day of people as long as they were Not caucasian, um, but but yeah, but it just gets excused, right? Which is which is funny which again leads the lostness because people see that and then they're like see that's why I don't rock with christians because Right, it's unfortunate. That was his words like this man was unfortunate and hated black folk and and did stuff probably right back then You were allowed to do some horrible things the black people if you didn't like them Yeah, and and and here that's his that's his favorite race. That's his favorite theologian All right So So we keep in mind right and this is what we see in a lot of kind of like white christian spaces, right? Is that and I said it in one of my videos America has always chose to compromise with racism America, I mean the american church Right, so it's like it's not that bad and that guy just said it was like Yeah, he had slaves but he wrote a really good book and uh, he had slaves But that declaration of independence is on point like like the church and america overall Honestly until and I would say you're starting to see and it's still not there But you're starting to see where the majority of the country From a population perspective, especially the white majority population Is not okay With just letting things be racist right when you keep in mind that strong thurman Who was a open segregationist open? This was literally in office. I think until like right before obama got elected or like in 2008 Like he died At work and that man was still for segregation and kept getting reelected Year after year, you know civil rights act passed and for almost 40 40 years This man got reelected in his city as a racial Segregationist completely against integration And they still put him in office that entire time But they were like but he was a good man When he died right and it was like he did some good, you know, you know, your boy, you know, your boy, obama attended, you know A racist funeral that biden had eulogized Well, first of all, you just called obama my boy and he's not Yeah, i'm just saying your boy, you know, just just just put it out there. I'm just saying I know you're talking to the people. I'm respect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, YouTube right now I know you just heard somebody in the comment section. Um, go tell him whose funeral was he at I don't know who funeral you're talking about It was it was uh, joe biden's uh mentor and uh, robert bird is his name Okay, robert bird was you know, I used to live in delaware, bro So, um, I know all of joe biden's uh racist past and the bills and stuff that he did the legislate Did you did you vote for him? I did you vote you you voted for biden, huh? I did can I can I just can I just ask a question that that we made? I want let me let me pull over for a second Let me pull over real quick put the flashes on Um, what was your biblical reason for voting for someone whose policies Were diametrically opposed to the scriptures as a christian Well, first like first of all all of his policies are not diametrically opposed, right? There are policies in everybody's platform on the right or the left that are in opposition To to biblical ideals, right? So give me give me one from the right. That's that's that would be an opposition to the scriptures um The platform the the policies they believe Yeah, like I'm not a republican so I don't know the policies are No, you said both you said both left and right, so I don't Like so for instance school like and I so I can use um school public school for instance, right? Like trying to shift public education to voucher programs to give people choice Is is a benefit to middle-class families, right? If you give someone a voucher to attend whatever school they want, but the children don't have actual transportation And you're not Can ask the question whose fault is that the supply of transportation? It's not the government's it's not the government's responsibility to supply education in first place But if they but if but they do And I agree listen I agree with that part. I agree that they do Yeah, but it's not but it's not the government's responsibility To give you a ride to school It's not Okay, so The requirement which they did right like the department of education Is established the public school system is it is nationally and locally driven. I completely my children are home school my children My house so exactly so that's my point. So I'm asking so I'm asking the question So You said so are you an opposition to school vouchers that so are you let me put it this way Are you an opposition of parents having the right to decide where they want to send their children to be educated? No, not at all. I think people should have that opportunity But with that I think you can't use that as an excuse to not make sure that the level of education Afforded in public education is again equitable, right? They don't believe in equity. They don't believe in equity. They they believe number one democrat party is Is ran by the teachers unit They run they run the schools and how they want their those students to be locked in So my point is if if and it's and it's going my policy. It's going my policies, right? Yeah, if this party says democrats party says No, you don't have a choice to where you're gonna send your kids We're gonna tell you what it's in your kids and this party over here says um You have a right because you're the parent You have the you have the god-given authority and right just to to decide where and how you want your children to be educated Which one aligns with the biblical premise? but But what i'm saying is that you're putting right from you're talking about a biblical perspective for a secular organization The government is not The government is ordained by god But but we would agree we would agree that they're out of bounds and the things that they're doing But what I am saying is is that if you are if you are allowing the government To decide where you can educate your children That's unbiblical But if if the if the if a party is saying well, wait a minute the government Uh, it is responsible to us. We the people we we're supposed to be the representatives It's supposed to be a it's supposed to be a constitutional republic It's not supposed to be telling us how we are to educate our children How we are to run our families and that is going beyond it's jurisdiction So if this party is saying well, you can't send your child over here But you can send your child over there. It's kind of like with ferro You can only go so far to worship but come back, you know, I'm saying And I don't but I've never really seen a democratic party. That's against people going um a democratic party against people Trying to put like if I want to put my kid in private school in christian school or whatever I can pay for that. That's money out of my heart From an education perspective and I and I don't necessarily care much for the teachers union either But the one problem that I see is that When we go we we don't do we can't do both and it always has to be either or so it's either The public everyone says the public school systems flaw the educate, you know, the the money isn't equally distributed So then we say then let everybody send their kids wherever they want to go And then people can fix their own problem, but that doesn't solve the issue of underfunded schools Right, it doesn't solve the issue of parents who may not have the opportunity and again as a christian, right? Like I feel like doing unto the least of these I don't want a child to have a poor education because his mother Doesn't have transportation Right, so that's not that child's fault Who's responsible then who's responsible for the education and and and up You know upbringing of of the child is it is it the state? Is it the church? Is it family? It's it's a family right from a biblical perspective. That's what I believe right so But again, like the the the point the government right is for the just and the unjust it rains on us both alike So I'm a christian. I've got christian principles I got christian values and my finances in a way. I educate my children But like the the muslim or the you know the the non-believer or the backslidden person I'm just supposed to disregard their kids education because their parents are making bad decisions Well, but then that goes back to responsibility then too as well too and I think that that's another element that we miss in our culture I agree right and so and that's why I'm saying from so if the government is going to offer a service of public education Which the reason public education is there is to try to allow some You right to try to kind of level the playing fields with certain regard to make sure people are getting The education that they need right? I wish you know like I'm really you could say all my kids are in public school So and I did not become a public school teacher after working in public schools for three years But I think it's I think it's a broken system and a lot of it comes from funding a lot of it has to do What responsibility but my like the way that I thank you because most of my ministry is in Impoverished communities and that's where I grew up like my my heart and then to a certain degree My politics kind of play towards the least of them amongst us because honestly everybody else I feel if you're a middle class Right and you've got a problem with where your kids are getting educated and me and my wife just had this conversation Um with some friends of ours in Delaware then take your kids somewhere else Right, but I know people who don't have that liberty and I feel like it would be arrogant of me To be like I don't care if like for instance, you know, I live in a very nice neighborhood So but I feel like it would I would be trifling I'm like I don't care what the quality of education is at the public school Down the street from my house because my kids are at home Right like other people's kids have to go to that public school So I should care about the education that's being provided by the system that I'm funding With my taxes, right? I pay taxes Our property taxes go to those schools. So I want those schools to be able to deliver You know a reasonable amount of a reasonable quality of education So I think and again and it's right and again It's kind of both and I like school choice and I like vouchers But I don't think you can do that and ignore And not fix the funding issues we have with some of the more impoverished schools In communities that are poorer because the property value is lower So jesus says the poor you always have with you. He didn't say the light poor the white poor is spanning for he just said poor So we're to help the poor in any way we can Um, but at the same time as well, I believe the church's mission Is not to be uh, this This soup kitchen Um, now if you want to do that because we're talking about purpose. We're talking about what god has, you know, uh established But I believe that I believe also the the issue when it comes to when it comes to, you know systemic injustice systemic racism, whatever, you know, the term we want to use Um, I I'm glad that both of us agree with the fact that it has to be proven, right? So you you you just saw you saw you you heard and you read the clips And the video that I just posted right regarding, you know, what is racism and and what would be prejudice or a racist statement, right? So then I want I want to I want to put this one up because because I'm I'm going somewhere with the flow of this because I want to make sure that we're consistent and I'm glad you said something else about Letting the hammer or the sword swing on either side of his right is right if it's wrong is wrong And we got a whole people accountable to it. So I I I'm definitely appreciating and agreeing with you up on that as well. So let me let me let me play this one because Um, this is another video that I want to share with you And get your thoughts about it because I believe it's it's important and it's it's it's it's public It's nothing private that's been uh being put out here. Um, this one is uh Where is it? Oh, okay. This one here. Let me let me play this one Okay, uh, where is it here we go Hmm Give me a minute and try to see if I can find it here. I thought I had it here. Um Okay, I'll play this one here. Let me do this one here All right, okay. Can you see that right there? Yeah, okay It says the white man crt ancestral sin Eric mason woke church. This this this gentleman here. His name is blake wilson. Not sure if you know matter of fact, he he's an author of uh Of this book. Let me let me uh, let me show you matter of fact. You have you read uh urban apologetics yet No, it's it's actually it's on myself. I haven't read it yet though. Okay. So this one So so you already have so eric mason, of course, you know, he uh, he authored it He has co-authors on there as well. So um, but this is blake wilson So let me let me play this one here and and let me let you hear what he said what I just did with it Oh, here it is. Duh. All right. You ready? Yep. All right Race isn't in the bible right when we're talking when we're talking about race, you know So when someone says that y'all when someone says that Uh And they say man, it's talking about nations. It's not really talking about race and or color I won't try to get on your plane if you take it because you secured the bag and go to Africa And look at what the people look like in libya Look what they look like in you know in egypt and look what they look like in ethiopia And then you just say okay when you come back take a picture of them and then come back and show it to the person Because the person's a liar It it it's false. See understand like The white man is so smooth the white christian man I'm going to come up with crt And you know not come up with it, but I'm going to start addressing this and saying that It's holding me guilty Therefore, I've been released at the cross of my guilt and therefore we are not even discussed things from the past See the white man is trying to erase Responsibility of some of his ancestral sins But if you read luke 11 45 through 52 Jesus christ put Responsibility of ancestral sins on the current generation Jesus did that But see the white man doesn't expect you to read Joaquin and anybody else on here He doesn't expect you to read why because you're still That black dude that we put in the slave ship Coming through urine and feces I don't respect you as a spiritual intellectual theological equal. I don't And that's why they tried to shut eric mason down Negro as long as you were writing that black men need to be fixed what man would restore. That's good But once you start writing woke church and once you start writing You know, uh What is urban apologetics? We didn't ask you to be a theologian Do not and I've had a conversation. So that that's what I wanted to I wanted you to see. Yeah, what what? Let me let me stop right at my fault All right, so what do you thoughts about that dawg? One anytime I hear a message. That's like the white man has said Um, it's kind of actually hard for me to continue listening because you're not actually identifying a group or system That you're addressing a problem with so so that's one but I I think it's you know I mean, I think it's hyperbole for entertainment. Maybe it's the best way I could Right like you try to make very inflammatory statements and people say this stuff online, but there's no substance In like what can I argue with that? He didn't state of fact. He didn't reference anything You just you know, the white man did this the white man did that who is that what organization? Are you talking about are you speaking of? Conventions right and then you want to narrow the scope to the christian white man But I don't like there to me. There's nothing there to To go off of like I would I would dismiss that just like the other guy's youtube video, right? Like I don't it almost sound like he was trying to defend dr. Mason But didn't bring up any specific attacks towards dr. Mason So like I don't really know what he was trying to get to other than saying Something that would be like provocative and inflammatory, right and then just put that CRT They're trying to attack the black man Who wrote a book, you know to me mentality, which I don't know where that's coming from Like I haven't seen like christianity today put out an article, right? Or charisma magazine saying that you know, eric mason is the devil, right? I know jeff durbin said some stuff at a conference about woke church But that was got to that book and that wasn't from you know from like the mainstream christian Or largely white evangelical christian organization So I think it's I think it's you know, I think it's provocative and inflammatory for a reason and for that reason I think it's not Do you think you take it being a racist statement that you made to our white people? That they have ancestral sin would that be considered as a false accusation against white people? I think it's yeah, I think it's a false generalized statement, right? Like, you know ancestry is ancestry. You can't group all white people in together. They're not all the same They're not genetically the same. They're not ethnically the same, right? There are people who immigrated to america after world war two whose family had no ties to slave ownership, right? And all this other stuff and that's why I said when you talk about the white man, right? Like and we talked about this early when we talked about race, right race is a Construct and he tried to dismiss the fact that if you know, the bible talks about people groups and ethnicities Not race the way that we see it in america, right in a in africa Everybody's dark skin, but they don't all call themselves black Right call themselves nigerian or negretian or right? Like they call themselves based on their ethnicity their culture Or the tribe where they come from so That yeah, so I think and the reason why and the reason why i'm bringing it up though rory because again, you know I believe that as christians when we when we see things or hear things That can Create or cause division in the bite of christ, then it is our responsibility to to uh to call it out This like we talking about racism if racism is is is once we know that racism has emerged And we have the facts that a person is being racist or violating the second greatest command Which is loving our neighbor as ourself then we need to deal with it We need to call them out. We need to expose it We need to call them to repentance and we need to warn people Not to associate or not to you know fellowship with these kind of people until they repent So this man is a is an a co-author of a book That's Blasting white people and saying that white people because of the color of their skin have Ancestral sin because of what the ancestors did that is so anti-ezecal 18 um Because we know that the bible makes it clear that the sins of the father's not passed down to the to the to the sun Each man is going to be held responsible for their own sin now there can be consequences We understand that but when people say that they're talking about ant grow ancestral sin and then you have and then you have people And then you have people like eric mason who says that uh black people cannot be racist So he can he contradicts or conflicts with what you're saying But again, but also i've read his books and i know how he defines racism Right, he's one of the people that will use the definition of racism that it's prejudice plus power So the reason he makes the statement that black people can't be racist And he does he doesn't say black people can't be impartial that they can't be bigoted But in using the definition in the context of power Right. He's because like a lot of these discussions are about systems, right? So like the question is tell me a system that black people control that they can keep white people out of And there's a lot of people who take that same kind of position And it depends on how you're defining it, right? So like again I'm you know, I and again just because of my my occupation, but right like I can't I can't keep somebody out of an education system So that's the where a lot of people who make that statement and honestly at one point in my life I used to make the same statement until I kind of broaden my definition of racism and understanding it Um, especially being somebody who's in a position of power, right? And when you take it out of like these large global Country side systems and you take it down, right? And that's why I use the example I did say co when I said can a classroom be a system? Right, because if a classroom can be a system then a black teacher can be racist Right, like but it depends on where you're defining that that um That kind of demographic if the system has to be like the state government Or the federal government black people don't run the federal government So black people can't make the federal government racist But it depends on where you're boxing that system and a lot of these discussions when we talk about systemic racism People are normally talking about like When you mention it in your title institutional So they're like state government federal government and it's like the criminal justice system the education system the The financial system, but I don't use that definition because I'm a I'm an applications engineer So I like high theory and intellectual theory is cute But I got to get I need something applicable and practical So that's why I take it down to to tangible systems and when you bring it to a system that's that small Right where the where the person in power doesn't have to be a president and elected official a ceo Right, it can be a teacher It can be an individual Then that kind of in my opinion like that view of it kind of shifts But not specifically to dr. Mason, but a lot of people who I've read and that I've seen that make that statement They're normally referring to like the federal government the criminal justice system because that's what we're saying You say the criminal justice system is racist and then people be like well black people are racist too I'm like, but we're talking about the criminal justice system So show me something comparable that black people run where they either, you know Disproportionately you're discriminating against white people in similar size systems. So that's and so I'm not disagreeing and I agree with you Right, I think black people can be racist and that's a generalized statement to make that causes a lot of confusion and division But you've got to define the system and they're normally talking about larger Systems like but does it have to matter if it's not a large system because there there are black people in positions of power In fact, let me just let me just I'm gonna read a quote. This is from evram x kendi This is what he says quote and this is um, this was in 2019 And he was interviewed on cnn and the article is titled sure black people can't be racist too And the question was raised. Why do you think black people can be racist as well? You heard that the art you heard the argument that people of color can't be racist because they don't have Institutional power and this is what evram x kendi says quote So generally white people say i'm not racist and black people say I can't be racist There's a similar form of denial that is essential to the life of racism itself You have black people who believe that they can't be racist because they believe that black people don't have power And that's blatantly not true Every single person on earth has the power to resist racist policies and power We need to recognize that there are black people who resist it And there are some who do not because of their own anti black racism And then you have black people a limited number who are in policy making positions and use those policy making Decisions excuse me to institute or defend policies that harm black people If those people were white, we would be calling them what they are Racists If they're black, they're no different They're racist end of quote. So this is this is what Ibrahim x kendi says now. I know he ain't a christian but he's he's he's speaking Against the narrative of eric mason and of others who would say that black people can't be racist because racism involves power And my thing is where's book chapter verse on that because we are to define our terms that prejudice or racism is a Discrimination against a person based on the color of their skin or thinking that one person is better than the Another ethnic group or race is better than another race than that sin. That's james too. So we can't say that so it's it's for me it's an indictment against any professing believer when you have unbelievers saying well, wait a minute hold it black people got power to matter of fact I got a I got a A list of of of congress folk that have been in positions of power Just after slavery Yeah in congress. I mean i'm so i'm saying They they they've been in positions of power Even up to this present day. So I don't I don't think we do justice per se quote unquote So to individuals when we when we add definitions to things that don't mean what it actually says so if i'm telling the person that You can be a white person. Yeah, you can be racist because you have power Well, I know a lot of white people that quote unquote Don't have power and they live in trailer parks now I would I would disagree in in in this context that like even makes kindi says Uh, all of us have power because we have influence. It's just at somebody greater Levels in greater realms than others But every last one of us the jesus says to whom much is given much is required then that's power That's influence. So I I push back on that and I want I gotta play this video for you dog I gotta play it for you bro because I want you to hear what eric mason said I gotta let you hear it because again, he said it and when I asked ruse-lon the question He was hymning and high and and my eye all depends on what is is i'm like bill clinton Can you can you miss me with the ears? No, he said it. This is what he said This is what he meant and so it's it's what it's on it's on video So let me let me just run this real quick unless you hear it and um And let eric say what he has to say out of his own mouth Let me see if you got it right here Can you see that? Yep. All right. Let me run it for you Racism is prejudice discrimination antagonism Direct directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular Racial or ethnic group typically one that is a minority or marginalized marginalized So racism is is is different than prejudice if you will prejudice prejudice if you will It is a bit different because it's biased or preconceived opinion about someone So prejudice is the ability to have a disposition towards someone But racism is the ability to enact your power based on your Your your your um your your prejudice against someone anybody can be prejudiced only a few people can be racist And so racism is is the application of your power To enforce your prejudice on people that you want to enforce it on that means Whites have to stop calling black people racist You call a black person prejudice But you can never call a black person racist Because the difference between me and you is I can I can call you whatever crazy racial slur I want I can not treat you a particular way, but racism is a bit different It's the it's me using my structural capacity in connection to power to to enforce my prejudice to cut things off from you But that's why I'm glad Because it was based on human systems nothing would happen, but I know people on this planet and I'm against the power of God. I can I can still hear it. So yeah, I'm gonna stop her here. Oh, there it is. I'm sorry There we go. All right. There we go my fault. So Again, he says that uh, and then he he also says that he can call a white person any kind of racial slur that he wants Well, where's that? I mean that's that's so anti-james three You can't just see what he was saying in context of the definition of prejudice But he was saying even in calling somebody a Prejudicial term based on the way that he was laying it out that he wouldn't define that as racist and again Like I don't agree with that statement Right and it's so and in the same regard like you just quoted ibram kindy and you're like He's not a christian and I know there's a lot of stuff in how to be anti-racist Which is down here on my bookshelf that you nor I would agree with In application, but he said something that has a valid point you pull that information in So and you know and again I don't know who he was speaking to in that audience right, but it goes back to what I said before Right, he's talking about you know black people don't have Institutional power to be able to deny somebody so that prejudice can't be put into action So I don't know what system he was envisioning in his mind when he said that right But again, I have a different a different perspective because i'm an executive Right like I have a position of power and I personally have the ability to decide the careers the direction The salaries the benefits right the the livelihood of of hundreds of people every day And I could in my position of power choose to not hire white people Right only hire black people to not hire hispanics to not hire people who aren't christian Right like I could choose to use any of my own personal biases or prejudices In that respect so like because of that and because that's the way that I look at A system right so I look at my organization that I run that you know that provides a very good lifestyle for hundreds of people As a system, but I run that and I control that system Um, and I would even say like to the local level right like he gets to control who he hires at his church So That you don't agree with um, but into a certain degree right it's like And I don't want to make any assumptions, but like I also feel like there's a There's like a a lack of And I don't want to say a lack of acknowledgement or or like You know and it's and like a lot of the the kind of I would I want to say conservative But I don't want to use a political term but um But like a lot of conservative people have this this like this view or this critique of black people that were like victims all the time Right that like it's all woe is me like I need an entitlement. I need a handout I need something like we're devoid of any individual power To be able to to to provide for ourselves to change our circumstances to overcome obstacles So even if you put me in a ditch when everybody else is on level ground And you fill the ditch with rocks in water Right like I can still manage to get out of that ditch and I can still manage to run you down and even pass you If I put that effort in you know what I mean And so I don't like the idea that black people are powerless because we're not Like you said shortly after the reconstruction, right? We had the biggest influx of black people in politics in the south until you had the Dixie crafts, right? Like looking people in a matter of a generation, right? That became educated that became inventors after we weren't allowed to read for 300 years Like that's a ditch you had to crawl out of and then we got Carter g woodson Given Henry Ford directions on how to run an automobile plant. You see what I'm saying? So like I don't like the and I don't know if it's the victimization or Like like taking too much pride in the inferiority that's inherent to the to like black identity In the racial social construct And then it's like and I don't want to quote So like that's not conservatives that that's not conservatives that they believe that's those those are liberals Those are democrats that hold to that view. That's not conservatives And it's and it's it is and I'm not gonna lie, right? You know, there is there are a lot of there are a lot of liberal people who feel that way Which is why I don't kind of put myself in that camp, right? I I I use this illustration to talk about like politics that I said, I feel like it's like It's joe exotic versus like carol whatever the lady's name is So I feel like and I get to have a lot of conversations with people in different economic Stratuses the way that people on either side look at black people And this is just my opinion the liberals are like We got to help black people because we can't help themselves And then a lot of times the stuff that I get from conservatives is like I need to tell black people how to live their lives so that they can do better for themselves because we know how to do it Because we've done well So let us be the so it's the difference between like an animal circus and a conservatory Right, so I'm either using you for like my entertainment. You can make me money. You can work for me Um, you know, you can benefit me or I want to put you in like this sanctuary because I think you're gonna hurt yourself If I just let you move and operate in your own power And I don't like either which is why like they're two wings of the same bird And you know I'm saying I follow the I follow the lambs so I don't really care What either one of them are doing and so even and even when you talk about politically like When I vote like I don't I don't vote straight down a line, right? It depends on what is your job What is your job requirement? What are you required to do? Who are you going to hire? Who are you going to fire? Who are you going to put in office? And then I look at those institutions and those organizations and drive it that way, but yeah Like I said, I don't disagree with you It bothers me and that's why I do agree with like some of the black conservative Talks because they're you know, they're always like we gotta we gotta own ourselves. But like Do you agree with that? Do you agree with candid someone? I mean, she said some stuff that she she said some stuff on education that I've heard before she started being Like a political pundit like some of her earlier content I've seen from her nonprofits, but I don't like I don't watch politically charged rhetoric because I don't care about politics So I don't really watch those kind of debates But I looked at some of her information where she was talking about education It was speaking to congress and like she had valid points that she was making and I'm like I don't have So that's my question is if we're christians if we're christians and I can I gotta You can't just own an abram kindy and both of them are not christians, by the way Yeah, but you also but you also but you also mentioned uh mlk and malcom x and blm in one of your conversations with uh, was sherry last year Well, who? sherry Yeah, I mean you said you you had you had mentioned malcom x and and uh mlk They weren't christians and blm is is definitely not a christian institution And and they have done more to destroy the black community than uh, then a racist white person Today could do and and so i'm saying if that's if that's your logic You can check the video brother. I've never advertised or endorsed the black lives matter I just want to make sure because you threw it out there as a soundbite and they can go watch them I Matter I have a video black lives matter that they can go watch that clearly says I don't support the organization I want you to explain to me this then because here's the video Here's the video here. I want you to explain to me what you meant by what you said because that's again It's about clarity Yeah, I want to make sure because if it's out here and you said it you made some statements about canisone That I believe was slanderous you and the sister did I believe that that was that was misrepresenting an individual an image a fellow image bearer of god regardless of whether or not she is a uh A christian or not, but then that same consistency had to be given across the board So I want to I want to get your thoughts about what you said in this in your own video with your uh with the interview with her and uh and sherry so let me let me go ahead and and put this join up here And uh, here we go Dear white church. That's the that's the title of the video And the question was raised uh regarding canisone. What do y'all think about canisones? That's you right here on the right, right? Right that you make make racism. Okay. I want to make sure I got that I ain't trying to I ain't trying to profile you but All right, here we go She sent it through facebook and messenger. So I'll go ahead and read it, but she basically said, um I have a serious question for you How do you deal with someone who wants to use canisones as a positive example or a different way of looking at things going on? Um, she says I have no idea how to talk to people about it. Does this question make sense? Well, it makes a lot of sense it makes a lot of sense So probably should we probably should explain who canisones is first You can do that. All right. Well, canisones is a She's a speaker of political common Terry person ish, but she's not really a politician She's tied up in organizations like turning point and very very right-wing organizations that Don't really have the best reputations to be quite honest with you And she has an origin story and so how I would answer this to my friend who put this in I'd say First you need to know canisone. Yes. She's a black woman. So she's a black woman She's also the black woman who said that um, george floyd was not a hero He was a criminal and he wasn't celebrating him. I mean she says all kinds of polarizing things and she's just She's a conservative Right-wing not to say that you can't be a conservative right wing But the things she says are very polarizing and very very very disrespectful and and lack compassion and quite honestly lack Facts she makes up her own. Yes So here's here's what you need to know about canisones before you get on the cannons Owens train dear white church loves canisones because she's the black girl That will say all the things that basically say that racism isn't even real which is kind of what she believes So here's what happened. Uh, she was a young girl in high school. Here's her origin story So you need to know this she was a young girl in high school She was dating a guy and some white kids in her class. I have a feeling it was a white kid Because I don't know why white kids would care uh this this much about her boyfriend But anyway, she's with this guy. She's on a date. Her phone keeps blowing up and um, she gets off the date She looks at her phone messages and it's all these hate messages saying we're gonna hang you We you know stay away from our men and all this stuff about just her being a nigger basically, okay and And ladies and gentlemen, just bear with me y'all because this is it's not too too long But I want to get the full context to go on one pass the road to respond in in the context of the conversation regarding The question that was raised with uh with canisone. So just just bear with me On this on this portion of the video death threats Well, uh, she didn't know what to do with this. She was a young girl She was in class and the teacher was talking about racism And she just you know casually said oh that happened to me and the teacher says that happened to you What happened and she explains these death threats she got on her phone from her classmates He was like that's a big deal You need to go to the principal's office and we need to talk about this and get the school counselor involved They get the school counselor involved. They listen to the messages And uh, they start to figure out who these kids are well These kids were some white kids who were kids of politicians And they identify them and then the like the federal government gets involved It becomes this whole thing and she becomes now the black girl who's a victim of hate crimes in her community She didn't ask for this she was just trying to enjoy her best life as a teenager Which is true, but it really impacted her she goes on to college. She wants to leave that behind She doesn't want to be a victim. She was hoping it didn't follow her around But she was so traumatized though what happened she became an alcoholic and severely depressed She goes on to say that she started doing yoga and had a transformative experience during yoga That basically said I can reframe my narrative and I'm going to do that I'm going to pick myself up by the bootstraps and I'm going to rewrite my life I am not a victim. So she reframes her whole story says what happened to me wasn't a racist act They were just kids being kids. They didn't mean anything and I can have control over my destiny destiny and from there She got on this whole narrative of you know, it is how you think about it. It is what you think It is what you make it. Well, she uses that narrative in all kinds of complex racial things that really You just can't reframe, you know a mass incarceration out of the reality of our history Out of the context, yeah You can't reframe slavery. You can't reframe Segregation and redlining, right? You can't read so so but she in her mind thinks you can just reframe it all In conservatives, they love that narrative because it takes them off the hook Like they don't have to repent and do all that stuff we've been talking about, right? So that's who Candace Owens is and she is uh, she She's I don't know. Yeah, and she's but this is this is this is this is my thing to deal with your white church If she resounds it sounds better when it comes from When she says dear white church, but first of all, she's not christian So when you just told her origin story, right? Her her renewed mindset her new focus on how to channel her trauma into more productive things where she takes responsibility For her own life This is not a christian person So the thing that I found amazing is why are all of these christians quoting her, right? Like this is the equivalent of like black people who want to use umar johnson Or farrakhan or riza islam or whatever like you just reach out for somebody who agrees with what you say Even though they're not actually aligned with what you claim you believe This is when you are publicly displaying your double-mindedness Because why are you going to a secular source to try to justify something you think is a righteous position? You already know why because republican equals christian Republican equals christian It is right and that's the thing but and that's but even when people say that they're not christian Right, kandace on does not claim to be a christian, but she speaks on behalf of republicans Now she can be a proxy for christian thought when right and I was thinking about this today and I said right Like every and I'm taking and we were talking about about black women earlier, right? Every woman every black woman. I know Has experienced some form of sexual harassment or abuse So if I want to know the opinion Right like what I can I can probably find one woman who said she's never had a wrong kind of advance and she's never or I can listen to the overwhelming evidence of the majority of the people that I've interacted with Who say that this is their experience right that misogyny is real and sexism is real And boys and men aren't taught boundaries and they're always on the defense or you know Like or I can let amber rose be the spoke person for women You see what I'm saying? So like to me like the kandace owen Correlation is like now amber rose wanting to criticize people for slut shame and people who want to walk around half naked Being the voice of women. So like instead of michelle obama Let me get amber rose to talk to all the children Like that's the equivalent of like trying to get you know black feeling or compassionate Black descriptions from like kandace owen right when she's being paid Right amber rose makes her money in a certain way Right kandace owen makes her money in a certain way and everybody always wants to say follow the money When we're talking about black lives matter protests in george soros Right follow the money like she is being paid to represent an idea and the fact that people would would use her That's kind of a counter to like well, what I say can't be racist if a black person says it That's right. And like that's what it is like she reads the script of racist political propaganda So that it has a black face. So kandace owen is racism in black face That's the part I wanted to hear I wanted to get your thoughts about that bro. Could that that's a very uh Incendiary statement, I would think you know What what what is your response to that doc? Yeah, I mean it's I don't think it's incendiary it's incendiary It's illustrative and descriptive right like we know what black face is right black face was was white minstrel theater But they were painted black and it and it was a continuation to the statement that I had just made Which is the fact that people take like some of the The comments that if a white pundit or political correspondence said it and even to your earlier point It'd be like that was racist you can't say that you're white and then like you know And the other thing like you know her her organization gets funded kind of out of nowhere She gets she gets um kind of pullpitted By trump right and gets provided a platform and then she's regurgitating this stuff that people have been saying for years But like But I guess what did she say that was wrong or sinful? That you would that you would charge her with a statement like that being a pastor I mean you saying that kandace Owen is racism in blackface that that's that's I mean so for one making um making very broad um out of context statements about the fact that like Um issues and we were actually talking about a very specific kandace Owen video And I don't remember because somebody the question came from a viewer that sent us a video that she got in her inbox So the video that we were talking about it was basically kandace Owen was talking about like You know all the problems in the black family are because of the absence of black fathers That's it. That's a very that's a that's a relatively true statement, but it's not an absolutely true statement Right. So there's a lot of sweeping statements that she makes that all the problems in our community are because of absent black fathers Are they're because of the um, you know the the the focus on the nuclear black family and things of that nature And so she said that she said that's the main problem that she said as one of the contributing factors Because I've heard of saying there's a contributing factor And I don't remember what video it was specifically but in that video They were very kind of broad Right, like I knew what she was referring to but it wasn't it was a contributing factor It was kind of like very Damning statements, especially in a lot of them were towards black men in the absence of black men and how that's the The cause How's that alive and how's that not a I mean if the statement is true And it is true The assumption that black men are absent in their children's lives is statistically not true No, no, no If you're if you're not if if you're not there if you're not in the home If you're not in the home roey because we know that a father's presence in the home Has greater impact than them being outside of the home And what and what demographic of men spend more time with their children than any other demographic When I talk when I talk about demographic We're talking about the the home structure We're talking about how a father has impact and influence when his presence is there on a Every day or a consistent basis. I'm not talking about where They they they coming over to visit every other uh every weekend or every other every other weekend I'm talking about what what the word of god tells us and how we are to raise and rear our children And since we are a minority and we make up 13 of the population and we have over 70 of our mothers raising our children We can't sit here and say that that does not take A disproportionate effect on the black family because it does so my so my question bro is is how is it that She can be chided or be uh slam for making a general statement But I just played you clips of eric mason. I played you clips of blake wilson You you heard the clip of of phil johnson You read the statement that I that I showed you at the beginning of our talk And you came at those with the exception of with just with the exception of of eric and blake You kind of like you kind of like soft-shooted a little bit, bro I thought they were both wrong. So what? Did I disagree with their opinion? No, but you I mean you you disagree with their opinion But you didn't come at them with the same Varosity and verbosity that you are coming at that you came at can is on you call this woman You call this woman racing races in blackface. I mean in blackface that was and again It was a continuation of the statement that I just made Which was she's being platformed to regurgitate things that other people on the right were saying But when they were saying them they were getting called racist So they I right they took they have a black person regurgitating the same thing to kind of skirt around that and that is I'm in no way saying right I said it was racism in blackface I'm not talking about the validity of the statement or anything else I said the people who were right those same ideas were proposed before And it goes to our earlier point right is it really racist or is it not? But those same points have been brought up by white men in the past and they were called racist They were canceled for saying the same thing and then now we've got a black woman being platformed Right who came out of nowhere who previously had no association with the trump campaign And now even the administration is giving her the opportunity to speak to congress When there's you know what I mean and like and then she's being put out there and that's why I used that illustration I wasn't trying to be like disrespectful, right? I said it was racism in blackface using that illustration because I felt like they were Regurgitating the same information, but they felt like they had protection In letting a black woman say it because she can't be called racist when when they presented the same arguments And again whether you know disagree on the the details of it or whatever But when white men present those same arguments, they are called racist So then when she got put out front that was my point like you're you're getting her to say the same thing that you were saying And why are you saying that they're getting why do you believe that they're getting her that that seems to be that you are You're you're ascribing somebody's motivations to be something that we don't have the evidence and facts to that's my point We had talked about the beginning and again the evidence and facts if you and that's what I said if you go and look at Candace Owens platform before she got involved in politics Her platform was not about the absence of black fathers in home, right? She talked about education She had a website dedicated to bullying, right? It wasn't literally until the trump campaign You like helped her found turning point usa that all of this information started coming out So i'm talking about the shift in her direction that was specifically tied To her association with the political campaign That seemed to actually be kind of a step away from the things that she was trying to focus on which I thought were great Like bullying is a wonderful She had a lot of stuff about education that she was pushing and all of that went in completely different directions She wasn't involved in politics at all Until she was kind of platform because she came out of nowhere Right Is that wrong? I guess my question is does that make it wrong? That she said that she's making these statements and because it seemed like to me it's just like You're you're you're you're ascribing something like as though she doesn't have a mind of her own or or That she cannot agree to something that that is true So why would she have to be considered racism and matter of fact whether a person that's white said it The question is biblically speaking. Is it true? Can we look at can we look at our culture and look at our people? And say that what we see going on as a people is not a problem Would be disingenuous if we say no no Or are we saying we're not you can't say that unless you're part of this group Or you can't say that unless you're part of this and i'm saying it doesn't matter Who it is the question or the statement should be If it's true then the bible commands us to be aware of the think on these things Philippians 4 we have to hold fast that which is true first That's only in 522 in 521 22. So we have to we have to see what the information is Running through the grid of the scriptures. Look at our lives. Look at the situations. This is okay. You know what? According to god's design, this is how the family is supposed to be according to god's design This is what sexuality is to be according to god's design. This is what god has said about babies Babies are not accidents. So therefore babies are not an accident I don't have the right to support policies or support things that will annihilate Those that are made in the image of god for because of a political agenda And i'm saying for for too many of us who profess to be christians We have an unbiblical worldview when it comes to issues affecting the black community We rather talk about trump or rather talk about biden. I'm saying, okay What do these policies that these men? Or these candidates or individuals represent? So if I say something that is true Then I shouldn't be I shouldn't be lambasted or should be attacked by by being called a sellout or being called, you know, uh Uncle ruckus you you actually bro. You call this just the auntie ruckus in this video You don't think that that was a slanderous statement. You don't think that that was an attack on his on his woman's character, bro I Mean that was that was a that was a shot at kandace owen. It was a joke. Yes, and I guess you could say it was an inappropriate joke So, yeah, I'll give you that like Yeah, I mean because that's my point is is that we talk about influence. We talk about power We talk about what we are, you know what we are to represent. So If a person if a person is saying something or doing something because we don't like it then I don't believe we have the right to To number one lie on them kandace owens has never said racism does not exist So sherry sure. I want to miss pronounce her name because I know I know people know miss pronounce my name But the sister slandered this woman She never said that So so there seems to be this this perception Of individuals because we don't agree with them then that gives us carte blanche to to attack them And as christians we're called to a higher standard as christians when we're not to Bring false charges against our neighbor. That's not loving at all. You know I'm saying so I think that that's that was my concern And I just wanted I just wanted to hear your thoughts about it because again, you know It was said publicly it was about an individual and and if we don't if we don't, you know Lovingly say hey man. Look, you know if that you said in this video You care to comment on it you care to bring some clarity or you care to repent for what you said about this Because I believe that again, you have influence. I have influence you have followers I have followers and so when we we make these statements about individuals a lot of people. This is be real Let's keep it a buck A lot of people do not really Do their homework they rather they rather gravitate to personality Instead of instead of saying well, you know what? Let's look at the positions and what these people are saying and if if I say something unbiblical And if I say something wrong then you as a fellow brother in christ have the right to call me upon it Just like paul did with I mean with with peter in uh and in galatians too So I just think that you know when when we have these issues man that are we talk about You know conservatives, like you know, I know you said it, you know, you don't really you know Talk about conservatives, but in a sense we do because this is where we are I just believe that we need to have a biblical word regarding that. That's all And I yeah, and I appreciate that you know I'm saying and I and I take that and so and like I said with that right the My thing was there were the a lot of those statistics She references right when we talk about fatherness and what the what the biggest issues are in the black community All of this stuff has been researched. It's been thoroughly researched, right? So the people who came to that conclusion before and were proven Via research and people who challenge what they said who happened to be white man Right like a lot of the like and that's my point a lot of these talking points Have never been proven by anybody, right? They're contributing factors That like and you know the whole thing like the absence of the the black father in the home is the most like detrimental thing to the Back but it has been proven. Roy. It has been proven, bro. But but it's improved I got the information right here, you know, you got you got the cdc has proven it You have you have I mean that's like I read I read something. I read something. It's right here Racism responsible for today's black problems. They got this from another from Walter Williams Um, I have the black family is struggling. It's not because of slavery. Let me just read this one The number one problem among blacks is the effect stemming from a very weak family structure Hold on one second. Like you're are you reading research from the cdc? Yes, I'm reading the research. Yes. Do you know what Walter Williams is? I don't know who Walter Williams is Then you're referencing Walter Williams I'm giving you one sourced cdc mentions it and Walter Williams also cites the cdc sourcing in as well So that's what I'm quoting the number one problem face among blacks is the effect stemming from a very weak family culture Uh, children from fatherless homes are likely to drop out of high school Die by suicide have behavioral disorders join gangs commit crimes and end up in prison They're also likely to live in poverty-stricken households But it's but is the weak black family a legacy of slavery? In 1960 just 22 of black children were raised in single-parent families 50 years later More than 70 of black children were raised in single-parent families um According to the 1938 encyclopedia of social sciences that year 11 of black children were born to unwed mothers today About 75 of black children are born to unwed mothers the bottom line is that the black family was stronger The first 100 years after slavery than during what would be the second 100 years at one time almost black families were poor Regardless of whether one of both parents parents students were present Today roughly 30 of blacks are poor. However, two parent families black families rather are rarely poor Uh, only 8 of black married couple families live in poverty among black families in which the both husband and wife work full time The poverty rate is under 5 percent poverty and black families headed by single women is 37 The undeniable truth is that neither jen neither slavery nor jim crow nor the harshest racism Has decimated the black family the way the welfare state has in every census from 1980 to 1954 Blacks were either just as active or more than whites in the labor market During during that earlier period black teen unemployment was roughly equal to or less than white teen unemployment As early as 1900 the duration of black unemployment was 15 shorter than that of whites today is about 30 longer Would anyone suggest that during earlier periods that there was less racial discrimination? What goes a long way toward the explanation of yesteryear and today are various labor laws and regulations Promoted by liberals and their union allies that cut off the bottom rungs of the economic ladder and encourage racial discrimination Labor unions have also a long history of discrimination against blacks Frederick Douglass wrote about this in his 1874 essay titled Quote the folly tyranny and wickedness of labor unions and quote and burkarty washington did so in this 1913 essay entitled Quote the negro and labor unions to the detriment of their constituents Most of today's black politicians give unquestioning support to labor laws pushed by unions and white liberal organizations The most damage done to black america is inflicted by those politicians civil rights leaders and academics Who assert that every problem confronting black is a result of legally of scheming of the legacy Excuse me of slavery and discrimination. That's a vision that guarantees perpetuity Of the of the problems and so that's that's just one Bro, it's it's what i'm saying is The data is there But the question is do we believe it and all we have to do is just look at our families Just look at the black family. Are we can we honestly say that the black family? With what we have now with all the technology all of the opportunities all of the benefits in this country in america right now We we got if there's two black men right now conversing with each other on a on a computer screen You know and and and and we are living in the comfort of our homes We talk about all these blessings that we have that god has got that god has sovereignly given to us Are we still acting as though? We're still living in the in the gem crow south on the gem crow or the reconstruction era Where we have to act for rights that we have to now act to be treated as men No, I don't see that Yeah, and I and I agree right and I kind of said that earlier I don't like the victimization of we don't have power So in everything that you just read and I I could you know pull some of it and I understand You know Walter Williams and somebody made the comment that he's an economist So that's his that's his uh his take on the data that he evaluated I love economists. Um, so but so and I guess to get to it in applications Question right because we're talking theoretical and black men are problems and black families are the problems and and all of this other stuff Like, you know, I I gotta get So if all of the data that you just reviewed and everything you read Is wrong and and it'll and actually I'm maybe I'm bringing it home for you a little bit too, brother What are we supposed to do that right because All of this because we can do a lot of pontificating But like I know people who do a lot of talking in their hands do no action But right, right, I mean, and so that's the thing like regardless of Right, like you look at the state of our community and I and right if take everything you say cdc Um absolute backflip I'll throw mass incarceration on top of that one thing that happened after the 1970s Was the war on drug that drugs that led prisons from being two four two hundred four hundred thousand people To six million people being under the um the you know under the the the justice the criminal justice system And displacing a lot of black men from communities and families. Um, so right add that in there So everything you talked about add mass incarceration on top of it add Um add education on top of that add the the income on top of that like in our in our present day Right and like this is this is like we could have these conversations all day, but right I tell you when I go into communities Right that are currently poverished where people are on, you know, uh federal assistance and all of this other stuff All of this information that we pontificate about on the internet is not known to common people Right, like they're not reading economic. They're not reading economists They're not reading the the the impact of you know, even sometimes the impact of the civil rights and integration On black families and all of this other stuff. So My I guess the why thing to kind of bring it around and we talk about right right right you or what the Right to do regardless of how we feel and whether or not we agree on the state of the black family And what if it was systemic institutional racism mass incarceration or if it's a lack of responsibility, right? Um father's being absent in the household the present state is the present state Right and we spent all of this time arguing about how we got there But again, I don't see many people talking about then. How do we get the people out of these situations? No, I can't just reconcile Everybody get married and the father being the home like that child was already had out of wedlock So from a policy and a process perspective How do we try to drive better outcomes for people who are already in these scenarios? Whether they landed there based on you know, the information you just shared or Because of a different circumstance And I'm glad I'm glad you mentioned that bro because I I'm I'm bringing it home, too And it could be pretty much talked for a while bottom line. It's the gospel. It's the church What what is it? What does God call? Believers to do what we know is the great commission go into all the world and preach the gospel now Now it's one thing of preaching the gospel But it's another thing to have the gospel practically applied in one's life. We see we see Numerous examples of that right so we see how the early church did it in the book of acts We see how paul and how he commended the thesonolians and how when they received the gospel it changed their lives but In order for you to in order for you to know where you are We need to tell people where they are They're lost They need a savior. We don't need it. We don't need to push it foot around with that We need to play we need to play it straight and and and real with them, right? So we don't we don't tell them Hey, um Ma'am sir, you know you go to the hood, you know, um We understand what you're going through. But it's the white man's problem. No, no Let's talk about how you got here. It looks like Jesus did with the woman at the well, right? He addressed the situation He addressed the situation He didn't he didn't talk about, you know, how how these men, you know, were no good and and he wasn't male bashing None that kind he didn't make an excuse He dealt with her situation where she was and gave her the solution, right? So that's what we're that's what we're called to do. We give people the gospel So it's evangelism and then it's discipleship Okay, it's it's it's sharing life with life We can't act as though we love Our brothers or love unbelievers and then we're not we're not Working with them or we're not showing them and I believe that the church for the most part I believe for the church for the most part those who are actually doing the work of ministry. Those are actually, you know, uh preaching the gospel First of all, it starts in our family. That's the start there before you even go out. Can we do what acts one? Can we can we deal with Jerusalem? What's your Jerusalem? Right my Jerusalem is is is my family is the woods family Yeah, then it's your dean then it's the mayor then it's the other most part, right? So so then I need to make sure that that my home is tight I got to make sure my home is intact because what's the purpose of me trying to go out into somebody else's home if My home ain't right. So it's that once I do that Then I need to make sure that hey when I go out here I hear people I I'm addressing issues, but from a biblical perspective It has to be biblical. It can't be this this this social gospel. It can't be any of that mess. It has to be what the scriptures say so now um Holding them responsible holding them accountable all of that all that comes with Discipleship, but we have to give them the gospel first So I believe that that should actually answer the question But we're seen to be pulling the cart before the horse We we we want to we want to basically just you know Put a band aid over the over the wound instead of cleaning it It's going to hurt it's going to hurt to tell people. Hey look, you know, let's talk about these kids You got let's talk about you know, why aren't you working? Are you are you are you disabled? I mean you see I'm saying I think that that is where A lot of our communities within the hood and you know within black or our black our black people We we we seem to want to just want to soft shoot them No, no, no take that same energy that you got when you're talking to white folk Bring that on home to our people. They need the truth too. So I mean it right, but that is what it is Now you're good man And I and I love that man because and this is and I said it matter of fact I think we talked about it briefly before we jumped on the live Right like you know and even and I'm I'm staying out of the comments because I don't even know I just I see the bubble makes out at 120 over here on uh, so it's been a lot of talking Yeah, um, but I I appreciate what you say and what I want to add to it is this right like we talked about earlier like The church the church just can't be a soup kitchen Right, but um, but I think the problem is like even in my family, right? Because you said, you know, you're where your Jerusalem is in my family Like my wife does the instruction, right? I do the correction, right like From a proper perspective, but then it's like when we go outside of our homes into these communities, right? Like why can't you be doing everything that you say but then somebody feeding them at the same time And both of those can be right like like jesus broke loaves and fishes anyway and preached on the mountain He didn't just like because remember the disciples came to him was like the people said they're hungry Jesus said didn't Jesus didn't tell him to shut up tell him come get this word Right feed them like and then I mean and then I'll still preach and so I And so one of the things that I think that we do is that There are there are passions and there are things that God puts inside of us, right? That we're that we're driven towards that we're um that we're kind of designed and focused on Discipling people in and building life and connecting with folks in And then we tend to act like that's the only way that we should approach the issue Right like if and I I agree with you and I mean I just met with you know, I met with the chief police I met with um workforce development organizations because you know, my church um over my outreach I'm doing food distribution, but I'm also opening up a legal clinic Right, so it's like trying to bring all these resources around Because I don't want to just help you pay your rent. I want to make sure you don't have a slum lure I want to make sure you ain't got a lease. That's inappropriate, right? I want to make sure you're not living Above your means. I don't want to just keep paying your light bill every month But it takes different people to do that. You see what I'm saying like To be the um the kind arm that can bring a man and can and can love on him and and pray for him But then you need somebody to be like, hey, all right, like that was twice Right, you're on the budget. Let's get this together Right what we find what I find too often especially working in like the nonprofit space Is that like we don't we don't get that overlap in that in that body function, right? Where you might be the hand that's smacking some sense into somebody and somebody else needs to be the hand That's giving them bread when they're hungry But all that is an effective you know, I'm saying is an effective way to utilize the body So like but because we become divided on politics and ideology and even down to denominational lines like I'm on a I'm on a cross across denominational It's called the gilford congregational alliance And it's basically churches across like all that denominations, but it's like a benevolence fund So if somebody has a medical problem like churches come together and try to help collectively Like as the body, but it's hard to get people to participate across the domination So I I say that to say like I don't disagree with your approach to anything Right, like I think we need to have hard conversations. I have them I've got mentees all over the country and they get that savage truth from me Like you know me like you're doing with your money. What's going on with your life? Are you taking care of your family? You want to drop another album? You want to do a podcast like are your bills paid or your credit card bills up to date? You know I'm saying like That's who I am. I'm a tough love kind of person, but my wife gift is exhortation and hospitality My wife will feed people my wife will will uplift people right in the way that our ministry works together Is complimentary? Yeah, my thing is from the church, right? I also think the church needs to be preaching prejudice out of people Right, how are we how right like whether you black white asian right like the gospel? We're supposed to love each other the amago day right having that appreciation For one another like how do you have people who go to church every sunday? But they go to work on monday And they're that teacher I talked about earlier like you don't like black students, right? The video you play my man was like I love this theology, but he hated black people I'm like, why are we why are we not preaching that out of people at church? Or why are we not focusing on that amago day? You know, I got caught you know, I got I caught flak for that, but you know, I didn't care, right? Call flak for what? The video that I had dropped Oh, yeah, I have I'll call flak for that. I mean, I don't care because I mean, I believe in balance I don't care if you know, I'm the and I'm the same way brother and I respect that You know I'm saying and so that's my thing Like I think we can even have these these conversations the the discourse and have the disagreement But when it comes to the end of it, you know what I mean? Like I honestly feel like you need people like me and I need people like you so at the end of the day What right we trying to get the people to gospel? You know I'm saying but I know people who live in neighborhoods that are so loud. They can't hear you talk So how do I get the volume down like they can't hear you over these gunshots? Right Like let me go work with the police department and let's let's do some stuff in this community Let's start a you know what we're working on right now Let's start a mentoring program and get all of these young men in the community involved with running So that they're not getting pulled into gangs and doing all that other stuff But I need somebody I need somebody to come in behind me and hit these dads in the head I need somebody to come get these moms jobs. I need people to come in here and do skills training But it's like we take this approach that like okay like Everything that we do and that God puts in us is significant like I talk about systemic racism I talk about white supremacy And I talk about that at research organizations that are global technology research companies Where I got fortune 500 CEOs admitting to the fact that they have discrimination at their companies and they're like well What can we do about that? I'm like, all right. How are you recruiting? What do your job descriptions say? What are your requirements? Where are you posting your job offerings, right? Like there's things that we can do in that regard as well As a pastor as a christian trying to make sure that people are affording opportunities in grace, man But but yeah, I I agree what you say and I do think the church needs to get out there And I'm I'm critical of it right like that's the ministry that I'm over and I'll tell you right now It's easier for me to get somebody to come to a men's breakfast Then it is for me to get men who are christian who are believers And I go to a majority black church to come out in the hood with me You know who's out in the hood volunteering with me a bunch of citizen women On our men's ministry call. I'm like, where you at? Where you at? Like why I got 50 60 year old women walking around the most dangerous communities in greensboro with me But I want to complain about all these kids what they pants hanging down and you know, they ain't got no daddies Okay, they ain't got no daddy. What you gonna do about it? Are you gonna go be their father? Right, are you gonna go be a good male role model? Are you going to go be a representative? Because if you not then shut up Right like complaining about problems you're not gonna do nothing about like if you're not in the communities And you want to sit there and we want to be ferocitical about people's life choices and their scenarios Like you use the the woman at the well, right? Jesus came and said look, I know what you've done. I know what you've been through I know who I know who you were with last night Right, I still love you and none of these people are perfect. So they can't throw a stone at you either You know what I mean? So I think that we need more balance But because of like stuff that's so polarizing, right? We got polarizing figures. We got polarizing organizations Um, you know, you played the clip, right? And I was like, you know, I said the thing about black lives matter I think black lives matter is a polarizing organization, right? I know like on their website They're they want they want to destroy the nuclear family like it's on their about page. It's not a secret Like you said public information So like I'm not rocking with that like if any, you know, and I told help, you know, my mentees or whatever like Hey, if you had an event go to events go to prayer walks sponsored by churches Right like I went to several prayer tests right that were led by local congregations or or um or groups of pastors That got together to pray for peace in our cities, you know, I mean and stuff like that So you can you can be active and bring people together and have like a public showing of solidarity around an issue And that's what you should have in the church, right? We shouldn't all just be hid We don't I always say we don't need to be light in the lighthouse, right? We're supposed to be a light to the world Right can't be afraid to go out But um you and of the one thing I'll touch on an agreement with your brother is discipleship Right like I mean honestly, that's why so many people in your comment section You know I'm saying because it's a bunch of people who go to church, but ain't being disciple So they got to come to youtube and they come into your channel channel the rooslans because they want somebody to talk to them Right, they want somebody to love them through where they are and where they're at And we're we're missing that in church, man And I think it got even you know It got even worse throughout the last year with the pandemic of people not being able to physically go to church because we're not intentional I mean minds you brought like if we're not intentional about the people who already saved Like how are we supposed to be intentional about these laws for we supposed to be finding? um And I think that's the church's responsibility right like we need to be discipling um And we also need to be encouraging people that the gifts that god gave you right the the vision that that god gave you Um go out there like I encourage people to start their own nonprofits Like nope not not to start another ministry at your church and give your pastor something else to do Go start your own nonprofit Like if you want to educate young black men in the I was talking to somebody in california the other day Once to start a nonprofit organization to raise money to get more black and latino young men to become lawyers Right like they will do it like what you waiting on like don't don't wait for your church to charter it Or whatever else go do what you feel like Um god's called you to do brother and I will you know i'm saying I will accept you know You know on kandace owing you know what I mean? I will be it for calling her auntie ruckus That was you know what I mean and i'm dead serious like that was liable to character and and I tell people that's why i don't do live streams because like i'm very sarcastic so um I've got that tendency, but i'm repenting that that's not that's not something she deserves like I said there's a lot of work She's done before she kind of got into the politics that I respect the the discussion. She's had at congress I respect she's an she's an intelligent woman You know what i'm saying I just I just didn't like the way that she was to me I felt like she was being platformed By the by the party to kind of to kind of cater to a particular audience So yeah, and I think and that's respect. I think the uh, I mean she probably won't ever watch our video, but That's fine But that's fine. I mean, but I I I believe it is it needed to be done for the for the body You know i'm saying um because again, you know, it's about it's about influence. It's about the power that we do have I mean, uh There's three institutions of power that God has established in this earth realm One is the family others the church and last is the state and so When when I hear this this narrative of people talking about black people don't have don't have power That's that's a lie. I mean we we do you you may be wanting more power than what God has sovereignly allowed you But why don't you why don't you exercise that that exusia? Uh in in your home, you know I'm saying uh exercise that that power in your in your wife and your children and and then in the In the relationship that God has sovereignly Uh and his there is providence allowed you to engage and I believe and no no and here and here's how we change We change lives we change it one soul at a time So I'm not I'm not trying to uh get on any national platform Now if God calls me to do that is because he entrusts me with more But whatever platform he gives me I know it is a responsibility that I must take seriously because I I I can have a greater weight Of influence just doing what I'm doing here. So that's why I don't just say bcv because I want to have it on my head I said bcv because it's it's my life I want everything to be through the grid of book chapter verse if it don't line up Then it needs to it needs to line out. I got to get it out of the way and so um I appreciate man, you know what's happening this conversation. I really do And I hope and pray that we can have more conversations like this because I believe it's important I believe that you know, we just scratch the surface on some of these things that we that we're discussing Um, but I think that it's it's it's good for for for two men two brothers to be able to to dialogue Notice nobody disrespected each other. You know I'm saying we you know, we're men We were able to to share our our our points respectfully and um, it's it's all love. So I definitely appreciate that man Um, let people know how they can reach out to you if you want to uh, you want to do that, bro Yeah, um, so, you know, I'm saying it's pastor Roy dockery on instagram. Um on uh, youtube And on uh on patreon as well So I've seen some of my patreons in the in the comment sections because I threw that out there Um to the community but yeah, man, like, you know, the same thing you said in bcv Like it's savage truth for me, you know saying like we got to be honest But to your point like if you're honest with yourself it should always cut in both directions So like if everything that I say is always critical of somebody else and and it's not cutting me Then then I'm then I'm not being that honest because the distance between me and the perfection of christ is vast Right, and I'm always trying to pursue it to get closer to that You know I'm saying so there's there's always something that that I can be challenged on and that we should be convicted of as well And that's what and that's what I pushed my team to do but um and my community man But yeah, man, like, you know, I appreciate having a conversation You know what I mean, like, you know, because I and I'm gonna tell you like people I saw a couple comments near like he ain't got no sources. I told you like I expected to have a conversation I didn't know like next time I'll come with like books. They're behind me, but I didn't have the bookmark to have a discussion. So I do read a lot, but um But yeah, and it's you know, I'm saying, you know, how I appreciate having the conversation man You know I'm saying it's it's all love. I love the way you had a conversation And you know I'm saying even to bringing up my old dear white church video Um with my whole girl sherry, but it's like you said it's public. It's out there, man I'm you know I'm saying like I'm you know, I mean, I'm honest, you know I'm saying in every opportunity that I can get you see what I'm saying. So and I and I and I'll tell you like I mean I probably just because I wasn't doing youtube It found Comments for me three years ago three years ago. I would have said black people can't be racist You know I'm saying so it was 20 it was 2018 2019 That god gave me that conviction in my heart and and brought that illustration right down Like what is a system and and again Education when he took it down to that classroom. I was like, oh because when I was thinking systems, right? Like yeah, I'd eat mass incarceration and like I'm thinking, you know prison system the federal government You know I'm saying like um housing and lending and home appraisals like all of that stuff But then when god put that in my heart down to that point, that's where we got to recalibrate at You know I'm saying and so for me like there's a progression as well Like I think we grow in our understanding. We grow in our grace Um, we grow in our and and we even go in our positions, right? Like if you're not evolving or changing then then you're not challenging yourself and you're not Following conviction because we're not perfect. So like we both have said something today that was from us and And you know I'm saying it and not from god. So it's like and we've got um, we got to be open to that man But much love that I don't know what the I don't know what the comments saying but much love to everybody in the comments That's still here. They've been talking I look at a few of my didn't look at too much. I wanted to be focused on our conversation It but I mean it's I just say this Still here at 9 37. Look man. Look man ruse line ruse line was all for this, you know I'm saying this this was this was his This was this moment. Yo, this was this moment. I mean he lives for this Um, but but he's probably gonna call me when we get off the Uh, you think I'm on my phone been blown up. So not only have I been ignoring Like ruse line ain't text me but a lot of my mentees have they're in the comments, but And I hope and pray man. I hope and pray those that support you Would would be able to see that you know My motive and my intentions were were were pure, you know, I'm saying this is how I get down This is what I do. I don't I don't try to you know come up anything out of my head If I say things I want to I want to back it up biblically or I want to back it up with reliable, you know, uh proof, but um, Anybody in my text message is coming at you. So just like you ain't nobody ain't nobody coming for you in my in my Yeah, I don't know yet. I know I got some notifications on my on this joint, but uh, look, I'm I'm gonna put it through a grid first I'm gonna put it through I did text you I was like, uh-huh like I had my phones down I took the comments off and like you said man, this is the first time we've talked I haven't you know I didn't look appreciate you for giving me some ad sense watching a watching some throwback videos But yeah, I did that on like I didn't want to I didn't want to come into the conversation With any perspective, you know I'm saying like I wanted I wanted to like we talked about before we went alive Yeah, let's talk about it. Um, let's let's have a conversation. So, you know I appreciate Ruslan like he texted both of us I'm saying Ladies and gentlemen, leave your comments. Leave your comments. Let us know what you thought about this live You know, I'm saying, uh, let us know what you thought about this live Let us know of individuals that you would like for us to you know to come up, particularly for me to come up with And then and then I would love to have uh conversations with you know with you guys on y'all platform I like I told Ruslan, you know, I always had to come in my yard I have no problem going into my downstairs yard. I ain't go I ain't gonna jump over the fence though You get over up the gate. Let me in you know I'm saying trying to trespass, but you you have uh, you have uh You know, you have that opportunity man for people at least I try to to give people opportunity because again We can text all we want bro. I And this is why this is this is just me Roy I believe having face-to-face or verbal Uh discourse is better than doing it, you know through text or through inbox You know I'm saying because I don't hear your heart and I rather I rather hear your heart than to assume it And so, um, that's why I tell people so people take it as as as intimidation. Look man I'm on I'm on the internet. What am I gonna do to you? That's the worst I'm gonna do to you is block you. I can't You don't think I'm gonna pull up at the house. I ain't stupid. You know what I'm saying? So I just believe that these conversations are important. So, um I like I told Ruslan and I'm putting Ruslan on on notice right now Everybody hear me. I've already told Ruslan that he needs since since he likes to promote and stuff Roy, so she's like voting joints You need to promote the conversation. Here it is. Ladies and gentlemen drum roll You need to promote promote the conversation between me and Alan par the one that blocked me Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, Roy come on Let's I'm just saying hey, yo, I'm just saying we men, right? It ain't like Alan don't know why why I'm at It ain't like he don't know how you can get with me. Let's let's get out of our fields Let's get out of our fields. We men and let's deal with the issue. I ain't messing around with y'all. I don't know what y'all doing I know At least you at least you're my witness that I've already said before all these peoples That hey, I would like to have a public conversation with Alan par tell Alan par to unblock me Get out of your feelings. Wait, let's see. See Ruslan. Say it. Look. Why ain't he coming on Ruslan? Why ain't he coming on? So so do I have to be do I have to be marcus rogers? Do I got to be marcus rogers for them to call me? Hey friend This is Alan par. This is no do I got I mean come on do what I gotta do for you to come up Let's have a conversation. Let's let's let's cut all this game out. You know what I'm saying? So anyway, um Yeah, and I mean and I just got to say like and I'm I'm gonna let you know because you know people seen a couple videos like Like honestly, I don't do live. I don't do live videos really, right? So like I mean just on a on a big For you know, I mean, so it's been much love. Yeah, but I typically I don't I don't really do live videos I don't really I rarely do them on my channel, but um, but cycle I'm dead up. So I'm gonna hit up Jerome I mean, I'm gonna hit him up because he was just asked me about that. So Give him my number to bro. Hey, listen, give you have my give him my number give my contact information I will love to have a conversation with him Uh, I invite him on my live. We can discuss it. You know, I did I did read his chapter in uh, urban apologetics And I and I liked it and and some people I'll tell you this also some people took issue with me when I had, uh promoted, uh Jamar tisbees the color of compromise the only thing I had concerned was one of the chapters that he was talking about about I think was dealing with white guilt or whatever like that. But but but overall the book it was on point I I enjoyed reading it was a good book, you know, and I think we as christians um How can you exercise discernment if you don't know what to discern? You know i'm saying we we need to be able to say okay, look, um, and I I know there's certain people can't do what I do So if you don't have the theological stomach or or the theological palette To take a lot of the stuff that you have that that I have to deal with and other people that do what I do Then I wouldn't advise you to read this book over here You know I'm saying it just you you have to know what you can, you know What you can tolerate and what you can do what you can deal with so, um, yeah I agree man. You can't you know, we always, you know, you got to know what to chew with to spit out the bones You know Everything ain't for everybody like I've got mentees in my patreon community But like I won't recommend a book for them until I talk to them. That's good All right, so like I need to know where you at, you know, I'm not gonna tell you to go You like to run and have him turn to a jw or more me like I read your book Devil like you can't let everybody read white fragility like you can't like they go come back Oh They be singing Eddie Murphy's kill the white people You know, but um, but yeah, man, but it was it was a good conversation I'm kind of looking at the comments now, man. And I you know, I'm even seeing the love over there. Um And again, man, if my my thing is like if if we go if we go have more conversations There, you know, I got love for youtube and I love sharing opinions, but I'm about action So like let's talk about what we gonna do Let's talk about how we gonna work in our communities how we gonna serve people how we gonna disciple people Like all of that. That's my patreon community. I call it my virtual congregation You know, we got calls we I you know, I talk to my people regularly because people need it You know I'm saying it's a lot of young people out there. Um, I know Ruslan's got a community Um that that pulls on him. I got people that pull off you got people that pull on you I could see it from your facebook comments, man So we've got uh, even if we're even if some of our ideas are different, you know, I'm saying, um But I think they need to be you know, I'm saying like we're both in the military. We talked about it before Like, you know, you got you got you didn't go overseas. Can y'all believe this? How are you in the navy? You don't get on the water, but anyway I don't go nowhere and you know, I'm saying Yes, that's a disparity Oh Yeah, yeah I appreciate you coming on brother and uh, man, we're we're going to have some more conversations I think one kind of say I want to have which is about the church. I want to I want to have a conversation about the church about about, uh, uh Church or politics about how Christians vote I believe that the bible speaks about that But I think that we can we can pocket that and table that for for a different uh, different discussion and Ruslan can even moderate it Or he can have somebody he can have somebody he want to you know, have me to camera with I'll let him be the promote. He he's the russian don king. That's what he's gonna be. He's gonna be our russian don king The armenian armenian armenian don king. Thank you armenian don king. Yeah. Yeah only in america But man, thank you, brother and uh, look forward to talking to you again, man Soon we got each other's number and we'll stay connected my brother All right, brother. Appreciate it. Yes, sir. Take care. You said man. Blessings to you. All right, ladies and gentlemen, um That's the live. Hopefully you all have been blessed and and have been um Encouraged by it and and we were able to Um discuss things. I believe Respectfully lovingly, you know, um straight up Honestly, and and I think that this is what it should be about and so, uh Yeah, I I I'm definitely I'm definitely encouraged by it. I really am. This is what I this is what I enjoy doing This is what I love doing. Um, I believe that this is what you know, um We're bringing glory and honor to God in the in the platform that he has given to me And so again, I thank those of you who have uh Supported this ministry again. Those some of you are at axe again. Uh, what is my Cash app or paypal information. I'll just put it up there again for you for those who wants to know Uh, first again, here's my email address seco woods at yahoo.com Show your thoughts about this video show your thoughts about the about the conversation that me and uh pastor roy Had You can do that either here through email or you can hit me up on um on twitter You can do that on through my dm on twitter or either through inbox on facebook Uh, again, if you'd like to support ministry finance, you can do that through paypal Seco woods at yahoo.com. Please spell the name right or I can't get it Or you can do it also through cash app dollar sign seco woods You like to support the ministry through merchandise. You can do that through the teespring link teespring.com For slash stores for slash seco's as within s in that particular link dash store dash Number two. So again, thank you all for your uh for your time. We're ready to appreciate it Hope you all have your have a blessed memorial day. Thank you for the comments Even those that may not have just may not have agreed. Love you anyway. Thank you. That's how we grow Iron sharpens iron. So I appreciate that and so uh, again Love you all you have a great day Prepare yourself for the lowest day and y'all know the drill. Y'all know what we do Whatever you do do all to the glory and honor of god. God bless