 I put our music on iTunes, first month 30,000, second month 30,000, every month 30,30,30, and like, you know, coming from somebody who was dead broke. I mean, like that, that was life changing us. And so that, that gave me the window that it's possible to do these things on your home. What up? What up? What up? I'm Brandman Sean. And I'm Corey. And we are back with no labels, necessary podcasts. You know, you can catch us every Tuesday, every Thursday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, anywhere you stream your podcast, talking about the music industry, content creator economy, and how can you get that cash? And speaking of cash, we got a very special guest today. What's going on everybody, man? JR McKee. How y'all doing out there? Well, I'm going to tell you a little bit about this guy before we get into it because he's probably not going to stunt on y'all himself. But, you know, JR McKee's been a part of building multiple labels, but also part of building multiple distribution companies. He is an owner of a distribution company called NPR today. Just a few weeks ago, he officially won a Grammy. Now, is that your first Grammy? It's my second. It's my second Grammy. Yeah, my second. Thank you. That's a different conversation. Different conversation. So before we even get deeper into one, I want to ask you about that Grammy experience, just so people can get what that actually looks like. I also want to talk about, it's a really special podcast, because this is our very first guest on the podcast. And I think it's perfect because we actually got a partnership that we're going into JR with that will give you more information about a little bit later in this podcast. But y'all know what we've done from a marketing side. Y'all are going to hear if y'all don't know about JR already. Y'all are going to hear what he's done in terms of helping breaking artists and his experience from record labels, distribution companies. And we're going to be able to give y'all a holistic perspective on how to apply it to yourself, whether you're an artist, manager, label owner, or aspiring to be multiple. We know we got the multi-hyphenance out there. So, starting off JR. When we get anywhere, I got to know that Grammy experience. You were telling us some stuff that I wasn't aware of already. What is that like? So, a couple weeks ago, we won a Grammy for Money Long hours and hours. The specific Grammy was Best R&B Performance. We were there, we were at the Grammys, me and the team. And honestly, we were nominated for three, Best New Artist, Money Long, Best R&B Performance for Money Long and Best R&B Song, I believe it was, for Money Long. And we won one out of the three. But honestly, I was just, I was surprised, shocked, you know, elated if I can use that word. Because in our category, Best R&B Performance that we won, there was Beyonce, Jasmine Sullivan, Mary J. Blige, and so you're up like, we're the newbies. You know what I mean? So, you're up against like the heavyweights. And so, you know, while I was hopeful, you know what I mean? I wouldn't have, I wasn't hopeful. I had some hope. But you know, I just didn't know. And so, in that moment when they said, and the Grammy goes to Money Long, man, bro, that's one of the most special moments I ever had. We got special in the first one? Yeah, because so the first one, so the first one we won for Rihanna, back in like, sheesh, man, probably like 2013. It was Rihanna's album. I can't even think of the name of it. I know the song, it was Love Song. It was Rihanna and Future Love Song. And so, the writer on that was a girl, she goes by the name Blue June. And so, you know, I was fortunate enough to come across her before anybody else had come across her. She was working, I don't know if you want the whole story, but I can give it to you. So she was working with a producer, she was living in Florida and had just moved to Atlanta. She was working there with a producer. And I was at the time I was working under Boo, who was VP of Def Jam. So he was working on Young Jesus album. He's working on Rihanna album. And so I found this writer through a producer. He was playing me, well, he sent me songs for a GZ album. And I'm like, man, the beast is okay, but this writer, like whoever the whoever this writer is, she special. I knew it like off the jump, like, and so I called him like, well, who was writing these hooks? And he's like, oh, it's this new girl. She just moved here from Florida. He was like, um, he told me her name blue. And I was like, man, I really want to meet this writer. So I met with her was listening to her. And I was like, man, you know what, you will be special for Rihanna. Like she was working on GZ stuff, because that's what I was working on at the time. But I was like, you'll be special for Rihanna. And so I was like, let's make some Rihanna songs. And so we just took it upon ourself. We made like three or four songs. I sent it to Boo, who was in LA with Rihanna at a time. And Boo called me. He's like, yo bro, fly her here now. He was like, get her here now. And so we get there. Like, first of all, I'm new to the industry at this point. This is my first job in the industry. I'm working with Boo. He hired me as an A&R. It's my first job. Blues new to the industry. This G had never even really been in the room with artists before. You know what I mean? She had just moved to Atlanta, like, I don't want to say the time because I don't know exact time, but she couldn't have been there more than three months. You know what I mean? And she came to Atlanta to chase her dreams. And so imagine, come to Atlanta to chase your dreams and in a three-month span, you're in the studio with Rihanna. So that's what happened. So we get in the studio, Boo calls me. He's not in LA anymore at this point. He calls me. He's like, yo, future want to do one with Rihanna? I'm finna send it to you. He's like, have Blue write the verses. So he sent it. Blue going, write the verses. Rihanna come in like a day or two later and hear the verses like, yep, that's it. Cut the verses. And then you go on about a year later. It's nominated for a Grammy. We win a Grammy. So that was my first one. That was my first one. Yeah. So when you come into the game, you come into the game. And for those who don't know, because also the names are so close, Blue and Boo. Yeah. So Boo is. All right. So Boo is Akon's brother. I met Boo at a video shoot. Shout out to Kay Clark casting. So Kay Clark is a legendary casting director in Atlanta. Kay used to invite me to video shoots. Obviously I'm not a model, but you know, I got cool with Kay and I just wanted to meet people. That was my way of networking. And so I got cool with Kay. So JR come to this shoot, come to that shoot. She invited me to a Chris Brown shoot and Boo was there. And so that's how I met Boo. He's Akon's brother. Boo, very big in the industry for A&R. Right now he currently manages Kanye West. And he has his own label deal at Columbia right now. I think he's actually like VP of Columbia or something right now at this point at this moment. But so that's Boo. And then Blue, her name is Blue June. Again, like I said, back then, you know, she had just moved and I heard her on some GZ hooks. But she went on. And so the Beyonce album, she blew on four Grammys this weekend for the Beyonce. Blue wrote 80% of this Renaissance album. And so, so Blue is one of the biggest writers in the game right now. I mean, you know, she took, she took the momentum and ran with her and her partner. She has a partner, Kony, they're a duo they write and produce. And so they did like 80% of that album. That's dope. Yeah. That's dope. How does that feel just having that eye for talent? Because I know y'all probably aren't necessarily working together in the same capacity, but just right, right. But we're still like super close. Like we started in this together. You know what I mean? So we're still super close. I mean, I don't know, bro. Like that's some some things are like skill and like you learn over time and some things is just God giving. And that's one of those God giving things that I don't take no credit for. I just excited that I got it and can use it and put it to good use. You know what I mean? So, so yeah. Well, now back to the Grammy specifically, you were telling us that on a business side, right? Yeah, when I necessarily get a Grammy, which also because we talk a lot to like the producer artists who win a Grammy, but we rarely get to hear about from the business person, the whole guy. Yeah. So so money long. So she signed a partnership with our distribution company back in May of 21. And we put our hours and hours in December, no November 19, but 21. By December 31, it was the number one song, Apple Music. We ended up being the number seven most streamed song in the world that year. And we went on to get nominated for three Grammys. The Grammy that she won, however, was best performance. And so she's the only performer on the song. So she's the only one that will win the physical Grammy because she she won best performance. So as a performer, she wins the physical, but everybody else involved, you can't get the certificate, which is, you know, a sheet of paper like a like, you know how you get your high school diploma? Yeah. Okay, it's very similar to that. You get that you get the certificate, you know, you want a Grammy. So he's like, you said performance specifically. So is there other type of grannies? Yeah. So, so, so you have like, it's so crazy. You have best song, which is everybody involved in the songs. Like, for instance, the writer, producer, engineer, but then you have best record, which is the label. Like it's like, so every different category has different standards of who all gets a physical Grammy. Got it. You know what I'm saying? So like, it's so funny because when I was there, I ran into Coney, a blues partner. Blue and Coney are the writing producer duo. And they had already won two. And Coney was like, yo, I really want this next one because we win a physical Grammy on this next one. The other two, we only get the certificate. And so she's like, I really want this next one because that's how we get a physical. Yeah. And so, and so yeah, it matters. So like, it matters what the category is that will determine who all gets an actual physical Grammy. Got you. Yeah. Got you. Now, bringing money long, obviously a prolific writer or something in the game, but then wanting to transition to the artist. To the artist. Right. Was there anything in particular that, you know, you helped with or just from the style? Like how do you support the artists and help them throughout their transition? So I got a call from a friend, Dray Davis. I've known Drake for many years. He runs a touring company, Blue Alley Touring. But he was working with Money Long prior to even she changed her name. So her name is Priscilla Renee. She's one of the top three writers, if not the number one writer of our generation. There's nobody with more platinum and multi-platinum records than Priscilla Renee. You know what I mean? So she's like a top three, if not number one writer of our generation. But she started as an artist. She started as on YouTube. When YouTube first started, I think in 2004, blew up on YouTube. She was the first viral artist on YouTube. She got signed to, I want to say capital, but I really don't know. She got signed to the label. You know what I mean? Back then. And so I think that was 2006. So more than 10 years ago, she was an artist. But at some point, you know, she got interested in writing. Somebody broached that to her like, hey, you should write. She has an interest in writing and became, you know, she, I think her first big single was Ariana record, ironically, California King bed. I think might have been her first. I'm not sure, like the whole catalog. But since then, there isn't a A-list artist that doesn't have a platinum record with Priscilla Renee. She has wrote for every single A-list artist there is and their hits, not songs that's sitting on the album. She wrote their hits. You know what I mean? So phenomenal writer. But again, she always wanted to be an artist first. And so I got called in when they said, hey, you know, Priscilla Renee, she's changed her name to Money Long. She wants to put out her first music, you know, okay, can you come be a part of this? And so it started off on a consulting basis. They sent me the first EP. And that is a long story. I don't know if y'all want to hear it. Hey, man. Let's hear it. Okay. Yeah. We will get into some some regular times. Yeah. Things but I want to set the tone though. Yeah. So they sent me the first EP. Again, she hadn't put anything out yet under Money Long. And the thing is when you when you change your name, you start from scratch, like your Spotify account, zero monthly listeners, you know what I mean? Your Apple is you're starting from zero. You know what I mean? And so this first EP was ready. I listened to it. I thought it was really good, but I didn't think it was for her. You know what I mean? Like she's used to writing Ariana Grande, his things of that nature. And that's what this EP sounded like. It sounded like these are the records for Ariana. Can you stop and talk about that for a second? Because I always say that's one of the problems that a lot of song writers and people will attend. Go to them. It's like, you don't know who you are yet. Right. And that was that was my issue with the first EP. I was like, man, this really sounds a lot like it was like this is the thing. They were hit records. Of course. They were fire records, but it wasn't you're a black female R&B artist. This isn't indicative of that. This isn't what that would sound like. You know what I mean? And so we put out the first EP on a consulting basis. And at that point, you know, I started my distribution company, NPR Global. And I said, I was like, man, I really believe in you. I would love to like do a situation with you. She had went to all the labels. Of course, she has ties to every single label. She's writing all the hits and they couldn't work out a deal. So she didn't go with any of the majors. And so I was like, well, hey, this is an opportunity for me. Like I believe in you, Greg. You like, let's let's work out something where you get to keep your masters. You get a majority of the revenue. I just get a minority share of the revenue. And we, you know, we work together. We build a partnership. So that's what we did. And the first thing I had to do was I had to go in and work on the music. And again, keep in mind, not that she needed help writing songs. She's the greatest writer. You know what I mean? But when you're when you're an artist, you have to know who you're talking to. You know what I mean? And so I explained to her, I'm like, you know, if we want this to work, number one, we're black, we can't skip over black people. We can't come out with Ariana Grande type hits. Like you have to start with the culture. I was like, let's let me let me explain to you how you write to these young black girls as best I can. I'm not a young black girl. But I'll say you're about to get the heat coming as best I can. You know what I mean? I'm not a young black girl, but I understand the music that resonates with our culture. You know what I mean? And so we just went through that process. And so when you hear EP2, EP3, you hear the drastic difference of now we're speaking directly to our people. You know what I mean? And like, and so that's what we went there and did. Well, why do why do you? Well, no, not why do you feel like that? But why did she choose R&B specifically? Obviously, you know, you know, it's crazy. But she is a talent to say, Hey, I want to. Yeah, she really loves country music. And so do I. Actually, I really love country music, too. California King bed is a country song. Yeah, it is. It is exactly. And so she does have country projects ready. You know what I mean? But her manager from from what I've been told by her, her manager convinced her like R&B is the way to go. You know what I mean? That's our manager. What's the strategy from that? So that's just a manager said that. What do you think? I mean, I just think you have to understand where you can be successful. And not to say that she couldn't be so she could probably be the biggest country artist all time. You know what I mean? But I think the strategy was this is where we'll be successful. You know what I mean? This is this is where we start this thing off because you still can get a money loan country record. No problem, right? But they wanted to do R&B. I wanted to make sure we were talking to the right people. And so we went in the studio, made mad life. Bro, I loved working with her in the studio. You know what I mean? I started my career as a label owner, but I learned later that I am a great composer. I'm a great producer. I'm a great songwriter. You know what I mean? I learned this from being in the studio with my artists and like the talent just blowed. And so I was able to do that with the greatest songwriter of my generation. So I mean, I love that experience. And so we wrote records together. We talked about what we should be talking about. You know what I mean? Yeah, we talked about what we should be talking about. And that's what you get out of those projects. EP2 and EP3 is like those conversations and those moments in the studio. And it works. You know what I mean? The first record we really collaborated on was called Just Beginning. And that was her first breakout record that set up hours and hours. And so Just Beginning was a record where she had the beat and she sent it to me. And I was just like, man, this reminds me like R. Kelly trapped in a closet. And I was like, man, I was just like, yo, what's like the most disrespectful shit that you think? But you don't say it. At least you don't say it out loud. You may say it to your girlfriends, but you don't say it elsewhere. I'm like, I want to hear what you would tell your girlfriends. I want to hear that disrespectful shit that you would tell them. And that's how Just Beginning came about. And we got in there, man. It was an amazing record. And so it actually went viral. And then Rihanna got wind of it. Rihanna responded to some things about it. And we used that momentum to put out the EP. And on the EP was hours and hours. Yeah. Yeah, man. That was my song when it came out, man. I really rocked. I actually, I don't know what to say this. You know what I was saying? I remember when I told you how I misread the title forever. All he thought was hers and hers. But I think that actually helped us a lot too. Right. It actually did help us. I saw early on, I was there when the first pop happened, like just watching on TikTok. Yeah. And I forgot her name, but it was a girl, her girlfriend. Breezy. She was like the girl from the Empire or something like that. Yeah, Breezy. That's my only. I saw them too. So, okay, it's two women at a date indeed. Yeah. It's all, I see you thought it was hers and hers. Right. So, initially, the trend was more led by females because of that reason, because they thought it was hers and hers. You know what I mean? I thought the only one. Yeah. So, initially, it was very helped. But even prior to that song being out, and this is why I tell people, this is why the data is just paying decision into the details is so important. Go back to five minutes ago when I said I want to make music for young black females. That's who I thought we were making music for. That's what our goal was, but our initial fan base, out of the LBGTQ community, the initial fan base was that. That's who that music resonated with. And so, yeah, we came in with our intentions, but once we saw who was resonated with, we doubled down on it. Okay. If this is who our fans are, let's support them and how they're supporting us. And so, that's what it was. But that's not why she titled it the way that she did, but it just ended up working out in our favor. I'm just glad to hear I'm not the only one. Yeah, no. Honestly, it was like three months before I was like, know what? Why did they keep on saying hours and hours? You know what? Yeah, that ended up working out in our favor, man. So, seeing that, I mean, I love that, though, right? You like y'all have a strategy. You can come with that, but do you still pay attention to the data? It wasn't completely off, right? Yeah. Well, we're still young black individuals. It was the LBGTQ versus, you know, the females that I thought it would have been. Right. That was just the initial spark, because you weren't necessarily wrong when it actually took off. It still did resonate with those people. Oh, it started within a niche, within a niche. Exactly. Exactly. It's really dope to see that. So what happens when you see it start to take off like just being in exec mode? So we put the project out as an EP on November 19th. So it was two, three early signals. So the first early signal is obviously I talked to all of the DSPs, Apple, Spotify, etc. You know, all of them had the opportunity to hear the project before it came out. We did in person and Zoom calls with all of them. They heard the full project. We were going out the gate with time machine as the focus single, like, okay, all of the DSPs, this is the song we want you guys to playlist the day the project comes out. So number one, the project came out hours and hours is a song playlist everywhere. And so I'm like, okay, the editorial really loves this song. That was one sign. The other sign was our content person Jasmine. She's our head of content. She was posting hours and hours before it came out. The numbers it was getting was way higher than the other numbers we were seeing. So she signaled it. She said, Hey, this song might be special. You know what I mean? And then the third and final signal was after it came out, you know, Spotify is a day behind Apple music is two days behind on data. So Sunday, I looked at it that I was able to see Apple music data from Friday. Sunday, when the song comes out, you usually it starts at a peak and goes down. Hours and hours started and went up. That's not normal. You know what I mean? That's that's not normal at all. So on Sunday, I made the caucus time machine video, I think, or one of the videos is supposed to come out Monday. So on Sunday, I said, No, we're gonna put our hours and hours video because we had the videos shot for all of them already. You know what I mean? And so Sunday, I saw that I said, OK, tomorrow we're putting our hours and hours instead of whatever we was going to put out. So that was the next thing. Then the next thing that happened was Breezy. It's actually Breezy's girlfriend made a video. Breezy didn't make it, but it was Breezy's girlfriend. Breezy's girlfriend made the video to it of them just their love moments, right? You know what I mean? And I saw that and I said, man, this could be a trend. And so I reached out to literally every significant couple I knew. Tony Romiti and her boyfriend at the time, I think they're married now. What's his name? Willie Taylor. I reached out to Willie Taylor. I reached out to Rotemi. Everybody I knew that had influence that had a significant other. I reached out to all of them. And I would say like 80 percent of them made the videos. I was like, Hey, this song is about to blow up. Can you take this and make one of these yourself? And so that was the next big step. And then the ones who said no or just didn't respond, Jasmine made it. So Jasmine, go find videos of them on the internet, put it together and we made it and we put it out. And so we put it out or did y'all also send them to? We sent it to them and if they didn't put it out, we put it out. So for example, Little Dirt, I sent it to Dirt's people. I'm like, yo, can he please post it? I beg for about a week. They never posted it, right? So I said, okay, fuck, we hit academics, academics posted. We'll pay you. Pay academics to post it and then Little Dirt responded. So academics posted original, then he posted when Little Dirt responded. And so we got two for one. Another example, we made Jacob Latimore's. So I met Jacob Latimore and so he was dating Soraya. And so Jasmine made a video of them. And so because I managed him, I just posted on his account. I want to say I asked him, but I don't even know if I asked him. But I'm gonna say that I asked him. So I posted on his account. But the thing about Jacob was I knew every couple video that comes out of him, Shea Room posted it every single time. And so sure enough, I posted it in my mind. I'm like, Shea Room, please, please. Two hours later, Shea Room posted it. And so literally, Shea Room probably posted hours and hours between 30 and 40 times for free every single time. We never once paid Shea Room. But because significant couples were doing it, they just kept posting it, kept posting it. You know what I mean? And so we basically took over the culture for about, for about, what, three to four months? A good, yeah, three, four months. Was that the first time that you had something like that happen where you saw the Shea Room like naturally picking stuff up? Because we had done that. Yes. So some of the clients that we were working with, specifically, I know, Macy Gray, they were picking her up like crazy. Yeah. Wow. Around the LeBron. I don't know if you saw like she's saying this, Starvangle Bender and LeBron had a reaction. But apparently he was reacting to like Steph Curry getting booed. But they thought... He was reacting to the song. To the song, you know, whatever, whatever. Who knows what's actually true? You know, Brian, you can confirm or not. But, you know, like we made a lot of videos using that moment and Shea Room was picking it up. And I don't think a lot of people understand that you truly can't. Of course, there's more with influential people. Yeah. But you can literally just have that stuff happen for free. Yeah, it definitely happens because as a media platform, you know, your job is to share the most viral content. Like you're sharing the stuff that you feel like people need to see or people want to see, right? And so, you know, I don't have a problem paying for. I pay for a lot of posts, but I'm fortunate when they post for free. Like, I love it. I'm like, okay, when they post for free, that just lets me know I'm doing a good job. Right. You know what I mean? Like leaning into it somehow? Well, when they post, it's done. Like that's what you want. You want them to post it. But, you know, it's just when you get the free ones, it's just like the dirt and when academics repost the dirt. I'm like, man, like we really like move in the culture. You know what I mean? That's just how I felt about it. I'm like, yo, this shit is crazy. Like we really move in the culture with this. And so, yeah, no, it's always great when they post for free. It's a possibility, but, you know, I would just tell people, I don't wait for that. Like I pay, you know what I mean? Yeah, I pay for plenty of posts. Right. So, I like what you said there, just from a marketer side of things, right? Because that is kind of what it feels like. You've made things move multiple times before. You ain't got successful results without that extra impact in people posting things. Yeah. But then when shit's moving like that, you do feel like, yo, this is like, you know, a moment of impact is made. And like you said, y'all really did take over the culture for about three, four months. That was a song, man. I feel like, especially for R&B, I don't even think it's just a feeling. I think objectively, we don't have that many moments where there's a song like that takes over the culture and from that type of energy too. It was a positive energy versus the negative. It was very positive, man. It was great. I mean, first of all, a shout out to her for the song itself. You know what I mean? From what I remember, that was just something she wrote in her home, like just messing around, you know what I mean? Because normally, she's in the studio making magic. But I think with that one, she said she was like washing dishes or something. She just heard it beat on YouTube, and it came to her. So I mean, that's a magical thing, you know what I mean? To turn to that's a multi-platinum record, Grammy-winning record. It feels more like home than the studio too, though. The energy of the record. Did she just walk around the house streaming beats on YouTube? I don't know, man. I don't know. But that shows the hunger it takes. Like I said, you're talking about one of the greatest writers of our generation who still just has that hunger for it, you know what I mean? So that shows like, I think it shows passion, but it also shows hunger. Like she really wanted this shit. Like she really wanted to have her stamp versus, you know, writing for other people and helping them get their stamps. You know what I mean? And so, you know, she was so hungry for it. She had home listening to YouTube. Like I'm going to do what it takes to find this record that's going to take me up through there. You know what I mean? So shout out to her, man. A Grammy, bro. That's what's so crazy about it is we're independent. We're not tied to any label situation. Like we did all of that. We went number one on Remy Radio, number one on Urban Radio, number seven most dream song in the world. At one point, we were number one on Apple. We were number one on Spotify. I mean, I think we made this number one on TikTok. Bro, it's just so many number one, so many without anybody's help. It was literally just us hiring the right teams, like hiring the right radio team, hiring the right UK team. We hired an Australia team. I mean, we hired so many different teams to make sure this world was recognized globally. Yeah. I mean, this record was recognized globally, man. And so, but that to culminate to a Grammy is like, yo, anything is possible. That's crazy. You know what? I'm glad you said the independent thing. They just sparked in my head. I remember there was a situation Corey and I had earlier last year with things were going on with the artists, and we were considering possibly like signing or something. And I actually hit you up just to see what you thought about the situations you were one of the main people I thought of and ask you about your situations. You said, because I was thinking about the JV that was the main thing. And I was asking you about your JVs and you're like, yeah, I done JVs. I done these things. But it's like, honestly, I don't even need a label anymore. Right. Whatever. And I would like you to kind of talk about why, what that perspective is. And yeah, let's just start that like seeing going through those situations and getting to the point. I don't need a label. Right. I mean, I've been what's where we're on year 18. So I'm like, I'm a full grown career. It's my 18th year of my career. You know, I've done it all. I started off independent. I broke my first artist independently. And I'm very fortunate that that artist didn't get signed because I wouldn't know what it's like to do your own thing. You know what I mean? I was this young kid out of Mississippi. And we were the number two largest artists on my space at the time. And none of the labels would sign us, but we weren't connected to any, any veteran. You know what I mean? Social work has signed because he was connected to Collie Park. You know what I mean? But we were just us. Like we didn't have any any industry better. So like what they called us up to me is this is this young country dude from Mississippi and his young country artists, they not been to give us a deal. But that was like the biggest blessing because it forced me to figure out, you know, how do I do this on my own? And I didn't even notice until Gazi told me. Gazi came to me and he was like, man, you're the first person to ever put a mixtape on iTunes. And I didn't know this at the time. But I found a company called tune court, because I was like, I saw a beer commercial actually funny as a boy wise commercial. And it was two brothers and one of them did the marketing and one of them did the brewing. And so the commercial was like, you can brew it, but can you sell it? And I'm sitting there and I'm like, damn, we making this music, but we not selling it. And so I figured out how just before Google. So I still don't know how I figured out, but I figured out, okay, there's this company tune court, and I can put my music on iTunes at the time. The only way I knew to give music to for sale was be with a label. You know what I mean? And so I put it on music on iTunes. First month, we made $30,000. You know what I mean? And I'm just like artist. His name is The Joker. Oh, yeah. The Joker. Yeah. Yeah, same as the Joker. So I put our music on iTunes. First month, $30,000. Second month, $30,000. Every month, $30,000, $30,000. And like, you know, coming from somebody who was dead broke. Like that was life changing. So that gave me the window that it's possible to do these things on your own. You know what I mean? And so my next artist that I blew up was K-Camp. And in that situation, I did a JV. We're in the scope. But at the time when I did the JV, we were the biggest independent artists in the country. We had two songs on top on radio, top 30. We had Cutter Off and Money Baby, both in the top 30 radio, which is radio at that time was completely major driven. You don't be independent and be up on radio like that. Especially at that time. You know what I mean? Back then, that was like 14, like 2013, 14. So like we had two. And so I had taken him, if I knew what I knew now, I wouldn't have did the deal then. Because we already bigger than the artist on your label. So what do I even need? But I didn't know that back then. So I did the JV. And now, you know, we getting pennies off of that. Like we recouped and everything. We did six platinum records back to back. You know what I mean? So we recouped all of that. And so we get paid off that, you know what I mean? Twice a year, which I still think is BS. You know what I mean? Because when you were the majoring, they pay you two times a year and they're always late. I've never got paid on time. You know what I mean? And so now I'm getting the coins, the pennies off of that deal when we could have been walking away with millions had we just stayed independent. You know what I mean? That's the trick of it is they're stealing your wealth. You know what I mean? They're making you rich. They're getting wealthy. And so that's what I learned in that process. You know what I mean? So do you think those situations, like you said, you knew what you knew now. You wouldn't have done it. But from a business executive side, do you think someone needs to go that route to learn or like young JR started? How would you do it? I did learn from those experiences. But the main thing anybody that gets in the building will learn is that you already had it. That's the main thing you'll learn. You got in the building. Yeah, that's exactly. That's how you got in the building. The main thing you'll learn from going to a major is, damn, I already had it. I already had it. You know what I mean? So that's the main thing you'll learn. But I would say now it's so different and so much better because we're not dependent on stores anymore. You know what I mean? Back then in the K-Camp days, it's like we were still selling CDs, like Apple didn't start into 2015. So I'm talking 2013 and 2014 when we were hot. So we're still selling CDs. We have iTunes too, you know what I mean? But for the most part, people are buying their music out the stores, you know what I mean? But now we're on DSPs and so DSPs literally have what I call real estate for independent artists. So like this is where we put independent art. We have to put this many independent artists. So there's space for you without being signed anybody. And if you know a lot of these people in the DSPs, they're champions of independent artists. You know what I mean? They're like us three sitting right here, young black gentlemen, right? Our counterparts are the people that are inside of these buildings. You know what I mean? So if you go work at Spotify, what's going to be your mindset? I'm going to help everybody. And that's exactly the mindset of the people that's working inside of Spotify. You know what I mean? So the label is really unnecessary when the store now is somebody like you that's willing to help me. You know what I mean? So I'm giving you my masters just to go and talk to somebody that looked like me when I could have kept all that and been talking. Listen, Carl Cherry is on Twitter, Instagram, you know what I mean? Carl Cherry is the head of Spotify Urban. You got people like Walter Tucker at Apple. He's all over Clubhouse. He's all over Instagram. The people who are in position to help you are not hidden away. They're not gatekeepers. They're public, you know what I mean? And they're constantly on a daily basis, a laser at Spotify. They're on a daily basis, tweeting, sending me new music. You know what I mean? So like your access to them is wide open. And so in order to sell music, you have to be in the stores. The major labels biggest hole was they control the stores and they control the media. You have DSPs and social media. So now why would I assign to you? You don't control social media. You don't control the DSPs. So therefore, you're just a middle man, you know, and again, there are great people inside of labels. I'm not, I don't want to talk completely down, but we're talking from a business structure and a wealth mindset. It's unnecessary. You know what I mean? It's just an unnecessary service at this point. Now you still need experts, but what I've been telling people is there are so many experts out here that have started their own individual situations. You know what I mean? Joey IE left Interscope now has his own thing. What's my guy that just left Capital now has his own thing? I can't think of his name, but Ray Daniels left Warner now has like all of the top executives are assortors, you know, branching out and starting their own things and will give you a way better structure than it has you signed to the major. So like you have these different experts that are around that can help keep your wealth in your pocket, but still provide you the expertise like myself. You know what I mean? I still can provide you the expertise while helping you keep your wealth. And so for me, it's like if you get to that level where you need those experts on your team, they're out there now without having to give away everything. Beautiful. Beautiful, man. Well, with that, just a reminder, in the bio of if you're watching on YouTube, we're going to have a link to give you an idea of what we're getting into together. As I said, the beginning of this podcast, we have a really dope partnership. So if you go to braminnetwork.com slash shared information, because we're bringing our minds together to give you some of the most valuable content out here, because there's a lot of people who are doing videos and talking about things with very few who are actually doing it. Y'all heard this entire podcast J.R. is more than doing it. And y'all already know what we do. We pride ourselves on being people who actually do it. And we want to bring y'all more people just like J.R. So go to braminnetwork.com slash shared information. If you listen to my podcast, but of course on YouTube, the link will be in the description. Now, with that being said, Jacory, when we get into the second part, bro, I'm gonna need you to, I know you have one mic today. So I know, you know what I mean? You know people will be making comments and stuff like, you know how these polls are. But like with that being said, want to get into one of the first topics today, because you know, we always have to get into some of these and do it. Marketing artist versus breaking a song versus breaking an artist. And I think that people don't understand that just marketing isn't enough, right? There is a skill set, a way of looking at the marketing activities, like someone will learn how to run ads and think, oh, okay, I'm supposed to break off of just doing this or someone will learn how to do, you know, some influencer campaigns and think that's enough. So want to touch on everybody's perspective, but what does it look like to market an artist versus breaking a song? But why isn't breaking a song the same as breaking an artist? What's the difference there? So J.R. wants you to start it up and Jacory, you want to hear your thoughts too. And real quick, can you start about defining what you feel like breaking? Because we have that question. Okay. What is breaking? All right. So breaking a song, I would feel like for a song to be broke, I mean, for me, and I don't know if this is like a level thing, but for me, breaking a song is, you know, the song going, you know, being certified in some way, so a gold or a platinum single, that would be breaking a song from ground zero. Like let's just say it's a brand new artist. Let's just say breaking them into the game period where people are paying attention to how many streams have you had to put streams on it? So breaking, but that's the difference. I guess that's the difference between breaking a song and an artist, right? So breaking an artist, I feel like there's a few stages. There is breaking, then there is immersion, and then there is a story I'm looking for established, right? And then after that, you go into like superstar. You know what I mean? So breaking, I would feel like is anything under a million month list on Spotify? I feel like anybody in that category is, let's go as low as a quarter million to a million. Anybody in that category, they're on a verge of breaking. You know what I mean? Then I would jump up to like, I would say two and a half million to five million is emerging. You know what I mean? And then I think once you get into seven or more, you're an established artist. You know what I mean? Like you're an established artist, and then superstar is going to be 15 plus, 15 million plus monthly listeners. It's a superstar. All right. So with that being said, what about for an individual song? So again, for an individual song, it has to be certified. You know what I mean? It has to be like, you know, go plus. You know what I mean? For an individual song to break, like this song has been broken. It has to be certified. What does it take in terms of amount of streams? So US, right? So like every country, and I know I say that word, very country, but every country, every country, you know, the streams in that country count for certification. So like, for example, if I have 10 million streams in US and 10 million in UK, I can't, I don't have 20 million streams counted towards certification. I have 10 million in US and I have 10 million in UK. It's like you have to get 75 million, more around 80 million streams in the US to be US certified gold. You know what I mean? It's about 75 to 80 somewhere in that mark. And then 150 to 155 is Platinum. 155 million is Platinum. You know what I mean? But they have to be US based. Well, you know that because I remember I was talking to some exactly whatever and they were showing us a song that was doing like, I don't know, 800,000 streams a day or whatever. It was going crazy for a good minute, but it wasn't certified anything because it was like worldwide. That was the first time that I found out that, you know, it has to be in that specific place. Right. Yeah. And so like you would see shit. Like I got some plaques that say like Platinum and then at the bottom it says Platinum and Canada, Platinum and you know what I mean? And even for me, I was like, why does it say that? So I got in plaques and didn't know what it meant. So yeah. So I feel you. Yeah. So I mean, does it even affect like where you start to try to break artists that you're working with from ground zero? Like are you keeping are you keeping that in mind when you're when you're starting to build them out? No, I mean, luckily for me, like, you know, I think I have a specialty in breaking artists. Like majority of labels or executives period don't break artists. You know what I mean? They can amplify the artist for sure. But you know, nine times out of 10 every executive you ever met doesn't break artists. Like I'm fortunate I've broken almost almost 10 artists. You know what I mean? In my career. So but yeah, I think breaking the artists you're starting from scratch is totally fine. Especially in a streaming era, when it's so much quicker because of like a TikTok. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so I have no problem starting from scratch. If I truly, truly believe like in this talent, but I love when I don't like Justin Scott, obviously I didn't start from scratch there. You know what I mean? And so Justin Scott, we just took her record number one on TikTok. It's going to be platinum here soon. At this very moment, we're streaming just under three million streams a day on it. But they came to us and it was already moving. It was like 400,000 streams a day when they came to us. And so, you know, I love when stuff comes with momentum and all we have to do is like, like really tone in on our expertise and like take it all away. You know what I mean? So stuff like that is dope too. So scratch or jumping on momentum. Either way, I'm totally happy with it. Yeah. I mean, and so I think that's a good point you brought up too. You talk about taking advantage of the momentum. You had the Justin Scott situation that happened. Was that right before the money loss situation? No, that just happened. That was so they came to us early, early December. And so we got a deal done. I want to say like December 9th, and went directly to work. And by the first week of January, we were the number one song on TikTok. Gotcha. So what's your first move when you see that happen? Something like that happened. You got to source it, right? So like this goes for any artist. When you see your streams moving, the first thing, like if you see that first bump in the streams, the first thing you had to do is find out where is this coming from? Because if I can find where it comes from, that's then I can say, how do I repeat it? Yeah. Because that's what a trend is, right? A trend is something getting repeated over and over and over again. So when they came to us, the first thing we had to figure out is where is this coming from? Why is this happening so that we can amplify it so that we can repeat it? So that was step one. Okay. Yeah. So what is the move after that? Because I know like when we're working on our clients and we see that type of thing happen, the first thing we try to figure out is like, how can we bring this into the real world, right? Having this moment on TikTok or Instagram or whatever was like, how can we hurry up and do something to make this at least look and feel tangible to the audience outside. So like, do you have like a go to move or go to direction? Well, when you see that online momentum happening? I mean, so I think step one is figured out where it's coming from and repeating it like basically more or less amplifying the trend. Yeah. But then step two is making sure the culture knows it exists. Because things can be completely out of the culture. You have songs that, at least in my case, because I'm black and I deal with black culture, but you have songs that are, you know, multi-multi-platum that we have never heard. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so for me, dealing with Justine Scott, who was a black artist, is like, how do I make sure we know this exists? Yeah. You know what I mean? So that was step two is like making sure the culture knew it existed. It was really step two. And then, you know, simultaneously getting Justine to lean in, you know what I mean? Because the song came out in 2014. So, you know, it's not a layup to get an artist to promote the song for 2014. Yeah. They're going to be like, oh, this is old. And not to say that she did this, but I'm just saying these are some of the conversations that have to be had. It's like, hey, I know this is from 2014, but this could really be a big moment in your career. This could really break things open. So having those type of conversations and getting her to lean in where she was great about, you know, just finding the right content because Justine isn't a new artist. She has a brand to protect. And so finding the right style of content to shoot with her that aligns with her brand. It was a few, you know, just nuances that had to be worked out. And then, of course, tapping in with the DSPs, tapping in with TikTok, and just making sure everybody was on the same page of where this is happening. Sound on was TikTok's distribution company was hugely instrumental in this. Vivian over at Sound on Vivian was freaking rockstar with this. So like, she made so many great things happen. And so just tapping in with the networking, just, you know, making sure everybody's aware and just going. It's like, it's like going to war for about a 60 day period. You know what I mean? Because that's another thing most folks don't know. Like, they'll come to me when the trend is over. And I'm like, bro, you got a window. You got a window. Let's talk about that window, man. Why is that? Because you've been talking a lot about moments in this thing. Like, truly, why is it so important to catch it in that window? You have to because, again, trend, another reason it's called a trend because it ends. You know what I mean? It's a trend for the moment. And so most trends are going to run about 45 to 60 days. You know what I mean? That's the lifespan of a trend. And in that moment, you have the opportunity to turn that into a hit record. You know what I mean? The thing about it is, like I tell people, there are trends, there are probably, but I don't know, 50,000 trends going on right now on Tiktok, right? But out of that, how do you take that 50,000 and turn the one you're working on into the number one? You know what I mean? And so I think people think it's easy and it's not. It's not. Like, with hours and hours, just because it's a trend doesn't make it a number one record. Justine Scott Collage, just because it's a trend doesn't make it a number one record. That takes expertise. That takes real know-how. It takes real money. It takes real networking. And so that's what we've been able to do is we've been able to take those, out of those 50,000 trends, we've been able to take our trend and make it number one multiple times. You know what I mean? And so if you come to me, and this has happened, DJ Chos, he came to me when the trend was over. And actually, he came to me when it was going, but he didn't want to pay my fee. We put that out there. He didn't want to pay my fee. I was like, bro, this is what I charge. You know what I mean? He didn't want to pay. So then when it was dying, he came like, bro, I need you. I was like, well, you need to be back then. But I was like, I think I can help now. And forging it for him and me, because I was unsure too. I was like, man, maybe we can turn this around. And we were able to turn it around and we end up taking it gold. You know what I mean? But if he were to came when it was moving, it could be platinum. Who knows? See, that's what's so important to me because so what I realized working with artists from ground up is when they experience this big crowd, it feels amazing. Everything's moving, right? They're barely touching anything. Some of them actually get weird and step back from everything and just don't do anything. I've heard people say stuff like, man, I kept getting all these comments on TikTok and I just stopped going on TikTok for a while. But the frustrating thing as someone who's now seen quite a few things is, let's just say I've never done a hundred K streams before. All of a sudden this thing in my mind goes crazy. And I'm in like two million streams on the song, right? But you to Corey, I like, bro, this should be 50 million streams. Right. But they don't know that in that window is the difference between it being 50 million and maybe 10 million or 20 million. Like it's like being in the zone in sports. Right. You really got to lock in. $50 today, you're going to get back $20 in this window. Usually you put in five and you only get two back. Today you get 20, but that's not going to happen for so long. So like that fee, if you're going to pay that fee, now is the time to pay it, right? You got to catch it. You got to catch in the moment. It's best to catch it as soon as it starts. Like it's best to catch it from the very beginning because that makes it easier to find the source number one. You know what I mean? Because finding the source is very important. It's very important to find what started this. You know what I mean? But catching it from the beginning is best, but definitely just know like after 60 days, it's just about a wrap. You know what I mean? Like it's very rare that trends happen twice. It's very rare. I've seen it, but it's extremely rare. When the constant like looking for that source, do you have like any special things or usually you just got your team discovered on the internet? Luckily, like TikToks and real search, search is really good. You know what I mean? So it comes down to the technology. You know what I mean? Luckily, like the technology is good and it makes it easier to find. You know what I mean? Like you can search like key words for like, so like there's a song, I think it's called Throw It that's going viral, right? But the song is you don't, you know, you better hype your best. So I can type in hype your best. And find it versus having to know the name of the song. You know what I say? So like, so luckily because their search engine is so good, it makes it a little bit easier. Okay. Before we leave this subject, because, you know, talking about Justine's guy that being a TikTok song and obviously way number one, people have been talking a lot lately, giving all this TikTok slander out, saying that TikTok isn't it, you know, it had its moment, it's done, it's so much harder to break songs, right? Right. In short, my perspective is right. Yes, it was that for a period of time where a few things were just happening. The algorithm was open and now it's a little bit harder, but it's about doing your job too, right? What's your perspective on TikTok in terms of like, yeah, just the state of TikTok for breaking music today? So yes, you missed a moment. You know what I mean? And I was screaming at, I was telling everybody do not miss this moment, because I knew it was not going to last. This is what people have to understand. TikTok is a business just like any other business. Their initial goal was to track as many people here as possible. How do I do that by giving away eyeballs? I give away the views, meaning that my algorithm is wide open. I want to show you to as many people as possible. Now, once you all are here, okay, now it's time to make the money. So now these eyeballs cost. Now you have to spend money, TikTok ads, you know what I mean? So now you're paying for these eyeballs, but with that being said, it is a competition who has opened up their algorithm to steal you back from TikTok, YouTube Shorts, Instagram Reels. Algorithms wide open right now. So it's like, if you're paying attention, you just have to, well, you have to pay attention. Like, so for example, I started a TikTok, I'm sorry, I started Instagram page, family page, December 24, we are now, sorry date, February 15, 16. So about 50 days in, I haven't spent any money, the page had no problem. I started the page at zero. In the last 50 days, the page has reached 2 million accounts. All I'm doing is posting content. You know what I mean? And it's still don't got no followers, just like how TikTok, you don't have to add no followers. All you have to do is post good content and the algorithm is going to make sure it gets seen because they're trying to make you come back from TikTok. Hey, man, come on back over here. We're giving it away. That's what's happening right now. So you just got to pay attention to where they're giving away to audience. And right now, that's YouTube Shorts and that's, and that's Reels. Back to music on TikTok. You missed it. You should have been here when it was popping and we were screaming, get on TikTok. But you know, us black folks, we was like, oh, they dancing. Now it's still possible. It's just not as possible. You know what I mean? So it's still there. Like, so on the same token, I started a family TikTok page too. And we had two videos. I have a video on there that has 4 million views and I have a video on there that has like a quarter million views. So I was still able to get some, some, you know, traction on that page on almost four and a half million views in total on that page. No money spent. And so the thing about that though is like, had I been an artist, all I would have did was put my music inside of that content. And that would, and if I had done that, that would mean in the past 50 days, I haven't spent no money, 6.5 million people have heard my music. You know what I mean? And I tell artists, it's that simple. It's consistency and content, content consistently. That's all it is. You know what I mean? But also you have to, you have to be an artist in the sense of you have to put the music in there indirectly. If I'm just trying to flush the music down a throat, it's going to be a lot harder. But if I'm making good content and indirectly showing them my music in that content, then I have a way better chance of them hearing my music and discovering like content is all about discovery. I'm using the content to be discovered. So for me right now, I'm building a family bread. So I'm not selling them anything directly. I'm just showing them my family. I'm introducing them to my family. And in the past 50 days, like I said, about six and a half million people have seen my family. You know what I'm saying? So it's so possible, but don't rely on just TikTok. If I had to rely on just TikTok, I would have missed the 2 million people over here on Reels. You know what I mean? So you gotta watch. Yeah. Yeah. Don't rely on just TikTok. As somebody who's had the success you've had with their music and helping artists, what makes you start a family page? Well, and this is just a personal thing that everybody's different. Some people, you know, they like, they really want to dominate and be on top of something forever. I don't have that same desire when it comes to music. You know what I mean? I love making music. And I think that's, you know, not only in person, that's part of the issue is we not really making music no more. Like everybody has their own home studio, they're at home recording in a closet. So it's not like a collaborative effort. Like when we're coming in the studio, I got the producer. I got the writer. You know what I mean? That's the aspect I love most about music is, is doing that part of it. Now I'm more of a, I'm behind the computer. I'm behind the desktop. And listen, I've been 10 times more successful behind this computer than I ever was the other way. But it's not about success to me. Like I like to do what I like to do. You know what I mean? I do this stuff because I love it. And the part I loved it is gone for the most part. You know what I mean? People aren't really doing that no more. And so the success is great. I love it. You know what I mean? But there are also other things that in life, and you know, I had a conversation with a real person, had a conversation with my wife and she was just like, you know, if you do start, because I've always been about constant, even before content was the big thing. I was always about content. And so she was like, well, if you start a family brand, you'll spend more time with your family. And I was like, you're right. And so that's why I was like, you know what? I will start a family brand. So that way, because she knows me. I'm about business. You know what I mean? I'm about business. But if I can make this family thing a business, that means I'll be living for a living. You know what I mean? And so that's more desirable. Yeah. That's dope. That's dope. Because I mean, I feel like with that in mind, like you hear people from the old school, I would say, I don't want those free old but like we hear people from the past and it just complained about the things that aren't out. But I don't hear enough of like, what was missing that you love like just from living not like this ain't as good. This is trans. It's like, yo, I really enjoy this part of the game. This part of the game is gone. But then, you know, the life hack that you're all right now, like putting family and the business together, you know, when that starts to take off. Right. You start to get the type of ads. Right. Exactly. Like that's going to be, oh, another thing, your skill set. Yeah. You know what to do with that. Yeah, no, I'm definitely built for it. I mean, because you can do, you know, multi-million, like, Justine is a good example. Justine does multi-million dollars in brand deals every year. You know, just talking to her mother about that. So you can do multi-million brand deals every year, but then you can start your own brand and be a billionaire, you know, like a Rihanna, like a Kylie Jenner, et cetera like that. So, you know, I'm not trying to be the Kardashians, but I know what my skill set I can make my family, you know, close to as famous. You know what I mean? And I'm not even trying to be famous, but I understand what I can build from that thing, which type of wealth I can build from that thing. And so, so you have that aspect to it. And like I said, it's like, you're literally living for a living. The stuff that's going viral on those pages, that's just our life. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not, I'm not working. That's just literally, that's what's happening in our life. And it's viral material because we're sharing it. And I know how to frame it to make it viral material. You know what I mean? So it's literally living for a living. And so I think that's our, and I'm not saying that I'm just, you know, I'm done with music. So I don't want, I don't want the people out there to get that mistake. But you asked me why I'm doing that. And that's, that's why. Finding that passion in a different place. Yeah, exactly. So you mentioned Justine a couple of times and the Tik Tok and all that stuff. And he said something earlier that I wasn't aware of. You said the song first came out in 2014. Yeah, the song was released in 2014. Released. Yeah. Why do you think it started pop now? Do you think it has something to do with the grown-ish? Well, it wasn't that, man, that's another lesson I teach artists, bro, is like, you just got to put the energy out there. And as the more energy you put out there, the more possibilities you create for the energy to come back. And so Justine is a great example. That K-Camp is a good example of that. So while I started with Justine, song came out in 2014, right? The reason that it has popped again, the spark was a content creator that works on a Netflix show decided to use the song as part of their Tik Tok. You know what I mean? So like they were creating Tik Toks for their shows, Tik Tok page, they use the song. And that was the initial re-entry into people's minds. And then from there, people took it and started creating with it. And that's it. And so Justine had zero to do with it. But it would have never happened had she not been putting out music. And so the same thing, I go back to K-Camp. If you weren't like a solid, solid K-Camp fan, I think from around 2016 to 2019, you would have thought he wasn't even releasing music. But the whole time he kept putting out. And this is probably, me and him had already parted ways in 2015. But he was kept putting out music, music, music, music. And then some little girl decided to do a dance to his latest song. K-Camp had nothing to do with it. But he had everything to do with it because he was constantly putting it out there. You know what I mean? That's what artists had to understand. Like magic does happen. Like miracles do happen. Like you put it out there, you never know what individual is going to take your song, create one piece of content to it that's going to change your life. And so that one person that that show hired to make TikToks changes to your life. And that one little girl that decided to make a dance to K-Camp's song, changed K-Camp's life again. You know what I mean? And so it's like, it ain't always on you. You know what I mean? It's like, what is it? Religious, but it's like, God will fight your battles. And all you have to do is just be present. And then, you know, something to come along that'll bless you and just change your life. Yeah. I like that because the idea of just continue to put the energy out there. It sounds like abstract, but it really does apply when you put those situations in there. And something to happen with us is, so at this point, we've had Charlie D'Amelio post, maybe four or five times, never paid her. That's crazy. And the first time was completely accident, but the next few times there was, we had some strategies and kind of like how to increase the possibility. But the first time what happened was we had this song on TikTok. It's like 2019. And we're working it, it starts to take off, and it gets to around 10,000 videos, artist budget runs out, right? The next song, Charlie D'Amelio finds it before we even really do anything, but then she discovered they're through the first song. So she never posted to that person. Now you have that person in your vicinity, right? And console me, you're like Justine, right? She wasn't pushing that song anymore. But years later, someone went down the rabbit hole of Justine because they might have found out. They probably found a new song and was like, what else does she have? Right. And so you never know. And it really, again, it sounds like this abstract thing, but it really is practical as long as you know, you keep putting energy out there. And hopefully you have ownership of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That's another, that's another piece to it. Like, you know, when she put that song out, she was on Atlantic, but when she left Atlantic, her mother's an entertainment lawyer. So when she left Atlantic, her mother was able to get those masters back. Yeah. So she owns that song. And so every stream, Justine Spockin. That's beautiful. Yeah. That's beautiful. Now the last subject I want to hit you with today is just the idea that indie artists can make a living without being famous today. What is the statement straight from a quote from Dan Runsey, my guy, well, well, actually, I wrote it straight up. He basically said, yeah, today, any artist can make a living without being famous. The whole idea of it. So shout out to Dan and Tripodile. What do you think about that idea and how can they do that practically? So this this lends us to it leads us to the future, right? I was actually having this conversation on the way here with somebody. Streaming has been a phenomenal success in my eyes because it took away literal gatekeepers. And so now everybody can reach the masses, right? But because you can reach the masses doesn't mean you're going to get rich or wealthy because you're still getting pennies per stream. But now it's coming next with web three, you're going to be able to go direct to consumer. And we just did this with LaRussell. LaRussell, we we sold his album before it came out. Before his album had even dropped, we already had accumulated $100,000. And then the beauty of that is he didn't have to wait three months for this little kid to pay him. The moment that the person paid for the product, it was in his wallet. He had that $100,000 before the album even came out. That's direct to consumer. And so where we're headed, you don't have to be famous at all. If you have a thousand solid fans that are willing to give you $10 every time you drop an album, that's $100,000 every time you drop an album. Well, if you drop let's just be modest and say you drop two a year, you're making $200,000 a year off the music that, you know, sadly, I hate that you're making in your closet. You know what I mean? The music that you're making in your closet, you're making, you have a thousand solid fans. You're not famous at all. You could have 10,000 followers. You're not famous at all. But you're making $200,000 a year off your music. You know what I'm saying? They'll say you stole some live concerts in there where you charge those same fans a dollar to show up. Well, let's say you do three concerts a year. Like, I mean, you're making money in many different ways. Now you want to drop a book. LaRussell's dropped books. Now you drop a book, like you're constantly finding ways to feed your fan base and they're feeding you back by buying directly from you and you're getting that money instantly. You're no longer waiting for DSPs to pay you two, three months later. And so that's where we're headed. LaRussell's from, I know he's Cali. Vallejo. Where is that like outskirts of LA? Yeah, it's Bay Area. It's outskirts of San Francisco. Right about this, man. From what you've observed, what is it in the Bay Area water? Because they got a long history of very entrepreneurial artists there. I mean, it's probably that. LaRussell is a product of Nipsey. You know what I mean? You're only going to go as far most of the time as your examples. And so that's why I love being such an educational person because I'm like, yo, the next person after me is going to be crazy because I'm setting that example for them, you know what I mean? And so big ups to our partnership that we're doing because you guys are the people that I've been missing. I mean, I built a team that's passionate on breaking artists, but now I have a team that's passionate on educating artists. You know what I mean? I was going to say, we're going to break these courses. Yeah. And so it's so big. But yeah, it's like, he got to see different examples, but man, he took it to an incredible level. I would call LaRussell the most inspiring person J.R. McKee met in 2022. Most inspiring person I met, bro. I've never been more happy to do a partnership than the one I did with him. And it's the longest it ever took me to do a partnership because he's such a genuine person. He took months to make sure I was genuine. You know what I mean? And so I was so happy to be in partnership with him, man. Still, like the most inspirational person I met last year, I've changed business structures, my own personal business because of LaRussell. You know what I mean? Because of what I watched him do. You know what I mean? So inspirational about him. I mean, number one, again, you go back to the genuineness, but he really stands for what he says. Like he really, like he means that shit. Like he's going to do, you know, great business. And, you know, there's been times where he didn't got on my ass. And you know, I'm a business man, so I don't budge, but I still love to see his passion. I'm like, damn, be very, that's his nose. But I love, I love how passionate I like, you know, he really stand on that shit. You know what I mean? And he told me he was like, you know, he was like, man, you know, my bad, I just really believe this shit. And I believe it with him. You know what I mean? And so, like, just to watch all the good work he did, to watch the way he worked with people, man, to watch the way he treat people, man, like, you know, hear him speak. Like I, you know, I've grown to be a great speaker, fortunately for me. But like, I love just listening to him talk. You know what I mean? I just, man, listen, most inspiring person I met for sure, man. I'm very proud of him because he's so much younger than me. And, you know, I even saw my younger ways in him. And I tried to be that older figure to tell him, like, you know, some of the ways you go about things. I've been there. I did that. And I'm telling you, that's not the way to go about it. You know what I mean? So hopefully, he was able to pick up some of that too. You know what I mean? Because I definitely saw my younger self in him, man. But I love that guy, man. Dope. Well, I want to leave it here. You're from where in Mississippi? So I'm from Starkville, Mississippi. And I'm not really from there, but you know, I grew up there. I'm from Starkville, Mississippi. I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. Yeah, I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. But my mother moved me to Starkville. She just celebrated her 30 year wedding anniversary on Valentine's Day. Yeah. So, so, but when she, when she got married, she moved me and my sister to Starkville, Mississippi. And, you know, most of my upbringing was down there on Mississippi. So a lot of people, you know, they, they stamped me as a Mississippi guy. And then, you know, I don't fight that. But I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. My mom, my mom, our entire family's from Cleveland, Ohio. I also grew up there. So it's kind of like a 50-50 situation. Yeah. So being from Starkville, my way of Cleveland. Yeah. I think I used that in the right way. You did. Actually, that was, that's perfect. Beautiful. Yeah. And now being where you are today, I know shit ain't always been sweet. Right? Yeah, of course that. So, especially in music, what's been your method and motivation for continuing on, not just to go and strive and try to be successful anyway, because I think somewhere where you are, you have that thing where you're going to be successful, you just don't know how you're going to get there, but you wouldn't do that. There was so somewhere, but specifically staying in music. Right? Ups and downs. Oh, yeah. I got two key things. I don't know if it's kept me going, but two key things that saved me, that like that, was I was able to keep going because I adhered to these two things. Let's call it three. The first one I would say is contracts. You know what I mean? This is a business where people will change their mind. People, you know, people switch up. People forget. You know what I mean? And so, contracts have been very valuable in my career. So, I will always advise people when you're starting business, get it on paper. So, contracts have saved me for sure. The other two lessons come from Rich that poor dad, the book. You guys should all read that. I'm not talking to y'all. You guys should all read that book. And there were two key principles in there are the reason that I've had my success and been able to sustain. The first one being if you want to become wealthy, you have to learn how to serve people. You know what I mean? And so, that's what I've done all my career is I've served artists. You know what I mean? Having an artist is like having a child. You know what I mean? And no disrespect to artists, but that's literally what it's like. You're raising the magic kid down there. And so, I've served people and helped them realize their dreams. And so, that's what has made me successful is by making them successful. And there's the second thing and even more key is on the financial side. Rich that poor dad teaches you to only live off of 10% of your earnings. So, you know, if you make and this might not be practical to people, but if you make 100,000, you want to be, you want to have your living expenses under 10,000. You know what I mean? And I can't say that I ever lived at 10%, but I've always lived extremely below, extremely below. And that's very helpful, especially when it came to like, finding a woman. You know what I mean? Because like when I first met my girl, my wife now, you know, I was raking in the money. But as time went on, the money stopped. But because I never lived the way I could have lived, she never knew. Like there was a good three-year span. I didn't make any new money. You know what I mean? But because I had so much savings and lived so well below my income, she lived the same lifestyle and never knew I wasn't making new money. You know what I mean? And that's because of what Rich Dapport had told me. Like I've always lived well below the amount of money I make. You know, because there was times, you know, I could have had lambos, mansions. I could have had all of that, but I had one car. You know what I mean? Stay in the town. And so like, you know, and to her, she, you know, she looked at that, that was balling to her. You know what I mean? Like, you know, it's this thing that got money. But, you know, I could have had way more, but I, you know, luckily, like I hear to that teaching that I've always, you know, lived below my means. And that saved me because like you said, the ups and downs of not just the music business life. You know, my first lesson in the music business was this shit don't last forever. And that was when we got our first record deal with Cadillac Dun and Jay Money. It was Inside Peanut Butter, Outside Jellies, Mississippi Track. Yeah. So we got our first record deal. That's this is how I left college. I was 19 years old. We got a record deal. And my dad told me when I became successful, I can leave college. I didn't want to go to college. He made me go. But so when I got that record deal, he let me leave. We went on a roll about nine month run making at that time what I would consider hella money. You know what I mean? But I was spending it as I was getting it because in my mind, this is my new life. This is going to be forever. You know what I mean? But no, it lasted nine months. I came home with nothing because I spent everything I made. And so that was an early lesson like okay, in music, you're going to be hot and you're going to be cold. You're going to be hot. You're going to be cold. You know what I mean? There's been so many cold years. But because I always lived under my means, the cold years look just like the hot years. You know what I mean? And that's what you want to that's how you want to do it because it's going to be cold years no matter what profession, career, whatever. You know what I mean? Life life is ups and downs. Life is what they say about the heart EG chart. It was like when it's like this, you did. Yeah, you flat line. So life is never going to be this. If it's like that, you did. Life is always going to be this. You know what I mean? And so that lesson that Rich Dapport had taught me definitely saved my career because I would have been out. Yeah. There was a point where you couldn't return from. Yeah. I love it, man. That's a beautiful way to end this off. As we already said, y'all go check the link in the description. We got something special that we're going to be starting up and launching shared information. And as always, check us out Tuesdays and Thursdays. I'm Brian man, Sean. I'm Cobra. Yeah, man. She boy, J.R. McKee, man. And we out. Appreciate y'all.