 Welcome to Toffy TV today. I am joined by half of the dynamic duo, our greatest ever midfield partnership. It is Paul Bracewell. What a player. Paul, thanks for joining us. My pleasure. You keep them well, you're looking good. Yeah, trying to, a few more great hairs these days, but still trying to stay fit. Still got the brace swoop though, it's still looking good there mate. Yeah, still got the gel on. I read something today and I just, you can tell me if this is right. Were you born in Hezwell? Yes, yes. Never, ever knew that. I just thought for some reason, I just thought you were from Stoke. Probably because you played with them. Yeah, a lot of people thought that with me going to Stoke as an apprentice, but no I was born in Hezwell. Long time ago. Not that long ago. How did that move come about then? Obviously Everton had just won the FA Cup. How did you move to Everton come about that? Alan got the sack towards the end of the season and the manager came in, Llanashios. He wanted to generate some funds to bring players in. I signed a three-year contract, went up the sun and they decided to sell me and obviously with the connection with Howard. The season had finished and obviously Everton were preparing for the Cup final. I was with the under 21s at the time so we were flying out to, I think it was Spain I think for the first leg. So I actually met Howard the week before the Cup final in a hotel in London with me dad. I've said this before, this probably wouldn't happen anywhere else these days. I agreed everything with Howard and just didn't sign a contract. Just agreed everything verbally, signed a blank contract. I asked me if I wanted to go to the final, but the following week we had the second leg of the under 21. Obviously delighted, watched the game. We won the under 21 championship and then managed to sign for Everton. Not a bad summer then, you won that and we won the FA Cup. So quite a nice summer there and a debut against Liverpool at Wembley. Yeah, obviously joined up pre-season, went on pre-season and a real good pre-season. But was obviously joining a club that obviously like you said just won the FA Cup. And you could smell that they wanted more of the lads. But like you said, my first game was against Liverpool at Wembley. Actually my last game for Everton was at Wembley as well. So quite a few little scenarios there. Yeah, we'll come on to that. But yeah, it's weird how that game was pivotal in so many parts of your evident career. You just said the lads wanted more there obviously after winning the FA Cup. Could you sense that when you come into it? That this was a team that was trying to be on the up. And obviously up with the addition of you as well that summer. Yes, and funny enough when I played it after the game, Howard actually said to me. He said a lot of people didn't know your brace, but they do know you now. And he was, you know, I'm sure you spoke to most of the lads in that era. And the first one is always the most difficult one. And they got the first one, like a manager, a coach, or a player. And once you've had success, you want more. You know, I won the European Championships with the U21. So I had a little taste of it. So I knew what it takes it to win things. But we just went from strength to strength. Certainly did. I mean, no one saw the next couple of games coming. We had Spades at home and lost 4-1 on the opening day after taking the lead. And then we were beating at West Brom with me in the mid-week. Before we go to Chelsea on the Friday in a televised game in this kit there, actually. And we win the game with you today. A tremendous assist for Kevin Richardson. Yeah, I mean, that just shows you the belief. You know, like you said, expectations are really high in the FA Cup. We had a good pre-season, get beat the first two games. But that just shows you, you know, a big tough game going down to Chelsea. And I suppose that really kickstarted the season. I didn't know another great one after that. I was going through the results again today. You scored your first league goal against Chelsea at home in a 4-3 defeat in December. And I remember those games in the Gladys Street. Again, I was going to say, you're going to have to remember that one. I can't remember that. No, no. I wasn't. But now you scored your first league goal for us, but that was a mad game. I can remember them in the yellow kit with the hoops. But what was really interesting about that game was we lost that game. In December. And then we didn't lose for 28 games, which, as an Evertonian now, not saying great times for a number of years, just going back on that run is absolutely bizarre to think 28 games in all competitions ending with a 1-0 defeat at Nottingham Forest in May. I was just going to say, even in today's terms, in the Premiership now, a few said we've gone 28 games. That is some run. Unbelievable, unbelievable. Fighting on all fronts was absolutely unbelievable. Going on to that, the second half of the season, then obviously we got on that great run. I've just mentioned 28 games. We had the 14ers sit-out, getting past them, and then obviously buying Munich, which was an incredibly tough game at the time. They were probably one of the top teams in Europe, albeit in the Cutmans Cup, still an incredible side. A great result over there in Munich set us up, didn't it, for that night at Godderson Park? Yeah, I mean, I think it's been mentioned before. I think the way we set up, you listen to some of the manager and the coaches of the modern era, where a lot of the things that we've done in our time, over the way we set up to go across there, happy to keep a clean sheet. And to be fair, a lot of people at the time thought that should have been the final. But to go across there and get the result, something like 1,000 people, and then to bring them back, obviously, it gave us a great opportunity, keeping that clean sheet over there. I mean, what was it like playing in that game at Godderson? I said this to Andy, I bunked off school and got there about so early waiting to get in, queuing, it was in the grand of our A5, and the noise was just unbelievable. When you came out to warm up, the noise was incredible, and the atmosphere and what a night in our history, the greatest night probably in evidence history. Yeah, and to be honest, I played in cup finals, played for England, but that night was something very special, even getting to the ground, you've seen the last couple of years, European nights, it was exactly the same, trying to get through the crowds, the whole place was jumping. And as we've said before, the result was an unbelievable night and I think everybody who was there, who wasn't there, was never trying to load, remember that, I know the players, especially, you know. What was it? When you went 1-0 down at half-time, going in that dressing room, was there a feeling that we can still do that? The calmness of that team had demonstrated all season, was that still there that night, even though it was the away goal, even though it was against a top team in Europe, was that belief still there? Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think it goes back to your earlier question when we got beat the first two games of the season, that inner belief, it set us up all the way through and we knew at half-time that we were going to win the games and it was that, so much positive, and when you've got winners in that dressing room and you're looking round, so I didn't have any doubt at all that we were going to go on and win it, 100%. Yeah, and the second half was there, isn't it, in the history books, it was an incredible performance by us and that second half, Trevor Stevens' goal, the icing on the cake was just capped a great performance, but you and Mr Lee, to have a good battle in the middle of that part, didn't you? He's walking on with Claret all over his sock, as he likes to say it, but it was a tough game to play in that second half, wasn't it? Yeah, to be honest, it was only probably three or four months ago that I actually sat and watched a full game and it sort of coincided with the film that the lads made, and I sat there and watched it from start to finish, and I didn't realise at the time how brutal it was, how physical and brutal it was, and it brought real memories back, but that was literally the first time I sat and really watched, I'd watched highlights and bits and pieces, but it was a proper, proper game, you know, proper, never say diatatures, you know, and the support, as you can imagine, I mean the atmosphere was unbelievable, you get it to some degree from watching the game, but actually if you were there, it was incredible. Yeah, unbelievable game, and like I said, the greatest game I've ever been to is unbelievable. We demonstrated that kind of never say diatitude in the other semi-final against Luton, obviously 1-0 down with a few minutes left, we'd already done it in the FA Cup haven't we, with Ips Richard home and Degsy had scored in the quarter-final last few minutes, Luton were 1-0 down with 3 or 4 minutes to go and you wouldn't want anyone over the baller than Kevin Sheedy in that situation, would you, with that left foot? Yeah, and again I think that, you know, if you were at the game there was an inner belief again, it wasn't panic no, keep sticking to what we know and we'll get the results and that's when you can get that juggernaut going and that belief it takes some stopping and I think, you know, the supporters again took the ball in it was another great night and people talked about the invincible you know, we never ever thought we were going to get beat. I don't think we did as fans, it was just on to the next one, on to the next one and one of the games I want to talk to you about was the Sunderland the home, the 4-1 and that pass from you, but even in that game I remember being sat with my dad in the Low Bullens and Ian Wallace scored after about 80 seconds or whatever it was and I remember saying to my dad that's good, that'll mean we'll play even better cos it was almost like you wanted us to be poked with the stick and then the real dominance, everything came out and that's exactly what happened but listen, what a pass to Trevor Stephen, what a pass did you mean it? Of course, I can remember the pass I might not remember the first ball but I can say it we didn't need poking you know but it was one of those again 1-0 down but then we steamrolled him again and I think it was the first time I played against one since I left but no, a lot of people obviously mentioned that but don't worry it was well measured. I'm only messing with you it was unbelievable unbelievable, it was a pass that if it was made today would be shown time and time again and particularly because obviously Trevor on and finishes it, which means that it's always remembered because you probably made well you did make lots of passes like that playing for us, that didn't always end in goals but that one is just measured to absolutely perfection and if it was made with the tongue hanging over that you were, it just made it look better but no, no obviously we go on and we get to the FA Cup final and we get to Rotterdam but obviously we had the little matter of winning the league and the anticipation building up and then napped that day Sheffield Wednesday in, I don't know whether you can see it we had that Catherine, here the yellow one of Sheffield but Andy Gray was telling me what a great goal he scored the scuff and hills but never saw for that day it was incredible wasn't he yeah for me at that time was for me the best goal keeping the world and I still stick by that unbelievable but there were some world class players and then in today's that final week we're going for the treble and again it's if we'd have won that treble again there's not many teams have done that but we were good for it and it was a little bit like you said before won the league, move on next one but when it's cut, move on next one and that's the mentality that we had at the time What was the QPR game like the home game so obviously when the day we finally won it big crowd wasn't it mondi, great day what was that like to play in yeah again it was we'd won the league and all the lads unbelievable day but our thought process was where's the next one next one's coming yeah done that fantastic in the bag and that's how it was yeah you could see that's why that team was so good that mentality of let's get the next one done through, Andy Gray was saying the wrap of Vienna game there was just a belief in the dressing room that they weren't even on the same page is what we were and it kind of bore out that way didn't it when you watched the game back we never had a save in the first but other than that they done nothing until obviously Crankle scored later on but it was a superb performance wasn't it from you and the lads yeah and again it wasn't until I saw the film in the film that showed you a lovely clip of us keeping the ball and moving the ball and stuff like that but again, tune it up they're going to get one and all of a sudden we raise it again 3-1 and again it was next one move on, another big game coming up and when you're playing games like that you want the next one to come as well do you think if we'd have had another day, another two days we'd have been united on the Saturday I think there was a lot of talk after was in terms of had the games caught up with us and went into extra time I mean it was a last minute of extra time and to beat Neville from there was some going if we'd have finished with 100% beating him in the replay but it wasn't to be it was a cruel end to an unbelievable season really yeah it was so frustrating wasn't it because as a fan I can say, I think if we'd have had another day I think a day's rest I think we'd have beaten him because we were just better than on the door had he beaten him, having me in the league we beat him 5-0 we knocked him out of the league we were much better side and I think Wembley coming on because Andy Graves saying he got back late on the early hours of Thursday and then Friday was about rest and recuperation and then the game was the Saturday maybe we'd have just had that little bit of sharpness there yeah, possibly but that's why when you're in troubles if you win that you never even mention about the travelling things like that and that's why it's so special if you can win that trouble to win the double was unlabeled but to get the trouble we wouldn't be talking about the rest and the recovery and another day would be fantastic next one you know an excuse to say just that was the way it was obviously that year was a great year personally for you, you had three England caps that year as well hadn't you and rightly so and many were talking about the world cup will come onto that in a bit but the European ban obviously came a couple of weeks after after the wrap of Vienna and do you think that team could have gone on the one of the European cup? yeah definitely, 100% but we'll never know we'll never know but it was one of those where we'd won two we nearly won three charity shield again we won so we'd have gone again 100% and it was just a shame it was out of our control and who knows obviously the team broke up and it would have been lovely to stay together and had a real good go at it I'm sure you remember when you got the injury did you know at the time did you know at the time and it happened that it was a bad one or was it just an impact challenge if Billy White asked wasn't it who caught you? yeah I knew it was bad we got on the coach in those days had a couple of injections just for the pain and then in those days we went to a nursing home so we travelled back, went to the nursing home and in those days the swelling settled down I had x-rays and scans and there was no break so in some respect I was relieved and managed to get back trying to play but I was never the same and up until that summer I was keeping my fingers crossed to go to the World Cup but deep down I knew I had a real problem with the ankle over two years and six operations later but I must say in terms of Everton as a club I've seen a good times but I also saw the bad times where after five operations and a lot of questions asked I've been out for nearly two years I went to see the top specialist in the country in London and he said look I don't want to operate he's had five operations and to be fair the docker, the time docker the best guy in the world and there was a guy called Roger Manning in San Francisco and literally within two days I was on a plane with my dad and we flew out to see this guy in San Francisco I was due to be there for three days first day was an assessment second day was looking at my scans and the third day he was going to come up with a conclusion so on the third day they found a piece of bone which had been there for the last 18 months had been growing and he said operate, spoke to the club and said yeah fine and he operated and I stayed out there for another five days and then came back so and it was one of those moments where when I woke up because I'd been out for so long and it got to the stage where some people were doubting whether after five operations was he going to get back and I always remember bringing the bottle back with a piece of bone and I remember how at the time after my first operation he asked to see me, I went in on crutches when he plastered it and sat down and said Brace, I want to offer you a new deal you know and I mean never materialised but again that tells you what sort of club and managed you they were at the time they looked after me brilliantly and I managed to get back playing after two and a half years which was a long time in anybody's career just go back to that 86 season after that though because when I was going through the games obviously you played three games after New Year's Day you had three games out Blackburn in the FA Cup we beat them 3-1 and you were in the team again and then you were out for a couple of games but you played so many games till the end of the season that obviously you know there was an assistant in FA Cup semi-final for Graham Sharpe's volley with his socks on and your ankles so how were you getting through those games because you were playing most of the games and then it was just missing the odd game or you know how were you getting through the pain or was it interjecting all the time it was it was a mixture of both and if I jumped back forward when I found the piece of bone what happened was when I first did the injury in in the 86 the piece of bone had flaked off and was actually growing so when I was when I was getting up in the morning and trying to move that the pain was excruciating so once I got it moving and the bone was moving I managed to get through but sometimes a half time I always remember a game at Anfield where I come in and I was struggling to walk, rats has come after me there's nothing wrong with you so I went and people took that one through the pain barrier I went through the pain barrier but it was for me there was only one person knew how bad it was and that's why it was very much stop, stop, stop, stop I didn't used to train a lot I would ice it half time I would ice it after the game and then just really get myself up and then go away and that's why at the end I had to get it sorted that was obviously with Everton but also with the World Cup as well You come off at Anfield didn't you when you won 2-0 you had to come off in that but then you're back in the team and stuff coming towards the end of the season we get but like I've just said you set the winner up for Sharp in the semi-final we're at the FA Cup final again we're going for the league and we had two everybody talks about the Oxford United game when Les Phillips scored and Gary Linnich had missed quite a few chances that night and the reason why people go on about that was because he never really missed a lot of chances so I think that's why it's always highlighted but there was a game of forest three, four days before that and we drew 0-0 in that one and that was an opportunity and I think we forget that I don't know how you view it and you played in the game so you could tell me differently but as fans I remember after that forest game thinking well that was a tricky game and once we beat Oxford we're all right and yet the two of them not winning either of those games essentially cost us the title didn't it yeah they all said there's never an easy game and you talk about Gary and that was one of Gary's strengths he never bothered him if he missed a chance he'd keep going and keep going and keep going and sometimes over a season that's why to win the league is the pinnacle and like those two games did cost us in the end what was real obviously Liverpool ended up winning it and then we've got the weak building up to that the final again are we you approaching that were you worried about the ankle going into that or were you just switched on thinking this is hard let's beat these and let's get that trophy yeah very much so and I'd begin to what was good and what was bad for me obviously the manager knew in terms of my chain training regime in terms of getting myself ready but I also like you said the back in mind I knew and there's only one person I knew and it was me I knew my body and I knew I wasn't right but again injection whatever you're not going to miss a cup final but the same time I was always going to get picked on merit and it wasn't through sympathy or anything like that so I knew I had to produce a performance you were playing well enough otherwise you were just obviously winning at 100% maybe but even Paul Braishwell's 98% 95% was still good enough but just when you think back to that cup final obviously Linnick has scored and from a fans perspective Sheedy misses a good chance just after half time nearly 2-0 but we were in control of it and that was against them they were a great side obviously they just won the league but we were in control of the game was that the feeling as a player on the pitch that we were on top in the game or did you not really let yourself think like that you always know you need a second goal especially against a good side like that and we needed that second goal like you said if she gets that it's a different game once we get it but again we didn't win for me it was a killer second cup final absolutely nightmare answer but then that was the last game you played then wasn't it for two and a half years which is so you went away and had an operation was that what were they operating on if they didn't know where the bone was what were they operating on just your ankle well what happened was the initial scan found some bone so they go in remove it you're six weeks in plaster you come out you do your rehab and then from the medical point of view and from my point of view all great done it and all the sudden you get back to a stage and you break down where you scan it or there's some more bone in there so you go back in another part do that you have your six weeks you come back out so the whole process you know every time they went in there was an issue or there was a problem but that takes time and like I said after the fifth one when I went to America the guy said straight away you're scanning we've got far superior scans over here and I could see on the screen they picked it up just like that now in hindsight if I had gone there from day one it might have been a totally different picture but like I said I was lucky enough the clubs took by me and we eventually got to the bottom of it and I think for me psychologically and mentally all the pain and grief I went through because as you rightly said lads are saying well you look all right you're playing all right and I'm saying it's killing me coming off at half time and things like that but they also knew like you said there must be something wrong with Brace if he's saying there is so it was a long two and a half years I can assure you but going back to the film we did recently it was an unbelievable I mean I got a mug the other day and it was 35 years since the bottom unit game which was an unbelievable memory and I think that group of players will always be will always come back together I think even 10, 15 years if there's an event I'm sure they'll always try and get back together so much respect for each other Mae yn ped yw dyw dyw dyw dyw dyw ddiswyr at the St George's Hall for the Howard's Way film and seeing it all back together we spoke to you briefly before it but seeing it all back together was incredible incredible from a fans perspective to see that team and to hear the respect that you all have for each other is I think it's quite unique obviously Kevin Macleiff wasn't it but everybody else was John Clincard was there still looking sharp all these years later but just quickly on the film before it got back to you it's a really well put together film by Rob Sloman he's done a brilliant job with it but did it make you feel proud again once you've seen all of that the way it was put together to be part of that history of Everton Football Club Yeah I mean obviously jumping back to that night you would have said after when we did the Q&A after and obviously that didn't go out but I know people that had come to watch the film who didn't really know the players but watched the film and then sat and listened to the players and they said it was unbelievable to put that name and face and the characters on there and what you saw after was what you saw on the screen and that for me I thought was brilliant and then going back to I forgot now what you asked me It's a great film isn't it first and foremost but does it make you proud to be part of that bit of the history of the club and adding that experience as a player with those lads Yeah I mean when Rob come on and they decide to do it 100% and it was Ken Richardson came to my house and I haven't seen Kev for a while and we did some bits and pieces together but having done it and filmed it we didn't really know what it's going to look like until it actually came out so we were a little bit like you the anticipation what's it going to look like what's it going to feel like and I thought it was brilliant from doing our bits and pieces and how they put it all together I think it's a really really good film really enjoyed it you know loved it, loved every minute of it and it's quite emotional as well and when you look back and you see particularly the 85 you see the shot at the post in the cuff file at nil nil little things you forgot about and you think it was so close to being even better we've been an incredible team but so close to being even better that it was quite emotional and obviously the only sad thing about it was that Howard wasn't there to to have seen all you lads back together in the one room and him to be there as well cos you know you see the way he looks at that team and he absolutely loved it and that's one sad element that he wasn't around to see it wasn't it yeah I mean that was but you know he had so much respect from the players you know I'm sure he'd be looking down and I went to his funeral you know it was a fantastic, I mean funnels you know I've had occasions but I think with him it was a celebration that's how he would have wanted it as well but again that just shows you what was created there when you watch the film and you see the crowds and it was an unbelievable period of the club but you know Everton's a great club you know and I've played for some big clubs but Everton will always be you know once it moves it will always be my club You come on as sub and make entire trophy against United are all trafficked in August for about 15 minutes and then it was a while later but was your first start back at Aramfield in the league game after you come back you'll know better than me yeah your first start so your last game for the injury was the Cufffile at Wembley 86 and your first start back in the league was your first start for the club on 11th December 1988 Aramfield in a one month row and what's interesting about that is we've only had two penalties in 90 odd years at Aramfield but we had that one that day when Wayne Clark scored but it's mad isn't it now you were out for so long and the first game back is Aramfield against Attlow yeah my first debut was at Liverpool as well you know when I was a kid at Stoke Stoke, first Everton game at Wembley against Liverpool last game for two and a half years against Liverpool first game back but that must have been an emotional moment for you though starting a game having like you said five operations in thinking am I done is you know will I play again and then two and a half years later you know your back starting in the music side of Aramfield yeah and that's why all the hard work and the support you've had makes it worthwhile I went to play until I was 37 you know and I missed a big chunk and you know I think 700 odd games so I would have hopefully have played another couple of hundred games as well you know so people say play as long as you can and that was very much like that all I wanted to do was play for more get back fit and try and play pain free which was the first time in a long time that I was able to do it it was 50% less moving in one ankle but you know my game had changed it had to change so I went on and managed to play till I was 37 never passed a miracle after that as you can imagine but still managed to play it again do you know incredible incredible going to Wembley then for that cup final what was that like as a player was it was it focused on we want to beat these or was it a difficult one cos obviously you played an FA cup finals before the last one you played in was against Liverpool this one was against Liverpool as a fan I felt like a bit guilty for wanting us to win it of what's gone on but as a player I mean that stopped don't get me wrong that stopped when the game started I wanted us to win but as a player was it difficult or was it just the case of now we want to win this now because we're here what was great to see was a mixture again of the blue and the red for the game and I think it was it was for the whole city really for what it had been through and it was again it was a difficult game to play in but making no mistake we wanted to win they wanted to win as well but again I think the build was different on both sets it wasn't a normal build up to a cup final very conscious and very respectful of what had happened on that day you know definitely you ended up coming off a shoot McCall that day were you struggling with injury or was that a tactical thing from Colin no I think it was tactical if you come on you come but again it was not a great finish either no I mean McCall comes on and scores one worldie didn't he score two goals but obviously we lost the game and give what's really weird about it that was the last appearance you made for Everton so two FA Cup finals against Liverpool resulted in us not seeing your remont for two and a half years after it and the other was forever so it kind of just completed your first game for Everton was at Wembley against Liverpool your last game for Everton was at Wembley against Liverpool it's sort of such a strange such a strange thing another strange thing is I eventually went back with someone as captain against Liverpool you know from your fourth one oh in 1992 so they came back up again you know so yeah it was surreal definitely Can I just ask you very quickly about Carlo Anciolotti and the appointment were you surprised Everton were able to get him and do you think it's a good appointment having obviously you've been first team coach and stuff in the Premier League was it difficult to this a job to do? To be honest I first met him probably about four or five years ago when he was at Real Madrid I went across and met him whether he remembers that I'm not sure but I spent a couple of days there he was brilliant a lot of time for me really enjoyed his company but Everton is a big club people mustn't forget and if he can bring back the glory days I'm sure with the backing he's got he'll do that he's got a great track record and Everton is like I keep saying Everton's a big big club so they're ambitious like they always have been so to go and get the best people and the best players that's what Everton do Just very quickly you were spent two days with him and what kind of a coach is he on track or tactician or what? He's very much organised he's at a stage of his career I remember working with Dick Advocate Dick was very similar he would come out just his presence standing there but make no mistake he doesn't miss anything he does not miss anything if he sees anything he'll step in he's got good stuff around him but make no mistake he's the manager Brilliant, absolutely brilliant Paul listen, thank you so much for taking time out tonight to have a chat, being brilliant and obviously demanding me what it was like when we were amazing and you were very much part of that and just look after yourself keep that yell on there because it still suits you It's lovely, my pleasure Cheers Paul, stay safe See you again soon Take care mate Cheers Big thanks there to Paul Bracewell for taking time out of his night to join us fantastic me feel player and absolutely brilliant to chat with them there Reminis like I've just said Reminis, make sure you check out the Howard's Way film Paul very much part of that as well make sure you subscribe give the video a thumbs up and if you want more videos like this or more interviews like this join us over on Peyton Thanks for watching, see you later