 at the face behind the Hey, note to the video watchers if you're watching this on the Daily Tech news show channel great You don't have to pay any attention to the next thing. I'm gonna say if you're watching this on the ace detect channel We are going to I'm going to try to put these up But we're streaming them on Daily Tech news show channel. So the official channel has moved So you really should go subscribe to YouTube comm slash Daily Tech news show if you want to get these videos the fastest way possible Ready to do a audio podcast I've done those Alright, here we go And remember to find your inner peace go to Daily Tech news show comm slash support And now your moment of Zen This is the Daily Tech news for Wednesday June 17th, 2015. I'm Tom Merritt joining me today as he does most Wednesdays Mr. Scott Johnson of the morning stream the instance boop and more Hi, Tom. I missed you last week. It wasn't quite the same without you. Thank you for filling in quite admirably Thank Brian in but for me as well. You guys rocked it. Yeah, we had a lot of fun And I think it was it was it's always interesting to whatever the rhythm of the usual day is to mix that up with another person You're not used to doing that rhythm with but someone you're used to having a whole nother rhythm with and then trying to make that work It was a fascinating experience and I think it turned out good. So thanks for letting us take the wheel for at least a day I think what you're trying to say is rhythm is gonna get you Yeah, that's always gonna have look if I learned anything from the 80s. It was that you are the Gloria Estefan of technology my friend Now Scott Johnson has been covering E3 like a madman from the outside live-streaming commentary of every freakin press conference Raj Deute writer at Reckon is here as well He's been covering E3 from the inside. How are you doing Raj? I am Okay I'm tired. I'm having a lot of fun But jet lags in there somewhere as well. So yeah jet lag travel halfway across the planet and E3 Just layered on top. That is a it's a hell of a combination. We really appreciate you taking the time to join us today That's great to be here. Thank you. All right. We're gonna talk a little bit about virtual reality Partly what we saw from it at E3 But also talk a little bit about where it's going where we think it's headed whether gaming is even the right application for it Going forward, but let's start off with some headlines because we got big news about Microsoft Ars Tectica reports Microsoft made it seemingly yearly executive reshuffle They always do it sometime in the summer The recode Xena freed thinks it has more to do with people this time than strategy Former Nokia CEO and head of Microsoft devices Steven Elop is out again And his devices division is now going to be rolled into the Windows group under Terry Myerson It'll be called the Windows and devices group. Kirik Tatarina of leaves the business services division He was running dynamics and that will all get folded into the cloud and enterprise group under Scott Guthrie Eric Rudder is leaving and his education responsibilities move under Chi Lu in applications and services All those folks leave today separately chief insights Officer Mark Penn will leave in September and take his insights to Steve Ballmer back to digital marketing services company Stagwell group. Oh, I was hoping he's gonna go work with him with the Clippers somehow He'll take his insights to the Clippers as a point guard Wow, well Microsoft's hurtling ever closer to services not devices Reuters reports the California Labor Commission has determined Uber drivers should be treated as employees not Contractors not going a thing in the world that is Uber versus governments The ruling was filed Tuesday stating Uber quote is involved in every aspect of the operation and awarding $4,000 to Barbara and Berwick a driver who complained Uber is appealing the award Yeah, this is really interesting because Not to get too far down the labor law side of things You can't continue to pay for someone as a contractor just to avoid paying payroll tax and benefits Especially in the state of California and what Uber is saying is hey, we're just a service, you know Your Uber drivers have a car. There's people out there who want to ride We just provide the software the hooks them up And the state of California is saying look, maybe that was true once we don't know actually that's not what state of California is saying But what they are saying is that is not true you Pretty much set up everything for the drivers and so they are de facto employees and so you have to pay them as such Yeah, I don't know it's it's funny because it feels like they're gonna have this fight state by state Every state's gonna be a little bit different. I bet they wish there was some sort of federal single Point of entry on the law to say this is how it's gonna be but because we do this state by state I feel like Uber's just getting started with this and Barbara's probably not gonna be the last one Nest made some new announcements according to the next web no more drop cam. It's just the cam a 1080p successor to drop cam with night vision a tripod and a speaker you can talk through all for 199 bucks Drop cams cloud recording gets a name change as well to nest aware and they upped your storage to 30 days for your $10 a month It's also available outside the US you can get it in the US UK Canada Germany France and the Netherlands today Or at least you can order it today and it ships next week The nest protect also got an update that makes it better at detecting fires Which is the thing it's supposed to do that's good You can also silence it remotely with an app coming next month for the same price of $99 is the old one nest also announced home safety rewards plan which gives you a 5% break on insurance premiums and a free protect if You're willing to share your data with insurance companies Liberty Mutual or American family. Would you do that Scott? Would you hand over? Your nest data to an insurance company in order to get a 5% discount and a free protect There's no other advantage, right like me trading on that information. It's just getting me a discount I don't think so. I think I would not do it Insurance companies already do some crazy things with my data I don't know that I want to provide additional data to them to figure out ways to Make it so that they're scam. Look at me. I'm getting on a soapbox. So their scam won't Built me out of more money than I should be paying for insurance there Yeah, but but they're giving you a discount, right? It's lowering your premiums. Raj. What do you think? It's interesting. I guess it's it's a little different for us in Australia We don't have any of the nest products really so and the the cam isn't isn't coming our way either so I'm sure you're just mad at nest all together pretty much Yeah, if they could get their act together and recognize another country besides the US that'd be good But no, no, no, I know a lot of people that have imported thermostat and things like that The insurance stuff ours is a little different to American insurance But it's still just as crazy in terms of things that the law for to get you in there So I can see a lot of people just going who cares they could I'm getting money off so why wouldn't I but I Think some more Privacy aware people are probably going to take it like Scott has and And be a little more precious with it for the data they're providing make a good point though It's like a lot of this data that we are being asked to give up for a 5% break is probably data They're going to get somehow some other way at for insurance purposes So I guess maybe all I'm doing would be offering them the convenience of getting it quicker easier And then I get a break and maybe it's all water under the bridge But I don't know it's insurance companies who rub me the wrongest in this world in this life And I feel like not giving them anything else. Yeah, you're saying they're like vampires don't invite them in or they'll not leave Also, I had a friend in high school named Cameron and we called him the cam So you can do a trademark You're gonna say you're quoting the insurance That's even cooler Reuters is reporting the FCC has proposed a hundred million dollar fine for AT&T over the way it informed unlimited users about speed throttling Boy, do I agree with this AT&T has 30 days to respond after which the Commission will review the proposal and make a decision The FCC says AT&T did not properly inform customers when reductions Would happen and how much speeds would drop that violates transparency requirements passed in 2010 Yes, so this is a net neutrality related decision, but not to the current Rules that just went into effect next last week They're the part of the 2010 order under the previous FCC commissioner that didn't get struck down in court And it doesn't have to do with net neutrality has to do with transparency. It's saying AT&T did not sufficiently alert customers to what they were up to I Agree because I don't feel like I was sufficiently alerted back when I had an unlimited plan I kind of feel like it you they sufficient they that they probably met the letter of the law I don't like the plan any more than anyone else does but I find it hard to believe that anyone was actually confused By the way, they were with more competition in any given space of any business The advantage of that is that if somebody's being lousy about communicating with you are only adhering to the letter of the law You have another place you can go where they're taking a closer interest in you as a customer You're having better customer service, but in limited options world that is mobile connectivity They have to have their hand forced sometimes to be clearer than just the letter of the law may allow because we don't have another Choice where somebody can swoop in and say we like you so much We're gonna make sure we tell you everything up front or what other whatever other better service We're gonna give you so so you know they have to understand or at least they have to not be surprised But there's pressure on this because you know there's just aren't a lot of other options There's one or two other things you could do and that's it Excuse my ignorance like in Australia We only have one internet provider that offers an unlimited plan So is it are we talking about internet or we talk about mobile data? We're talking about mobile and it has to do with grandfathered in people where they had unlimited an AT&T change the plan to say Okay, you've got unlimited still but at a certain point We're gonna throttle you down to a slower speed, right? Which is what a lot of Australian services do with then with internet mobile data and things like that They don't actually advertise it unlimited and then change it later on because we've never really had the bandwidth provided as unlimited in the first place So a couple of companies get around that in Australia using what they call an acceptable use policy Where once you know you're streaming stuff for three days straight and they see that spike They may come in and intervene on your account or you've downloaded two terabytes in the month and and perhaps that's a little little crazy so But then we have an industry ombudsman that you can take those complaints to as well We do too. It's called the FCC Yeah, it's an interesting concept one that we don't Would have been nice if we had the same same issue, but because we've never had that unlimited Thing to deal with yeah consider yourselves lucky is what I'm getting It's a nice problem to have had Yeah, yeah for sure and and just to be to repeat what Scott said Reuters reported FCC proposed a hundred million dollar fine They haven't levied the fine. You'll see headlines all over the place today saying AT&T slapped the fine They have not yet been fined. So in 30 days when the FCC rules on this again, and you're like, I thought they already were fine Just know that's why they're waiting for AT&T to defend themselves basically The verge reports Amazon is updating the Kindle paper white today with a new 300 pixel per inch display That's twice as sharp as the last iteration and pretty much equal to the hundred ninety nine dollar Kindle voyage The new paper white though only sells for a hundred nineteen dollars So right now if that's the only reason you were getting a voyage You might as well get a paper white you can pre-order today for shipping by the end of June Tom I'm in this problem spot where I'm kind of hooked on a nook for some reason And I think part of it is because it does kind of what I need It's a nice device reviews well and what it lacks in terms of the robust Ecosystem that is Amazon it makes up foreign things like I can do You know very easily get an e-book from somebody because e-pub formats are supported and sort of drag-and-drop and all that But that is really tempting and I was just about to pull the trigger on the on the sort of backlit competitor That the nook has and now I mean that's an extreme and deal for a much better display All right, that's why I come on the show now. I know what to buy That's right And yet In gadgets reporting Dropbox has announced a new way to request files from multiple people called the file requests One link sent to multiple people lets them all upload to the same folder with a maximum capacity of two gigabyte None of these senders need to have a Dropbox account. It turns out pro and basic accounts get the feature today and business users get it in a couple of weeks That's actually very cool and collaborative and something I will use. It's awesome. Yeah, I agree Intel acquired Canadian smart eyewear maker recon according to CNET Recon's jet glasses are $700 have a built-in display to show directions activity statistics smartphone connectivity for texts and notifications and Camera for photo and video the recon team will partner with Intel's new devices group to develop new wearable technologies Intel really wants to be ahead of that game terms that the deal weren't disclosed. So we don't know exactly how much they paid AMD is unveiled several new GPUs three to be exact another fury name saw some of this last night of the PC conference that they had for you three according to ours Technica the flagship $649 r9 fury X and the $549 r9 fury and r9 nano These are all based on the Fuji chip and update to this GCN architecture. I want to say GNC because that's where I get pills It will feature four gigabyte of on-package high bandwidth memory The RX fury X is comparable to the Nvidia's GTX 980 TI, which was currently the big granddaddy with the for a four thousand nine ninety six stream processors or excuse me four zero nine six stream processors up to 1,050 megahertz core clock speed 256 texture units 64 render output unit 512 gigabytes of memory bandwidth and 67.2 giga pixel per second fill rate and six phase phase Voltage regulation module for overclockers good Lord. It also has a water-cooled 120 millimeter radiator Saw some of the stuff close. They were shown up during that conference. It was pretty impressive Anyway, the r9 fury will be air-cooled version of the art of the fury X and the r9 nano a low-power GP based on the same Fuji processor the fury X launches June 24th So coming right up and the fury on the 14th and the nano sometime in the summer It's the Fiji processor, right? Why keep saying Fuji? Yeah, Fiji. Yeah, why do I keep saying Fuji? It's really a big fan of the band. I think just want them to have have their do I like to film. Maybe I'll think of the water It's water-cooled Yeah, now it cooled with Fiji water. I look exactly right I like your your hooked on phonics method, but I could use it half an hour ago when I started Anyway, those parts you look pretty impressive and it's good to see some I think real It's interesting. I feel like they've been lagging behind and video with the competition lately and this puts them kind of on par So I guess good on them Yeah, it's also a web. Oh, sorry. It's also good for a price war as well and video stuff's being far too expensive to Yeah, 100% agree next web researchers next web reports researchers from Indiana, Georgia and Peking University Demonstrated a vulnerability. They call Zara X a r a and the OS 10 keychain that would allow attackers to gather passwords The group essentially created a malicious app got it accepted in the OS 10 app store and because OS 10 has no way to verify Which app owns which credentials in the keychain that app could get access to every password stored after it was installed? Good news was it couldn't get access to the stuff from before it was installed still They also demonstrated another attack that spoof URLs to steal a private token because OS 10 doesn't check which apps are allowed to use Which URL schemes a group notified Apple of the issue on October 15th of last year and Apple asked for six months to fix it and With the publication today. The group says the problem still is in existence in both 10 10.3 and 10 10.4 I was wondering why they're so slow on that. They don't seem like Impossible tasks to fix in the OS. I don't know why they would take so long to do it I'm having a similar problem a GPU problem specifically with the current version of Yosemite and Apple's just like quiet on the issue. They know it exists. They know something needs to be done It's kind of a production of the machine problem and they I don't know they do they're weird with that slow with those updates I don't get it. Anyway, I feel like it must be De-prioritized they usually what happens in these cases is they say They the actual chance of someone taking advantage of this and doing it is low enough that we're gonna put it down Behind some other things we're gonna do. I guess that good news drone fans. Hey drone fans. Good news The next web reports that that all congressional hearing are at suit. Excuse me at a congressional hearing on Wednesday senior FAA official Michael Whitaker talked about him before said commercial drone regulations quote will be in place within a year unquote It's awful speedy compared to how they usually move on top of that Amazon's vice president of global public policy said we'd like to begin delivering to our customers as soon as it is approved We will have it the technology that is in place by the time any regulations are ready Now I have a question about this and I can't let this pass without asking it because I don't hear anybody talking about this And our drone flies into my neighborhood and comes to my porch to drop down to give me my toilet paper or whatever I ordered, right? When that happens, what is to stop the brat 13 year old jerk kid up the road? From be done in that thing or throwing a web over it or kicking it off the thing or trying to steal the drone Like that that is a problem man Obviously anti-aircraft defense missiles rail guns will be installed on all Amazon drones This though they talk about this convenience listen I mean it's the same it's but but it's not any different issue than if the UPS guy drives up and drops something on your porch What's to stop the kid next door from running over and taking it? Well that I get it's the drone I'm worried about like well, there's it's no different. It's like what's to stop somebody from doing something bad to the thing Yeah, people don't throw nets over the the postie though. Do they not often? It's a good point Visible but what what happens when a drone lands at someone's dog attacks it and the blades Actually hurt dog. Yes. I mean in all seriousness I wouldn't be too shocked if these well first of all quadcopters are probably gonna have they're gonna They're not gonna work as well because they're gonna have the guards around the blades for that very fact My guess is when they first implement these these drones will be carrying the packages two particular sites To speed up delivery and then this then and then they will be the finished delivery will happen by a person But you know you guys you guys sound like folks in the 1800s like what are these these automobiles? They belch out smoke they scare the horses They're horrible. I mean these are not Unsolvable problems. That's a really good point and you know somebody I just got a text from a friend who's listening to the show live And he suggested maybe some of these early ones will drop kind of winch style lower these packages Release them, you know an inch before the cement or whatever and then never touch the ground and perhaps be less vulnerable that way I just know people get hackery and they want to do stupid stuff And as TV Z gone points out is also against the law So if somebody does it they can be prosecuted and find a possibly thrown in jail I mean so like a seal team coming in at night the drone will just sort of fly into your neighborhood and drop its payload and then just Yeah, which is also a little creepy I'm ready to bring it. I'm I'm excited about I was I was shocked by two things in this story one that the FAA actually seems like to get their their rules in place And two that amazon is ready to to implement this. That's why I'm skeptical I'm like they're not going to implement it the way it looked in that video We saw where it just the drone just flies up to your house There's gonna be some it's gonna be some step towards that. They're not they can't be ready for that yet. I Don't think time now for some news from you We get all kinds of news items from our subreddit daily tech news show dot reddit.com So go there and join in the fun if you haven't already vote some stories up It helps us figure out what to put in the show Andrew daily sent us this one from our second Got about an exploit in the customized version of the Swift key keyboard That's bundled in with the Samsung galaxy s6 s5 and a few other galaxy models When downloading updates, the Samsung devices don't encrypt the executable file And that means that if somebody's in the middle They can do a little person in the middle attack to modify upstream traffic exploit was demonstrated Tuesday at the blackhead security conference in london by ryan welton a researcher with security firm now secure Swift key said in a statement that its google play and ios versions are not vulnerable So it's just the modified one samsung packs in also you don't have to have the keyboard active It's the update that causes the problem and you can't turn on the updates You can't uninstall it samsung has apparently shipped a patch to wireless carriers, but it's unknown if that patch has been applied yet It's that weird ecosystem where stuff can get hacked around with and forked and messed with and then you got to worry about 10 versions and It's another of those d prioritized like oh, how often is somebody going to do that with the keyboard? We're about that later Oh, my turn. Hey, check this out DVD on my my initials are missing this through me. Uh dvd mon. Hey Set in a tech nerd article that the european court of human rights has decided that delphi Asas i guess versus astonia. I think it's delphi as yeah There's only one ass That websites can be liable for user comments. Oh my gosh. This always happens in europe Uh, the court found the original article published by delphi was balanced It ruled that since the site wanted comments and made monies off those page views it incurs liability for what the The commenters ever wrote the ruling also finds that since delphi couldn't could remove comments its filter Uh, wasn't good enough to catch all the offending comments and some comments were anonymous delphi is liable Delphi, I guess or europe or excuse me europe has no equivalent to the u.s. Uh rules when it comes to safe harbor Um, yeah, so essentially this court said well, you're a big company You make a lot of money off things and you knew people were going to comment So you're liable for any comments that were in there And in fact because you had a filter running that didn't catch some comments that you had to pull later upon request Uh, you're liable for those comments because your filter wasn't any good Basically, they took every argument that could possibly made one way or the other and made it work against delphi And this this could have some some pretty bad precedent effects I don't know exactly how bad how you know how this works in europe But it it removes safe harbor if you're a large company What's the is this ringing any like similar bells as to the way things work in australia? down there Slightly insane to me. Uh, I don't know if anyone else feels the same way, but um Especially with our major newspapers that have commenting sections on them that don't require any Verification of who you are or you know, you just pop in A nickname and you pop in what you want to say and I guess they approve them these days because it had so many that were offensive or Just spam I guess but What what what happens to a company like discuss if something like this comes through the us Um, and everyone's wordpress blog that implements commenting Well, immediately you start to think about all the things you can call commenting our forums form of commenting is somebody's editorial Space on some website is that commenting like at what point do you do start to have weird definitions of what is commenting? And what the site should be responsible for and then are you just creating a chill effect that says well Then nobody should have any discussion at all Uh, or otherwise the sites are all liable for some terrible things some guy said Like to me it gets really complicated really quick and i'm always surprised by these Not this this isn't really a ruling I guess But uh, but uh, you know to hear these kinds of things happening overseas I'm like well, what kind of internet are you using I thought it was the same one It was me. Yeah. Yeah I would have thought the us free speech would have just covered this off and pretty much, you know Preventive from coming over to to america in australia. We don't have those exact laws, but a similar It's not even a first amendment issue in the u.s. There's a the um The cda I think is is the bill that has the safe harbor provision that says look if you're Allowing the public to post you're not responsible for what they post Upfront you're only responsible if someone says it needs to be taken down to take it down Like can a city be held responsible if somebody blows themselves up in the middle of it? Is that you might do you create that's essentially what uh, what this court is saying is well You created a big city and invited people to come in and you made it really inviting for someone to blow themselves up So it's your fault. Yeah, that's weird. Yeah, it is weird And that is a look at the headlines All right real quick. We moved on from it real quick in the headlines My mistake there. I want I want to revisit the microsoft shake-up real quickly before we get to virtual reality Because there's some kremlinology here and like I said ena freed thinks it's personality related But a lot of people are saying it's strategy related to see the devices group rolled into windows And I want to get your guys real quick impression Because to me when I first read this it was very clear Okay, steven elop was balmer's guy who brought the devices business into microsoft sachinadella very platform oriented Very cloud oriented doesn't want to kill the devices but doesn't see it as big of a deal They agree to disagree steven leaves devices go into windows and it fills into the sachin mania Of hey, we want to make things work for everybody and we'll make a few examples as devices rather than we're going to be a big devices company But ena freed says it seems like it might just be more about people and sachinadella Organizing his team with the people he wants to have on it So in other words, it's not necessarily um an overall push for him to get everything toward services and platforming and that sort of thing and And not necessarily him saying well, we need to dump all our hardware initiatives It just could be that he needs the people around him Like any other company when you see these shake-ups this could just be I need the right people doing the right things in the right places I think that's probably it's always some of it even if this truly is him Thing I'm more cloud oriented. I need people who are so I'm moving shuffle them around to make that right It could be both. That's a good point. Yeah, it feels like both Raj, do you have any any thoughts on it? I think I mean he's been in the job now for a little while and It's not unusual for a CEO to come in and move his team around to to see Make things the way that he wants them to run or they want them to run With the right people in the right places are under their new governing rule. So I don't think it's Anything too ludicrous and to be looked into too far, but it's just another corporate shake-up So you don't think there'll be airbrushing steven elop out of photos You never know They probably do that with a lot of farmers photos are developed. They might do it. Yeah All right, let's talk a little bit about virtual reality This was supposed to be the the dominant theme At e3 and when you look at the press conferences They got mentions, but we didn't get a lot of news Even what could have been the the biggest bombshell the fact that microsoft is cooperating with valve on its vr platform Didn't mention the vibe by name and didn't have any details and you didn't hear valve make a peep about it so Let's start with you Raj from somebody who was walking the floor at e3 How big did virtual reality virtual reality seem there? um It's it's it's present. Uh, it's bigger than last year oculus were the main players last year But that said morpheus was being shown by sony and there was a line Going around the convention hall and back again all waiting to check out morpheus But it was a new kid on the block and no one had really had a chance to play with it this year It's there again. Sony have a big double story Stand on the floor and they're showing off a couple of the games that they mentioned in the in the briefing And then there's oculus again with another double story stand seems to be the common thing this year And they've got their new controllers in a showcase there. They've got samsung gear vr, which they power as well um, and then there's a couple of smaller players about the place microsoft almost Have nothing vr ish on the floor. I'm sure the hololens is borrowed away behind closed doors somewhere And if that was If that was on the floor, it would be like morpheus last year, I'd imagine it It's the one everyone's buzzing about talking about whether it's game related or not or in a games context That's something that's still up for debate And then htc or bough with their rig nowhere to be seen Not at the conference at all It it's not something everyone's clamoring to get get to this year, which is interesting Especially because we were expecting so much out of those conferences and and like you said that microsoft line During their briefing was was almost a throwaway. It's like, oh, you know, we've already announced all that stuff with oculus By the way, we're doing htc as well, but you know, let's move on What's weird about that in that conference and maybe you can speak to this Were you at the you were at the microsoft conference? I was at. Yes. Yeah, okay So when they brought that up and they said You know, they I think the word was partnership with valve and valve vr Um, a lot of people took that to mean Oh, well, uh, we're getting vr on on xbox xbox xbox and i've got the i've got the actual line scott It was we're working closely with valve to make windows 10 the best platform for vr gaming Okay, so that's their term. That's their terminology and that's a thing to say I suppose But did anyone in their right mind anywhere on this planet think that we wouldn't be able to run The vive or the oculus rift or any other pc focused Device on a windows machine like I understand it's 10 and I understand it's them saying well We want it to be the best it can be and that's a lot of pr talk, but that was like announcing that Uh, we wanted to announce today that every hp laser printer you buy is going to have drivers and windows Like of course it's gonna work. That's the platform you're releasing the freaking thing on I don't know why that annoyed me so much, but to this moment i'm still annoyed By the by the tone of that or at least the implication that there was a greater um You know special relationship happening there that that's not it's not them saying oh, we're gonna do special things with the Vive it's them saying it'll work on windows I think when when it was said, um in in the crowd there was sort of a lot of Looking to the person next to you going what what what did they just say did that what did I miss something? um And because it was Spat out so quickly and moved on It probably is about as relevant as what you're talking about scott. It's it's really just Yes, you can plug the htv htc vive revive whatever it is into a windows 10 bc and it'll work Um, but beyond that The partnership with oculus which was announced the week prior Uh, it seems to be a much more solid partnership the supplying of the um, the xbox controller or the windows controller What do you want to call it in the pack? that's going to come out into homes the streaming of games into the from xbox via windows 10 into the device um, I think that's You know, obviously a much tighter relationship between the two companies then Yeah, sure you can plug in the htc device and it's going to work. Well, that's the closest though that we can call a microsoft or an xbox vr initiative is that Because you're going to be able to stream xbox games to a pc which was already a known thing And that you could in theory wear an oculus rift headset And therefore and the truth is you could probably do this with five as well because it wouldn't it wouldn't change You know wouldn't matter which headset you're using but you'd watch I don't know. Halo you could look at halo five, which was not built for vr experience But you could still watch it through that headset get all sick and wish it was something else That that is not much of a vr initiative and I was I was disappointed with that because it I I don't know what I I don't exactly know what I expected because what hollow lens showed on stage was really really impressive It's still questionable how that's a game or how Minecraft is any more enhanced by using it more more like it just like this weird viewer But nonetheless that was super impressive and while that's not xbox related either at least that was like, okay Well, this is something they're doing here But the vr side it just felt like they didn't have anything. Do you think having been there? Do you think this is a sign of microsoft licking their connect wounds and saying We were so fast to spend so much money to as quickly as we could get into the motion control world Which now has gone flat. Nobody cares about Uh, do we really want to risk all that? Investment time and commitment To a product or to a vr product that we're not even sure vr is going to be a gaming Focus device or not. Is this them just playing it safe? Uh Potentially, I think connect did not get a single mention. There is not a single connect I've seen on the showroom floor not in a microsoft booth Not in any of the third party booths that I've walked past Microsoft did come out after the briefing and say we've got a bunch of connect titles in the pipeline It's not dead But you're right. They've spent so much money time they include they bundled it with the xbox one originally And they they've lost out big because of it. Uh, it's not a bad technology. It's just wasn't Marketed or titles weren't created that utilized it in a way that gamers were hoping it was going to be used And with vr now I think you're right. I think they probably do need to play it safe Rather than jumping headstrong into it because when we look at morpheus Which is what sony's done. They've jumped headstrong into vr. They've they've put a lot of eggs in this basket now The titles that have come out at dis e3 are okay, but they're not really Besides sort of like an e balkyrie, which is you're seeing on all of them There's nothing that's blowing anyone's mind and the hardware is probably the worst of the lot now because they they went so Far so quick to getting something in and to market without taking the steps that someone like oculus has done Or valve has done developing their own with a partnership hardware partnership with htc That all brings up to me the fact that you know combining that with the idea that You're you have to do workarounds to get a real feeling of resistance In fact rich from lovely cleveland wrote in pointing out that that's why ar might be more appealing to a company like microsoft Is that you can interact with real world objects easier The fact that You really can't do first person shooter very well yet in virtual reality. You can't move that quickly You can't swing and target that quickly without losing your lunch Even at 90 hertz even even probably at 120 hertz I wonder do you guys think it i'm not saying gaming won't be big on virtual reality But do you think that it is not the main reason virtual reality headsets will take off? And if so, what what will make it take off because we didn't see anything that made me think Oh, yeah, that's what virtual reality is for well I would I would lay down that that i'm with you on this question as as not just a question of hypotheticals But actually i'm genuinely in the in the camp of thinking it won't be the main application Or at least it won't be initially I think it's going to take a long time for developers to wrap their head around this thing and figure out A way to make it be to gaming what other things have been to gaming because it's not immediately obvious But what is obvious is exploring spaces you couldn't physically be in otherwise Being in a small ship in space and looking at the largest wet red dwarf and comparing it to planets near it And flying from one to another and and having um for lack of a better term museum experiences Where you get to observe a lot of things and places and people Uh that I think is going to be huge interactive chat rooms would maybe be part of that like The communication stuff like I mean, I think we're basically answering why facebook gives a crap about the arm Why they bought the thing in the first place? And I think that those are going to be the killer apps at least out of the gate later You'll see game experiences that will Maybe not blow our minds at first, but we'll eventually become okay. This is how we've gotten around it Just like we have touch screens just like we have controllers, you know, we figure these things out Raj, what's your what's your take on all that? Uh, I think you're right gaming in in terms of vr is a Pet project at the moment. It's the apple tv of the hardware lineup. It's Um, it's something we all want and we all we all expect is going to be amazing But we haven't found that that golden product that's really shown it off To consumers and made us all go. Oh my god. I have to get a vr headset. I have to get an oculus Um, what what oculus are doing at the moment? At the same time is they've they've launched the studio store. Sorry story studio division, which is creating these Miniature films that the the latest one is a little title called meet henry They've got like a vimeo trailer up and it's basically an interactive story told through the oculus rift of this This little guy henry a porcupine Who's trying to have a birthday party? But you know keeps popping all these balloons with his Spines and his spikes and everyone all he wants is a hug, but no one wants to hug him. Like it's this cute little um kid story and and in that Virtual reality environment you get to explore his world as the story is told and look around and interact and That storytelling system is an experience that we don't have today And that could be the product that that gets us across the line if these interactive Environment worlds of film It could be the the the next big thing for for vr and those experiences You still look like an idiot wearing these things That's one big thing that we can't get past either You see people at at the show at e3 at any of these events You've got a bunch of people sitting down in comfy chairs looking around with these huge refrigerators strapped to the to the head All the work they've done with economics has helped but these people Are still looking strange and they talked about it in one of the briefings Sitting down with your friends. I think was the morpheus one sitting down at home experience things with with your friends Four of you sitting next to each other on a couch all with morpheus is strapped to your face Like it's this stupid But I think we're at the point with virtual reality where we don't know what it's good for and it may be good for something We haven't invented yet And maybe that interactive storytelling sort of points the way which is not video game Because it's not quite as complex as we're used to with video game But not just movie either because it has an interactive element to it And it makes me think when we first had moving pictures They were called moving pictures because everybody thought of them as Photographs that moved and if you look at all the early versions of a film It was all stills with things moving through it right You know people walking out of a factory or or a horse, you know galloping by And it wasn't till later that people realized Oh, we can do something new now that we've never been able to do before and it's storytelling So it's similar to books, but it's also visual So it's similar to photographs and we created something new the movies, right? I think that may be the answer with virtual reality is we have to create a new Thing that we use it for I think that that's that's true It's it's so early. Everything's early days. I know everyone's chomping the bit They want these devices. They want them to be amazing, but Everything is being figured out and like you said that that That big here is it's gonna come in the future and with the evolution of the hardware as well There's still no tactile feedback in in any of these, you know, like I'm picking up a flower inside of VR I don't actually feel the flower and that's that's a disconnect that we We're having to get past in weird sort of ways Even things such as camera angles is something that game developers are working out now that A one-to-one relationship with you being the character isn't necessarily the best way of doing things A lot of these new titles coming out have you The main character in a third-person view which allows you to view and experience the environment whilst Relieving you of the emotion sickness of the main character's vision Because you're looking at them and focusing your your vision on them as they move throughout the world that you can experience in a 360 degree environment So things like this are Getting worked out and we'll build to the ultimate experience or ultimate application of the art in the years to come And unfortunately i'm going to have to have a hit and miss to get there And whether you want to adopt it early and be Potentially a part of the misses that's that's early adopters one-on-one Yeah, I think the stuff that would just kill it out of the gate is Scott walk enter this space that takes you to the the pyramids of giza and Sit in this little roll cage and rise to the top of one and hang out there and see what that view would be like And you know accurate recreations of parts of the world You'll never see undersea exploration that you would never be able to do on your own Things in space that you would never do in your lifetime Those kinds of applications are going to inspire generations of kids and adults To the point that they'll the art will get so much focus from just those less twitchy active experiences In just the feeling of exploration that's going to inspire a whole new kind of game thinking So so i'm with you games will come It's just going to start with this stuff and i'm just as excited about that stuff None of this disappoints me all that disappointed me was Sony barely even talking about morpheus. I know it's hard to demo on stage But still just barely making a mention having it be such low profile If we're really on to the verge of something big here go ahead and embrace the other applications You don't have to tell me that halo 5 is coming out for it Just tell me that it's rad and you can do all these other neat things and I think that's enough to sell the to sell it to people. That's what I want this fall and that's what I hope I get All right, uh real quickly our pick of the day comes from brian Couldn't agree more. He recommends security now twitch fantastic educational podcast with a large still relevant backlog Has all kinds of good info from how networking works to how operating system works along with current news and updates You heard all those security issues that we were talking about in the headlines today And it is a great resource. So check it out security now twit.tv slash s n and send your picks to feedback at daily tech news show dot com You can find my picks at daily tech news show dot com slash picks That's it for today. We got a few messages, but i'm gonna hold them for tomorrow Because they're not necessarily totally on fleek. Is that what we say? Sure. Am I using that right? I shouldn't do that. I shouldn't even try Thanks, raj de ute for joining us today writer at reckoner, uh in in australia Jet setter around the world What have you got to tell people about that they can go find out what you've been doing online? Uh, you can check out my twitter at raj de ute r-a-j-d-e-u-t Uh, if you have had not had enough e3 coverage and you want to check out more by all means check out my e3 briefings Roundup, which had me writing until 1 a.m. Last night at reckoner.com.au Um and tom your eyebrows are on fleek. That's that's how you might use that one. Okay. Thank you I'm I'm happy to to know that they are On on fleek scott johnson your whole body is on fleek. Hmm. It is on fleek I'd like to I'd like to remind people about something so today was the 14 year anniversary of my web comic my extra life my extra life com I'm really proud of it. I think 14 years is great I've got a kick starter for a collection book coming up soon But today Right now if people like that work and they want to go get some prints because I do a lot of prints based on my work Over at frog pants comm slash store where you can hit the store link on the my extra life comm page It will take you to a place where you can buy prints today only for 14 off All you got to do is use the code Uh el Well, wait, is it just yeah el 14 make sure I have the code, right? El 14 14 off all day today only and a big thanks to everybody for their support over the years for that little endeavor It's in a lot of ways led to everything else. I'm doing so Very excited about that and as always people find me on twitter at scott johnson And as always it was a pleasure to hang out with you guys today Uh, absolutely man, and glad to have you on board and and officially too I mentioned yesterday. We keep kind of going over the goal and back over the goal But we're we're over the goal today. So it's all it's all good. Thanks to our patrons If you are a patron of the show whether it's at patreon.com slash ace detector Just helping us out on paypal or just telling folks about it. Give yourself a pat on the back If you're not doing any of those things You can give yourself a pat on the back after you do one of those things You can find out all the things at daily tech news show dot com slash support Our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com and give skull 51259 daily That's five nine three two four five nine listen to the show live at alpha geek radio dot com And our website is daily tech news show dot com We will be back tomorrow with somebody who knows what on fleek means. Justin robert. Yeah, talk to you This show is part of the frog pants network. Get more at frog pants dot com Time and club hopes you have enjoyed this bro Thank you gentlemen. That was a great show. What should we call it? I agree I have ideas jenny's here I made it Oh boy, what's your ideas you came in like a wreck in my But with more clothing on Cold out there. Yep. Yep. All right, so nest drops the drop cam Uh nest drops the drop A paper white forever voyaging which I like just for its poetry beautiful um That was tvz gotten by the way microsoft's war of egos Uh, I reject a reality and substitute e3's And rhythm's gonna get you Which hey Oh, let's see That rhythm's gonna get you as pre-show, wasn't it? I don't know what did I say? I don't remember how that came out. No. No, that was in the show. Was it right at the beginning You're talking about filling in. Oh, right, right I am a fan of Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Oh, I didn't know I was just saying I called you the gloria estifon of tech. That's right. That did happen I uh, I like keeping up with the drones is Really good. Yeah, that's that's really good. That was uh, who did that? Fred Fred, but i'm looking for like a vr Right said fred are what is it good for? I like that be master made that one before the show even started Let's see. Good god y'all. I don't That was the those were the tops. Okay vr. What is it good for is the best? Uh, main discussion related title We got some really good other ones here. Do you guys have a preference to anyone tickle your boat to keep it Yeah, I like the drones this one. All right. I think that's I think we all agree keeping up with the drones is Connects directly to my irrational fear of kids destroying drones on my front yard It may not be irrational in a couple of years Hopefully that rocking chair for persons and then they're going to be accused of like, uh We're not racism necessarily but like areaism because well, we're not sending drones to oakland downtown oakland just yet But we'll start in uh, you know sonny vell somewhere Beautiful no crime area like that's all that's crime. I couldn't think of another one, but you know, I mean I think the only one that probably would probably be, uh What's the saucer leader? Yeah, just just not there's everyone there's rich so The drones the drones of marin. Oh belvedere belvedere. I'll be the one that's like no drones We're doing our rich people things. Can you think of can you imagine all the pranks people will pull That's the point man, even if it's just uh, even if it's simple stuff Like the drone lands drops a kid runs up real quick ties a Like a condom to the end of it full of jello or something and now off lies the drone Look at the jello What about the drone that automatically tps your house and then you can't reach it because it's all the way like on the roof Right because if we weren't for drones kids would never play pranks on anyone The new but no it would take him more time and then you could physically catch up with them Yeah, it's it's for it by the neck. It's fertile new ground is all I'm getting that true I mean if I was listen if I was 14 This sounds like I'm this sounds like the best time to be alive if you tell me there's drones perking around the house and by the way, raj With full understanding and compliments go whenever you need to if you did a crowd No, no problem. I think I Well, no the ice cream's gone. I'm good As to what you feel like I know what it's like when you're trying to prop yourself up No, no, I think I just have to make myself presentable for I got blizzard this afternoon at some point. I'm just trying to figure out when Oh, tell him we say hello. Yeah. Yeah Who's your guy? I don't know who's down there right now Jeremy, I think oh, um Scott gets paid in in uh, you know ferraris by To say nice things about we all know that golden transmog gear. That's right Uh, where are we? The australian contacts my regular one dan. Oh, I know dan. Yeah And he has hooked me up with Is it heroes of the storm stuff is a starker? Yeah heroes of the storm. They had a big launch in sydney Last week. I think on tuesday, but um, I was I couldn't go up there Tested with that game, but they they actually showed that was the best part of that pc conference yesterday. Was that reveal Can you explain like that that was just this is extra stuff. We're gonna have in the release. Yeah Yeah, so the way they're doing this is like a two or three month period And they're just calling it kind of the diablo period. So basically what they're doing is they're adding a bunch of new Diablo based heroes to heroes of the storm The big map they're releasing is that eternal conflict thing and that is Uh, it's a diablo themed Map which is one of the first themed maps of any of their franchises everything else That's the thing they showed off at the heroes of the storm youtube event that I was at So last night the heroes of the storm youtube event showed that Map and then they showed the the butchers the new character last night. Oh, and they released johanna the um Crusader just before that. So we were already playing her. So now we've last night's reveal was Uh that the next Hero will be leoric king leoric skeleton king And also the monk is in that video. So he's being worked on. He's the first healer out of the diablo characters and That's it. I think those are the main reveals But they're just and they said and there's a big theory that decker kane will be like the last character they do at the end Um, and then they move on and like do a starcraft theme for a while and they go back and do a wow theme for a while and Just part of their roll out. I really like what they're doing with it though. It makes me spend money Game is really good I see I've only played it. Oh, I played maybe four or five hours worth. I just I was just never grabbed me and I know this is different in many ways, but um, I'm struggling to To You're not alone. I went into it. I didn't I've never liked mobas. I went in thinking. Uh, oh another one I don't even care if it's blizzard. I don't like mobas and it didn't click with me for a while But the day it clicked It just turned into a whole new world for me and I'm having more fun here than I've had in probably years with multiplayer Yeah, I could I canada won't shut off about it. Let's use the total. Yeah, he he and I are We're making each other sick of each other. In fact, he's really fun to play with. He gets really mad at the other team But yeah, he's he's an evangelist for sure and my guess is You know, they're gonna I think they're gonna do well with it You know a lot of people thought it'd be hard to come in and be a third wheel in this In this uh moba space and I think they're doing it Oh, here is of a dome. That's it was huge. Yeah Yeah, it was really cool done Very excited about blizzcon. What that'll mean More blizzard stuff. Yeah, probably I can only imagine I doubt there'll be EA announcements, although Yeah I just want them I just wanted them to finish starcraft ghost I just I really wanted that game You're that guy. Yeah, that guy I'm the guy that buys a game cube Because uh, I wanted to play rogue squadron Like, oh, I want to play that game. Let's uh, I guess I have to buy the square thing That was actually worth it though. Rogue squadron and sxx tricky were the things that I played constantly on Oh, I didn't know that I love those games Yeah Tom the new thing we have in common Backwards compatibility jets So you can have your memories destroyed You know people say at certain some games still hold up It really depends on the game I played I had beyond the good and evil on the original xbox and I still had the disc and I it worked I didn't work on the xbox 360. So I bought the hd revampers. It's the same game just the The graphics have been scaled up. I still love it. It's still a good game Yep Good games never die. Raj. Tell me if I'm right about this the two trends I saw this year's e3 overall that weren't overt but people People may not notice it if they don't think about it, but lots and lots and lots of female protagonists That was number one. Yeah, definitely Yeah, look great and then number two games that feature yarn in it Yeah What a yarn A lot of yarns being told. It's only two that I can think of that's true I think there were three. I thought there was one from every Unravel Yoshi's woolly I don't know what the other one didn't sony have one Uh, hold on. They had something like that could have sworn they had one history of yarn Probably a knitting hero or something Um, that'd be great. You would have like two little knitting thingies and you would just Virtually knit yourself a sweater that you can't wear in real life Oh, do you knit? Yeah. Well, I played knit hero Not, you know, I don't know. On hot There is a game called knitting mania, but it's uh 2009 canadian iphone game But that's yeah, I thought there was a third but I I can't play I thought there was two I'll broken age had a bunch of knitting in it. Well, anyway I'm not finished again The common thread for me was new ip Everyone said the words we have new ip and then played either something that was 10 seconds long and made no sense whatsoever Or actually gave a proper demo. So Um It's good. You shouldn't I shouldn't complain about new ip, but it seemed like they were rushing They were all trying to save but we're not doing a sequel or not. It's not a prequel, right? They can never remember the name of the one with the girl and the dinosaurs robots Horizon horizon looks so that's the single thing in this entirety three that really blew my mind I had a close look yesterday and and To me it's Lara Croft rebooted with What was that original pierce through it's a heavenly sword Yeah, right. Yeah Is that gorilla? It's also gorilla games. I think the same company could have been. Yeah It's it looks um, it looks a lot better up close than what it did Graphic wise it looks really really tight up close This concept roger you'd love this as concept of like Mankind has died out our husks of old cities are just there as relics Why would I like this? Well, here's why because then They're like cavemen again they're starting over sort of and they just know these ancient stories of this civilization long gone but the animal life in the world appears to be all Like robots that were left after we all died out machines were left to Evolve naturally almost as wildlife without no controls or anything and so Weird animals and creatures all over the place including big dinosaur looking things are these big robotic machinery things All the animatronics from disneyland somehow Come to life and we'll see descendants of the animatronic abraham lincoln and george washington The only answer to animatronic abe lincoln and his and his dear wife chucky cheese It'll be just like feature from star track the motion picture where you need to communicate Communicate to them in some very simplified basic electrical language like like morse code or something Really, I I did get a closer look at last guardian as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that looks really good to me too. It's um Yeah, I don't know Well, do they have enough to be able to make a call at this point? um What they showed behind doors was another five minutes on the front of what they showed at the conference Which scares me? Because they didn't have that much to show in other words they take they only have 10 minutes Yeah, so is it And and it looks exactly like a date in 2009. Yeah, that's that's another thing that scares me Is this the same group that did um Shadow the classes. Yeah. Yep. Thank you guys. Yeah um It was just the one puzzle sort of area and and and that was it but um When it was jammed in between seeing horizon then you then you watch another 15 minutes of last guardian and then you watch 30 minutes Of uncharted 4 which is just Amazing. Yeah It kind of picks the middle one up a little bit. So Um, I'm not holding my breath for the last guardian Anymore. Yeah, it's hard to well. They've been a monop for so long. Who knows what the crap's going on? Yeah Um Now I'm meeting josh We're we're taking sure not josh mascara Nope, that's the diablo head. I don't know who that is Yeah, I thought you knew everyone. Well, I did too. I guess I'm not in their back pocket. It'll be all fine By the way, I've been meaning to tell you scott. I am very Pleased as a listener with the idea that the instance will formally Branch out into covering blizzard properties. Yeah, we've had actually we haven't had any negative reaction I think it may be just the right time. It felt right and everybody was feeling that way and I've always kind of wanted that And I know like you've gotten you've had, you know, the the memes of like, you know Stick to the topic and everything but I've always liked when you branched out Into the other it's very freeing. It's a very uh, like last week, especially Four of us. I just I just felt like this weird release on the show of like Oh, yeah, we can talk about hearthstone to our hearts content if we want because something big happened this week And if heroes is a big talk, we'll do that and And guess what the wow patch. Oh great like it it was always kind of a blizzard enthusiast show Anyway, I feel like I'm just now bowing to the powers that be it's just the way it's well when you started the show World of Warcraft was the predominant thing that blizzard did that was their game, you know, uh, and You're just following blizzard's own path, which is like world of warcraft still very big Not abandoning it But gotta gotta branch out into other things to keep growing. It's in a weird way I'm almost the show is mimicking what they are doing Yeah, and and I was talking to chris metton about that and He talks about how freeing that's been for those guys and it's weirdly freeing for me I don't feel nearly as not stifled. It's not the word. I just was all yeah, Joey and had to be careful and Now I don't feel that way and and I haven't had a single complaint. So I feel like maybe it was the right time to You know, like it wouldn't have worked a year ago or two years ago or something And um elas coming back next next month Everybody's all set for elars big come back all the time I get that every week. I swear I think your answer scott should always be yeah elars come back as next week every time you're asked A lot of people really miss that show. Yeah, I missed that show. I missed that show. It was great That was one of my first big podcast talks Wasn't really well Yeah, you know people Have a fond memory of it with the comic hitting 14 years and that means the show hitting about well officially the show hitting about 10 years Feeling pretty nostalgic about all of it One day though and old You'll get oh and we'll do some kind of one-off sometime just to make everybody happy and have them realize it It wasn't as good as they thought it was No, this doesn't this is like playing an old video game. It's like, uh I don't know What's a game? I can't think of one like everyone thinks banjo kazooie was the end all be all in the n64 It's not really that great It's way bizarre on the Commodore 64 There you go maze a game. It's just a one-off show called elar backwards compatible. Yeah, it's not bad How about uh shen mu? Because I think shim ever was so excited about the shen mu three kick starter and I went No, no that game. Good. That's a bad game You know what it's this is the thing people love shen mu really love it and people who like i'm sort of ambivalent I can see where people like it one of the things that really bug me about the game And this might just be a very like hardcore Like I can see a hardcore guy is really liking the game But like it's just really tedious to get to the fun part like to play through it. It's just really like it's work Like and it's not fun. Like I'm enjoying myself. It's like oh, I got to ask all these people the same Freakin question about the car and the kittens and then oh, I get to drive a forklift. Ooh Like if I wanted to live a dull life I wouldn't have to play a video game because my life is sort of dull already because you drive a forklift. Yeah Well, have you really I mean it's I mean that video games are about escapism. It's not about taking over someone else's You know mediocre life and it is it's a pretty mediocre You know, I don't know people I'll probably get I'll probably get uh pilloried for this but it's just The story's just very so-so. It's not at all That interesting I don't know well Angry amounts of lifting note. I'm out of the post Okay, thank you all for joining us. Stay tuned for sorting lasers interview with beth kato Following p.m. Magazines look at a monkey whose bananas for basketball