 There's a sense that there is some kind of a reality, something much, much deeper in my mind. So all the pain just comes from clinging to the way I've constructed my identity. And if that's the case, then of course the ego has a version for that. Like you were saying at the beginning, is this Holy Spirit, if there's struggle involved, then it cannot be the Holy Spirit. It must be the ego talking. And then also it's attributing the struggle to a particular form thing, a decision that's being made in form. Yes, number one, if there is struggle involved, Jesus says you cannot be listening to the Holy Spirit and learning His joyous lessons because there is no single instant when the mind can be listening to the Holy Spirit and struggling. Because that would make no sense at all. That would mean that the Holy Spirit's lessons aren't wholly joyous or there's some sacrifice or something, some lost sacrifice involved in listening to the Holy Spirit. The second thing is though, is that it will be perceived, Jesus says, over and over and over, that as you go along when you have to go through fear to get to the other side, that you have to walk through fear and pain. And I think one of my favorite places in the Course that really helps me reassures me. When I've had times when I think I've started, felt like I'm starting to really vacillate and go insane, one of them that really comes to mind is the one from the self-concept versus self-section on chapter 31. And it's, you know, we could go into the whole section because it was all set up. But basically the first page and the second page are just saying that, you know, the first paragraph that says, the building of a concept of the self is what the learning of the world is for. This is its purpose, that you come without a self and make one as you go along. And then as it goes on, it talks about the face of innocence, which I heard you describing a little bit, which is the one that was trying to smile in the conversation with Kathy. Meanwhile, underneath, like burble, burble, burble, I don't feel at peace. And the face is trying to put on a happy face or smile through it. And that's the face of innocence, the concept of the self so proudly wears, can tolerate attack and self-defense. And it goes on to talk about that. And then it talks about, beneath that is the lesson, you know, in terrible displacement and a fear so devastating that the face that smiles above it must forever look away, lest it perceive the treachery it hides. And I just go through those things to set up the passage that I'm really wanting to point to because I want to get to this idea that there will seem to be perceived illities or uncomfortable feelings that go with the journey. And to me, when I read a passage like that, it's kind of helpful to be being told that by Jesus because just like when he was telling the apostles, you know, there are trials coming up. It helps kind of prepare me. And the one I'm talking about is down there is the second to last paragraph. And I'll just read the paragraph. It begins, a concept of the self is meaningless or no one here can see what it is for and therefore cannot picture what it is. Yet is all learning that the world directs begun and ended with the single aim of teaching. That you will choose to follow this world's laws and never seek to go beyond his roads or realize the way you see yourself. Now must the Holy Spirit find a way to help you see this concept of the self must be undone if any peace of mind is to be given you. Nor can it be unlearned except by lessons aimed to teach that you are something else for otherwise you would be asked to make exchange of what you now believe for total loss of self and greater terror would arise in you. Thus are the Holy Spirit's lessons plans arranged in easy steps that though there be some lack of ease at times and some distress, there is no shattering of what was learned but just a retranslation of what seems to be the evidence on its behalf. So to me when we come together and we keep going into these very radical ideas that seem to be the complete flip-flop of the entire world that we've known and experienced, we have to keep coming at it and inviting the Holy Spirit to come amongst us to help us retranslate the world. There has to be something, there has to be concepts that we can grab onto in our mind that will be like the next rung to go to because it's the purpose, it's the top of the ladder that terrifies us. I think everyone who gets into the Course and has been in it for some time starts to sense that, wow, the direction this thing is leading me is this way and the direction that everyone that I pretty much know or have seemed to experience in my life is going this way. And there's all kinds of perceived losses, perceived, you know, I'll have to leave them behind and so on and so forth. And the top of the ladder is terrifying. So what we need to do is when we talk about concepts and we start to let ideas come to mind, it's possible things that we can grab onto, that's like the retranslation. Even those, I mean, are fearful in the sense that when we've even talked about the idea or concept of the teacher of God or prophetess, priestess, we've brought it as you have said, oh, I can't think in those terms even. And those are ones that are starting to approach going up and up the ladder because obviously he's guiding us towards something that doesn't really fit into the boxes of the world that we've known. The only thing that brought me any peace with this at all was the I am there because I just thought, you know, one of the things that I would do is try to analyze the whole thing. And so I said, I'm going to just lay it out there and I'm not going to try to analyze where it's coming from or why it's coming or anything, but it's there, it's just a conflict, it's distress, it's whatever. The peace is that somehow I'm going through this, it's my own lesson. I have to do this, whatever it is. And he's there, you know, but even reading this, you know, David, it's so hard. It's like you said, I feel like, you know, I'm being brought here, but it's kind of like dragged along because there's something back there I still want. You know, I don't even blame anybody, I still want. And when Kathy said, you know, I love Josh and the memories, I would never do without these memories of the children. And then the last thing, of course, she said is, can you imagine leaving Marcy for the summer? Which I, you know, which I took as, wow, that was great. Thanks to that one, that was really nice. But I mean, you know what I'm saying, that's, you know, can you imagine you're going to have such a fun summer with Marcy? Can you imagine leaving Marcy for the summer? And it was like sort of a dig, actually. And I said, you know, I said, Kath, I said it may seem that leaving Marcy for the summer would be sort of a crummy thing to do to Marcy. But if I were leaving Marcy for the summer to become more clear about my purpose and I was able then to come back and teach Marcy that higher purpose wouldn't that be more beneficial? And she said, well, maybe, but I just don't see why you'd have to leave her for the summer to learn your purpose, you know, of course that whole thing came up. So this is just really going through my mind. And you know, I talked to Marcy about it. And I said, how would you feel if I left you? And she goes, she thought I was going to Traverse City when I explained the whole thing. And I said, no, I'm not. And she said, well, I don't want you to. And I said, well, if I go to the trailer for a few days, she goes for a few days, you can do anything you want. Not the whole, you know, it was like that. So it's just a conflict. I mean, I see the higher purpose, but I'm obviously still not seeing the higher purpose. You know, I'm still conflicted about it. It's as if I'm going. It's not as if Rhonda's doing anything. It's as if I'm leaving. And because it's a symbol to me of what the mind is, what's going on here, you know, and that's scary to me. And yet another place that comes is I then visualize that higher purpose. I see a world without all these relationships and just people at peace. And I think that's wonderful. And then I go, that's unrealistic. It's never going to be. Maybe my psychologist was right. Life is meant to be a struggle. There are ups and there are downs. If you're trying to get like this, you're unrealistic. And now we're going to have, these are all, you know. Well, as we also come at it from the angle of, there's a line in the teacher's manual where Jesus says, no one can be angry at a fact. I respect that. No one can be angry at a fact. So it goes on to say it's always an interpretation that gives rise to anger. And we could just substitute for anger, just upset. General conflict, upset or whatever it's feeling. So it has to be an interpretation. So when we were here the last session, you know, we kind of got into this whole thing of purpose and everything. And you said, but in form, in form, Ron is leaving the kids. And what we really need to do is, it gets back to that thing about, is my seeing with the body's eyes reliable, is anything that I interpret in form? I mean, something could happen, and you know there could be 10, 15, 2,000 different interpretations of an event even, you know, based on the meaning that it has. So you look at politics, all this stuff that Clinton seems to be going through now, being charged with, you know, harassing, sexual harassment and so forth. I can't relate to that. But it's like it seems, the symbol seems to be coming pretty close to home. Home to what? I mean, that's what we need to work it into, because if I have a false concept or a false identity that I've got, I'm pretty tightly constructed and I value it. Not only, you know, is it there by my own making, but I have some value for it, then anything that even seems to be a symbol that is a threat to that is where all this stuff gets flushed up and everything. You know, the ideas of motherhood or a mother and her children and the bonding and the different things we've talked about, I mean, those are all concepts in the mind, but they seem now to be more than concepts. They seem to be a reality, as if my world is built around that reality. So I guess what we can do is just take it from there and work in. Maybe we have something along those lines. Well, actually, the last time we came together, there were a couple of times that I wanted to share. Did I share with you on the phone the whole analogy or did Rhonda about cancer? Yeah, somehow that seems applicable here. It does seem applicable, but you know what happened with that then I started thinking about, again, I'm doing this for myself. I'm healing my own mind. I'm healing my own body. I'm healing myself. I'm doing this for myself as bothering me and I know that I'm doing this for somebody else, but I feel like Steve's maybe right. I am doing it for myself. He's the one struggling. He's the one working. He's the one doing everything and I'm here doing this for myself. And if you had cancer and it was necessary for you to be away from the family to do what was necessary. I feel guilty about that too and I'd probably be dying of the cancer because I'd be so guilty. I would. I would. I mean, just going to doctors makes me feel guilty. Spending the money has made me feel guilty. Today, I had to go to Cardio and all I could think, then I ordered an echo and I said, I wonder how much that's going to cost. I'm feeling terribly irresponsible right now. I appreciate what you shared because I've been going through a lot of feelings too and feeling really crazy. A couple of things comes up for me. Number one, I noticed the peace and the joy that I feel when I'm in my right mind and when you talk about feeling guilty if you had cancer. I mean, it's like, when I'm in my wrong mind, it doesn't matter what it is, I'm going to feel guilty because I know that it's not the truth. I'm like, this question keeps coming up in my mind of other things I want to share but I feel like this has to come out first. When we were at Mary's a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about talking to your friends and I had said something to the effect that I felt like that was an unwise thing to do and you said, well, I'm not going to give up my friends. I guess this is the question that comes up for me in view of what happened today with you and your friends is I question the wisdom of doing that because of the, as you said, the challenge that you have in explaining the course right now because you're a novice at it and also that it brings back the conflict from friends when I notice that what's going on in my life is the example about giving me enough to deal with that I don't need to go out and try to talk to somebody about this that what I need to do is be it and extend the love because when I, and I see this trip coming up to Michigan next week is going to be a powerful opportunity for me to stay in that learning that it's always my mind and that I just