 Heavily processed foods has been connected to poor health and obesity. If that wasn't enough to get you to stop eating them, we'll listen to this. We now have a meta analysis showing that also leads to mental health outcomes that aren't so great. In other words, eating heavily processed foods can also make you feel depressed and anxious. Looks like these foods don't have a ton of value besides the fact that they just taste really good and they're convenient. So you probably want to avoid them. How do they prove that? Is that people reporting back that they feel depressed? How are you measuring that? I think that's what they're doing. I think they're looking at, well, you know, let me pull up the study for you. I mean, it just seems so... It is a meta analysis, so that makes it... Cross studies, right? Of course, in order to come up with this conclusion. Yes, and see if I can... I know that's the most accurate, but I mean, it just sounds so arbitrary, right? Like, you have this people that eat processed foods and they eat in a sneaker bar and you just think... Well, so there's nothing to do with my wife and I got in a fight last night. It was more to do with the Cheerios that I had. Well, here's what the conclusion of this meta analysis said. It says, greater exposure to ultra-processed food was associated with the higher risk of adverse health outcomes, especially cardiometabolic, common mental disorder, and mortality outcomes. These findings provide a rationale to develop the evaluation of effectiveness of using population-based and public health measures to target and reduce dietary exposure to ultra-processed foods for improved human health. So through these meta-analysis, they were able to deduce with, I mean, more certainty than we have, although I would argue that this is probably the case, that it's not... It's cause and effect, not the other way around. In other words, one of the arguments may be, well, wouldn't people who are depressed and anxious reach for these foods more often? Right. How do you parse that out? Well, that's what they looked at with the meta-analysis. And so they say, okay, it's probably... Yes, if you're more depressed and anxious, you're more likely to reach for these foods, but these foods also tend to cause those effects on people. Now, that makes sense to me, because we know conclusively that ultra-processed foods make people overeat. Overeating, you know, obviously you start to gain body fat, you get blood sugar issues that aren't so great. That is going to make you feel bad as well. You know what? What two things make me reach for processed foods the most? Poor sleep and activity. Isn't that weird? Those two things will promote me wanting to grab processed food, junk food, however you want to categorize it, more than anything else that I've ever paid attention to or tracked, which I've tracked a lot of this stuff. I noticed that if I get a poor night's sleep, the cravings are like crazy. I noticed that if I have a sedentary day, don't get up, don't exercise, don't train or what that, kind of lounge around, boy, do I want something fast junk food like food. Is that a mechanism of like we're seeking high calorie dense foods or is it just comfort? It's kind of comfort because it would be the opposite, right? The opposite would be true, but you would think that if I went trained that I'd want calorie dense foods, I'd want all those calories. I need those calories because I just depleted myself, which makes more biological sense. We've turned foods into drugs. That's what it is. So food is more of a drug response. Yes, 100%. Yes, we have turned food. So what scientists have done with ultra process foods, if they've, I mean, they've really, people don't realize this. The money and effort that has gone into the food science is remarkable. When you start to go down the rabbit hole, your mind continuously gets blown at just how much money time and effort they have spent on really figuring this out. How to get these foods to trigger mechanisms in your body to make them so irresistible that they've literally turned foods into drugs in terms of how your body reacts. So you're not reaching for them for nutrients. No. Your body and brain is reaching them for this drug-like effects. Or else Justin's point would make more sense. It would make more sense that after a hard workout that I would reach for a, you know, 1,500 calorie fast food lunch, whatever. So to put it differently, right? In nature, to find palatability would require some sort of effort, right? So you want a high, a nutrient dense food like meat in nature. Well, you got to go chase the animal down. You got to kill it. Yeah, you got to kill it. And then you, and then you get your meat. You want to find something sweet fruit and for most of human history was pretty hard to come by. Didn't look like the fruit that we've, that we have now, like apples, very little flesh, big seeds, same thing with bananas and other fruits that we've kind of modified. Honey, you had to go through bees to get honey. And so that was considered. I mean, honey, you know, for most cultures for a long time was like very, very, I don't know, expensive kind of luxurious type food. Desirable. Now you can, you can find foods that hit those and then some in the brain. And it requires no effort at all. It's no different than what pornography has done to our brains when it comes to sex for most of human history. You want to have sex with somebody who's very attractive. There's some hoops you got to go through. And you really need to pass a lot of tests and be worthy of that. Now you could just, you know. Now because of that, I feel like I've changed over time my recommendation to a client or a potential client when it comes to getting in shape and like what steps would I take first? I think in the past, I would have leaned heavy on the diet because we know how much diet is. I would tell somebody like, you know, I'll cut these foods out or add these foods and, you know, just that alone is already going to change the body morning because we know how big percentage food is, but knowing what a, how much more a challenge it is to eat good foods because you don't move or aren't exercising makes me reverse how I would probably recommend. Like I think now I think I do things to make you feel good. Yeah. Yeah. Like let me like, like, especially like when I think back to like even my own habits of exercise, like I really think now, which I don't think I've ever recommended this to a client. Like obviously I've been done training clients for a long time now and if I go back again, I think I would recommend a very similar to a maps 15 type of protocol to clients before they did any daily activity. Yeah. Yes. Like literally just little momentum bills. Yeah. Like just 15 minutes. Gosh. Every day. No, you're right. I would do the same thing. Yeah. And I would, and I would literally just, and would I tell them nutritionally just track for me because one I already know tracking will make them self-regulate by 15% just a little bit less calories, right? Secret protein out. All I want you to do to these two exercises every day. That's it. Track what you're doing. Report back to me. Then as a coaching trainer, I assess it and I go, I don't look to take away. I look where can I add top areas protein, fiber, healthy fats, right? And I just start giving them little bits of like, because low enough dose, it's going to build up a lot of that like good feeling. Yeah. And you're not going to get a lot of the detriment of like, oh, I overdid it or I, you know, now I got to recover, I'm sore or whatever. And I recognize the behaviors that are attached to the movement again. Like I was saying earlier that I recognize that when I don't work out, I tend to crazy. So just when I train, it isn't going to be a hard session at all or a great session just because I lifted that day. I automatically want to make better food choices. It's not like I'm telling myself I need to because I, I want to. I like in a better state. Yeah. We had two days this weekend, one weekend, one day we would train one day we didn't. And the day that, and this is where this is coming up for me is like, I could feel the difference between the two and the day that we worked out together. I looked at Katrina and I'm like, no, I know. And we were ordering out, right? That was where we're at. Like we didn't have anything prepared for the day. Her and I are like, oh, let's, let's order, let's order in. And as we're going through door to Ashley and the things, I'm like, I don't want any of those things like that, that we're going through because I want, I wanted something healthy. My body was craving that it's versus the day before when I hadn't trained and we had ordered by the way. I want to, I want to add a little caveat. You trained appropriately. I think a terrible workout. We beat their shit out of yourself. Yeah. Were you cortisol, cortisol spikes? Like you'll be seeking comfort from food. Sure. You know, this reminds me of God, man. You guys ever think back to arguments you had that you thought you were saw, right? And then years later, you look back at, oh, they were right all the time. Whoops. I had an instructor that used to teach meditation classes. At one point I had a small studio in addition to the wellness studio where we did group classes. And this was a meditation expert and they made a comment to me that I couldn't let pass. So we were talking about the benefits of meditation and they were paying me. I mean, I was hiring them to teach them. I saw, you know, I was interested in learning and I took some meditation classes from them, but by no means that I have a lot of experience. And they were talking about all the benefits and the values and I said, you know, what's weird about meditation? What's cool is that your clients that you train, Sal, you don't even have to talk to them about diet. If they just meditate, they'll eat better. And I remember I was like, I can't let that slide. So I'm like, no, it doesn't work that way. So we got in this big old debate. We got in this big old debate. Well, they actually showed me a study. They actually showed me several studies where when people meditated daily, they actually ate healthier. And I remember I still went against it and I've argued it in this and that and whatever. But I think that they made a really good point and that is when you are, when you're able to, like through meditation or whatever practice, you start to feel better in your body. You start to feel more present. You don't feel like you have to distract yourself or whatever. You're probably less likely to reach for food as a way to comfort yourself. And again, studies would show this. Isn't this parallel to what we're finding with those Zempik in these like GLPs because of the lowering of brain inflammation? Yeah. And that's what they think, right? That's what they speculate, but I mean, it just makes sense even with like feeling better with the body, you know, meditating. So you're reducing stress. So you can actually make conscious decisions that benefit you, you know, all that matters. Like you're just going to do a lot better if you bring yourself into that state. Perfect transition to me getting to this beef. I have with Sal, Justin. Oh, oh, this would be good. Did you know that? Did you want a beef? What happened? I got beef with you. You got some beef? Yeah. I said, I said a text that I don't think, I don't know if Justin, you pay attention to our mind pump one on one weekends or whatever it that. Oh, yeah. I read it, but then I don't respond to it. Let you guys squabble it out. Because I was saying that, hey, we should, we should buy more Weight Watchers because the news that just came out with Oprah, Oprah has stepped away. She's donating her shares, but that was given away. Like, I think I want to say like $1.8 million worth of her shares. No billion. No billion. No, no, no. Like sold her whole stock in there? Yeah. She has shares. She had shares in the company. See how much it was. There's controversy around this, right? So she has came out publicly in the last year and shared that part of her huge success in weight loss had to do with, she didn't say what drug she was taking, but she was taking a drug or pharmaceutical or something. Yeah. And so there's a lot of speculation that it was, you know. Some good time. Yeah. It was basically Ozympic or the other name brands or what like that. And so she's decided to step away and to stay away from the controversy on, she was doing it to exit, make money and all of that. She just donated her shares, which is a smart play on her part. Now I made the case that, listen, I already thought Weight Watchers was a good buy at $4. It's now, it plummeted because of her announcing you, the biggest spokesperson for Weight Watchers in the last. Yeah. So it's a good hit from them. Yes. They took a 20% hit or what that shares dropped down. It basically dropped down to $3 share. I said, do that. Sal said, didn't want to do that and thinks that Weight Watchers is going to go under of that. Now I made the case that. Matt over her, I think that all these diet companies because I'm looking at what these GLP ones are doing. Well, and I'm going to tell you right now, if you're a company and you're, your sole job is giving people diets and helping them with their diets and here's your diet food. Here's your whatever like Weight Watchers does and other companies. I think these GLP ones are going to put them out of business. I do. I already know people on GLP ones. So your argument is going to put them out of business. Adam's argument is that they're going to incorporate it. They are incorporating, right? They are already correct. And Adam's Adam's argument is this company's been around for 60 years and I'm going to bet on a company that's been successful for 60 years that because the market wins change that they adapt it just like I would hope we would. This is if all of a sudden, but this is truly a market shattering technology. This is not like anything we've ever seen. Well, is there any numbers of people that are seeking the drug itself without any kind of like coaching along with it? Most most. The vast majority of people are just taking a GLP one. Yeah. I don't think so. I don't I don't think by any means that like what's the value of Weight Watchers because they was a social component and you're working with those people and they're helping you, you know, but you know how powerful that is CrossFit's example. Shitty workouts. Look at all people doing it still. No, no, no, no, imagine if there was a problem that would be this. That's not the right comparison. It would be like a peptide that made you want to work out. So imagine if he gave you a peptide like, man, I really want to work out. I enjoy it. I'm not going to cry. I'm going to shit about CrossFit. I'm going to go do my own thing now. Yeah. You know, as, as, as much as we're, they're, they're screwed. I think that they know they're screwed. I don't think that's why they're jumping on. I don't think it's that revolutionary. I don't think it's, I mean, I think in the, in the, in the, in the world of drugs, peptides, pharmaceuticals, weight loss things that have been invented. It is the most breakthrough thing we've ever seen. There's no, they're not even the same universe. There's too much. There's two, yeah. Okay. Fair. I agree with that, but that's not enough. That's not enough or else, or else we would see obesity already on the decline. Uh, yes. No, no, no. Hold on a second to your, to your point, if it's going to put a wet, put out all the, all the companies that have any sort of tie to diets, because this drug comes out, I think you would see a movement in, in the obesity. It's already starting. How it's, it's just started to, um, the market is really now starting to explode. I do. I think it's going to solve obesity or health issues. No, but if your market, if your weight watchers in your market is people who like really need help and support so they don't overeat and I need real help doing this. And then they, there's this peptide that comes out that people take and it's not a stimulant. It's not going to do anything. You know, like, like the prior medications, they just take it and it's like, wow, I'm not really thinking about food like I used to. I don't even want to drink up as much alcohol. Like, you know, I don't like bad habits. I kind of feel like doing them less like that. Like why, why would they, that my point is what kind of coaching they use. Now I can see personal trainers and coaches and fitness coaches and, you know, people interested in like building muscle because obviously just sitting less isn't going to do it. You're going to lose muscle and fat. You also have to eat the high protein. I think there's a lot of opportunity in that for sure potential. Yeah. I mean, do you, do you believe that coaches and trainers are also going to exist? Oh, you think coaches and trainers are going away? I know, I think, no, I think they're going to do fine because the exercise component. Okay. So, okay. So here's the thing too. This is the, like just how I think because it would be so naive if somebody looked at our business. Okay. And we're nothing compared to weight watchers. Sure. If someone looked at our business and cause podcasting is going to go away completely or because digital programs are never get bought online that we would disappear. Huh. I have a little more faith in us and our ability to adapt. Did I send you the revenue? Yeah. No, they've been on a down climb. They've been on a decline for almost a decade. So that's your bet. That's your best argument is that the company's been on it, you know, profitability wise and gross wise. And I, but I think that the ozympic sales are what's going to take them out of that. Bro, at the very least, it's going to give them their best year coming. Why would they, why would somebody pay weight watchers to get semi-glutide when they can go get the peptide by itself? Because they're already in the network. Dude, you, how many leads do you think they have over 60 years of collecting people's emails? So, so, so weight watchers. Yeah. How many people do you think? So they're going to start providing the peptides? They are. Oh, they're connected to it. But what I mean is, so that's all they're going to do, they're going to pivot in that direction. I'm not saying that's the only thing they're going to do, but imagine that they, okay, there is a whole bunch of people that. That's a good question because I don't know how they're working with these, with some. Oh, they're directly partnered. They're making money. They're making money off of that. Getting people to go to like a physician that actually prescribes is a whole another step on its own with, instead of just going into like what you are, like your network you're going to. What do you, what do you think? 60 years. Okay. You know how many emails we have. You know how small we are. How big do you think they're internal networks? And then how many people do you think we introduced semi-glutide to? Would you not agree that probably 80% of the people that listened to our show, heard about semi-glutide from us first? Yeah. So what makes you think that that isn't the same thing that happened in Weight Watchers, that this is their trusted source of information, information related to nutrition. Otherwise. It's a very interesting market. When I look at it, it's the most disruptive thing we've ever seen. That we're ever going to, we've ever seen. I'll bet money on that in this space. Okay. There's nothing. I agree to agree to agree. Sure. Agree to agree to agree. So I also think that that is a Weight Watchers has been on this downward turn. They saw the writing on the wall and they partnered up with a peptide company or that's the move. Is that how they are? They're pep, they're partnered with Ozympics. So you go to them and then Weight Watchers has you talk with a doctor. I mean, and then they provide it to you. How does that work? What does this say? This is how it works right here. Weight Watchers has faced more competition recently from GLP one prescription drugs like Ozympic Wigowi sometimes used for weight loss in response. It launched a new membership plan for people on those drugs that gives members access to doctors who can prescribe these medications. Okay. So last year we also made a hundred million plus deal to buy sequence. A telehealth business that offers virtual prescriptions. So they have a, they have a telehealth business. So they're going to, so they're, they're very, they're pivoting big time. Yes. You know what's crazy about this? Can I just say this? What's crazy? Because I don't know about it yesterday, Doug. No. You should see what they're out right now. It's okay. They're 320. I bought more today. You know what's crazy about this? By the way, all your pics of, of, of Well, your portfolio, your portfolio is mine. Hey, hold up. Hubspot is your biggest buy it though. It doesn't matter that I didn't buy it. I buy all the ones Adam mentions and he doesn't buy. Yes. That's my biggest blunder was I said to do it and I didn't do it. You did it. It is literally your portfolio right now. Listen to one. Listen. Oh God, dude. Hey, was it that first said the Earth was round but then Columbus came over here. No. So the thing with, with these GLP ones because some of Glutide is the first. It's one of the first ones. Now they're coming out with other ones that are more effective. Right. It's bro. I am reading about this stuff and I'm looking at the science. This is weird. I don't know where it's going to go, but this could very well. This one. Tris epitide. Tris epitide. Tris epitide. This could very well be one of the most prescribed things ever. Oh, I think it's already on its way. Yeah. Yeah. It's got to be on its way. I mean, it's the only reason why it's not. I bet it's trajectory is already there. It's just needs time. It hasn't been around long enough because. But there's also not just weight loss. Like there's weird studies that come out showing people. I mean, so my, I mean, obviously, not drinking alcohol. I, huh? Obviously, I know nothing about stocks. I just, oh, just say that. Like this is just fun, fun gambling. You know, the gambling for us in a sense. And, but here's, here's a couple of things. One, they're out of 52 week. You made a good, you made a good point. Now that I see this, your case, you might have swayed me because now that I see that they actually made this deal with the company telehealth and that they're actually make money. I mean, I mean, weight watchers in my opinion could look completely different in the next five years. Yeah. I'm thinking old weight watchers. Yes. I'm like, how would they like who cares? Yeah. But I mean, I'm just, that's just like a good old rule thumb. I was going to say that's so funny. It stuck in my head. You can still say it. It just doesn't get the same for Joe's started again. I mean, you're always safer betting on companies that have been around for decades. You know, betting on some startup or new idea is not a good idea, but a company that has lasted through probably three, four recessions already and found a way to survive and have been way higher valuation than they are right now. And then they partnered with what we believe. I mean, we've been talking about that this space exploding. There's a reason why we got partnered up or as early as we did because we believed in where it's going and they obviously saw the same writing on the wall. That to me is it would be naive to think that they are not going to do well because of that. These medics, these, these peptides are making such waves that they're scaring. I just opened this episode with high ultra process food talk, right? It's scaring companies that like mega companies and make ultra process. There's like, it's freaking them out. Because they're like, uh-oh, this is the first time they have maybe come out with something that's going to make people want less Oreos and Doritos and shit like that. Yeah, this is totally not this off topic, but there was this video of these, like these really huge like obese guys playing in a band together. And the comment section had me just die. It was like, they're coming up with names for them. Oh God, you know, like Oreo feed wagon. OBCD. Anyways, that just reminded me of that. I was dying. I love, I love. Back to my argument, okay, on why we should buy is also too is I think that what happened with Oprah was like the, for somebody who was buying the stock. Well, that makes a dip. Yes, cause it's, it's the, you know, she is, you know, to the average consumer, the face of way washers. So you see Oprah walk away from it and the average person goes, Oh my God, this is all bad news. I just saw, oh, this is great. Are you guys going to try one of them? I will, I'm going to do it because someone has to here because I can't come on too many other peptides, but I have a full disclosure. I don't know what might happen. I feel like I have four of them that are fighting each other. No, I know somebody close to me. I don't want to say too much. You just want me to, I've got several people, but I talk to her regularly and she tells me, she's like, I know somebody. I'm like, are you high? Are you energized? Are you weird? Do you feel like agitated? She's like, no, I just feel the same. Like what about food? She goes, I just don't think about it as much. I'm like, do you still like the taste of it? She goes, yeah, I still like it. I just don't want to eat of it. And she's like the other day I had ice cream. She's like, I just had a little bit. Yeah. I don't want to eat more. And she's like, that's why I want to try. That's why I want to try it. Because I know my own behaviors around things like ice cream and sweets. And so that's what I'm most curious about. Do all of a sudden I can have like this tiny little one scoop of ice cream and walk away. My stomach problems have ruined that for me already. I'm like, I don't have those like, oh, I want this. You know, like dream about it. Bro, you know what's so wild? And I'm like, oh, it's alcohol probably. You could have that. And it's wild that we still do stuff. Like there's times when I know, like this is going to fuck me up and I still choose to go in. I know. That's so bad, bro. Tonight I'm paying for it, dude. Yeah, you're aware? Exactly. Hey, hey, drug-like effects? No. I mean, how many times do you do drugs? I mean, no, this is going to suck. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why it's like, I mean, self-awareness is one step in the process here, but it's only one step. It's still, you got to, because I'm fully aware of what I'm going into. I used to love pizza like that, too. I just can't do this. Oh, no, that'll destroy me the most. Who was it that was going to talk about Tramoth on, was that you? Oh, oh, oh. There was something that he posted. I can't remember it was. Yeah, oh. It was controversial. Where am I? Oh, yeah. So this is on the most recent, on the most recent, well, all-in podcast. I'm liking him more and more lately. He's going hard. I thought of it, wasn't it? Huh? No, no. Oh, okay. So it was actually really interesting, and it definitely should take from the clip. And so maybe the YouTube guys all find out exactly where it is on the latest episode. But he, like, explains it. And I'm probably going to butcher it, but I thought it was brilliant when he, after he explained it. All of his companies that he owns and runs, and it's a part of, no HR, no matter how big they are, no HR. Oh, wow. And he makes the case for how toxic they are. Cause it's like, he's like, name an HR where anybody who works there has ever said it's like truly there for them. It's always there to like protect, support the company. It has this, this random, you know, private conversations that it has. And it has all these rules and regulations. And he's like, dude, we're completely transparent. He goes, I have our group of people vote on everything. Like he explained how he operates without one. And it made me go like, dude, why, why would you ever put HR in? And it made me actually want to look at the origin of where that came from and who started that, that idea. I wonder if it actually helps or hurts because I think the thought process, like we need HR to prevent any potential. So what he does is he partners with, he goes, for legal reasons, you partner with a law firm and you talk to a law firm to make sure that all your, your, your T's across the knives are dotted for any scenarios where you would need a legal team. And so you have that in place, but you operate everything within transparency within the company. And he goes, it's just, and he made a really, I've never heard anybody make that argument before. And after hearing it, and the reason why this is interesting to us, because right now building an HR department and everything like that is top of mind for us in this business. And we've been in the process of that. You're still head of HR. You have to have real healthy communication. That's the right now. Adam's head of HR. Justin offended me. That's cause you're a pussy. Yeah. Come back to work, you know. Grow a pair. Who do I report Adam to? Yeah. So, but I mean, after listening to that, I'll share it with all of you guys cause you guys have to listen to him again explaining exactly the logistics of how it works. Super logical. And the other three guys are just like, oh my God, yeah. Brilliant. Makes total sense. Jason, my least favorite of the four guests, try to challenge it with like his, you know, his woke ideology. Yeah. And Chamoth just. You know what happens a lot of companies when they get really big. I experienced this a while ago. Won't give too many details. But I got on a phone call with this company to talk about stuff. And it was like a basic conversation we're going to have. You know, having to do with Mind Pump. And like 15 people on the call for the most basic conversation. Okay, let's all go around the room and introduce ourselves. Hi, I'm Susie from blah, blah, blah. Hi, I'm blah, blah, blah. It's like 10 minutes of intros. And we get to have the call and I'm like, it could have been me and you and we could have been done. Why don't we have all these people make. These corporate. How much you pay these people sit on this call. Still run things like that. That's just an example. I think of. These corporations. Yeah. I think it's just an example of what happens when you infuse money into a company like. We used to talk about this when we first started and when we were like, you just get and go on and, you know, like, hey, and we would ever, we will pine this guy ideas, everything that we had when we first started. And I can't remember who said it out of you guys, but you're like, you know, imagine if we had, you know, $10 million that we could go do this and this. And I'm like, oh my God, that'd be like the worst thing actually is that we have all these ideas. We think are good ideas. And what you would do is you would just go hire people for those ideas. Instead of actually, which is like the. So great book to read. I think I've recommended this a long time ago, which is called the guys who started base camp rework is the name of the book. And it's the opposite philosophy that which is you should never hire anybody for something in your company until you have worked out first. Yeah. Until you do that position first. So you have a true understanding of the value of that position, how hard somebody should work at that, whether it's all the above and then you hire. And until you're willing to discipline yourself to put those hours in work that and do that, you shouldn't hire somebody. If there's so many times and the opposite happens when you get all of a sudden round, you know, two or series B, and all of a sudden they get $100 million of views. Like, oh, we're going to do this and we're going to do that. And you have a bunch of people because the perception too, it's like they want to, they want to show that they have all of these things that you need them for. You know, even if you don't, like they're going to create it. So it's like you got to be conscious of that. Yeah. No, a hundred percent. It's like they're creating their own value. Oh, well, I'm busy. Look what I'm doing. It's a huge bureaucracy within a company. Oh, do you remember that company? I'm not going to say what it was, but remember that company we visited and we walked once a years ago. We just like, and we walked around. I asked all the employees what they did. They couldn't even explain their job. Yeah. Oh, I, you know, this and then we're like, oh my God, there's like 15 people like five Facebook managers. Yeah. Yeah. Why is there any five Facebook managers? What do you all do? Oh, there's data on this, right? Like how many, like big companies, how much time is actually like productive when people work versus how much. Well, look what happened, look what happened to Twitter. Twitter's still around. I know. Has Twitter, for a consumer, has Twitter changed? It's UI. It's more efficient. Okay. Yeah. What, and then how many people did he cut? I think two thirds. Yeah. He cut more than half, right? Yeah. If I'm not mistaken. I mean, thousands of people. Yeah. Like talking about the inefficiency of that business for somebody to come in and cut thousands of people. For people listening right now, because what a lot of people will hear is, oh my God, those people lost their jobs. That's terrible. Well, yes, that's, there are people that lost their jobs, but what you want in markets is you want efficiency, because otherwise it's wasted resources, meaning the resources, okay, money, but really money represents resources. When money goes to stuff that's not efficient, that means it's not going to places that it could go to become more efficient, more innovation that are products. It's rewarding inefficiency. Yeah. It's rewarding inefficiency. And so your dollar doesn't go as far as it did before because 30% of the jobs or people that are doing or whatever the case is, whatever the number is, it's just they don't have to be doing it. They shouldn't, they don't need to be doing it. And so it's just a waste. So since we're in this conversation, and I want you to listen, I got to go, I'm going to download and listen to the whole conversation. I only saw a short clip of this, but it was, what was the name of the guy that we really liked his speech when we were at ARC? I think it was Constantine or... Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Right? I don't know how much of his stuff you guys have consumed. I've seen a few videos of him. Yeah, he really good part. You ever had him debate? Yeah. Great debater. Was his podcast Triggernomics? Yeah, something like that. Great interviewer too. He does a really good job. Smart. Yeah. So he was interviewing Eric Weinstein. And Eric Weinstein brought up a point that I thought was really interesting, saying that we are real time watching capitalism die. And his explanation for that is because the model is getting upended because of what AI is doing. You know, it's always been the harder you work, the better you are at your job, the more money you make, the more customers. He goes, but we are fleeing from those positions and we're replacing that with automation and AI. And because of that, it kind of disrupts how the whole capitalist philosophy, and he goes, and nobody is having this conversation. No one's talking about like, what do we do when it no longer looks the same that it has looked for us? What vacuum are you creating for something else? Well, it's still, so capitalism is a kind of a political term. It represents like markets, right? More free market type societies. And markets have always moved towards innovation. That's the goal. That was the goal. The goal was that more innovative, more efficient succeeds, less innovative, less efficient fails. And so we continue to become, we continue to progress. Products get cheaper. We get better services. We get more of what we want necessarily, not necessarily a good thing, of course, because we don't always know what we need, but still that's just what markets do. So AI is a result of that. AI will enter into markets, and if markets are still open, then we'll figure out and solve problems based on that. The problem I don't think is going to be that we're not working. I think the problem's going to be like, oh, I have everything I want without that. It's not even that we're not working. You're just going to have AI to solve what free markets look like. The mathematical capabilities going to compute that will be instantaneous. Well, hold on. I know what you're saying now. This is totally different. So in markets, it's about supply and demand, and those dollars, those signals will buy signals, dictate price. Now you may have an AI that can read markets in real time and adjust prices so fast. Adjust, wow. So you can literally go to buy a product and watch the price adjust. And the truth is the four or five biggest companies that get there first are going to be a monopoly in a sense because they will have built. So what you see Google doing, what Elon's doing, what Facebook is doing, they're all building their own kind of AI models and tools. And the first one to probably get there with their size and magnitude will now have the ability to, like you said, real time adjust the market instead of allowing the market to unfold, competition to come in because there's a gap because they're not servicing the market correctly. Well, that will always be servicing the market because they'll be able to read the signs instantly. And so it's just like, and I don't know what you call this, but it's not true pure capitalism anymore because of... It's still reading the signs of supply and demand. It's just faster. It would just be much faster. Faster than human could possibly do it? Yeah, faster than markets could do it for sure. The reason why markets outcompeted non-markets or like socialism or centralized markets, because centralized markets did a lot of guessing. They'd have to guess what the right price would be based off of the labor and based off of, so they would do surveys, they'd have people go out and it just turned into a ton of waste. You had fields of wheat rotting in the Soviet Union, for example, because they couldn't become efficient, whereas markets are very efficient. But I could see how AI, if it was connected to everything. Of course. I mean, the beautiful thing about the free market, the way it stands right now is, and you make this point all the time when someone talks about a company, oh, that's terrible. They're doing this. It's like, that's okay because they can keep doing terrible business. It pisses off enough people for long enough. It opens the door for somebody else to fill that gap, offer a service that is either complimentary, competitive to, or cheaper than that person. But if you've already gained market share and you have this AI capability to pivot and move as fast as the market signs will, how does anyone ever compete? Here comes a competitor. Boom, we just adjusted. We adjusted. I don't know. Interesting conversation. Not one that I even thought about. It's easy. And I hadn't heard anybody propose it. He's like, listen, he goes, if John Adams and Karl Marx were alive right now, this would be a heated debate between the two of them. Because they would be going. So far Marx has lost, but I mean, we'll see. He has. And I definitely believe he's lost. And I think for the, but one of the things that Weinstein brings up that I think is interesting, an interesting argument is that for the first time in our lifetime for sure. So what this reminds me of is when the railroads were being built across America, people who owned the railroads had so much incredible power and they became the first massive tycoons into the point where, and they weren't a full monopoly. That's not true. But it was, I mean, you know, some of these guys had so much power money that people were afraid. Like, oh, they could literally dictate prices of good. There's nothing we could do about it. I mean, doesn't that kind of feel like that when you, like, I mean, I've even heard the fear in you when you talk about our business and you're just like, I don't want us to do this because YouTube could shut us down here. I mean, there's a little bit of that fear already starting to surface within companies like ours because it's like, man, they hold so much power and it is a, it's a personally owned platform. They could just shut us down or make our lives incredibly miserable tough. At what point is innovation just like, is it not helping anymore? You know what I mean? Like at what point we're like, okay, we've even innovated enough. Like maybe we don't need to continue to innovate. It's when we realized that the purpose was found in the hard work. We haven't come there yet. No. We still are, we're still searching for easier, less work, less struggle, less days of work, less time working. Faster food, faster. Faster everything. Are we going to find, are there going to be video games in the future that are immersive where you go in your VR and you build houses? You're like work. Oh, I feel so much better. Can't you see that when we're trying to colonize Mars? You know, and then having all of the 3D printed like materials and everything already there. How long do you think Justin before, when we go colonize Mars before Mars declares independence from Earth? Because that's going to happen. Oh yeah. For sure. That's why I'm interested to see if obviously that's kind of the drive because we're so driven by purpose. What if our purpose is then to expand and then go elsewhere and start another civilization on Mars. That's going to take a lot of work. It will, but let's just say like Mars at some point the people over there are going to be like, I'm not going to take our order from Earth. Yeah. Screw you, Earth. Yeah. We're declaring independence. It's like America had part two. Yeah. Screw you. I could see that happening. Adam, you had some other data that you were going to bring up a bunch of times. I see the note. I want to know what you're talking about women talking versus men talking. I saw this. I saw this stat and thought, the guys can double check. Maybe Andrew or Doug can double check my numbers. Did you guys know that on average, men talk significantly less than women do every single day? Yeah. Why are you talking about that? Why are you laughing? But like a lot. The average man uses it once and we kind of shut down after that. It's something like, there's an actual number. It is. It's 5,000 to 15,000. Wow. One third. One third. So I got. Really, it's in the storytelling. I mean, that's part of it, man. Like a lot of that could be cut and condensed. So give me the facts. I found this really interesting too because I consider myself an extrovert. But if you saw me at my home, you would not think that. I am such a different person inside. I wonder if you talk more than Katrina does though, daily. Well, we have a podcast that kind of doesn't count. But if you were just in a normal regular, I bet she would. You think she still talks more than you? Ask her. I mean, because she's always pretty close. She's already, she's always pulling the conversation out of me. I'm an outlier. I think I'm more like that. You are an outlier. I'm like a stereotype. You're like two chicks. I like just grunt at home. I mean, are you guys like, I mean, how are you, Doug? And how are you, Justin? Like when you, when I, when I go home, I'm a bit, the average person would think I'm introverted at home. I don't talk a lot. Yeah. I, uh, I talk a lot all the time. But I know I'm an outlier. You know, it's interesting about that. So it's funny is that. Did you find my stat to confirm? Well, I'm seeing conflicting information here. Oh, let's see what you're saying. So there's another study that said that is largely the same. Women just slightly ahead. Women, 16,215 words a day. And men, 15,669. Oh, no, I don't believe that. I don't believe that. The number I got was, was three. I almost feel like it's a stupid study. People know this. Come on. If you're a man or a woman, you know this. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, you know this. Like women, they do communicate more. They communicate about more things. They connect differently than men do. Okay. Let me, here's your, here's your evidence right here. They're better with details. Here's your evidence right here. Justin, you and I are in a car. Oh, so you got right here. He's got 20,000 and 13,000. You, Andrew. Yeah, I see that too. Yeah. Researchers find 30% more FOX P2 in the brain of girls. This protein is a key molecule for communication in mammals. We lack something in our brains. Hey, so here's your, here's your test. Justin and I, we're in the car and we're driving somewhere three hours away and we're driving there and nobody says a word for most of the trip. Super comfortable. Do you? Yeah. I was like, oh, he's mad at me. Oh, no. It's totally normal. No. We're just driving. You hungry? No. Okay, let's keep going. Just cruise. Yeah. Actually, you know, that just, you asked the question about me or Katrina for sure. Cause I'd now like, one of the things that get frustrated is like, I actually don't like guitar. I want to listen to my music. Oh. And she's always turning it down to talk to me about something. And like, I can't even get through a full song. I'm like, I've heard one song in this list. I've got an hour and a half drive. I've heard one full song. I know your positive music. She turns it down. Like, I'm going to go in and I'm like, yeah, I'm feeling like 30 seconds into my, I'm vibing right. And then, Hey, you know, tomorrow, you know, in the first couple, I just like, just been a grand, but after a while, I'm like, I just don't think we're going to get through this playlist. I'm saying, I'm going to hear a whole song. You know, it's funny. Yeah, definitely. She's, I forgot what I was watching with Jessica, but there was like men and women and, and I was laughing at the, how the women were communicating versus the men. She's like, guys are, they were like just basic. You know what I mean? They were just kind of basic or whatever. And we'll, and we'll make jokes too. I think the word simple, simple, simple. And it's, I think it's, I think it's true. Who was it that we were talking to? Oh, there was that years ago on the podcast, we had the transgender athlete on. And she was, went from female to male. Yeah. And she said, she started taking male doses to testosterone. She's like, yeah, I felt my wide kaleidoscope of emotions compressed down into like four emotions. Oh, no, sort of objectify. That's what it's like. I think she did say that. She admitted that. Yeah. I was like, this is great. A bunch of gorillas. Walking around. It's hard to control. There's a few of us that invent things. I like it when guys point to that to like, they'll get, online, you see us all the time, like, you know, men and women argue. It's just stupid. I hate this, but I also find it comical when dudes on there are like, you know, men invent blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Just cause you're the same, you both have a dick. D, man, yeah. You know, we invented, no, no, bro, there's a four guys that invented most things. So you're not one of them relaxed. Yeah, you're not doing a lot. It always cracks me up anyway. So, organify has a sleep product. Have you guys ever tried it yet? I have. Dude, everybody right now, huh? Yes. A lot of people come out. I like it. I like their sleep product. I have not tried it. I haven't seen it. chill you out. It's a really good product. Okay. So how does it, how does it compare to, cause they would, you would normally use their, um, like, you know, I think they're all juice. Yeah. Oh, oh, you can take them both. Oh, yeah. So their sleep, their sleep formula is more for occasional nights of restlessness. It's not something to use every night. Okay. It's pretty strong. Oh, their gold juice is at every single night. And you're totally fine. So what, what is in it that makes it? Oh, there's, there's herbs and they're like valerian and stuff that really puts you, I mean, they're like sedatives. Oh, yeah. So you'll feel, you know, really good product. We have so many of these companies that we work with that have different sleep products. It would be fun to do like, well, no, no, I want to wake up in the morning. So please don't take that advice. Don't do that. No, it'd be interesting to like, you know, a block of, of Ned, a block of, you know, I'm saying a block of Legion, a block of Organifi, and report back the types of sleep, track our stuff. I mean, we have all the people should try different things because everybody, people who have different chemistry, correct. So someone might have sleep issues because they need the lack of certain nutrient or somebody else is just generally more anxious. The pull up the ingredients, Doug. Is it, is it gummies or is it? No, it's a powder. Yeah. So passionflower, valerian root is in there. Camomile. Camomile is in there. Lavender. Lavender. So these are all those are all like these are all yes, traditional herbs that you take for anxiety. So if the reason why you don't sleep is because you physically feel anxious, this product will do will do really well for you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I like to see what's in, you know, okay, so Sal, why would you I guess you could I guess you could be getting enough magnesium but still having a hard time. So yeah, that was such a game changer for me was not because you lacked it. I know because I was deficient in it. And so that magnesium became like a huge sleep. So this one for me puts was really nice. I've used it now a few nights. It feels real nice. Yeah. Speaking of which was sleep, you measured your sleep quality without with them without THC. Why do you gotta bring that up? Huh? Why are you gonna bring that up? What do you mean? What do you want to put me on blast? No, I'm talking about your shit. What are you talking about? Well, because I'm still wrestling with it. That's why because I have this deep sleep. Yes. Because here's the data show here's here's the challenge that I'm having is that so I went on that I don't know how long it was was like two months, right? Where I went completely cannabis free. And one of the things I struggled with was good sleep was like I didn't feel I and this is actually perceived right even though my my ratings weren't very good either but there was other things for me to probably tease out and test. And then I then I started doing the three two one method the last this was last week. And I'd noticed I started improving my sleep score. And then what I hadn't teased out is like okay now that I'm making a conscious effort to eat three hours before drink only two hours, right? No, they're trunks. Yeah, being really being really stinging on that or better, right? Let me pull the cannabis out and see if I can still get a good and really what it was more like for me to see was, could I get as good of a sleep because I had already tested no cannabis and felt like I didn't get good. So what happened also leading up to that remember you were in here talking to Doug and you guys were talking about how your deep sleep was so poorly affected right and and I and then I think I said it then I said I wonder if it's the THC affects deep sleep. Yeah, every time. Right. And so what what I was finding on my worrying was I was in I was eight hours of sleep eight over eight hours of sleep some nights. But then for some reason, I was getting like 10 minutes or less of deep sleep. And that was when you made the point about the THC and I'm like, okay, let me pull that out. Let me see that. And the first time I did that, I got almost two hours of deep sleep throughout the gates. And it was the best sleep score I've got. But I didn't feel that way, which is a fucked up thing was I was I didn't wake up better or didn't feel like I got better nights rest. In fact, I actually told Katrina was like, man, I felt like a little restless than I and according to my restlessness, I was a little bit up on restlessness. But I but I did get the deep sleep and I know the deep sleep and REM sleep are more important anyways. So you know, alcohol does that too. Alcohol people will fall asleep, but you get no deep sleep. It's really interesting. Well, I also so there's another thing I haven't tested because I really enjoy cannabis at night is really pushing back earlier time of having my cannabis because what I would notice was when I was getting my deep sleep. So deep sleep and Doug was the one that was like schooling me on this. I was not aware that deep sleep was like the first bit of your sleep, your sleep cycle. Because on my aura ring, my deep sleep always came at the end. Maybe when the teacher is wearing off. That's exactly what's happening. So THC wears off, which is also what I would dream and stuff if I dream it's after I've got up to the bathroom two or three times, the back half after it's already wore off for four or five, six hours. And so what I haven't tried yet, which I will mess with is okay, what if I have, you know, if I if I do want to have cannabis, maybe I smoke at five or six. And the problem with that is in the families up and stuff. And I wouldn't want to do that. I don't like to be like that. That's why I've been like that, you know, so I have to just stop. So yeah, no, I did that. I did that already. You know what? It takes I almost completely stopped and it took me two or three months, I think to finally be totally out of the what may be perceived as mild withdrawal took a little while. Yeah, I didn't really feel like I had any withdrawal. I just felt like I missed it. And I felt like I had better sleep with it than without it. That's how I felt. I'm sensitive. Well, yeah, I know, I haven't completely solved it yet. I mean, I'm trying to find a way to have that you have my cake and eat it too, right? I want to be able to enjoy that. That's the problem with a lot of sleep products is they don't improve the quality of your sleep. Oftentimes they just make you fall asleep. Yeah. Which I guess is better than not falling asleep. Well, yeah, if you're somebody who has a really hard time falling asleep that which I was before before the magnesium thing before I before mellows kind of saved me on that that I used to have a hard time falling asleep. I've now solved that like I know and what not to do to like obviously eating right before or being on my phone or something that is not a good recipe or talking about business. But if I don't do the main offenders, I take my magnesium. I'm good. I'm going to sleep. But I have had a hard time getting into my deep sleep and cannabis is probably the main culprit of that. That's the most consistent thing they show in studies. Is it helps people fall asleep, but it reduces their deep sleep? Yeah, it'd be interesting to see what the effects would I know, I would I would love to see how detrimental that is to me. That would be another motivating factor if I'm always getting eight hours of sleep, but I'm missing two hours of REM sleep, which are deep sleep. Excuse me. That would be that's weird. And I wonder how often that is like I can't be the only person. What are the benefits of deep sleep? Do you remember? It says it's restorative for the body. For example, REM sleep is restorative for the mind. So for example, you build muscle during deep sleep. That's my take away from muscle, bro. No, no, I was like, I would for sure be more buffed in South right now. If I was just kidding. That's true. I mean, I don't doubt that for a second right now is he's getting all the deep sleep deep sleep. I'll get the same deep sleep. I'd be twice as big as he is. That's the secret. That's it right there. Speaking of the companies that we work with this stuff. So in terrace, fallotin, right, their their hair product that regrows hair and peptides in it. And it works. It definitely works. It's made my hair darker. I was thinning. It definitely stopped it started to reverse it slowly. But you guys know what a derma roller is. That's really little needles you roll. Yeah. Okay. So you know what that is. Yeah, yeah. So stimulates hair growth to do that by itself. Yeah, by itself. And then if you do it with that probably a huge but if you're looked at a derma roller, it's bunch of needles. They did some ladies do it on their face. Oh, why would ladies do it? Oh, right? Because it like collagen production production. That's exactly what it does. Oh, it breaks down. It breaks up the so if I cause little punctures and the skin heals all red and you know, after done, but then it heals up. So you're using a derma roller. I haven't used that with the fallotin. I'm gonna start doing that. So if if I was insecure about my bald head, I would do the derma roller with the entera with the red light to me. Oh, wow. I would if I really cared, I don't care. I wish I I wish I cared. So for the audience, I could go do it and I could be like, see, look it, but I don't care. I'm saying, but I know there's a lot better you don't do. There's a lot of people that really do a lot way more than I thought. I didn't realize what a big what a big deal that is. And so if you had the ability to afford a red light to be able to afford entera and you can do all those things and the derma which is a big difference. That would be the hack. The hack would be to do the derma roll, do the entera and do the red light, the combination of all those. But my family members that use the fallout and are now like, oh, yeah, I've reordered it. It works really well. Yeah. I mean, if you're Jesse from Full House and you went bald, that's your whole identity, dude, bro, you know, like he would definitely be on the entire in the 90s. That's for all my 80s. I had you ever seen somebody after they've gotten a hair transplant? Have you ever seen them right after? Yeah, the doll hair. No, no, no, no, I don't mean the hair itself. They actually do a pretty good job now. I mean, like when they're done with surgery and what their head looks like, and they have to go, you'll never, you would never, and I so have a friend of mine who got it, took a picture, bro. He looked like, like a mushroom. Swollen and just I'm like, hell no. Yeah, dude. Oh, bro. Like what do you do? How do you sleep? Like it's nasty, hell no way. I wonder, I wonder why, why I don't care more. I feel like I, I mean, is that why? Yeah. I don't think so. I think that's so cool. I think you're doing it. Hey, so more than it has to solve it. The more money you make, the less you care about your hair. I don't know. I think when, I think when I was younger, I thought that was going to solve all kinds of problems. It's a song of like you. We both had like terrible teeth and, you know, it's different. That's different. Bald's head's not the same. I don't know. Bald's head used to be in style. It's very distinctive. Men used to shave their heads. They used to also powder their veins. And I even got, I got Sarai's spots on it. I got a fucked up head too. I should really, you just know how to rock what you got. That's just so. I don't know. I think you feel that like it's like confidently rock it. You're like, let's do it. I got you fooled even. I'm gonna shave my head. I'm gonna stop using Faulted. Yeah. When we first started talking about that, I remember that was like, I think I got more DMs on that than almost anything else. I could see though, there's some, I know people who in their 20s started to go bald. That's when it sucks when you're that young. Yeah. One of my best friends, actually two of my best friends. One of my best friends started to go, one of my best friends completely bald. Dude, that's the key. If you're a dude and you're young and you start to go bald. Bro, that's the key to being just get jacked. That's the answer to being ugly. I don't understand why you don't know. If you're ugly, you got body on you. Yeah. You don't even have it. Yeah. If you're ugly, that's you get ripped. There's two things. Look, that's genetics, right? Your hair is genetics. Fault tends to be a good product, but a lot of it's genetic, right? So genetics. But there's two things you can do that'll just take like whatever points you lose with that, like get jacked and make money. You get work towards that. Maps in a ball. Nobody cares. It's a perfect commercial. Map. It's just waiting to have all you ugly people. Maps in a ball. M's in a ball. Change your life. Maps in a ball. Advanced or both on sale. So all the guys out there. Both of those programs. Get on those programs. If you're bald, get on those. You'll get girls. Who's the shout out for tonight? I have a shout out. I'm going to shout out Joe Rogan because he needs it. No. What? He's like he needs any more listeners. No. The Cat Williams interview with Joe Rogan. Did you finish? I just started that. I see only Joe Rogan I've ever listened to from beginning to end. So does he just talk about a bunch of stuff that makes you think like what the hell? You know, isn't he like revealing a bunch of like behind the scenes? I don't even know if I'd say that. Just you know what? I guess so I listened to Cat. I've been listening to Cat Williams since like his very first. He's just an interesting guy. I've always, I shouldn't say always. I don't like his newer stuff. I liked his old stand up. I thought he was hilarious. I had no idea how intelligent he was. Yeah, he's men so. Do you know that you know that he reads like 60 books a week. Wow. Every week. Wow. Yes. On a normal week. We sit from like nine to 12. He was basically didn't go anywhere. Didn't celebrate anything. Didn't hang out with friends. Like he would just read, you know, eight something bucks a day or something. Wow. Yeah. His he's like, I don't know. I guess I guess I'm intrigued by his brilliance. Like because you don't if you watch this stand up and you didn't know. No, you don't think he's. You don't think. I mean, he plays a character of a pimp. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And he doesn't use any like he doesn't speak in in in you know. He doesn't give it away. You don't think. No. You would not know until you start asking him. And then and then you could see how smart he is. Even the way he communicates to Joe like there's times when he's talking to him and he's real slow to answer because you could tell he's like he's thinking in layers of like how to explain or communicate to him. This is going to come across. Yeah. And his and he the stuff that he's read. He's read all over the play all over everything you could think of. He grabbed the emerald tablets. I got so happy. I never heard of that. What the hell. I didn't even know what that was. I didn't know that tablet. So it's the Egyptian god Thoth. So it's these emerald tablets that it's like I'm not going to say a lot about it. Like you should go like check it out and read it. Like so you would definitely get into it. Yeah. Just like it's it's a really interesting read. Okay. Start with that conversation. Yeah. You'll enjoy the conversations. It's a great it's a great and they get it a little bit of a of god and religion talk with Joe which I thought was interesting because you know Joe's where he's at with that and so it was interesting to watch cat and him go back and forth on that and I thought it was I don't ever listen to Joe from that the whole thing or that was the first like whole job. But then again I'm you're the third person that's told me to listen to it. It's just it was an interesting conversation. I'll check it out. Super interesting. Paleo Valley makes the best meat sticks you'll find anywhere in the world. These are grass fed. They're not dry. They're delicious. They're good for your body. They're good for your gut. It's grass fed beef. It's the best on the go snack. Go check them out. Go to paleo valley.com forward slash mine pump and on that link you'll get an automatic 15% off. All right. Back to the show. Our first caller is Sarah from Canada. Hey Sarah. How can we help you? Hi guys. Thanks for your question. I'm good. Thanks. I wanted to start off by saying honestly a huge thank you through your podcast and your messaging. Honestly so many of my long-term prayer requests have been answered. So it's been a really important role in my life and I really can't thank you guys enough. Thank you so much. What can we do for you? All right. So I'll just start by reading my question. So about a year and a half ago my husband and I bought the RGP Super Bundle and we completed the aesthetic program last week. We wanted to go back to anabolic to kind of see our strength gains and honestly the strength gains were crazy. I mean my husband he's been weightlifting for 12 years and his PRs were like through the rigor which made me really excited because I was the one that convinced him to buy this program. So it is a win winner for both of us. This is this is a lesson he will continue to learn in America. However transitioning back to the anabolic program has presented challenges for me particularly in this first phase which emphasized the low rep with high weight. I find myself hesitant to increase the weight on the squat rack mainly due to fear and a lack of confidence and I struggled to maintain my grip for an effective deadlift. So my goal for March is to bulk before entering a cutting phase for the summer. Mentally I find it difficult to commit to a bulk when I feel unsure that I'm stimulating growth in my lower body. I feel like I can lift heavier but the fear of the weight and if I'm being honest tight hip flexors are holding me back. I know that I want to improve my squat and deadlift but at this stage focusing on them right now as technical skills seems counter productive to my goal of maximizing strength during this bulking phase. Instead I want to prioritize strength development now and reserve the skill development for summer. So my question is do you have a program or any recommendation that will allow me to effectively target my lower body without having to put maximal effort in squatting and deadlifting? I'm eager to make the most of this bulking phase and don't want these problems to hold me back. Yes we do we have map symmetry would be amazing for you especially since you followed the core programs anabolic aesthetic performance and aesthetic but I do want to go back let's get a little bit more specific. Yeah I have some advice for that. Let's talk about the problems that are preventing you or making you not want to focus so much on the deadlifting squat. So you mentioned grip and then fear those are the two that's basically it right those are the two that we're talking about. Yeah I mean so for deadlifting it's grip for squatting it's fear and then also like I do think I have like tight hip flexors my husband actually bought me the hip mod for balancing so I'm hoping to do that but um yeah mainly fear fear is a big one um and then just feeling tight tightness in my hips. Okay so let's start with the deadlift are you using or have you played with an alternate grip or a hook grip and using chalk have you played with those things okay. Alternate grip uh chalk no but alternating grip. Chalk will make it be different. Chalk typically you can lift uh anywhere between you know 10 to 20 more pounds uh for some people with chalk so I would use chalk do you go to a gym or do you work out at home? We go to a gym so you could buy liquid chalk because most gyms um they don't they don't like powder chalk but you could buy liquid chalk and it's actually quite effective so I would give that a shot and um and then you can also add a set or two after let's say a bicep workout or at the end of an arm workout another workout you could add a set or two of grip strengthening type exercises so isometrics you can you're already getting that with the deadlift so I wouldn't necessarily do more isometrics but I would do more grip like crushing uh type exercises you could buy a gripper and do this now I wouldn't do it to crazy fatigue because you will find that it'll it'll affect your grip in a negative way by overtraining it but I would get a nice strong gripper and I would go moderate intensity and just do a few sets you know maybe twice a week and that should have some carry over to your grip. I have something I actually have something for both the grip and the fear um and the reason why this comes to mind so quickly for me is because I totally remember this almost exact conversation with Katrina and I remember her presenting it very similar to how you did and it was like yeah I just uh one that we were having a hard time with going up in weight with the the deadlift getting her getting over 200 pounds that's where she we started to notice that and then just the fear of putting more weight on her back even though when I watched her do the five reps like at 180 which was she did she had great forms but yet just afraid to like oh what if I can't get it all the way up and I said listen give yourself permission to do singles doubles or triples and she's like what do you mean and I'm like well I know the program's laid out and we're telling you to get you know five five reps but there's nothing wrong with you putting too much weight on the bar and you actually only get two or three like that's fine like stop there if you feel like you can't get to five stop at rep two rep three but what will happen is just by getting over that fear of increasing the weight you're like going heavier and then hey I just stopped at one or I just stopped at two your body will start to adapt to holding that much weight or putting that much weight on your back and you'll one help overcome the fear and two you'll see your grip strength go up because you're now holding more weight than you've ever had before are you also are you using a squat rack two with safeties yes I am yeah okay here's what I want you to do I want you to prep because the fear is uh oh if I have to hit the safeties you know what am I going to do practice that so get under a bar with your normal weight something you can handle squat all the way down put it on the safeties get out get used to the feeling of oh my god if I can't make it up I can just put it down on the safeties and you're totally fine it's a very very safe way to fail on a rep is to put the weight down on the safeties but you have you want to practice that because you've never done that before it could be a bit terrifying like oh what am I gonna so literally I would get clients and I would teach them I taught my clients two things one how to put the weight down on the safeties and feel like that's okay and in the in the the question is how do I know when to put the weight down on the safeties when you're struggling and you feel like your form is about to change so don't wait until like you literally fail and have to drop the weight that could cause injury but when you're pushing and you're like uh oh like I'm gonna have to tweak my form just just put it down on the safeties it's not a problem at all the second thing I used to teach my clients was how to dump a barbell but if since you have safeties you don't need to learn that skill or that technique now with the hip flexors sometimes it's also weak hip flexors that are causing the problem so you might want to try this very simple movement where you lay flat on the floor with your body out flat like you're you're totally straight out and then with one leg keep the other leg on the floor just do some leg raises where you tap your heel on the floor and come back up and do a couple sets of that on each leg not to fatigue but enough to feel the hip flexor then go squat see if you notice the same tightness in your hip flexors and oftentimes uh that that seems to handle the problem yeah kind of piggybacking on that in terms of the fear and like kind of setting yourself up with the squat one thing that I actually did this with Courtney as well so we we basically would take um a weight that she could normally do pretty easily like five reps or so uh then we would rack the weight and I would add just you know five pounds on each side then we kind of work our way up and she would just acclimate so she would just like lift it off step back and then brace and go through all that then go and and re-rack it just stand just to stand just so you get used to the weight and you realize that you know you have control you have strength you you can stabilize uh appropriately and it just psychologically kind of gets you used to kind of placing that amount of load on your backs something we did very similar to that that Courtney and I did to get to it so let's say you're you know you can get 180 for five and that's kind of where you anything more than that you get fearful let's say I don't know if that's the exact number but let's say what that's what it is so then what I would do is like hey today for maps and a bulk in this phase like we're going to do something a little bit different like instead of just doing these kind of five by five or a three by five routine I'm going to have you we're just going to do the negative so I would start her off get to the 180 and then I go okay we're I'm going to put 200 on there now all I want you to do hunt is you're just going to slowly put it down on the on the safeties that's it like just put that's when we're going to do one rep that's it one rep of you just slowly setting it down and then I should I go how was that she like actually it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be like okay cool then together we'd lift it back up let her have some rest then I put 210 on there and I go okay just let it slowly come down one time that's it just one time as slow as you could set it set it down like that and how was that actually not as bad as I thought about it okay let's go to 25 I just kept doing that with her for single reps it's just get her comfortable with just feeling what decelerating with want or with heavier and heavier and heavier weight and then I said okay and once I saw like wow she could literally do like 250 and be okay and comfortable now I'm like okay we could we could do 220 and we'll get 220 on there and we'll just hey if you feel like you can't get out put it down just put it down and then and then it was then once we got past that fear is a lot better but that's a way to do that is to and again it was like giving her permit she always like well I thought I had to do five reps I'm like well no you don't have to do five reps I mean that's the programming but when you're trying to get over this hurdle of adding more weight just give yourself permission that maybe you'll only do one rep and by the way to this day this is how I lift like there's many times where I decide like I'm going into a little and I kind of want to push it I want to put some heavy weight on there and I get under there with the intent I want to do five reps but I quickly find out after rep one like oh shit I'm not getting more than two or three of these and then I just rewreck it right there yeah so I got some good news to 42 Sarah first off I want to ask you a question do you have a previous injury that you're worried about re-injuring or something like that okay there's two generally two kinds of people that would come to me as clients that would be afraid of going heavier because they don't feel confident under the weight one of them was someone who had a terrible previous injury like I tore my ACL or I hurt my back I'm really afraid of going heavy because of re-injuring it the other category was women women generally you typically don't see this with men in fact with men it tends to be the opposite where I'd be like that's way too much weight for you but typically women would say to me I'm afraid of going heavier I'm afraid of going heavier so what's the good news the good news about this is once you get over this fear the most empowering feeling you're going to get that you're going to feel through strength training is going to you're going to feel like you're going to feel so empowered that you can struggle under a weight and move it and now imagine the carry over to everyday life and this is just again you still see this with with men and women where men tend to be encouraged to struggle under heavy objects women tend to be discouraged once you practice this in the gym and you get you get used to it and you and then you can really feel your capacity that's what's empowering is you're underestimating your capacity because of the fear you'll get a more accurate more accurate understanding of what your capacity is and boy is that empowering it's going to feel amazing once you practice this and get used to your body responds like never before and then your results are going to be ridiculous it's you're going to put muscle on you unlock like a whole new level of training so yeah once you get that psychology down so really it's ritualizing it and you get over the fear the more you practice all the stuff that we're talking about do you do you so symmetry I think would be a good program though to go with do you have that because we send that to you I don't have that no all right um that'd be amazing yeah we'll shoot that over to you yeah follow that one and then keep your eyes open for the one that's coming after that because I think that one's going to be even better oh snap yeah yeah okay that's pretty mysterious yeah I don't know what's happening all right I just have one quick question I hope that that's okay that's good go ahead Sarah I have like so he got me the butt butt mod the quad mod and the hip pain mod are those okay to do like on off days or how do I incorporate them so the mods so the hip pain mod you can do that yes that's that's correctional exercise the butt mod or the other like body part mods what you would do is you would replace the exercises in your program that target those areas with the mod uh programming now I will say this with map symmetry don't use any of the mods yeah just follow it follow map symmetry to a t yeah if you're going to use the mod do it when you go back through anabolic or when you go back through aesthetic or or even performance but with symmetry follow symmetry don't don't modify it okay and is symmetry like because I am mentally preparing for a bulk for this last month before summer is it okay to do that like am I gonna all see results yeah all of our programs are strength training base so all of them would be appropriate in either a bulk or a cut what you'll find with symmetry you're gonna build muscle you're gonna build strength but you're gonna build more of it uh in the areas that are um unsymmetrical so we've seen dexa scans for example with people who followed map symmetry and they'll gain five pounds of muscle but then when they do the dexa scan they see like oh wow my left side you know was behind my right and so most of muscle gain was on the left side so nothing's more balanced so you're gonna notice that in your physique but also in your performance uh because that's what the program's designed for but yeah it's a it's a great program to follow in a bulk why don't we have Doug put her in the forum too so we we can stay in touch with you just go through this because we got a couple I feel like we gave you like five different things we're working on here so I'll have Doug put you in the private forum if you're in there you're not in there are you no I'm not that would be amazing yeah we'll put you in the private forum and then as you're going through this process you can just tag us and ask us any questions let us know yep that's great you got awesome all right thank you guys I appreciate the help thank you all right okay what percentage of 27 okay cool I'm glad you had that ready to go that's awesome let's see how close I don't know I knew exactly what the question no no what percentage of wives started listening to mine pump because of husbands and what percentage of husbands are listening because of why I feel like it's a much higher percentage of husbands that started listening because of why I hear that all the time oh I definitely I definitely think that for sure I mean think about it a pot are a lot of our podcast is giving direction is yeah so men are terrible at taking direction so it's more way more likely that a wife found us and then has slowly convinced the husband yeah and I'd I'd be willing to bet that that's like it's a 50-50 shot they can do it because I think half the husbands would probably dramatically benefit from listening but just in spite that my wife told me to listen I'm not going to do I don't need that I don't know what I'm doing what are these guys yeah why are you listening to them I'm sure we'll get some comments I need to confirm if you're if you are a wife listening and you've tried to get your husband to listen how many of you have had the stubborn husband that refuses to and how many of you guys it's because any looks at the picture and he sees Adam's face he's like oh that's why you know what she said though about fearing like lifting heavier super common definitely I mean this is something that female clients used to talk about all the time but boy when they get over it it is like they open a new door it just feels this I personally I felt tremendous value myself remember when we all first started hanging out I had told you guys this so I've been what I trained 10 15 years before we all first started hanging out and I had never trained singles doubles or triples ever like so that was a big like think step for me was just getting like going like oh I can do three reps and actually get a good workout doing three reps and just giving myself that permission to do that low of a rep range obviously if you know you only got to get a couple you're like okay well if I do this much for five I could easily do 20 more pounds for two or three giving yourself that permission to do that allow me it's a different feel yeah and then you get acclimated to feeling that kind of weight on there and now you're more confident with it going forward our next caller is Alicia from Virginia Alicia how's it going how you doing Alicia afternoon wow this is really cool um so I'm a little sorry we'll start stuck here and start off right now um but Justin I wore my still emote shirt today because I love it I'm 37 years older than I still mosh pit so I thought you would appreciate that all right you the proud Sal and I will get a sandwich we'll be back well actually Adam I watched your warrior it's kind of beat up on the wizards last night I was at that game oh you were there oh yeah yeah it's uh it's a little bit stuck I just I go to watch all the other teams it is what it is we like you yeah we we dumped Jordan pull on you oh yeah mm-hmm big boys on that game that's for sure um so I'll get started and I'll I'll read my question but I wanted to thank you guys first for one episode in particular I've been listening to you guys for probably like six or seven years now but um it was like this past fall when you had John Delaney on for the how to live a non-anxious life like I'm somebody that has struggled with anxiety since like before it was trendy to have anxiety and I was I finally like I sent that episode to my husband who doesn't understand it and it literally was like a pivotal turning point in our marriage because he finally could like understand all the things that I've always tried to say so I'm really grateful for that thank you that's awesome love John um so I will get into my question here um basically kind of the premise of it is that I've been competing in Olympic weightlifting now for about like six or seven years I'm 37 years old I've got three kids um and I'm ready to kind of like take a step back from competing for a little bit I love my sport I've been grateful that I'm good enough that I've been able to compete with kind of like the 18 to 25 year olds this entire time and strength has always been something that's really important to me like back in the early 2000s when everybody wanted to look like Britney Spears like I saw a china wrestle in the WWE and was like amazed at her arms and just wanted to be fit and strong and Olympic lifting has really allowed me to get to that level but mom life is kind of like it needs to step up and be more important I want my kids to have their time to shine and stuff like that and I just really don't have like the two plus hours a day to kind of keep training to keep competing at like a national level so my question kind of revolves around what do you think or would suggest would be the best way to kind of maintain the shrink that I've spent the last like 15 16 years building even when my volume and intensity isn't what it used to be because there's a lot of lifts that I are a lot of numbers that I've hit but I'm really proud of and I'm understanding that you know some of those will come down or whatever but like I still want to be able to back squat through 15 and even if I'm not having such my high volume all the time yeah great great okay so competed in Olympic lifting for six years or so did you work out before that too yeah 15 years 15 total yeah yep I was always that like I was that only girl that was in the weight room when I was in high school and stuff like that so like for 20 plus years I've always always been strength training that's awesome Alicia have you seen the data on how much training is required to maintain muscle and strength once you've built it yeah I've listened I've listened to you guys kind of talk a lot about how like it's like almost like a third of the training volume or so like a seven sometimes some studies show even less seven you would be shocked and surprised how much strength you're going to maintain by training less a lot less like half as much you're going to be absolutely shocked at how well you respond in fact you might actually feel better now there are benefits to training a lot if you can handle it which is just the time being there and you're being very present especially for someone who has anxiety I'm one of those people as well so there's that that's that we're going to carve aside but in terms of like strength performance muscle in particular the muscle mass itself you won't lose it you won't lose it by working out by going from two hours to one hour a day what you would need to do with your training is prioritize effective lifts the mistake that people make is they try to double the intensity to make up for the reduction in time and volume don't do that train like you normally would what you would do is just cut the volume in half or remove exercises that aren't as important and insert them every once a while when you feel like you need to and you're going to be I'm surprised every time I do this at how well not only do I maintain but in fact I oftentimes find myself progressing and I realized wow I was actually training a little too much so to go from like how so you you training two hours a day what are you looking to do go down to one hour a day for the lesson um I think like right now that's probably like I would like to get to a spot where it's like an hour a day four times a week I do I do go to like yoga twice a week to maintain my mobility and stuff like that but it's just you know I just I don't have the time for both long sessions to maintain at that high level and I'm okay I'm totally okay with that you're fine and yeah I see I see two really good options for you either one a maps anabolic protocol two to three times a week that's it of training the full body that type of routine or a maps 15 advance where you'd so and it would really depend on what you prefer if like you like the idea of coming to the gym you know five six days a week well then I would push you in the maps 15 direction but if you're really trying to reduce the amount of time and that you're having to go to the gym but yet still maintain everything you've built then a maps anabolic two to three times a week the full body yeah do you are you gonna still be doing your your Olympic lifts or are you okay transitioning away from Olympic lifts and moving more towards like traditional strength training I would like to still be able to kind of like you know sprinkle them in every so often because I mean it is it's really fun to like you know hit a heavy clean and jerk and you know throw the barbell around and stuff like that but I'm okay stepping back run a maps 15 advance protocol and then just supplement the Olympic lifts it's literally 30 minutes a day you're doing like two maybe two compound lifts a day you could replace one of them with a power with a Olympic lift and I'll tell you look I'll tell you my personal story I went from how I typically work out to this protocol and I hit a PR in deadlifts at 43 years old they say that yeah so it's like I thought oh at first I was like wow I'm not losing any muscle this is amazing and then I was like what the hell like I'm stronger I'm getting stronger this is remarkable so I think you might be surprised you've built such a solid base on your body that it would take it would take you being completely sedentary and eating low calories for all that to go away that shift in volume is probably really going to benefit yes yeah like you're going to know it's like an immediate strength output gain it's going to be crazy this by far has been one of my favorite parts of aging like I didn't I didn't foresee this that when I got into my 40s that were all this hard work that I've done for two decades of training how much it would pay off as far as being able to maintain the strength and physique that I always I mean the amount of volume that I train at in comparison to 15 years ago is insane yet I can maintain a better physique and more strength with way way less work and it's just and it's a testament to all that hard work that you've done for all these years especially considering you've done this in like Olympic lifting like you didn't just lift for 15 years like you lift at a high level you've built a significant base that ain't going away yeah you mean you squat in 315 holy cow you know here's the other thing to consider with Olympic lifting Olympic lifting is a very special form of strength training in the sense that now all all competitive strength you know training based sports there's a high degree of technique and skill involved in the performance but that is very it's especially true for Olympic lifting so the reason why if you compare Olympic lifters to power lifters to I don't care what other strength sport that competes and actually you know lifts type events when you compare them Olympic lifters tend to work out the most and you wonder why are they working like Olympic lifters have been known to be in the gym for three hours or four hours it's not the it's not the strength and muscle stimulating effects that they're after it's perfecting the technique it's they're literally you know this you're practicing so that you can get just perfect with your lift because you know that perfection will add you know 15 pounds to the bar versus you know getting the muscles technically to be stronger or bigger so you don't need especially if you're not competing and you don't need to like have the absolute most perfect technique with your lift I mean if you've been practicing as long as you have your technique is always gonna be pretty good so long as you sprinkle them in you might not be as perfect with your skill as you were before because you're not practicing them as much but I think your skills gonna stay good and as far as like the muscle and strength component that's not going anywhere okay yeah it's like it's one of those I mean as you guys know you spend all that time with Adam you just said like building all of that and you're like man I really don't want to go that like have that go away at all and you know and there's other things too like you know I'm really anxious to you know you're physique when you're a strength-based athlete is very different than when you like transition to kind of more that bodybuilding lifting for health type thing too so like kind of just having all that information go away and bringing up some of that time and stuff it is it is something I'm really looking forward to but it's just really cool to like lift really heavy hell yeah I'm so selfish with it like I love going to the gym and stepping onto a machine like after a dude and it's still the same way down there so I just really didn't want to like have to like lose any of that at all I don't think you will you're going to be pleasantly surprised on how much you're going to be able to reduce and still be able to be that girl yep you're going to still going to be able to get in there and drop that kind of weight and literally and like Sal pointed out you may be surprised you actually might notice you reduce the volume significantly and you might see yourself get stronger which is crazy to think because how strong you already are but I think you're going to see huge benefits from it how often have you done like extensive hypertrophy training um we kind of we sprinkle it in all throughout all throughout the year based on like what meats we're doing but our hypertrophy training is more like that the 10 back squats and you know have your clean bowls and stuff like that but I do usually actually since you release the symmetry usually I do that like after a competition for about four weeks to kind of correct some of those imbalances before we kind of get back into the next training cycle so I do really I love like the flow of all of your programs and stuff like that that's why I wanted to reach out to you guys about that you know Alicia I so something just occurred to me so I like maps 15 advanced version I think that would be a great staple program for you but I do have a program that I think might scratch that competitive itch that feel that you have from performing old time better maps old time strength I thought that too it's just a lot of volume I bet you would I mean you're not going to be two hours in the gym it's not at all you'll be in the gym an hour but that I think that program especially because you have the overhead stability already from Olympic lifting oh yeah I bet you're going to do those lifts and you're going to have to learn them at first if you've never done like a bad a hell out of you but I think you're going to you're going to love the hell out of it and you're not going to be in the gym it's worth giving it a whirl yeah so yeah I'm I would totally do that yeah I love all that not like unconventional kind of training and stuff like that too so that's I didn't even I didn't even think about the old time personally yeah that's a cool personally I would like to see you do maps 15 first just so you can see what potentially reducing that much volume I selfishly want to see you do old time no I want to see I think you should be doing some crazy shit I think so too but I also think that yeah it's his point the desired outcome of this is to try and yeah I know you're being trained around and I think that just go through maps 15 one time so you can just see your body your response yes and then go to old times then yeah hit it we'll send 15 over to you oh cool thank you so much well thank you thanks for calling in thank you I appreciate it so much you got it all right yeah there's definitely part of me selfishly someone like that I want to see you do old time I know yeah she'd do some crazy background yeah yeah she would be great and it's and it is a great problem I just I think that someone there because we've all been there ourselves needs to experience a dramatic reduction in in volume you're right to see you were being a trainer I was being a but I mean that might be the perfect thing is run through maps 15 and then go through old time strength and she might and you know find out and and also to the audience it's listening like you know of course like we talk about how we've we've built these you know structures but we encourage people to modify and if I had a client like this yeah who's really proficient at Olympic lifting I would just make you know like we would have a day that's like it's all she's doing is one Olympic lift like just practicing the Olympic lift and that's a day that's a that's a lift you know I'm saying those those lifts are so incredible and in the practicing of that and doing say five to 10 sets of it like that's enough like volume for a day and she'll get especially with the base that she's built yes our next caller is Owen from Nebraska what's up Owen going on Owen hey how's it going guys thanks for having me on you got it man all you've done for me and the rest of the community thank you dude you got for us what's going on yeah I guess the summary of my question I am 21 years old I'm 63 about 200 205 pounds I've been consistently strength training for about two years I trained in high school for sports and stuff but I just didn't really see much progress and when I was about three years ago was 180 63 probably 20% body fat and now I'm like 200 pounds 16% body fat this summer I went on a cut from 200 pounds at 90% body fat down to 180 at to 9% body fat and that was the latest I'd definitely ever been in my life and then I started after I got down to 180 I started tracking my calories I was maintaining that body fat at 3,700 calories and I'm now eating 4,400 calories per day my body fat has gone up about 7% since then I currently train four times per week doing a max of 10 total working sets per session and I guess for my day job as well I'm a I'm a contractor so I I am very active all day every day and I guess my main question is why am I able to eat this much while putting on body fat and still I never feel satiated I eat 95% whole foods and I feel like I could easily eat 6,000 calories per day I played around with macros to like high protein low protein high fat stuff like that and it just doesn't really seem to help much I was just wondering what what could be causing this or what my issue is yeah the hunger part causing or the increase in body fat percentage because you went from 9 up to 16% so well hold on you're you're what you're 6,300 well how much you weight right now to 205 205 205 16% body fat's good you're 21 you lift weights four days a week and you work construction yeah yeah bro you're a moose yeah you're I don't know what you want me to do for you you're just a young stud dude what are you gonna do no I just my main question is like I just I feel like I could constantly eat like I'm always hungry like no matter how much I eat I'm just I'm just always hungry listen wait 20 years and then you'll get fat on the same scale see no you know hey listen you've got a great metabolism your testosterone's probably really in a good place yeah do you feel strong in the gym oh yeah yeah do you you're doing well bro the best I mean look if you want to crush your appetite or bring it down the best thing you could do two things one work on the discipline of dealing with cravings okay so that's that's an important one to deal with maybe not now but maybe later that'll that'll come in handy because it seems like right now you can burn off almost everything you eat but just kind of sit with the feeling yeah sit with the feeling everything done at 24 hour fast there you go have you ever fasted before yeah I guess my question was about that was about two months ago I did intermittent fast like at the beginning of the year for about a month and that has actually helped a little bit with it I definitely can't eat as much in one serving like I could eat like 400,000 calories before in one serving of whole foods but now it's definitely a lot better than what it was but yeah yeah let me get some I want to get some clarity around like what is it you want yeah like what are you concerned yeah like what it what is what is like the ideal scenario for you obviously I'm sure you want to be strong and fit and ripped but it's like are you wanting to be able to do that and not have to eat as much or you wanting to like what is your ideal goal because I'm I guess basically just just not go to bed hungry like I just want to feel satiated like yes so that's pretty much it okay so we could also play with your macros a little bit like I don't know how much you've manipulated getting more of your calories from like from fats than getting it from carbohydrates that tends to curb my appetite just recently I brought up on the show way back when we first started the guys and I all took turns kind of running through the ketogenic diet and sharing our experience I did that in the height of my bodybuilding career and so I was eating five six thousand calories a day and then I switched over to the ketogenic diet and it just was it was so hard for me to hit those calories it was so satiating then I realized when I went back to eating kind of balanced I didn't have the cravings from for carbohydrates anymore like so I didn't need as much carbs I needed to feel satiate anymore and so it made it a lot easier for me to like go to bed and not feel like I'm starving all the time and needed more I was comfortable only eating 150 200 grams of carbs where I was eating 600 grams of carbs and for that so have you kind of played with running more of a high fat diet for a little while and then doing the opposite and seeing how you feel yeah I've definitely done that I've done like as much as like 200 like 75 grams of protein per day or like even 100 or close to 200 grams of fat per day and like lower carbs or I've done high carbs you know stuff like that and a lot of like fiber too I've tried that but I mean that's helped a little bit but it really I don't know and then also to be aware of I mean I don't know how clean your diet is I know you're saying whole foods but also know you said you went from 9 to 16% body fat I doubt you did that just eating you know apples and chicken breasts so pay attention to when you eat these foods that are designed to make you to eat more and so if you're doing that that makes a big difference than you loading up all the time on steak and rice and potatoes and stuff like that too so have you connected those dots like is it all the time that I feel this way or do I notice I do that when I have protein bars and shakes and eat you know eat out and have you paid attention to that yeah I pretty much like my main diet I eat a lot of a lot of chicken ground beef steak potatoes rice I that's pretty much what I eat all day every day honestly yeah you're a moose listen yeah I know here's what I want you to do eat 250 grams of protein a day from whole natural foods keep doing what you're doing keep getting stronger lifting weights here's the important part okay get comfortable with not feeling satiated this is actually going to carry over into the rest of your life as well because life is not about feeling satiated all the time some hunger is necessary to push growth and I don't just mean muscle growth I mean personal growth as well now I wouldn't tell this to somebody who wasn't eating 4400 calories a day or whatever and doing what you're doing my conversation would be very different but for a kid like you I mean you're on fire you're crushing there's plenty of food to go around so you're not you know there's nobody starving because you're eating this much I would say get comfortable with that feeling a little bit sit with it feel it don't try to always avoid it and get rid of it and keep doing what you're doing bro 16% body fat your height and weight at your age you're you're doing a phenomenal now I will say this it's going to change as you get older I'm sure you've heard this before you're 21 when I was 21 years old I couldn't I mean I'd have to eat so much food to gain a pound on the scale it was like I thought something was wrong maybe there was a hole in my body I don't know what's going on it doesn't it's not like that anymore that's for sure so it will change but I'll say eating as much as you are if you feel good you got good libido good sleep strength in the gym is going up you feel amazing the only thing is you're just not feeling satiated I'd say just eat high protein and then get comfortable with that feeling what program are you running I kind of have my own my own program that I follow I guess because there might be this I do it's I just actually I just started I just started doing like a full body otherwise I did more of like a like a split I guess okay how many days a week are you training right now you said four four yeah maybe reduce you I mean you're already four but I just switched I just switched over to three okay yeah yeah I would I would move you to like a maps anabolic type of protocol and just see I mean there is the possibility too that with all the activity all the moving you're doing and if you were training intensely for five six days a week that your body is just trying to recover and you're not getting enough calories to do what's your what do your lifts look like what's your what is your bench deadlift and squat look like just out of curiosity strength wise you mean yeah strength I haven't really maxed I really haven't maxed out in like a year but I benched 275 year ago and I squatted 415 and I don't really deadlift a whole lot yeah yeah we're gonna hang up you're fine you're doing good bro you just you just gonna have to deal a little bit you're gonna have to deal a little bit with that feeling of of of like your body's trying to grow and build I know you don't want to gain body fat which is totally fine so this is more of a like okay you got to deal with the feeling a little bit but you're you're crushing and you're so far away from your potential you got another 10 years of muscle building ahead of you so this will be exciting this will be exciting to see and listen here's the thing don't worry about it's not like you're gonna have to eat more and more and more and more to build more muscle your body will just get better at building muscle with less calories this is what ends up happening Doug why don't you throw him maps anabolic so he has an actual follow maps anabolic do the advanced version of it or the the the the I appreciate it appreciate it man you got it yeah you got it man keep kicking ass I'll try my best don't you worry you got it man thanks Owen how many listeners are mad right now what something doesn't add up for me the the fact that he he claims that he's hungry all time which is a a clear indicator that he's probably got a fast metabolism like we all assume but yet he was able to go from nine percent to 16 percent body fat and claims it's all through Whole Foods so so it's a surplus but he's saying he's still hungry in the surplus like that's a that's a major surplus I mean that if you went from nine to 16 percent you added seven percent body fat how long we didn't ask him how long I mean even if it was over a year I mean seven percent's a big jump so yeah yeah which means you're eating in a massive surplus and then claiming you to have done that all in Whole Foods and it sounds like like he says he maintains at 3700 as what it says right there yeah and he had an idea of what his grams and stuff were so it's like he was tracking I don't know math isn't mathing yeah yeah that something that's not adding up to I mean here's what I remember being a 21 year old and training a lot of 21 year olds is that you think you know yes because you tracked one week you know what I'm saying or yeah you tracked one week or you you somewhat pay attention like those are some huge fluctuations that's a really interesting feedback you're not going out to eat out yeah there's some things about that there's some things that aren't fully adding up to me I mean nonetheless advice still stays pretty much the same exactly and you and he is doing a good job I mean he's stronger than probably all of us 50 grams of protein from Whole Foods and still being hungry that is tough yeah that is tough yeah that's and and then also to simultaneously put on that's five meals with 50 grams of protein each without counting carbs and fat I mean yeah and he said he switched over to more high protein high fat and he's tried that I mean I for me it would be like loading to like later if it's a problem for him to sleep you know and that's something like you know loading you know the end of your day a little bit more calorie wise to kind of help with that but honestly like he's just he's just a inferno I'm convinced he just wanted to tell us how much better better he was awesome yeah yeah hey guys I don't know what to do the bar doesn't hold you more weight I'm super handsome and I was like something's wrong I can eat whatever I want you know it's a big problem my instagram handle by all the all the chicks love me what do I do what if it is a what if he what if he didn't have hey what if he didn't have a parasite or something I mean I don't know why I'm so hungry you know yeah the tape when they're still getting strong and you know no he doesn't add up he's doing good yeah our next caller is Alan from Utah Alan what's happening what up Alan hey guys uh honored to be on the show with you guys thank you just uh few things for you guys um a little bit of a backstory about 10 months ago since I posted my question I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes which is was a killer for me because I've got health anxiety but a1c was 15.5 they said I maxed out the meter which was insane 29 years old I was 325 pounds and that's kind of how my health and fitness journey started was in football for a while in high school but took a lot of time off and got into drugs and alcohol which was like the downfall to everything but two years sober now and then I got the diagnosis and I was like you know what I'm gonna either die or I'm gonna change my life so I found Dr. Dr. Jason Fung I'm not sure if you're familiar with him but he's a big fasting advocate so I got on a peptide and I started fasting I did seven-day water fast at first and then was doing 42 hour fast in between eating meals a day so I dropped 80 pounds in four or five months but then I realized I was losing a heck of a lot of muscle with my body fat right so been going to the gym now consistently for two and a half months five days a week but not really getting stronger my bench press was 185 my deadlift I did a max of 115 but I just feel like I have body fat on my stomach and everywhere else and I feel like I'm at a plateau at about 215 and I've been stuck there for quite some time so I don't know if I have to go into a bulk to get the rest of that off but I'm just scared because of my diabetes that I'm going to end up eating too much and lose control of my blood sugar so okay that's kind of where I'm at you need to reverse out reduce the volume of training focus on getting strong make sure you hit your protein intake those are the those are the key things right there Don the peptide right the peptide I just read in your question you're on that the yeah so it's yeah so I started the peptide at the beginning of my whole weight loss journey as and use that with the fasting which really helped I mean I was on 2.5 milligrams and it goes up in 2.5 increments up until 15 milligrams and I only got to 7.5 and this today is actually this week was the first time I've not taken it so I was taking it for 10 months and now I've stopped because I feel like it's hindering my progress because I'm not able to eat the 200 grams of protein a day on that you know it's tough how how is your type 2 diabetes now how's your blood sugar is it a lot better so so I'll tell you guys this with what I did in about three or four months I got my A1C down to 5.3 and I'm completely off of all my diabetic medicine and to be honest with you guys that my doctor told me that they have never seen anyone with an A1C that high and we're able to get it down that low so quickly it was like a clinical record for my doctor's office so good job brilliant not sure how that happened I just put in a lot of work in that but you know now that I've done all the fasting I felt like my metabolism now is shit yeah yeah and now I'm like damn man I'm I got the weight off I don't have the muscle I want and you're in a good my metabolism is stuck here's why I like this is what this is why you're gonna do well we can yeah you sound very disciplined you did some shit that was very hard way harder than what we're about to say so you're very disciplined so just follow what we're gonna tell you right now hit your protein targets from whole natural foods eat that first in every meal so prioritize it and then follow a good strength training program which will send you we're gonna send you maps anabolic follow the three day version hit the high protein and you're gonna be fine the muscle building effects as you build muscle through doing that you're gonna see better and better blood sugar control because muscle is an it's a storage vessel for sugar is storage it stores glycogen and it's insulin sensitive so just do that right there just follow maps anabolic hit the protein targets eat it first eat in the morning high protein make sure what your morning your first meal is a nice high protein meal and the rest will take care of itself yeah I also I want to have Doug put you in our private forum too so we can keep an eye on you the the one thing that I would be concerned about is you making any sort of drastic pivots so just do exactly what Sal said get in the forum and then I want you to check in with us at least once a month okay if not every two weeks or so check in check in with us let us know how you're feeling let us know how it's going don't make any drastic changes from what he said without first like you know telling us how what's going on now one one thing I'll add is try to make fatty fish or fish a staple in your diet just because of the anti-inflammatory effects of the fatty acids so sardines are great for that good quality salmon is good for that so try to throw that in once a day if you can or four days a week just for the anti-inflammatory effects there seems to be a connection between that and improving people's you know A1C and improving people's blood glucose or insulin sensitivity so that's the only other thing I'd add but if you just did that right and as you start to get stronger you're going to get a better response with all of your your blood measurements and do you guys think that I should be scared of carbohydrates as a you know even though I'm such a controlled diabetic I know it could be beneficial to my workouts but would there be an optimal time here's maybe digest those around the workout hydrates or the types you yeah around the workouts but okay so I'll give you a couple pieces of advice that'll help with that when you eat your meals eat the protein first eat the vegetables second and then eat the carbohydrates third so that'll help with potentially overeating carbohydrates the second thing is if you do a five to ten minute walk post eating that makes a significant difference in how much glucose your muscles and your body sucks up so right after you eat just go for like a five or ten minute walk makes a big makes a pretty big difference and then the third thing I'll say is the larger carbohydrate meals you could do one you know two hours before you work out and then your post workout meal and that that should also help but other than that I think you'll be I think you'll be totally fine I don't think you should fear carbs if you follow that order sweet thanks guys and I really appreciate that you got it man and congratulations on being sober bro and I will say yeah two years sober and I do appreciate you guys and you guys have brought up like and spoke about other things besides health and fitness and the sobriety aspect and also you guys is like personal experiences with marijuana which is like the only thing that I medical cannabis user and you guys have like really opened my eyes and like being able to focus on you know being able to take a break and healthy breaks and and learning how to just focus on balance of everything and you guys really help instill that in me because I don't got a lot of like like support in my life so to have you guys to fall back on every day I'll tell you my wife she complains every time I she comes out in the morning and she hears like all you and your boys again this morning and I'm like I'm sorry it's every morning so yeah it's been it's been nice to have you guys and my health anxiety the last week or two I haven't been going to the gym so like the opportunity to speak to you guys has now gotten me a little bit more motivated to get this started so it's kind of been a blessing I really believe in Jesus and I think that this has been like really ordained for me and it felt like the right time for me so thanks guys that's awesome I appreciate hearing that thank you so much looking forward to seeing you in the forum make sure you say what's up and you keep us posted on how it's going right now yeah yeah I'm really excited to be involved with you guys have a good day thank you yeah man well that's a tremendous success story yeah tremendous success story I mean to go from that scare and you know using drugs to where he's at now complete 180 man and you know he's still look you know for people listening right now like he stopped the drugs he lost the weight there's still some demons he's dealing with and that's why it's a challenge for people because they get rid of the ways that they used used to cope yeah and so there's still some demons to deal with but he's going about it the right way this is such a phenomenal success story I'm excited to see how yeah I know especially with the discipline that he has if we get him on the right track with like the protein and strength and like hopefully he's going to see a dramatic difference that's coming here look are you a hard gainer do you find it difficult to pack on muscle we have a hard gainer guide it's totally free you can find it at mindpumpfree.com you can also find us on Instagram Justin is at Mind Pump Justin I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam