 about the stop hate for profit campaign, which I think on any measure was the most successful effort to enlist and engage the advertising community in driving change on hate speech and misinformation on Facebook and hopefully set a model for other platforms. So with that, I'm going to, if you don't mind, I'm going to just kind of have a conversation. I'll pretend it's you and me over cocktails if that's okay, Jessica, I'll ask the rest of you to stay on mute so we can kind of keep a spotlight on our award winner tonight. So to get started, Jessica, I know there was a lot of foundational work done before the stop hate for profit campaign came together through the coalition. It was by no means a cold start. So do you want to talk a little bit about the work that had been taking place up to that moment? Sure. Well, I think thank you for that, Lisa. It's very kind and we are meeting over drinks, although mine's club soda, because it's still a little early here on the West Coast, although we're approaching five, maybe I'll switch over soon. Five o'clock somewhere. You know, all of our individual organizations were working in our own capacities. I wouldn't say exactly siloed. There was a lot of community building that was happening in the change the terms coalition, which is 60 groups strong human and civil rights groups, women and people of color setting an agenda and, you know, a floor of expectations for how tech companies should protect us through the content moderation systems and other processes. There's just been incredible leadership by so many organizations, so many people. I dare not start naming everyone, but I do want to emphasize that women and people of color, the black community, the Latino community, like so many communities that are directly impacted by hate and racism on a daily basis isn't a new issue for many of our communities, but the way we are experiencing hate online, that was a new kind of experience of hate and racism. And so there was actually a really long on ramp of folks who were flagging the issue, trying to raise this with companies, trying to raise this in public policy circles and who were building a foundation of research and understanding about what was actually happening here. So I just want to acknowledge how foundational that work is, and I want to acknowledge this is often true, that folks who are most directly impacted by things are saying, please look over here, this is having an impact. And here we are at the election, and I don't want to say it's too late, but we could have been building infrastructure to address this problem a long time ago, and I think now it's clear that this issue is impacting everyone, that's impacting our election and beyond. So thank you for asking that question. I really do appreciate it, and I wish I could list out all the orgs that have been doing this work for a long time. It sounds like it's the embodiment of that old idea of the years and years of work that go behind the overnight success, right? There's always more to the story. You talked a little bit about the number of advertisers that were ultimately enlisted in the campaign and nonprofits ranging from small business to some of the largest and most influential advertisers literally on the planet. But I know there's more than the numbers in terms of what you've accomplished. So do you want to talk a little bit about sort of what new bar you've set or what you feel like you've accomplished that can now be the new foundation that can be built upon? Well, I just want to say it shouldn't take 1200 advertisers pulling their ads for a month for companies to do the right thing. That's unacceptable. It's a shame, and it's not going to be something that we can pull off over and over again or every month. And that's a shame because we frankly haven't seen, especially Facebook, but other tech platforms as well, rise to the occasion. But I do think that we had some firm success. The advertisers dropping that one really bad day on the stock market that woke everyone up to this. I have to give credit to the reporters as well. I think they were ready to cover this story in a way they hadn't been ready. We're all learning about Facebook's tricks, about how Facebook works the media. They're very effective. They're very strategic. And I think the reporters did a great job. And I spoke to folks on four or five continents about this. There was widespread worldwide interest in holding Facebook accountable. And that's exciting to me. We have different kind of levers available on an international regulatory scheme than we have here in the U.S. Stop, Hate for Profit really was only calling for company action. But as we move, as the public awareness increases about the role that tech companies and Facebook in particular are playing in our democracy and our personal well-being and safety, I think the public awareness about that role is incredibly important as we look at what kind of structural policy solutions or what kind of organizing and advocacy solutions are going to be most effective in the future. We're not just going to rehash old tactics. We're going to learn. We're going to grow. And we're going to figure out what it's going to take to hold these companies accountable. And I think to me the biggest success is that people were talking about this. No question. No question. It very much set the narrative. You talk with such and I've heard some of your colleagues on the coalition talk with such clarity about what the objectives were and how you went about it. But I know that working in coalitions, many of whom bring different histories and different interests and different mandates to the table can be very complicated, can be very complex. So what advice would you have for others who want to come together across the coalition and try to drive change working in the way that you did across organizations? I mean, I think campaign and coalition work is always messy and we're always just doing our best to be straightforward, transparent and to make sure that we're aligning on principles and values and then go out and try to punch hard together. I think that's what we did here. Nothing's ever perfect. But I think it's just rooted in the long term understanding of the challenges we're facing and the need to unite somewhat odd bedfellows to fight for a common purpose. It's funny how often that idea of when it's messy and complicated and hard, go back to values. Like like go back to the founding values or the founding purpose. It almost always works. What what have you learned from this and what will you bring forward into the work that you're doing that would shape your efforts going forward? Facebook is a tough bow. You know, it was really, yeah, it was really interesting to see how some of the other companies that are not as big as Facebook reacted to this news or maybe I should say not as powerful. We saw Twitter make notable changes to its policies. We saw Reddit make a pretty big shift in its content moderation policies. I'm not advertising for any of those platforms. I still think they have a lot of work to do. But it's interesting to me what the downward pressure looked like on the other companies. I think we need a broader strategy on Facebook in particular. I think we, you know, free press. I'll just speak for free press for just one moment. You know, we've we've been calling for a broader regulatory agenda that doesn't really include content moderation or speech, but really gets to the incentives for bad behavior. So we have a piece of privacy legislation that we think is incredibly important. We do think, you know, that we need to look at how people are getting their news and information in the way that some of the platforms have, you know, taken the ad revenue of journalism outlets and essentially made it harder for the sources that the journalists that often work to dispel disinformation to be able to sustain their business models. So we have a platform ad tax that we think we should really be thinking about in public policy. And, you know, we I think that we need to really take a good multi-pronged approach to attacking the harms that Facebook is causing. And part of that is going to be advocacy. You know, part of that is going to be organizing and part of it is going to need to be regulation. You know, I have a little bit of passion around that journalism piece, right? Kind of working on that as well. So can you talk a little bit about sort of what's next, whether it's current activities or even things that the coalition may be thinking about in this area? You know, I can't really speak to what's next right now. What I can say is this issue isn't going away for Facebook. You know, they've had PR crisis after PR crisis for a reason. You can't just keep putting a bandaid on, you know, on such a big problem. So we're not going away anytime soon. And we're not the only ones. There is, you know, an outpouring from Facebook employees, from industry, from other nonprofits and coalitions and campaigns, you know, across sectors, right? We hear from the environmental movement, we've heard from the reproductive justice movement, from the gun control movement. I mean, on and on how hate and disinformation on Facebook are impacting their ability to do their work and make progressive change. So we're not done yet. And neither are others. Okay. Jessica, we didn't chat about this before, but you referenced them increasing visibility we're seeing to the views inside Facebook and the difficulty reconciling perhaps the sensibilities of their employees with perhaps the desires of their audience. Do you think there's potential there to be part of the kind of forces for change? I believe change gets made in a lot of ways. And there's a lot of different levers. And I think advocacy and organizing is one of the most important ways. But I also think employees inside of companies, a lot of them are showing that they want to stand on the right side of history, that they're concerned about the state of things, and they're willing to risk it all. Great. To hold their, to hold the platforms accountable. And I'm excited about that. Me too. So in the 30 seconds that I still have, Jessica, thank you so much. It's an honor to be in your company. I again, tremendous respect for what the coalition has achieved to all of you. Thanks for being with us this evening. Again, I'm honored to be in your company and so proud to be part of the public knowledge community and the community doing great work on tech policy. It's very, very inspiring. And I'm very happy to be with all of you tonight. Thanks, Lisa. And thanks to Brenda Castillo, who's also here who helped run the campaign.