 2 o'clock. This is military in Hawaii on a given Thursday. I'm J. Fidel. Today, we're talking about the spouse licensure bill HP 9 61 pending in the Hawaii state legislature right now. You will be interested in the show. Um, and we have a major general Suzanne, various lump, and she's with Pacific Indo command up there on camp Smith. A very important command and a very important job, and she's been on the show. Therefore, she's very important to show. Thank you for being here. Major general Suzanne Harris Smith. And we have also Jill Barrett. She's a medical. Licensed medical technician. Um, what tell me what your role is Jill. Hello, thank you for having me. My name is Jill Barrett. I'm a certified registered nurse anesthetist nurse anesthetist. Okay. And we're going to, we're going to talk to these guys about this program that that is the subject of the bill HP 9 61. Let me preface all that by saying that I practice law state of Hawaii for like 50 years and guess who are best applicants work. Well, maybe I shouldn't say this in public. They were military. They were military more often military wives. They were a special breed. So we like them very, very much. They always worked out. The other side of it is that from the point of view of the military. You need to have strong families in the military. You need to have people who are in those families occupied and employed. And it's very important that the state of Hawaii offers them even playing field to get jobs, especially if it's jobs in areas for which they've been trained. And the problem and you will hear more about it from our guests. The problem is that right now there's a certain bureaucracy. Where the individual looking for the job who may have been trained or has license licenses elsewhere has to wait for a long time, even longer than a tour of duty here in order to get that license activated. This is a real problem. And frequently, there's a requirement that the individual be a resident of the state of Hawaii. I'm not sure that's a legitimate requirement that actually, but that's the way it is. And this bill is intended to clear that up. How close am I when I say that? Is that am I am I accurate in reporting that to you? Absolutely. You know, I really appreciate the opportunity, Jay, first of all, to talk about this bill, you know, it has gone through two committees. Now it's going to the next committee and then hopefully we'll pass through there. And I'm grateful for the governor who has supported this and introduced it because he and as well as many legislators. You know, who agree that we need to support the military and I'm grateful for that. But also that Hawaii can benefit from a lot of these need areas, especially healthcare, just like Jill, where we are short or even short and engineers. We have talented spouses out there who are, you know, licensed in multiple states. And when they come here, you know, in some occupations, you need to you cannot be out of work for a certain period of time. And if you are, then you, you know, you lose your your, your, your ability to be hireable. So, you know, shortening that timeline for these spouses is really critical. And really, you know, one of the concerns that's been brought up is it does it take away jobs from our local residents that really we're talking about a lot of areas that they can meet shortage areas and some have brought up. Well, we don't want to water down our licensure process. And really, that's not what this bill is asking. It's just asking to streamline the process, not to eliminate standards. Of course, we must have standards for consumer protection. And that is definitely the case. But many of them come with lots of experience and also amazing skills that our state of Hawaii needs. And this is not limited to Hawaii. There are, I guess, the same issue exists. And in every state, really, you want, you want an even playing field for military dependence. And for that matter, military who are retired, I hope this applies to them too. This is basically really for the spouses who are rotating out because they're only here for a short time. So, you know, it's really that two to three year period. So, currently this bill is specifically targeted for military spouses, active military spouses. You know, because really overall it helps our retention as well. When we say that Hawaii is an attractive place to come and be stationed, it's the family unit that is looking for opportunities. And many of them are moving across the country so multiple times. And this allows, you know, all of us to be in sync to support our less than 1% who serve in the United States military. Yeah, well, this is, it's very important and we can't afford to, we have to make a soft landing for them. We have to make the state work for them. Some of them really need the money. And we need them. And what's remarkable, usually before the show is that the Department of Defense, you know, DOD in Washington in the Pentagon hears about this. There you go, you're here and you're advocating for it. But also, you know, the Department of Defense is advocating for it. And you tell me they come testify. They care about the passage of this bill all the way in Washington. That really means something. It doesn't happen every day, does it? No, absolutely not, Jay. Yeah, DOD in this last committee round of hearings testified in support and they've been doing that in states throughout the country. And in some places like Illinois where they have already passed something similar that allows it to be much easier for spouses to take their existing licenses and quickly obtain a temporary license to a permanent one in the particular state that they're in. And it really helps because we have a lot of high tech healthcare, much need areas to come and help the state of Hawaii. Sure. As a matter of fact, we're losing high quality professionals every day from the civilian side. And we have a doctor shortage. There's an example of it. And I'm sure we have medical specialists like Jill. We're losing them too because, you know, they leave and they don't come back. And I suppose COVID has an effect on this. Let me ask Jill, why don't you tell us your story about how you came to Hawaii with a license already, a license that had been at one point active in Hawaii, a previous sort of duty. What kind of trouble did you run into? Sure. I'm happy to share this. In 2014, we left Hawaii for the first time we were stationed here and I kept my nursing licenses. So I have a registered nursing license as well as an advanced practice nursing license to practice as a certified registered nurse anesthetist. And I kept them in an inactive state where I just paid really minimal fees every few years, just with the hopes that possibly one day we would return here. And if we did, I thought, wow, this will really make it easy just to convert it to active. Well, in 2018, when we found out we had orders to come here, I went ahead and looked online how to do this and I had to pull out a hard copy application. There's nothing online to be able to just quickly convert this. So I did the hard copy application. Now it's March. I haven't heard anything make phone calls. The Board of Nursing, I think is really overwhelmed with phone calls. There are times that I would literally redial 20 times. And I kept notes just to, because it was becoming unbelievable to me how difficult this was. And I would have to read out 20 times just to be put into a queue to talk to someone, and I could be in that queue for an hour. And I'm trying to and it's a six hour time difference between the East Coast where we're stationed in Hawaii. So I'm doing this as I'm leaving work as I'm bathing children as I'm making dinner and just trying like sitting on hold hoping someone would answer I get someone would answer. I'm sorry that person isn't here but we'll leave them a message. Then I would get an answer well I'm sorry that person's new to this job and I'm not sure that she knows how to process us. Then I would call I just kept calling and calling and I finally got to the point that I said, can I speak to your supervisor. Well my supervisor is in a meeting. Can I speak to that person's supervisor sure I can leave her message. So left a message for nothing back. Then I'd call again a few days later go through the same process wait in, you know, get into the queue wait an hour. Finally get someone and I said I can I get off the phone right now we're talking now it's almost three months. I need a license to apply for a job in Hawaii. And so I finally got in touch with someone who happened to find my application sitting on the desk, and they, and they quickly went ahead, made a change in the computer and they said okay you're active. Wait, just that just a quick little input into the computer and I had an active license, but it took three months of me calling and trying to get in touch with the right person and sitting on a hold for our hour. And I mean the process was unbelievable so in the state of Hawaii in order to even apply for a job, you have to have an active license. So now I'm three months of waiting to get my license activated and now I can start the process of applying. What makes this really un palatable is that as I recall you can correct me but we have a nursing shortage in Hawaii. So the state needs nurses they need you. Yeah, and yet and yet you run into this kind of obstacle course. It's extraordinary and actually a violation of the government's duty to the public. The government's duty being to provide an adequate number of trained nurses. Right. Suzanne I mean how do you feel about this, and it's okay to express emotion. Well you know I think that is why the governor really back this as well as many legislators in our white state legislature. And that's why it's now moving to the third committee I think they all agree, as well as the DCCA, you know that looks at providing these license. You know, some of them if I could share the occupations are predominantly health care, you know dentist dispensing optician mental health counselor certified nurse a licensed practical nurse registered nurse, nursing home administrator occupational therapist optometrist pharmacist physicians physicians that died dress and the list goes on a lot of medical health care but what's not on here. What was deleted from the last committee was one of them where we do have a shortage which are engineers, and that was removed from the list so you know one in my testimony of course as an individual. You know I think that that's an area that they need to look at and adding back in and if not this round, maybe the next round on engineers because we have a shortage of engineers. And even if some of them come in as young and new licenses. I think even level one engineers we have a shortage as well so that's an area to look at. Well, yeah, I mean, and you know that these things take sometimes to take a few years of trying before the bill actually gets past. And then, you know, you pass it in one form and then you have to go back and fix it the next year and keep on looking at it until finally you get something that works. I actually find that extraordinary and as I said a violation of public policy. So query, you know who is who is opposing this bill. I mean you don't have to name names just give me general categories, who would oppose a bill like this. I think there has been general concern that and not general but some some members. Not many though we're concerned about giving licenses or preferential treatment to do these spouses. And then therefore, endangering the consumer by giving a license potentially that was not up to standard. That's really not what this bill is about bill does not at all ask for anyone who is, you know, doesn't meet the standards of education training. Internship whatever is required for that particular profession must be met. In many cases have multiple licenses for multiple states so for example, we had a general officer who was here his wife, the dentist license in three states. She came here and saw that their his tour duty was only two years here, tried to see if she could get her license transferred very difficult. She ended up not practicing and we, you know, here. She did end up volunteering with taking statistics for monk deals you know so she took her scientific background and data to help Hawaii on a volunteer basis but we could have used her expertise. And of course I asked her on the side because my daughter got her wisdom teeth taken out and I said, What do I do her mouth is really so on so she gave me some free advice, because I knew she was a dentist. And that was just the kind of heart she had. I mean I just think about, you know, we lost out on that opportunity. Also another officer who was here, his wife, express to me. She was a very. A therapist, a physical therapist and very experienced and highly sought out after about my age so she had, you know, decades of experience. But she, she gave me a near full sharing with me how difficult it was for her. She had to wait, but when she got in there, full speed ahead, excited, participating in our, in our society and community and giving back. And so to, I guess, clarify for those people who think that, you know, we're changing the standard, we're not. We're upholding the standard and I would say we come with people with higher than the standard with a lot of experience, and also infusing the state with new ideas and new ways of doing things we see this in the teaching market right some of our teachers that come in and they've experienced the different experience in another state and here's a new idea, and I'm not going to take jobs permanently but I'm going to infuse into the state and fresh thinking. Well, all the more important. I am always, as I said, is the exception I'm always impressed with the level of a competence and be motivation that you find from military spouses and in a legal office concept they were terrific one after the other for you, years and years. And I came to that conclusion with lots of data support right conclusion. And, and you know, J if I could say something else is, I feel like the spouses working in our communities also link the military with the local community. They become part of that family, whether it's our hospitals, or the community members. And they actually bring that back to their home to their military uniform spouse. And it really bonds us together as a community when our spouses are integrated and not just on the base but in in our, in our schools with other local families. We want them to be happy when they're here. We want the United States military to think of Hawaii as a as a really good duty station as a treasured place to put on your wish list and try to get back here as often as you can. And ultimately, although this, as you said this bill does not address it ultimately to retire here, ultimately to invest their lives here. In migration or in migration that we really need. You know, there's a lot of press lately about how people are leaving the state. We have to attract them here. And one great source of people to attract is the United States military. I'm with you 100% on that. So, so Jill, I mean, I understand that nurses talk to each other. This is true. Are you are you the only one with a story like that, or are the others that you know I connect with. We do talk, but I haven't heard us. I haven't heard of others difficulties like mine I guess we really haven't talked to that extreme you know we're busy at work we see each other in the break room. We're busy in the operating room so. And a lot of my coworkers are local and they've been here a long time. We do have a handful of us at our military spouses so it'd be interesting for me to pick their brains but I felt like my story was definitely unique. I like to speak up for all military spouses because we do, I believe, bring a set of skills that sometimes I practiced all over from Virginia to Alaska to Hawaii to Kansas. And even though medicine is medicine, there's tweaks and little things along the way that you do differently. And it's just, you know, it's really I think very good for our whole population to bring in those types of aspects into the profession. And I couldn't agree more with integrating and becoming part of the community and the family when we were stationed here before I started working time deploy the next month. And though my coworkers, they were my family. And I, I mean I couldn't have existed that month I felt like without them. And, and that is just a huge part of being in this community and I think that's why when we left. I've never left Hawaii. So that's why I was like, I can't give up my driver's license I can't give up my nursing license. And because I just felt like there's got to be a way that we'll come back one day and then it came true. And we were back in 2018. Did you testify. Yes. You're the powerful witness hearing on this film. Go ahead. I've sent in a written justification. Yes. The other thing is that maybe this is something that has happened in the past but isn't happening now I recall that for the lack of a sufficient force of nurses and in the hospitals and the like, they grew up a system. This is a national system where the hospital Jordan nurses would would would happen to this national exchange of nurses and and you'd have traveling nurses independent contractors who would come out to Hawaii and on a contract and spend a month or two or three. And then leave. And they and they would, you know, they would, they would fill the gap. I don't know if it still happens. I guess it does. I work at in Honolulu. We still do not for nurse anesthetists but for registered nurses for our scrub tax. They do bring in travelers to fill in the gap. Yeah, so it strikes me that if I was a nursing or rather a hospital administrator. And I had choice to hire a military dependent nurse. Or a nurse who was an independent contractor coming here for a month or two. I would, I would take the military dependent every time. Because this she's not a gig worker or he is not a gig worker. It's a more of a commitment. Would you make that comparison. I agree. I think that you're more vested, you know, you're here, you're part of the community, you're contributing. I think, in general, I mean, we're loyal, I mean, come to work, we do our job and we exceed in every way. I, that's how I feel. So when you have someone that's just coming for a few weeks, four weeks, six weeks at a time. I think it's a completely different feeling. And it's, you know, they're here, Hawaii is beautiful. Let me make it into a little vacation, make a little money also but it's a different sense. Definitely. I think being part of the community is what makes this island so unique and so hard to leave. Next time you need a nurse and anesthetist, ask for Jill. That's right. I will. I plan to. Call a nurse called Jill. How many people are affected by this. If you're in the ledge and you're testifying on the bill and somebody says to you, you know, HP 961, just a handful of people right now it's more than that. Can you talk about the scope of the reach of this bill? Yeah, so, you know, as I mentioned, we have, you know, the large military presence here on Oahu. So, you know, you know, 40,000 depending on who you're counting 60,000 with ships coming in but in terms of station here, we believe maybe about 50,000 that this would affect or impact, but we don't know how many we don't really have a clear number. We have a lot of anecdotal evidence. Many of them that come in as teachers. This bill doesn't affect because the Department of Education has a different process, but that seems to have been ironed out that we have a lot of military spouses in our education system and that's great. You know, doesn't cover lawyers or accountants, because there's certain state laws that they'd have to do, you know, acquire to be different for sure. So, but many of them have done it. I have met some lawyers and some accountants who have gone through the process. Of course that took longer. But of course this one really a lot of healthcare, as I mentioned, and I think of that 15,000 military spouses currently living and working in Hawaii. I imagine there's a large percentage that are in the medical field, we are still seeking out the accurate numbers from the components but as you know, this is the headquarters of the largest and oldest combatant command so we have a huge number with air forces, specific fleet, US Army Pacific, here at Indo Pacific Command, special operations specific. So, you know, getting all that the data, the specific number but right now we're going with the 15,000. Okay, well, you know, the thing is this is an important, strategical point and base. And we have to do everything we can to make it comfortable. I mean, I know I isn't around anymore. But we have to make sure that the Pentagon sees this as an attractive base and everything we can do to make it attractive to the military here, we should do it. Absolutely, that goes to our retention goes to attracting the best family units that come here, and that can integrate on all levels. And, you know, again, you know the state of Hawaii acknowledges that a lot of most of the leaders do, and they understand how very important it is and that's why many, most of them are backing, I would say, you know, every most everyone that I've encountered and I've talked to about this, they get it and they support it and I'm very, very grateful. Yeah, that's great. So I want to bring this to, you know, our present situation for context. We have been through and we are still in pandemic. And you're talking about healthcare. You're talking about, you know, what was was in immediate and life threatening crisis a year ago, which potentially is, you know, still the case. But I wonder, you know, what the pandemic, what effect the pandemic has had on the nursing industry as far as we know, the military nurses, as far as, you know, the military spouse nurses, the ones that would be affected by the bill. And, you know, and the military's position vis-a-vis those people. How has it affected your initiative? You know, COVID-19 has really highlighted and put our heroes off of just our warfighters, but all on medical care, the Jills out there. They're all warfighters now. They are. They are. They're fighting COVID. They're, they are in the front lines of this, this pandemic. And, you know, we have seen a shift in change. And you're just talking to all the Jills out there, medical professionals, doctors, and just thanking them. You know, it was always often just the uniform people. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your service. But, you know, our healthcare responders are out there giving these very invasive COVID tests and inoculation, the vaccination, dealing with already existing illnesses and a COVID virus in the hospitals. And then also the, and Jill could probably speak to this, those who are regular patients, how, you know, not having visitors at the end of life. So I'm sure, Bill, I mean, Jill, if you have anything to. Oh, yeah. Bill, have you been involved in that? I mean, because that is, oh, that's so touching to be there and be the only one and be acting essentially as the family. Yeah, I've heard stories, but my responsibility is primarily in the operating room. So I, you know, I'm giving anesthesia in the operating room to patients. I have not been a part of the end of life here. You know, there's the COVID unit is just a hallway over from where I work. So sometimes I walk down that hallway to get to an operating room and I just imagine what it must be like. But I haven't personally, and in that situation, but it's just devastating from, you know, just what I can imagine, but I am a little bit more isolated in the operating room taking care of patients putting them to sleep waking them up giving sedation. Intimately involved in them in close proximity to whatever they bring to the operating room and in the beginning, we didn't know what patients were infected or not. And now we do a really good job of screening all of our patients. And then it helps to that were vaccinated. So that's another benefit to going to work and feeling a little safer than before. And that as it may, however, the average person who has the need to go to a hospital these days without COVID, no COVID involved, still has a greater level of concern about going into the hospital into the mall, the place that could be could be infected and winding up with a virus result in the process. And I would bet you, you tell me, but I would bet you that that life as a patient, different after COVID and your engagement with that patient is different, because he or she is looking for the comfort to soften his concerns. Am I right? Yeah, I think that it definitely does bring more anxiety. And also, you know, all the layers we have between our patients now all the PPE we have to wear, you know, it's more difficult to hear each other it's more difficult to have that contact with people because you're just you know, if you end 95 you get your face shield on and it's just like you're trying to develop this rapport with someone in such a short amount of time. And some of the time it's hard to hear you can you don't have the lips to read anymore that made it easier. They're wearing a mask everyone's behind all these layers of protection. So I definitely there's more anxiety you come in you've got to be screened at the front door I mean everything has changed, for sure. You're getting better I think people are less anxious but in the beginning, for sure, and then you go to a hospital and you hope for the best and the safest experience but you never know what you're going to walk away with. So when you when you say for a long time, will you come back. Have you, I guess from what you said you will come back you'll be invested in Hawaii or you've kind of made made it your long term home am I right. I'm not sure yet long term goal is my husband is still active duty Army so we shall see we do love it here. We, we trying to imagine what life would be on the mainland and we, we just can't I mean especially during the pandemic, where you felt like you're in such a bubble of safety, and everything wasn't even just the pandemic but everything else going on in the world that was crazy, you know we just safe here. Our kids love it we love it we love the people love the weather. I don't know what we'll do we haven't figured out what we want to do and we grow up yet. The problem is you're too young. Too many years left, too many years left in the service and the wonderful thing about the services, you know, you, you investigate and go through an adventure and every station. You really get to see the world, even in the army, as opposed to the Navy. And you know, what this whole discussion gives me a good feeling in the sense that the DOD cares about how the spouses do in Hawaii. I served in a committee in the Coast Guard and it was our job to make sure that they were okay while their husbands were at sea, which sometimes would be a deployment of several months. And you wanted them to be okay, you didn't want them falling off the side. You know, if you're alone, you know, if you don't have the support of your husband right there then you have, you have issues and risk. And so I can see this as a benefit to the military to make sure they're okay, but also I see it as a larger piece of the the presence as you said, of the military in Hawaii which has been going on a very long time. Since 1850, that's my own planning point. In 1850, the United States Navy was in Pearl Harbor, long before anything much happened in Pearl Harbor. And, you know, we bonded at the hip. Sometimes people forget that. So this is all that special connection that Chamber of Commerce engages in the Military Affairs Committee to try to keep it connected and remind people that, as you said at the outset, that the military is part of our society. But let me, let me offer you the opportunity, Stan, of what you would leave with our viewers about this. What would you, what would you leave with our viewers about this bill about other bills, about amendments to this bill that may come forward, you know, about the attitude of the legislators and the public on issues like this. Thank you, Jay, for that opportunity. I would say that, first of all, I am grateful for the leaders in the state of Hawaii that have introduced this bill because they acknowledge how very important everything you just said, Jay. But also how important the military is here for Hawaii, not only for our security, but also our economic security. And we saw that this past year with COVID, we saw that, you know, the defense industry, you know, our presence here really contributing to the economy, the second largest contributor to Hawaii's economy really is the Department of Defense. And it's just not the military member. These are people who work at our Pearl Harbor shipyard, but also their families, all of the military families that come here and are integrated into our communities. You know, we are part of Hawaii's Ohana. And just like you said, we're part of Hawaii's history, we have a long heritage, even local families of military service like myself being from here. This is part of who we are. This is the landscape. And in our military, we encourage everyone to be a part of taking care of the place, the culture, and the environment. We want to be good stewards and family members. Ohana, really. Thank you, Jay. That's why I love this show. Thank you very much, Major General Suzanne Varys-Lum and NSSS Nurse Jill Barrett. Thank you very much. Thank you for this show, but also thank you for what you do. I say that as I pass into the Kanoi area to go to the O Club in a century, you know, says hi to me, I say thank you for your service. So to you guys, I say the same thing. Thank you for your service. Aloha. Thank you.