 Nigeria's biggest challenge is poverty, not corruption. Defining corruption can be hard work. My favorite definition is the one that says quite simply, that corruption occurs when good habits are abandoned. If you ask Nigerians what our biggest challenge is, I'm quite sure a majority will say corruption. It is so prevalent in our society that it almost makes one feel that this is the major obstacle to Nigeria's development and progress. Is this correct? Well, let's find out. Let me start by saying that corruption is a terrible disease and deserves a lot of attention and decisive action. However, there is no country in the world that can claim to be corruption free, not even the most prosperous nations can make both to say this. There are two main causes of corruption. Corruption caused by greed and corruption caused by need. Let me explain with examples. An employee who is paid 30,000 a month as a salary but has living costs of 40,000 a month is likely to suffer from corruption of need. This is very common in our society with unreasonable pay structures that set up most establishments for doom. A supplier who decides to supply inferior products to a customer so that they can make more profit can be said to be practicing the corruption of greed. So essentially, they're doing this because they want more money, not because they're not making a profit. Both instances have terrible consequences for the victims. Corruption of need is prevalent in Nigeria because it provides a solution to a genuine problem. It fills a gap rather tidily too, if I may add. In fact, you almost cannot blame the perpetrators. What are their options? While it is true that even the wealthiest people are corrupt, and as such, we can conclude that poverty is not the major cause of corruption. It is safe to say that the most dangerous type of corruption is that caused by need, and here is why. When a person exists in a world where the daily bread is uncertain, they abandon good habits permanently. Poverty can be far more dangerous than any nuclear or biological weapon. It creates desperation and drives humans to do what they do best, survive by any means necessary. Nigeria has more poor people than any other country in the world. It is currently the poverty capital of the world. This sad fact means that every single day, the most people on the planet who are uncertain about their survival are living. In fact, scratch that, barely existing in Nigeria. They wake up every day, not knowing if they will be able to eat a single meal and also go to bed every night, wondering if tomorrow will be the same, better or even worse. They have no control over their own lives, and will have to become more imaginative. Every single day in a quest to survive, fighting corruption is a total waste of time in an environment where poverty is prevalent. Most people in Nigeria live above their income, and I mean just in a quest to survive. There is little or no access to loans and higher purchase, especially for the people at the bottom of the pile. Inflation does not help matters, and the salary structure gets more unrealistic from paycheck to paycheck. Government, which should ordinarily buffer the citizens, does not do enough to provide a fertile environment for businesses to thrive. We are creating a 200 million strong army of desperate people. My simple advice for governments is this. Don't fight corruption, fight poverty. Sometimes, when you look at it, you wonder, is it like a chicken and an egg approach? Is this corruption a result of poverty, a new environment, or poverty is that thing? The effect of corruption. So for me, I like to take a more holistic approach, say, okay, poverty is an economic reality. However, there are other things we must take into consideration, because I hear people who say poverty is a thing of the mind. However, if you are living in your home, when you can't afford to visit life's skin, then it becomes an issue. Even though, I know that, I think I read somewhere that, even in America, 57 million people live alone. Yeah, below the poverty line. Correct. And so, that is an environment that has structure, that is an environment that's not so much. They have systems. So how do you say, how do you make it? In America, for instance, you have people who are living below the poverty line. You have a government that has systems and they're getting welfare, but you still have poor people. You have corruption as, it's not a way of life, in quotes. In Nigeria, the opposite is the case. So how do you marry the two? To me, I feel that as long as you have the mind, the mindset of poverty, regardless of where you are, it also happens. You're not going to marry the two? Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. But I think it's important to remind first and foremost, but even though you have that environment of, environment that is not illegal, for instance, you don't have enough money to pay for rent, you don't have enough money to eat, so you create that environment where you see people trying to make good ends meet, to hide out the living, and this causes them to go into all sorts of things. That in itself can enable people to have that mindset. Something really funny from, and you just said, you said it already, because you want to ask yourself, a country like the USA that seems to have everything in place. I remember once I was taking a course in the University of Houston. So we walked across from where the classroom was, there's McDonald's, right across the road. And as I walked in with my cousin, this homeless woman, you know, and they littered, there's a part of Houston, you know, downtown Houston, they littered the road. It's almost as horrible as we have here in Nigeria. And then she walks up to me and almost jumps up to me and like, can I have a quarter? Like a quarter in America is like 25 Kobo in Nigeria, because she wanted to just buy a Big Mac and you know, So you want to ask yourself for a system that seems to be as established as the USA. And then back to Shalan's issue, like corruption is not, it's not a major problem, like it's poverty. I quite agree. It's like an egg and the chicken question, which comes first. You know? No, but you know, well differs. When you look at a country like America, they built a welfare system. In Nigeria, what would, if I'm going to look at it from a governance perspective, the only welfare system we seem to have is the civil service. And I'll explain why. The civil service is redundant. They are paid salaries and it's massively full. Okay, Kule, that's a bit harsh. When you say the civil service is redundant. Wait. You know, let's not, let's not downplay. You know, because I mean, my mother, maybe he should explain what it means by that. By that sentence. Okay, okay, Nigeria has, Nigeria has over 1000 ministries, departments and agencies. India with over a billion people has about 96. I believe the U.S. has about 36. Britain has about 28. So when I say our systems are redundant, it's not because I want to fiddle with words. Are you looking at the number of ministries or the supply of the personnel? Why do you have ICPC and EFCC? Why do you have VIO, FRSC? Should I continue? There are multiple duplications across both. And this does not allow for full functionality of governance. This already tells you that the country itself is in support of corruption. Now corruption is not necessarily stolen money. It is abuse of political or appointed office. That's the real definition of corruption. So it's not exactly, it doesn't restrain me. So me, it means if I'm from, let's say give or take and procrastinate. And then I enter and become a DG. And then I employ half my village people. That's corruption. I don't need to have taken one cup of it. That's corruption. Or if I say I'm a president, I mean, sorry, is it employing your village people who are not qualified? Is it an issue, really, if the people are qualified? No, no, no. Now, based on Nigeria's federal characters system, I cannot employ my entire village even though they are qualified. But that's a bit of an intro. Yes, yes. And that is corruption as we are coursing it. But of course, I'm sure Mr. Shalas will put in some more. Yeah, I mean, I agree with you Kule entirely that in the US, even in the UK where I am, we have an extremely good welfare system. In this country, every time somebody comes to me on the streets to beg for money, I'm like, look, well, I'm not an immigrant but because I was born here. But there are immigrants that came here by boat. And when they got here, they found a way to get asylum. They found a way to get and were given a place to live. How can you, who is white, British, not being on the streets, again, this relates to the fact that there are options for them. I always say that they have so many options but like we said before, some people will be suffering from all sorts of illnesses in a mental health, for instance. And that may make them homeless. But you are right, Nigeria does not have a welfare system. So basically everybody's turned on the streets and we're all struggling for survival. After the break, I know six to correct the rhetoric notion. Please stay with us.