 From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS re-invent 2020. Special coverage sponsored by AWS Global Partner Network. Everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of AWS re-invent 2020. It's virtual this year. Normally we're there in person doing the interviews, getting the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, your host, and we're theCUBE virtual. Got a great guest here, Aidan McDonald, program manager, Justice Through Code, the center of justice at the Columbia University. This is a great story. Aidan, thanks for coming on. I appreciate you taking the time to join me. Thanks so much for having me, John. So first of all, talk about the mission of Justice Through Code. This is such an awesome program. It really is impactful. It's one of those examples where, you know, people want to change the world. This is one you can actually do it. And with code, take us through the mission. Yeah, so I think to understand the mission here, you have to understand a little bit about the problem, right? So the United States has 5% of the world's population, 25% of the global prison population. When people come home from prison, they're confronted with a reality that it's just very difficult to find jobs, right? They have unemployment rates that are stratospheric higher than for the general population. And so at the core of what we're doing in our mission is really to provide a pathway to career track employment for formerly incarcerated individuals to help support them and their families. And also to begin to change the negative stereotypes that are attached to the formerly incarcerated. It's an upwardly mobile mindset, growth mindset. Also, there's new skills. Always hard to do that, right? Given the environmental conditions. What skills are you guys delivering? Take us through how it works. Give us a feel for the skill sets and what happens. Yeah, so we focus the program in two distinct ways. So we have the technical skills aspect of the curriculum and the interpersonal skills. So as far as the technical skills go, we teach a version of a course that's taught to current Columbia MBA students. So that is set up. We teach the fundamentals of programming in Python, what we call phase one of the program. Then we move on to APIs and data analysis. And then from there, we do a capstone software project. And for that project, groups of two or more students come together. Really, they conceptualize the design and then they execute on building this project. And during that phase of the course, we actually pair students with mentors who are seasoned software engineers from many of the top tech companies in the U.S. And then in terms of the, sorry, in terms of the interpersonal skills, we really focus on the skills that are necessary to success in the tech workforce. So this is resumes, cover letters, interviewing skills, and also really understanding that for many of our students, they don't have the networks that so many people are fortunate enough to have that have gone through a traditional educational pathway. So we bring in guest speakers from different corporations and having the students work with mentors. So they're really able to start to build that network to support themselves in their career transition when they complete the program. You know, what's really amazing about what you're doing is, and this really is so timing, the timing is perfect, is that with the cloud and the tech scene where we're at now is, you don't, you can come out, you can level up pretty quickly with things. In other words, you know, you can have someone go to an Ivy League school and be all the pedigree and it doesn't matter because the skills now are different. I mean, you literally could be a surfing, be a couch potato, surfing TV and get online and get an Amazon degree and through educate and come out and make six figures. I mean, so there is definitely a path here. It's not like it's a slog. It's not like it's a huge leap. So the timing is perfect. We're seeing that across the board. There's more empty jobs open inside with security, cloud computing administration and with Lambda and all these cool services. It's just going to get easier when we hear that. We see that clearly. What are some of the examples can you share of the graduates? What have they gone on to do? You mentioned some of the big tech companies. Take us through that tipping point when the success kicks in. What are some of the examples? As I mentioned, one of the really integral parts of our program is this mentorship, right? So students finish the program. They often continue to work on their final projects in conjunction with their mentors and then really focus during that time period on developing the skill sets that they'll need to have entering into junior level software development roles at tech companies. For some of our students, this means they've actually found out through the course of the class that they prefer front end web development and they start working on JavaScript and full stack and a few of our students have gone on to work at or enter into apprenticeships at major tech companies in those roles. And then we also have students who are focused on continuing in their development of their technical skill set with Python. So we have some students who have actually entered into the Columbia University IT department on a big project they're working on. Other students that have worked with freelance web development agencies on projects really have a very diverse talented group of students. And so from that, we see that everybody has different interests and definitely know one specific pathway, but many successful pathways. How is Amazon web services helping you guys? They're contributing, they're giving you credits. What's their role here? Yeah, so they've provided kind of their expertise and support to the program. Just really excited to be collaborating with them and really looking at how do we take this program to scale, right? So we know that this is a problem that affects so many Americans, right? There's 77 million Americans currently with a criminal record. And so with the barriers to employment that come from having been incarcerated, I came to this work because I spent four years incarcerated for my own involvement in the marijuana industry in California prior to legalization. And so I saw kind of these challenges, right? First hand of what it's like to get a job. And so we're just very invested in collaborating with AWS again to bring this program to scale. So we can really help uplift the communities that have been impacted by mass incarceration. It's interesting you talk about your personal experience. Talk about the stigma that comes with that and how this breaks through that stigma. And this is really not only is a self-esteem issue. This is real. You can make more money, you have a career and literally the difference between going down or up is huge. Talk about the stigma and how this program changes the lives of the individual. Yeah, I think one important thing to consider here and before understanding it is the stigma, right? Is that unemployment or employment should say is the number one predictor of recidivism, right? So we see that for people to have real jobs, they don't go back to prison. And so we're just so invested in working on that. And in terms of the stigma, it's just so prevalent, right? I can think through myself before I had gone to prison. I had started two businesses. I was actually accepted to go to Columbia University when I got out and I would apply to landscaping jobs, couldn't get to the final round and the job offer would be rescinded, right? And it's just this automatic sense of this person is not to be trusted because they have a history of incarceration. And so what we're really working on doing with our students is first redefining what people think is possible, right? I saw this myself coming home from prison, the constant messaging is your life is over, you're never gonna accomplish anything of meaning and so just kind of accept your lot. And so at first, we really focus on that with students in terms of sharing stories of success, other people that we know that have taken this pathway and then really looking at providing leadership development. So when our students do enter into these companies, they're really able to serve as leaders and for people to understand that while you may have these assumptions because of depictions of people that have been incarcerated in the media, the end of the day, formerly incarcerated people are brothers, sisters, family members and really deserve a chance in life. Yeah, and I gotta say, as someone who loves technology and been computer science when it was early days, there was a ladder you had to have a requisite level. Now, I mean, you literally could be six weeks in and be fluent on cloud computing administration as three bucket configurations. I mean, there are so many things and so many opportunities. If you have some intelligence and some drive, you're in. I mean, it's just so, it's pretty right, it's right there, it's attainable. It's not a fantasy, it's doable and programs like yours are awesome. My hat's off to you for doing that. Thanks for sharing. Definitely, thank you so much for having me. Final question before we go, how does people get involved? Can you share a minute, give a plug for what you guys are doing? How do I get involved? How do I give support? Take a minute to plug. Definitely, I mean, I think at the core, like the most important thing that anybody can do, right, is to look within the organizations that they work and work at and find out what your fair chance hiring practices are and see if there's an opportunity to hire our students or other formerly incarcerated students. I think also we're very engaged, as I mentioned, in our mentorship program so people can find us centerforjustice.columbia.edu and reach out to us about the mentorship program and really begin to talk about this and share the stories of those who have succeeded and provide support to other people that will be returning home. All right, Aiden, thank you very much. Just for co-checking out Columbia University, Aiden McDonnell, program manager. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Furrier here in theCUBE, CUBE coverage, CUBE virtual coverage of ReInvent 2020. Thanks for watching.