 Why are American-born Chinese often so bad at speaking their parents language? What is preventing them from learning it? And David, what is the real core to this issue? Oh my gosh, what is your excuse? It is the biggest country in the world, the biggest Asian immigrant population in North America. What's your reasoning? I'm sorry dad, I'm a bad Chinese! Make sure you like, subscribe, turn on your notifications guys. We're gonna talk about this viral Reddit thread but there's a bunch of other threads on this topic Andrew. Long story short, there's a lot of Chinese people in the world, but a lot of second generation Chinese are generally not that good at speaking Cantonese, Mandarin, or whatever dialect that their ancestral heritage speaks. Yeah, definitely if you have Chinese friends who are Westernized or born in America, let's just keep it America or North America, you'll know some who are really not that good at language, if some who don't even know it at all and who don't even try. So I guess a lot of people are wondering this question, so we're gonna break it down, we got the comments section we're gonna go through, there's a lot of interesting insight from it, so stay tuned for that. But first before we get into it, Smala, this is actually a Chinese flavored chili oil, but with Italian sensibilities. You know it has real truffle, it has the numbing Sichuan peppercorn, also the Chinese name in Pinyin. From Sichuan Assessively guys, check it out, SmalaSauce.com, it ships anywhere in North America, America as well as Canada of course. Andrew let's just cut to the core of the issue. I read so many responses, people are saying it has to do with the generation, it has to do with internet access, it has to do with how many Chinese movies your parents watched, but what is the core of this issue? Because Andrew if you have this gigantic country, the biggest in the world, I know India just surpassed it in terms of population, but essentially the biggest country in the world, the oldest country in the world, and a gigantic diaspora in Canada as well as America, but a lot of the kids do not stay connected in a linguistic way like mother culture, what's the reason? I think that it is very time consuming to learn Chinese when you're not a native speaker, and so then that means that it requires a lot of effort, but then also it's just hard to put that effort towards learning Chinese while trying to assimilate into the Western world at the same time. But why is it hard to balance though? Is it because it's not viewed as very fun? Well I think because Chinese culture generally is not viewed as fun, it's not dopamine driven. It's probably the least of any culture on earth possibly, definitely even of the Asians. It's not exciting and I would say that the soft power as far as media, there's not a lot of currently trendy media that is reaching everybody. So we're comparing a contrast this real quick Andrew with Spanish. Not only is Spanish way easier to learn for English speakers, like maybe 10 times easier than Chinese is to learn, but it's actually arguably even a more dopamine filled culture than American culture. Dude, you can go to one of those like Dominican dance bars where you take a salsa class, learn some Spanish, use your Spanish there. Go to Columbia? I don't know. Yeah, you can go to whatever, like Latin America and it's very fun. It's fun. Right, right, right. So you're basically saying like it's hard to learn and then it's viewed at least in a Western sense as the opposite of fun. Those two factors right there, that ain't playing too well in the environment. Yeah, it discourages a lot of people from learning it. But anyway, guys, we got to get into the thread and the nuts and the bolts of this. Make sure you like, subscribe, turn on your notification. Andrew, I do think there are different patterns here. Do you agree that children of Taiwanese KMT tend to speak Mandarin really well? Like, you know what I mean? Kids, Taiwanese kids. Generally my Taiwanese friends, people who identify as Taiwanese generally can at least speak Mandarin at like, speak it okay. At least a conversational level, right? But guess what Andrew, who ran all the Chinese schools in America until the past 10 years, like 90% of them is Taiwanese. Yeah, a lot of Taiwanese families. They were the Chinese school teachers. Like, no, you stay in for recess because you have to do your poor, poor, poor, poor. Oh my goodness, they're so strict. Moving on to Cantonese who are good at Cantonese, Andrew. This is the two types that I've noticed that are good at Cantonese. Rich Hong Kong people who go back to Hong Kong every summer. Right, because you get a lot of exposure and you use it when you go back. And I've noticed that like, specifically, if you're from a successful like Chinatown family, you could still have grown up in like the Asian hood or whatever. But if your family was successful, busting a lot of moves in Chinatown, usually the kids are good at Cantonese because they got to do business and manage all these parts of the business as well. Yeah, I would also say like, I mean, I do think it's a class thing sometimes like upper middle class families generally will oftentimes teach their kids Chinese. Right? Because they stress the language schools, right? Yeah. Or also low income too because you operate in that community. If you are from a lower income Chinese enclave, then you probably got to speak at least your dialect well. You know what's really interesting, Andrew? It's like you said, it's almost like the rich people, the kids can speak Chinese good, and then the poor people too. Out of necessity, but for two different reasons. I would say this Canadian Chinese are usually on average, one to two standard deviations better than American Chinese. Agree or disagree? It seems like that also I think because Canada as a country, they're more like open to it. They're like less, I guess, essentially anti-Asia or anti-Chinese. In their culture, I'm not saying people are not mean and racist still and like I'm not saying everybody in America is bad, but I'm just saying culturally they move away from it. All right. I got this hot take and like do it the language schools. I don't know if they're going to like this one. Why? It does seem like the Asian-Americans that are more assimilated with other American subcultures, whether white, black, or whatever rock or punk, you know what I mean? There's so many American subcultures you can be into. It seems like the ones that are really fluid and into those, they speak Chinese at a lower level. Yeah. Like have you ever met an Asian skater? They're probably not speaking their Asian language very well. Yeah, I would agree with that. Or you know a lot of the Asian hoopers I know. Or just anybody who's into even music, usually they're not the most traditional thinking people. Right, right, right. It's kind of unfortunate because you know everybody would want to be like super Americanized and super good at their mother language at the same time. But I think when your mother language is something so ancient, you feel like it's going to like take you away from your success and rising up the ladder in this particular subculture lane. Exactly, exactly. I mean, listen, learning Chinese is time consuming. You have to find that time somewhere. Where are you learning it and depending on how good you are naturally at picking up languages because that can range and make it harder for you. So think about it. You're a person who's not great at picking up languages and so it's going to take you longer to pick up Chinese so you have to spend more time thinking about it but you want to do all these other things. Right, and I think that that's why all these new learning Chinese languages, channels on Instagram and TikTok, they're so important because they make it more plattable and more modernized, right? Because like we said guys, I think Japanese modern pop culture is here. I think Korean modern pop culture is very, very developed. Chinese modern culture for the youth is still developing right now. Like it's kind of unclear, right? So anyway guys, so whether or not second generation ABCs end up learning their mother tongue or ancestral language, I think there's a few factors, right? What is your natural born organic level, right? From your family and the systems? What was the actual structural need in your life? Like what did you have to know versus what do you want to know, right? Because like if you need to learn it, chances are you will learn it, right? How much did you want to learn in terms of just intense burning personal desire, right? That's going to carry you a long way. And then once you did learn it, how often did you use it to maintain it? Because often Andrew languages are like a muscle. They will atrophy over time without use, right? David, does it almost feel like because Chinese is such a difficult language to learn for a non-native speaker that you almost have to take some pride in it like you're going to be like a leader or representative of Chinese? You have to have a larger goal with it, I think. Because like you said, it's not something that's easy to learn. It's not necessarily something that's super fun to learn. There's a like kind of a low probability that you're going to like a lot of the pop culture from China realistically or even Taiwan. I mean like I'm not saying that none of it is good, but just like it ain't popping like K-pop and K-dreams, right? Or anime, right? Somebody just said there is no universal response and it varies household to household. But generally and historically speaking, language assimilation tends to be a priority for second generation Asian immigrants. So the native language tends to deteriorate quickly amongst those born in the U.S. Native language schools are popular for the more privileged. So is it just true Andrew? By the third fourth generation, why does it, if it's going to deteriorate over time anyway, why not just speed up the process and have the second gen lose it? That's funny. That is funny. Yeah, I mean, I guess, but then also like, I guess the whole goal is to hold on to aspects of your culture as long as possible. Right, right. But I guess there has to be an incentive and it's like, what's the purpose? Right, it has to have a larger reason, right? Somebody said I attempted to learn it once I got older, but I was, grew up being a kind of a bad Cantonese speaker. So when I tried to learn Mandarin, I could still pick it up quicker than somebody who didn't know anything. But ultimately I didn't really see the value in it and I dropped it. But I did take a class when I was an adult. This is a pretty common story, right? Like a lot of people are like, okay, I'm going to take a class later in life. How much do you think it is also that like a lot of Chinese, we grow up speaking different dialects at home. But nowadays, of course, every learning course is going to be centered around Mandarin because even though people prefer speaking their dialect language, Mandarin is the thing that bonds everybody together. Yeah, I think that it's really cool to take a Mandarin class. I think everybody should, that's Chinese, should take a Mandarin class. You mean regardless of their FJ or Kanto? Regardless, even if you learn it well, you should just take it because it kind of at least lets you know one, how good you are at it. Number two, it just kind of puts you on the same page as where I guess the Chinese community and world is heading. Right. Not to say forget about your other dialect, but I'm just saying, I think whether or not you plan on learning it fluently, you should still take a class just to be like, I did it and I have that in my brain. Right, and it is true that, I mean, regardless of like what language they want to speak, every waiter at a Chinese restaurant will speak Mandarin to some level, at least five out of 10, if not eight. Eight. Somebody says it really depends on what period they came to America. Everybody who came to America in the 1960s all the way up to 1990s, their kids primarily probably use English. However, if they came after that, nowadays there's so many ways to stay in touch with the motherland through the internet, TV shows, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, movies that it's like, it's easier now for the kids who are like 20 and under. Yeah, no, I think that a lot of Chinese immigrant parents that came in the 60s, 70s, 80s, they were just so happy to come to America that they were like, okay, like, you know, just learn English and become American. We're so happy we're here, you know. But like you said, there's so many ways and more media now that you can kind of keep in touch and maybe like flights are more plentiful and maybe depending on how your family came over, they have a little bit more money to go back and forth every year. If you go back and forth every summer or every even two years, your Chinese is, you're gonna have Chinese, you can, you're gonna be able to say stuff. For sure, for sure. Especially if you have large interconnected systems back home. Cousins. You have your family owns business out there or something like that. For sure. I mean, if you want to be a part of that business back in the motherland, you're gonna need to be able to speak the language or else people are gonna view you as a liability. But yeah, to empathize with the kids whose parents came over here just like to survive, they just wanted to simulate, make a better life. Making a better life, David, part of at a time making a better life in America was literally just getting good at English. That's still a lot of it. It still is really important to be good at English. It is still important to be good at English, even in the globe. Yeah, I highly recommend being at least eight out of ten at English. You still be good at English and I think that there was such a tunnel vision and focus on it that it deterred a lot of people from learning. Right, right, because it was a risk, right? If you learn another language, it's like, oh, shit, I don't want my kid to be like, maybe they end up six out of ten at English, six out of ten at Chinese, then they're only six at something that's useless. Right, right, right. Somebody said it even varies a lot within a household. Usually the older kids speak it better. The younger kids don't, but it actually also comes down to just desire. Like some kids, like the younger kid made desire to learn it later in life, study it, and then they will surpass even the older kids. Yeah, I think that happens a lot. I mean, our sister grew up speaking Cantonese when she was young. That was her first language. So technically that's in her blood, that's in her mind to be able to speak Kanto well. She's programmed as first language. But to be honest, she doesn't choose to speak it in public very often. Right. Right. While you went on to learn it more, you took more classes, and you're also very willing to speak it. Right, right, right. So of course you're going to get way more practice and your desire to speak it is just so much stronger. So, yeah. Somebody said, do you think that the dudes end up speaking Chinese better than the girls because the girls are more assimilated in Western society? This is a comment, guys. I think you cannot, I cannot answer this question because I think it just varies. Because I've seen families that do both. I've seen it where the boy is really good. I've seen it when the girl is not good. I just think whoever is the most Americanized, to be honest, is going to speak it the worst. Right. That makes complete sense to me. Somebody said, man, learning Chinese, you got to make sure you're around cool stuff or watch cool things because otherwise, learning Chinese, upping your Chinese level is just going to make you understand a bunch of ish that you still don't want to hear. That is hilarious. That's funny. I think it is true, like listen, if don't learn Chinese just to communicate with your grandma and your parents because you are going to regret it because you're going to be like, dang, I learned, put all this work in just to hear a bunch of traditional, like, almost generic, stereotypical Confucian filial piety advice. You know what I mean? You mean you learn Chinese just to hear your grandmother be like, what are you eating? You're getting too fat. And then it's like, you know, I kind of wish I didn't even have this conversation with you. But I definitely came across instances where I was like so glad that I could speak Mandarin Mandarin and Cantonese at least to a passable level because I met this Hong Kong billionaire recently and he used to own Tommy Hill figure and he wanted to speak Kanto at first. Even though he could fluently speak English, he wanted to build that connection first, you know, some of that homie vibe, right? And I wouldn't have been able to do that without that. And so we're going to be billionaires. Let's do it because you know Kanto. But I really think it's important that you watch, like for example, like Tony learning interviews in Cantonese or like John One and Mandarin or like, you know, your favorite stars that you relate to that are not your parents because otherwise, like you said, you might not like what you hear. Right, right, right. Um, somebody said it's much easier in Canada to stay Chinese and be Western at the same time versus America. Everybody feels a hardcore pressure to assimilate. Yo, going sorry to take it back to that last comment about like being able to speak it and make a connection. I feel like for me right now, I can speak enough to let Chinese people know I don't hate being Chinese. Oh, that's why I'm outside of the self-hate zone because I'm like, no, no, no, no, like I'll say it just to let them know. Like, yeah, yeah, but I'm an ABC man. Like, listen, if we need to talk, let's just do English, but I'm going to let you know I don't hate being Chinese. If somebody, if ABC does refuse to speak it out to even like their Uber driver, who's a complete fob who doesn't speak English, is it self-hate or are they just self-conscious? I mean, it's a little self-conscious and self-hate. No, it's probably both, to be honest, real talk. Like, you got it. You got to be able to say something. At least, you know, like, if you can't speak it well, at least be willing to speak it when you can. This guy said that I'm second generation myself, and when my kids were really young and we were looking at different Chinese schools, our parents just told us to teach our kids Spanish because it's more useful in the U.S. I was very shocked and disappointed at my parents. Yeah. You know, that's just like probably can't tell parents being hyper-pragmatic and practical, almost to the point where it's like you're almost like you don't want them to be that practical. Like I said, guys, there's limits of everything. Somebody said the less educated your parents are, the more mother tongue you'll actually know because they cannot speak English and you'll need to translate everything for them. That's kind of true, for sure. That's one of the situations that occurs. Exactly. I agree with that. Somebody said, you know, I can see it because in the Bay Area, there are ABCs that are raised by FOD parents and they struggle to express themselves in both languages deeply. Dang! How much is this the worst-case scenario coming to fruition? You know what I'm saying? You know how people are scared because they're like, oh my gosh, my kid is going to be like, they cannot express themselves in English as good as a white person. Then they never really even get good at Chinese even though they can order at the restaurant. What's the point? They're going to be bad at both. Yeah. No, that's interesting. Let's be honest, Andrew. I know some people that have felt victim to this. Yeah. I'm not saying it's all the way common. Yeah. But I do think you can study your way out of the way, guys. You got to be studious at some point, guys. It's not fair. It's just the immigrant situation. Long story short, Andrew, there was a bunch of discussions. Why do you think, ultimately, is it so hard to balance being Chinese with being American? So it's just like a lot of people, obviously, they just pick being American, right? Or give their best try at it. Yeah. I mean, listen, if you want to assimilate and be cool at school or adopt a certain subculture and be accepted in this way, it's very, very hard to also continually learn Chinese. Now, unless your parents only speak it to you in English and you're able to make that hard move from speaking high level Chinese at home to speaking just pure English, like no non-accented English at school, shout out to you. I know people who do that. I think that's very difficult and that may present its own identity problems. But overall, it comes down to your incentive, man. And this is the funny thing. And maybe this is me being very, very ABC about it and not being good at Chinese. But I almost feel like if you're like a non-Asian dude, if you're like a white dude that you like Chinese girls, you almost have so much more incentive to learn Mandarin because you know every interaction you have when you speak that language is going to be interesting or intriguing or surprising to people. Oh, Andrew, it's going to produce dopamine for the person who's surprised and dopamine for yourself because you're going to get all the props. Like 90% of people you speak Chinese to are going to be surprised and intrigued that you can speak it. So in a way, if you knew every interaction you were going to have was going to be interesting because you can speak a language, you will have so much more incentive to learn it. That is ultimate, that makes you, that changes your whole social life. For sure. So I'm saying if you know learning a language is going to change your life, it's like people coming to America and being like, oh, man, yeah, I have to be better at English because the more English I know, the more business people I can do, the more life I can change, the life I can meet. That makes complete sense. Right. So I guess it's just you have to find that incentive and sometimes and the immediate dopamine is not going to be an incentive because being Chinese, it's not a dopamine driven culture. It's probably like arguably one of the least dopamine driven cultures on earth. Yeah, if you're Chinese, speaking Chinese, you're not necessarily going to impress everybody all the time. Some people will be surprised. They'll still give you credit. But a lot of the time they'll just be like, yeah, that's expected. Yeah. Yeah. So you have to find the necessity and the need and the incentive to learn it. And everybody's incentive is a little bit different. Yeah. I would say, you know, date somebody that's young from China. I mean, not like young and you know what I mean? Like somebody that's modern. Your age, you know what I mean? That can be with the modern young culture. But I guess let's talk about David wrote before we go like a bigger picture incentive. I think I think being legendary, if you look at it, Bruce Lee extremely fluent in both cultures can bridge the gap between the East and the West. Ronnie Chang extremely fluent in both can bridge the gap between the East and West in a comedic sense right now. You're saying Ronnie Chang is a Bruce Lee of comedy. See who's not going to get his roles. See who speaks Mandarin and like a lot of his roles. Not a lot. But you know what I mean? Like it's a huge tool bag, a trick to have in your tool bag as an Asian-American actor. You know what I'm saying? But like obviously you can be like if you just make really Asian-American jokes like Ali Wong. I don't think Ali Wong could speak Chinese, but it's like she doesn't really need to because like her jokes are so about being Asian-American. She's not bridging the gap between like this massive continent. So do you have to feel like that of a regular person like if you're in finance or engineering or you're in accounting or you run a small business. Should you have to find that desire to represent something bigger and be this legendary cultural figure? Yeah. It's either going to be driven by that legacy desire or just some sort of like micro thing where it's like oh yeah, I like date a lot of fob girls so I have to learn Mandarin to feel more comfortable with them. You know what I'm saying? Like it's either got to be an intense micro dopamine-fueled incentive or this like larger macro like man, I just, I got to bridge the gap between these like disparate places on earth. Ancient, old, East, West. So I think that that's the main reason why and you know, like I said to the final point it's like it's so variable in a family because like not every kid in the family is going to feel the same missions in life. Yeah. But I do recommend it. I do everybody I know who's like getting known right now for bridging the gap between the East and the West even shout out to Corey Ying, the owner of Potluck Club. He does his interview sometimes in Cantonese. Right. And it shows that it's like man, he can bridge it for, I don't even think he speaks Mandarin, but like he could bridge it for his dialect, you know? Right, right, right. Anyway guys, let us know what you think in the comment section below. Like I said, there's 500, 600 posts about this on the internet. Let us know what you think are the reasons, pros, cons, which groups are really good at it, which groups are really bad, what's your incentive system for doing anything. Until next time we boys, we out. Peace.