 issue being a reported incident by Susan McNeil, a dog owned by Brittany Ecorino. Do we have Milo with us? I don't believe Milo is on the call at the moment. I'm texting her now to let her know, but she did tell me that she would be out of town. She did brief me on the project or on the issue, but I'm trying to see if she can join us. We're waiting for maybe you could just tee it up. Sure, absolutely. In February, we had received an initial report from the resident Denise Randolph that had mentioned that she had been she didn't necessarily say that she had been bitten by a dog, but did mention that she's at some point there have been connections between bite and injury. And so the incident occurred in East Randolph. The report that had been issued to the town was that a child was walking its dog. It had gone up a driveway into private property. The child did not return with the dog and so it concerned resident had noticed that the two had gone into this area, did not return. And so there was some concern. This person, Miss McNeil went up the driveway to try to potentially assist a child that she thought was hurt or lost or something. The child was then encountered walking back toward the road with the dog, at which point the dog noticed Miss McNeil walking up the driveway, escaped the control of the child, ran towards Miss McNeil, and at that point, injured Miss McNeil on her knee. I'm not sure if it was a bite. It's been described as an injury, but not a bite, but potentially a bite. Not sufficient enough to warrant medical attention. The report was made with the Animal Control Officer of the incident. There was an attempt to reach me. I was away during that time frame and had not been able to communicate with Miss McNeil. Once we communicated with Miss McNeil, and then I also spoke with our Animal Control Officer, I learned of the incident. I shared with Miss McNeil her ability to request a hearing if she felt it was necessary to request a hearing. After several potential weeks of the incident being considered by Miss McNeil, she decided that yes, a hearing was necessary because of what had happened and that led to us issuing a notice to Brittany who owns the dog and had also been in contact with my lower Animal Control Officer that led us to this hearing today. Okay. Let's start with Miss McNeil. Was the town manager's description of the incident accurate? Or is there anything you'd like to add? Yes, a few corrections. The young boy wasn't walking the dog. The dog had gotten loose. I was out in my driveway. Shoveling snow and the boy ran by after the dog with a cable and a collar in his hand and ran up Lee Whitney's driveway. My dog immediately ran to the front door. I went and put the dog in because my dog is afraid of this dog because it has been attacked by this dog. I went back out and for 10 or 15 minutes I continued with the snow removal but Jackson didn't come out of the woods and he's seven years old and it's about 4.30 in the afternoon and I was worried because he's trying to catch a loose dog and didn't want him to get loose. At that point I had no idea the dog would come after me so I grabbed a leash and headed across the street to help if I could help find the dog or help Jackson. As I was walking up Lee's driveway Jackson had caught the dog and was coming over the hill and as soon as the dog spotted me which was about 75 feet away he just bolted towards me. He dragged Jackson on his belly for about 10 or 15 feet before Jackson let go and the dog came at me tearing at my pants leg and then moved up my leg to my knee and did bite me and I think I and not I think I did write that in the written formal complaint and so I was kicking the dog and don't know what occurred to stop the dog. I'm not sure if it was my kicking yelling or Jackson grabbing the cable. I backed up I threw Jackson proper leash so he could hold on to it and it had a slip lead so we put that around the dog's neck and I asked him how the dog got loose this time and he said he slipped his collar and so I just followed Jackson turned around and headed home and I followed him and told him to please tell his mother that that the dog bit me and then once he got the dog in the house he could bring my leash back when he came back he came back with a note from Brittany saying she was sorry that the dog had slipped you know slipped its collar and bit me and she did apologize but at this point I'm assuming that the select board read my my written complaint this isn't the first time this dog has attacked a person I believe so but on November 5th the dog attacked Brenda Dodge's dog in her own yard and again when that happened the dog bolted from the road up into Brenda's yard to attack her dog. The dog was on a leash with Brittany's teenage brother but he was running and tripped and the dog got away from him and immediately ran to Brenda's dog and on September 14th my friend and a neighbor here was walking my dog and that is Peggy Whiteneck and she's on here as well and I was coming home from somewhere and stopped my car to talk to Peggy who again was walking my dog out on the end of Tumbridge Road and this dog Oakley came barging out of the house ran across Brittany's lawn and out into the road and attacked my dog. I was kicking it and screaming and we were trying to you know Little Jackson came out of the house and a neighbor who I don't know came running out of his yard and down the hill when he heard the commotion and yelled and his yelling I guess made the dog stop but also on a couple occasions Lee Whitney has reported the dog in his yard the week before it bit me he said the dog was in there in his yard with a couple people trying to catch the dog and on two other occasions the dog has run into my yard and they were trying to catch it. Now the reason I did not report the incident when it attacked my dog on September 14th is I believed accidents happened. The dog barged out of the house by the little boy and ran out and attacked my dog. I do realize that some dogs are dog aggressive and accidents do happen and I was trying I was trying to be a kind neighbor. What I'm seeing now once the dog attacked me this dog is clearly with his family he might be fine but this dog is clearly a nuisance has been seen running at large many times and I just feel like this dog is aggressive and needs to somehow be maintained by Brittany and her family in a better fashion clearly tying the dog out is not working and I'm this is Peggy Whiteneck I'm one of the people who was involved in the incident with the dog attacking her dog when I had her dog on a leash in the road so the dog came out and just in the road I have to tell you I will not walk by that house anymore I'm scared to death of that dog and I won't walk by the house anymore I take when I take Sue's dog for a walk I put the dog in the car and I drive to the old tractor place whose owner has given me permission to park there and I walk in the opposite direction from that house so there's a lot of um there's a lot of working around that I have to do just to take Sue's dog out for a walk because this dog is not contained and I don't trust the the people that own him to be able to contain him and I can say um this is Sue again I can say that I no longer walk by the house either now I generally put my dog in the car and take him somewhere out or I walk up Tumbridge Road with my dog because again um you know it just can't be that I just feel that they are not responsible um to own a dog that is aggressive or potentially vicious which I believe this dog according to the town ordinance or the dog ordinance fits both those descriptions I have to say when I bring my dog out midnight out um I don't feel safe without bringing out some sort of protection with me which is a baseball bat um I just I don't feel safe without it um the dog did bite me um I did have to go to the hospital for the bite so Brenda did you report that yes I did to Milo yes I did yes I did but you know I was going to ask that same question because um uh Susan McNeil references in her statement that Brenda reported it to both the dog officer and the health officer yes I did and that was in November so I guess one question I have is why is this coming to us three months later when that was a serious incident in its own right I don't know I'm not asking that of you I'm asking it right I think it's an excellent question yeah I don't know what the dog officer was doing but you know both incidents got reported to the dog officer both the bite on Sue and the bite on Brenda now I would have to go through the ordinance I don't have it in front of me at the moment but I believe it specifically indicates that the the aggrieved party has to request a hearing uh reporting the incident to the animal control officer and the health officer involves them in attempting to resolve the issue outside of the hearing but in the case of like today with miss McNeil we expressed to her um what is in the dog ordinance and if she wanted to hold the hearing we presented her with the option to do so and then she then ultimately said yes I want a hearing which is why we're here Brenda I'm not sure in your incident if your instance I did not request I did not hear of a request for a hearing so it could have been that the incident happened was reported according to our health officer and our animal control officer was resolved by the parties because no hearing was requested the words weren't said I want a hearing just like miss McNeil said I want a hearing and I thought I had put in something that I wanted a hearing but nothing had ever became of it the health I know one of them was it I don't know if it's not the health officer but the other lady the dog officer I think the dog officer said that all she could do was give Brittany a warning or a fine or something like that and she said that was all she could do and then that is correct our animal control officer can issue citations can issue warnings um and issue fines but right she cannot she cannot decide to hold a hearing unless a hearing specifically requests but then I need to do some education there so Milo it's better at explaining the process to folks so they understand what their options are absolutely we're not going to be able to go backwards for this may I ask a question it was reported and I thought I did send in a report to have a hearing I I'll look back and see what it says see what I've got for paperwork on it thanks Brenda we're gonna have to just move this hearing forward and okay the training can I ask you a question about um some clarification hang on Tom had a question for I wanted to ask a question um actually of Brittany um that's appropriate training um I was trying to get the story from one side and then I was going to give her a chance to respond to it and then we'll maybe go back well the question I would ask her to address in her response is how is this dog um contained in the yard and why are there multiple instances of its wandering around free and I'm going to ask that question by by uh bracketing it by saying in a previous job I served for almost three years as the director of the humane society so these are some issues that I know a little bit of something about okay hang on just a second Brittany before you're dressing Susan what was your question um my question was about the citations and um is it my understanding what was just discussed just discussed with Adolfo and and the mentioning of citations and stuff so Milo has the ability to give a citation or is that only if a hearing is called no she can issue a citation without a hearing so then I guess my next question would be as to why there there was no citation for the um November 5th attack on Brenda's dog because the ordinance states that it a domestic pet an attack on a mess a domestic pet is in violation of the ordinance so unfortunately we don't have Milo with us tonight but that's a decision she makes of when to issue them and when not to issue them and so we're not going to get that let's go over and get Brittany's side of what took place um so honestly I was unaware of a lot of this stuff um up until two and a half months ago I was working full time at night so the kids did have the dog a lot so you know they would call a couple times when he got out I was unaware of the September 14th attack like completely unaware and everybody in the house as well um I do know about the incident with Susan of course I you know send Jackson with a note just because I had a newborn at home I wasn't able to go over and apologize in person and I also knew about Brenda um and that you know I dealt with that with um Miss Scalera I can't remember her first name as well as Milo and did the things they had asked of me um as far as Oakley you know how he's contained so we haven't really been able to put up a fence or anything just because of the ground being frozen so that is our next step um he's a bigger dog so we're trying to figure out the best way to really contain him and different leads we're realizing that he was able to get out of um so it's it's been a process for us as well we have a couple people that are working with him to help train him because we don't know how to train him um you know I have a Chihuahua at home as well and don't have too many issues with her um so Oakley's been he's been different um but like I said we're doing the things now that we can I was unaware of a lot of these instances and yeah I apologize for everything um he's not like I get that he's vicious to other people and people are afraid of him but like in our home he's not that dog so a lot of it we are unaware of um yeah I mean I guess that's all I can really say at this point you mentioned that he's a large dog what type of dog I'm sorry yeah go ahead Tom what type of dog is he Brittany so he's a pit bull he's a pit bull the only other dog that I've ever had as a Chihuahua so it was just a transition with the dog so you know just having a bigger dog it's been different um you know and when we first got him we got him back in February of last year um and then you know in the summertime when we could have done all of these things we had a few big issues happen so it was kind of a transitional summer for us so you know things just kind of on the back burner with putting up a fence and just doing all of those things um and then as it got you know colder out we couldn't do anything and that's when these other things happened um and like I said we haven't been able to do anything since the incident with Susan just because the ground's frozen so we can't put up a fence um and those types of things but now like I'm the you know me and my husband let him out more than the kids but like if they have to the older boy will let him out um but then they stay outside of them he comes right back in so we're doing the things that we can right at this point and we're putting up a fence this upcoming weekend Brittany it sounds like he is not staying in his collar or he's gotten out a few times I think or a leash or hook or whatever how do I know like I said somebody is always outside of them now I know that with one instance um Jackson had left him outside a little bit longer while I was breastfeeding my daughter um so if he you know and this is in the winter time so he got cold and got himself out of his collar so like I said in that instance we're staying outside with him when he goes to the bathroom he comes right back in until we are able to get the fence in part of our yard so I mean that at this point in time that's kind of the only thing we can do um we're like I said we're fencing in this upcoming weekend so we're doing the things that we were recommended to do um we have a couple people like I said training with him every so often to help us figure out the best ways to work with Oakley so I mean any recommendations from you guys as well different things we can do like I said it's just we had a huge transitional year so it was tough having the dog as well so a lot of things came up and so I could add one suggestion so instead of a collar it's probably time for a harness yeah so that he can't slip that okay I just think that's that's the next appropriate step here as the collar obviously isn't working okay so along with the fence if you're creating the fence you know I think those are two good moves um so Oscar I'll stop right there let Tom if you get the right type of harness uh there's what's called a slip harness which actually makes the dog easier to walk too because you you attach to the harness either at the chest or at the back of the neck and if the dog is pulling it jerks you know it tightens the harness and it's a way of controlling him better that's that's what I have for my dog because my dog I've got two of them hold me to the ground twice yeah and that's the only way I can control her most most professional obedience trainers will tell you to work with a slip harness um they come in different brand names but you know all the big pet stores carry them and um the other this is going to be coming from my background in humane work um I'm not surprised to hear it's a pit bull um and unfortunately this type of situation is what gives pit bulls a bad name um you know there are towns in this state that ban pit bulls and I think from a humane perspective that's a very unfortunate thing because they're great dogs if they're raised right and like I said unfortunately when we got Oakley um you know when I first had gotten him things were perfect at that point and then a lot of changes happened and unfortunately it did put the dogs a little on the back burner with doing the things you know like fencing in the yard form he doesn't get to run um so you know there's things like I said that we're working on now um yeah because we're you know different situation now sure he's a year old he's a year old in the summer so he's just he's still a puppy yeah I would make one other recommendation and that is that the fencing needs to be flush with the back door where he goes out there should be no gap between that door and the fencing fenced in area because what's happening is he's getting through the door and getting loose as soon as he gets out the door yeah but that's what we're doing good yeah yeah so yeah we've made that we've made that kind of recommendation before so I you know I would stand behind that the other thing is until the fence is up and it's a secure transition it may be better or not so I have one of the kids be the one taking him out but somebody that can actually handle him yep like I said it's been my husband or I and then you know like if I'm breastfeeding by chance and he has to go out um the teenage boy in the house will take him out I see Jackson out with him today yep and he was spoken to because he likes to track help and we've explained to him you know with hopefully getting out and him not being able to handle him so unfortunately Jackson being seven he kind of does as he wants um and it's you know a discussion we've continuously had um so I can't that is going to happen but we have a place the adults in the house that take him out Brittany are both your dogs licensed um so I did call the town to get them registered um have not received a call back and I know that it's not open for me to go there so if you also have any recommendations there to get the proper paperwork and figure out how to get in contact with somebody actually you you can go to town hall and ring to get in and get the license okay yeah you can also do as I did and just send in the fee and they'll send you a tag okay and with that you need to submit a rabies vaccination certificate as well yeah and we have those yeah yeah important to get that done right away yep I don't know who you're working with but there are people around the state that specialize in working one with pit bulls and two with dogs that are dog aggressive that's a whole kind of special uh school of obedience training um and is that is that information that I'm sorry isn't just dog aggressive the dog went out I mean it it's an aggressive dog and any any person um knowing or being familiar with dog um behavior uh an aggressive dog will attack from straight on which is what this dog did to me a fearful dog will circle or come up behind so this dog is not fearful and I agree with you that I think that this dog needs professional training not just somebody that is you know working with it because it's a friendly dog in their home but it clearly is not um it's it's gonna I just every time I see someone walk by I fear for the person walking their child by or something the dog does not like other people or other pets so it's a serious situation as you mentioned and I think it needs professional training um it's very different from a chihuahua Brittany yes I've already made that very clear yeah yeah so right now what uh what's come out is that um there needs to be a fence installed that would be it sounds like tied up to where the dog would enter it between the building and the dot and the fenced in area that there would be um some type of training seek for the dog that would go along with aggressive dogs training the dog would have a harness instead of just a collar and a slip harness was recommended and that until the dog can be in a secured area that it would only be an adult taking the dog outside but I miss anything and that the dogs will be licensed ASAP they can put dates on those if the board would like those are the items I picked up um I'd like to see the dogs licensed by the within the week like by the 15th at the latest it's already passed the you know the deadline for registering each year so sounds like it's both dogs and the fence you said is going up this weekend um this weekend or next week and we're going to get everything this weekend um we have all of our kids and we both work this weekend as well so we are going to get as much of it done as we can what kind of fences are you planning on putting up Brittany um so honestly that's something we're gonna look into um like I said this isn't something I've had to do before um so recommendations there as well we you know this is all kind of new so if there's a specific type of fencing that I have to have or any recommendations um Ollie hers here I would suggest uh probably I mean I'm just guessing here and I can actually you know look into this more if if um Milo wanted me to um I would suggest probably a five to six foot chain link seriously um I was yeah I was going to say a six foot fence but I wonder if a solid wood fence would be better if a dog can't see that's true through the fence it might be less likely to get agitated that is true that's a very good point and they also have those they also have those uh green uh wrap around things for the chain link fences too yep mm-hmm just needs to be high enough that the dog can't jump over it yeah six feet should do it yeah so I guess my next question would be um to Brittany are you willing to put the investment into this fence when you're at a rental property we're trying to buy the house I mean that's not a concern we're adding up porch to the property as well so uh okay so it'd be reasonable to say that probably by let's give you a couple weekends that you know by monday the 26th of April you could have this uh fence completed I would think so okay so if we direct Milo to uh follow up on that you know you that could happen a number of ways you could simply text her some pictures you know showing that it's been completed um so you know if you feel that's reasonable then I would strongly suggest that that we look to have you complete that by the 26th of April okay um and another question too I can't remember who had mentioned it but with the specific people training um and the aggressive dog training if that's something that I could get emailed to me I mean I know that a couple people in this have my email um just so I can get proper training for them because that's something we're definitely open to I was going to look into the I'm willing to look into that for you Brittany um okay when I was working in the humane world I specifically worked very closely with a national organization of pit bull advocates actually um and I can reach out to that organization um and bring this issue to them and and find out if they have any certified training or specifically with pit bulls and and you know our reasonable area I can also reach out to the central Vermont Humane Society I'm sure they might be able to make some suggestions too okay thank you I'll look into that for you and and either pass it on directly to you or or share it with Milo okay thank you we're looking for a six foot fence that will contain the dog whether she goes chain link or solid ticket would be her choice as long as it contains the dog we don't care if the dog goes nuts as long as it stays inside the fence right yeah I don't I'm not doesn't matter to me what the fence is as long as it does the job yeah and I I think I would like to see that when the dog is is out for for walks that it's on a harness and that it's on um a leash all the at all times and that it's only the person at the other ends of that leash is I don't know big enough to contain that dog hold on to that leash um don't want to how old how old is your teenage son Brittany it's my brother he's 16 oh he's 16 so how about we say that the dog needs to be walked by a person 16 years or older to ensure that well it's not going to get loose the thing is this when one of the teenagers had the boy when one of the teenagers had Oakley one day that's when he got away from them and he came belined straight for me and my dog yeah he was on his phone we've had another issue with the smaller dog because he was on his phone so thankfully Devin does not walk him with his phone so that helps again I guess my thing is that even though your teenage brother who's 16 years old and should be able to handle the dog um the dog still it they need to handle the dog responsibly so maybe not running down the road because he tripped and yes that's an accident but that didn't help Brenda or her dog so I think your your kids and your brother brothers need to be very aware of the damage that this dog can do to somebody um if the dog gets out of away from there them whether they have the dog on a leash or in the yard with it um you know again it's really important I I I can't stress how important it is because the dog has proven to to be people aggressive and and dog aggressive any any um any really qualified professional trainer will insist on working with each of the people that's going to be walking the dog so your brother should be prepared and you and your husband to you know go through the training together anybody that's going to be handling the dog should know what they're doing and summarize what we're what we're looking at for this we're looking at um all dogs in the household licensed by April 15th a six foot fence from the point of entry or exit of the house into the fenced-in area that will contain the dog what it looks like is up to you and having that done by the 26th um you'll schedule some training for the dog with um somebody who deals with aggressive dogs and Tom's going to help you potentially find someone there or that the dog will have a harness a slip harness has been recommended and be on a leash at all times that it's outside it'll be walked with a responsible adult at least 16 years of age that can handle the dog did i miss anything thank you god everything training yeah anybody anything they want to add to the only thing i would like to add is is um i would i would reiterate um Susan's um assertion that this dog is potentially quite dangerous um and we really don't want to see this this happen again we certainly don't want to see um an attack which is a lot worse than this one um this sounds like a very powerful dog to easily cause a great deal of damage to another dog or a human being and so i think we need to think about what will happen if this incident happens again yeah i agree i believe that given the history and the formal complaints that have been issued that we can order the dog destroyed if this does happen another time and given the potential seriousness of this i i think that's something we need to consider i don't want to see someone very very badly hurt by this dog at a later time knowing that you know we didn't take this seriously enough i think the list of of um conditions here if they're followed protects the public from this dog and puts the responsibility on britney to put these in place and to follow them um i don't believe we have grounds at this point to do much more on this one well just to be clear traini are we mandating the professional training we are we are okay so far that list is all mandates what's that that's the board's decision that's just the list of items that i picked out of the whole conversation yeah no i think it should be mandated to larry's concern it's it's you know the decision can also say one more incident and this is what i agree with you completely um according to our ordinance that if another attack were to happen given the history of this dog that that the board had not in the future hearing if hopefully we don't need to but if if there was to happen that we could order um the impoundment or the removal or the destruction of of the animal and so i just i just want to make sure that everyone is really clear i want to make sure britney knows it's really quite serious and that that would be a possibility um if this were to happen again i don't want anybody to to be surprised or to take this situation any less seriously than i i think it really warrants that should be stated in the um in the letter or whatever document is going out stipulating our decision that if this happens again the board will reserve its right to impound the dog putting down of the dog whatever term you want to use um i agree with you larry we need that we need to give this dog a chance to uh turn around and we need to give the family a chance potentially to do that but it's the last chance i'll agree larry that not only would be a possibility but a probability if it happens again i would say a strong probability we have a list of conditions and a statement to add at the end of the about the risk of another incident there anything else we want to add to the conditions i'd like to ask a question if i could will i also um will i get um any paper mr mr um erz mentioned the list of mandates that will go out so is will i get a copy of that it's public hearing or no uh you wouldn't normally but it's public record so anybody can get it okay so i will um how will i go about getting the mandates can we just say in the and in approving this that that um we'll direct who is this letter going to go out from is it going to go out from the select board from the town manager or from my low i'm not quite clear on that but we could simply say that we would see susan mcneil with the letter it seems like that the decision is perfectly appropriate uh it's a perfectly appropriate request it seems to me it's a good idea from the select board in a letter format from the town manager all right well i would then just like to add to the list of conditions that um susan mcneil will be copied um at the address from which she filed the complaint with the um stipulations okay so before we vote on this is there any of these that you don't understand britney uh i think i have everything um if i do have questions i know where to call but i think everything's pretty self explanatory and then i'll just wait for the other info for the training okay anybody i'll try and get you that as quickly as i can britney thank you i know i i know who to call so so with these uh the letter uh anybody want to make a motion i'll make the motion that we we send a letter uh from the select board to britney copied to susan um with all the stipulations that you have detailed i'll second that all those in favor hi i'm opposed motion carries with that we come to the final final item of the night with no other agenda to follow motion to adjourn oops i just want to say i just want to say i appreciate the select board taking this on i know this took up a lot of your time um i appreciate it and britney i appreciate your um willingness to do something about this i just know that this could get really serious really fast so um i i'm i'm pleased thank you okay now motion to adjourn so moves i have a motion and a second to adjourn all those in favor hi post trevor you don't get to vote i think kever's been enjoying this he doesn't welcome and uh yeah thanks trevor for sitting in on this don't ever get to just sit back and watch so this is kind of a novel experience and i'll enjoy it while you can i'm looking forward to your joining us in a couple weeks so yeah we'll see you soon a week one day one day yeah sounds good trevor and i will switch roles next meeting i'll bring the popcorn there you go we're gonna hold you maybe the next one can be in person i don't know if there's a thing is virtual popcorn though but i just said the next one maybe can be in person all right thanks everyone all right everyone people thanks everybody good night