 I don't give a crap if you covered yourself in peanut butter and had a 15-hooker gang bag! Bruh! That's a hot mug, guys! Hey guys, we're back here. It's been a while. It's been a bit. Today's Halloween, and as Mark pointed out earlier when we were watching this, this is the 18th anniversary of the release of the first Saw film. This film is legal in here, no? No, Alberta and Montreal. I know they did the Paramount Activity Movies after too, but this was a tradition for a while. Like, Halloween was Saw. You knew what you're getting, and this is when it started it all off, was 04. Not only did it start off that trope, it started off James Wong's career. It started off the writer's career. Yeah, Lee Winnell, who's also acting this, and fortunately doesn't act a whole lot anymore. Which, who is he? He's Adam. He's the other guy? Yeah, he's Ezra Miller. He looks a lot like Ezra Miller. It was just funny because, like, really, that would be the true horror. He'd be locked in a room of Ezra right now. Did you want to fight? Yeah, no, it started that. This guy also went on to write and direct, upgrade, and The Invisible Man. Truly speaking, while some of the parts of this film have definitely aged, it is 2004. Kidnap you and drug you before you know what you're lying in a bathtub and your kidneys are on eBay. Certain parts still hold up, and it's still pretty impressive that they put this together with the budget that they had, and they all filmed in one building. One location, they shot it in 18 days. Like, I love one location more. 18 days? Yeah, apparently it was only 18 days. Okay, yeah, the poor man's car stuff doesn't make sense. They definitely knew how to use their budget in this movie. The gore is great. It's fun. I mean, it basically, you know, this and maybe, like, Eli Roth's hospital really started the, like, torture-borne thing. Which is funny because this isn't really that. It doesn't, they called, they used it a lot for that? The other movies would turn into that. But this one is, it's a story that just so happens to have this slightly torture-forming stuff, which appears at the beginning, and then it doesn't appear again until the end. Other than a few staccato flashes. Yes. Oh, god. The ecstatic, like, the... I mean, we're talking about... We're talking about doing this whole franchise, and I really like the first song of the year. I basically don't like any of the others. Like, there's some merit to some of them, and I think I like three and four a little bit. Three has probably one of the best slash awful, most awful deaths in the entire series. And then, for some reason, five comes to mind for having, like, a script that's just above brain dead. I literally can't tell you any differences. Like, I know three is the one where he dies, right? Yes. Where they kill the main killer in their jigsaw franchise. Actually kind of looking forward to rewatching them, because most of them I've only seen once. Exactly, same for me. I think I've seen the third one a couple of times, and then the first one, and then maybe the second one twice, but aside from that, this is kind of going down a very big memory to still have to live on. I like how Juan puts this film together. It's definitely put together by guys who are just budding into this. Like, these guys would go on to hone their skills from this film exceptionally. I mean, James Owen is a true master of horror, and this is like our first introduction to him. Like, this is his first major movie. I mean, I like the reference to the fact that it's a story movie, because there is a story to this. We have several characters, lots of twists and turns. There's all sorts of, like, things going on. We've got like Danny Glover and his partner. We've got, like, what's going on with Dr. Burton's kid and wife. We've got them in the bathroom. We've got all this other kind of backscoring and flashbacks we're getting. Like, there's a lot going on in this movie, and... It's all connected together. It comes together really well. Yeah, especially in the final climax, and it's not just because of the banger track. You murder a mother and her child to save yourself. Which, admittedly, has to be said. How long did they have? They had three weeks. Yeah, Charlie Closer. Closer, I'm not sure. I've never really known the pronouncing name of Closer, whatever. He had three weeks to put this score together, and, I mean, honestly, it's fine for the most part. I think he just put the theme together. The rest of the score is, I mean, it's a lot of industrial driving, like, ambience. Which, you know, I mean, is very 2004. But like that, I think it's called Hello Zep, is the actual name of the track. But it became, like, the Saw theme. That just like... Yeah, and... You know what I'm saying? It just felt good. The series would eventually go into its own tropes of literally having a major twist reveal with the theme at the end of every film. This one, it works, obviously. The story for that, it's great. I love the way it does. There's, like, before we get kind of the ending. Like, I love everything leading up to it. I think it's great the way they introduced this whole Jigsaw character. They do try to lean in that maybe it's the Doctor, and then maybe it's Zep, and maybe Lee Winnell's character, like Adam, the other guy in the bathroom. Maybe he has trouble going on. They do really well kind of creating these, like, different lines. I mean, watching it now, we all know what's turned out, but I mean, I saw this movie on Halloween in 2004. I think I saw it as a double feature with the grudge. They kept me guessing the whole way through, and everything's really well done. I mean, the scene, although watching it here, it seemed brighter than I remember. But the scene where Lee Winnell's Adam is in his apartment in the dark, and he's using his flash, they're like, oh man, that seems stressful and great. It's creepy. And it's got that, like, pseudo Texas Chainsaw Massacre film click sound. And then, like, the reveal, the flash goes, and the pigmen jumps out. Like, it's so cool. Like, even the laugh of the doll. Billy the doll, we should mention, like, the horror icon. Yeah, it's funny because I always remember the doll. I forget the pig face. Yeah, but I mean, that's the thing. It's like, that doll, it was great. I mean, I'm pretty sure it actually makes a cameo in their next movie, Dead Silence as well. I think so. I mean, he should. The movies about dolls. You're bringing that up, like, the production design. Can we watch Dead Silence instead of watching Jigsaw again? Yeah, basically. The last one's just garbage. I think that the production design, like, went into a lot of detail. Like, the room with a guy who has to try and find the combination on the wall. Yeah, that's really well done. The barbed wire's really well done. Even the room that, like, Shawnee Smith's in for her reverse bear trap thing, which I guess is probably the most, like, famous trap in the movie. Yeah, it's the one that people remember. And they bring it back later in the franchise too, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, they did. Oh, god. They also used it as part of their pitch video when they were trying, like, in addition to the short, they shot a scene where Lee Winnell's character wears the reverse bear trap and did that scene. So they knew what they were getting and they designed most of the shit themselves. Oh, yeah, that was the idea with all of these tortures and all of these traps and whatnot. In the first few movies, they actually were kind of coming up with them. They had to create them off the top of their head. But then as this started becoming a franchise spewer, they were just going and looking at obscure medieval torture methods, which just helped propel the series into this complete absurdity that would be known for us. For the most part, it's grounded. There are some of them where it's just like, okay, fuck, no one could do that one, particularly the one with the combinations on the wall. I always hate that one, because it's like, man, no one could fucking do that one. I hope his hands weren't covered in that flame stuff, because the moment it picks up, the drop. Yeah, exactly. And the fact that the candle is like dying too. So some of them, obviously, are a little bit quite partially... We tend to believe that's the only light in that room, because that scene's also super bright. In general, it's really well done. I mean, there's a little bit of melodrama in some of the acting. The acting gets better as the movie goes on. It does get better. Well, they shot all the bathroom stuff, but they shot it in chronological order. That makes sense, because it all gets better. Harry always seems to care more as the movie goes on. It's a little surprising. You almost think it would go the other way, but he's great by the end. He's like, ah, looking towards the end. And then leading towards the end, the twist at the end is probably still one of the best twists in horror film history. They set up this thing that it's... Yeah, it might be... It's got to be, like, top tier. In like, top 20, top 10. Because, I mean, he's... They sell it, it's Zep. And he's the guy, like, they recognize him. And it's the last person you'd expect as the dude who's been in the room the whole time. And then we get it, and they're searching Zep for a key, and they find the tape recorder. And this is the tape recorder, and the song starts kicking in. And you just see the pen slowly down, and Jigsaw just gets up off the ground. I remember watching that with my friend at his house, and I got out of my chair, and I was walking around the room going, No way! I was legitimately mad when it first happened. I was mad. I call movies. I'm a film studies major. I watch movies all the time. I'm usually good at calling these things. I felt cheated because I was like, There's no way that I missed this. This must, blah, blah, blah. And then you go back and watch it again. He's in it. He's on the operating table. And he played it the whole time. He's there. There's little anecdotal references to him being on the floor. There's just some really great foreshadowing bits throughout the movie that really lead to it, and it pays off. I mean, it's one of the greatest twists in horror movies. It's one of the greatest twists in movie history. It is. And it's something that the series would continually try to recapture, but they never could. And other films would sort of try to do this. And at the same time, this film came out in a kind of a crucial time for horror, because 2000, like late 90s horror, was either scream or incredibly bad for runoffs of it, or obscure, strange, pseudo horror, which also wasn't working too well. I have a soft spot for a lot of them, but I mean, objectively, there's a lot of dog shit. Yeah. And so, this was like the grungy... No, no. You're okay, though. The grungy, the new metal version of horror... There's so much new metal. New is so much new metal. And it revitalized it. James Bond essentially did something that, you know, he can still hold on to. I mean, we're 2022, and the guy's still making bangers. I'm stoked for whatever he's coming out with next. I loved Malignant. Yeah, Malignant. Even though Malignant is like... I didn't even hate Aquaman. I hate the whole DZ-going universe. Like Malignant as completely wackadoo as that movie is. I just remember being like, wow, this movie is shot way better than it should be. I loved that movie so much. I loved everything about that movie. He said, all right, that movie's back. Backwards matrix nonsense. I think it's like, okay, we're gonna put zero money into the acting, zero money into the actual story, but we're going to put all of it into the cinematography and the fight choreography, because that's the last thing people are going to expect from the horror movie. And that's when the James Wan comes out. I mean, that twist, I mean, I don't know if that twist is going to go down in history. It's the wackiest scene in the world. But I mean, it definitely should get mentioned shortly after you're talking about the twist in Saw. The James Wan managed to do it again as like, it's a great twist in Malignant. But this twist, everything about the end of Saw, from the get go, from the moment you get told it's Zep and the stressful scene with the mom and daughter, with Danny Glover's character running in and trying to save the day with the... And then he dies, too. With the terrible, terrible poor man's process. Oh, yeah, I was like, were there in the car chase? I mean, it's stylized, and it's like shaking the camera, shaking the car, and like some half-mo with black color on it. Which is funny, because like the editing is not bad either, and sometimes, like some of this is a very sped up, very dork. It's very CSI. I was gonna say, it's somewhere between CSI and like a new metal music video. And modeling, if he hadn't directed music videos before this, it would have been very surprised, especially with the low circling, looking upwards, Michael Bay shot cameras. Kind of going into, there are a few things that have aged a little bit, like we said, the acting has aged a little bit, the pacing and some of the bits is... Yeah, he definitely found more as he kind of moved on and just getting what he wants out of that. And the writing is bad. They've definitely improved as writers over the last 20 years. I mean, some of that's also like Lee Winnell's delivery, but they're also just corny-ass lines. I don't give a crap if you covered yourself in peanut butter and had a 15-hook or gang bang. But still in terms of what this film set up, what it did, and anyone who would watch it a day aside from being like any Gen Zers or anyone else being confused by the cell phones. By cell phones, pagers. The tape recorders. The tape recorders. Yeah, there's definite... Technology of the whole world. What's the antiquated technology in this movie? Aside from that, though, I think that for anyone who have not seen this film, the twist would still be pretty friggin' brutal. It'd be pretty raw. It makes me... My kids like horror movies, like I'm looking forward to being able to show this one to them so I can just watch Serenity's head explode. Oh, yeah. Because it's so good. Yeah, no, watching... I would be actually really cool to see someone who has never seen this and see that twist and just watch their faces. So in terms of my rating system, what would you give? I mean, I'm probably giving it like... I mean, I'd probably say a 5.5 but I know you don't like me doing a half number. So I'll probably go with... I don't think I'm gonna go with a 5. I'm like leaning towards a 6, but... We actually... We agree. Yeah. Like, actually 100% agree. The twist is huge, obviously. Yeah. But some of the road getting there's a little bit bumpy. It's not bad. It's just... No, it's a solid movie. It's just not... You know, you remembered this movie for the twist. I mean... It's kind of like the usual suspects. If you guys pay attention to my rating system, it's like fun based a lot. I definitely gave some of those Friday the 13th and they never announced your movie's higher ratings than I should have out of love for them. And I do love this movie a lot, but I'm gonna try to be more objective. I mean, it's great. The twist is fantastic. There's a lot of really good stuff in this. But it's also a very evidently super low-budget movie made by some amateurs. Yeah. There's some foibles and some missteps there. It still manages to be great. It tells the story it wants to tell and it tells it well. That's why I'd lean towards a six, but I think I end up giving it a five out of seven. Yeah, no. I agree. The same number. Like I said, it's great. It has a lot of good parts to it. Some parts have not aged as well. And most of the parts that anyone never talks about, of course, is the twist. And it kind of makes me think of, like I said, usual suspects. I was gonna say, we talked a lot during the movie about how much shit we forgot. Yeah. That you just forget about whole scenes. You forget like, I totally forgot about. I remembered how Seng died. Yeah. I remember that whole thing with the dude with the drills. I totally forgot that whole scene. Which is like that also if you think about it. He's like, why is that set up? Did he know that Constraub is coming? He just had this set up. I wonder if it comes back. I wonder if there's like that game shows up in another movie at all. That'd be interesting. That dude just shows up. Yeah, something. You know, like that'd be cool. We'll see. Yeah, we'll see. Because I know this franchise did try really hard to kind of turn back on itself and reference itself in like different ways. And then wait a minute. Did Noah's work? Are we gonna see the leader of Jesus Sarah? Good contributions there. Oh, good. Oh, breeze. Yeah, Chester. Yeah, Chester Bennington's in one of these. He's in one of the Chester Bennington's in this. You can edit out the part where you failed Chester Bennington dies, I think, in the last one that was technically chronological. Yeah. I think he dies in the final cut. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I'm looking forward to checking this franchise again. I really had fun watching this movie. Yeah. It was a delight. Same. No, it was like, it was a good memory lane. Yeah. And I'm actually excited to get disappointed. Yeah, he goes through this series. Because I remember the second one's like a complete fuck, like a complete change. I hated the second one. I hated the second one. It's kind of grown on me over time. I just remember that one guy. It's the only other one I've seen. It's more than once. It's the guy. I remember this one guy. He's a huge dude. The dude's just the biggest fucking dick. It's like, I don't want you to live at all. Yeah. I mean, that's the one, you know, Darren Lindbosman kind of takes the reins after this. He wrote two and directed two, three and four. So, and then spiral as well. He directed. Yeah, and then we're going to get in the system. So, we'll see how much of this can actually be seen on YouTube. Anyways guys. Thank you for watching. Glad to be back. Happy Halloween. Yeah. And we're excited because, well, we thought about doing the Halloween series, but I think Halloween ends with... Oh God. Yeah. He mentioned in the review. I fucking hated that movie so much. Yeah. A little bit of a sour note in our take. Oh, I hated that movie. We talked about doing the Saw ones for a while. And, you know, we had a real fun time doing the Friday and the Nightmare series, eventually taking far longer than we should have had. We'll be hopefully a lot faster with these ones. But anyways, hope you guys enjoyed. Happy Halloween. And see you guys next time.