 Our first caller is mark from New Jersey mark. What's up, man? How can we help you? Hey guys? so I've been working out and playing competitive sports probably for over 20 years now and I'm finding that it takes a bit longer to recover and I'm looking at different, you know, kind of different Schemes methodologies to actually get to the point where I can keep doing what I'm doing without feeling like I did a thousand dead lifts the day after I play a soccer game So I've been looking into one of the things I looked into was Doug Brignoli's His workout plan where it's mostly like it's pure isolation And I'm just wondering what you guys I know it's leaving a lot on the table as far as CNS signaling and stuff like that, but I'm wondering what you guys think about that as like a Kind of a prehab rehab kind of thing Yeah, okay, so that's a good question. All right, so first and foremost there are Corrective type exercises that are used to connect to certain muscles that you may have issues Firing or connecting to during certain movements physical therapists use movements like this all the time They're not traditionally the bodybuilder isolation movements, but they are isolation movements nonetheless and In that particular application, there's some value But the goal is not to stay in there But rather to use those movements as a way to get the person to move better In you know more complex movements because you know everyday life involves lots of complex movements and very little Kind of single joint isolation type movements. Now the guy you're referring to I'm familiar with and In his approach is somewhat like this. I go to the doctor and I say hey doc My knees bother me when I squat and so the doctor says oh don't squat anymore Or I say hey doc my knees, you know my ankles bother me when I walk a lot and the doctor says Yeah, yeah, don't walk it a lot anymore and it'll stop hurting now part of that's true You stop doing what's bothering you and you'll start to feel better But here's the problem with that you start to lose the ability to do the other stuff and you're not addressing really the root cause The root cause of a lot of these issues isn't the necessarily the exercise like squats or deadlifts But rather the improper application or lack of connection lack of mobility your inability to stabilize Or maybe your inability to recover because it's too much intensity in combination All the other stuff that you're doing so nothing necessarily wrong with this approach But it's definitely going to result in your and you losing the ability to do what you what you can probably do right now Or just going further down that path So I don't think isolation movements are key complex movements are You just got to be able to do them right and you have to address the issues that are preventing you from doing them properly And then apply them properly you might just be applying too much intensity in the context of your overall lifestyle I'm always I'm always torn with with questions like this and this approach like I don't necessarily disagree with His philosophy on on training because I think there's a majority of people that don't know how to apply intensity correctly to your point So and so a safer easier way to do that is let's just focus on isolation movements and it's more control It is and it's a it's a lot easier not to overdo it and hurt yourself because it's an isolation exercise versus something That's like a big compound movement that being said I think that there's tremendous value in Training these compound lists, but just understanding that where you're at in your life Like the way I train a compound lift even today just at 40 and I'm not 50 right? So I approach it different than what I just did that I did 10 years ago 10 years ago I was I was so Infatuated with how much more weight can I put on my back where when I squat today? I care more about the movement, you know How does it feel as I go through the squat and that that load could be a hundred plus pounds less than what I was doing? Just five ten years now. Do I look at it and go oh my god? I'm so much weaker than I was before like no it's not like that just I have different goals in my life I'm older. I'm a father now. I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody I've already built the best physique I could probably ever build on my body like I'm just not at that place in my life anymore But I and I don't want to lose the skill of being able to squat Astagrass or deadlift good amount of weight, but I but I also don't need to lift the most in in the room anymore either So my approach towards those movements is just different I just I look at it like the skill of the movement and if it's off at all or I feel like it's wearing on my body That's always a great indicator that okay I'm not addressing mobility in my hips or oh I need to work on my ankle mobility more And I use squatting and deadlifting overhead pressing these movements as great get in fact yesterday I was I hadn't done a barbell overhead press and literally maybe a month And I was it was actually really hard for me to extend my arms all the way over my head And I was doing a 45 just the bar, you know Even though I've shoulder pressed 225 over my head. I'm not I don't care about that right now What I noticed was oh wow my lats are really tight I have a hard time fully extending right now and now it's an indicator for me to go back use my my maps prime pro program and Address some of my in mobility in some of my shoulder and potentially tightness in my lats And so I use these compound lifts today to be a gauge of improving my movement not so much how much can I hammer the body and so That's my one thing I don't like about programs that decide to just dismiss these these movements that are fundamental Yeah, and I want to add something to in terms of like the isolation movements. It's a great helpful tool for Coaches to be able to identify, you know, like a disconnect So if there's a muscular disconnect there if there's a lagging body part if there's you know Some kind of a lack of like mind-muscle connection, you know We could sort of microscope zoom in and see, you know, how to address that and I think it's a very Helpful way to kind of you know, bring that back for the overall But if you stay and you live in that type of methodology, you're gonna create more dysfunctions for you Like think about the overall patterning of movement and how your body is able to organize itself You know for the overall you're gonna have, you know issues with that when you come back to, you know Your sports specifically so this is one thing that really irritates me Is when I see, you know athletes go into this direction of isolated movements and they come back to perform and There's just so many dysfunctions to deal with it and address at that point. Well, no, there are no isolation isolated movements in No, it's in any movement compound. Yeah, and any move. Okay, so here's here's the I'll give you an analogy mark Just kind of illustrate this comparison this false comparison that certain people will make so let's say I say, okay hitting a nail with the rock is far more effective Than using a hammer and you think to yourself like what how's that even possible? And then I show you the comparison on the one hand We got a person using a rock to hammer the nail on the other hand We got someone throwing a hammer at a nail across the room Well, yeah in that case the rock is gonna be more effective If I compare a leg extension to a crappy squat with poor mobility and no connection Yeah, this the leg extension is gonna be safer and better than a crappy Poor connection lack of mobility squat so that that's a false comparison We got to compare good to good, right? Like a good and I've heard and I if I'm not mistaken maybe correct me if I'm wrong mark, but Doug Brignoli will refer to like isolation movements as being more efficient than Compound lifts or compound lefts are inefficient, right? Well, it's that there's a lot of load that does not go into the target muscle Yeah, essentially that's that's not how the body works and I get what he's saying In a lab we can measure that but it doesn't translate into the real world. There isn't a single Serious lifter and any strength sport or even bodybuilding That's gonna say a leg extension is gonna build your quads more than any pick your compound lift lunges barbell squats leg Press hack squat. I don't care. No one's gonna. No one's gonna say that we know that we know in practice That the compound lifts just they just are far more effective You know when we're comparing apples to apples, but at the end of the day mark what you want to look at is okay Why are these compound lifts hammering my body so much? Why are they making me feel terrible? It's not the lifts. That's how you're performing them And it's also it's how you're applying them what kind of intensity your form your technique and your connection if you fix those things You'll get phenomenal results out of those compound lifts But here's the best part mark the pursuit of fixing those things will also get you amazing results So it's not like you have to wait for a year before you could do a really good squat or really good deadlift Your pursuit of getting there is gonna still get you phenomenal results Versus I only do these isolation exercises in which case you actually slowly lose your ability to do gross motor movements because Gross motor movements or movement in general involves muscle. Okay, that's true muscles have to contract But there's skill involved. There's the way the muscles fire and work Together, that's why a somebody who lifts a lot of weight in the gym isn't gonna feel as strong on the mat as a Trained wrestler right the wrestlers and have smaller muscles each muscle probably contracts with less force Individually than a bodybuilder, but man when they grab you they know how to apply it. They know how to use leverage There's a skill involved and it feels like they're a lot stronger anybody who's ever trained in mixed martial arts We'll tell you this so so that's what you want to focus on and and there are lots of people in our space who take What they do is they take this kind of aesthetic minded bodybuilder mentality They go extreme with it and then because they're smart they can articulate it in a very Misguided way that sounds kind of smart. So the average person listens goes well that kind of makes it seem and oh Let me look at a picture of the guy. Oh, he's ripped. So maybe he knows what he's talking about Which I'll tell you right now in my space There's a lot of really ripped-looking people that know well nothing about I don't think I don't think it's just that either I think it also matters what marks specific goals are and I'm assuming that with with your athletic background That you don't want to lose that ability to do some of those things or you at least want to keep it as long as you can and Yeah, and definitely, right? So I am so that that's the part I think is the most important of this conversation because be be honest There's nothing wrong. I used to I used to ironically I was more this guy when I was younger where I used to say I'm all show no go. I just want to look good. No girls ever that asked me how much I benched when I take my shirt off So that was my mindset as a young kid, but it's different now today Today I care more about being able to get down sit down all the way on the ground and play with my son Without feeling like my back is on fire or my knees or my hips are on fire So different goals in my life. So that matters here, right? And if you are a guy that it likes to move and likes to do active things and you want to keep that as long as you can Then I definitely would not want you to eliminate certain movements like a squad or a deadlifter overhead press But I would I wouldn't I wouldn't know this because I've trained many people Like you that are have an athletic mindset and I know that how you do anything is how you do everything and The one thing I'd probably have to keep reminding you is mark Don't get competitive with yourself here Don't try and keep adding weight to the bar get if you're gonna get competitive with anything get competitive with how well You're moving the bar. Yeah practice the lifts. Don't train the lifts. I think that way I'm gonna go in the gym and I'm a practice these movements like you'd be practicing a throw or a swing To get really good at them and then I'll use one more analogy Again, just came a hammer this home Imagine if you were in a laboratory and you're the scientist studying you said, okay Here's what we're gonna do. You're not gonna walk at all for the next three years. We're not gonna allow you to walk at all However, we're gonna train all the muscles involved in walking in isolation So you're gonna do calf raises leg extensions leg, you know curls hip abduction hip adduction We're gonna work all the muscles in isolation, but for three years, you're not gonna walk at all How well do you think you'll walk at the end of that three years? Yeah, it's it's horrible and also I guess the if you follow this origin to insertion theory to you know The conclusions that have been drawn. You wouldn't lift you wouldn't do overhead lifts, which seems very dysfunctional. Yeah, again 100% there's a lot like look at real-world practice. Don't don't forget that pretty much all movement is a skill that can be learned and forgotten So it's not just as easy as looking at a muscle look at muscle contraction You know, there's there's more to the story here And I think a better approach would be to if if you need a break from compound listen really address any kind of imbalance or dysfunction You know go for a while doing, you know lateral training Yeah, focus on that a while It's really gonna highlight a lot of the imbalance and things that will just present itself to you You'll get better at that you you know spend some time there you bring it back to bilateral You know compound lifts and you're gonna notice a massive difference that being said too I don't and to your point Justin and Mark. There is there's nothing wrong with this either This isn't in in either or or ours or his it's like there's nothing wrong with you Running and an isolated a program like this for a small period of time I just I wouldn't I would discourage you of getting Getting rid of compound list because of one person's philosophy like I definitely don't disagree with hey for two or three months If you want to run all Isolation exercises for a while to see how you feel and then to come back to those movements and see wow Do they get better? Do they get worse? Do I like the way I feel? Do I like the way I look do I like what I see happening like I don't see anything wrong with that I would just discourage any of my clients from completely eliminating these movements in fear of like oh there The movement is what's hurting my back? Yeah cycling totally makes sense Well mark. Thanks for calling in and do you have access to? Maps prime pro because I feel like that would help you a lot with regardless what workout you're doing Yeah, I went on a spending spree over During your black Friday sale, so I picked up prime prime pro and your RGB bundle Excellent, so yeah, use prime and prime pro. I don't care what workout you're following you follow In the forum dog and if you're not in our private forum, that's good at them Let's let's let's get you in there so we can fall okay perfect. All right. Thanks mark. Awesome. Thanks guys. No problem Yeah, I Boy, does this it's hard not to get annoyed when I hear stuff like this kind of hear it in our voices a little bit Well, you know the problem, you know, it's the problem is I we take very much a lot of pride in what we do Right in helping people and we know that this message There's some truth in it But we also know how people hear it and then what they end up doing with it And it's gonna do a huge a service There's an old saying in fitness, which is use it or lose it right and it's a it's this old thing We sustain the gyms all I mean in fact when I was younger I had no idea what the hell it meant Well, literally what it means is you stop training something you stop doing something you lose the ability to do it Yeah, that's the bottom line I mean again like the example I gave with not walking for a few years Even if all the muscles stay strong and you can contract them independently You will lose a significant percentage of your ability to walk effectively and that is it happens faster the older we get so yeah the reason why I point it was so crazy. This was literally yesterday So great question to address right now because I was actually kind of blown away By how difficult the overhead press was for me last night. I was like, holy shit Like it's only been like a month Like I was like but a month that I didn't do that movement But because I don't do anything else that supports that movement to to be able to extend fully over my head like that My body starts to prune it way faster today than what it did when I was in my 20s and he's in his 50s So if you just decide I'm not gonna overhead press or I'm not gonna deadlift or I'm not gonna squat It does not take very long before your body says hey, we don't need to be No, you know why it's because as you get older efficiency becomes a much more important survival 100% no, and I and I see that I saw it last night You know, I constantly get reminded of that and so this was a great timing for this because I was like wow what that is crazy I mean, I was doing the bar. No, I could I did not go over the bar and I'm telling you I was sweating just to get the full extension stabilized come back down and blew my mind well, this is also I get irritate because it you see a lot of like muscle activation type of Testing and you can get some cool data from it, but that's not considering the overall That's not it's it's the same problem. I have a lot with with health where you see practitioners They know one specific area of the body one system so well, but they don't consider how everything is interconnected And and this is just another one of those examples from fitness where you need to consider how everything else is interconnected Especially function especially a guy like this because your goal does matter here if he came on and says like Adam I don't give it. I don't got kids. I don't give a shit about sports Yeah, I just want to look good. I just want to look good And every time I try and work on these squats or try and do these things I keep running into these issues You know, maybe that I look at that and go like look if you don't really give a shit about not being able to get down To the ground or not be able to do some of those movements and you literally just want to look good Well, that's I did that's an okay approach to do that You're still gonna lose the the incredibly profound effects of those exercise on changing how your body Fair fair I mean, I definitely think that's fair But I also think that there's there's many ways to skin a cat and if your desired outcome is just to look a certain way You can you can achieve that by not doing those movements But it's like I don't when you ask people deeper and they have to say things like like for example If you ask me like why don't you care if you you can't lift something over your head ever again? Yeah, you know, even though I might have said oh, I just want to look really good And I think about well, I don't want to actually not be able to do that. That's a problem No Hey, if you enjoyed that clip you can find the full episode here or you can find other clips over here and be sure to subscribe