 Hi everyone, this is Prena from Paytm and I will be talking about some bit about Paytm journey. Things we faced in terms of challenges in regulatory challenges, infrastructure-based challenges, in terms of pricing, costing that we get from our banking partners and so on and so forth. So I will talk about some bit of experience on those lines and what we did to basically overcome those challenges, resolve those and then build a product that you all know about it. So briefly the agenda is about offline payments which is face-to-face payments, you go to a shop and you make payment. The challenges we faced in setting up that infrastructure because that's a altogether different world versus online payment which we were doing since 2014. So 14th we launched our wallet product in January and since then to about 14th December 2015 we were just doing online payments, enabling payments on Uber, Swiggy, Food Partiet Sector kind of merchants and their apps and then we launched the offline product. So there was altogether different challenges that we faced because the infrastructure whether you look at POS infrastructure etc., nothing was there, available, right. Whatever was available was available with those set of merchants who already had like two, three POS machines lying there and they never wanted a fourth one. They always thought that it is an additional burden for them, why should they integrate another payment option when they already have cards etc., available with them. That's what I'm talking about pre-demonetization because after demonetization everything changed. So next is basically one is the POS infrastructure, those organized set of merchants who which is Big Bazaar or all those supermarkets, huge shopper shop, Big Bazaar, Domino's, Bazaar, all those quick service restaurants, food chains etc., where you gently go dine out etc., or go for shopping. They already had some kind of a payment solution, but who didn't had was those small mom and pop stores because one they were not eligible for, not eligible for any acquiring bank to give their POS machines. Even if they were giving POS machines to them, they were being charged around 500 rupees per month as a rental in terms of cost recurring charges, POS basically that hardware is recurring charges etc. So lot of challenges for those small mom and pop stores, those Kirana shops that you see nearby, those Chai Walak and Pan shops that you like most of your most frequent payments in a day. All those guys are facing lot of challenges because there was no way to digitalize payments for them and actually they never thought, they never gave it a thought also that they can actually, they can be the ones who can accept payment digitally. They never thought that they can fall under the tambourine of digital inclusion, financial inclusion, the terms that we and our banking partners and the banking community talks about. Those people were, you can actually look at the numbers with 1.4 million POS machines altogether for 10 million registered merchant establishment and this 10 million is registered merchant establishment. I am not even talking about those not registered because then the number, there is no count for that number. 10 million merchant establishments with 1.4 million POS machines and sorry 1.5 million as per October 2016. This number might have increased post demonetization but the real protest was when actually pre-demonetization and also post demonetization when everything stabilizes like will our merchants continue to accept payment through these digital means which they are using right now because they are forced to, they don't have any other option, will our customers continue to use such digital payment options like PTIM and a lot of other payment partners that are there in the market, will customers keep on doing it? That's a big question and here we will discuss those only. What is the challenge? What are the challenges? How do we resolve it so that post this supply demand stabilizes when there is no more cash crunch in the economy? Do people still continue to use? By the way, we still, we think because now I think almost that cash crunch is not in that stabilization state but we have not seen a dip, we are not seeing a dip. So we firmly believe that the product is there in the market and going to stay, distributors are there in the market and they are going to stay. We just have to overcome these challenges. If you look at what were the challenges that were there and how do we resolve it? High cost, very high cost for the acquiring partner also. It's not that the merchant were charged 500 rupees unnecessarily, no. It was a cost for the banks. Like all the banks who used to provide those post machines to their merchants, they also had to bear like first upfront cost because they had to do capital investment and that's if they're doing an investment, obviously they have to show ROI also. So it was a huge cost for them also. Then for the merchants, it was, while it was for the banks, it was even for the merchants also it was a very high cost because they were charged. Next we can look at the hardware there to keep. It requires maintenance, there's a connectivity fees for it, which is basically if it is a GPR's base post, you have to obviously keep it connected. Otherwise, how will you accept payment through it? So it was a cost that was directly going to the merchant. Then comes the eligibility criteria. Obviously for the banks, if they have to onboard a merchant, they have to do a lot of set tests, line of business is there, their documentation and considering they're just 10 million registered merchant outlets in the country. A lot of them were not even registered. How would they submit a document, submit any documentation, whether it is their registration certificate or their 10 number etc. How do, how will they give it? They will not have it at all. Like, do, can you imagine a Chaiwala next to your shop having 10 number? I don't think so they will have it, right? So they were not even falling into that criteria, the eligibility criteria of those banks for being able to register as a merchant with them and getting a post machine through which they can digitally accept payment from their customers. So that was a big gap. And believe me, the documentation that a merchant has to give, even a mom and pop store who's well registered, has a current account with the bank. For them also, it's a headache. They have to give quite a lot of documents for getting one single post machine and then maintenance everything is over and above. And then the number of customers who were walking in, having cards and wanting to pay were really less. And primarily, the reason is that while there are 739 million cards in the country and they do around 1 billion transactions in a month, only 22% of them are happening on post machines. This is October 2016 data right from RBS website. Less than 78%. Basically, all those 78% transactions were ATM withdrawals. People withdrawing cash from the ATM, then going on to all these shops and making payment. There was no digital trail to it. And since there was no digital trail to it for the banks, it is difficult to actually check whether this customer and this merchant is eligible or trustworthy or so to call their data analytics. Never told them that this customer, this merchant customer can be a potential customer for them or can be a potential merchant for them. That data never exists. Never existed. So obviously this situation is changing after demonetization because with this last two to two and a half months, now banks have data that these are the merchants who can be eligible partners. So I'll walk you through that, what we did in terms of all these challenges we had in terms of whether it is high cost of acquisition. So we removed that post machine. We thought of this post machine as the biggest challenge. We have to do this high investment. And when banks are not able to, how will we do it? So we just removed it. We said, no, we will not have it. We just had that QR code. We onboarded all our merchants, painted QR codes everywhere. So that was the first strategy we had. The next was in terms of technology infrastructure, if you look at, merchants didn't have data connectivity. It's the customer who had the smartphone, right? We customer had the smartphone or even if the customer has a phone and the merchant has a QR code or merchant has a mobile number, he don't need to have data connected. We data connected all the time. What he needs to be data connected is only when he's making a payment or when he's transferring money to his bank account or when he's doing any purchases, etc. Why do even the customer or the merchant have data all the time? No. So we said, let's have a QR code. Let's give a mobile number to all these small mom and pop stores and register those details with us. If a customer wants to make payment, customer has a smartphone can then scan a QR code and make payment. A customer who doesn't have a data connectivity at that point in time can once in a while call our IVR number which is a toll-free number and then make payment. So these were the two solutions we went ahead in the market and we also experimented and we found that there were huge takers. There was a big need there, which there was a big gap there. There was a demand already existing there, but those guys were not served primarily because of the infrastructure problem, technology regulation, whatever you call it, basically, there was a gap in terms of what they could afford and what the acquiring partners were offering them. So the offering and the demand, there was a huge gap and this basically the QR code solution, you can say so, or a toll-free number and it's not that this was the only thing. The merchant needed much more things, merchants thought that merchant wanted, how will I get to know how much money I've received? I can't open my app, I can't, what if I forgot to open my app or what if I don't have data connectivity the entire day? So we said, no problem, we'll send you an SMS where through which you can get a notification how much amount you collected in the entire day. Then merchants like all those petrol pumps, et cetera, where Paytm is like that's among the hottest category that we have today, those merchants had ships, they was challenged there, banks were not ready to give different post machines to them and the challenge at the petrol pump owner was that how can I manage with one or two post machines? Banks are not ready to give me post machines, additional post machines, I have three ships, I have eight pumps, three into eight. I can't afford 24 into 500 cost every month. That's not even my margin. Why should I, and then I don't even know whether the customers would come and make payment. So there were a lot of challenges in terms of technology, infrastructure, et cetera, and with this like QR codes, it is just 10 cent, right? There's no cost, the cost of that paper is nothing, right? So we could issue them 24, 48, whatever number they wanted. We could issue them so many QR codes through which they could accept payment. Then these small mom and pop stores also had a problem of this cost, that MDR thing, while we are now debating after demonetization that should there be an MDR, but this problem was always there. That was the biggest hurdle for small mom and pop stores. They never wanted to pay that additional 0.75% and sometimes even 2% for debit card or credit card payments, respectively. Why would they, so that's like their bread and butter, why would they pay, so if a customer is coming and buying eggs, like I save 10 paisa over it, how can I make payment or how can I do away with that margin with the banks? So what we created out of that is that we said that, okay, as long as the money is within the Paytm system, it's free for you. I pay you 100, you get 100. If you pay somebody else using Paytm, that guy also gets 100, that guy pays me, so I get back my 100. So there's no cost, actually. Like all of your technology guys, technology per se, servers do pay, there's no cost, right? If the transaction is happening, that's like a fixed cost, one-time investment, right? If on that investment, there are more and more transactions happening after a point of time, there is no operational cost if the money is getting circulated within the ecosystem. The cost comes in when the money goes out, right? When the customer transfers the money to the bank account and that's the whole point that even now what we're discussing that MDR should be abolished or so and so forth, that is basically if there is no cost, as long the money is there in the ecosystem, as long as the money has a digital trail, there is no cost there. What is the cost involved? When the customer goes and withdraws money from the ATF, as long as the money is there in the customer's bank account, so if the money is there in my account and I could transfer in your account, then there is no cost actually for the bank. The bank occurs a cost only when that person goes and goes to an ATM and withdraws, right? So those were the challenges that we tried to solve and we said that we created our own boundaries or policies around it and tried to give solutions to every merchant. We said, okay, merchants had that limitation. Again, regulatory, they can accept only up to 25,000. They can transfer only up to 25,000 to any of their bank accounts using PPI because that's a regulatory requirement that they have. I don't know why they have it, but we have it, right? Sorry. So those things, we said, okay, till the time it is limited to 25,000, it's free, and then we convert it to you into a proper merchant, like a registered merchant that a bank treats, right? Because a lot of those long-term merchants actually do not get more than one lakh rupees as sale in a week's time, et cetera, right? And if they have enough venues on which they can spend, for example, a taxi driver, how much do you think a taxi driver will earn? Anyone of you, how much do you think a taxi driver would earn in a day? 6,000 out of which major costs that he will have would be his fuel cost, data cost, because he'll call customer, I'm averaged, et cetera, his data cost because he'll be using Google Maps, et cetera, right? So it's basically his cost of his fuel and his data or mobile recharge cost, right? If you remove that, it's actually very lesser amount, right? Which is left for him, which is his earning, so to say his income, right? And then again, if we provide him a venues to spend that money also, then why will he ever take it back to his bank account, right? If I get 6,000, I spend, say, 2,000 on petrol pump and that petrol guy, the petrol pump station or the CNG pump is accepting PayTM, I'll get 6,000 and pay him, right? So as a merchant, there was no MDR, so for the taxi driver, it was actually absolutely free. Only the last 1,000 rupees that he wanted to take to his bank and then withdraw cash from the ATM, he was charged only on that 1,000 rupees and even if you were charged on that 1,000 rupees, 1%, how much do you think it is for the entire 6,000? So he less, right? One sixth of it. So they were happy doing it. So the point is that that regulation, I would not say mold it, he tried to mold it, we tried to give as better product and as better experience to our customers and merchants and we did it both of them equally. Our customers and merchants, both of them equally and tried to give solutions around it and that's how we created this. We tried to cover every use case. So if we tried to basically onboard merchants, more than customers, we tried to onboard merchants as a community. So we will not go and onboard a taxi driver. We will go to a taxi union and we'll say, hey, all your taxis we are covering today, all your nearby pan shops, tea stalls, et cetera, because generally a taxi union will generally have some tea stalls, some small mom and pop store, et cetera, who selling prathas, et cetera, nearby, right? So we captured them also. We captured all nearby CNT station also. Mobile recharges, bill payments, all of these, those things they already had in the app itself. So as a community, when we tried to onboard a merchant and the customer, right? More than customer, I'm saying the merchant was very important in the entire journey because it was a merchant who was not willing to accept. Even if the customer felt, why will I withdraw cash? Like cash, now there are no lines in the ATM during demonetization, that was a huge pain for the customer, right? But even if you look at pre demonetization, people like you and me would like to use our cards, right? Instead of withdrawing cash from the ATMs and then making payment. Still, we were not using cards because they were not, even used, there were no merchants who were accepting digital payments, right? So we were still withdrawing cash and making payment on those merchant locations. So we tried to create a community around it. We tried that as much as the money is there in the system, we will not charge our merchants, the MDR abolishment thing which is coming. We tried to actually implement it on the ground and trust me, it was not difficult because the cost for us, for any merchant in the e-commerce or digital online payment ecosystem is when the money comes in, which is when the customer loads the money in the wallet and when the money goes out. Rest of it when the money is there in the system is actually, I think. The next set was that once those long tail merchants were there who were convinced because they didn't had any other option. They didn't had luxury of getting a post machine from their banking partners or a lot of them actually didn't even have an account. So they never fall in that a mural of our acquiring banks. We, but when we went ahead to some organized merchants, like merchants who were having chains like two, three restaurant chain, et cetera, even for those merchants, it was a big pain because a lot of them were not having data connected. Like I would not like to name, but there's a big coffee chain and they, like 90% of their stores, they don't have data connectivity all the time. They only, their post machines are connected to internet only once in a day when they are settling with their central systems. So it was a challenge for us to onboard search merchants and what we try to do is that the challenge, like I mentioned in my previous slide, is that one of the bigger challenge was technology, right? Technology which suits the merchant, technology with the merchant actually is able to adapt easily. So we created solutions where if a merchant is online, there's a solution for you. If a merchant wants to initiate payments through his post machine, he wants that I should be the one initiating payments. We have a solution for them also. And for all those long tail merchants who are the ones who don't have a, they don't have a existing post machine, we always had a QR code. That was like a default solution. And the merchants who are the post machine, we created solutions around it so that they can initiate a request from their own post machine. So depending upon, for example, basements, most of these hypermarkets, supermarkets are generally in the basements. And what we found there was that customer won't be able to scan because most of the times a customer would not have data connectivity in basements, right? I'm sure a lot of you would have faced this, right? So we created a solution where, okay, now this merchant has data connectivity. That's what we can expect from a supermarket because all the time their inventory, et cetera, is getting synced with the central server. So they had data connectivity, so we created a solution accordingly. So we tried to solve that one big problem of technology, technology infrastructure, availability, suitability, et cetera, according to the merchant and the consumer at that point in time. And solutions were created around it. So this was all about offline payment. If you have any questions, we can take those questions or I can move on to online payments. How much time do I have? It's off. Okay. You have a question? You spoke about petrol pumps not being able to afford 24 POS machines or something and then there you instead of POS machines replace the QR codes which the users could then scan and do it. How would in this case a specific person that is accepting the payment know that the payment has been accepted? I mean- We mapped their 24 mobile numbers with different QR codes. They had the, so basically that person, the cashier or the person who was operating the nozzle at that point in time, they gave that mobile number to us. We mapped the QR code against it. And then there is a message. Yeah, so that guy used to get SMS. That's Vanda. I am Sandeep from Easter Egg. What are the challenges that you faced onboarding merchants who do not have proper documentation in terms of KYC because that's something that is mandated by RBI? So how do you handle that? I mean, including mom and pop stores or do you know the coconut vendors and all of those guys? What kind of documentation or how did you guys handle the KYC there? Sure, sure. So we have a very unique way of doing KYC. We created our own set of rules while abiding by the regulators requirement of KYC. We first of all did the biometric based KYC for the owner of the shop. Whether that guy has some registered entity proof et cetera or not, we could always do that owner's registration, right? So we did that. Second, what we did was that we captured the location of the merchant, which is that long. We captured the shopfront photo. Two, three photos that we basically are, we have a huge onboarding team. Those guys go in the field. We have a app through which they used to capture all those details. The app itself had a biometric reader also attached to it. And on the same day, the merchant gets onboarded. The QR code sticker was given right away to the merchant. Merchant just needed to do an SMS from his phone and we would activate that QR code for that merchant. So basically in less than 20 minutes, that merchant used to get onboarded with KYC done everything. We'll take one more question and then Prerna can continue her talk and we'll take all the questions once. Oh, yeah. You mentioned something about biometric reader attached to the app, merchant app. What does this do and how does this work? So this is basically, internally, we call it actually Golden Gate app. That's a funny name that we gave to this app. This app is only for our agents. You will not find it available for our consumers. This is for our agents. It's an Android app and there's a biometric reader attached to that app for doing EKYC, which is Aadhaar-based EKYC for the merchant come customer, as you're going to call it. Right, okay, thanks. Thanks, so we'll continue with the talk. Okay, so while this offline piece is very big, I'll quickly touch up on our previous business and the one which we are still running, which is online payments. There are still some problems that are there in online payments while we've created a lot of products around online payments and a lot of you would have experience at product in terms of making payment at Uber or all those apps where you use it, like Wings, Saavan, et cetera. So we have products where you can link your wallet with your merchant's account. We have products where you can subscribe on the merchant's app for anything like magazine subscription, music subscription, et cetera. We have a product which is generally in the travel world called as pre-auth, which was available only on credit card and that to few types of credit cards which was available. So we launched it for any customer who has any credit card or debit card and a wallet link to it. So we launched that pre-auth product also and quite a few other traditional products which is making payment on a website using Paytm wallet, et cetera. So we created all of it and the primary reason we created all of it was there was a lot of inconvenience for the customer, lot of convenience for our customers. If some of you would have worked in US or UK, you would know that online payments very smooth there, right? Just enter your card details here and you're done. There is no additional two-factor authentication. That's not that it is not required in India, it is required because our customers are now getting involved, right? The regulation was issued in August 2009 when it was mandated for every transaction, the customer has to, sorry, the customer has to enter a OTP or a ATM PIN number, et cetera on the banks issuing banks page, right? While there are some modification to that guideline that was recently issued in December 2016, but since 2009, when that was just start of e-commerce, that was really early days of e-commerce, we put that check on that customer that hey, you cannot have that experience, you cannot have that Uber experience of making payment as you get in US, UK, et cetera, you won't be able to have that in India. We created a ruler. So that was a regulation, right? And primarily because a lot of gullible customers were sharing their card details. There was a lot of phishing activities, et cetera, were happening and then regulator came in between and they said, hey, until our customers get evolved, they know how to make payment for every transaction there's a two-factor authentication. And you and me who are like evolved customer who know how to pay digitally, who know that we should not share our card details, CVV, et cetera, with anybody who's calling us, doing a call that hey, I'm calling from this merchant, you want this and give me your card details, et cetera. So for those customers who were educated enough, for us also the payment experience on online apps, et cetera, that got deteriorated. And that made us make a lot of solutions around it. The banks, et cetera, who were giving solutions had huge cost while this 0.75% and 1% that we hear now was not there like, I think around two years back, maybe not even two, one and a half years back. This regulation was not even there. People were charged around 2% even for debit card. They were like same rate. Most of the merchants were charged same rate for debit card credit card while there was no cost for debit card. Like I mentioned, similar to offline world for face-to-face payments. Similarly, even for online merchants, the merchants were charged way too much, way too much. Then they should have been, right? And again, the reason was that acquiring bank, issuing bank, they had to keep the systems running. They had some additional authentication mechanism which basically involves more cost. Every SMS that they send for an OTP and there's a regulatory requirement that you have to send an SMS post payment also. Eight paisa for OTP SMS, eight paisa for payment confirmation SMS, 16 paisa. And if you are making payment of 100 rupees, that's like their upfront cost which they can't even cover up, right? So for all of our banking partners, it was used. Like for us, we could send a much cheaper push notification in the app versus because it is regulatory for a bank to send an SMS, they had to. And now they have an additional obligation of sending an OTP also, so two SMS, right? So all those basically led to a lot of cost for the customer inconvenience, cost for the banking partners and the merchants because that cost was getting passed from the banks to the merchant ultimately. And for the customer because it was very inconvenient. For those customers who have experienced products outside of India, convenient way of making payment, for them it was really difficult to make payment in India. So in terms of regulation, as I mentioned, two factor authentication which came in August 2009 and till December 2016 that was there. Afterwards also it has been removed but that is conditionally removed. If you integrate some product of payment networks like master pass, et cetera, then for some merchants that two factor authentication for transaction up to 2000 if the customer agrees and doesn't opt out of the requirement, then basically customer can make payment. So for you and me who want to make payment and the merchant agrees to integrate such API, et cetera, they'll be able to give that seamless experience but as of now, it's still there, right? In terms of, if you look at infrastructure wise, we have so many products and it is such a confusion for the customer. Such a confusion for the customer that if I have to send money or make payment, I can use cart details on the merchant's website or app but if I want to send money to a merchant, I can't use that cart to send money to merchant's bank account. I will have to go by another route which is bank account or IFSC or mobile number, MMID, PIN, et cetera. So basically for a customer it is very confusing. For a customer, what we've done studies and what we found out that customers don't even know what is the difference between IMPS, NEFT, RTGS, they don't know actually. They don't understand all of that, right? And so basically, one is they don't understand. Second, we ask them to have different ways that if you have bank A, you will have to generate the OTP in app. If you have bank B, call on this number to generate your OTP or MPIN, et cetera. So you have various means of making payment for every minute, difficult for payment partners, payment service providers or merchants to educate the customer that that's how, how will you make payment? So it's very difficult for us to educate the customer. And then we try to build products around, I'll quickly wrap this up. We created funnels and we found out where is the customer getting dropped and why is he getting dropped? We tried to create those funnels and tried to create products like I mentioned where you can link your wallet, you can keep money in your wallet, even if you don't trust the merchant, it's okay, the money's safe with your PaydayM account and then you can use that money anywhere and you will have a same seamless way of making payment convenience, seamless way of making payment and have that experience. You can also, even if you don't have a credit card, we will allow you to buy a music pack on our app, right? Why should not be? In fact, the market for music apps is actually in those segment who do not have credit card, right? Otherwise, you and us, like we buy it on iTunes, et cetera, right? We are ready to use our credit cards, but a lot of customers, since there are 739 million debit card holders in the country and just 27 million credit card holders, so those debit card holders also needed a solution. So we created products around it and quickly wrapping through this, we try to create funnels and what we saw was that by creating such products where the customer was saving the card details and we were asking only the necessary information from the customer and doing most of the things for the customer, the funnel actually improved. This helped the merchant partners, the online merchant partners, because for them funnel was important, they were paying for getting, acquiring that customer on their website or app to whatever SC, SCM, et cetera, they were using. So it was a huge cost for them. And if this funnel is so bad, then they will not stick to that payment provider. At PID game, we had that opportunity or we had that basically the customer were trusting us. And we, to give you numbers, like 70% of the cards who have ever transacted online, ever, perceived with us. So for that merchant, it was so easy to connect because then the customer just have to enter CVV and OTP and OTP also, we tried to help them read the OTP on some kind of OS, et cetera. Thank you. Thank you, Perna. So we'll have a short question and answer session. I think there was a question here, here, here, here. The first three questions here. Hi, you said that you've managed to bring down card failures to 10%, right? What's the failure rate when it comes to net banking? Because as far as I still know, SBI still does not allow net banking on BATM. Right, and from the user to use SBI. Yeah, and what kind of challenges are there because of net banking? So, I'll just correct you here that we do have SBI net banking, but SBI net banking is not allowed for loading money in your wallet because that's what they're acquiring at the, basically that's what the issuing bank wanted. So we prompt the customer to use your debit card. And by the way, that helps because the success rate on the debit card is much, much higher, primarily because the customer is trusting the BATM platform to save the card. So the customers just have to enter CVV and OTP which comes in and we help the customer read the OTP also easily through RSDKs, et cetera. So conversion improves 10% because of the card saved with us. Hi, so just last night I was looking at the BATM app and you have, you can book your bus tickets, you can book flights. You seem to be taking on a lot of things outside of the core payment product that you had built. So I'm curious about what's driving that model where you want to go to all in one in your application only, where you want everybody. Yeah, I get this, but if you want to, you know, like if I want to pay for petrol, if I want to pay for my bus, let's say I'm on red bus, I'm booking there, I would like to pay through BATM, I want that to be the best experience possible as opposed to going into BATM and trying to buy it. I mean, that's just me, but I'm trying to see your point of view in going. So which phone do you have? iPhone. So you actually are not that real customer because you can afford to have 10 apps, right? But are real customers who cannot, right? They just want one or two apps and they want actually, they want to have WhatsApp, they want to have Facebook. So we want to be that one app which helps them use their money that they receive in their Paytm wallet and cover as many use cases that are possible for making payment. So that is why we are including these use cases, right? Yeah, that's an interesting reason. So thank you. Okay. We had a question here. Yeah. Hi, my name is Nishjit and I'm from Intuit. So the question I have is regarding the merchant onboarding and what are the risks involved here? So to elaborate a little bit in US what happens is we have a very large window for charge backs like if the customer is not satisfied with the product or service, the customer can actually go and file a charge back and he gets it right there. I mean, if it's the case, definitely. And then there are all this middleman like acquiring bank or the acquirer itself. So who takes a certain bit of risk because what if the merchant runs away or goes bankrupt? So even then the customer needs to get the money. So a lot of time the acquiring bank or the acquirer itself bears that risk. And that's why they get that MDR and other things. So what typically I've seen is the merchant onboarding is typically very risky because if you onboard the wrong merchant, we end up losing money. So what is the strategy around your... Yeah, I'll give you... So what, see basically the risk is not if the money is there in the system, right? I'm sure you would agree on this fact that if the money is there in the system, there is no risk. It is either there in one wallet or second wallet as long as the money is there. When we are onboarding our merchants, what we restrict is on the amount that they can take to their bank. So if you've provided set of documents A, you can only take up to 25,000 to your bank. You provide additional documents, we're allowed to 50,000. You provide some more documents to us, 5,000. And then if you provide all that complete set of documents that a typical acquiring bank asks for, we just make you unlimited acceptance and unlimited way of taking money to your bank. So the limit that we apply is not for the merchant onboarding because we know that every merchant is different. Every merchant is different. Every merchant's use cases, every merchant's requirements are different. A small mom and pop store is happy to have only 25,000 to their bank account because they know that they will do some mobile recharges, they will make payment for their kid's school fee, they will book one or two IRCTC tickets, et cetera, railway tickets and most of the money would get spent, right? Their fuel, payments, et cetera, all of them they can make payment through PTA. So additionally, they just require 25,000 in a month that they can take to their bank. So they just need to do their KYC, that's it. We don't, us, because we are restricting the, so we have not taken a blanket call on all these rakes. Obviously we are also a startup, we can't take that big risk. So what we have done is that we have bucketized our merchants. We had a question there. Hello. Yeah, so the payments infrastructure has scaled fabulously, but I think there are some concerns around the customer service. So how have you managed to sort of scale that as demonetization happened and other things? Just to give you numbers, we are getting around 1.5 lakh queries, customer tickets every day and we're solving. So we have a huge customer support team who solves 1.5 lakh tickets every day with more than 5 million transactions in a day. It's a good number. We are proud of it to be able to control it to actually 1 lakh over 5 million transaction, but that's not where we are stopping. We have a dedicated team who's still working on it as less as we can go. We have tried to restrict it to 1.5 lakh in this demonetization time also, but then our whole endeavor is to see that we don't get a ticket at all. Our customers are satisfied as soon as they get the service. And there's a question here. With UPI coming in, how do you see wallet players? Is it a necessity that first I get the money into my wallet and then use it versus there is a payment mode that is available which can directly do the debit and credit from my bank account. So, how is PTIM looking at that problem? And the second one is, how much of tier two or tier three merchants are accepting PTIM as a solution? Okay, to give you answer of your first question, UPI, we have integrated UPI on our app also for loading money in your wallet. That's the first step that we have taken. And once you become payment bank, we'd be able to, right now we are not allowed to as a PPI, you can't issue VPS, et cetera. Once we become payment bank, obviously, we will get that product launch as soon as possible. On your other question on tier two, tier three cities, I think we are almost everywhere now. We are getting transactions even from those cities which have less than one lakh population. So you're saying with UPI, there's no necessity to first put it into your wallet. So wallet as a product no longer makes sense once you're fully compliant with UPI. Once we launch payment bank and once our customers give their consent to open their saving account, they'll be able to issue them VPS, et cetera. And then maybe for those customers at least, yes, they can make payment through their VPA also. We will obviously give that as an option to the customer, but a lot of our customers are still those basic wallet holders which can accept up to 20,000 for them. The still means of making payment would be adding money there in their wallet and then making payment. There were questions at the back. There's one and there's one. Hi, I'm Raman. One of the payments, offline payment mode that was adopted by Paytm was calling into a toll-free number and making the payment. What exactly is the volume like? I'm sorry, I don't know. I'm not able to pay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so the payment through phone, payment through a phone call. There was a toll-free number that was circulated by Paytm, right? Sometime last month. And so was this one of Paytm's ways of penetrating into second and third tier cities or a rural market or, and what exactly were the volumes like? So that was the outcome of actually demonetization because a lot of Paytm customers who were using Paytm for online payments, mobile recharge, real payments, et cetera, they stepped out and they started making payment using, using Paytm and we saw that there was a drop in, funnel drop basically when you scan your, because of data not available in that customer at that point in time. So that's the reason that we launched that payment instrument. Yes, primarily if you look at it for tier to tier three cities, a lot of time we would face this challenge. We have been facing that challenge, I would say, where the customer is not having data connectivity. Last question from here because we have to sort of move on. Hello, my name is Sudeep. The question is Paytm is now becoming a bank. So obviously you're going to be having a lot of cash in your account. As a merchant, you said that you're going to charge us when we convert the Paytm cash wallet into cash. What are the kind of interest rates regimes you're going to have if I actually keep the, I mean, I have a choice whether I should keep the money as a Paytm currency or should I just cash it and then put it as money. And you have a lot of cash in your account now in the bank. So how are you going to use that cash as well to, so I just want to know what you're doing. So as soon as we become payment bank, actually a wallet will also go into payment bank only. That's a regulatory requirement that wallet will also move to Paytm payment bank as an entity. So all that cash actually goes to the bank only. And hence all that CRR, SLR requirements of the bank would be met through. So that bank money would be with the regulator. I mean, if I keep the money in Paytm account, do I get interest on it? Yeah, obviously yes. Thank you so much, Prerna. Please give a round of applause.