 So grief So I had a joke I'll just go because this is this is my Now this did backfire on me once I was playing counter strike and we won The last it was basically we were down and we caught up and it was there then 10 we had nine We were counter-terrorist we won the match all we had to do was defuse the bomb and that would have been a draw as opposed to I was losing So I thought it'd be really funny if I let my guys start defusing the bomb and then I knifed him to death and Then I went to defuse the bomb and then I sneezed and knocked my mouse off the computer And by the time I got my wits back together. It was too late. I Quit before they kicked me off the server So what is griefing Griefing is not trolling Trolling and griefing are two different things Trolling is trying to get a rise out of someone in the meta context of the game Yelling things in the Xbox live chat typing your ridiculous racist nonsense Whatever is you kids do all those things are trying to get a rise out of people, but griefing is Playing with alternate utility utility is that game theory term for what you're trying to get out of a game now if I'm playing counter-strike I'm usually trying to win. That is my utility, but at that time when I was griefing When I was that guy and I did that my primary utility was not winning my primary utility was getting a laugh Griefing doesn't necessarily mean that you are blocking your team Griefing just means that I am playing for a utility that is different from what everyone else is playing for Griefing usually occurs when one person is not having fun If I'm playing counter-strike, and I'm losing and I'm not having fun and I can't have fun by playing the game itself I might have a lot more fun team flashing and just being a dick And now I'm winning I'm winning and the other teams winning everybody's winning except the rest of my team So the point of this is that if someone is griefing in a game that you've designed for example You need to think long and hard about why why is that person bored? Why does this game allow someone who is losing to grief? Why does this game even give them that affordance affordances are like a UX UI tunnel affordances are the things that you are afforded The actions you are allowed to have based on your interface. So this table it has some affordances I can flip it over table lets me do that However, if they chain it down that I can't I no longer have that affordance a bus shifter that has a glass window and Affordance of that glass windows that I could break it if I'm a vandal, but I can't really write on it But if it's wooden I can't easily break it, but now I can write on it So games that have a lot of griefing in them either are not serving the interests of the utility of the majority of players who are playing them are poorly designed in some fashion or Just have a really bad community around People who play the game not for the purposes of the game itself the game's utility structure is jank Don't ending Losing only happens when a game ends you've played monopoly you lost monopoly three hours ago But there's two people going around in circles until someone goes home or flips the table over So the reason games like that never ends partly because if I know I've lost I could just say let's just stop you win However, I don't say that because I've already lost. I just keep playing maybe the other person is gonna give up Maybe they're gonna go home and then I win Which is just another a lot of games have this problem where the game is over But the game does not give the winner a way to end the game or it does not give the loser a way to end the game Games need to end About at the point where the majority of the players have figured out that the game has actually ended and is over Otherwise, this is one of the prime reasons griefing starts occurring This is where your friend who already lost settlers starts making all these ridiculous trades with that girly likes Because he lost anyway and the game's going on forever and he just wants it to end