 Several reactions trail the Lagos State Ansar's report as the United States demands sanctions while the Chief of Defence Staff, General Lockheed Rabo says the report was released through the rogue channels. And women take the four in the force-covering elections in equity as eight join the governorship race. This is Plus Politics. I am Mary Anacorn. Different reactions have trail the report of the Lagos State Judicial Panel of Inquiry on Restitution for Victims of the Sars-related Issues of Abuses and Other Matters with the United States stating that they look forward to Lagos State and the federal government taking suitable measures to address those alleged abuses as well as the grievances of victims and their families. Also, the Chief of Defence Staff, General Lockheed Rabo, claims that the report was released through the rogue channel and that the Lagos State Governor, Babaji Desong Oulu says it will help to start the process of proper reconciliation of affected victims. Now joining us to this costus is Legal Practitioner, Inibaghe Ifyong, and former Special Advisor to the River State Governor, Oppenabot Inko Taria. Thank you very much, Mr Taria, for joining us. And thank you very much, Inibaghe. Thank you, and good evening. All right. Thank you. My pleasure to join you this evening. All right. So I'm going to start with you, Inibaghe, because you obviously have been front and centre with a couple of people on this particular issue. Just as we started by saying that several reactions have trailed this, the presentation of the report, there are some sensitive parts of this report, just like Mr Rabo has said that it was released. Some of the pages of this report were released through the wrong means. I don't know what he meant by that, but I remember the last time we spoke on the issue of the bullets that were matched with the army, you didn't sound very positive as to if the government was able to do anything or if people were going to get justice. But here we are now. A report has been presented. Some of the, some bits of that report have been leaked, even though people are saying they are unable to authenticate the veracity of the contents of those leaked pages. But what are your thoughts now? Do you have a change of heart somewhat to if the government is going to get justice for the people and all of the victims involved, whether those who were dead or those who were alive? Well, regarding the leakage in quotes of the report, I don't think we should dissipate energy on how the manner in which this report came to public light. I can confirm to you that the substance of that report in circulation, the one you are referencing, inaccurate, I can confirm that to you authoritatively. What is it being, what is in circulation? It's a true representation of the position of the panel. But what is being circulated, however, is the draft. That is why it does not have the signature of the chairman and members of the panel. But when the clean copy comes out, you will see that this is exactly the same thing. The difference is that in the one that is being circulated, there are a few typographical errors. But as to substance, as to their findings, there is nothing in that report that is different from what the panel found or what they have recommended to the best of my knowledge. Now, I want us to be very realistic about this. We have a regime, a government, if you prefer that, in this country to be, that has no regard for human rights. And the government is not pretending about this. Answers, protests happen because of failure of governance. I like to stress these points at every opportunity that I have. They wouldn't have been answers if we had a responsible government. If we had a government that lives up to its responsibilities. People came out to protest because of the vacuum in leadership. The issue of police brutality, the issue of the strategic killing of Nigerians has not been addressed till date. And you sit here now with all that has happened. Nigerians are still being killed almost on a daily basis by the police. People are still being arrested illegally. I receive these complaints and reports almost on a daily basis. So what that shows you is clear lack of political will, clear its sincerity. Now, will there be justice in terms of implementation? Yes and no. There are aspects of that report that I believe that the legal state government is going to implement. The greater challenge. And I hope so. I hope so. I want to give the government some benefit of doubt. But as it pertains to the conduct, the criminal conduct of the Nigerian army, led by people like Bello and others, we may never see light at the end of the tunnel. As far as this current regime is concerned. Possibly what we have there. But the government is not in charge of the judiciary. I mean, if this is a report that has been presented, it's supposed to take due process. There has to be prosecution one way or the other because they've been indicted. When you say the regime, you make it sound like the government controls everything. No, this is not a matter for the courts. It is an entirely, at this point, it is an executive matter. It is not judiciary. Okay, it's not a judicial matter. It is not a legislative matter. Of course, parliament can intervene, but it is not a matter for the courts. The panel has made recommendations. They have reached a conclusion on fundamental issues. One, whether they were the massacre, they have confirmed that they were the massacre. They have given faces to some of the victims of the massacre. They have confirmed indeed that the governor of Ligosta invited the army to attack innocent protesters. They have confirmed that the army sabotaged the protest. They are defining that clear. What I am telling you is that under the law, we look at session 218 of the constitution. The operational use of the armed forces is vested in the president. So this report is also an index meant on the president because it is either Bwari gave the order as commander-in-chief for those soldiers to invade the Toge and kill innocent endurance, or is not in control of the armed forces. In which case, it is as bad as defects because it's sure that really there is no commander-in-chief because we have to listen. This is commander-in-chief. You cannot be commanding as a chief if you do not have control of those who are your subordinates. Now having become aware, let us assume for a second that the president was oblivious of the massacre, of the atrocity they had the army committed at the Doge. Having become aware, having been established through a judicial inquiry, what action is the president going to take? That is the question. I am not optimistic. I do not have any confidence that this president is going to implement the recommendations of the panel. Interesting. I just want to ask you one more question. If I go to in Kotara, there were very many other panels that were set up at the behest of the NSAS protest, of course, to address the issues in different states. But Laker State seems to be the only panel that followed through and has now presented a report. I do not know if you are the right person to ask the question, but I will ask it nevertheless. What happened to the other panels? Why have they not followed through? We have not even heard of any sitting. The one in Cross River is almost nonexistent. There should have been one also in Rivers. We have not heard anything. Really, what are we to make up all that? The governors are irresponsible. It is as simple as that. Most governors in Nigeria are irresponsible. I cannot apologize for saying so. They are clearly irresponsible. They do not care. In some of the states, the inquiry was not even in panel. The governors did not even set up the inquiry. In other states, they grudgingly, reluctantly constituted the panels, but refused to provide logistics for the panels to work. One of those states is acquirable. After the panel was set up, I got to know that the funds that were meant for the taking off of the panel was diverted by somebody in government. When the funds were able to sit subsequently, the governor even frustrated the release of the report. I do not know whether they have finally sent it to Abuja or not. This is the story in most of the states. Legals are taking the center stage. One, because of the incident of the 20th of October, the two kids, which drew the attention of the international community. Two, because legals, whether we agree or not, you agree or not. Legals is the faith of Nigeria. Every part of the government is represented in legals. The media is in legals. The civil society is in legals. The leaders of a legal profession is in legals. It is natural for greater attention to be paid to legals. But other states, very little attention has been paid. Why? The governors are irresponsible. Interesting. Mr. Tariah, on the report, 11 people were killed. Four are still being declared missing. 20 of them have been injured. All of them at the leaky toll. But in November of 2020, I'd just like to bring the minds of everyone watching to what the minister for information, Mr. Lai Mohamed, had to say that year. I'd like to quote him. He said, leaky shootings, it's the world's first massacre without blood or corpses. How bad does this report rub off on the federal government and state government? Well, let me start by commanding the panel in legals. For the ramrod, the integrity with which is subject, I must commend that panel, because I was one of those who actually dismissed the various panels as a part of duty, which we have set up as a premium policy. The target position gave the world impression that they were actually doing something when in the natural fact, it was saying that the subject used to ensure whatever pluralism must have thrown up will just taste a lot. I haven't said that. On the issue of Lai Mohamed, everybody in Nigeria and even the world at large is now seized of Lai Mohamed, will I call it? I don't, I don't even want to call it ratudies. I'll dismiss it as a Mendocino point. Unfortunately, he's one man that I really admired before the assumption of office administrator for information. But sadly, this is a man that had dragged his name in the moor. Lai Mohamed is known for lies and most times unnerving lies, internal lies, lies that suffer from at least a bit of poverty. What's his name? Winston Churchill once said, he said truth is incontrovertible. Marlins made the right, sorry, Marlins made the start, it did not have to be the right, and that is exactly what has just played out. As a student of an as-student, all as-student, talking of my brother, the lawyer talking of you, Maria, we all also read, I strongly believe, the gods are not to blame, which is a rendition of Odupo's rights, where it is said that the most slowly, but by daybreak it has crossed the sky. And this is exactly what has happened. The truth can never be hidden. And what I cannot also comprehend is the implication of the military. This was purely civil butter, and the people conducted themselves in canonical order way. So there was no need, they had flags singing the national anthem, and so there was no need whatsoever to invite the military. The police at no point in time said they had been overwhelmed. So you find a callous, conscious-less government trying as much as it can in a rustic manner, trying to oppress those that are clamoring for justice, equity, and certainly for good governance in the country. Because we have a government that has embedded us to criticize a government that is there, not in the interest of Nigeria, but is there in its own interest. And that is why we have that macabre dance at the theater of Thailand with the crazy string of lunas. So I will not want to dwell much on what Lai Mohamed, who has no credibility, to say this because it's a national thing, who has no credibility to what's there anymore, to draw a model of that will be confidence of level of prominence and importance to a man that ordinarily should be dismissed or imprisoned from his lead in Nigeria. How can a man without a drink of conscience go to the world to tell the world they are no deaths when it is obvious, your evidentiary proof that people were callously murder of that will. And you go out in so sad that a man without conscience gone ahead, not minding the triple-letting families of the men they beat him so that they are massacred of that will. Rather than that swaggering, rather than telling Nigeria that the government will see to it, the government will address the issues who go on air and is still insisting that there are no deaths on that day. There can not be a devil's representative than that of the person of Lai Mohamed. Let's move on to something else. Yes, let's not dwell on that. Let's move on to something else. On the panel, I'm urging the government to enter the implementation of the panel. On the issue of the CVS, I listened to what my brother said, on the issue of the CVS, he was a equivoker. All he did not question, he did not question the report, the signature of the report, the only question procedural obligation, the situation where, oh, if you have gone through this process, but that is minimizing the maximum and minimizing the minimum. We are not bothered about how it was submitted. They are regretting, they are angry because unlike in those days where we had the bullet theory, the epidemic middle theory, you only hear what the government wants to give to you, today you have different sources of having your information. And that is what is reminding them. And I'm happy because without this leak, without this disclosure, I can tell you that the government that is based by the sincerity of that panel and this report would have somehow embellished it. And so we're happy, we are working for what the Lagos State government will do. And it is a shame that other state governments have swept this issue under the carpet. That is a problem we have in this country. And I pray, I sincerely pray that the Lagos State government will implement the recommendations of that panel or else Nigeria's are going to make a grocery of their conscience. Talking about the Lagos State government, the governor, Babaji Desong, who made some statements at the receipt of that report by members of the panel, let's take a quick listen to what he said and then of course I'm going to take your thoughts on it. Proper, reconciliation, restitution, bringing together of everyone that must have in one form or the other been affected by either the police or any of our citizens that must have been wronged by one form or the other. This process. So he's talking about restitution, he's talking about bringing together everyone that had been hurt one way or the other as a fallout of that incident. He's talked about reconciliation. And let's not also forget that there's also going to be some monies paid to the families of those who lost their loved ones, the injured ones and of course we don't even know about the families of those who are missing. So the Lagos State government has started doing something, but Mr. Inkotiria quickly, how easy is it going to be for the Lagos State government in terms of this issue of restitution that he's talking about again? What's the hope that the Lagos State government can really bring all of this to play? Let's not forget also the government does not have the powers to bring the army to the table. Remember how tough it was for the panel in itself to get the army representatives to come to give their statement at some point, you know, there was some in Broglie. So here we are, the reports has been made clear, we've seen some pieces and bits of it. What's the certainty? Do you think that there is any form of hope out there that maybe this implementation will take place, especially in the angle where the army and the police comes in? Because this is of course, the police was the basis of this whole protest in the first instance. But let's also not forget that governors and the federal government are being indicted one way or the other. What the recommendations of the panel will make Nigerians to make it push, to make it push you of their conscience and you know that, and if they rehash, it will be worse than what we're experiencing. It is very simple. We must go beyond the issue of rhetoric. We're not interested about it. It's not in mouth to mouth-pious relevances and sanctimonious regalities. The panels are as recommended. The recommendations include what should be done to the nature authorities and the role the federal government and the state government are going to play. So it is as simple as ABC. Just take the panel, the report of the panel and implement them. Set up an implementation committee. I hope that the review is all about the implementation and not all about trying to review what the panel has done. Sorry, not trying to observe what the panel has done but has to do with the implementation of what the panel has done. So I don't see anything difficult in implementations. If there is sincerity of purpose, if the government is sincere to assuage the feelings of the family members, of those who love their life, it is very simple. The talking of the security operators, especially the army that have no business, because the constitutional role of the army is to protect the integrity of the nation. Yes, there's also a provisional that says you can invite the army when the police are aware, but we all know that the police are not aware at all. If just as an example of the seriousness of the governor, who just wanted to ingratiate himself with Mr. President, wants to give Mr. President the impression that he is on top of the situation. And Mr. President cannot even absorb himself because of the commander-in-chief. And so whether we like it or not, whether we need it, whether he was aware of the what was going to happen or not, if he is immaterial, the boss must have his table. If the commander-in-chief, the governor, is not even the commander-in-chief, so the President himself cannot be restricted from the plane. So in synopsis, what am I saying? Let the government implement the recommendations of the report and ensure that those soldiers, because you cannot send a military man out without knowing his identity. For the commander, if it's a brigade commander, for example, and he's ordering his boys to go out, then maybe he's going to know how many the names of those that are going to come. Now that's all the important issue that I have to make. You see there, if a soldier dies in work form, is identified, and his family members are compensated. But when a soldier goes out to commit havoc, does something that is illegal, it's because I don't know soldier. We cannot be living in that world of delusion. So his soldiers know those they have sent out. And unfortunately, I will not be blamed though who went out to shoot. Because the soldier is trained to carry orders. I want the man who gave the order to be penalized. Soldiers are meant to carry orders. There is no way a soldier, otherwise, if you are a kid of destiny, a soldier would not have been going to tell his boss, no. You don't say no to your boss in the military. We all know what happened to the bigger soldiers around the country and their lives, when there were vast certain issues. So the commander that sends them out is a man that should be penalized. And that will go a long way in placating and asserting the feelings of the agreed, a very large extent. The commander must be sacked. He has to be sacked. We ask the government to implement the recommendations of the panel. Let me go back to you, Niberga. The federal government seems to be pretty quiet on this issue. Many are hoping to hear from Mr. President or his office. I mean, since this report surfaced, lots of people have posted on social media saying, well, let's hear what the federal government has to say about this issue. But they seem to be tight lipped about it. But let me take you back to 2020 to something that the special presidential spokesperson, Femi Adesino, said. I'd like to quote him directly. We'll put up that picture right now on our screen. He said, and I quote, if President Buhari hadn't exercised the restraint and the tolerance of a father, he would have been taking or would have been talking of something else in this country. He continues by saying, the rivers of Nigeria could have turned crimson and mourning and lamentations would have surfaced at the lead. He also said, but we are thankful for the father in Mr. President, that's Buhari, his patience enduring almost to a fault. End of quote. Now that post, I think he put it on Twitter at the time in 2020. He was praising the president for his restraint. And I'm wondering what that restraint was about. And he also made a statement about blood flowing and crimson. This is even after the fact that people had been killed at the toll gate where they called a hoax. And remember, we had that issue with the CNN, international media houses who had reported on this issue. So I'm more curious. This is a lot, if you ask me, but do you think that the federal government in Ibarca is ever going to speak on this issue again, knowing that they may somewhat be tied to this and indicted one way or the other? And also bearing in mind that the United Nations, the U.S., are also calling for sanctions. We don't have to wait and see, frankly, but I have caution against excessive optimism. I think we should approach this with caution. We are dealing with a regime that has no regard for the rule of law. And you see one rule of law is undermined. The very fabric of state is destroyed. Now, I don't expect them to depart from the scandalous position that they have been, they have taken over time. For example, I don't expect them one man to have the decency to recant the very provocative positions that he took in the past on this matter. It's not likely going to do that because the people who are doing this are shameless. There is no shame in the government. But then we have a report that we have a report that clearly states the opposites, which is very obvious. So why would they not recant? Well, because you cannot shame the shameless. It's as simple as that. You cannot shame the shameless. This is not the first time that a massacre has happened on that point. Meanwhile, the Islamic women of Nigeria were slaughtered in 2016. 348 are found by the Mohamed Gawah, Judge Mohamed Gawah led judicial panel of inquiry. Have they been implemented? Was anybody sanctioned? Was any soldier commercial? Was Brett not awarded as the non-career ambassador for that atrocity in order that he committed well in office? What are we talking about? We have a brutal dictatorship on our hands and we just have to link with that reality. But I want to assume that one day we will have a responsible government in this country that will take action on those issues, that will review this matter and put the criminal who killed Nigeria and Dontraya. But if we are waiting for Bwari to do that, then we can as well wait forever. I don't have any hope at all that this report as it relates to sanctioning the persons who were directly involved in that atrocity. I don't have any hope that that is going to be done. I don't. Quickly, the People's Democratic Party has joined in the group of people who are making demands to government at all levels as a result of this report. But how do we, especially people like you civil society activists and advocates, make sure that this issue is handled devoid of any political bias because it's one way or the other. It will become an APC versus a PDP thing in no time. How do we make sure that that doesn't even become the order of the day? PDP doesn't have credibility to speak on issues of this nature because our state leave Lagos, leave the two gates massacre for a second. They are 36 states in Nigeria. Over 10 of those states are controlled by the PDP, including our people and others and rivers. Have they submitted their reports? What have their governors done? Which PDP state has made compensation to victims of police brutality or victims of incest? Which, so the party must also look at itself in the mirror. What have they done to call their governors to order? That's why I'm saying I'm not bothered about what PDP says. I am bothered about what affects the common man and what the common man says. That's my position. In Kotara, you wanted to say something. No, I asked if I did that question with the director. Well, if you think… As an amendment to what my brother actually said, PDP, the political hostages have started, so PDP will consciously exploit the situation. And otherwise, like he rightly said, if there to be a back issue or to be one task issue of the other, you see all the governors making all sorts of unnecessary noise left, right and center. But now this has to do with compensation. This has to do with massacre. You see the way they stand themselves for me. So what is the PDP talking about? It's just trying to score a cheap political goal. And that's what justice PDP is trying to do. So nobody should take what the PDP is saying seriously. After all, we had your demassacre. And the massacre was under PDP. We had all kinds of massacres that you present under PDP. We had conversations so this has just got beyond partisan politics. It has to do with humanity. And so let us not talk about what the PDP is saying or what the WDT is saying or what the YYC is saying. And that brings me to my last question. My last question before we go because we're out of time. What does it say about how the average Nigerian state treats, rather what does it say about the Nigerian state and how it treats humans? Is there any value whatsoever placed on the life of the average Nigerian? And I'm trying to tie this to what happened to the young girl who died in custody outside the country. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The life of any Nigerian is valueless in the eyes of the government. That's the truth about it. You can imagine if an American is in difficulty in this country, what the state of the American government would think. Relentlessly, they say the situation, they say that America. But in 21 million Nigerians can die. I listened to what Advocate Davorek, who was stressing the issue of for our from where to where, how annoying, how shameful it is. But Nigerian lives are not valued by our leaders. Unfortunately, they're not valued. I asked myself because if you were dying for this country, we call Nigeria. Because at the end of the day, we'll just send messages to you, condolences messages to you, and make all kinds of promises that will never be fulfilled. That is the truth about it. So that is why we have the problems we have with this country. How many Nigerians believe in Nigeria? Most Nigerians don't even believe in the country we call Nigeria. And that is as a result of the exclusive leadership we have. That is because we have leaders who are not there in the image of Nigeria, but who are there for allocentric criticism, for allocentric criticism. So it is not what I must consider. It's a shame. But I must tell you, it is not worth dying for the present Nigeria we live in. Yesterday, in the days of our fathers yet, I don't know what to know. But for today, it is not worth dying for the present. Now you will die, I will be forgotten. You will be died. You will die. I will be concerned. Because of the power of leaders. Well, on that very sad and gloomy note, I want to say thank you for being part of the conversation. Inibara Fiong is, of course, a legal practitioner, and Oponabou Inko Taria is a former aide to the governor of Riverstay. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for being here. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Well, here are the seven key recommendations of the Lagos Judicial Panel. When we come back, I'll be giving you our next topic for conversation. Stay with us.