 How can you see what all right good morning traders and welcome to the bookmap pro trader webinar today with Gary Norden? This is the first time we've had Gary So he is a dome trader trades on the dome heavily and Very very excited to have Gary here and go through some of his methods in here. It's very unique You're not gonna find this very many places out there And such expertise here in the dome So Gary has developed the Norden method He's been a professional trader for over 30 years including several years in the trading pits at the at the life He and as a senior trader in some of the world's largest investment banks He is a co-owner of the Nn to capital and creator of the Norden method a unique style of trading order flow Gary is the author of an end to the bowl and Technical analysis exposed why most technical analysis traders fail really interesting stuff here So very much looking forward to this. I have a few different contacts here for Gary From his websites here. We have the Norden method calm and Gary Norden calm. I'll be pasting these into the chat so that you can Access them and and click directly on the link So I gotta go through the disclosures and I also want to go over our sale discount at the moment So general disclosure all book map limited materials information and presentations are for educational purposes only and should not be considered specific investment advice nor recommendations the risk disclosure trading futures equities and digital currencies Involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results And let's let's get started here and Gary if you can share your screen In the meantime here, let me Also go over the special event that we have here You guys might be aware of we've been we've been covering it all week and a little bit of last week our black Friday So the biggest discount of the year get 50% off if you guys are interested in trying book map. This is the time Try it for a month. It's for the first month only you get 50% off So give it a shot see if this works for you watch some of these pro trader events see how they're trading and See if order flow and book map matches with your trading style So you can go here Click on the link there and you can read more about it. The coupon code is here and what you're getting so it's upgrade If you already have book map and you want to upgrade this discount will apply So you can try the global or global plus if you have digital plus Or if you want to just try book map for a month or so just note that it doesn't include data and You know, you you will need to get the data as well. All right So anyway, let's see. I think Gary's got his stream up. Let's take a look here Can you see me? Can you see all the slide? Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome Gary. How are you? I'm well. Thanks. Hello everybody And thanks Bruce for having me on it's it's really nice to be on I don't do a lot of webinars I don't get invited on to many and you'll probably find out why soon, but Thanks very much for inviting me on. Oh, sure. No, I've been really looking forward to this So guys, we also have a survey to to display or would love for you guys to take part in a little bit later I'll put the link into the chat for you to take a look at this for Getting some feedback on the dome. We have a very professional level dome that We think can offer you something. We're just looking for some feedback on that. So take it away Gary Thanks very much, and I will take questions at the end. I'm sort of scheduled to I think I've written Slides for about 30 minutes. Well, so I'll take questions at the end Bruce if you could feed me the questions at the end is great And if from time to time that someone could just yell out to me what the score in the Australia game is in a World Cup would be really helpful to so Hey, everyone. I'm Gary Norden Norden method is the style it's pretty unique now. I was talking to someone last night an ex Chicago trader And you know, we he's one of the only also one of the original sorts of guys and he reckons There's there's very sure of us left that know these skills, and I'm probably the only one teaching I think I Also want to mention that My website my course is sponsored by Eurex. I'm really proud of that the fact that an exchange Puts their name to supporting what I do and what I'm trying to achieve. So Thanks to Eurex for that again similar disclaimer As well to what Bruce said. I was actually thinking as I was writing this I should put a second disclaimer as well along the lines of you know There's there's not a lot of fancy visuals in my presentation today. I'm sorry about that But the style I have is quite boring There's not a lot of visuals charts colors and involved in it and Some people may be a bit offended by some of the things I'm going to say and I want to apologize in advance I'm just going to say that You know, I'd like people to have a sort of open mind about things as I'm going to say a lot of things that are very different To other people and I suppose it just comes down to to where I come from. So it's a little bit about me I'm from London, originally. I live in Australia now. I Started off as a market maker for a Japanese investment bank trading derivatives and I was 18 but I got given a trading book when I was 19 And went down to the lifeblood and options market maker For several years and also head of options for some of the biggest banks in London and also the derivative trader in many ways A market maker in many markets and that's going to be the the core of what you know I'm going to do so a lot of what I'm talking about today and the method and all the method is based on that Training I received as a market maker As a market maker you do develop certain skills and techniques you have to and It's those skills and techniques that have guided me through in different positions Even when I was a proprietary trader at an investment bank even when I design as I do now option trades for For the hedge fund if I'm looking for solutions to certain problems It's usually a market maker solution that's going to get me out of it And market makers tend to be skilled as I said they have to be skilled And you're making prices in like I have for example would make prices in convertible bonds to all the biggest hedge funds in the world If I don't have if I'm not skilled in what I'm doing You know, I could end up on really the wrong side of a lot of things So you have to really understand very quickly when sentiments changing what the value of the contracts are any one moment In order to be able to make a price Which is what market makers, you know as I was trained to do had to do Market making now is slightly different not a lot of people have to make prices anymore And I think that actually means that the skill set of market makers has really dropped and I've seen that and Certainly in my consulting work. I've noticed that the skill set of market makers now is way lower than what we had to do There's a lot of misunderstanding about market makers out there as well I think if I ask people generally in the return industry what a market makers do I think the answer that will come back is a front-run and that's just simply not what a market maker should should be doing It's a small part of it from time to time. You will jump in front of orders, but that's not really what market making is about Hey, Gary, I'm sorry to interrupt for just a moment here But there's in the middle kind of at the top where it says how evolve right now. There's a Share your entire screen Stop sharing if you can just minimize that or something You can get rid of that a little bit Yeah, it's maybe they just made it or yeah, is there like a minus button there on the on the left? Yeah Okay Yeah, yeah, that's it. Thank you. Okay, excellent So all of this understanding about market makers and certainly there's the modern day ones are not trained at a level that we had to do That's easier for them. So when the when the life because I was an options market maker on life when the pits closed I decided actually with some guidance to not trade options when the markets were screen-based and went into futures I'd never traded futures before directly And I decided to choose a scalping style and that's what what's evolved and and that's what I've continued to evolve over time The biggest changes over so that was like 1999 right so the biggest changes to the to the style over the years There's really been ways to protect myself from situations and players if you go back to the markets in those days Probably less less sophisticated And over time, you know that the having to protect ourselves from certain situations Certain types of players has probably been the the biggest factor of the change and the evolution of an order method the way I scout But again, I always come back to market maker skills These are the skills that will help me out if I'm always wondering how can I avoid this or how can I avoid that? It's usually something that I learned as a market maker that will help me out there So even today I'll continue to make adjustments But the core ideas will remain the same because the core principles of market making don't change They are valid and they'll remain valid You know, I've made markets in In a number of different markets from convertible bonds to options on the floor in different ways The you know, and I still use those methods today to design as a set option trades the core ideas the principles the techniques Remain valid. It's just that we have to sometimes adapt certain things and I might make a couple of other references during the the evening to like a A golf swing and I think it's very similar to that the core principles of a golf swing Will always remain even though the swings themselves from different players are changing right and everybody has a slightly different swing But for example, you know, the club face will be square with the ball at impact, right? That's just one thing that you have to do Another interesting thing was for so for most of my career. I've never really been involved with retail traders Um Over the last sort of eight nine years. I have taught. I did teach like a few people maybe five or six a year Um, you know, I had a lot of emails and I would take on five or six The website's only been up for about a year. So, you know, over the third years It's only been the last year that I've actually had this website made And what's been interesting that teaching retail traders sort of for the first time is open my eyes to Mistakes and biases and things that I just never been aware of before and it's interesting. It's helped me adapt the course refine the course And you know, it helps me to teach right as I see things that I didn't even know people would make such mistakes Um, so and again, that's all part of the evolution also Helps me to teach people by learning, you know by seeing these things So I want to start off as I said, I apologize for the fact There's not a lot of fancy visuals in that because this is a quite a boring style But I need you to sort of I hope try to teach you to understand What this is so that when you look at some examples, um Because the examples themselves, you know, they don't look too flash, right? So I'm going to start off by saying what it isn't What it isn't what I don't do, okay? There are no levels involved in this form of trading Okay, there are no special levels. I'm not sitting there waiting for certain levels to happen I I'm you know, I'm not a believer in levels and I don't want to use them Um, there's no charts involved in this at all and those of you that may have heard of me will know that I am You know very anti using charts for any traders Um, there is little or no reliance on past data um So there's no ta at all technical analysis at all There's no use of the word they all right, and this is this is a hate of mine I know a lot of people in this industry say things like and traders when they lose they will say things like Oh, yeah, they squeezed me out. They did is I don't use that word they I don't Believe that exists and I don't want to use it as a cop out as an excuse. So there's no they here You know, I take responsibility for what I do and I do not think everybody's getting up on me I do not think there was a group of people controlling things Um, no use of volume profile market profile any indicators in this Uh, I'm not trying to identify a large volume areas. I'm not trying to join large players Okay, I'm not playing that game I'm not trying to predict market direction I'm completely, you know the Uh, unbiased to market direction. I'm not holding trades for a long time. I'm not looking for big wins Uh, it's not low frequency. Uh, which is probably not a very good phrase to use actually in English terms. Um So essentially it's the opposite of what I think most retail traders, right? I think most retail traders would probably have Uh, at least two or three on that list. Okay, and some of them will have more than that. Okay, but it's none of that. Um, and I'm You know, I've been I've been at seminars or things before and people have said, hey, you know What you're teaching us or what you're saying is completely opposite of what everybody else says and it's sometimes been sort of hinted that that's a some sort of A sort of a negative accusation of me, but personally I wear that badge with pride. I'm very happy to be doing the opposite So it's not a it's it's not a I don't take it as a criticism when people say that I'm quite happy with that Um, so let's go through what it is. What are we trying to do and how will we use the DOM? Because these are the things we're looking for so we'll move through what what it is now So with with this style We can trade at any price any price and you look on that ladder And any any price along there we can trade on we are open to trading anywhere Okay, what we're trying to do is just try to work out Where value is right now can we buy below it can we sell above it? That's what that's essentially what a market maker should do all the time is what try to work out where value is Now buy below it or sell above it or you know either or Um, so the fact that I can trade on any single price Any single price in that DOM means they obviously can be many more opportunities for me Which is going to be a key factor across, you know, a lot of things here Um, I'm not waiting around for for something special for to get into a certain area I can trade anywhere at any time potentially with the right conditions in the right situation as we'll look at some other things another thing about the way I treat them is that futures are a derivative and so I'll treat them like that so The the demand and supply that we see in the DOM for a futures contract. Okay I understand what that is But I also understand what it isn't and it isn't all the demand and supply For that particular product. So if you're training es futures, for example Yet as a demand and supply there's bids and offers in the order book for the es futures But there's a whole other lot of things that could impact where the es futures are going Right like the the underlying stock market the the the spider etf, which is huge If those things move big time they can affect what's going to happen as well These are derivatives. So I understand that so I I'm not so I I factor in The fact that there are potentially other issues other influences On the supply and demand of this product. I don't just think because there's Eyes in these futures that means we're going up. I understand there's other influences too And it's quite interesting that I think that that point might seem very controversial to some people and I and I don't understand why that would be controversial because Me it's a fact. They are a derivative and they're one of the derivatives, for example In some markets, you know what you're trading is is not a derivative or it's the main derivative And it's the main order book But for example in es if you're trading that you have to be aware that there's other other products as well With their own order books with their own influences as well So it's based on the a style of the of the old floor locals, right? And I'm not going to get into the whole thing about did floor locals transition And there's a there's a lot of mythology about that, right? Oh, they did they all struggled and that There's a lot of mythology about that. I was there at the time. I know what happened Um, and there's a lot of mythology about what happened in the transition Um, and and so forth I say it's not the time to go into that now, but It's based on a style So that that role really the role of a local the role of someone who trades with their own money in In the futures market, okay? This is what it's based on and and over time have adapted it to the futures platforms as they have adapted to As well because if you you know, those of us that were back there in 1999 The futures platforms are very different So again, just one little thing about the transition I said I wouldn't go there. I'll talk about one little thing is some of those platforms that are around then You know, they're nothing like what you see now and you know, it would be very difficult to see the markets properly on them Um, it's a use of market making principles and techniques It's always at the heart of of of most things that I do But particularly this and that's a similar to a local start as well Can be personalized, you know, you can look, uh, you know through three fourth different traders They're not going to look exactly the same go back to the golf analogy I I can teach, you know, if a pro golfer can teach a hundred people the same the same things They're not all going to have a hundred exactly the same swings They're going to have slight differences. Some people are taller sort of whatever and they will have tight differences Same here. Some traders are a bit more aggressive. You know, I explain what does aggressive look like? What does defensive look like in general? It's a very defensive style of trading Um, you know, it's generally a very defensive style of trading, but you can become more aggressive at times. I explain that to to um To my students as well But you know, my what I really like is when my my my clients my students Take on the principles and adapt them and evolve them for themselves when I see people do that I know that they've really made it and the ones and some of the my best students and you know I've had a number who have gone on for example to to to go on to work at hedge funds and trade for hedge funds And it's using these sorts of principles Because these are professional styles. So if you if you go towards a hedge fund with these type of Techniques and skill set It's going to be this type of skill set that they would want and those people have one They've been able to adapt and I think was what's it really interested me as I've had a few students Who have gone on to become Successful hedge fund traders at crypto hedge funds really find that interesting. I don't personally trade crypto But they've been able to adapt the skill set into that market Um, so no one's going to look the same It's not like there's a level here and if you know or if you're training with something with indicators where the indicators are the Same for everybody. It's here now. This is showing us a biosignal. It's not like that You know and I could send 20 people to trade the same market at the same time And they're going to find slightly different trades Right, which is great, right? We so we're not all competing against each other as well And it just means as well that those that are better are going to find more trades and do more and you know That's the way of life, right? The better traders will find more. Some of them won't find as many Um, so as bruce said we are just traders of the dom the dom pro Um book map is actually An exceptionally good um dom So I don't want to preempt and sorry to the survey that you're doing bruce and I don't want to influence people but It is One of the best doms. I would put it probably in the top two now, right out there Um, and a number of my students have transitioned across to it Um, so it's it's an excellent dom. We use the dom and I know that there's not many people that use that anymore Um, so we we are among, um, I think the the hardest users of doms um, and uh, I And I won't switch and I'll get to that. I think in another slide. I'll talk about why I'm um, um, but certainly we Uh, are very heavy users of the of the dom. We don't use anything else Typically, it's a manual form of trading But but some of my students will automate some aspects of it Often the exits are automated if you're training in queue. It's a very fast market Sometimes people like to automate some aspects of it. That's that's fine as well But yeah, there's some once you start automating this Um, it can cause some issues as well. It's not like there's always a Perfect solution when you automate it it will help you do some things But it will take away some other things as well And you know when we have our meetings and people bring up those issues. I talk about that as well Um, go back one So what are we looking at when we look at the dom and and the platform that we have? Well, when we're looking at Um, you know, when we're looking at the book map dom and and the platform in general We're looking through the order book, right? So we're looking at at the order book Not necessarily in balances between buy and sell orders though And in some markets that this doesn't give you any feedback anyway But we'll be looking through the order book. What's there? Liquidity is a huge part of this if you're a market maker you're almost You're a judge of liquidity more than anything else and I've said already that I'm not trading direction, right? I don't trade direction Um And I think the more professional approach is it's like it options, right option retail option traders Play direction and time decay generally right and delta and theta and professional option traders trade gamma and vega And it's similar in this industry retail traders like to trade direction prediction forecast try to get you know Guess the market direction Personals tend to favor different styles of techniques and liquidity is one of them trying to be to judge liquidity pace of market And these can give you opportunities if you learn the skills to take advantage of certain situations So we're looking at the liquidity in this market the pace of the market Who's playing? You know, what style of trade is playing it's important to us as I'll get to In a second I think We'll look at correlations We we we're not Straight correlation traders back we'll look at them I've already said that I know that there are other contracts that could influence mine right the spider and The underlying stocks they could influence what's happening in the es if I'm trading es Or the cues if you're trading in cue so I need to be aware of them time and sales You know, we need to look at as well in the faster markets less But we'll look at time and sales of course. We want to know where it's trading. I'm a market maker style um And just don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to teach people to become market makers. I'm trying to teach people to think like a market maker Um, we're looking for spots to avoid. There's certain things that we don't certain situations that we don't want to be trading in So we're looking along and through all this information as we look at the order book as we look at who's playing as we look at the liquidity There's certain spots that we don't want to play Um, and that's something that I you know, obviously it's a big part of what I teach people When not to trade it's something that we have a like a monthly meeting and I talk about things and one of the key things I hammer almost every month is your success as a trader Is in in a large part going to be based on your ability to sit out Your ability to sit out when knowing when not to trade is so important. So teaching people spots to avoid is important And of course we're looking at the last trader price as well where a market's trading all those sorts of things So that's what we're going to need in a in in our platform and that's what we're looking at We're trading in the now In the moment I said I don't really use past information. It's not I don't care where it traded five minutes ago I don't care. There was a a big buyer half an hour ago that that sort of information Really is not important to me. Okay. I'm trading in the now I need to be in this moment right now What's value right now? Can I can I judge it or not? You can't always judge where value is And I think it gives me edge frankly that I'm in the now and other people are looking at Previous, you know, what happened half an hour ago? You know, I've written about this put videos out about context the context half an hour ago may have been very different So as a market maker, I really need to be trading in the now. What's what's the value right now? What's happening right now? And this comes in I was having a discussion last night with a good guy. Uh, who's I said this ex floor trader. I was just put out Uh, a newsletter my newsletter. No into the ball today actually I just put it out about order flow trading and there, you know, some sort of facts and fiction about order flow trading And you know, I was trying to say to him, you know, he was proofreading it And you know, if we had to come up with What really is order flow trading and what isn't, you know, I would say that if you want pure order flow trading It it and it has to be in the now. Okay. It has to be using information now both entry and exit You know, I think it might be a side in a minute If we, you know, if you're holding trades a half an hour, it's not a pure order flow trade It's a direction trade that you might be using some order flow information, but it's not an order flow trade So for me, I'm in and out of trades with this style within a, you know, a couple of seconds And I analyze the exit before I enter And again, this is what pure order flow is. This is what market makers will do You know, you won't I mean the way I was taught and the way I was, you know I had to learn to make prices is if I'm making a bid for something I need to know where I can get out of it Otherwise I can get absolutely killed out there, right? So, um, when I'm teaching people One of the key aspects is because written in out quickly when I'm looking through all those things that we listed before I'm also looking to analyze the exit before I even enter Which is essential if I want to be out in like one or two seconds. It's essential. I do that And so real order flow trading as I said should incorporate the order flow at the time of the trade That is what order flow trading actually is not from beforehand. If I'm analyzing what happened beforehand order flow And there's other principles then what what I'm doing is I'm incorporating some order flow principles But into a different style, but that's not pure order flow trading And that includes the exit if you think about it the term flow order flow flow means liquidity Which is, you know, one thing that's why liquidity is such an important part of it But also if I'm incorporating a style of order flow analysis, but I'm going to hold the trade for half an hour I have no idea what the order flow or liquidity is going to be like in half an hour So again by definition that whole trade from start to finish can't be an order flow trade in my opinion and You know, my my other buddy who's I would say was even it's an expert as well. So I've written more about that and then in my newsletter, which I literally just released today that that particular topic I think it's quite interesting. But that's how I see real pure order flow trading And that's what I'm trying to do I analyze makes it nowhere my exit is before I've even entered the trade Because if I don't like the exit then I'm not going to take the entry I embrace randomness I believe there's randomness. I'm not I do not think that that there's a design in every price or trade So I'm not looking for patterns. I embrace the fact that in markets where there's lots of market orders You know, there's by definition if there is if there are sorry lots of market orders It must be randomness A market order just sell me at market if it's hit two seconds later It's going to hit a different price, right? So I embrace the fact that there's that randomness and I and I use that in in the style again another point of difference to others and at this point I just this is just I'm just going to show a snapshot, right? So this is the the book map pro dom. I'm just going to show a snapshot of Where is it? now just a few seconds, right and this is um Typical few seconds of a reasonable futures market, right now if you want to If I showed that again, if you want to You can say things like oh, it's bouncing off here. It's Retracing from there. It's doing that And that's what a lot of people will do when they see this, right? And if you're training, you know, nq for example futures, right? If you really wanted to you could you could try to look at patterns like that In the same way if I looked at the sky and and looked at clouds I might see a Bunny rabbit, right or something like that if I wanted to see it I don't look at that and see that. All right. I don't look at that and try to come up with patterns It's retracing off here. It's bouncing Or this is where the volume was. I don't look at it like that. I see a fair amount of randomness in there Okay, yeah, there are different types of move. There's you know, there's chop and this was you know I'll just classify that as chop if I had to you know, put a bracket around it It's chopping around sort of, you know certain price But I'm not trying to do like to find patterns there I'm looking at that thinking there's a lot of randomness going on in this market. I'm just trying to you know I'll just try and pick up from that And of course if you transfer the information from a DOM into a more visualized form, you know, particularly charts, right Then you're adding there's a time component in a chart, for example, right? You're adding a subjective filter And often it's done to create patterns people that use charts often That's what they're doing it for they want to create a pattern. They want to see a shortcut there You know note that on the DOM We don't see time You know, there's no we don't see trades over time You know and even the time and sales it just all disappears off down. It's just a series of prints, right? We see raw trade by trade data. I think that's really important for me and for how I trade Why because that's how markets work trade by trade Again, I've got a video on my youtube channel why short-term traders shouldn't use charts And I'm not and I'm not talking about the Heatmap and I'm talking about charts To me charts are just a completely skewed and subjective way of looking at markets And I just can't see how short-term traders would ever want to use them And I explain that why in more detail in that video. So what I like about the DOM Well, I use it. It shows me in a very objective way. What's happening? Trade trade trade trade trade. That's all it. That's why I want to look at it. I want to see the information as objectively as possible That's what I like about the DOM. I think if the DOM is so powerful in that respect You know, I can't visualize it and put it into um into patterns and trends and things like that because as soon as I start doing that I cease to be objective and as a market maker in particular or the market maker's style I must be objective as soon as I start putting it into we're in a trend now Objectiveness is gone. Right if I'm looking at something and it's in an uptrend And I look at that and I see it in an uptrend. My objective. This is gone It's going to be harder for me to trade this properly because I'm going to be biased and I don't want to be I actually just want to see where what's trading now Where is it now and you know because we're trading for just a couple of ticks You know, even if it went down to ticks now, that's good enough for me So more about what we're trying to do when we're looking at the DOM and and what we're and the way we're building I'm I will show a couple of examples. I'm building towards it But you know when you look at it, you're you're going to just see something and you want to go That's nothing right? So there is a lot behind it We try to identify weaknesses in certain players and exploit them. That's really one of the ways I've developed this over time um So I'm typically trying to trade against retail traders They're the weakest traders and they're consistently weak and I don't expect them to be better next year or in five years or in 10 years All right, the majority of them I'm trying to stay away from big players. Frankly. I don't really want to try to guess what their game is or something that I've said before So don't don't get asked on many webinars, but I did when I made a comment once People try to try to figure out what the big guys are doing and I've made the comment that If you think you can guess what the big players are doing Either you're wrong Or they're rubbish And if it's a rubbish big trader, it doesn't really matter about following them, right? That's that's my view. I'm not trying to play that game I've I've been that player. I've been that big trader a bank and you know, I know what it's like from the other side um I'm not trying to do that. Again. It's like, you know Pre-covid and I hope to get back to the stakes very soon You know, I do like my trips to vegas and play poker again If I'm looking if I'm in a casino and I see two poker tables and one's full of You know 60 year olds in hawaiian shirt sipping margaritas and one table's full of 25 year old europeans with hoodies dark sunglasses and uh and air pods in I want to go to the hawaiian shirt table to play All right, I I'm just gonna I just want to make money. I want to play on the easiest table Okay So that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to find the easiest and what I you know That's as I say an aspect that I've really refined over the years because the big players got better and better um And more and more weak retail traders joined if you go back to when I started in 99 There was very few retail traders. The platforms were expensive. There was no proper internet trading So back then it was just like being on the floor, but um on a screen But now there's a lot more retail traders so more and more joined as I said that they're not really looking like they're gonna be improving anytime soon So I really started to change them on To what are their weaknesses? How can I exploit them and you know their weaknesses are pretty consistent. So that's what I'm trying to base this on as well So we're trying to do very short-term trades Literally just making a couple of ticks hold, you know, what can we make in this? You know second or two seconds that we have it people often ask me Oh, you know your method you're trading for one tick. It's not really one tick. It depends on the market It depends what it gives you depends on the pace of the market as well Um, what can it give me in the time that I hold the trade then it might be like a couple of seconds I don't really believe that there's edge in any markets are very long So even though I do think I have a bit of edge here. I don't think it's going to still be there in five or 10 seconds time Um, and so I think that you know Couple of seconds max one or two seconds. I'll be able to pick someone off If I hold it if I hold anything longer than that, I'm probably being picked off um So it's a higher frequency form of trading If I if you think about like trading for two ticks a lot of people don't like it But how many of those trades are there in a day in a session? There's like, you know, obviously there's hundreds thousands of them Um, I don't need to get a high percentage of them. And if I miss one, you know Unlike new york cabs on a friday afternoon. There's another one coming along in a minute, right? There's another one every second of these two tick three tick trades potentially We can't we don't we don't want to get on all of them. Some of them are not good for us um There's certainly hundreds or thousands of possibilities here. So as a professional I value frequency And again, uh, you'll see even some of the biggest hedge funds in the world You'll know are running high frequency styles of trading professionals tend to value frequency more than the size of the profit I'm not really interested in trades that make 30 40 50 ticks. It's not My game. It's not the game that I've ever played really. I want to make Small but frequent the power of compounding small amounts the fact that there are so many of them I value that frequency again very Different and I wrote an article about that as well on my newsletter, uh, maybe a couple of months ago or so So we want to be in and out of the order flow without being visible and you know, because we're not using levels or or any commonly used indicators chart patterns anything like that We should be invisible, you know, no one should really be able to see what we are. We should trade small size Okay, we we don't want to be big players. We need to be able to get in and out quickly Uh, I think the the largest of my students I've seen You know in slow conditions traded like up to 20 lots. Yes Um, I wouldn't personally trade that size. I'm always preferred to trade small We don't want to be big players We're not training home runs. As I said, we're looking for small trades. We're just grinding out here now every day Just, you know, just trying to grind these out Um Because we're not waiting around for key levels It means that people particularly, you know, as they're learning and they can trade around their work hours You just need to find a market that's that's active, you know out of ours and it may well be urex, you know I'll put a plug in for my sponsor But you know, they've got some good contract trading in urex So, you know, maybe before or after work, you would, you know, you would trade on on an open market But because we're not waiting for levels, it's you know, there's we can trade anywhere at any time potentially And if the market is quite liquid and and uh and has a good pace to it So I think that's a that's a benefit as well. Whereas if you're trading them over swing style You know, if you're not available at the time where, you know, it hits certain levels, you know, you could miss it for the day It does require a much higher level of focus and intensity to to watch traditional retail traders and low frequency stars And one of the benefits of a low frequency style where you trade once or twice a day or whatever looking for levels is It's a very low intensity form of trading This is not, you know, when we're in and out in a couple of seconds and we're trading potentially dozens of times It's a lot higher intensity and and I understand completely that for a lot of people. This is just not the style they're going to want Um, it's it's difficult. It takes time to build the stamina Um, and you know, I compare it as well Like if you think about the intensity and focus of professional sportsmen to amateurs, it's a completely different game, you know at the pro level Um, and you know, I I play a lot of sports and coach sports as well at a reasonable level in some of them If for example my soccer coaching But still that level of intensity is not up to where Liverpool is or or anything like that, of course, you know That level of intensity is just quite frightening at sometimes, you know I don't think I could ever get to that level of intensity at sport. Um I can't simplify what this is. I don't want to simplify. I don't want to try and find a less Intense form. It's what I've done since I was 18. I'm comfortable at it Um, and you know, I've seen enough people be able to transition to it. But for a lot of people. Yeah, it's out of comfort zone um Why is the uh slide stopped? So it's on the what it is uh, slide. Yeah. Yeah The uh, it's locked. Huh give me one second It's decided it doesn't want to uh Continue and it won't let me escape. I'm really sorry about that. Hold on a sec Maybe uh try to force force quit it maybe Guys in the meantime, uh, please hit the like button Subscribe to the channel here. Uh, this is a very uh unique content here. Um, so, uh, I hope you, uh, You like it and appreciate it. Um, so yeah, it's Uh, something that you're you're not going to find in many places You're able to just take over sec bruce. Um, yeah, sure. Sure. Uh Hello, I can't get off this is saying that control shift escape. Maybe uh, I'm on a mech by the way. Ah, okay I've never had this lock like this before So this is Yeah, chorey. This is amazing. I mean, uh, like I said, I mean a complete expert here, uh in order flow trading Uh and don't no power point Hmm Okay Uh, hold on one second What I want to give me a tip is it's never happened before You can try you can try to um, uh Deselect the share your screen and then re uh, and then see if that helps. Yeah, that's the thing I can't get anything. I can't do anything. Ah, I see. No, okay. So so mac is kind of locked up Yeah, which has never happened Huh, uh, hold on a sec. Yeah, that's what I was asking to uh comrad Uh is to try to use the task manager as a mac though And try to try to force some mac Yeah, I don't even exit the share screen Sorry bruce. I have no idea what happened here. Hmm um, if you if you like, uh, um Well, I don't I don't know how much more you have, uh, gary Uh, oh, you're gonna be about I want to get a couple of examples. I want to show you Yeah, I'm sure everybody wants to see what it's like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well you're you're you're holding us. Uh, yeah If we're gonna think there's something suspicious about that, just to get to the examples is I've just I've got no idea why this is doing this. It's never done that before. I've done a million presentations to various ways Uh, I mean, maybe you can try if you if you want to exit and come back in Uh, and we can reshare your screen. I can't get out of the whole screen. You can't you can't even uh Well, can you can you quit? I guess I'm the one holding the presentation. So you just need to come back into discord And uh, I can't do that Ah, you so can you restart somehow? Your machine can entirely yeah, I'm gonna do that. Yeah, okay We'll see you back here and in the meantime. I've got something to show some people. So Uh, I'll I'll look for you in discord, but uh, I'll I'll just kind of take over for the moment All right guys. Um, so, uh Boy, it's even hung up here in discord, which is really weird. Um So, uh, uh, he shouldn't be projecting any longer But uh, yeah, he's completely hung up. Um, I don't know if you're still in there. Uh, the task manager In mac is command option Uh escape Yeah, thanks a trade trader. Um, I'm getting trying to get the um Uh, the correct doc here. I have it here now. So try this one here This is the doc document to share Or or to give your feedback on that dome So let me uh, I'll show it to you guys too. Uh, so let me let me put it back into the chat here See if this one works for you. It should Okay, uh, and uh, yeah, and and I know that I mean boy, we have, uh, some of gary's followers Using our dome pro product And others and and they are they've got given us just very very precise feedback on exactly what they're looking for That's what this document is for. So, uh, uh, we will address your needs So be very articulate in here with with what you're looking for like position in q. Uh, hello was asking for that That's already on the backlog. Uh, we're already in in the process of that Okay. So, uh, let me show that document here. Here it is. Uh, and um, I just put it into the chat for you guys. Uh, so You know go through it here. Uh, and please give your feedback And and ratings in here, uh, it's it's not very long. Uh, just a few pages With lots of images on it. So, uh, really appreciate your feedback. We will, uh, address your needs Okay, so you can see positioning q already, uh in some of these here. So we're already Already on it in the mbo data here. Um, the the other thing, uh, was the, uh, As I had mentioned before the Sale that we're having right now, uh for black friday So if you guys want to give bookmap a try then go for it. Uh, this is this is your chance You can get 50 off for the first month and give it a shot See if you like it fall come to our discord events and our youtube events. We have discord traders all day long Follow along see if something resonates with you Use bookmap along with it to gain some some insight And see if you can really optimize your edge in trading And this is a really nice offer for uh for the first month and give it a shot. See if see if you like it Use the coupon code here It's just go to our website and and then click on the hero image on the front there and it'll take you to this Slash black friday page Okay, so, um There's that. Uh, I went already over the Dome pro new features That we're looking for here. Uh, and then There was uh, there was something else in here as well I believe hold on a minute Oh, yeah in bookmap. Uh, yeah, I can I can show you guys If you're interested in this dome pro product the one that you'll need to get here is global plus Okay, that's that's important to know so, you know, it's not 99 bucks for the first month It'll be 49 uh 50 for the first month So give it a shot try it see if you like it you can connect to rhythmic data Uh for 39 bucks for the month as well. Uh, let me show you where you get that So if you go to bookmap.com here click on the more button And then you go to the bookmap marketplace here. Okay, so I'm just going to open this up in a new tab Uh, and then in here you'll see all this is the bookmap marketplace and rhythmic sells their data here So you can get it right here from rhythmic. Okay, it's not connected to a broker Uh, if you Have a broker and they offer rhythmic just call them up and say I want to use rhythmic so ninja trader for example, uh, they offer it, uh, and um Uh, you'll need to ask them though. Okay, ninja brokerage offers it Uh, there are a handful of other brokers that offer it. Uh, there's like five or six Okay, so uh that that uh, we're partners with that we know of Uh, and I can show you where that list is as well. Um, but it's on the knowledge base But uh, you know just want to mention you need to have rhythmic or cqg for that dome pro All right, and you can get it right here. So if you like just trade cme you can see it's 39 bucks a month if you trade, um Just nine x or crude oil is 39 bucks a month You can get the bundle here for 99 dollars a month From rhythmic. Okay, and you can trade all four of these different exchanges here It's the cme bundle. All right, but if you just need cme and you trade the stock indexes is 39 bucks a month That's very reasonable. So basically for the first month, uh, you're looking at, um, Uh, you know 90 bucks up and running come to the webinar events learn about order flow and Uh, it reach out to gary. Uh, you've got his his contact information or his um, his websites in here, uh, and uh, You can go directly there and check out, um The nordin method And then gary nordin.com Uh here, okay, so I'm putting these links. I put I put them in the in the chat multiple times here Uh, so if you guys are interested in this stuff Now your screen is blank. Does anyone else see okay, so hold on a minute Uh, gary, I don't see you in here now I'm coming in. Oh, there you are. Okay Yep, I hear you Yep, okay, cool And let's see should we try again? Yeah, let's try this again And uh, once you start sharing your screen it should pop up There it is. Alrighty what it is. Okay What it is. Yeah, okay. Let me just bring that. I'm just gonna keep that down the bottom Sorry about that everybody. It's been a long day right So I was going into randomness Did that Okay, so now we're going to have a look at just basically a couple of trades To have a look what it looks like. So I told you what it is. There's a lot behind it when you're going to look at this You're going to go doesn't look like much And uh That was a trade We'll have a look at this one again. This is I think there's two trades here. We'll have a look at this one here This is what it will look like in a dom as a short trade Uh short trade in and out you can see it's in and out within a couple of seconds This second trade, I actually wouldn't say this is a great trade. Um It's okay. It's just a one tick winner. Okay, but that's what it looks like that You know, they're both okay trades the first one was better than the second Um, but that's how it looks like and as I say it looks like that's nothing much in that right But there's a lot behind it because if you do the wrong time in the wrong Place with the wrong order book in the you know He just obviously he's a million ways for it to go wrong. So That's what it will look like. That's that's one form of it. Right. That's how one person trades it, right? um And yeah, as I said that probably doesn't show a lot but that that's how it looks and that's all you need to do right is just Make a tick here just get in get out in a couple of seconds do that How many times can I do this a session? How many times can I do that session in out? um That's all it is a couple of ticks Um one tick two ticks three ticks for whatever it gives you. Okay. That's what it gives you um, just something I know that Book back now have a jacket, right? I don't know if that's based on what I was doing, but um One thing I did to try and get my students to think of themselves like locals To think of themselves. I brought in the the red jacket. So locals in the on the floor wore red jackets Um, that just meant that these were people that were trading with their own money for themselves So I have these made in Chicago For there is an exam at the end of the red jacket course for my students And I only give your red jacket if they pass first time and the pass rate by the way It's not one of those everybody wins. It's uh, there's an 80 pass rate. There's a reasonably high failure rate of that exam but again, I wanted to make this realistic in the Not everybody wins in the markets So I didn't want an exam and and and a process that this is everybody wins even though people say, oh, you know paid for it Pay for the course, but the jacket themselves they need to be earned You need to earn a red jacket. So there's a reasonable failure rate of them of people that don't pass first time I also want to concentrate my students mind in terms of don't just rush out and take an exam and take the course I want them to think carefully about the exam because the exam also tells us whether they've Understood what's in the course So I want people to slow it down and think about it But you know, I give out red jackets and you know, I have given out a number of them around the world and that's really cool But not easy. Just one thing I wanted to mention. This is something that I added to the site. It was it was a late thing didn't really Yeah, he just didn't know how it was going to go But I called it the exchange and originally it was just to have monthly meet-ups I have like a monthly meet-up with with my students and talk about things that I've seen But I added this thing called grade my trade and what it is is that my my students Actually send in like the videos of their trading And they send it to me for assessment and you know, what I will do is I will go over them and I will narrate them and upload them into the exchange So what what it means is that everybody gets to see how everybody's doing or other people are doing But done through the the context of I narrate and everything that's good or bad about the session, you know, I narrate, you know This is a good trade. This is why this is a bad trade and narrate everything about it and it's actually become like the I would say the most significant part of the whole project now I started that a year ago and interestingly I had no idea how this would go So the first few videos that were sent in from the first few people were awful They were really bad, but I put them on and I had no idea at that point how this was going to go I expect my students to do well, but as I say, this is the first time I'd gone out with a public product to the retail market Um, and the first videos come back with terrible, but and I'm everybody knows me will know I'm brutally honest, right? So I just smashed it right. I just smashed these people like this is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong But what's been brilliant over the last year that so that's been going is we've watched these traders And their second video and third video three months later four months later Got better and better and some of these guys are really excellent traders now There's been some brilliant and in general the quality of videos that I get now are much better And obviously people that are joining now, you know, and if they subscribe to the exchange They get to see dozens of videos of other students And I think what's really cool about this is that sometimes, you know Um, when you listen to people or you talk to people on forums and that people will say, you know I'm doing this and I'm doing that and you never really know but here, you know We have 100 know what these people are doing because there's a video of it and I'm narrating it so that you know And I think what's also interesting is that people will sometimes send in a video to me and say, you know I did this as you said Gary and and it didn't work. You know, what's that about and What's interesting is that what they thought they did they didn't actually do Which is just like me on the golf course right when I go back to my pro and say I did that with the Rip and it's not working and he said show me and it's like I'm not doing what he taught me Right. It's very common and it's it's so interesting to see that people think they're doing something And and and then when I've gone through I said no actually you're not and explain why they're not and put the video up So this has been really interesting Uh, it was you know, I had no idea at the start of it how this would go I've been really happy with it. I think it's been, you know, I've taught at every investment bank that I work at I've taught traders, um, you know, I can still consult and try to and teach People in the pro world. This has been the most powerful tool. I've I've ever had I think learning from other people is really important. It's all I've learned a lot from watching other people and this is a really fascinating experiment and um, I've really enjoyed to watch how this has worked as well And I say it's so what people can also see is they can see the journey of others and they can see what it's like And it's not like one week or two weeks It's it takes months to get this likely would take months for me to reconfigure my golf swing Um, but people can see what it looks like and how difficult it will be and and that process and the process is incremental and small And you know, you watch how people make changes So I've been really it's been a fascinating thing to watch that and the other thing is I sort of hinted earlier I've seen some Mistakes, but in particular biases in in people's trading that I never thought existed I never knew existed and that's fascinating And I've you know, I've plans to add to the course now Because of these things I've seen it in so many videos that so many people have the same make the same mistake That I never even knew existed that now I need to add something to the course so that new people can hopefully avoid that And I find that really fascinating and I've never dealt with retail traders in this way before so I'm learning myself Just for the future for what I'm for the site. I'm working on a new tool for the first students And just constantly trying to improve things, you know, I continue to cooperate You know, hopefully as well with with the bookmap guys, but also brokers and exchanges like, you know, I talk to urex a lot and others Really my my passion is futures, you know futures markets I want to promote futures trading. I think they're the fairest product out there for people to trade And I really want to promote futures and I'm really pleased that, you know, I have the opportunity with urex and brokers and and people to to help do that Like I say, I'm not trying to offer an easy solution. This is very difficult. It's a different style But for a lot of people, you know, for the some people they they they love it and it's for some people it's not I have a an options course coming out soon. It's not it's not anything like this It's more of an informational based options course options sort of website just to help people Starting out in options. It's also, you know, my main passion actually is options actually so I've got something coming out there as well. So Um, yeah, I'll just you know say, you know, thanks to to everybody for listening. I will take Any questions that you want to chuck at me? Um, and you know, I know I've probably you know stirred a bit of controversy perhaps at times today Um, but you know, I'm happy to to support what I say There's you know, my things my books and the newsletter as well. And I also again want to say thanks to urex Who sponsor what I do And of course say thanks to to bruce and the guys at um book map For inviting me on today and for doing that. So thank you Yeah, sure. No, thank you gary. I mean like uh, you know, like like I had said It is rare to to get this kind of This kind of data or this kind of information on trading so very very happy to Have you on here and we haven't had someone like like yourself It's a very specific thing And as you guys can see A very unique gary is looking for something Very specific and with his background You know professional background here. Uh, he Finds an edge. Um, I don't know how many times a day Uh, that's actually a question gary. Like I know you've mentioned this in the past. I've heard you talk about it. Um, about mental focus And um, uh, because there's so many opportunities Uh, and the markets are always moving so quickly How do you How long can you go? Uh You know, how when what hours do you trade? Um, and it leads into all sorts of other questions. Like maybe you find more kind of imbalances opportunities during during fundamental events, uh, like f1c or you know, something like this, uh, so Yeah, it's a good question. So I find uh, you know, I call that the sort of stamina that for for new traders They sort of have to build towards it. Um, but even for myself, you know, I might work in 30 40 minute increments, right and then have a break Um, but I you know because of my background, I've you know, I'm stood in a pit for Eight hours a day. I've been you know, when you work in an investment bank I would get in at five in the morning and leave at like seven eight at night. So, you know Trading all day is important, but I actually was talking at my monthly meeting this week I was something I was thinking I did a podcast My own one like a pilot with interviewed a couple of old trading powers of mine from London And one thing that it sort of prompted me reminded me of some things that always through my career Um, I would wander away from the trading desk or the trading pit for a time, right? You have to go away and sort of refocus, you know, just just go away and chill for a bit So 30 40 minutes go away relax a little bit come back do more with my students I find that generally 30 40 minutes at a time is too much to begin with Um, but when I'm out, you know, really good students. In fact, he was the one that Um, his first couple of videos were shocking like really bad and I just ripped him absolutely ripped him I don't name people by the way. It's anonymous, right? I actually give people, um, mnemonics like the floor So I give these my students mnemonics and so people only know them by the mnemonics, but I you know, I ripped him But you know, he's he's video, you know, he's trading got better and better He went live and now he's doing great and I put up a video of his Uh, about a month or two ago and it was 30 minutes But in fact the way he'd done it was he just he was 10 minute blocks. That's what he does 10 minutes has a break for five or 10 comes back does 10 minutes in that 30 minute block in total He did about 27 trades. I think it was something like that mid to high 20s. Um, which is a reasonable number Um, and you know, he traded it well and breaking them down into 10 minutes was really good. I think he had One loss two scratches or two scratches one loss and the rest winners are 24 something like that And you know, he breaks it into 10 I've seen other students and I've narrated videos where You can see that the trading starts to get ragged after like 15 18 minutes And I've said that and I've told my students you've got to recognize when you're getting a bit ragged And you've got to step away, you know, and there's like 15 minutes of really good trading And then there's four minutes at the end of absolute garbage where they've given back, you know, too much pnl You've got to realize when as soon as you're getting a bit ragged and stop straight away It does, you know, I can't take that away. It does require focus and intensity But when you see people like skilled at it and do it well after over time it becomes a bit easier Over time it's like everything if you imagine the focus Um, you use when you first get into a car. You've never driven before All of those things that you have to think about, you know I can remember what I was like growing up in London learning to drive All those things you think about at the start mirror signal maneuver You know, all those things change gear clutch down, you know, accelerator up Doing all those things you're trying to process it. It's really hard, right? And you drive around a city when you're 17 for 30 minutes And I remember at the end of my driving lessons I was frazzled Absolutely frazzled, but now although a lot of those things you don't even think about anymore So it's a bit like that in the early days. It's so much to think about so many different things. It's really hard But over time it should become easier as you become more skilled and it becomes a skill It does become once people become you can see that those trades are in and out quickly Once you do it for a long period of time and you get better at it It becomes a skill. It's almost instinctive and at that point it becomes quite powerful I think that's what I really like about it as well is it becomes more powerful And I think that's that's pretty cool. But the the path to get there is difficult. Sorry. I've probably spoken too long there No, not at all. Um, a really really good analogy there, uh, with with driving and just like the the amount of concentration But then look at us, you know after Some years of driving. I mean like, uh, you know, all of that just comes naturally, uh, so But I mean there is a there is a tax mentally and and the focus and I would imagine and you're you're confirming that so No, uh, they're they're let's go down to some other questions. I do Gary, I don't know if you want to take a look at my screen right now I I want to I have the dome here a dome pro on on the right hand side For the es and then this new product that we developed here and I wanted to show you this I'm just going to briefly show this because I want to get into the questions However, uh, this is really interesting. We filtered the liquidity heat map here And for example, it's called the trader map pro Uh, and um, we can offer this this filter with the MBO data From the CME and now what I filtered here for is 10 contracts or more Uh, anything less than that do not show so You know This is going to lead into and that that's why I'm showing it is it leads into some, um Algorithmic behavior and market making behavior. I don't know This looks to me like it's spot on like larger player Potentially market maker activity up here Look where they're offering up here and then they pull it away and then quickly Offer liquidity down here get filled a little bit pull it away Both on the bid and on the ask and look at the range that it kind of designates here so Just uh, something interesting uh that we Uh, I now have in this trader map pro Uh And if you had any comments on that not not on the product so much about about market making behavior Um, I would say that I'd be careful about Yeah, I think that the the the product and being able to filter is is very interesting Right the idea of being able to look at different size players and what they're doing is is is pretty cool. Um There are not a lot I think of proper market making style people. There are obviously hfts and algos involved um, but generally those professional standard higher frequency traders Are trading In a time frame that that's just not going to affect most of us even for me They're in and out in in infractions of seconds All their orders are you know in and out in in time for hours actually talking to my mate, you know, but it's yesterday the guy I said to you who's He's a top top guy on uh on order flow as well a really good guy And you know, he made that point to me as well. He actually wanted me to put that in my in my newsletter that I I don't think I'm not worried but personally by by the high frequency traders As I say they they trade generally on a time frame. That's not going to affect me It's it's in you know fractions of seconds Yeah, pure if you're trading for half an hour, they know but the idea of filtering and seeing different stars of people call You know call call call That that's my take on it that that's that's that's my view gotcha. Okay. So it's just it's larger player activity. Um, yeah, uh and uh, but I mean that's something also like I just take a moment to reflect on about terminology And and it's in important to just like gary had just said When people talk about microstructure that means sub second Uh, so what that means is if you look at the s and p e mini and this is where book map actually came from and it's roots You're talking like something like this here. This is uh, uh, you know sub second levels And you start to see some of the details in here of really what's under You know unfolding in the market And gary is not trading at this level. Uh, and he says like it's no big deal to you That it's fine. Let let the algos, uh, battle out in those sub second levels. You're looking for opportunities Uh, uh on on a little bit different time frame So there was a question about that earlier. I just wanted to address that and also define As gary just did about the microstructure and understanding the algorithmic behavior happening within that microstructure So, um, that's good to hear gary, uh that so the algos you're really not worried about like that. Um, let them play their game 100% yeah, yeah, and you know, I I I did for a time consult to some few years ago I sort of stopped I I felt that again a bit like market making in general the the skillset dropped and I said I look at the start people think of My frequency training algos market making as front running It's true that that there's quite a lot of them that are set up to try and do that Um, I just think it's just a mistake. I just that that's just And you know, I got asked once to explain What market making is or when you know at the professional level and this is it To me a market maker is not whether you front run. It's your ability to fill an order And I did that with my podcast. It's on my youtube channel I was talking to two, you know two expels or both market makers as well and we all agreed with that. It was that Your market maker is your ability to fill big orders not jump in front of them Like when I'm a market maker in a bank in back in my day And I'm making prices as I did to all of the big hedge funds in convertible bonds citadel soros all of them had to make a price in big size They don't want me to jump in if I jumped in front of them all the time They're never coming back to my bank. I want them at my bank. I want their business. I need to fill them So I was brought up with the ability to make a price in much bigger than market size I could fill a big order That is the skill set that is lost and because that skill set is being lost A lot of the skills of market making that I had to develop to be able to do that have been lost And it's those sorts of skills that I try to pass on to people Um, and I said a lot of people it's it's hard nowadays because there's just not many people doing that anymore Because I love it's matched electronically for example. So the skill set has gone but and in some ways that's great, you know for for me of of course Um, but that's why there's a lot of misunderstanding about about market making on what they're doing That's another question actually gary. I had for you. I mean because You know for the last, um, you know A couple of decades there's been so much emphasis on Algorithmic high frequency trading etc that these skill sets are gone That took many years to develop. This is probably Golden days for you. I mean because uh, No one has these skills any longer. Uh, and uh, you you see the same kind of opportunities All the time and and no one knows how to take advantage of them I think I'm also looking at the videos from from my students, right because it's just not about me anymore And I know I can do it right so I don't have to worry about that But looking at the videos from my students and particularly since the exchange has been up So they can look at each other and they can get dozens of hours of Footage before they start trading looking at that. I agree. I think the hardest time was probably I would say mid mid 2000 Maybe 2012 15 something like that around that time. There are some different more difficult times Um, and it there was a lot, you know during sort of I suppose the boom of those hfts when you know and all that Flash boys and all that and it wasn't because they were taking edge away. They were just confusing the markets a bit they were confusing value And obviously a lot of those blew up ultimately, which is going to happen because you know the way they were being Way they were structured in the way they were developed So luckily they blew up and I would say looking at my students now that Yeah, I'm not saying it's easy But you know, I definitely think that there's watching people go from nothing to becoming decent traders And watching some of my students go from nothing to hedge fund You know, I do think that the skill set has more value now in many ways. So um Um, I think that's really cool. Um, and you know, I certainly never thought about that 15 20 years ago um I never thought these would die, but and it's interesting like I got approached Not too long ago. I uh A prop shop who made that switch to Sort of more algo style a number of years ago And it's just not working at all and now they want to go back to a more Annual market maker style, but there's no one that can teach it And I actually refused right? I didn't I'm just not doing I didn't do that. I didn't want to take that So there's nowhere to go back now. That's the problem as well This you know, it sounds like someone said to me on the last of the mohicans. It's like there's not many left. So um that unfortunately here for for In that in that environment that that's that's it's not going to come back. Um Which you know, I just say it's it's it's it is opportunity I find it quite sad because I I never thought of myself as being that way I don't want to really be the last of something but um, it's just the way it is Yeah, yeah, I mean, um, well, I I did notice I you know, uh, it was invited to come over and speak to your group Uh, and then we got lots of feedback from them really really good feedback Uh, and um The it was amazing to I mean here how dedicated uh, they are to uh, um You know trading from the doleman your method. I mean, I mean, they're very laser focused On and they know it precisely what they're looking for uh, so, uh, uh, yeah, that was uh, kind of shocking to me. I hadn't seen that uh from a lot of other educators there's more kind of like Kind of room to um You know do different things or something. Uh, it wasn't so laser focused No, we're very specific very targeted. You know the words I use a lot is you know targeted specific precise It's a very you know, and I said you can look at those videos that I posted and think doesn't look very much there But they are very precise precision is a huge part of it And you know in people send me a video, you know, I will pick up every small thing That it could be a mistake or might be wrong and one of the things is like I said there we showed a trade It was an all right trade, you know, but I don't just judge a trade by the p&l Now a trade can make money, but I might just I don't like that trade I don't if you continue to do that trade that start of trade over time you're going to lose Uh, and so, you know, I'm really picky in my um Uh in my narration and analysis of my students. Um, and yeah, I'm trying to drive them to a A hard point and sometimes I feel like I'm driving them too hard, but that's what I'm trying to do just trying to drive them To the highest they can get which you know, it's not necessarily a great comfort zone, but That's that's where I come from. That's what I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to replicate that pathway. Um We test in exams if you got the website up But you know one of the things is that you know, there's a this is an interesting thing I set up a Course a free course the yellow jacket with an exam at the end and you you can't buy any of my courses unless you pass that test And it's it's not difficult test. It's just a test about do you understand what futures markets are? And I had to take those tests before I was allowed in the pit I had to take nine of them before I was allowed to in an options pit Even though I'd been a market maker and investment bank for two years It doesn't matter if you want to get into a trading pit on the floor You had to take exams when I was at an investment bank I had to take exams when I became a market maker for international equities I had to take an exam And it's another thing when I looked at trying to replicate the pathway and journey that I took that Got me here. One of the things I realized was I took exams all the way. I took tests So I replicated that and the other week I had someone The way the website was working then Uh, you couldn't even find out what the price of the courses were until you'd pass this yellow jacket test And somebody just emailed us and said Look, you know, I really haven't got the time to do all this. Can you just tell me how much the course is? And I went no Someone that doesn't want to take the test that doesn't want to do that hard work I don't want as a student It's it's a really interesting sign people just want to do things easy. No, I won't make it easy I'm not going to do that and I and it's it's partly that's that gatekeeper for me to keep out people That want to things easy. I don't want that type of person as a student Um, and of course the other thing is there are people that are trading futures That perhaps don't understand certain things about futures and get caught on it You know, whether it's around expiry or things like that settlement or whatever Um, so the exam is making sure that you understand that. Um So yeah, again, I don't want to make that pathway easy In fact by slowing that pathway down and putting the exams and things in I just want to focus people a lot more. That was part of my journey Yeah, yeah, that's something also you don't hear from a lot of other educators is You know filtering and also making them accountable It's like if you want to move forward, you know, this is the path And you got to stick to it Something I yeah really commend you on as it's really really nice to been refreshing to hear Um, let let me let me get through some of these questions Really really quickly. Um, uh here for you gary So, uh, do you use a hard stop? Yes, I should have known that question was coming. Um Me personally, no Some clients yes um I personally don't I back myself discipline wise to to manage Uh Losses some people will put I can automate it so as as they feel they will or they'll put the bracket order to automate But maybe they won't use that stop loss So for example, they'll automate a stop loss eight ticks away And that's just basically if the computer shuts down or or things go horribly wrong But they'll manually try to exit right and so some people put that in I'm not a big fan of hard stops. I I do believe I I I prefer manual entry and exit I think you learn more If you get yourself in and out if you let the market get you out of trades I don't think you're learning that the exit Um strategy very well, but I do have a number of Students who do it. Obviously nq is a very fast market so I can understand that I don't trade nq personally A number of my students do on dax as well Um, but I can understand why you would have it. Uh, I personally just don't Okay, um, I imagine you're do you and your most of your students use stream dax Uh, no Okay, I was just curious on that one. Um, uh, so what markets do you like in the futures? Um, generally so we like faster markets Dinner markets, so I can say now we stay away from 10 years. All right. We stay away. That's just not It's got nothing in it for us Um, so I said that our Our goal is to exploit weaknesses of retail traders So we really want to try and focus on markets where there's a lot of retail traders You know, for example 10-year bonds of the ratio of retail to pros is very different from es for example, right? Um, so 10 years a lot of pros. Uh, it's a lot thicker It's you know, I feel like we're more likely to be picked off in 10 years So, uh, we don't trade them Um students so popular ones will be es and q dax. I think one reason perhaps why you know Your x got on to me. I'm not quite sure 100 percent But is because you know, I had a number of students do really well with dax and it's a very difficult contract And then frankly it's difficult for people if you use levels the dax does not trade around levels So if you're using levels, you're going to struggle, uh, you got to embrace randomness in the dax, which is what what I do Um, so dax, um, some of the so the last year I think 30s and ultras have been decent markets. Obviously, they've been big moves. They've got good tick sizes and that changes part of of The strategy in terms of number of trades and and things like that when you've got a much higher Tick value, right? So that can for some people that that's a good thing. You don't need to take as many trades And you can trade, you know I have lots in those contracts and you know, you have one a one tick winner on a five lot In in 30s, um, and it's a nice trade. You only have to find a few of those You know even four or five of those and you've done it, you know, they've had a reasonable session So those are the main markets. Um, I have had traders trade crude. I have traded crude myself It's a very interesting contract. It's very difficult contract It's I was fine with it But there were there were times that what I didn't like about crude my piano was okay Well, actually was pretty good actually at times But there were just times where something would happen and I just couldn't explain it And I just don't like that. I'm a bit of a control freak. I need to know what happened There will be times always where something random happened and it knocks you out But there were just when it happened in crude it wouldn't be a two or three tick loss. So I didn't like it I'd love to see I've said this to my students. I'd love to see You know soft commodity things like that people try I've never looked at those contracts at all No knowledge at all of of soft contracts, but Technically, you know, if there's enough retail involved, there could be a possibility but yeah, yes, thank you DAX 30s ultra is probably the the main ones. Yes, thank you being the two most popular Okay Yeah, that that was shocking for me to hear from you as well when I was asking some questions It's like no actually Bruce that those are the markets the the faster moving markets They're faster moving, but you you have lots of opportunities in there And trading from the dome can be I I don't know how people do it. Um, but Obviously, obviously you're doing it But I it's hard to hard to catch up with and read but uh, so there you go on on that one, uh, and Let's see any other questions in here. Uh um I know you you had mentioned that the um Uh, you you know, you trade the futures. Uh, I'm wondering about stocks though, uh, and there's a question in here about that Yeah, um, couldn't be not possible on most Stock platforms around the world depends on the platform But for example, if you're in the u.s. And your trading shares that are routed through a market maker Um, they're taking that edge away, right? So we can't trade against another market maker um, so If depending on which country you're in if your stock market trades like a futures market where you can trade directly against other retail traders Then great it's possible But stocks don't tend to move they're not really designed that way You know, they're moving in a couple of cents, you're gonna, you know, and if you want to trade in small size on a couple of cents It's uh, it's not a big deal. So really that's something that is for the banks that have a much lower cost But if you have to trade You know through a platform where orders are routed through a market maker. No, it's not going to be possible Okay Um, let's see here. I mean it looks like a lot of the questions are kind of overlapping and we've you've answered Most of them are already uh A lot about hft And um, yeah, I think that's a bit of uh A red herring the hft I was actually having a big discussion this last night and as I said Another guy very knowledgeable about professional trading hfts as well been in that industry been around just said You know, this I've said this for years as well I don't know or thought I was a lone voice, but I'm glad that other pros will back me on this That we're not trading against them. We're really not and For two reasons I've said number one is because they don't trade like proper market maker style do many of them Just people design them. We're not that way. And secondly, they're trading at a time frame. That's not It's just much shorter than us Yeah, yeah And uh, one more question flow has been asking several times. What about the asian in indices like uh, mj and k Yeah, so again, this is something I've asked my students about, um I you know over the years. I've traded a lot of japan But so I have used these styles in japan. I had uh, I have a student that was trading Hang seng I only saw one or two videos from it. I quite like what I saw actually But I think it can be a very difficult contract. I thought I think it takes a long time Um to to master, but I've only seen Um, yeah, like one or maybe two videos on hang seng from clients Um, so I can't comment too much about that And obviously know that, you know, obviously futures markets in india korea very very popular with retail traders Um, so there's you know, there could be possibility. I'd love to see it. I'd love to see obviously, um more people Try it. I don't have you know, I don't do any marketing or anything like that So people the only people I have are students people that find me. So My you know, my my client base is not large. So I don't know. I don't but in time I'd love to see more markets being traded this way to see Because the thing is like you said before There's no one else trading like this out there, which is you know, if you use these methods in On the hang seng or in korea or whatever You're going to be the only person doing it. So, you know, I'd like to I'd like to see it But you know at the moment, I don't know. Sorry Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah fair enough. Uh, let's see. Um So Someone's asking if the nq is a suitable instrument for your method or the es or the ub be more appropriate All of them, um, it's I'm interested that so many of my students went to a and q Even even after me saying, you know, it's going to be more difficult Than es it's interesting that everybody ignored that and just went to nq or a lot of people did Um, but on the really really volatile days like the really crazy days in nq You know, they shift back to es because there are some days in the nq where it's just not tradable, right? And again, I said at the start of this as I say to all my students your ability to succeed as a trader Over the long term will be based on your ability to stay out Can you stay out? Do you know the conditions that you shouldn't be trading? Um, so on the really busy days. Yeah, nq just gets too silly, right on a dom or anywhere You just it just goes crazy. Um, and that's just you know, because there's just too many market orders and and not enough um Not enough, uh, so normal orders are not enough liquidity in there. So Um, nq es both very very popular with my students. Um And that's you know, I'm cool with that. I think that's really cool um Okay, uh, just just a couple more here. Um, let's see nomad is asking Can you speak about how your process integrates with book map liquidity and order flow? um I know you kind of answered that And that he's also asking what a while he's asking the costs. There you go. Um Um Yeah, so, um Yeah, so I mean like, you know, your your pro dom is an excellent dom It it really is, you know, and I and I know and we've talked about this bruce That they were going to be improvements on it as well and new things and there's so much This is the thing people look at that dom like you've got up there now on the right hand side and they just see not much but I see a truckload of stuff going on Absolute truck you put that alongside of time and sales and a You know a couple of correlations and and there's just like so much information And then everything over time you just process that information really quickly And I don't want to cheap-fire what I do because there's a lot to it and I say it is precise But when it's done properly and I you know, whether it's a student or whatever me or whatever It can look like a complex video game Right where someone's just bam bam bam, you know And if you look at some of the video games that some of the kids play and it's one of the things I always wanted to do I wanted I did get approached by two people that were professional gamers And I was really keen to teach them. I just didn't happen I had a while I taught by the way a number of people from professional sports So before I had the site up I was contacted. I don't know how this was going on, but I was contacted by a number of ex-professional athletes around the world Um, and I was really interested to see How they would go and from different forms of of sport and some of them you may not even classify a sport But they were professional in what they did. So I'm talking about Uh, skydiving skateboarding basketball basketball or from european from north america So a number of people and it was really interesting an olympic swimming olympic standard swimming coach and what was really interesting was In general like I would say almost all of them became very good at it And one thing that they were big on which is something I talk a lot to my students about is the way they practice And they they said it appealed to them both because they knew the intensity that the workout they were they were comfortable with that intensity They were comfortable in being in the now As well, which was very interesting. So like if you know if you professional sport You've got to forget what happened five minutes ago. You've got to be in the moment, right? You you get taught that a lot in professional sport. These guys knew it and my style of trading is being the now forget what happened a minute ago Um, so they were comfortable that and they just knew how to practice So in the early days I want my people to practice not go live straight away practice practice improve improve gradually These guys were just brilliant at practicing and the whole point of practicing is it's responding to feedback Can you respond to it? This has gone wrong. Can I figure out why it's gone wrong? Fix it move on fix it move on and these guys were just brilliant at it because that's what they had done their whole professional career um So, you know, I again to put it back in that context that I was really Obviously really pleased with that and again, I think it just shows that the level it was But yeah to come back to my original point was about the the video game video game thing There's some very complex video games that you know that but when you see it done by someone It's really good. It looks quite straightforward And that's not to cheapen it because there's a lot of different moving parts to what we do Yeah, yeah, excellent excellent. Um, all right. Well, I think that we've taken enough of your time Gary, thank you so much. Uh, it's been about an hour and a half now and answered I think all of you guys questions, uh, at least I have and then in text as well as Gary here Uh, just wanted to follow up, uh, you can I put the links in several times. You can find Gary at, uh, the Norden method calm here, uh, as well as Gary Norden calm I asked or requested for your guys feedback on the dome pro new features here I put this into the chat for you as well. Uh, and if you're interested in, um, Gary's method And you want to try book map. There's the 50 off Black Friday right now at bookmap.com Just just a note on it. You will need to get the global plus version If you want to get access to that dome pro, that's where it's included It's included for free with it with the dome pro, uh, with the with the global plus version All right. Uh, any any other comments Gary before we leave? Um Yeah, just follow as you're offering something I if over the next, uh, let's say until End of December, I'll if people want to quote book map And they do want to Take one of the courses I'll offer Your people a 10% discount off either of the courses Just quote, you know book map When they're ordering and um, okay, so they'll just reach out to you here from your from your websites And the Norden method of website. Yeah, if they want to you know, if they want to say that and they and they're interested then Up until let's say the end of this December because we're almost in December now I'm happy to offer, you know, your people 10% discount off the silver or the red one. So just people know there's a silver badge Um, and a red they're the same course, but the red jacket course has like lots of video instructions The silver badge doesn't it's the same course in text. It's exactly the same thing But one has lots of videos and one doesn't both of them though, you know, even if you took the silver badge You are able then to participate in the exchange Um, obviously, there's not you don't get access to the red jacket either all the red jacket exams So, um, yeah, happy to you know, if people want the same questions, I'm happy to answer them It's never a problem. Okay. Excellent. So I'm just putting that into the chat here in discord as well as YouTube there. So just mention go to go to the Norden method.com uh reach out to Gary And uh mention book mapping you'll get 10% off the silver or the red courses Uh, and then uh, that's that And my apologies for the what happened with the the computer I'm really sorry about that those max. It's a mac thing. I know Uh, thanks again gary, uh, and uh, hope we can do another one. Thanks for bugging me. Okay. All right. Take care