 I'm Josh Gelach and you're sitting in getting started for local SEO. Oh, is it? Okay. Do we have a mic? No. You're good up there? You're good. You guys saying you can't hear me? Can you guys hear me over there? Okay, okay. All right. I'll try to talk loud then so you guys can all hear me. Sorry about that. So I guess everybody's from the area. I'm actually from Pennsylvania. Just got down here yesterday. Brought my family with me, sitting up here in the front. I think these are the only two kids at today's World Camp. We're really enjoying our time at Raleigh. We had barbecue last night, first time. So it was really cool. We're really happy to be here. But anyway, you guys aren't here to hear about barbecue. You're about local SEO. So I guess I'll say a little bit about myself. I won't spend too much time because I don't like doing intros. But I've done SEO for a while now. A little over six years. I spent a little over 16 at T-Mobile doing SEO there and Content Strategy. In 2014, I started my own business, Expander Digital. And I've been doing that ever since. I am an SEO director at an agency up in Pennsylvania. And I manage about 92 to 94 clients that are doing local SEO. So a lot of clients that are really trying to rank in some of the areas that we're going to talk about today. So I guess that's all we're really sure about that. Thank you. But that's a little bit about me. Let's jump in. So if you're tweeting today, hopefully you are. Hopefully you're tweeting about the World Camp. If you are in this talk and you want to tweet, you can mention us at Expander Digital. That'd be cool. I'll have this slide at the end, too. But if you guys enjoy today's talk, you like this slide, you want to go back to them. You can download them at this URL. You'll find the slides from today. You'll find resources that we'll be talking about today. There's a couple of different tools I'm going to go over. And then you'll find my contact information. So if you have any questions about anything that we reviewed today, you can just email me and I'll be happy to help you out. But again, that slide's going to be at the end. So if you don't get it now, you'll be able to get it later on. So what is local SEO? I guess I thought this would be a good place to start because I think a lot of people have heard about SEO. But what is local SEO? So let's jump in here. So SEO is just generally speaking the process of improving your website's rank or web pages on your website, improving their rank. Local SEO is really about improving your website's rank in local search results. That's really all it is. That's simple. You see here I put a picture of my phone, which I have a pixel. So that's what you see in there, Android. Sorry, Apple people, no offense. But the reason I put this here is because local and mobile kind of go hand in hand. Usually when people are searching locally, they're on their phone. So I thought it would be good to kind of start here and show you what I mean by local search results. So right here we have the local organic pack, which is really the top of the three right here that you're seeing the results here. So I did a coffee shops near me search up in my area. And so this is what we call the local pack, the top three organic results. And the other side of it are local search results. And this little arrow right here is the bottom of the local pack. This is basically right below those top three. You see here I still have some localized results. So I live in Bethlehem, we're close to it. So you see there's a result there. I live in the Lehigh Valley, so there's a result here for that. So when you're talking about local SEO, it's about improving your presence in either local pack or local search results. And I thought that would just be a great place for us to start and just make sure that we're all on the same page for the definition of what local SEO is. So real quick, before I get into this, who in here is a local business owner? You own a business with a storefront, no? Okay, I'm going to say yes because he's coming into the storefront. Alright, cool. And then maybe who in here has clients who have storefronts? Okay, cool, cool. So this is if you're thinking about maybe having a conversation with your clients about local SEO and maybe kind of doing some of these things, probably going to be a question that you're going to be asked is why should I care about it, right? SEO in general is not a field of guarantees, right? So there's a lot of coulds here. So I'll just put that out there. It could increase your website traffic, right? Especially from local searchers. And that really could lead to more sales, more revenue, more traffic, right? If I look for something online, I go to a store that I found through search and I had a good experience. There's a chance I'll tell someone about that. So you could have more referrals, more traffic coming to your storefront and ultimately more revenue for your bottom line. That's kind of how maybe you could approach it with your clients and why you should care about it. So we talked about the local PAC and we talked about the local search results. This is where I think the question I get asked the most, right, is how do I get there? And this is where we're going to spend most of our time. So I'm going to talk about three tactics. Again, this is an introductory talk so I'm not going to get too into the weeds here. Hopefully I'll have some time for Q&A at the end if you have some more detailed questions but you can find me after the talk as well. I'm happy to sit down and talk with you about any specific strategies but for today's talk I'm going to talk about three things. We're just going to jump right in to claiming your online listings. It's free, right? So the listings I'm going to talk about here, it's always free. Nothing here is going to be a paid service. I think we'll start here with some of the local search engines that are out there. So there's four I've listed here. There are others out there. So these are not the only ones. But there's Google My Business, Yelp, Apple Maps, and TripAdvisor. Those are the four that I've chosen for this talk just to kind of keep at high level. And what do I mean by use websites that make sense for your business? For me, I don't have a brick and mortar location, right? My business is an online business. I meet with people at Starbucks or some local coffee shop. So I don't have a storefront. For me, having a listing on TripAdvisor doesn't make a lot of sense, right? Nobody's going to come to Lehigh Valley and visit me first of all because I'm an agency, right? It doesn't make sense. But I don't have a brick and mortar location. So one of the things you want to do is before you start going out and claiming all these listings and all these different websites, pause for a minute and say to yourself, where does it make sense for my business to be? Good general rule of thumb is Google My Business, right? I have a Google My Business because it makes sense for my agency. But this doesn't mean it works for everybody, right? If you have a storefront, for example, if you have a restaurant, it would probably make sense for you to be on Google My Business, probably Yelp, probably Apple Maps, and probably TripAdvisor. So it depends, right? Some businesses makes a lot of sense for you to be on all four. Some businesses not so much. It just depends on what you do or what your client does. So definitely go out and claim those or sit down with them. Now, it can take some time setting these up. You heard Bridget talk about, if you were in the keynote, you heard her talk about things taking longer than maybe you think. So it does take some time to set these up. So just be mindful of that when you're helping your clients out or if you're setting it up for yourself. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, I do. There we go. Oh, sweet. Can you guys hear me? Oh, maybe I should move this up. Can you guys hear me? Okay. Is that better? Excellent. Excellent. Cool. So that's the first tactic that I think you should take. Any local business should take to improve their local SEO. Second tactic we're going to talk about is using structured data. Is anybody in here familiar with structured data? Okay, not too many hands, but some people. Cool. This is probably going to be where we spend some time because it's kind of a newer thing it sounds like to most of you. So again, what is it? What is structured data? And I love Google's definition because I think it's really fitting. Structured data is a standardized format for providing information about a page. So what does that mean though? It's kind of vague. Let's kind of show you what it actually means. And so you can see some examples. Before we get to the example though, there's a couple of different formats that are out there for structured data. There's micro format, there's JSON-LD. Google supports both, but they do recommend JSON-LD. So just keep that in mind. We're going to go over the JSON-LD example. We're going to go with micro data today. If you want to grab me afterwards, we could talk about that. But today we're just going to talk about JSON-LD, which is right here. So this is the JSON-LD code or the markup that you see over here. And this is just an example pulled right off of Google's website, the Structured Data Search Gallery. And this is just a real simple JSON-LD snippet. And you can see a couple of different things going on. Obviously you see that it's a JSON-LD script. And you can see some of the information here is about the business. So you have the business name. This is obviously a fictitious company, but you see the phone number listed there and some other information. And we'll get to that. That'll make a little bit more sense in a few slides. I'll kind of show you how you can start plugging your client's business information into that format, so we'll get there. But for local businesses, you're going to want to use local business structured data. And there's a couple of different formats out there. When it comes to structured data, you can use structured data for breadcrumbs. You can use structured data for blogs. Lots of different applications. But for local businesses, you're going to want to, or for local businesses, you're going to want to use local business structured data. And so why would you want to do that, though? If you use local business structured data, it could result in a knowledge graph card with details about the business if it matched the query. So what does that mean? This is what could happen. So you see here I typed in Taylor Roasted Coffee House, which is a coffee house up near me. I'm there multiple times a week. I sit down and do work, like probably many of you working out of a coffee shop. But when you put local business structured data onto the website, this is what the result could be. And so we have a nice, rich snippet here, or a rich card, I guess I should say, where you see information about the business. You see an option to call them, directions, their website. You see their address listed right here. And so this is what Google's talking about when it says, if you do that, this could be the result. So how do you get structured data onto your website? There's a couple of different options. You go with a free option, which we're going to cover here. There are premium options as well. Obviously, if you pay, you get support. So if you need help, that's an option for you. The free option we're going to talk about in this talk is Google Tag Manager. You could use Google Tag Manager. You could use something from the repository as well. There are a couple of different plugins out there that will let you implement structured data pretty easily. But we're going to talk about using Google Tag Manager because I think there are a lot of benefits to it. We'll talk about that. So Tag Manager, this is how Google defines it, or promotes it. It lets you add tags to your website for conversion tracking, for site analytics, for remarketing, and a whole bunch of different applications. So the reason I like using Tag Manager is because, for example, with a plugin, or if I'm using a structured data plugin, it's a very specific application. If I use Google Tag Manager, I can let a client do a lot of different things with marketing, or digital marketing, I guess I should say. We can deploy conversion tracking if they're using AdWords, if they're using Twitter ads. We can do Google Analytics through Tag Manager, do remarketing through it. So there's a lot of different applications, and that's why I like using Tag Manager. So has anybody in here ever used Tag Manager before? Okay, not too many hands. All right, well, it's a Google tool. It's free. This is the interface. You see that this is my website, so this is what you're going to see if you were to log in. Again, free tool, you just sign up, you log in, and this is what you'll see. And over here, you see the menu. We're going to focus really on the tags. And so if I were to click on tags, these are all the tags that are on my website, and you see a couple of different things going on here. Like I said, I got talked about before. You can do a lot of different things with it. There's AdWords going on here. There's Bing ads. There's a Twitter pixel. I have Google Analytics event tracking going on here. And this is the one that we're going to focus on right here. The custom HTML tag for local business structure data. So when you go into Tag Manager, you're going to see options for a lot of different tags. What we're going to use is a custom HTML tag. And this is what it looks like. So all I've done here, and I'm not going to go through it because I didn't go through it. I didn't add the screenshots for this presentation. But all I did was I clicked on tags, and you just click on new. You select custom HTML, and this is what you'll see. And to kind of break this down, I'll go from the top to the bottom because of the lot of different tags that I have. I sort of have a naming convention here. You can do that too if you have a lot of different tags. So for me, it's what kind of tag is it? So it could be like if I have a Google Analytics tag and I put GA at the beginning. Where does it live? So if it's only on my contact us page, I'll put like contact page. If it's on all pages, I'll put all pages. For local business structured data, you're going to put it on all pages. And then what's in the tag? So maybe it's a conversion pixel or conversion tracking. For this, it's local business structured data. And you see here, I just kind of going back to the example that Google, we looked at Google example earlier. Going back to that, I've plugged in my information. You see my business name is here. My logo, the URL for my logo, my URL, my telephone number, the hours that I'm open. So this is going to tell Google all that information hopefully that we get that card. Going back to that knowledge graph card. And so this is how you would set up structured data using tag manager on your website. And once you have tag manager on the website, and I've specified it here, that it'll go on all the pages. So basically, I don't have to go into every single page or I don't have to configure a plugin. I've set tag manager up on my website. Tag manager is going to do the work for me. It's going to put this code on all my pages. And that's what we want. So that's the free option for tag manager. Again, I didn't see a lot of hands come up if you've used it before. If you are unfamiliar with this, you're unfamiliar with tag manager, you want to get some help setting it up. I'm happy to help you out after the talk. And we can go through it together if you want. That'd be fine. But that's the free option. The other option you could do is local SEO by WordPress, or local SEO for WordPress by Yoast. That is a local SEO plugin. It's a premium plugin. So there's a cost associated with it. There are others out there. I think Schema app is another one. That's a premium plugin. But these will be the options that you could use if you want support or you need someone to help you with it. Definitely an option for you as well. This is just a quick screenshot of what the local SEO for WordPress plugin looks like. You see, there's a lot of fields here. Really just kind of where you would be able to put in the business information. And then Yoast kind of does the legwork for you, does the heavy lifting for you. So the benefit to that plugin is it makes it easy to deploy on-page NAP, which we'll get to in a second. That means name, address, and phone number. We'll get to that. But it really makes it easy to put out structured data on your page, on your website. So it's really easy to do that if you go that route. But that's it for all the paid stuff. Again, I use the free option. I would encourage you guys to use the free option. But premium options are out there for you. So a couple of pro tips. Your structured data should always match your on-page copy. So phone numbers shouldn't be different. The name of your business shouldn't be different. Whatever you have on your website that users can see, that's what should be in your JSON-LD structured data. So definitely keep that in mind. You can use a structured data builder, like Merkel's schema markup generator. So if you don't, obviously we kind of went through that code pretty quickly. But if you're looking at it and you're like, that's a lot of information. I don't really know if I'm going to do that right. There's a lot that you could mess up. True story, you could mess it up. And we'll get to that in a second. But you can use tools to build the structured data and save yourself some time. So what does that look like? So this is the actual, this is a screenshot of the builder I just mentioned. And you can see here there's a couple of different things that you can do. Obviously I have local business here, but there are other forms of structured data. You can use this tool to build other pieces as well. But you see I've selected local business. And basically you just fill in the information here on the left. And what this tool will do is it will generate the code on the right. And so that kind of saves you time. It formats it the right way. And what you can even do, you see this little option right here for validate, which will be my next tip. Use Google's structured data testing tool to make sure that you got it right. So I'm going to go back here. When you build your markup, when you've finished all this and you get the code over here, just click on validate. And it will take you to Google's structured data testing tool. And you can see if you got it right. Google will tell you, it will tell you if there's a warning, it will tell you if there's an error. And you can go back and correct it. It will even actually drop you down into the code, into the snippet, onto that line and show you where the error is. So if you're, you know, you don't have to worry about saying, oh, what if I got it right? What if I got it wrong? Definitely validate it. Check it to make sure it's good before you launch it. And this is what the testing tool looks like. So you see my code is over here. And this is straight from my website. And then the readout, or the output, if you will, is over here. So you just drop in your URL, click validate, and then you'll see this, this particular screen, screenshot, but you'll see this on the, on the actual testing tool itself. And I guess you see two warnings here, because I don't have an address listed on mine, because I don't have a brick and mortar location. So that's why I'm getting a warning. But if I were to click on this, it would actually drop me down into the section where there's an option to put an address. So that's structured data. I know that's, for those of you who have never worked with it before, probably a ton of information. So I apologize for that data dump. So I mentioned NAP, which is name, address, and phone number. And for local businesses, this is really important, because it sends signals to Google about information regarding your local business on your website. So you want to make sure you put this information on your website. If it's applicable. Again, for someone like me, probably not so applicable because I don't have a brick and mortar location. So where you should put it is important as well. And so when I'm working with my clients, I recommend that you have NAP on the Contact Us page and in the footer. Now, there are a couple of rules about that, or I guess best practices. If you have a lot of locations, right? Obviously you want to put every location in the footer. But generally speaking, for your mom-and-pop shops, for like restaurants, for example, with like five locations or less, you can put it in the footer and that's fine. And you want to make sure you put that information on the Contact Us page as well. So this tip is going to kind of go back to the listings, right? Which was the first tip, clean your online listings. Whatever you have on your website for address, for phone number, and your name, obviously, you want to make sure that that lines up your listings as well. If it doesn't line up, you're sending conflicting signals to Google about your business. For example, if my website says one address, but my listings say another, Google's going to be confused by that, right? So you want to make sure that all across the web, your information is consistent. So those are the tactics I wanted to kind of talk about today. So again, claiming your online listings, using structured data, and making sure your NAP data and your name, address, and phone number is on your website and is consistent across the web. I'm going to talk a little bit about measuring your efforts, because obviously, this is a lot of work. And if you're going to go out and do it, or you're going to try and encourage your clients to do it, you're going to want to measure your efforts. And so we'll talk a little bit about that. So I would recommend doing a monthly check-in for your claimed listings. So if you register, for example, for Google My Business, Login, you can see information about that. Yelp and TripAdvisor are very similar as well. So check-in, make sure your information is right there. You're going to want to focus on metrics that matter. So your rank, very important. Obviously we want to try and get to that local pack or rank in local search results. Ratings are going to be really important. So on the listings pages, and maybe you've already seen this, right? The ratings are out there. I actually use ratings to determine where we're going to eat. I mean, we were in a barbecue place last night, came down to which one had better ratings. So definitely want to make sure that you are looking and paying attention to your ratings. And then traffic. So these are the three metrics I would encourage you to focus on and use to measure some kind of local SEO campaign or project. So when it comes to rank, you can use something like bright locals, local search checker. This is a tool that you can just, you can search bright local search checker, and you will see it. It's a free tool. And basically what it does is it mimics your location, or I guess it mimics a different location, better way to put it, for you from wherever you are. And you can see search results in Alaska, or in Florida, and you can see what's ranking. So that's going to be a way that you can check your rank. We already talked about this one. And then the traffic is the one that I would also encourage you guys to pay attention to. So you can use Google Analytics to do that. You can use Google My Business as well. And so I've kind of put some things in here because I'm a person that's always on the go. So these are some options for you. You can download the Google Analytics app. You can get that right on your phone. So you can see how you're doing here. There's options for you to measure by month, by week. So if you start implementing some of these tactics, measuring those things going forward, you could do that. And then the other thing I wanted to show you guys is the Google My Business app. This is really helpful for small business owners who right now have a million things that they have to do. They just want to check in and see how they're doing. It's a great way for them to do that. You see here, I'm using my business here. But not only do I see the Google My Business insights right here, but I also have the Google Analytics information as well because they're both Google products. They can integrate. And so I can just log into Google My Business and see how I'm doing in Analytics. But they're both options that I would encourage you guys to use to measure. This one over here I thought would be cool to include. It's another way to look at how your SEO campaign is performing or how your efforts are paying off. The blue bar is the Discovery. So those are people who are executing non-branded searches who are looking for services or using searches that might relate to your business. And the green is actually customers looking for your business by name. So you could look at this as non-branded and then branded searches. So again, this is something you're going to want to look at to see how you're doing. So a couple of closing thoughts and tips. This might be a no-brainer, but don't post reviews about businesses that you own. It just doesn't look good. If someone knows that you own the business, they see your name as a review. I mean, it's common sense, but you'd be surprised at some of the things I've seen, especially with working as many clients as I do. So please, don't rate your business. Let others who do business with you rate it. Or encourage your clients, you know, if your client's like, oh, yeah, let's go to set up a Google My Business page. And they're like, oh, yeah, hey, you know, last week I left a rating on the business. Just tell them to not do that again, because that's just not a good idea. Don't sweat the small stuff, right? Google's a really sophisticated algorithm, very, very sophisticated. It's really good at figuring stuff out. So things like e versus east in an address, you don't need to worry about that. Now, obviously we want consistency, right? And I talked about that. That's very important to make sure that your listings are consistent. Your website has the right information as well. But something like this is not going to throw Google off. So you don't have to worry about that. Different street names, that's a different story. But something like directional stuff, not really a big deal. And then lastly, ask for help if you need it, right? I've been in situations where I'm so frustrated, setting up a listing or dealing with some kind of structured data issue where I can't get it to work. And it's just frustrating, right, when you run into situations like that. Ask for help. You can, like I said, you can reach out to me. I would say to Google my business has some fantastic forums where you can go on there, you can post a question. And there are top contributors on there who would be happy to help you out. They can help you out with things like maybe you've got a fake review, right? Maybe someone that never came to your business, left you an awful review. You can get those things kind of handled or anything, right? Maybe you're having a problem with structured data or whatever. Ask someone locally in your meetup. You'd ask me. You could go online, post a question. But definitely ask for help if you need it. And again, I put this up here in the beginning of the talk, but if you like some of the tools that we went over or you want to go back to them, you'll find the slides there at this URL. You'll find all the tools, links to all the tools that I just went over from Tag Manager to the Structure Data Builder to the Bright Local Rank Checker. There's links to all those tools on this website or this URL, rather. And that's it. I guess we have a little bit. Do we have time? I think we have time. Yes. Right? There you go. I guess we can open it up for questions. We have until noon. We have until noon. Wow, we have a lot of time. Actually, I think you've closed. I'm Bill Bryan. I'm the MC for this room. But I'm a volunteer. I don't know. He did come and tell me to make sure that you're supposed to go to the Happiness Bar, which is beyond the coffee machine back where we registered and be around for 15 or 20 minutes to answer more questions if we run out of time for questions. But for right now, we have 25 minutes if everyone here has a question. Lots of hands. Lots of hands. I'll start in the front here and then work my way back. Do you have a question? Yeah. So I am a local business without a storefront. And my home address is what's tied to it. Sure. How do I stop that? Google, that's a great question. For those that didn't hear in the back, the question was how do I hide my home address for a home-based business? You can do that through Google My Business. You can hide your address. You can do it for most local search engines as well. And I'm the same way, right? I don't really run my business out of any location, so I just check the box for hide my address. So you are a service? Social media. OK, OK. So another option that you could consider is marking yourself as a service area business or a SAB, sometimes they're called SABs. That's what I have. So when people look up my brand name, for example, or my company name, they'll see in the Knowledge Graph card that we just looked at earlier, they'll see all the different areas that I service. So if you service a specific area, you can do that as well. But yeah, you can definitely hide your address on most of the listing sites. Yes, sir? Does this work in conjunction with... It's not in conjunction. It can work alongside of it though. Yeah. Yes, sir? When you had the slides up there about the Google Tag Manager, the SEO plugin for WordPress, are those... Does that take care of that for you? Are those competing products, or would you use one to put in the other? So if you use something like local SEO by WordPress, or local SEO for WordPress by Yoast, you would probably not need to use Tag Manager if you're just doing local SEO. Tag Manager, you can do more with it than just putting in structured data. So you can do AdWords tracking, all kinds of digital marketing activities with it. But if you're just focused on getting structured data for your website, sure, local SEO for WordPress would be fine. Yes, sir? If you do mark yourself as a service area business, do you feel that has any... So... That's a tough question to answer. It's a tough question to answer. We should talk afterwards, because it would be a long answer. We'll talk afterwards if that's okay. All right. Yes. Yeah, that's a great question. So ongoing activities, I think, would be obviously getting your listings on there, and that's citation building, right? Going out and doing some link building, I think would be a way to help your website as well. In the world of search, there's kind of two... At least in the world of organic search, the two kind of driving factors are content, obviously having great content, but also having people that back you up through links. So links that are pointing to your content are going to help you rank in Google, obviously. So that would be kind of the way that I would approach it, is building great content, trying to go out and get links to your content or to your website. Yeah. Yes. Oh, go ahead. If you're not going to buy your child's name and put it in your head or whatever... Great question. Great question. So kind of going back to tag manager, you mean? Yeah. Okay. Sure, sure. So if you are going to put tag manager in your website, you're going to want to go to header.php and you're going to put it in the head. So there's two snippets for tag manager. Actually, I think I can even just go into it real quick. And you can see there's one that goes in the head and there's one that goes in the body. And it's really that simple. You could, you could do that, and some people do. You could do that. So if I go... No, no, that's not what I wanted to do. Here we go. So this is where you put it. You put this snippet in the head and this snippet goes in the body. And that's it. You save it. You're good. Yes. So you obviously have to account for that. But yes, just generally speaking, this is where you put it. You mean like a... So I guess I would answer your question this way. If it is what I'd call a link farm where it's nothing but links, I would say no. But if I... But if the local newspaper, for example, runs listings for local businesses, that's a link I'd want to have. I'd want to go make sure I put my business on their listings page or pages so that people who are looking for services locally see me. And it's also a link back to the site. The only trick with that... What's that? Usually link farms you can identify because it's not really quality content. It's just links and links and links and that's it. But the other thing is that, you know, there's other indicators I guess I'd say. It could be slow. It could be designed pretty poorly. And the other thing that I think you might look at, you know, if you're comfortable doing this and you know what to look for is, is it a followed link or is it not a followed link? If it's a followed link from a link farm or from a website that's just a list of links, probably a link farm, right? You can tell it's a link farm because there's no... there's not a no follow on it. Meaning anybody can add a link and it's followed. That's a problem. If you're letting people add links to your website like a newspaper would, it's probably going to be a no follow. So it's not going to be... your link equity, but it's a reference for people that are visiting that site to look for local services. A local, maybe that same newspaper might write about businesses in the area and maybe they feature you and if they do a link to your website that could be followed. As long as there's no exchanging of payment for that. Google's pretty strict on paid links. So good question. I'm going to work back a little bit. Yes, sir? What do you deal with? That's a challenge. No, it is. I think... So me personally with my business I wouldn't take on a client that competes in the same area. I think there's an ethical challenge there. So that's just my take on that. If you want to keep both clients I probably have a conversation to make sure that they both understand that you're doing that. I don't know. I probably wouldn't put myself in that position, though, to be honest. Yes. Sure. No. No, that's a great question. So if you have a single page perfectly fine for you to put it in your contact us section. Yeah, div, whatever you want to call it. Yes, your contact us section. If you do that if you have a single page and you have a contact us section I wouldn't go again and put it in the footer. That's just me. Because I think it's kind of redundant. You could put it just in the footer. Sure. It depends on what that page looks like. But yeah, if that makes more sense you could do that. Absolutely. Yeah. Yes, sir. I'd have to research that. That's tricky. Sure. Sure. Yes, sir. Yeah. It's tricky, though. Yeah. Yes, sir. Risk. I wouldn't say there's risk. There are different applications for it, though. For local business structure data you don't want to use JSON. For other markup, not just there's local business, there's organization. I would use JSON for that. For blog type structure data markup I'd probably use a combination. So I'd have local business at the top probably micro data in the content. Yeah. Yes, sir. Sure. Could you get a penalty? I think this is just my opinion and another SCL might tell you something different. So just bear that in mind. My opinion is anytime you go outside the guidance that Google set forth you put yourself in a place of risk. I'll give you an example. This is kind of a little bit outside of this particular scenario but Google has structured data for job postings, right? And they recently said that if the job posting is expired but you haven't taken it off your website you can get a penalty for that because the posting isn't available anymore. So, and you're like it could be a human error, though. It could just be, you know, you forgot to take it down or whatever. So as something as simple as that when they do things like, when they say things like that kind of going back to your example it makes me think, well if it's outside of the guidelines you're going to put yourself at risk. Now have I ever encountered a specific situation like that? No. In fact I've never seen a structure data, a penalty for structured data but it doesn't mean that it couldn't happen. So, yeah, sure go ahead. I think I'm going to answer it the same way I answered your other one where if you're doing something that doesn't feel right or isn't right, you shouldn't do it. Yeah. So, and the reason I say it, if the site is popular and you could get what's called a manual penalty, that means a human at Google looked at it saw something that wasn't legit and then you get a penalty and then you're in a world of pain I think sometimes because that can be a very long process to get your site back on good terms with Google. It can be. So, who else in the back has a question? We have time left so, yes sir. I wouldn't do that. Yeah, I wouldn't do that because it's not, you're saying it's there, you're saying this is the location but it's really not the location. Yeah, I wouldn't do that. Yes sir. When you say penalty, are you talking about a lower ranking in the results? No, so there's a couple different actions Google could take with a manual penalty. They could remove a page from your website or they could remove a page on your website from Google, search results. They could remove a series of pages or your whole website could be just totally taken off of Google entirely. And the reasons for that would be? The reasons could be wide and various. So yeah, Google puts out webmaster guidelines. You can type in on Google webmaster guidelines and it'll come up. If you are doing things outside of those guidelines you could incur a manual penalty. I'm thankful I only had to ever deal with a manual penalty once and it was because when I was working at T-Mobile we had a user community where people could register and post questions or start a forum discussion and we had a spammer one time that we had a manual penalty for. Google saw one of those pages. I'm thankful it was only that one page. They took that one out. We took it down very quickly. We asked them to take a look at it and it was pretty fast. But that's not the story with everybody. So yeah, that's why I just say if you are in the guidelines you'll be okay. If you start doing things that are questionable. But they can remove one page, multiple pages or your whole site depending on the severity of the offense. Yes, sir? Last week I was in Google with my business for a new client. I had been in for a little bit of time and they reformatted it. One thing that was very obvious is that you could now add services into that. Yes. And so I built out some services. It was interesting you could do a main category and subcategories it looked like. But I just wanted to get your thoughts on that as it affects SEO. We should spend a lot of time working that section a little bit. I think you should, yeah. I don't know, I can't speak specifically to how it affects the algorithm. But I think anytime you have a chance to improve your listing, you have a chance to gain customers, right? Another thing they changed was they added descriptions back. Yeah. So, but descriptions, my understanding is before, they added descriptions recently to Google my business having taken them away a while back. So, my understanding was previously, they were in the algorithm, my understanding is now they are not. That's what I'm hearing from, in the circles that I'm a part of, that it's not concluded in the algorithm. So, even if you dump like a hundred keywords into it and just kind of throwing that number out there, but even if you dump a bunch of keywords and it's not going to affect it at all. So, having said that though, I think anytime you can make your business appealing, right, it's always a way, I would encourage people to do that, yeah. So, if you can say, I'm an SEO business and I do SEO, SEO audits and local SEO, instead of just this SEO bucket and tell people what services you offer, I think there's an opportunity there to gain business. Absolutely. Yes. Google my business descriptions. Yes. Yes. Oh, I see. So, she closed her doors. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Boy. So, there's, she's not, she has a business, but it's not that location anymore. Right? Right. This is challenging, because when you report things to Google, it can be a real uphill battle. You know, I kind of put one of the tips in here because I'm dealing with it firsthand. I know a business that's in my area that does use employees or has use employees to rate their business to, you know, give them a really great rating. And I've been trying to, I've flagged it and I said, listen, these people are employees. They should not be, and it's clearly against Google my business guidelines. You can't be a current employee or a past employee and rate that business. Similarly, if she's a business that is not at a location anymore, you could flag it, but it can be a challenge. I will tell you, if you really want to deal with it. Yeah. Sure. Let's see. Yeah, there, yeah. So, we'll go to the place I went to yesterday. Right? You can, usually there's feedback down here. Right? So, you click on the bottom of the knowledge, knowledge graph card. You click on feedback. Usually you can put stuff, well, this one you can report. Right? So, moved, closed or was never here. Sounds like that's your scenario. Right? So, she's, she moved. It looks like, it sounds like she moved. Sure. Sure. So, let me ask this. Are you seeing the, the, the... Right. So, right, right. So, if you can find her, the, the, the business that moved, if you can find them in the knowledge graph card, you can report them like this. Yeah. And hopefully Google will take care of it. I will tell you though, it's, it's an uphill battle. It is. Long time. It, it, it could take a while. There, there are some tactics though. If you are having trouble, you can come over to Twitter and you can go to Google My Business on Twitter. Okay? You can message them, right? And I have, I'm, I'm, the case I mentioned earlier that, you know, I'm dealing with this, this company that I know about. I'm working with Twitter, Google My Business right now on Twitter messaging, right? So, we're kind of going back and forth and trying to get it resolved. So, if, if you report it and nothing happens, this is another option that you can take. So, I think we're out of time, but I will be over at the happiness bar if anybody has any other SEO questions. Thanks, guys.