 All right. Good morning and welcome to this week's edition of Encompass Live. I am your host, Krista Burns, here at the Nebraska Library Commission. Encompass Live is the commission's weekly online event. We're a webinar. We're a webcast. We're an online show. The terminology is up for debate for some people. But whatever we are, we are here live, online, every Wednesday morning at 10 a.m. central time. So call us what you want, but please join us. If you're unable to join us on Wednesday mornings, that's fine. We do record the show every week, so you can always go to our website and watch all of our previous recordings. And I will show you at the end of today's show where that is and how you can get to all of our previous shows. We post recording. If the presenters have any presentations or slides or documents, they are included. And any links to anything of interest are included, so you have one stop to get all of the everything related to a particular episode of Encompass Live. We do a mixture of things here. Presentations, interviews, mini training sessions, book review sessions, demos of things. Basically anything related to libraries, we are happy to have it on the show. We have Nebraska Library Commission staff that do some presentations. But I also do try and bring in people from elsewhere across the state, other librarians, and from outside of Nebraska. And that's what we have with us this morning. Robin Hastings is just from just south of us in Kansas. Hi, Robin. Hello. Hello. She is the director of technology services at Northeast Kansas Library System, so just south of us. And there's all sorts of things here. It's kind of a nice broad topic there, director of technology. Yeah, we do a little bit of everything. Yeah. And earlier this year, I actually, well, she wrote a, the reason I got her on the show that for this particular topic, link data and libraries, I read an article that she wrote in Computers and Libraries magazine last fall about link data and libraries. And it was very interesting. And I thought it was a really great overview of everything on a topic. And I thought it'd be great to have her come on and expound a little bit more with it on our show. So all right. So I'll just hand it over to you, Robin, then to take it away and tell us all about everything we need to know about link data or certain focus of what we need to know for link data. This is definitely an overview. I know there's a lot of different ways you can come on it and a lot of things related to it. So yeah, we only have an hour. That's right. That's right. I will attempt to respect your all's time. So that being said, feel free to chime in with questions anytime. I can't actually see them, but Christa will stop me and let me know when you guys have questions. So please feel free to ask if I am going too fast or too slow. Let me know. And do make note of where that raised hand thing is. I'll probably be asking a few questions. And hopefully, let's see. Yeah, I can see where you're raising your hands and all that good stuff. Yeah, you should be able to see the list of attendees. And when they do that, it's just this whole the questions part is a separate section that I'll keep an eye on for you. All right, excellent. So all that housekeeping out of the way, we can. Yeah, OK, sorry. It didn't go on the first click. Scary. We can start with today's topics. What we're going to talk about is just a really brief what is linked data. How it's being used right now, what kinds of places you'll be finding it. We'll go over a big frame and open library in the states. We'll also go over some international uses of linked data. I have a great slide with a big pumpkin pie on it. And that's when we're going to talk about pie in the sky ideas for linked data. And then some actual uses that are actually in use right now. We'll talk about how it can be used to extend library data's reach. And then we'll talk a little bit about reducing our work, reusing our work, and recycling using the linked data stuff. I am going to focus a lot on the web part, as opposed to the library data part. There was a great Encompass Live episode month to month and a half ago called Life After Mark, Catalog and Tools of the Future. Whoops, forgot to close my parentheses there. I should have thought of the mark clearly. There's a link there. I listened to it. It was very much talking about RDA and linked data in libraries from a cataloging perspective. I'm going to come at it from more of a web perspective, although I will certainly still going to talk libraries, most definitely. If you're interested in getting copies of the slide, the presentation is there at the slideshare.net website. You can download it and print it, reuse it, however you would like. So we'll start off with that overview, what is linked data. And basically, it is data that is on the web that is in a format that computers can understand. That is different, most definitely, from in a format that computers can read. Those of you who started off with an HTML 15, 20 years ago, I just realized how old I am, you know that HTML started out as something that computers could read. It was code that browsers could use to display, but they didn't understand. They were just dumbly displaying. When we switched over from HTML to XHTML, things became a little bit more understandable by the computer. And so linked data is data that is understandable by computers. It should be human readable as well, but mostly it's specially coded so that computers can read it and understand it. And I did want to, in this slide as well, talk a little bit about the difference between linked data and linked open data. Link data is in data that is coded so that a computer can understand it. It's in a standard format. Linked open data is the same thing, only it's free to use. And I'm going to be talking at the very end of the presentation about where to find that kind of stuff, the open data. But there is a difference between in licensing, if nothing else, between linked data and linked open data and something we tried. Robert? Hi. OK, I'm getting a couple of comments from people saying that they can't see your screen. But I can. Can anyone tell me, is anyone seeing a slide that has a picture of a computer and it says what is linked data? Someone comment and say what they're seeing? Some people are. OK, and some people aren't. All right, all right. Looks like the audience are. All right, if you're having a black screen or having issues with it then, because I've gotten a couple of people that said it, but it looks like most people are on top of things, great. If you're having a black screen, I'd say try and minimize and reopen just the screen that's the actual slide, or potentially log out and back in again to try and set that. But it looks like generally speaking, people are seeing it. So if you are having issues, it's not something that, apparently, we can change anything from our side to fix it, because it is coming through for most people. All right, thank you. You can go to SlideShare. My username on SlideShare is webgoddess, and it's the last presentation I uploaded. So it should be right up there. That's true, yeah. If you do stuff. I really can't see it. Showing the slides, you could follow along over there that way, yeah. All right, go ahead, Robin. Sorry about that. That's fine, that's fine. OK, so I think I've covered the basics of linked data. We'll talk about these concepts as we go on as well. Back in 2006, Tim Berners-Lee, the guy who kind of created the World Wide Web, the HTML, and hypertext, lots of people created it, but he gets a lot of the credit. He actually started to identify linked data and how it would work on the web. Again, in that SlideShare thing, I noticed my first presentation that I did on what we were calling Web 3.0 back then was in 2008. So this is something that's been around for a while in the web world and is just now starting to get really usable in the library world. So in 2006, Tim Berners-Lee said the essential principles of linked data is that it uses URIs. Those are related to URLs. They're universal resource identifiers, as opposed to locators. And those URIs are names for objects. So instead of the locator being a name for a file on the web, the URI is a name for an object that has its own location on the web. We should use HTTP URIs so people can look up those names using basic web protocols. We should provide information at the URI that identify our location in a standard form, RDF, JSON, which is JavaScript object notation, which is a form of JavaScript, turtle, which is a whole new language, at least to me, but is used a lot with linked data and that kind of thing. And there are lots of other standard forms out there. But some sort of standard form that can be interoperable, people can talk with one another using that standard form, that's what the information should be in. And then you should also include links to other URI objects so that other objects can be discovered via links. And that's kind of the real essence of linked data, is that you've got a object and it links to other objects in standard ways. And again, we'll talk more about that. We're going to talk a little bit, it's big brain. We're going to talk a little bit about semantics and linked data, that session that I did in 2008 for the National Association of Government Webmasters was really focused on the semantics of the linked data thing. And one thing you really have to remember is that computers are dumb. We as humans understand nonstandard English or Turkish or Russian or whatever language you happen to speak, we will understand it even if it's not perfectly grammatical. Computers understand that nothing that is not perfectly grammatical in whatever language you're writing in. So to be semantically understood by a computer, it has to be perfectly encoded. And that is something that you'll run into. And it's something that, again, if you kind of grew up on the web like I did, HTML used to be really, really forgiving. You could do all kinds of crazy things and it would still display. When we switched to XHTML, which became a language that computers could understand a little bit better, it became a lot less forgiving because the more computers can understand the less leeway you as an author have in writing your code. So that was something I definitely wanted to bring up. And this is just kind of something to keep in mind while you're working with linked data. So we talk a lot about the different kinds of linked data. And I wanted to talk about RDA versus RDF really quickly. RDA is resource description and access. And that is an up and coming content description format for libraries. It's not really a replacement for the A, R, C, or mark, but it's going to replace them if it continues on the way it's going. Basically, just because the encoding structure of mark can't handle all of the RDA elements. And so we're going to be moving on to other things. And I'll definitely be talking about those, too. So RDA is resource description access. RDF is the resource description framework. And here I have some comparison contrasting, mostly comparison, because they're very similar. RDA was created by library land people. It was actually created by library folks. RDF was created by the, oops, I have a standing desk. And every 40 minutes, it says, hey, you need to stand up for 20 minutes. I'm sorry about that. Anyway, I turned off all of my other pop-ups, yeah. So just so people can picture standing or sitting right now. I'm sitting right now, so I'm going to stand up because I sit too long and my back starts to hurt. Yeah, probably. Go for it. All right. So the resource description framework was created by the folks who write the standards for the World Wide Web, W3C, and those kind of folks. RDA describes and provides access points for bibliographic information, while RDA provides those same access points for semantically valid information on the web. RDA, and I put a means of encoding metadata, but it's really not an encoding standard. It's a way of describing metadata, I suppose would probably be a better way to put that, for library resources, whereas RDA means of encoding metadata for web-based resources. And again, RDA isn't really an encoding thing. Neither of them are, but they describe. RDA is structured on Ferber. For those of you who are familiar with the functional requirements for bibliographic records, I came up. Pretty sure that's what that stands for. It is a new way to look at our bibliographic records in libraries, and it is the basis of RDA. Whereas RDA is structured on a semantic language, usually it's the working ontology language, which is, I tell you, I thought I turned off all my notifications. It is working ontology language is a semantic language that is a vocabulary, essentially, that RDA can use. RDA can be expressed in multiple languages, and those are the encoding standards, like Mark 21, which is the current use, Bib Frame, which I'll talk about a little bit in a few minutes, et cetera. There may be others that come along, as RDA can also be expressed in multiple languages, such as XML and Turtle. Those languages are the actual encoding of the data, whereas the RDA and RDA are really more content descriptors and not specific formats there. So this RDA is what I'm going to be talking about for most of the rest of the session. Like I said, if you want to learn more about RDA and cataloging and all that, I really encourage you to go back to the second slide, where I gave you a link to an excellent presentation right here in EnCampus Live on just that. So RDF isn't expressed in triples. You'll hear that referred to quite frequently, and it's basically a subject, a predicate, and an object. The subject and object are nouns. The predicate is kind of a verb or a relationship. So this particular triple structure, there's actually a couple of, I probably should have copied the author twice. The author is named Robin Hastings, is a triple structure. The author is a director of technology services, is also a triple structure. You can see down at the bottom of the slide that those relationships are encoded in turtle format here using the RDF information using Dublin Core, the DC vocabulary, and then example stuff, because a lot of this is very new. So that's basically when you hear about RDF triples and semantic triples, that's kind of what you're thinking about, what you're going to hear. And with that triple structure, you're encoding things as opposed to strings of data, strings of text that computers don't understand, they understand objects. And so that helps to encode that. OK, so Mark, this is a basic Mark record in using the AARC to encoding. It is kind of locked up, no search engine at this time can reach into our catalogs and understand this data. It keeps our books, our records, our materials out of search engines, because our data is locked up in Mark right now. The next slide, the next several slides I'm going to show you is this data in BibFrame. And I'm not going to go into the details of BibFrame, it's really, really technical and crazy. But I do want to talk a little bit about how you can take all of that information that was in that one slide that I showed you before. And you can see how much more extensive the BibFrame record is. There are a couple of reasons for that. One is the nature of BibFrame. It just, there's a lot more white space. And that's because storage, when Mark was created, computer storage was expensive. Today, if you catch a decent sale at Best Buy, you can pick up a terabyte hard drive for $60. That was obviously not the case when Mark was created. And so it's very compact. And there's lots of abbreviations and lots of ways of compacting all that information in their BibFrame. We just don't have those same issues now. Storage is cheap, cheap, cheap. And we have plenty of room to add lots of different information. So basically, the difference between Mark and the BibFrame, I just wanted to show you how much space, how much bigger a record could be in BibFrame and how much more information then that we can include on that same record. This is the output. The first BibFrame, the three slides before, were output by Python, the computer language. It's a Python little tool that they use. This is output from Library of Congress's xQuery code into RDF. So the other thing I wanted to point out in this expanded section here on the left is BibFrame is a vocabulary. So it's got the prefix. If you'll notice all these BF colon, those are BibFrame vocabularies. And so that's just kind of a quick and dirty introduction. BibFrame vocabulary is comprised of the RDF properties, classes, and relationships between them. So all that information in the previous slides basically is to connect all this information together. And then each of these little circles is its own object connected to subject, creator, publisher, published at, the format. All those are connections. Those are the predicates. And then each of the circles is a noun. And that's how they're connected. So you can kind of see how the work has a subject of whatever. It has a creator of whomever. You can see how those triples are expressed here in this diagram. And it also kind of gives you a little bit of firber here, because you're talking about work level. And then the instance is the manifestation level of firber. So you've got a little bit of firber going on as well. So that's what is coming. I will tell you, Bib still in, it is very, very fluid. It's still being developed. Things change really, really quickly, because it has not completely worked out. So this is the end of my talking about BibFrame and all that. I do want to tell you, though, that if you have a chance to take a look at it, it's a really cool kind of way of thinking about our materials in libraries. It allows for cooperative cataloging in ways that are just not possible now, and far more granularly. So we can work together a whole lot easier on our cataloging stuff. And then it also allows for automatic updates. If, say, the creator dies and the new death date needs to be added to a record, now thousands of librarians get into their systems and update those records individually. If it's linking to a creator of an object, all that, all you have to do is update that URI. And updates automatically kind of flow out through to all the people who are linking to it. So those are just some of the benefits of where we're heading with linked data in libraries. Some examples of linked data that are already in place. One is the open library. And its goal is one page per book for every book published ever. That's the open library's goal. Not sure how close they are to reaching that, but they do have a lot of books available. And one thing I'd like to point out, down here at the very bottom, and you may not be able to see it because of my taskbar that won't go away. Oh, hey, wait a minute. There, it just went away. And I've moved. OK, so down here at the very bottom of the slide, kind of in the bottom right there, you can download the catalog record in either RDF or JSON web format. And again, that JSON is a JavaScript object notation. And which means it is something that you can then add to a web page and manipulate with JavaScript very easily. So we'll talk a little bit about ideas for that. But I just kind of wanted to show you what the open library is already using linked data in RDF format to put together a library of books as best they can. So this here, this huge file. I don't know how well you can see it on your screens. Wow. This is a lot of data. This is as of August 2014. So it's already almost a couple of years old. But this is kind of the linked data set environment that is available right now. So there's a lot of linked data out there right now that we can make use of. I will tell you it is not particularly easy. I keep going back to HTML. But this really, it feels familiar to me because I remember when HTML, I would write my HTML code in something approaching Notepad. I mean, very basic. I had to know the tags. I had to write the code. And then they started creating HTML editors. And pretty soon there's Dreamweaver level editors where what you see is what you get. You're not actually interacting. You're not writing code. You're interacting with the WisaWig editor. And then finally, you've got WordPress, where you just write the content. You don't ever have to worry about the HTML. You never write a tag. It's all done for you. Right now, we're still in the Notepad area, the Notepad era, I suppose, of linked data. It's hard. It's hard to write. It has to be done pretty. I mean, they're starting to get editors out there in the Library of Congress has some on their site. But they're still not great. So a lot of this has to be written by hand. And so you do have all this data out there that is being produced, but not a whole lot of real uses yet. But that, again, I have a feeling will come. So anyway, this is just kind of an overview of your linked data availability. What's out there right now? So I told you I'd have a big pie for you, didn't I? This is where I'm going to talk a little bit about kind of pie in the sky uses of linked data. There are a few sort of proof of concept things. And actually, I'm going to talk to you a little bit about some of those. Facebook does not listen to me. I'm going to talk to you about those a little bit. And we'll actually go take a look at some of them, I think, here in a minute. But this is kind of some of the stuff that you can do. I haven't actually seen done yet. It's possible, but I've not seen it. One of the things I'm thinking of is, say today is Steve Jobs' birthday, 1955. Steve Jobs has an entry in the virtual authority file, VIAF. That's one of those nodes in that web I showed you last slide, which gives his birthday, among lots of other information about the man. Your web page or application knows it's his birthday. So it pulls a picture from the virtual authority file and then starts searching in Wikipedia for media he might be connected to. So there are biographies, a book, and a movie listed there, a couple of movies, I think, now. So it pulls information about those and uses the info stored in Amazon to give rich and detailed descriptions of that media. This is where we get into link data versus linked open data. Right at the moment, I don't think Amazon's data is open. But hopefully, pie in the sky, right? It also knows from Wikipedia that he founded the Apple company. So it goes to the Yahoo Finance page and pulls stock information for Apple and provides that as well. Again, not open yet, but could be. If you happen to have a library lever coding this stuff, it could also check WorldCat for links to any media referencing Steve Jobs or Apple in a library near you and give you links into the catalog for that information. You can then see the information about the media, see the availability in your local catalog, and place a hold right there from the web or page or application that you're in. All you have to do is supply your library card number and pen or however you log into your library account. Again, that's where we get into the pie in the sky, right? At the moment, none of our libraries are set up to do that. But if we start all using BIPFrame tomorrow, hey. One of the things actually that I had talked about, again, in the 2008 presentation that I thought was really cool, is searching. How linked data and semantic information on the web is going to affect searching. And I think that's going to be, we're already starting to see that a little bit. But I think that's going to be exciting, because not only can we search for stuff that we can search for now, but we can also search inside of data stores. All those linked data stores are available to search into. And if libraries are part of that linked data store, we're all of a sudden no longer hidden. We're not the dark web anymore. We come out in the light and become part of the regular web, the part that's accessible via Google. So the other thing that I think is interesting about this is in our ILSs itself. And this is my third pie-in-the-sky thing. With a ILS that understands linked data, you can pull in information from multiple sources. You can pull in, we've got a local history project here in Kansas that uses Dublin Core in OMECA, which is a platform sort of like WordPress, but for images. And it natively supports Dublin Core. So if I had a book about Kansas, I could go and query that OMECA instance and pull the information into my catalog very easily. And so all of a sudden, our catalogs are far richer with data than they are right now. So that's kind of a pie-in-the-sky look at ILSs. And it's also limited by my imagination. One of the things that I think is really, really exciting about linked data and us making our data available as linked triples is the possibility that people who are not connected with libraries right now will have ideas for how to use our data in ways we just have never considered. And so that's kind of what I'm looking forward to the most, is trying to figure out how people are going to use all this rich data that we have in our right now that's locked up in our catalogs. If we make that available, that's been 20 minutes, so it's time to sit down now. Sorry. If we make that available, we will be opening up a world of data to people who can do anything they want with it, and that will be so exciting, in my opinion. So I said search already uses linked data a little bit, and it does. Right now, a lot of times, what we consider linked data is also known as a knowledge graph, and Google, Facebook is a lot of different social networking type of sites, use linked data to create knowledge graphs. What we've got here on the screen is a Google result from my local public library. So you can see that the description of the library is pulled from Wikipedia. Almost all of Wikipedia's data is linked in a linked format in a way that computers can understand. So that's where you're starting to see these cards of information in your Google searches is because it's finding that data that it understands and pulling it together. The thing that I think is kind of cool is the hours. The day that I took this picture, it was open from 9 to 7. And this card knows that because on the Lawrence Public Library, they have coded that information, their hours information, using schema.org tags. That's what Google understands. And that is just one of the many linked data standards that are out there. I know that they use WordPress as their foundation for their website. And I also know that WordPress has a schema.org plugin. I don't know if they use that or if that was hand coded in themselves. But it is possible for anybody who uses WordPress to download the schema.org plugin and start encoding their data in ways that Google understands. So now instead of having to click through to the library to find out when it's open today, which is a fairly common use of our library websites, let's be honest, it's just right there, which makes it easier for patrons to use our data, use our information, and makes a nice display for Google as well. So that's all there. Some other options that I think are pretty exciting. This right here is linked jazz. And this is kind of a proof of concept, kind of like what I talked about earlier, where you've got all these jazz players linked in different ways. And let me, OK, whoa, whoa, there's Duke Ellington. Let me click on him. And I know this is going to be really kind of tiny on your screen. But Duke Ellington's information there is from Wikipedia. Like I said, a lot of the stuff you're going to see now is from Wikipedia. And it talks about when he was born, when he died, he was an American composer, pianist, and big band leader. He wrote over 1,000 compositions. And he is connected in some way to everybody else that you see on this screen. So this is kind of a, this is the dynamic version, which moves around as you click on things. They have similar free and fixed versions as well. But this is all kind of created on the fly using linked data. So that was just kind of something I wanted to show you guys as well as. That is really slick, Rob. And yeah, I brought it up on my screen here. And I've marked it just so you, everyone knows, for everyone to be able to get to later. OK, and it's also linked in the slide share notes. So yeah, that's. Seeing the animated, how it's animated like that, really gets the picture of what you're talking about. It really, really visually. You can see, oh, it goes this way and that way. And yes, I think so. Yeah, the picture on the slide is very static. But boy, you pull up linked to jazz.org. And all of a sudden, you've got. Oh, yeah, it's alive. Exactly, exactly. So I definitely wanted to show you guys that is how it is being used right now today. Other ways it's being used today is data.gov. And I don't know if you guys are familiar with the vast amounts of information that our government is producing every day in linked formats. There are some a few very, very limited examples here on this slide. They have local severe weather warnings in systems in Missouri, which is where I'm originally from. Product recall data from the federal government. And then what I thought was interesting was they have higher ed data sets with information on every institution of higher ed that participates in the federal student financial aid programs, which is a lot of them. But that's kind of dry. One thing that you can do is search for applications. There are tools that make use of this data, including citydata.com. And this I typed in Lawrence, which is my current hometown. And it gives me the current weather forecast. That's actually from yesterday, because I do fuss with my slides up until the very last minute. This is information that I got from citydata.com yesterday. And you can see that you can look at neighborhoods. You can look at the schools. You can look at the assessment values. You can look at sex offenders. You can see all kinds of information about how the population is split up. A few more females in town were fairly young. We're younger than the Kansas median. So that's kind of information that you might find interesting. Another source of information, and honestly, I didn't find a whole lot. There are like nine pages of tools on that data.gov site. I found almost nothing about public libraries. The only things I found were really searches for public libraries. And here, this is not very pretty, and it's also very small. I can make it bigger. This is a basic search for a public library that uses the linked data that the data.gov folks make available. And this uses Public Library Survey 2012 and Archives Library Information Center data kind of mashed together and put together. So there's a lot of information and a lot of cool websites and cool applications being built on top of all this data. But not a lot of library stuff, which I have noticed. So we are going to go from basic linked data, and not library related necessarily, in the US to what's going on outside the US. And this is just a couple of options here that I have mentioned or I've seen mentioned. In England, the British National Bibliography, and that's the URL for it there, they're working on creating a repository of linked data objects based on national library holdings. What that means is for every piece of material that is in their national library, they are creating a triple, a set of triples, actually, to describe that piece of material. And you can kind of see how they're doing at that URL. Again, I don't think they're very done. I mean, I don't know how far along they are, but it's a huge project. But it's something that they're giving a shot to. And Germany has a culture graph. It's a linked open data service that, again, is trying to create an individual information object for each kind of material held by libraries in Germany. And again, there's that link there on the slide to kind of send you, if you want to take a look at what they're doing, that's actually the English language. You'll notice there at the second, right behind the domain, there's that EN. It's the English language version. If you speak German, you might get more information out of the home page. But if you don't, if you're like me and only speak English, that's where you would go to find out more information to kind of poke around at it and see what they're doing. These are all things that there's another Switzerland Sweden, I think Switzerland has a national project. And here in the US, the Library of Congress is working with a couple of different collaborators on trying to make the framework here in the US, which will require that our data be linked. So it's not just national libraries elsewhere. Our national library is also working on this. So I talked about, at the very end, reduce your use and recycle. We're going to, if we can continue on this path and go with link data, we can reduce the amount of work going into reinventing the record at each library. Right now, there's a lot of copy cataloging going on that changes the record individually. That may not have to happen so much. We may be able to just make very small changes for our individual library and make use of this link data in collaborative categorization. Yeah. That's the word I was looking for there. OK, so we can reuse the library's data in new ways. And not only we can, but like I said earlier, this opens up other people who may not have the same blinders sometimes that we do in library land. They can take our data and make use of it in ways that we may not even be able to consider. So that's very exciting. And then recycling. Right now, we share mark records. Like I said, there's a lot of copy cataloging with records from WorldCat and various other places. I think that will continue even further with more sharing. When we have common URIs that all libraries can use, we can just point to a central data source that makes, again, collaborative cataloging useful and easy. And hopefully cheaper. So all right, well, I have nine minutes left, I guess, for questions. If you guys have anything, anything has come up? Not a problem. No, we've got plenty of time, yeah. Yes, if anybody does have any questions or comments or your own thoughts and ideas on linked data and how we are using it or should be using it or could use it, go ahead and type into your question section of your Go to Webinar interface. I am monitoring that here. Nothing has come in while you were talking. Like I would have jumped in. But that's OK. Well, and I forgot to ask, while I was talking about the uses of linked data and libraries, RDA, and BIPFrame and all that, I don't think there are many people using BIPFrame right now. But a lot of people are using RDA. And I was going to ask if your library is using RDA, if you wanted to raise your hand so we could see. Yeah, use the raise hand options over there on the left-hand side of your Go to Webinar interface little hand in a circle. If you are using RDA, let Robin know. A few are coming up. Like I said, the RDA, as it goes right now, is not, it's usable in Mark, but all of the cool link data information and the ability to get data out of our siloed catalogs and all that is just not really possible with Mark 21 encoding as it stands now. We do actually have a question related to that. When do you estimate library catalog data will show up in web searches? When we ditch Mark, when that will happen, I don't know. I've been in libraries for 17 years and I've been talking about getting rid of Mark since the day I started. So I don't know when that's going to happen. I think if BIPFrame is a viable alternative and is started to use at the Library of Congress level and then as it starts to trickle down, but it's going to be a huge change. I mean, all of our vendors and all of our various cataloging tools are going to have to change. And so I understand why Mark isn't just tossed over and we go on to the next thing. I mean, I really do. But honestly, the best answer I can give you is when we get rid of Mark and we go on to another format, be that BIPFrame or whatever that is link data friendly. Yeah, it's going to take so many different sides that have to come together for that. Yeah. And even when it does become potentially the more prevalent way, they're still going to be the ones that aren't. Because just like we have now, we have libraries at every level and every version of things. It's just the nature of the beast. So it could never be 100%, but someday. Someone does comment that said RDA has nothing to do really with linked data. It's strictly a content standard. Right, right. But it is how we're going to get linked data basically into like BIPFrame. BIPFrame is what is actually going to be the encoding for the linked data. RDA, it gives us some options to make linked data easier. But no, it's not a linked data. Kind of like a stepping stone. I don't know. Yeah, a foundation, something to build on. Yeah, it's definitely a content standard. It's not encoding. It's above the level of encoding for linked data. It's above that. But it is, I mean, it's ARC2 is not going to get us into linked data. That's definitely not yes, right? So yeah, it is linked in. It's lumped in with the linked data stuff because it can be useful while with the encoding. But yeah, it's not specifically a linked data standard. There's a lot of different things you have to think about that are going to go into this. And some maybe even want more peripheral than others. But it's a big picture kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. All right, anybody have any other questions? Anything else you want to know? As Robin said at the beginning, this was kind of an overview, not necessarily a step-by-step instructional guide. Just get your thinking about it and something to maybe bring back to your libraries and say, maybe we should work on something. That's what I'm getting from this. Like you said, when you were talking about, there's not a lot out there about libraries. That made me think that's something we need to work on then. That's something we need to think about. Because other groups, jazz artists, somebody's decided, I'm interested in jazz. I'm going to put this thing together and make it happen. We need to do something with, yeah. Sure. And I forget who said it, honestly. But I have run across the quote, there's a library-shaped hole in the internet. We should be providing information, and we're not. And to do that, we're going to have to go to big frame or, in some way, shape or form, make our data linked and out there. And yep, it's up to us, because nobody's going to do it for us. That's right. All right. Well, it doesn't look like any other urgent questions have come in while we've been chatting here, and that's fine. I've got, like I said, I should add the link to your article when I get around to putting it. There was an article that I found that had to do with this. I'll put in the delicious links as well. So if anybody has anything urgent you want to type in right now before we move on. No? All right. All right. Thank you so much, Robin, for this update. We had done things like you said, PreviewCent RDA, and we had done the linked data one a few years ago. But it has been a while. It's always good to keep this in mind and reminding people this is something we need to get out there, get into the internet. It's just something to think about when we're making our decisions in our libraries. Yeah, keep it in mind as you're going through that. All right. Then I think that will wrap it up for your presentation. Thank you so much. Thank you, everyone, for attending. I'm going to pull back presenter control to my screen. All right. And as I said, I was, I still got to put some more in here. Here's our delicious account where I was collecting some of the links as Robin was going through a presentation. I will go back through the slides, just a double check. And I know I didn't catch everything here. When the show is recorded, when I have the recording done and processed, it will be loaded here onto our website. If you just Google Encompass Live, you come up with us. Luckily, so far, nobody else has called anything this. So we are the first couple of results to get to our website. But our archives are right here underneath. Our upcoming sessions is linked to our archive sessions. This is all of our previous ones. And just like we have our last week's show here, we will have the recording on our YouTube channel and the presentation linked to Robin's slides on her slideshare and all my delicious links that I've been collecting for it will all be there. I will let you all know when it's ready and available. Potentially later today, if things go smoothly. Other than that, I hope you join us next week when our topic is new adult fiction. What is this new adult fiction? New category of literature or stepped up YA novels. So this is just a little something different that's come out, a different type of genre of literature potentially. And Ann Metsky, who was used to be, was formerly at one of our libraries here in Nebraska. Wilson Public Library Coase is going to come and talk to us about this new genre and give a little more insight onto what exactly we're talking about with this new type of literature that's coming up. So I hope you join us for that next weekend. Any of our other topics that we have here coming up, go ahead and register. Also, we are on Facebook. So if you are a big Facebook user, do pop over there. And like our page, I post reminders. Here's one for today. That was for last week, sorry. Reminders, when our show is coming on, let you know when our recordings are available. Here's one, the previous recording one. So if you are big on Facebook, please do pop over there and like us there. So there we go. Actually, we did have a question that came in. And I think I will go back and go to it just because it came in and it sounded, it's a good one here that someone just let it be in the last minute. Sorry about that. Someone wants to know, so going back to our topic, what does putting book information on the web mean? If someone searches for Washington, will all the books with Washington as a subject come up? It depends on how we do it. I'm really actually thinking that search engines will be smart enough to pull up kind of like World of Cat the books about Washington in your library. And so it would be another way of getting into your local library's catalog. And that would be done by figuring out your IP address and where it's located and kind of guessing at first. But I think that would be, I don't think you'd get every book ever written necessarily. I think you would get every book, hopefully, in your local library. And yeah, I don't know. Just like now, when you do certain things online, when I search for things, it will know where I am geographically. It knows I'm sitting in Lincoln, Nebraska. And it focuses, even if I just put in a general search, I don't specifically type that in. It knows that's where I am and brings me things sometimes that are specific to my location. And I have our book information out there in the same way. Like right now, when you look for a subject, you will find books on Amazon, things like that, because they are out there open. It will not come up right away with here's your local library down the street. You can go and get this for free and check it out and head over there this afternoon. Yeah, and that's what we're hoping to jump to. Just to so people, when they're looking for that, have an option to purchasing it on Amazon. Right, because right now, that's really the only option, yeah. If you're just doing a basic Google search and you're not thinking of your local library, that's what you're presented with. Now, Worldcat is using some link data in their catalog now, and I'm starting to see more Worldcat links, but not nearly enough. And I remember when they first started doing that, I used to see it all the time. And then I don't know what changed where, but then I started seeing it less, but it's kind of coming back more that when you do a search, it will come up, it will mix in with all of your regular old attributes as well, yeah. And that helps you jump to it. Same kind of thing, if you can get into Worldcat and it also knows where you are or you put in your code, then it will focus down into the libraries geographically closest to you. Right, and I'm guessing that's how Google or whatever comes behind Google will try and do it, is make it geographically reasonable. Ideally, that's good. All right, all right, thanks. I just want to get that one question because I thought it was good to discuss that. All right, so then, thank you very much everyone for attending, thank you very much Robin for being here with us today. Thanks for Christopher inviting me. Yeah, no problem. That will wrap it up for today's show, so I hope you'll join us next, we'll see you next week on Encompass Live. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.