 This is one of the Topics that's kind of nearest and dearest to my heart, which is why I proposed this panel It was really excited to then be able to invite these incredible leaders to join and share and Essentially in in the work that we do at candy group and working with families and foundations that want their money working for justice There's two principles that we think a lot about So one is this idea of nothing about us without us that we should not Ideally and I would say that these are principles we wrestle with these are not principles that we've mastered These are kind of open areas of inquiry I would say for us and for impact investing in social enterprise in general the idea of having communities engaged in design governance and ownership of What's happening and not just being treated as recipients or beneficiaries but being protagonists and a recognition of the idea that people Closest to problems will know solutions Beyond that should get to make decisions about how funding is happening. So the second Concept that we have to really wrestle with in our daily work as impact investors is the idea of the golden rule Which is that the one who has the gold makes the rules, right? That often it's investors who get to decide what impact is regardless of what their lived experience might be your proximity to the problem and that what we tried to wrestle with is how Do we ensure that those with greatest proximity to issues get to make funding decisions? And we're seeing increasingly that savvy donors investors are really thinking about rather than Spending a lot of time making a lot of small decisions about how to build a portfolio They can make one big really great decision and that's to turn over decision-making power and what we have is three amazing leaders on the stage who have done that through Grants through debt through equity through different models of community engagement different Criteria of how they think about community and what community means in their context and I'm really excited for them to each in our first round To introduce themselves to share a bit about the work They're doing it then all take some time to go through some questions diving more deeply into those models and then we'll open It up to the room So we're going to go left to right here and start with Esperanza Faiana. Thank you so much for joining us Thank you. Thank you Esperanza Faiana I'm executive director at Food and Farm Communications Fund. We are a movement led participatory grant maker and Have been implementing this process since about 2019 my own journey in this process has been throughout my career actually in Designing various participatory processes first through programs and then in working with financial institutions To embed that process whether it be through community advisory boards or You know more more in-depth processes, let's say and Serving to the in that capacity as well So have served on as a founding chair of the Oakland soda tax advisory board supporting budgetary process and Also am on part of the resource council with Pollockers capital, which is also a community advisory board to them Well, I don't get enough Opportunities to get to publicly recognized how grateful I am every day To get to work alongside my colleague Leslie lendo Managing director the Olamina fund. So I guess I'm I'm excited that not only get to hear about the work But just seeing incredible integrity that Leslie brings to the work every day. So thank you for that. Thank you Morgan Yeah, so Olamina fund is one of the loan vehicles at candy group and we focus on Racial and economic justice Primarily investing in the deep South Native American communities and rural America and Really kind of the intent intention is to create access to capital and resources in communities that have faced historic Disinvestment and extraction and so it's just been such an honor to I think work with communities across the country and really understand what's happening on the ground and I think similarly to Esperanza Come from a long history of nonprofit work, which I think You know, I don't think folks really recognize how important that is to bring into The finance world of having really kind of the social services background And also serving on other boards that have really done a lot of experimentation on what it means to have more distributed and Democratic governance models and so that's one of the Things that I'm excited to share and what inspired me to really build out our community advisory board the way that it has been and Excited to talk about that with y'all today Yeah, so I'm the chief growth officer at village capital and village capital is a global organization Working primarily to unlock capital for entrepreneurs with lived experience who are building innovative solutions for emergent social economic and environmental problems and so advancing equity and democratizing decision investment decision making has been a foundational aspect of our mission since Our establishment and we've developed a number of frameworks and tools To advance that so our pioneering peer selection methodology works basically to mitigate Gender bias in the investment decision-making process and also works You know to address the the power and balance between the investors and the entrepreneurs and this year we We published another tool the smarter systems framework Which allows investors to tweak their due diligence process to be able also to mitigate Gender bias and helps them unlock further investment opportunities that they would have naturally overlooked as well and We've also deployed our capital Explorer tool, which is an online Diagnostics financing tool which helps entrepreneurs identify the type of Funding structure that best suits their Needs needs so it's not just channeling the right type of capital Channeling capital, but also channeling the right type of capital For those entrepreneurs while at the same time mitigating biases So yeah, and prior to that I run an entrepreneur support organization I'm from Jordan and I worked very closely with entrepreneurs with lived experience So I bring this, you know experience and I know what the challenges that they are facing and how they are Overlooked by investors regionally and globally Yeah, thank you so much. Yes, and you get to see the real range of community-driven grant That's a tongue twister community driven grant Structures to a debt fund with a community advisory board component in making those investment decisions to a more convertible debt equity Having entrepreneurs and cohorts where they actually get to vote That peer selection that Reem alluded to of they are the ones actually voting of who the investment capital is going to So three very different mechanisms that they're going to have the opportunity to go More in-depth into and certainly want to invite you to share more about the particulars of your model and I want to start with Leslie and Knowing that in you know, Olamina launched as a new fund And actually the first time that Candid had ever done a fund and there's a lot of folks who maybe are any fund founders in the audience I know we got lots of different communities out here People know that when you're starting a fund, there's a lot you got to do right? There's strategy. There's legal there's team there's you know many many different elements to it and Having a community advisory board might seem to some folks like an extra, you know This extra thing that we got to build and manage and and support financially But I would say that for us as a team The idea of having a community advisory board really felt like an essential component of the model But it wasn't an add-on it was absolutely at the heart of how we were thinking about approaching US community development and I would love to hear more Leslie about Why this was such an important feature for you to develop in your leadership and then also how you've seen that evolve over time Absolutely, I think one of the other important aspects to note is that Our the investors in the fund were also fully supportive of the concept of having a community advisory board and I think that's really critical of you know having that buy-in right from the beginning and really the intention for the community advisory board was to really advise on the strategic direction of the fund participate in credit decisions and you know really Flip, you know the traditional power dynamics that we see in finance and so kind of going beyond just representation But also really having the decision-making authority And so that as you're kind of alluding to really has evolved as we've formed the community advisory board really having I think their voice be more front and center and What that's looked like is participation in our credit committee where they are involved in really influencing the The types of loans that we make as well as making the credit decisions on which loans were Approving and so really kind of that active engagement has been an important piece And it really meant a lot to us to have community advisory board members who Not only had like some had a background in finance But also having folks who did not so that it was a learning opportunity for them and something that they could bring back to their community and it was also really important for the Participants in the community advisory boards to be Have a shared lived experience of the communities where we lend So we're bringing in that perspective as we're thinking about the types of loans we're making the structure of our loans as well as who we're lending to and One of the intentions early on was that it would be kind of two people at a time would sit on the community advisory board and As we were evolving the entire community advisory board said well I want to you know be able to participate in this as well and not just kind of cycle in and out So that's I think one of the shifts that we made in from the initial design that was really brought Forward by the community advisory board members So that's something that's really been exciting to see and then we've also even shifted our legal structure So that the community advisory board can have veto authority over loan decisions and be the ones to actually Approve or decline alone without having to have like a series 65 license in you know the financial sector, so I Really appreciate the detail on the different steps and opportunities and moments for engagement and I know Often you've spoken to the importance of the broader principle of sharing power And I'm curious what are some of the steps that you've been able to take to share power in the context of the community advisory board Yeah, so I think It's interesting It was kind of like you're bringing on the community advisory board members and really kind of getting them up to speed But not wanting to seem like we're managing them or the leaders over the community advisory board so we had to be really thoughtful in how we engaged and built that relationship and So we very much see ourselves as facilitators of the work that they do and and support them in in the ways that they ask of us and And in our meetings, we're really leading with like what is their decision? What is their experience telling them and Even when we were kind of in kind of the training around them participating in a credit committee We really learned a lot from them in terms of what are the important metrics that we want to look at when we're underwriting an organization and And it was just such a dialogue that it actually even shifted some of the ways that we do our due diligence So I think that was something that was really important and also, you know As we're thinking about launching the next phase of the fund one of the things that we talked about with them early on was having You know a questionnaire for potential investors of to really kind of test values alignment and authenticity and And we're working with the community advisory board to develop that questionnaire And then they'll be the ones who will make the decisions about which investors get to invest in Olimena Fantastic. Thank you And I think that's a really important element right the idea of saying once again that it's not just about those With money automatically having the privilege to be able to take credit one of the things when I Used to have to fundraise in the nonprofit Context I used to think I'm the one who has to do all the work and you just got to write a check and put your name On all my good work You're lucky to get the opportunity to claim credit for this, right? And I think that's where we see Increasingly people saying we want to make sure that our investors that you really aligned that they're Holding themselves accountable to their values in a much broader way So appreciate that post. I want to turn the ream and back to the village capital model And pure selection. I know I first encountered village capital back in 2007 that Ville cap has been around for quite a while and was really One of the first to raise their hand to say wait a minute Maybe a different set of decision makers should be at the table I'm curious to explore more. What are the mechanics of how the peer selection process? Actually works from kind of day one in the room to when that decision is made And what some of the outcomes that you've seen since I guess it was 2009 was actually the start Yeah, as he said, we've been around for a number of years and we've tested the peer selection methodology with hundreds and hundreds of Entrepreneurs across the globe. So in principle, I mean, this is how it works So with the support of an advisory board, we also set up an advisory board for every program We intentionally select a very small cohort of entrepreneurs between 10 and 12 entrepreneurs who are Who have an innovative solution to a problem that we want to Address so once we select those entrepreneurs through a very intentional Process and here commonality of stage and Sector is critical because what we're doing Throughout the program is putting the small cohort of entrepreneurs in a room in a space for a number of hours where they're You know Assessing one another giving feedback. So they need to understand the space that they're all coming from they need to Share attributes Be very well aware of the problem that they are You know addressing the challenges that they are facing so for peer selection to work Commonality is very important and this is why the selection process is a very intentional and rigorous Process now facilitation also plays a very big role because our program managers while they're Facilitating those discussions and those sessions. They need to ensure that there's this trust that's being built You know between the entrepreneurs. It's a safe space for them to share You know information about their businesses that challenges that they are facing now throughout this process and through many hours of discussions entrepreneurs learn how to become investors and in the process they're conducting a peer due diligence on the businesses of the cohort members and We've we have a structure for that, of course And we get them to look at eight verticals within the business so they Conduct due diligence on the team the problem the solution financing markets scalability Exit opportunities that they're providing for the For the investors and throughout it's it's all about impact as well And then they rank across these verticals how those businesses in their opinion, you know, where they should be ranked and those rankings need to be of course validated with You know feedback, why do they feel that this company needs to be ranked low along that specific Vertical or they should be ranked, you know given a higher rank Now the highest ranking Companies by the end of the program ends up receiving the investment or the grant that has been allocated for that program Now what have the results been so we've been doing this as I said for many years and we've tested it on many entrepreneurs So our entrepreneurs capable of assessing the commercial commercial viability of their peers and Is the peer selection process really working, you know towards mitigating the gender bias in the investment decision-making? They the short answer to both questions is yes so We've tracked we've done a study tracking The peer selected or the ranked companies along a period of five years And we've seen very clearly that companies that receive the highest ranking Went on to generate the most revenue and to raise the most capital where the companies that you know Langt ranked the lowest, you know did not do as well and in terms of the Mitigation in the gender bias We found that women Or let's say female founders or Colad companies that are female Colad Were assessed based on the commercial or based on merit. So they were not crowded out They were fairly assessed and they received the ranking that you know is You know that goes along with the with the commercial and viability of their business Now Sorry one more minute now while the intention of the peer selection methodology was to democratize the investment decision-making and deal with that whole imbalance of power But also we had an amazing unintended outcome out of this Which is the peer learning because it's such a rigorous process and we're putting in place Entrepreneurs who have the you know all those shared attributes That feedback that is given throughout the the ranking process, which is done three times by the way It's an extremely rigorous Process and they come out so you know much more ready In terms of you know being investor ready To talk with investors and they're in a much better position So even if there's no financial element or an investment attached to that program They're still very excited to take part in our programs because of that peer that whole peer selection and peer learning component of our program It's amazing with that level of intentionality and with groups that tend to be 10 to 12 entrepreneurs that that is Very strong intention at a very specific scale and yet milk half is all over the world Right has a cheap tremendous scale in its model and curious how you balance that element of real depth Whether that's in a geographic area or in a topical area and the idea of scale and how you think about scaling the model Yeah, I mean The whole that the way we design our programs is we start with a problem statement, right? So we start with the problem and then we Recruit the entrepreneurs who have developed the solutions to be able to address that problem So it is very much a place-based, you know Design for for any program. So and that's why we've been able to do it all over the world successfully because we Selected geography or you know and and and you know assess what type of Issue that we want to address here and then recruit the entrepreneurs accordingly, but then as I said I mean this is a very hands-on process and it requires very careful Facilitation and a very rigorous selection process Extremely hands-on and the use of tools that we've developed. So how can we as an organization, you know running? Acceleration programs for you know a very small cohort Scale all of this so four years ago We started to think you know critically about this and we've developed tools to be able to also support Entrepreneur support organizations because they're the ones on the ground They know what the local issues are because we're designing the programs to address specific problems So they're there as you know you do with your fund as well. So they're there They understand what the issues are so we've developed programs to build their capacities their value proposition To devise a strategy. How can they best serve the the local community and the entrepreneurs? And help, you know advanced solutions for the challenges that they are facing as well And we also work with them to support the entrepreneurs that they're supporting and Also because we're using all these amazing tools Of course the use of technology is going to be very important when it comes to scaling solutions. So All of our tools are Embedded into our online product abaca So all those diagnostics tools that I I mentioned are there and so that helps with the scaling as well Thank you. I'm excited to turn to Esperanza with I Have a practical question and I have a philosophical question And the practical question is just to explain more about how your participatory model works But the other piece that I recognize that from the beginning we've kind of taken for granted the concept that This creates better outcomes right the idea that this is this is driving towards something important for those of us who Care about social justice And I want to unpack that assumption a little bit and how do you think about what success means in the context of a participatory model? Thank you. Yeah, so We're communications fund which means our grant making is really driven towards supporting communication strategies Which is a really broad spectrum of strategies We provide grants we provide technical assistance coaching through third-party providers and we provide a lot of connectivity Communications is a primary tool of organizers. So as I mentioned before we are movement led So that's really important to us when we're thinking about where are we going? What do we want to see happen in this world? We are Working towards systemic change through the lens of agriculture and food systems So we know that we you know, we have a shared vision And we're always looking at how are we driving that? How are we lifting up narratives? How are we putting out a counter narrative where the where are the various ways that we can make that happen? And how do we strengthen our ability to be unified to be coordinating and to strengthen those organizers? So that's really the premise of our fund first, you know Um, so To be effective in that particularly around the unification and coordination That's really important. That is partly why this is a participatory process to make sure that we're having strong impact And we're actually working with the movement leaders who either some of our are grantee partners of ours They're communication strategist and their folks who just have years on the ground and know what it takes They also have reach very much what what Reem had mentioned around play space. We're national and Having the kind of reach that you need in those spaces, you know to lift up frontline narratives is tough You know to get in there so having a participatory process enables more connectivity immediately within the community to make that happen So that is very important to us Our process to do that is we have six community advisory members like I mentioned they they have this expertise that they bring into it and Collective bodies entire because their organizers they often have whole networks that are familiar with the work And we have they're actually involved our Trajectory as a fund started as a funder collaborative. So we actually were funder driven Was funders who knew that this was a need communication support and grant making was a need in our community Came together, but they noticed immediately that they were not having the kind of impact They were not seeing that the portfolio grow in the way that they wanted or that they they themselves did not have the reach Into the communities that they wanted to be supporting. So that is where this process started opening up They started bringing in bringing in community members Staffing and then it has taken us. I would say it's taken us four years to get to where we are now So initially initially we started as a community advisory group at least that that part of the work That was providing guidance and recommendations to Our board and then the board of funders would have final decision-making power And so, you know when I came on board as he did it was really important to me that we be in true alignment with our intention And so we actually seeded decision-making power to our community advisory board and that was significant that really demonstrated Trust and it demonstrated our commitment to this process I also opened up our board so that it was not funder only and we brought the long-time community advisory Board members into our board so that we are now co-governed in that regard and that became more of a Subcommittee our community advisory board became a Subcommittee where we could also foster deeper connection and bring people into to serve that Purpose but maintain community involvement in the strategic direction of our fund. So these are all our deeper ways We see those as measures of success. So when we now when we look to community processes We actually looked to see how much trust has been Built between those are holding power and those who are influencing power How much invitation is there to actually be an active member of the structure? we really look for power sharing and We look in our own portfolio. We look for where there's connectivity Where we are coordinating between people where there's strength happening between organizers in different regions across the nation where that is showing up again in The different media platforms that we're accessing the narratives that are being lifted up from that work. That's really important In some cases, we're looking at the success of the projects themselves. I think black farmer fund is a really good example of that And though the immediate success that they've had in their work is just it has to do with how deeply embedded They are in the reach that they're having and all of the support that they're receiving throughout the community So that's unification coordination. It's that's a heavy lift of a lot of people making it happen It's a good reminder, you know, and I think about words like advisory or participation Sometimes advisory implies I'm outside of this thing and I give input like and then that input may or may not be received I might advise my partner to take out the trash and then I'm gonna come home tonight and find out what happened or did Right, and I think it's an interesting question and thinking through is there a difference between participatory design and community controlled capital And for people who may have had maybe an advisory board in the past But that didn't quite get to the level of participating in the governance or participating in the control of capital How do you kind of take that leap from kind of advisory to more participatory? Yes So advisory to participatory to community controlled those are all yeah, that's all a transition They are distinct processes and sometimes we have you know our initial structures of funds and and projects are In such a way that it would be Hard to just become community controlled right that takes time to be able to hand over because that really means the Administrators everyone who's making the decision along the way is within communities embedded within community They are community members who are driving their own solutions and therefore have the best information firsthand information As you were saying earlier about who holds the gold. They are the gold And so that that's really community controlled. It's about lifting up that that Structure but you know for those of us out here where we are not really We're not gonna community controlled in that regard actually we are a donor advice fund We have an administrator. That's a community foundation and then we have this Amazing structure embedded within that and I think our role in that universe is really important because it demonstrates How feasible it is even within that kind of a structure within a community foundation that doesn't have a participatory process itself They're enabling us to model this and Influence we we definitely see ourselves as movement We are funders as movement partners and that affects how we you know Look at each aspect of the work that we're doing our program development how we work with the community advisory committee But we also are out here helping other providing technical assistance to other funders to actually transition them to Participatory models in the hope of shifting that power in a bigger way Getting funders in the room with community members so that they can understand each other's language each other's Hope streams and sometimes limitations So that is part of our work and I think that's you know often we actually started as advisory first They were informing and making recommendations But we were able to grow it into you know seeding now for the last two years It's been 90% of our grant capital to our community advisory committee So I think that's significant for us to grow in that way That's remarkable. Yeah to have 90% of capital ultimately transferring through community I have two questions here from the audience and that means that if there are more folks with questions Don't be shy because we might actually get to get to answer them I see that we do have a few more here that I can take a look at So I want to invite everyone to share where are you seeing the most friction in Your processes or when you might have seen challenge whether you're able to work through or around or just have to acknowledge It being there and the flip side of that or what are sudden the wins where you know Sometimes they say when we when we move together we move slower, but we go further right that that's sometimes going through That process and that friction can ultimately create great outcomes So a point of friction and a and a point of victory that you might want to share through your model Maybe I can start yeah, I guess the friction is if we're not very careful about The cohort members that we select so this can give rise to a whole host of issues, right? So and then because we are setting up a program to address a specific problem We need to be able to find the right type of entrepreneurs who have developed an innovative solution to be able to address that Problem so sometimes it might take so it take us a bit longer You know the the whole recruitment process of the of cohort members to be able to find the right type of Entrepreneurs who can be put together in a room and have that candid discussion And then build that trust Between them definitely so it's mainly the selection process and then carefully also facilitating that session to ensure that You know, we build that trust factor within within during the program as well And also when we're selecting the companies we need to make sure that we're not for example Selecting two companies that are competitors, right? Because this will inhibit their ability to be able to share and give feedback So it's an extremely extremely intentional Process and very, you know for it to work that that whole setup facilitation and selection process Has to be very carefully curated so that poses a you know friction definitely Yeah, I think I would You know echo a lot of those thoughts as well in terms of how we were even building the community advisory board we Really wanted movement leaders to be the ones who selected The participants in our community advisory board. I mean it'd be easy for us to say oh, I know this person I think they'd be really great to be on the board I love their background and the you know the perspective they bring But we really you know because we put it out to such a wide group and folks who are not part of our organization not embedded In our in our work were the ones saying from my movement oriented lens This is who I think should be on the board to really influence the direction of the fund You know, we definitely have a diverse background of folks in our community advisory board And so you know when we're thinking about how we're setting the priorities for the fund and Who we're going to lend to You know, we can have a wide range, you know of perspectives on that in the fund and you know from folks who you know May have a more traditional lens and finance to folks who are like that's not catalytic enough You know, we need to go deeper and so it's really you know, how do we kind of build? Consent we have a consent based decision model so that you know for us that allows everyone to bring their Voice forward and not feel like I have to succumb to saying yes or no and so So it's been really interesting and I think you know part of the win is that they've really learned from each other and Really been able to see like the different Perspectives and ways of evaluating How we want to shape our investments and who we're investing in when we're Identifying potential investment opportunities it first goes through the community advisory board to say, you know Yes, I would like to see you move forward into the next stage of of underwriting and then we have a pre-screen Evaluation where they specifically evaluate based on impact and then the community advisory board it would and the other credit committee members Then say yes, let's go into full underwriting. So really there's all of these different Stages where they're actually giving us kind of that go-no-go decision and it's really kind of facilitating those critical Conversations to make that decision about how do we move forward and you know And then that has actually led us to the place where every loan that we've put forward to the credit committee Has been approved and I think that has a lot to do with you know that deep thought and facilitated conversation on the front end with the community advisory board and They have actually at this stage Set the priority for the you know Eight loans that we made earlier in the fund and since they've been on the credit committee have approved nine loans which totals to over 24 million in about 60 percent of The oh just over 40 million that olamina has allocated And I think it's a really great point that Leslie raises that oftentimes when people are asked for their Participation or to give an opinion on something It's at the 11th hour of approve this or don't approve this and it can feel really hard to stop a train That's in motion and the idea of having the very first screen go through the committee Right to be able to say let's make sure that we're getting that input nice and early an Opportunity to weigh in on what are the questions that even need to be asked right because often the the thing about impact is that It's what you're asking or not asking that makes such a big difference And do you even know what to ask depending on the needs of that particular community? So having that input both at the beginning and then at the end and kind of creates that comprehensive element so just to think about in your participatory structures if you're just asking for that feedback at the End it can be really difficult for people to feel like they have full agency to be able to contribute their ideas I want to make sure for a Esperanza to be able to chime in there. Thank you Yeah, a friction and a win for me is actually the the same thing which is The friction sometimes is as executive director, you know, we have seated that that decision-making and so to stay true to it Sometimes I'm sitting on the side going put but strategically, but if we did it this way, but if you So that's and that's hard. That's a friction for me to step back and really appreciate the process and And then the win is that we have such engaged folks that if I have curiosities around that If I have a need I can actually just ask them I can ask them one-on-one I really tap into the advisory aspect of what they offer because it's an amazing resource And so I can speak to people one-on-one. We can have you know in our group process Make sure there's questions to address it and so to me that's a win to have such a great resource But it is it is tough sometimes It's fantastic and thinking about that as a learning opportunity and then I think also sometimes in that structure of It can be hard to have that humility to say, okay I have my opinion which is different But maybe there's a good reason to not prioritize my opinion in this moment and to trust this process And that that might mean maybe I need to kind of sit with my my feeling about that, right? I have a right to my feelings, but I'm gonna Kind of remind myself What's the outcome that we're trying to achieve through this process and what can I really learn from this moment? Both in terms of my own reaction and in terms of the information being offered We have a couple questions here But I really love thank you community That are about the experience of the community members that join these community advisory boards That some as Leslie had alluded to you know may have not interacted with financial terms as much Someone had written here, you know people who may come from different educational backgrounds How do you help create as safe of an environment as possible for people to feel? Comfortable coming in and then also another question. I really love here. Thank you whoever you are What might community members perceive as risks to their participation? And how do you mitigate those risks, right? They're now putting their name On this project, you know What are the ways that they need to think about the risks or that you as organizers might think about the risks that attribute to community members? You know what I'll kick off that one in terms of the the risk part Because we are working with movement leaders and organizers who are folks used to taking on, you know power They don't hesitate at all to let us know if They let us know So, you know, we have not run into a situation where we've been at you know in a big risk But I do I do think that for instance some of the resource or advisory boards that I participated Folks are selected for their ability to speak to that so that they can help steer out of out of risk Or at least know very well why you're taking on that risk So that's been that experience and the other question about how to help support folks So we intentionally bring folks on who may not have had that experience because they have this wealth of information That we're actually trying to infuse into our work, which may not be about how to you know grant allocations and strategic directions grant programs We are just really open and welcoming to them we offer technical list our work we try to Stay true to our intention around how we provide training throughout so whether it's internally we take you know Bias trainings together. We do things together to help coach and get us on the same page around what we're doing And are just really supportive understanding and I think You know the bottom line for us is love we love our community that we're doing this together for a reason And so I think that really is threaded through our practices Yeah, I'm not sure if this applies to us in terms of the community participation part But maybe I can comment a bit about the advisory board that we set up for the for the programs They do I mean we're very intentional also about that makeup that includes individuals from you know, the local the local ecosystem Local players who understand the challenges and then also players from the global ecosystem as well who are who have the sector Expertise but are very keen Also to learn about what are the emergent, you know problems and what are the innovative solutions that are Taking place in those localities. So I think from a learning perspective it's been extremely rewarding for the advisory board members Many of them bring a lot of technical Know how to the table, but also they they absorb a lot in the process as well in terms of what's happening on the ground Yeah, I also really appreciate this question You know, it's really interesting. I think when we really started kind of seeing Differences and experiences for the community advisory board members is when they actually started moving towards participating in the credit committee and You know and and what we we intentionally went through like a training to kind of step through kind of how we move through our process and typically what we prioritize and brought in another Community movement leader in the finance sector to kind of help and provide some guidance and input and It was really funny the person who comes from Who has a finance background kept asking like well, what's the credit box? Like how do I make a decision about yes or no? We're like we're trying to break that model, you know, and everything is really on an individual level and evaluation And so, you know, here's really what what we're hoping to achieve by making these loans and you know And here's how we're kind of moving away from this, you know preconceived notion of risk and so there was a lot of unlearning for her to have to do And then I would say, you know on the other end of the spectrum from somebody who comes from a community where there was just such a lack of access to finance and And and you know in capital and just really kind of understanding the system and how that works, you know, it was just really You know more curious and I think felt a little intimidated at first and so as a team we were able to kind of Talk through like what one of what one of the credit memos were like and really explain like here's what we look at Here's why we're evaluating this and it really helped her feel more comfortable with bringing her voice forward And I think the other part of it to create like a safe and comfortable space for them is in this two-step process Where we start off with this pre-screen memo. I think particularly for the first one We had folks provide comments in the document themselves and on the first one We were really intentional because founding partners of Candide are also participating in the credit committee as the managing members of the fund And so we asked them, you know, Morgan and in there to not put their comments in first So that the community advisory board members, you know, didn't feel like intimidated by what they were seeing and When we had our first full credit committee meeting which included Morgan and in there, you know really kind of did a lot of level setting in that space and we're really intentional about bringing their voices forward and And so it's just it's really been I think a nice collaborative effort for them to like fill the strength and what they had to say and The hardcore movement leaders to your point really did not have any issue with bringing forward like their ideas and thoughts so Okay, I I'm gonna ask two more questions and I want this first one to anyone who's super inspired to answer It's a go ahead and jump in but it's another great question If you can speak to how your community advisory board or structure influence how returns were perceived and defined and I can think about that question quite broadly. There's returns to investors. There's returns to community There's returns to the people involved of how is it shifted your frame perhaps about returns? say that So I came out the gate wanting data to you know, I entered in when we had a 10-year portfolio And I was like, okay, what have we been doing, you know, I'm type take it over this also Honestly, have we been trash or are we doing the right work? I mean, I was just as ready to you know If we have I'm all about transparency and what difference can we make? We have not been we've done a great job. I was really excited to see after 10 years, you know So much impact, but I often have those questions And when I bring that to the community advisory, I think I get a bit of a pushback around how I'm thinking about data what I'm thinking, you know, it's because it's There it has roots and extractive models of thinking and being and doing with community and so I appreciate that pushback and I think that it's really made me look at other aspects of our relational aspect and how those relationships the connectivity is strengthening the work that we do so it's really shifted my thinking into That and how you know, how do we then define are there measures or how do we look at it differently? So I have been working at that and moving away from You know using an impact measure type modeling. I'll give one example There's a group called the right relations collaborative and this year. They had a The collaborative is through a native community. They have an advisory board. That's their auntie's council That works with impact investor and the impact investor came in wanting to create an impact report And they got same similar pushback So instead of doing an impact report, they actually created a reciprocity report and I just thought that was a brilliant concept and I think that demonstrated that shift to relational thinking and so now I've been looking at okay How do we what's a hybrid model? How do we so I think to answer the question? I think that is my shift in terms of return. I Love that in terms of just the openness to saying you can let that process Transform your own way of showing up in leadership and what it means in your role and that that takes a lot of openness and encourage So thank you for sharing that Yeah, I mean, I think in our case of a loan fund I would look at Return in a couple of ways one when we're really evaluating the financial strength of an organization it's really their ability to cover the debt service as well as their ability to repay the loan and So I think to the other person's question, which I didn't fully touch on about the risk That is the risk, you know If one of our community if our community advisory board credit committee is like we love the impact of this But you know at the end of the day The organization is really not able to absorb that debt service then that's detrimental to them So that's something we need to be critical in our evaluation of and their ability to repay the loan What impact does that have on the fund as you know, particularly as is a fund that you know We're trying to demonstrate the power of them making these types of investments if all of a sudden We're showing that folks aren't really able to do this and we're you know financially not able to sustain the fund That's a big part for us. I think to this other question of Like where has a shift been? You know, we were designed early on where our only revenue source is the Interest income that we make so basically the margin that we make off the cost of our capital Which was low to begin with thankfully And so, you know and as we were kind of moving further into the fund and a lot of the community advisory board members We're like we need to invest in like these types of initiatives which really I mean need true Patient low-cost capital and we had to really you know, take a look at how can we still sustain ourselves as a startup emerging fund? Financially while, you know, we're trying to make these really deep impactful loans and so For us as we're now entering into the second phase of the fund We're really rethinking our financial model and our revenue model and seeing how Hopefully, you know, we can kind of I don't like the word subsidized But it's like, you know say to investors maybe a hundred percent isn't the right expectation to have when you're doing this work You know, what if you got 80% that you know and so that we can use You know that that extra buffer to really do the type of investments that we know we need to make It's a great reminder that often when we're saying returns The money comes from someone to someone right and what's the The wealth division between those two parties who is in a position To absorb that and being really transparent and thoughtful about it being a critical component I'm gonna invite everyone to take a minute on one final question I'm gonna just make an assumption that everyone is Inspired to go back to their organizations and think through how can I bring a more participatory model to what I'm doing? Whether that's actually through community controlled capital or as we talked about kind of working away Up a spectrum of advisory to Participatory to community control and what are kind of the readiness phases that each of those right to be able to think about that? Transition what is a thought or a question that you might invite people to take back home? To think about what their next step could be on that journey That may be a thought to leave you with so we have I mean we have so many, you know Problems arising environmental social economic and they're all place-based Problems and there are place-based solutions out there, but however, unfortunately people who are you know coming up with these innovative Solutions are not being heard. They're not being you know I Consulted they're not part of any Process and they're completely overlooked. So how can we all of us as organizations make sure that we reach those People with the innovative solutions who are on the ground understand what the problems are and have developed those solutions And we're able through you know our work to be able to reach them and provide them with all the necessary resources be it capital or social Financial or social capital to help them address those problems Yeah, I think this is really making me think of an example that we were talking about at lunch with Candid's impact team Starchy being in the room as well We just had our first impact report that was launched and I come from organizations where we say like These are our goals. This is the impact that we believe needs to happen to like see improvement in communities and And to build wealth and as we were going through this process We really kind of shifted that model and said well, what does impact look like for you? What are your goals? How do you measure success and how can we help you and be in support of that? And so that's really what our impact report has turned into of like, okay What were the goals of the companies and how how are they and like achieving that? So we're not saying this is what we think impact means and so I think that's really kind of the thought of like You know what's guiding? I think your assumptions and in decisions I mean, I think so often we see that we're kind of coming into community saying this is how we think it needs to be This is how we think, you know You know, you can have like these types of solutions will work for you It's really more listening to community first to guide your actions and decisions and structures and strategies Yeah, I would say that actually We have ample opportunity each day to practice collective collective process every time We're on one of those calls and we're asking Questions and we get crickets back Sometimes it's often, you know the question you ask is the outcome, you know that you achieve It's often just the nature of the question and if we break them down into bite-sized pieces and really solicit Responses from people. It's you know all the way down to rather than what do you think? Do you have any questions? You can ask everyone what's one thing you agree with what's one thing you don't agree with? What's you know, how do you feel about this particular thing each time we do that? We are creating a collective process and we're providing an opportunity to listen as much as for someone to express them Cells and it's an opportunity to listen and to demonstrate you really do want to hear what they have to say And the more we build that in to everyday processes I think the more benefit we reap from Being able to have benefit from all the perspective that's coming into the work And to have more balanced thinking in what we're doing. So I would say we have ample opportunity to practice that collective Creating collective space and that that is those tools are very much the tools that translate into participatory processes