 How do you develop this empathy muscle if you have no experience being in someone else's shoes and you have no experience with that culture? I have two answers. One, coming out of Jamil Zaki's lab, a colleague here, is simply to understand that empathy is like a muscle. It does grow. You can get better at it. And he shows that believing that leads to that, that people hang in there a little bit longer to empathize when they have a growth mindset around empathy. And I do think that one of the overriding virtues that came out of a lot of the research I reviewed is just the importance of patience, hang in there, hang in there, especially in these difficult fraught encounters. Often they will go better if you hang in there. Because as you're talking about with a relationship, people use the fact that you're hanging in there as a gauge of your level of commitment. And the more you hang in there, the more it says, I really want to learn and grow and understand. So that's one is have a growth mindset around empathy. The second answer to how to achieve this empathy is through what's known as emotion-based empathy or an emotion-based empathic strategy. And this was developed by a colleague of mine, Ronaldo Mendoza, but has been subsequently used in the political context, basically boils down to first try to understand a person's emotion. What are they feeling? And then think of an analogous time in your life when you felt that emotion too. So you're not putting yourself in the shoes of the other person, because a lot of times when we do that we say, yeah, I mean, if I were to say a situation, I wouldn't have done that. So it actually drives people apart. But what you do and say is you listen to the heart, not the head. What are they feeling? And often it's hurt, pain, disrespect. And then you think of a time in your own life where you've been there. And a lot of times it's not very flattering. You learn, you realize that, hey, what I did in similar situations when I was feeling that way was uncomfortably similar. But it can be used as a tool for creating understanding across political lines. David Bruchman and Josh Kala have this great and very hopeful study showing the power of deep canvassing to bridge divides. Long story short, they go into these very conservative districts and in Florida, Miami-Dade, and they try to open people up to transphobic rights. It's just a 10 minute conversation that the residents have with a canvasser. There's a lot of elements, but there is one thing in there that I think is very important, which is this analogic perspective taking. They're trying to open up these conservative residents to the idea that people who are transgender should be supported and their rights recognized legally. And usually the residents are like, no, I don't get why anyone would be transgender. I don't like it, like their minds are closed, but their hearts are open. So what they do is they say they'll ask people, you know, we all know it hurts. It hurts to feel treated negatively or unfairly because of something about you that you can't control or because of something about who you are. When have you felt that way and what happened? And that just opens people's heart. So it's the first, it's the heart that opens, then the head falls. And one of the residents talked about how he had PTSD after serving in Iraq, and he couldn't find employment because he had PTSD. And so he, and that made him understand, oh, that's kind of the emotional experience these transgender kids and individuals are having too. And, oh, I kind of could kind of understand a little better. And that intervention, all told, there's a few other elements, is the only thing that I know of that enduringly opens people up to change on strong beliefs.