 I just want to start this stream by promising you no Star Wars spoilers. No, no, no, I get to go see today. I'm so excited to. But come Monday, then all bets are on. Still won't. Oh, man. Really? Well, the problem is that I'm in this theater that has like super reclining seats as a feature. Yeah. But it's a long movie and I know myself. You'll be the one snoring. The giant baseball mid of a seat. Yeah, I'm going to say is an 83 percent chance you're not going to fall asleep in this movie, but I'd be curious. I feel like I fall asleep. I know, I know, I know that definitely happened to be the element of theater. And not only the cushy seats, but there's beer. And that was, yeah, I had to like the whole, like have a glass of wine with a movie great in theory. Yeah, yeah, you want me to fall asleep or don't you? Yeah, all right. Let's get rolling. You guys ready? Hey, yep. Here we go. Do you like listening to advertisements? Me neither want to help and support greatest directly. They had to do the tech news show dot com slash support and help us reach our new milestone today. This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, December 15th, 2017 from DTNS headquarters in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from studio feeling at the beach. I'm Sarah Lane. And joining us today, we've got a full house. Patrick Norton is here is going to tell us what to expect from televisions at CES and beyond. Thank you, Patrick. Doom. We will expect. There you go. That's it. Thanks for joining us. Also here, author Rob Reed, author of After On and of course, host of the After On podcast is here. We're going to talk a little bit about cryptocurrency. Boy, are we? Yeah. Len Peralta is here to illustrate cryptocurrency, the future of televisions and beyond or something completely different. There was a lot of news this week. So yeah. Yeah. Now we've got a ton of news and Roger Chang is putting it all together. He's he is our PT Barnum. Wait, what? The ringmaster. Sure, why not? Roger Chang, the greatest showman. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman announced he will head a multi-state lawsuit against the FCC to preserve the existing open internet rules. Schneiderman cited comments made to the FCC under stolen identities and Washington State Attorney General Bob Ferguson believes the move violates the Administrative Procedure Act against arbitrary and capricious rules. The U.S. States of California and Washington are both considering rules to require net neutrality or ISPs could lose tax breaks and government contracts. Facebook's adding a snooze button to the top right drop-down menu. It'll mute content from a person, page or group for 30 days. If you don't want to unfollow them, you can just put them on snooze. Facebook also said in a blog post that research both internal and external shows that passively consuming information makes people feel worse than actively communicating with friends. Is that Facebook's way of saying just post more? Yeah, exactly. YouTube VR is now available on Steam for use on the HTC Vive. The free app is in early access and some users have reported it's rather unstable. It's still a bit unstable. NASA announced that a neural network from Google has identified two new exoplanets, Kepler-90i, the eighth planet found orbiting near the star Kepler-90i. Is the first solar system have as many planets as we have? Or, you know, we've discovered as many planets in a solar system as we have. The AI was trained on 50,000 signals that were already vetted to indicate whether or not a planet was there. It has analyzed 10% of the 150,000 stars in the Kepler mission. So, there may be some more. Now, let's get into some other top stories starting with the sad ones, Sarah. Ah, pour out a little liquor for AIM. AOL Instant Messenger is ending after 20 years of operation. Ending a service today and there's no replacement service for AIM, which is, you know, it's been long in the tooth for a long time now. But I was thinking about this earlier. If AIM was the first, literally a first chat protocol where it was like, you could see the other person typing, you know, it was like this real-time thing that we're all so used to to this day. But it was an ICQ. Well, there was for sure. I mean, it wasn't the only one, but it's like, think of just the lexicon of the wind and how that all was, you know, spurred not by AIM, but by young people. What are your memories of AIM? Let's go around, let's go around the horn and give one last eulogy for AIM. Rob, what do you remember best about AIM? Never once getting around to installing it. Oh, that's very, very counter-cultural of me. And now it's two- Beautiful sentiment. You didn't even have it in Netscape Communicator when it was just bundled in. I probably had it inadvertently, but by the time AOL bought Netscape, I was so long gone from Netscape. Patrick, what's what's your best remembrance of AIM? You know, I hated it or I thought I hated it until Facebook came along, that I understand what hating any kind of social communication tool was really about. Yes, it will be missed. Such a lovely sentiment as well. Maybe maybe we should just we should just move on from from eulogizing AIM. We come not to praise AIM, but to bury it. Apparently. Motherboard and Vice Media announced they will build a community network based out of the Brooklyn headquarters. The network will connect to fiber from an Internet exchange, so it won't rely on a traditional ISP. It will also connect to the New York City Mesh Network, an effort to provide community Internet by Wi-Fi also without needing an ISP. Project will document its creation with the aim of creating a guide to building an ISP for other communities. Motherboard points to NYC Mesh and Detroit's Equitable Internet Initiative as examples of community-owned networks that can bypass traditional ISPs. This would be great if Comcast and Verizon and AT&T and a lot of other scumbags, I'm feeling a little cranky this week, hadn't already worked really hard to pass state laws that prevented municipalities from creating their own networks. There's already straight restrictions going back to like 1996 after the Federal Telecommunications Act 2004. There was a Supreme Court decision where the basically the Supreme Courts of the Telecommunication Act would allow state to block municipalities from providing telecommunication services, both instances turned into festivals for people from, you know, mobile carriers and massive ISPs to start paying off legislatures to roll out bills that prevent communities from creating legislation. It's frustrating, like there's like, you know, I want to say something close to 14 states, you know, it's, you know, those bills are finding more and more resistance than they used to. And it wouldn't prevent this from happening because this isn't done by the government. It's done by the community, but not by the government. OK, point taken. I just think in many cases, it would be easier to organize it through the municipal government, but it's being blocked by the states. And yeah, we may have to, because I'm lucky, right? Because I'm using something called Common.net, which is an ISP startup that is their kind of their experiment, their proof of concept is here in Alameda where I live. So I walked away from Common. Like, I've been waiting for somebody to be a decent substitute for Comcast. So I get, you know, you know, I'm promised 75 megs up, 75 megs down. I typically get 100. My ping time is under 10 seconds. I have no cap and I pay 50 bucks a month, which led to one of the funniest conversations I've ever had with a Comcast sales person. And, you know, I hope they are successful because we need alternatives to the major providers, you know, Comcast and some of the others. But it's going to be it's going to be tough because it requires money and patience and efforts. And if motherboard or vice, I should say, you know, can actually make this happen. Awesome. If it inspires people, awesome. But I also think it's really frustrating a lot of state legislatures have been like, well, we're going to do good things for large companies, even if it prevents small municipalities from being served. That is how they talk. That is how they talk. Sorry. After the regular show yesterday, Tom and Roger and I were talking about the iMac Pro and and how, you know, not only is it expensive, but it's that whole Apple thing of of not really being friendly to people who want to swap out RAM or otherwise get under the hood. Well, Apple announced it's developing a completely redesigned next generation Mac Pro and a new high end pro display. The company also described the new Mac Pro as a modular, upgradeable design. Now, this news was buried. It was almost a throwaway really at the bottom of the company's new iMac Pro press release. So Blink and you missed it. I actually did until today, but it's kind of funny. We were just talking yesterday about like, why doesn't Apple make that more easy? Yeah, I'm curious about the modular part of this. Right. Upgradable seems pretty straightforward. Modular could mean an easier way to swap out internal components. It could also mean something either weird or cool that doesn't involve opening the case. I wonder if modular means dongles. I just I just hope not. Look, you can put it together. Technically, we all love it. Technically, modular. Rob, do you have any hopes on this? You know, I've never I've never used a Mac Pro. I've used Mac Book Pros. But, you know, desktop system. It's been so many years since I've had one. Always a little envious when I see how rapidly you can do transformations in Photoshop and stuff like that. But good luck getting one of those suckers on a plane. So true. Although you can take the current Mac Pro and just say it to Trashcan and then they'll let you on Thursday. Security company FireEye disclosed that attackers took remote control of a workstation running a Schneider electric triconex safety shutdown system and caused the halt of plant operations at an energy facility. They would not identify what facility or where it is believed by a few other security companies that the target was in the Middle East, possibly Saudi Arabia. It's also believed the attackers were not trying to shut down the plant that they were actually probing the system to infect it and modify safety systems and accidentally caused some controllers to enter fail safe mode, which brought the attack to the attention of the company. So it's it's kind of arguable that this was the system working that these these these systems went into fail safe mode in in response to the attack. Quick, let's shut out the lights in all of Saudi Arabia that will foil them. Yeah, I mean, it it's better than having them have control because it sounds like what they were wanting to do was get into the safety system so that they could break the energy facility later and cause damage. Yeah, or flicker the lights. Yeah, flickering the lights is annoying. But yeah, yeah, we don't know what we don't know what they were up to. That's that is spooky when people start getting into the power grid. Well, something that we do know is that Bitcoin reached 17,800 dollars. Well, US dollar on the bit stamp exchange Friday, continuing its accelerated rise of now 1700 percent on the year. Good work, Bitcoin. Cebo Global Markets launched its Bitcoin Futures Market last Sunday, and CME Group is launching its future market this coming Sunday. So, Rob, you had the CEO of Coinbase on your show this week. And I know you've been keeping an eye. Where are we at with Bitcoin as we record the show right now? So right now, I think it's at 17,665 dollars and that all important one cent on Coinbase right now. It trades at different prices on different exchanges. So, you know, let's just sort of call that possibly middle of the bell curve trade or price. And actually, I interviewed the co-founder who actually left. It went about a year ago. His name is Fred Ursam. And it was a really it was an extraordinary interview or is an extraordinary interview. I just put it up about a day and a half ago because I've never interviewed somebody who's quite such a perfectionist. But he really, we together took it on as a goal that like, let's create, let's structure a conversation. It's a spontaneous conversation, but let's structure it in such a way that somebody with only a glancing familiarity with Bitcoin could come in at the beginning and, you know, very, very quickly get up to speed so that when we get into these really crazy, bizarre what might happen five years from now conversations, you know, even the novices could follow us all the way there. So we our goal was to make it something that was both a rigorous overview of the cryptocurrency domain and then also like a deep speculative talk that advanced folks would get into. And Fred was just awesome because just the level of preparation and care that he put into it was amazing. And the result is I do think a really, really rigorous overview of the domain. I thought I knew it pretty well myself. I learned a ton from it. So that was kind of cool. So looking at the Bitcoin market and knowing what you know now after after getting this download from the co-founder of Coinbase, are we done? I mean, is this how much farther can this go up? Because I'm going to pull the veil back here on something. We recorded our holiday prediction special at the end of November. And one of my predictions was I think Bitcoin will pass $15,000 next year because it had just passed $10,000. And I thought I was being, you know, I'll make a safe prediction that I know will work. Well, you know, silly me. I was actually being too conservative. Yeah. So not that you know, but what's the general feeling about where this is all going to end up? On New Year's Eve of 2018, Bitcoin will be trading at $42,386.47. There you go, folks. You've heard it here first. So here's the perspective that I have on it now. When I first started getting interested in Bitcoin about five years ago, my feeling was this is going to be huge if and only if it becomes, you know, a vibrant transactive medium. And my thinking for that was, look, we all have X dollars in our wallets that we carried around for daily transactions. We all keep Y dollars in our bank accounts for week to week, month to month. If this becomes an important transactive medium, we're all going to need these little and mid-sized and even large reserves of this currency. And since the supply of Bitcoin grows at a mathematically precise and determined rate, the only way for the world to have enough Bitcoin for everybody to have, you know, a few dollars in their wallet and a few more dollars in their bank account would be if the value of a Bitcoin starts to inflate to cover that. And over the last few years, Bitcoin has categorically failed to take off as a transactive medium. There are, in fact, fewer merchants accepting Bitcoin today than accepted it in 2014. I lost a lot of faith in it as a result of that. And but now, you know, I'm increasingly viewing it as simply a radically superior form of gold. Most of the things that gold does well, with the inevitable exceptions of creating gorgeous rings and conducting electricity, but as a store of value is a way to keep things away from prying government eyes as sort of a hedge against the banking system doing strange things. Bitcoin does all of that, but it does it so much better because of the portability, being good luck crossing a national boundary or fleeing a burning house with 200 pounds of gold on your back. And the above ground value of gold or the total value of the above ground gold is about 7 trillion dollars right now. Now, some of that is on King Tut's stuff, some of it is conducting electricity and some of it is doing things that Bitcoin sucks at. But trillions of dollars are being used for this purpose that, you know, kind of like when MP3 downloads first came out, people are like, yeah, but they're crappier than CDs. And that just felt intuitively correctly. And it took time to realize that like, actually, no, this is kind of this weird digital thing that feels wrong is actually better. And I feel like that's starting to happen with gold. And so that's why I look at Bitcoin's market valuation now at about 300 trillion dollars or a billion rather. And it seemed less crazy to me than it would have felt had it happened a couple of years ago when I was more expecting it to become a transactive medium, which it has failed to do. So Bitcoin is to gold as MP3s are to CDs. Well, maybe streaming music. Let's let's update ourselves now. Yeah, music is to CDs in a certain sense. Yeah. I mean, I think that founder of Rhapsody, the founder of Rhapsody is a little biased for this stuff. But that is high praise. Oh, I think it's because you you were there. You saw this happen. I think that makes it more worth it from now. We can we can we can comfortably predict that it'll be a real weirdo with a retro fetish. She uses CDs and people are going to be streaming a great deal of music. And I was never a gold bug. It never made a great deal of sense to me because gold doesn't have an income. It doesn't make quarterly reports. It doesn't write dividend checks. That was never my thing, but it is the thing a lot of people. Yeah. Patrick, real quick before we move on, what you got is I mean, in terms of storing value gold style for people that are worried about, you know, everything, isn't Bitcoin considerably more manipulatable? Or do we do we know what's driving it up? Because the theories on this rains from like a board hedge fund manager that wants to destroy a currency, but it's too noble to do it to any functioning currency to, you know, the Chinese market control. I mean, the rise is kind of insane at this point. Can I hold this value? Yeah, the rise is insane. But I'd say that we don't really know what drives the market price of Apple from day to day. When a market gets this large, nobody truly understands what and people retroactively try to say, well, Apple wasn't. I mean, you do if there's an earnings report or something like that. My theory with Bitcoin is, you know, it's it's a lot more heavily traded than it was for a long time. It was very thinly traded and one pretty large decision maker saying, damn it, I'm putting a lot of money into that could really drive a price bike. One thing people don't appreciate. This is pretty interesting. About 20% of the Bitcoin allegedly in circulation is gone. It's disappeared. People lose their hard drives. They lose their thumb drives. If we imagine that Bitcoin is used probably quite a bit these days, I would imagine in large criminal transactions, big drug dealers die all the time at the hands of other big drug dealers. And if, you know, a paranoid person who had big holdings in book in Bitcoin gets gunned down, that leaves the system. Satoshi, the pseudonymous person who created Bitcoin, has many, many, many billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin, not one of which has ever been spent. So kind of one weird thing that goes on is that it's probably a lot fewer of them out there than we think. So the total market cap might actually be lower. But, you know, what's been going on recently? There's been a big media for Bitcoin in Korea. They are, they've basically deregulated to an extent that any consumer who is excited about this can now walk into a store and pick it up, right? Is that making a tulip bulb thing? I mean, I don't know. But I think Korea has been driving a lot of it recently. I have no opinion of what the price is going to be a year or two years from now. I could see it going to a thousand dollars. I could see it going to a hundred. Even the long term, I feel that the combined market caps of cryptocurrencies, those that succeed, are going to be a multi trillion-dollar asset class, long term. The question is, is Bitcoin, which is, you know, kind of a rickety old code base compared to Ethereum and other things, is that going to be one of the giant winners? I don't know. I mean, there was a lot of network effect around money. A lot of people know the Bitcoin brand. A lot of people are holding it. A lot of people are accepting it. That would tend to give it legs. But, you know, ultimately, I don't pretend to understand this stuff because if I did, I would have bought 10,000 of these things. Well, we've now had a reference to the tulip bulb bubble and the teapot dome scandal in one week. Kids, ask your dead great-great-grandparents. Folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes, be sure to subscribe to Daily Tech headlines.com. And if you want to know more about Bitcoin, you're going to want to subscribe to After On. We'll tell you a little bit more about that in a bit. Before we get on to that, though, Patrick, you've been keeping an eye on televisions and the home theater market in general. What can we expect from TVs at CES and afterwards, the rest of 2018? Well, they're going to hold their value considerably less than gold or Bitcoin. Not a good investment. Okay, got it. Not a good long-term investment as much as people might want to think they are. The big thing coming up is kind of like three or four big players right now. We're not really going to see Vizio as one of the big players at CES 2018, but LG, Samsung, and TCL will be the ones to watch. The basic rules when you're looking at TVs in 2018 or the tail end of 2017, 4K is going to be 1080. Deal with it. If it's bigger than 32 inches, it's probably a 4K TV now. You really can't buy a TV that isn't smart. Most smart TV operating systems suck, and if they don't suck now, they'll probably suck 12 to 18 to 24 months from now when the updates that barely trickle out stop trickling, unless it's a Roku. And if it's not a Roku-based TV, you probably want to get a set-top box, whether it's a Roku box, an Apple TV box. You know, I could go to a long list. Shield TV, Android TV. Yeah, Android TV boxes are particularly interesting. And 4K HDR TVs now start at around $300 if you're looking for something like a 32-inch TV. And a 32-inch 4K TV sounds really silly, although it may be a really interesting inexpensive desktop monitor. But HDR, which isn't going to be particularly well done on a $300 TV, is kind of more interesting than the actual 4K resolution. So that's kind of like the ground rules for buying a TV. It's going to be interesting to see, like, I'm really curious to see what TCL does, because one of the big hits, you know, they did a $650, 55-inch TV, you know, that's that 55p60 or p607, 4K HDR, it was the Wirecutters pick, it's Robert Herron's pick, it's $649, occasionally goes up to $850, but that is a fantastic TV. There was supposed to be a larger version of that, but TCL didn't make it. And a lot of people, myself included, are very curious to see what TCL is going to deliver in 2018, and we'll know about that at CES. And, you know, if they're going to do larger TVs, something that was crazy for me is when you look at, like, there's Samsung sells like 35% of the televisions in the United States, Sony's at maybe 12%, but Sony's televisions average like $1,200 this year, like the average television price from Sony, which is more than twice what the average price from Samsung or LG is, and almost four times, I think the average price of a TCL TV, which is to say that the big expensive TVs, like the wallpaper TV, it's two millimeters thin. It's a portable. It wasn't going to see it out of the CES coverage constantly. Yeah. Yeah, but that, that, you know, $25,000 television, the OLED, okay, maybe not the 75 inch one, but when you start looking at like the 55, 60, 65 inch televisions, it's basically the same screen from the B series all the way up through the Oh my God, I could buy a car for that money series. I mean, is Sony still being able to charge, you know, exponentially higher prices just because of brand recognition? I thought that that was something that people were moving away from like five to 10 years ago. I agree with you entirely. But what Sony did, God bless them, is along like they're, you know, like the Sony cameras, they're using top of the line sensors, and they're doing amazing things that no other camera company is kind of competing with. And in the case of the Sony television, OLED televisions, the more expensive ones, they have, they're using the same panels basically that LG does, they're buying their panels from LG, but they're doing some really amazing processing, and they're doing some really impressive, like they had that kickstand for the television, which sounds ridiculous, but every time I see one, I think I want to live in a loft in San Francisco with no furniture and white walls and this TV in the corner, and it's going to be magnificent. I'm going to be cool. Like I thought I was going to be at 18, which I'm joking a little bit, but they're doing interesting things with design, and they're doing interesting things like with the speaker system. Most speakers in television suck. But the ones in the Sony television, they actually basically turned the entire screen into a center channel so that the vocals appear to be coming from the people talking on the screen. So Sony's basically been like, we're going to do an expensive television, we're going to do different things from everybody else, we're going to try to create, you know, it's something that's attractive for people who are willing to pay the price for that acoustic surface is, you know, Rob was still talking about that two and a half months after he saw this TV at CES and Rob never talks about a television several months. It's not Rob. It's not Rob. It's not Rob. It's not Rob. It's not Rob. It's not Rob. It's not Rob. It's not Rob. It's not Rob. It's not Rob. It's not Rob. It's not Rob. It's not Rob. It's not Rob. Yeah, my co-host on the Excel. You can find his reviews and stuff up on hereinfidelity.com, but it's a gorgeous television. It's an interesting television, and I think that allowed them to charge a premium. But it's curious to watch, right, because Samsung needs to kind of catch up to LG. LG's kicked Samsung's ass and kind of overall image quality in 2017. So I think we're looking to see what Samsung does to kind of bridge the gap between their current quantum dot technology and OLED. So TCL, LG, Samsung, and Sony, probably the first three I said more than Sony, maybe, but Sony's got some interesting stuff going on. And then buzzword wise, I should keep an eye out for, or an ear out for micro LED and emissive quantum dots. Yeah, that's what we're, you know, at some point, quantum dot technology is going to generate the light itself, which will eliminate the backlight, which is a really compelling thing. It's kind of like the holy grail of quantum dot technology. So that's the emissive part. I get it. Yeah, it's going to emit. How long, how long from now with that? Is that likely to happen? And is that five years off in years? I think we're going to see announcements on it this year. I don't think we're going to see televisions this year. They've been a little, you know, cagey about how far along the technology is, you know, I'll say two years. And if I say two years, then they'll introduce it at CES this year. A single digit number of years. Yeah, it's pretty close. At least it's seven. Shatters precedent. Is that something that's like a new TV, a TV of the sort we just simply haven't seen? Or is that kind of like, yeah, it's a nice little incremental improvement? The really big one for, you know, it's one of those, it's one of those things like, you know, in tech thing this week, we talked about Atmos that's showing up in video games, right? So it's the theater technology slash home theater technology where you either have ceiling speakers in the ceiling or speakers that bounce against the ceiling and they create this huge collection of sound kind of above your head. Best example I've heard is the opening to gravity when the meteorites start going through. I don't think that's a spoiler. It's an incredible audio experience, right? It changes the way they design audio, blah, blah, blah. You know, there's, you know, one hundred and seventy eight or something tied as a whole bunch of Blu-ray titles on that. They're streaming it on Netflix and voodoo. But right now there's like eight, eight video games that have Dolby Atmos. So it's one of those things like, you know, HDR. I wouldn't want to, if you're going to own a TV for five years, try to make sure it's a TV with HDR. If you're, you know, the kind of person that buys a television every year, I don't know what to tell you to do other than spend lots of money and drive the economy. Hey, thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit. It helps us figure out what to talk about each day. You can submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com and join in our Facebook group and talk about all this stuff. If you want to talk about emissive quantum dots or micro LED or Dolby Atmos, join some other people at Facebook.com slash group slash daily tech news show. Let's check the mail bags, Sarah. This one comes from Marcus Hall and, you know, a lot of people are seeing Star Wars or already have or will this weekend or soon. Marcus says, I was wondering if perhaps one effect of Disney buying Fox Studios might be to transfer Star Wars production back to Fox so we can get the proper fanfare at the beginning of the movie. No matter how great the movies are and the last Jedi is great. It just doesn't seem right without the 20th Century Fox opening. There is so many things. I put a little note in our doc earlier where I was like, so true. Like that's what makes me cry at the beginning of Star Wars. There are so many things to talk about in this acquisition that's going to take a year and a half to complete. So what plenty of time, I guess, but but yet this is one that hadn't occurred to me. I'm like, oh, yeah, I want I want that back. I don't even care if it's actually Fox involved. I just want that noise at the beginning. Probably one of the top of why this acquisition happened. But no, maybe I wanted the 20th Century Fox opening. I didn't even occur to me. I didn't think about anything until oh, see, it's like it's like part of the whole thing to me. I asked to start that way. Yeah. All right. Well, let's check in with Len Peralta to find out what he has been drawing amongst all of this lovely tech news. Len, what do you got for us? Well, you know, this week, there was a lot of big stories. Of course, the biggest one Sound Blaster coming out with I'm kidding. No, you know, you got net neutrality to the retro show, Len. Exactly. Of course, you have the net neutrality and the last Jedi. So what did I do? I mashed them up. You know, the name Agit Pai, if you think about it, it sounds a lot like a Star Wars villain. And that's what I did. So, you know, Drew Agit Pai as as Kylo Ren holding his enormous Reese's coffee cup, which is sort of baffling. And I thought that was Photoshop. I didn't realize I was so too. And he's using a line that Kylo Ren says from the last Jedi trailer, let the net die. Kill it if you have to. And who knows? That might be what he may have done. I don't I don't think he's killed the net, but you know, I don't either. But but, Len, really, if people thought we were to even handed with yesterday's conversation about this, now they've got your heart. There you go. Yeah. You know, I just thought maybe this is kind of scratching an itch for somebody out there. Yeah, let it go over the edge. Why not? But yeah, you can pick this up right now at Len for all to store dot com. And of course, this is the last weekend to order my custom drawn holiday cards. I'm taking orders till the 20th. So you may want to get your order in. I can take care of it for the holiday store. Excellent. Len for all to store dot com. Thanks also to Patrick Norton, Patrick, if people want to know more about your wealth of knowledge about HGTVs or I don't know and everything else. Where do they get? A V Excel dot com is a great place to learn about home theater. Robert and I will be doing some coverage from CES this year. Bigging out most of those are going to hit on Tuesday and tech thing dot com T E K T H I N G dot com. Join the fun and we're excited to hang out with you guys at CES. Thanks also to Rob Reed, cryptocurrency extraordinaire. Where do people learn more about what you're up to, Rob? So my podcast is at after dash on dot com and this week's episode is the long interview with others. And, you know, every week or sometimes every other week, I talked to a different world class expert in a domain. It might be genomics. It might be augmented reality. It might be quantum computing. Might be terrorism. I talked to Sam Harris several weeks ago and we try to get really, really deep in a way that can take the listener from passing familiarity to ideally top percentile understanding of a domain because, you know, it's a long and depth unhurried conversation. And this week it is cryptocurrency. Go check it out, folks, after dash on dot com. If you were intrigued by Sarah mentioning that we were talking about the upgrade ability of Max and you want to hear that conversation, it was in fact recorded as the bonus episode that goes out to everyone who supports us at the co-executive producer level or above. You can become a patron at that level or become a patron at all. You can get our pre and post show and everything at patreon.com slash DTNS. And if you have questions, comments, feedback, anything feedback at DailyTechNewShow.com is our email address. We are live Monday through Friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 21 30 UTC at alphageekradio.com and Diamond Club dot TV. And our website is Daily Tech New Show dot com. Back on Monday with Veronica Belmont. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Well, I hope you have enjoyed this program. Oh, such a good show, you guys. Thank you. Such a good show. Almost wish it was like Yeah, it could have been a roundtable. That's why we need more roundtables in our uh, point. Good, good stuff. What should we call Patrick? I like the Philly Cooley T-shirt. Thank you. It's uh, it is my Josh. Rob, Rob Reed, do you know where I first saw Philly Cooley? That was my wife in some way involved because she's in Morgan Webb's apartment in San Francisco a long, long time ago. A long, long time ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She that's how I encountered Philly Cooley was through Morgan Webb as well. It was Morgan and my friend Josh Lawrence, both like like got a bunch of us to come over and watch. Crazy. It is an amazing show. Yeah. I'm terrified that they're going to do a season two and season three. What? I exactly. That was that's one of those things that they shouldn't touch. Yeah. You know, I heard that and I was just like part of me is like, I'm curious. And part of me is like they're going to up it up. You know, season two and season three of Rick and Morty have been just fine. Yeah, but it's Rick and Morty is in the long stringing. Thread story. Right. Like each episode you can watch even if you've never seen it. But yeah, I mean, yeah, there's an arc, but there you can. I mean, it's kind of like South Park that there's an arc in each season, but you can jump in into an episode and last shot it. Yeah. I think you can jump in in any given second. And not know what's going on. I think it would be lost. It's just a good. Yeah. Does modular mean dongles? Who will miss aim? Aiming toward oblivion, Full House Friday, Sir Lane Rockson typing a message. Give us your aim memories. I wonder if modular means dongles, deep dish, Bitcoin, modular Max dongles required. How about aimless? Aimless. That's good. Only reason I started using aim is because I had to use it at seeing it. You know, I used aim because there were a couple of people for whatever reason. We just never really started texting. We just that's the way we communicated. So I guess they're not my friends anymore. No, that's it. That's what this means. Yeah. Done. Done. I was using aim at Tech TV because we were using it to communicate. And like, oh, yeah. I remember when it first launched and you couldn't you could integrate this is even before AOL owned Nates Netscape. It was integrated in a Netscape communicator. And I remember thinking, this is stupid. I can just email someone and they get it immediately. Why do I need an instant message? I don't have money. Well, and then there was like the era of trillion where you could like combine your messenger service. Yeah, it was a big trillion. I use Pigeon. So does that. I use Pigeon, too. Yeah. They're all over pigeons. I thought that texting on the iPhone was aim because it just borrow it just stole the interface. Well, yeah, because I because the I message in OS 10 was integrated with aim for a while. Still it. Well, well, not any more. Like I was. Yeah, you're right. I only knew it stopped working because Pigeon started having trouble connecting to to the aim server. So I got disconnected. So go away. That's right. Well, gone. All of it done. Title aimless aimless. Yeah. Sounds like a Netflix series. It does. It's the it's the Netflix series based on you've got mail. God, I'm going to make this joke. Like I was like too bad. AOL wasn't based in Seattle because we could say aimless in Seattle. I'm literally out of cool puns. That's great. No, I like that. It's of course you and Tom. Well, it's not it's not correct. People in Seattle will be aimless just, you know, they're just a subset of the planetary population that will also be. But sleepless in Seattle is you've got mail. They're the same movie, right? The same movie. Literally just got the actors together into the same movie. Yeah. And then they paid that guy, right? Who did the voice? They paid him that says you got mail for that movie. Well, we got paid to do something because I think you just got minimum wage to say you've got mail like eight. No, I thought the whole thing was he got. Oh, yeah, I thought he got like a stack just to do that movie. Was it the real the same voice or just somebody? It was supposed to be the you've got mail. No, I know. Was it just, you know, for the movie or was it actually, you know, they licensed that little club got mail pattern baldness. That's a riff tracks. All people are cool. Yeah. That is my. Stance. You've got mail. I am. I'm a pathetic. A friend of mine was working at Apple in the mid 90s with a new, the then new MacBook power books came, right? Wanted to load them up with a bunch of different sounds. And they had this sort of competition in the cafeteria of who is going to make the duck quack like all employees were welcome to come and like make a quacking sound into a microphone. And my buddy won his his quack. Oh, really? Millions and millions of MacBook pros. And, you know, and so now he's he's he's had a, you know, great career and he's he's got a lovely family, a couple of kids. But he's starting to, you know, fear that maybe that was despite all of that, maybe that was his high point. Yeah, because like, that's, you know, that's big, right? I know that duck quack like I can hear it in my head right now. You can. And when you when you met him and you had a Mac, you're like, oh, my God, that's totally him. It is. I mean, is that just a tech version of peaking in high school when you casually run to our college like high school, like college sports? Yeah, but it's it's peaking in something that, you know, like the you got me like that you got male guy. He exists, right? Like, yeah, he lives in Ohio and apparently he does Uber as a side gig. Wow. But like how many people have heard him say this sentence like or how many times has that been heard by human ears? How many neurons has he lit up? Like he's got to be in a league with, you know, like presidents and prime ministers. That he's the voice behind welcome. You've got mail. No way. He's driving the the Uber and what you're playing, right? Yes, he's driving the well, it's part he's not doing it while he's driving. He's not driving while he talks, but he's in the driver's seat. Yeah, driving while talking is a very difficult thing to do. Very good driver capable of that. Lift drivers can do it, but not a driver's can. That's part of that. That's part of the onboarding process. You need to talk and drive at the same time. Right. I mean, grab taxis. That's one of those things you start worrying about when you get older. At least I do. It's like, do they peak? Ready? I'm done. It doesn't get any better. I definitely peaked. Long time. I know I peaked. Here's your here's your hillshire farm. That's fine. She's long. It's fine. Just get used to it. Is your gold bow go? Any bright, shiny moments of joy you have, Roger, be desperately thankful for them because you'll get fewer and fewer. Long terrible reason. This might be of the golden corn trophy that you showed me on eBay once, Patrick. I love those things that you're parenting advice. Oh, God, no, no, I'm torturing Roger because, you know, Roger and I have been torturing other for 20 years now, but the are almost 20 years. No, that was decalb corn. I think I have a half dozen decalb corn trophies now. Yeah, I will have more. I haven't looked on eBay for a decalb corn. You're going to have an entire bushel soon. What are they exactly? Never see. So if you grow up in the Midwest and you drive around the middle of nowhere, you they put these signs next to basically where they're either growing particular type of seed or if they're running experiments or like demo stations for farmers to come check out the growth of a particular product. And decalb was very distinctive. It's an ear of corn with green wings on it. And it's it's a fantastic image. It's just a fantastic piece of graphic design. And I've been obsessed with it since I was very small. And at some point I realized that in the 50s and 60s decalb was given trophies like, you know, the biggest producer in the county or the bloody buddy blah or the biggest pertum, whatever it was. And they're these crazy, you know, there's like a desk set and trophies and wall plaques with, you know, these an ear of corn with wings on it. So it's like the Oscars of sorghum sort of. Yes, I am an ear of corn with wings. Oh my God, that looks that looks weird. How are you? I represent decalb corn. You go to that corn palace. Is it in Nebraska? You know, that big boy. That big thing they built out of corn. We're going to do that corn maze once. It's pretty fun. A maze maze, like a maze, like we got lost in the freaking corn maze. But you know, it's say they set it up around harvest time and you know, it's a maze. We did one for a maze. Oh, wow, the corn. That's good. I don't know how we failed to make that joke on that day. Because you have sense. I don't know. I'd be a colonel of truth in that one. There's an example of not having restraint. But Tom is all ears or popping off with puns again. Wow. Don't get too survy. Every time one of the boys makes a pun, I look at him and be like, you've been talking to Tom again, haven't you? And they give me this look like what you talking about. Who's that? Someday we'll all come together. I don't want to get this. All right, I am going to log off. All right. Have a lovely weekend. Enjoy Star Wars. Yes, I will. I will. Don't spoil it. No, we'll not spoil it at all. I heard R2 did it. You did it. Yeah. Whatever it was. Of course, R2 did it. I'm going to go now. Ruiner, that's how there's so many R2 units. Have a good Star Wars weekend, everybody. All right, thanks. Let's take care of one and all. I got it. I got a roll, too. All right. Thanks again, Rob. That was great. To Portugal, I will add Morgan for me. I will do that. I had a morning. Bye bye. Bye. I don't need this. Roger, are you stopping the broadcast? Stop and broadcast now.