 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go Might pop might pop with your hosts Salda Stefano Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews Hey, man. That was a great conversation with Dr. Jordan shallow the muscle doc always always he's like He got a beast from X-Men. He's beast. I swear to God. Dude. He's just gonna eat him blue He's like yeah as hell. Yeah, and then super super smart. Yeah, very very smart guy Mobility X a great contrast. Yeah, especially in regards to performance like when it comes to training and lifting and well I love to meet movers and shakers in fields and in he's he is a powerlifter, right? I mean he is I was just trying to move and shake he threw and threw a powerlifter, right? The dudes the dudes pulling like close to set. He's over 700 over 700 pound deadlift He's got a fucking 600 pounds the guy's a fucking animal, right? Mm-hmm, and what's so unique about a pistol squad? Well, yeah, right? So his mobility is incredible for his size like to me like It's one thing to be a guy who's like super hyper mobile or a guy that's super strong But those are very be both to be both it takes a lot of discipline Yeah, a lot of discipline and to see a guy like him move and it's obvious, right? Because how he's very intelligent. He has a very methodical way of Approaching his training. He hasn't bought into the hippy stuff yet. Yeah, be honest Well, we did a whole YouTube series also with him at mine pump TV, which you'll see we have one That's already up and we we're gonna be doing some more with him But the information that he presents is you know, but we've been doing this for a long time It's not common anymore to be really blown away by someone with their information especially when it comes to Movement and Dr. Jordan shell is one of those people that kind of blows us away You know, he showed some stuff when it in regards to the hips and how to isolate different parts of the hip flexors and When the depending on the positioning of the joint which muscles are being activated which ones aren't really really good stuff So we had a great conversation with him. He also has a podcast. He has a new podcast. You could check out It's called Rx radio. So the letter R the letter X apostrophe D Radio his Instagram page is awesome. Especially if you're a personal trainer I highly suggest you go to his Instagram here in a great detail. That's awesome and follow it Yeah, it's the underscore muscle underscore doc. His website is the muscle doc calm And that's pretty much it so without any further ado here We are talking to Dr. Jordan shallow aka the muscle doc the beast Like is there a trigger for you as far as like how I feel yeah, I try and be ahead of that So like if it's preemptive Yeah, so I try it like I said I all I because I track and I pay attention to my diet pretty closely Especially right now. I'll look and be like oh shit like I've had like zero dirt dairy or anything in my diet whatsoever Like this would be a good time for me to do that now Sal was probably the most sensitive gut wise So I know he he's constantly like being told by the south. Yeah, he's a little tummy But I try and stand just in tune. I Reveal it for him sometimes. I have really good shits like all the time and it's a it's a yeah It's an incredible process for me. We should we should do like a series on Instagram where we post our poops Oh, yeah, and then people can guess whose poop is who Justin's easy You think it's that easy easy bro. It's stuck. It's stuck to the side After you flush, you know, it's me, you know for sure because it looks like there was a car chasing With the going down. I wonder if you just you have such heavy shits. I think it's so heavy It's all those feelings. It's all those feelings contained in this poop You gotta carry all that in your body. I just got shit. Yeah, you know every culture every old culture that's Connected to longevity has some kind of staple Fermented food in it fermented foods are are quite important for overall health One of the things that we lack in Western diets is fermented foods Now it's just like a quality of life thing because it's like this is the problem I have like I've lived in California for six years now and this is all this this like where were you from originally? originally Canada, St. John's Newfoundland. Okay is like born grew up in Windsor, Ontario Southwestern, Ontario basically like Detroit Windsor, okay So is California like way more hippie than where you were from? If people drank kombucha where I'm from they won't drink it for long. Like it's There's no sushi. Okay. The second leading cause of death where I'm from is hitting a moose with your car Okay, oh wow to give you a level of like where we're out on the hippie scale. Yeah, it just doesn't exist Yeah, but it's we ain't a boot. Yeah Fermented foods are very important for lot for overall health for overall gut health. Yeah, and I mean obviously it's the way we evolve Right, we evolved eating all foods and we fermented foods a lot of times to preserve them But what do you think the lifespan will be? How long do you think you'll live for? Oh, I see what do you mean? Like I mean How much is it gonna add to your life? Yeah, like I mean that's a question is a quality No, okay, exactly. Well, that's what it is So it to me like and we talk about this on the show is that it's not about doing certain things to Increase your lifespan. It's more about increasing Your your current life right now as far as overall hell. Yeah, the quality of your life right now Because when you I tell you what when my stomach is all right like I like a Shit very well, and it's very regular and normal and it does but when my diet is off Like that one of the first places that my body tells me is my stomach like it Gassy I get bloated my shits are uncomfortable like I mean and those type of things You I think a lot of Americans take that shit for granted and don't really pay attention to it They just think it's just normal You know how big the mark and then you're just talking about gastro issues and that's a thing Of course the gut has that's a very cool. That's a very easy one to read like oh, I have diarrhea. Oh, I'm constipated Oh, I have gas yeah, but there's lots of ways that you can you know poor gut health manifest Skin is one of them Autoimmune issues have been connected of course brain fog and fat loss and muscle building even those are for our fitness listeners All these things are connected to it and if you look at the the typical Western diet It's just it does not it is not Conducive to good gut health. It's actually the opposite everything sterile especially for you to high-processed diet And then the amount of antibiotics Both real actual antibiotics that were exposed to that we get from our doctor to the type of antibiotic residues We have in some of our food to things that are not necessarily classifies it as antibiotics but have Antibiotic actions like glyphosates, which are the herbicides that they spray all over, you know GMO foods and stuff So if you for example, you spray glyphosates on bacteria, it has antibiotic effects And so the gut diet and they've been studying this now for a few generations where they'll look at the gut Diversity of people and it's getting less and less diverse and much of the gut Diversity that you get comes from your mother. So your mother has less Diversity then you have less and then your kids have less and so on and we're seeing this huge spike and an illness and stuff So very very interesting stuff, but yeah fermented foods are very important But it's not just dairy dairy is how we most people will eat Yogurts and get their fermented foods from yogurts, but you know kimchi sauerkraut pickles, you know Kombucha, which is a Japanese fermented, you know tea. There's lots of different types of fermented foods I know in I believe in Icelandic cultures They will take fish and they'll they'll like bury it and like ferment the hell out of it and then eat it And it's supposed to be a staple food And I know everybody makes a gross face because it sounds disgusting But it's something that that's part of their culture and it has been for a long time And when you examine these these cultures that have really good That are old first of all and they eat their traditional diets and tend to have better longevity Or most of these cultures have better longevity in the typical Western lifestyle You find these common practices and all of them So like, you know Chinese diet traditional Chinese diet metatraining diet, you know Northern European diet that had no contact with each other will have these similarities and one of them is They are some kind of fermented food that they eat On a regular, you know, semi-regular basis. It's pretty interesting No, do you think I mean you guys all eat healthy though, right? Like do you think that's at some point? It's an overcorrection. I think absolutely And I'll tell you right now I can overdo anything for sure when I first was introduced to it and I was like, oh man It felt so good. Oh, so then I would I start doing having one like almost every day Yeah, and then I caught myself like oh shit I almost had to have one in order for my stomach to feel right and I'm like that can't be right And so what's like gluten right like that's the thing like if you avoid it forever Like that's not a solution at all because if you get exposed what you're fucked Yes, and we talk about this a lot too, right like different types of stresses We got we just I mean Sal was speculating not too long ago And which was ironic because we ran into a doctor who just wrote a book on it about dehydrating Yeah about intentionally going without water for a while which just sounds so insane because we tell people all the time You got we don't get enough fluid more fluid more water more water more water And I agree with that that most people grossly under drink water But you know for someone who does drink it all the time very regularly It's probably beneficial for you to go without it sometimes. So I think all stress intermittently is is Good for the place for it. Well, isn't that I mean they say that true about psychological stress, too, right? I mean you got to imagine the parallels are probably one and one because these what's that stoic guy I mean, I'm big enough listen to Ferris's podcast all the time and he talks about basically think like go live homeless for like two days Oh, yeah, and then if you're fine after that and it's like well if your girl doesn't call you back then, you know Life's not that bad we bring it to the absolute worst it could be and if you can manage that then your day-to-day is like no, right? Well, I mean you new perspective. I mean modern Western societies have solved Some of the problems that have plagued humanity forever, right like infection childbirth You know get injury acute illness like we've solved a lot of this we kick polio's ass We did that was big yeah, and we've solved a lot of these things and yet we have mental illness and anxieties and Paranoia's and all these interesting psychological issues that are growing. They seem to be growing And of course obesity which is which you know is very obvious and I think it's because we Solved a lot of these problems, but we went so far in one direction that we didn't realize that there were these unintended consequences because the human body and brain did evolve under certain circumstances and conditions and that doesn't mean you have to live Exactly like that because if you did you would die when you were 35 of you know tooth decay or something weird like that but because we evolved under these conditions the human body It evolved to thrive with some of these stressors, and if you don't introduce these stressors You have some problems fasting is a fantastic example of this and they find that and again in all these old cultures They all practice fasting in some form or another and in fact all the major religions have incorporated fasting in some way I mean the ancient philosophers talked about fasting and how it was beneficial for health and now we know that when you fast and you do it properly You you reduce your your risk of things like cancer That you actually Here's an interesting one that I read not that long ago when you fat when they do studies on prolonged fast And these with with healthy people so they'll fast people for like 10 to 14 days, which is very long Don't recommend it unless you're doing it into the supervision of professional But they'll they'll do this with with with healthy people There'll be no detrimental effects on the individuals, but their livers will shrink like 20% 30% So the organ sizes actually shrink and then when they refeed the organs grow back to normal size And what's happening is your their bodies are literally killing off Cells and it's the older cells that they're killing and when they rebuild them, you know they stimulate stem cell production when they rebuild the organs. It's like they're younger and Now they're connecting that to reduce risks of cancer In fact, I know the FDA right now is reviewing the use of fasting to be used as an adjuvant therapy with chemotherapy Because they they have seen now and I think all the way up to phase two And I think they're in phase three trials of this chemo therapy with fasting Reduces the need for the dose of chemotherapy. So like half the much I'll give an example This is not I don't know what the numbers are but like half as much chemo with fasting far As effective or more effective than twice as much chemo without have they done a control with ketosis Keto so here's the thing with ketosis when they compare so dr. Valter Longo is comparing As is looking at something called he calls a fasting mimicking diet and when they do studies on keep a ketogenic diet Against fasting ketogenic diets provide some of the benefit, but not all okay fasting is actually far more effective Then just the ketogenic diet for treating certain autoimmune issues like Parkinson's for example The problem is fasting, you know when you're telling somebody who's sick Hey, we're gonna have you not eat for five. Oh heck tell the average person and I eat for two days like good luck You're not gonna get very very good participation So dr. Valter Longo is looking at something called a fasting mimicking diet And I don't know all the details, but what from what I've learned It's something like 500 calories a day and it's mostly fats that you're eating and it's very very low And it's like for seven days and it's the it's much easier to follow and the benefits So far are the same from what they're finding to fasting from like testing against cancer Testing against autoimmune issues and all these other metrics that they're testing against because like when they scan for cancer Like a pet scan is basically where is the glucose being like up? Look in your body at a more rapid rate and that's sort of the cell proliferation that they're like, okay That's growing too fast. Yeah, let's cut off glucose So I didn't know if there was like a caloric dependency to that or if just like no just cut the cord So if you cut if you cut and there's a I can't I can't believe I can't remember the name of the effect Is it the warburg effect? I think it was identified a long time ago that cancer cells had the inability to Run off of ketones So they they're defunct in that in that sense. There's sugar monsters and this is why when you do a scan They'll inject you with glucose and then boom they suck up all the glucose. We actually asked We had dom diagostino. So dr. Dom diagostino like leading researcher ketogenic diet He was the one that did all the the training and research for the navy seals One of the questions I remember we asked him and I don't think this is the one that's about to air, right? So we asked him if you had someone close to you that got diagnosed with cancer Like what would that protocol look like right now today? Like what would you say and he's like ketogenic diet fasting and CBD so those three things were he's like cannabinoids. What else did he say? The chambers were they hyperbaric hyperbaric chambers, but yeah, um, you know But here's the thing with cancer cancer is very very clever. So if you cut all the glucose out You will see and this is by the way, this is completely established. There's no debate You will see for the most part tumor shrinking in some cases Complete remission, but it's not a cure because cancer is very very clever and cancer will produce its glucose from Amino acids in your body. It'll feed off of glutamine will feed cancer like crazy Um, it'll you it'll it'll figure out ways to feed itself sometimes, but you can definitely weaken it weaken its ability by eliminating glucose and Here's another one Reducing protein intake quite a bit. I mean a lot of people think I'm gonna eat a high protein diet Low super low carb high fat to while, you know if I have cancer No, all that protein will get turned into glucose So you actually have to go like medical ketogenic diet, which is like 90 fat and just enough protein to keep you from You know just to get the essentials basically so very very interesting stuff Yeah, so jordan, what got you into the fitness industry? Uh, I mean like lifting or the fitness industry. I don't know start from the beginning I used to play hockey back in canada and go go figure So I used to just train to get better in the off season. Were you lifting back then too? Uh, so I started lifting when I was 15 So I was like a short little fat kid and then I swear to god in the summer between the ninth grade and the 10th Great, so it's what you guys do different freshman sophomore. Is that right? Yeah Still getting used to like the us parlance you guys. Oh, how does it go? Tell me how it goes. We go ninth grade. Yeah 10th grade. Okay. Do you want do you want to know what's next 11th grade 12? There's never any talk of like freshman sophomore like I'm up at stand for it Like oh, I'm like a sophomore like it's great. Yeah, what grade are you? Yeah, exactly. What grade? Well, it's in its first year second year third year fourth year and then masters and their phd Got it got it. Yeah, so started started working out for hockey when I was 15 I had a trainer through like a commercial gym now I'm sure it's the same here because you guys are commercial gym, right? If you when you buy the sessions you buy the sessions with the gym not with the trainer So the trainer gets gone. You're still your money's still locked in. Yeah So I was the real sports specific guy played in the OHL Which is like the baseball equivalent would be like triple a ball. He's a good player I was like, okay, perfect. He kind of knows the ropes and we were doing all the The calisthenics and the proprioception stuff and that was a goalie. So Trying to get really athletic and fast and all that and then he got canned and then Another trainer at the gym sort of picked up picked up my my case sort of speak and I got a text from this guy I don't random number didn't know what it was showed up like Whatever his number was and said your mind bitch And I was that was the tax and I was like I literally got a message from my one trainer Saying like hey, bro, like things didn't work out a good life. Like, uh, sorry, they're gonna pass you on I don't know who you're gonna go with. Good luck. You know, if you never need anything Good luck. Yeah, and then I get like a text. I'm in class. You're my bitch. Now. I mean, he's one of my best friends in the entire world Um, like I'm god's father to his third daughter And but he's he's beast like massive. I was maybe like 180 pounds like pretty athletic I could move a little bit by the time I finished with him, but My new trainer now, uh, luke, he had no idea about hockey like couldn't skate for his with his life dependent on it And he's like trying to like get the ins and outs And he's a smart really like tuned in trainers from like the physiology and the biomechanics. Okay He pieced together a program that actually looked really similar to what I was doing before But I would stick around I didn't have a car of like weight after our sessions and he was like, hey Do you mind like giving me a spot and this guy it was like, I mean, I've seen him put four up five bench for 10 Yeah, he's and he was like a 205 pounds. Oh, wow. Yeah. He's a specimen like so when I got into So I would hang out with him and like spot him until mom came and picked me up It was embarrassing like he was cool. He had his own car. He lived in his own apartment like fuck this guy's the man And after a while, he's like, hey man, you want to just jump in like Like we'll do our workouts and then so I was doing like an hour like balls to the wall hit training and then going an hour like bodybuilder bro session was like Fuck and then our sessions expired But he didn't really have anyone to live with and he needed a spot and all that He's like, do you want to just like keep on working out but like keep it off the books sort of thing I was like, yeah, sure. And then slowly like the calisthenics and the interval train just slowly fucked off And then he's like, I got an idea. Why don't we get you so big that you don't have to move in the net? I'm like, yeah I went from I mean, I when I was playing juniors back in canada I mean I the head was like a website with all the stats and I was the heaviest player in the league Nine teams two conferences by like 20 pounds like 245 Whoa, you went from 180 something This is over the course of years. Yeah, this is like two three years working out with this guy I mean I was young when I started and I played juniors when I was 19 19 or 20 and by the time I got into play juniors I was It was about 245 Like it was to the point we played this playoff game and In the playoff series the refs get the whole series, right? And same with Stanley Cup same with NBA finals the refs take on a whole series Right, they're not they're not traveling around And so at the beginning of each game we'd warm up at the red line The goalies would go and stretch and I stretched right by the red line next to the other team So like the center ice and the other goalie did the same intimidation thing going on You know, just it's very mental like it's very like Ritualistic like goalies if you've ever met a goalie from canada like the better the goalie the weirder they are And like by a lot I I wasn't good, but I was relatively normal like you weren't weird enough I wasn't honestly. I wasn't weird enough like I couldn't imagine how strange the guys in NHL are Like they must be just like I know a couple kids that went went to the NHL and it's like Those guys are weird Like they're cat guys their cat guys best way to describe like NHL goalies is a probably cat guys. Yeah So I've warmed up and we were getting like we're a terrible team so we'd get our asses kicked So game one the other goalie comes up next to me and we don't really know each other They're from the northern division. We were from the south And he's like, hey, you know if they haven't pulled you by the third period Do you want to go like basically insinuating like we're going to get our asses kicked and do you want to fight? And just meet at center ice Yeah, and like the refs kind of like, you know They intervene the red line in warm-ups to make sure that fights don't start before the game And the ref was right there when when the guy said this and he just laughed like hysterically laughed because the refs Warm up right outside of our dressing room So I spend I'll get half dressed in my gear go out in like a beater with a tennis ball And just throw the tennis ball against the wall try and like dial in a little bit And so you get to know the refs a little bit and the refs laugh when he heard that And then he goes, I'll tell you what kid go home Go check this kid's stats like height and weight because when we got gear on we all look the same Like we all look the exact same size if you still want to go next game I'll tell the other refs and we'll let you go puck drop I'll tell the rest. Don't let him go. Goals are gonna fight off. Oh, so he has no idea. He has no idea I was 5 11 245 And I went home. I looked him up and he was like, man, maybe 170 So, I mean again, goldies are really like ritualistic So he goes to the red line the next game and I was like, oh, shit Grew some stones and he was head down and the referee comes up to him. So we doing this Shakespeare to go online Shakespeare He's like, oh, so you check that. Yeah, and it's just nothing not a word. We still got our asses kicked. I'm like, fuck I'll take any But yeah, so that was that was pretty much up until I moved here It was just like very bodybuilder style training But I mean you age out and sports really quick and you don't really realize it until it's like you're 21 You're going, oh, fuck. I should have been the NHL at 16 years old. No one told me So then I just kept training training training and Now as far as like the transition into the like call it the fitness industry Craig Craig was my first introduction. No way. Well, that was how I first met you, right? Yeah. Yeah me and me and autumn Craig I used to work out with Craig Um, he came here. Where'd he come here from? New York Yeah, yeah, so he came in here and I was working out at the gold and Santa claire I don't know what the hell it's called now, but American barbell now, sure And I was working out when it was when it was still gold Even that like ages me a little bit like oh back in my day like Um, and I remember kids I was going to school with like when I was in chiropractic college Oh, man, like I have my bodybuilding.com and to me He was just like he's just another duster in my way at the gym Like granted Craig's a strong dude and for like a men's physique guy Like he's the branch warrant of men's physique. Well, this is how great Yeah, he is. He's just like just goes for it. I'm like, there was times where I'd squat with Craig I'm like, fuck man. This guy's like five hundo like no joke. Why are you wearing board shorts? But yeah before I'm like met him, met him He was just like all the all the guys from our school like I go from like take pictures and all that I'm like, fuck whatever man headphones in and I pulled like the hey, that was your last set, right? He was like on something that I wanted to use and right from there. He's like, I fucking like this guy I got to talking to him and then I actually did online sort of fitness blogging for him And Craig's fire nice fitness was one of his projects for a bit. So my last year at school Because he was bitch about all the time like, oh, fuck I gotta like write all this content And I was reading some of his stuff. It's like Craig maybe I maybe let me take the wheel on some of these and so every every Wednesday It was it was to the point where I didn't even send it to him We just gave me the login to the website and I put it right in the back And that was my first exposure to it And it was like I mean I I wouldn't be I wouldn't have the practice I have I wouldn't have the following and the online business that I have without them because it's like He really Showed me the road basically I've come to realize every like bodybuilder every person in the fitness industry Is amazing at leaning their phone up against shit to videotape themselves or like take pictures of themselves Like all the bodybuilder to have oh, let's take a picture and there's no one around like Oh, I got it and there's like a protein shaker cup leaned up against some other thing And the phone is like on a perfect angle and there's a timer like three two Like it's on instagram like that. Um, so that was my first real exposure in Into like the fitness industry and then and craig is the master at this because he's a one man show One of the most so I my experience. This is uh, I met craig like I don't know how many years ago now but through a mutual friend And I was uh, even though I was in the men's physique bodybuilding world I didn't hang out with any of them I didn't connect with any of them and I remember my buddy like trying to tell me like Oh, you're gonna like this, dude You know, you guys are just like each other this and that and when he rolls up and I recognized him right away I'm like, oh, I've no I've seen this motherfucker before like and has like a oh bodybuilding.com. That's what's happening He's subliminal man. He's fucking everywhere. Yes, you realize you know who he is He's online and you're just like you're on some random like, you know Ask jeeps and craggers like in the corner Almost almost any time that I google like a an exercise a muscle or something like that one of his images bodybuilding series Yes, he's all all over everywhere right so so I recognized him right away And then when we got to talking I actually his business mind is what I was Totally right away. I was like, oh fuck this guy gets it like I am the same I was like, I didn't think there was anybody else out there that got into this for the reason of building a business I was like, yes, exactly Like I saw the writing on the wall really early that there's no money in it Like it's and and to win a fucking plastic trophy who gives a shit like so we I I met him got that from him We hit it off right away And then I was blown away by like man, this motherfucker does everything on him his own he videos He edits he writes all his content. So that's crazy. I did not know that was like your first real introduction into the fitness Yeah, and it's funny because he and when we started working out together He had mentioned you guys and mentioned the podcast and no joke when the first time I heard mine pump Is my mid workout. He was telling me how he was like going over to record with you guys and stuff I literally hand to go. I thought he said mine comp podcast. I was like, bro Oh, hold on like you don't want that kind of association. I know you're not a history buff, but like I was like, wait say that again. It's like mine. I was like, oh, okay. It's like, I didn't know you Like this is where they got the first story My struggle I like terrified That's not the association you want to be making but not the best business moves So yeah, you talked about that and then learning to be a one man show from him and just kind of I mean we went down to the fit expo and I just I fucking hate fit expos like the dumbest things like Even now, you know, what's funny? We so that's like a hundred percent my experience with fit expos I didn't get I love the paleo fit. The paleo was what? Oh It's because you're a hippie bro. That's range. I died a thousand times. Yeah. Yeah, you probably would you probably I would eat one of them. Did you watch the video? I watch I watch your I follow your story I follow you guys actually but like when you guys were there, it's just like oh, man when the world when the world ends I'm eating those motherfuckers first That's how that goes down. It's like those are the weak We kick off The paleo thing for me is just it's too much Or do they have like strength and powerlifting conventions that are like that? So no, no Well, the nice thing is so when I you guys just aren't organized Yeah, it's it's weird. We uh, but you're not good at the whole get together Yeah, you're not you guys power lifters aren't good with the whole instagram and promoting Getting there. It's I mean, it's definitely but I think they're heeding the warnings of like they're learning from the bodybuilding community's mistake Like it's definitely it's a really small group. I mean, there's a ton of people. What was that whole juggernaut? Like that whole like I mean, that's business. Yeah, those guys are so like they've they've assembled like You know, they try and cover everything. They have a couple phd's They have a physical therapist Quinn Hanneck runs like a clinical athlete. They they're organized Like they're as far as the subculture goes They're probably one of the most recognizable because they branch out, you know, the big and usa USA w's use USA weightlifting They got the nutrition stuff You know, they're all like production quality and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, they're down in orange county But yeah, back to the expo thing powerlifting involvement in the expo is like they'll compete Right, so I competed in the Arnold Classic Australia. That's at the Arnold Classic Australia expo So it's like the bit the main stage is there and then you got the chicks selling protein or whatever the fuck and then Powerlifting off to the side, but man, we were we were the main event because it's like, oh, these guys are doing something Well, that's yeah, to me when you go to those expos, that's the most intriguing part is the power lifters It's like I have something to watch like I don't want to stand. Yeah Yeah, that's always been my experience is like, what are they even doing? Like you don't do anything other than stand there and you know, you gotta wait I had a rich piano Oh, did you see his whole I did and I mean that's just a surprise. No one like that's billy bush on the bus, man Like everyone knows that conversation happens. Like to me that was like, well, yeah Fuck, did you think this guy was like marching on Salem like fucking serious? Oh, I mean, it's funny because he set up like it means everywhere I when I competed in Australia I literally got on the platform before just to like kind of get my bearings And I'm like if I can see that fucking 5% banner when I'm lifting that's going to throw me off to no end And they're like, it's the biggest fucking man. You've ever seen your life It's I mean if I was a parole officer, I would just like post up there all that I just do like my check-ins there Every fucking neck tattoo like degenerate Like he's out on stips is in that fucking line like he's such a jackass Well, which is even crazy to me that like you said like why I mean the fact that people are getting so surprised about it Let's just like come on dude. Yeah, what would you think like? Well, it's surprise. I'll tell you why it's surprising because people sometimes forget that there are some people that talk Like that. Sure. I mean and it's the very fact that it's surprising I think is a good thing because if it wasn't shocking that'd be a little more telling Why are you following him if you know it'd be a little more telling But he's not donald sterling like he's not like an 80 or a billionaire But it's at the same time. It's like you gotta you gotta see the writing on the wall And he's just looking weirder and weirder the guys it's like more is it more and more synth all or what's going on You know what man? I go back and forth and now I think I've swayed to my final decision on him It's like I initially thought like fuck. What a businessman Like he saw such an opening in a market for this on like unrepresented or under represented Like following like how many how many gyms around here and maybe not so much But you go to Monterey road. There's a lot. There's a lot of five percenters. Yeah Around for sure. It was I think I that's what I saw. I saw the business side I was and I hope that that was it. Yeah, I hoped it was I hope he sat around in a room with his wife and dogs and he goes man like leave these fucking guys They're getting it up like crazy But I think the authenticity was the selling point the fact that he didn't have those closed doors meetings and be like All right, this is what we're gonna do. I apologize in advance for all the dumb shit I say on this next episode But man, we're gonna get like this is gonna go viral watch But I think like that that forethought wasn't there I think it was off the cuff. That's really who he is. He's genuinely just an idiot Yeah, I don't honestly it's like I think that goes to prove it man Like if that is in your head, I don't care what you're on if you're drunk or on drugs Like that doesn't exist that that is not in any of us Like if we sat here and smoked peyote, like there'd be no way it would be like uttering racial epithets within like 10 minutes of being high So it's like that's in there and I only do that to my friends who are that race And to their face like yes, yeah, and in the good humor like you're not gonna pull a bill mar on mind pump Right like going like what was Kramer everybody did that? God at the Laugh House in LA. That was crazy Ruin his whole career, but then I mean he was a he was reputable character to start I don't know if this is gonna affect. Well, he's smacked around that freaking that one special needs dude And that really didn't do much to him. But because think of the following exactly what I think I don't think it'll affect much. I mean even the I mean he's got you know Like African-American guys in his crew or whatever and I'm sure they're okay with it to some extent like because this isn't the first time They've heard it. I'm sure like no one's like, oh my god So to me, it's like, you know, it won't affect it. I don't think it will either I think a lot of people thought it was was going to and I'm like, uh, I don't think so Actually, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if he's got a lot of people that are cut think that way themselves Look when trump does dumb shit Like he's still the president and like when you said those things in the like any publicity is good publicity I guess if you're following is a bunch of idiots. Well, so I see this trend happening right now Which annoys the fuck out of me is I actually think a lot of these This beef that goes back and forth. It reminds me of you know, it's all too pop and biggie Back in the days where you know, the east coast west coast thing is like I'm starting to see that in the fitness industry Where people are intentionally picking beefs just to get It's classic. It's classic advertising. It was mastered by coca-cola and pepsi back in the day Like when you create beef, you actually give people you you actually force people to take a side When in fact, they would have never taken a side to begin with so now all of a sudden My two choices are coke and pepsi whereas before I had seven up and well I mean and that's any good business follows religious tenants in my in my estimation, right? So it's like if you if you set up the opposite then it's de facto two options, right? But I mean with the whole Piana thing. It's like he's not it's not going to matter and the beef like Generation iron too. I think we watched the fucking trailer. I haven't seen though. I haven't seen it But I've heard like whispers about this fake beef thing happening. Uh, what's the what's his face the guy that jumps real high I don't know. Oh fuck. He always does like online. I could see the wheel spinning. Yeah, come on. You know who I'm talking about Bodybuilder guy, or what is the guy that's on jack for no reason? Yeah, but I mean, he's in good shape. He looks good But he's never seen that's been accused of lifting like like Oh, no, not castleberry. No castleberry. Oh fucking. What's his name? Bradley martin? Oh, yeah, so he has I and this is just news to me And I've just heard this sort of through the great vine that he has like a fake beef without Australian guy Yes, and it's all I mean, it's all since like powerlifters Do the same thing or they're starting to do the same but it's but it's fucking playing. It's fast in the furious It's playing for slips like they'll what do you mean? They call people out and it's great now It happened last year to me. No is that and it was all in good fun But like they'll poke each other at instagram and like they'll put money down biggest total wins So it's that's cool though. Yeah, there's a prep. There's a there's a there's a precipice there There's a there's a climax to that where it's like tangible. Yeah, it's it's I mean It's almost taking on like a box. There's something you can actually measure like where bodybuilders would be objective like I look better than you No, you don't or followers. Yeah, right exactly. No, you got to put your money where your mouth is Yeah, so this is this is coming up now. I'm powerlifting because I mean, I don't know if you guys have been to a powerlifting me Yeah, okay. I mean it's it's like being at the dmv with strong people Like that's literally what it is it's from like a from a like a spectator sport. It's not right No, I mean so and they're trying to implement like new ways and what are they doing? So there's a new thing happening right now and australia is really kind of leading the way on this is a meat promoter named marcus mercopolis So he's the one that puts on the iron classic and there's a lot of big lifters coming out and all sort of under Or thanks to him, I guess So they're doing now They're sort of spinning off because they're seeing the potential market for that head to head So they're hosting a meat right now and there's two things that go viral, right? Massive massive guys lifting massive massive weights ray williams That took powerlifting into the mainstream like people can consent like a thousand fucking pounds to this guy So, I mean even if you played tennis, you're like, oh shit. So that got traction So what they're doing now is a they're hosting big dogs So this will be the second year that they'll host big dogs in melbourne, which will be No weight classes in the jungle. We don't give a shit. Oh, wow do whatever Biggest fucking total wins. Oh, so that's like, I mean that's drawing And what they're adding this year is really interesting sort of as like I don't want to say like a side show But if you're like a warm-up act is they're doing something similar with With lifters that are known to be good, but have similar totals as other lifters regardless of weight class So oftentimes like there'll be a weight class above or weight class below each other But they'll total around the same. It's like, hey, you guys have eight or nine months Do whatever you gotta do and they'll be like a versus Yeah, come in as big as you want and it's biggest total wins. No weigh-ins. No bullshit throw down squat bench dead three attempts each So it's like but that spun off. So last year there was two two bigger lifters, jordan wong and joe sullivan who competed at Reebok record breakers just up in dublin at csa. You guys know burdick, right jesse. So jesse's gym So jesse, yeah jesse throws great meets and he was able to attract these two big lifters And they sort of got on an instagram tiff with each other and it means all in good fun But there was i mean jordan paid out 15 hundred bucks at the end like cash here go Awesome Yeah, so now they're now more guys are starting to take that on because hey, I mean it's good exposure, right? But it's not just petty fucking Dick slapping on instagram to get more followers. It's like, you know, that's got to drive your training And now now are you seeing growth in the sport of powerlifting now as a result of something? Well, maybe not as a result I think but it seems to be growing a little bit because it felt like because I I wasn't a huge powerlifting follower, but I did by I think it was called powerlifting magazine or powerlifting USA power magazine something like that and it uh, the first issue I bought on there forget had ed koan on it eddies the man. I got his shirt Do you really have a great friend? Oh really? Oh, so he was like he was my introduction to powerlifting and the guy just blew me away But I think for a little while there with all the gear people were wearing I think that kind of fucked up powerlifting for a second, right? It was its inception, right west side barbell The single ply multiply lifters because it was just like how much weight can we lift without actually lifting the weight? So powerlifting really started to take off when raw lifting came in. There you go Yeah, so I mean there's different classifications that I think a lot of people in the outside don't understand Because I think they they go to that west side. Yeah, break that down so people understand Sure So I mean classically what you're referring to west side barbell sort of was the the godfather like the epicenter of Of powerlifting and I mean, I'm relatively new to this But I've sort of I've got the lay of the land a little bit and I mean they would wear You know squat suits, bench shirts and deadlift which is still around like Blaine summers is a big They call them geared lifting which is like, you know, you You get five guys to hang you from a squat rack to get you into this massive suit that just compresses the hell out of you So it's like it's it's major technology like it'll add some serious weight to your squad I mean you have to learn how to use it because I know people who for the first time Put on a squat suit or a bench shirt and they can't even hit depth because it's so fucking tight It's ridiculous I mean it'll take for like an average bench or like three or four hundred pounds just to get the bar to your chest Because it's it's basically like an elastic exoskeleton Which would be and it's like canvas in there So there's some single ply which is a lesser density or thickness or elasticity than multiply So multiply is like It's it's insane. These guys you could probably like come in 12 gauge to the chest and they wouldn't break the suit Like it some of it is like kevlar woven like oh my god That's so crazy. Have you ever seen people put these things on? Have you guys? It's like it and it takes two or three guys to help them put it on some way you get exhausted Yeah, they have to like percolate into I literally trained out a gym where guys did this and like the straps go over the shoulders And there's velcro and that's sort of how you tie the whole thing together They'll put the straps on and they'll put the squat rack the model lift up They'll put the straps around the bar and hang from the bar It's yeah, but it's an hour. It is the strength like I walked in and I was like The mentality of that was chains on the wall. There's fucking bands. There's dudes hanging. I'm like, whoa Is this like a safety word? So like that was kind of its inception was that but as it broke away in the past Like I don't know maybe 10 years or so towards like raw lifting I think and with social media it helps as well Right because what that exo skeleton suit that you put on when you moved for raw lifting and you're trying to Lift big weights that has to be muscle So there's there's an aesthetic component to the growth of powerlifting for sure Because I would say the most popular lifters are the 220 242 198 guys where they mean there's a principle of diminishing returns Oh, I hear what you're saying on where right? So it's like the guys in the 242s in the 220s They're fucking cartoon characters man like a lot of times if you sprayed them up Walked them across the expo floor and put them on stage with the bodybuilders like They look like freaks. Yeah, right? So there's there was that trade-off or that transition between like You know putting on an accessory to get you stronger and then oh like maybe if we just did more like accessory movements We'd get stronger now you have to change Do you have to change or explain how you your your form changes with gear versus without gear because I've Seeing people squat like they're with their their legs go way out when they're when they got the squat suit on and I think the only lift that the gear doesn't make a big difference is the deadlift if i'm not mistaken Yeah, and yeah, and you won't see that Change much with with a suit on because a lot of times The guys that lift in gear and there's weight classes just like anything else But it favors heavier guys because they can use more of their leverages in the suit But heavy weights tend to do poorly on the deadlift regardless the center of gravity thing right like with our center of gravity is anterior like of our lumbar spine You have a big but like if ray williams the 1062 squatter raw deadlifts probably way less than that Yeah, I mean he's like maybe cracking 800, but it's that diminishing. So I actually crunched the numbers on this 75 percent of the biggest deadlifts of all time were done by the 308s are lighter 75 percent of the biggest squats of all time were done by the 308s are higher So it's like the best deadlifter in the world. I mean eddie eddie did 901 At 220 yeah two hour way in yeah, so that was actually just broken Maybe a month and a half ago. You're about that record lasted for a while. The long it's the longest one that I know That I know to still be to still be any pulled sumo So yes and no he pulled a modified sumo So like sumo basically is designated by a hand position relative to the to the legs or hands inside can hands inside sumo hands outside conventional But there's there's degrees of that like a lot of the top name guys that'll pull sumo pull like toes to plates eddie was like a very neutral stance sumo, so it was like His his knees were just outside his elbows sort of thing But the guy that just broke his record yuri balkans this russian guy He goes like toes to bar and he's just a technician like there's a lot a lot of moving parts to his technique But yeah, but yeah, you see you've seen some of those shifts in power lifting to where raw Now is more popular than geared and that seems to have made it grow And I also think what I've seen from the bodybuilding kind of cosmetic aesthetic world Is that they're starting to finally Really appreciate the muscle building effects of training like a power lifter sometimes Whereas in the past you didn't really I mean in the in the 70s you saw a lot of it and then it kind of fell out of favor He has a stark separation between the two There was a while there where bodybuilders didn't squat and didn't deadlift at all They just didn't do it and that and then machine base and colman, you know, ronnie colman was a big squatter and deadlifter And he kind of broke that and you know where he's at and you actually So look at dexter jackson Yeah, a guy who goes on record and says i'm a bodybuilder don't need to squat and hasn't squatted heavy in decades He's six years if i'm not mistaken. He's six years junior to To ronnie, right? And ronnie, yeah, buddy 800 pounds two weeks out from olympia. I know he's got the titan So that was single ply. Oh, that was a single ply suit that ronnie had when he did his eight That metro flex everyone fucking knows that video, right? But let me look at that like look at the denigration that that did to him He's he's five surgeries in in the last three years. He's got nerve damage I saw him in Toronto last year in a wheelchair Right and what's dexter doing dexter sweeps the arnold's last year goes across the world when's every fucking one Well, I see and here's what i was just going to say now is i think they're starting now with powerlifting Correct me if i'm wrong and i see you being A part of this wave is in powerlifting you're starting to see more people understand mobility accessory work and correctional exercise whereas powerlifters before like Correctional work mobility with the hell's that well you talked about like the difference in training between Like the geared and and the raw lifting and i think i mean i could go on for days, but There it forced them to because if you try to squat like a gear lifter without gear It's an anatomical and biomechanical nightmare So i mean i don't want to get too too in depth with it But like think of the position of the hips right like if those feet are pointed to either side of the room If that's a representation of rotation of the hips Right, so if that is full external rotation of the hips How are you going to generate any torque from a length tension relationship of that muscle? Right, you don't have to the torque isn't generally you just push yourself into this Into this exoskeleton and that sort of has your back sort of speak another thing the q and I don't know if powerlifting's the blame or it's nasm or you know shitty Certifications or crossfit squatting yeah squatting the sit back q and squat i mean as a chiropractor Sit back all day. I'll pay off my student loans But if you think about like mechanics to the si joint like that's they were fine because that That thoracolumbar fascia that lumbopelvic region was it totally stabilized because on top of this, you know Kevlar suit that they have on that's compressing them in they have you know a two prong Fuck 10 12 millimeter belt on top of that So low back is fine if they can keep that spine directly under the bar So what they try and do is with a low bar position They need to sit back to keep that center of gravity sort of appease But the second you do that without that suit So if your hips are flexing forward if your pelvis is anteriorly tilting That's you're basically each ilium that your hips your hip Sets in is going like this But if you think about the gait cycle like when we walk and we put our leg in extension So that lag leg when you're walking that's antroversion of the pelvis right so they move independent to one another So if antroversion leads to flexion or extension rather of that femur You're gonna tell people to sit back so antrovert which would set a trajectory for extension And then you're gonna flex through that. So that's when people get like FAI like hip impingement stuff That's part of the reason there and then sprained SI joints or like a spondylolisesis l5s1 So you said hip impingement is that when Because I've had this happen in the past and I figured out ways to help clients correct work through it and correct it But I'll hear some people say like I feel like it's my hip flexor when I'm squatting. Yeah, which one What do you mean? There's like eight or nine muscles that flex the hip. Oh, okay. Well, that's what they say Yeah, no, and that's and that's what I say back to them. Yeah, it's the ambiguity of that designation Yeah, they'll just say I feel it here It feels like my hip flexor when in reality what I identified many times was just a hip It was a hip issue had to do with that what you're saying So instead of saying sit back Because I think when I tell people or when I've told people in the past to sit back What I'm trying to tell them to do is not necessarily sit back But just to adjust their weight and I think what people understand is anterior tilt Like when you say sit back, they say they think stick butt out and arch my back Which is then what causes a lot of the issues So what what are the cues that you would use then instead of that for like a powerless? Yeah, or just lower bar squat Yeah, or just just as someone who's squatting and you want their well I think the dogma squatting is bad for your knees I think that's where it started and I think from that extrapolated out Certifications and and coaching that that all went to protect the knee and it's like to me Yeah, we'll start with one study And this is the problem with research when bad research gets in because it just circulates because someone can cite it And if someone checks it out, it's like, okay. Yeah, but it's like if you don't fucking if you just read the pub med abstract and don't like Research is like like religion, right? You can either follow it to a tee or you can interpret it If you think a guy lived in a whale for two days and then lived like that's there's an interpretation to be had There's an understanding that like, okay, that probably didn't happen But what's this trying to tell me right now? It's the same thing with research If you just go off of it like word for word dogmatically and go, oh this research out on this I'm gonna abide by this this new tenet of that sounds like some people we've had on our show before Interesting Like Norton Lane Norton Clare of life But yeah, so the study was 1955 This guy Carl Klein did a study on he'd basically use a goniometer So like the measuring stick and compass to measure degrees of movement of valgus and varus at the knee And the control was just people walking down the street non athletes and they took olympic weight lifters immediately post competition Now there's a few things wrong with this from the get-go It's like well, yeah, if you took those people off the street and you just squatted them full depth with a bar over their head They would have more mobility and their knee just forced on it with because they're just walking on the street. Otherwise, right? So from that he obviously found more valgus and varus motions through the olympic weightlifting study the deep squatters Now, can you explain to our listeners what you mean by valgus? Yeah, you know Valgus would be like knees in so like if you put your If you put your leg up on like a table and then someone grabbed like They're put their hand on the inside of the thigh and the outside of the shin and pushed that way That would be valgus that would be pushing the knee into valgus and the opposite so if you took that that Quad hand put it down the inside of the shin and the other hand on the outside So basically you're saying knees flaring out or flaring exactly. Yeah. Yeah So he tested them unloaded afterwards and basically looked for laxity what she found obviously I mean we'd find that now even if we use herself as a control sitting here in the studio We measured our amount of valgus and varus laxity and we went out Took it to the bar. It's just the amount of the amount of give or move exactly the joint But so from that he surmised that a few things a that there was more Okay, but he made a false equivalency and not found it anywhere else in research that that laxity would lead to an increase in injury There's no proof of that anywhere and the study has been reproduced But you you can't retract it once it's out there And I mean it was done so long ago. It's been perpetuated and so from there They're like squats bad for the knees. Yeah, which is not I mean not at all the case like not not at all the case But when Programmed or when cued correctly like no it actually showed if you have the hip stability for deep knee flexion That's actually great for your knees the compressive moment is at that 90 degree where they're telling you to stop That's actually the worst. Yeah, that is the worst part to stop Um, so back to your question if I was to queue like a powerlifting low bar squat I mean I could really go I could go for days just on this but I mean I try and keep the pelvis underneath and break in the knees first So like descend in the knee like initiate the movement with the knees then go straight down then sit back at the bottom There is with the low bar position There's an inevitability if you're trying to appease center of gravity and making an efficient movement because when you're vertically loading Biomechanics and physics is the exact same thing It is the exact do you do you like how riptoe teaches a squad? No, the guy's a fucking croc Such a croc. No, I mean that's whatever man. He's like he's like Jesus in the strength in the strength Yeah, but no because it's the dumbest thing in the world because he'll do starting strength meets right like which is They take out the bench press and they put an overhead press Yeah, let's start someone off with an overhead press brilliant and put them on a stage in front of people They remember that weigh them in as they leave and then see how they how many like lumbar spines you fuck up You can't correct for that spinal stability in a full overhead position. I mean I had no problem going after that guy It's just I mean there are this is why we like you. I mean nothing Everything works. Nothing works every time But to me like I I take a very like pragmatic like anatomical biomechanical approach to it from like an injury prevention standpoint That's everyone's real rate limiter. I laugh at power lifters when they'll come off and meet I mean they like blow out their si joint and then when they start programming again It's like, oh, you know, I'm gonna build up the quads this off season I'm gonna front squad a lot or safety bar squad It's like dude your rate limiter isn't your quads if you're limping off after your fucking second attempt and not taking a third Why don't you focus on stabilizing that si joint first? So I mean you could do fucking you know Hashtags and lunges or whatever and build up the quads that you want But if you are not in a stable enough position to express that strength on the platform Guess what all that's for not and the you know the funny thing is that this is Paradigm shattering mind blowing what you're saying to a lot of people Who are in the strength world which if you really think about it I mean it makes perfect. It makes perfect sense I mean as personal trainers who've like I worked with a lot of high-end clients and a lot of the work I did was what you're talking about. It wasn't develop this develop that build that it was develop stability Work on control work on range of motion And then all the other pieces kind of fell in place and then all of a sudden We're getting a lot out of the exercises that we're doing and I you know I'll never forget as a personal trainer in the early days We were taught certain exercises. You shouldn't do ever We were taught don't ever do anything behind the neck don't ever bend More than 90 degrees at the elbow don't ever bend more than 90 degrees at the at the knee and then as I Started, you know as I got older and gained more experience. I really learned that Really what it's all about is if you can move With good stability and good control Then that movement's okay. I don't care what it is if you have good stability and if you can't you should work to get there It shouldn't just be like oh, fuck it. I can only squat down to 90 because that's as far as I can safely go You shouldn't just I mean all that's it's devoid of any assessment Which is I guess a lot of what I do and what it hinges on is like you just said you brought up a great point But behind the neck nothing ever behind the neck Dude if you're superman and you have clavicles that are foot and half long and your shoulder motion is great Behind the neck relative to that deltoid that you're trying to isolate Yeah, it's fine You're fine If you have this the ability to retract and depress the scapula to set that trajectory and that trajectory Just happens to be where your fucking hand is behind your head. Yeah, go for it. Do a lot of people have that probably not No, and that's just it like I met years ago. I met a gentleman Who was he was either 70 or in his late 60s? I can't remember But he was a high level gymnast in his early years and he was a smaller guy Still worked out and I was blown away first of all by his development his muscle development But by his mobility incredible mobility now here We're talking about a gymnast who's go who you know train in ranges of motion and movements that I was taught Don't do they're totally they're unnatural. They're bad for you And that was kind of the first clue and I'm like wait a minute if you can move like I'll give you another example if I take 15 people off the street right now here in America and I tell them to sit in a squat They're gonna look terrible because nobody does that anymore when in reality sitting in a squat if you do it and you practice it Since you're a child. It's one of the most natural things we do. That's how humans took a shit You know for for most of human civilization and now you sit in a squat knees hurt back hurts ankles hurt Fall over most people can't do without falling over you try if you force yourself down in that position Exactly. So really it's about that control and stability and it's crazy because in the world that you I'll get your expertise is obviously in Movement and mobility, but you compete in powerlifting and uh, you must be blowing people's minds when you're talking like this um Yeah, it's just I mean it's just shining light on it I think a lot of them they have They have them there's this preconceived notion that mobility And I think it comes from that west side method that like you need to be as just flexible as you want to be because there's You know, there is an elastic property to muscle, right? And they think that if you can springboard off that that that's exactly that tightness, right? And it's like yeah, but like that's how that's how you tear your highest risk Yes, so and my biggest thing is like, you know, I take guys that squat 800 pounds 900 pounds and I put them on one leg Okay, like I challenge can you put put your socks on in the morning standing up one at a time See if you can do it without like fucking falling back on the bed I can't do it, right? I'm like if you can't stand on one leg don't fucking squat with two You don't have the stability for it. It's just I mean it's It's been glaring for so long, but it's I mean so when I when I present when I do my seminars I I put up that equation, right and I ask people like what's when you squat What do you think the percentage breakdown is per muscle group? Like how much are your squat squats? How much is hamstrings? How much is core? How much is upper back tightness? How much is lats? How much is dorsi flexion? Whatever and I get percentages and I put it in a nice bracket Put it up on a board nice bracket and say, okay. All right. Let's start say you come off a meat And then you you know, you think your quads are weak Okay, let's say that potential 30 percent's not 25 So I go through the equation I do all the math inside the brackets and the brackets are key Because if anyone knows math and order of operations because at the end I draw a little unicorn I draw a little unicorn on the outside of the brackets and now you need to give that unicorn a value because that's like Oh, shit. I can't bench three times a week going to meet with a fucking elbows hurt because I blowbar squatted yesterday I have no external rotation. I'm torquing the shit out of my elbows. I can't realize why I can't fucking bench But I'm gonna hammer my triceps because I'm I'm inside this bracket I'm inside this bracket. I'm trying to get my triceps stronger for my bench But it's like dude, you can't fucking you can't you can't bench three times a week going into a meat You're fucking useless, right? So let's let's let's let's identify this unicorn first Because when you give this a value say that that that denigration of not being able to train at a high frequency Your high intensity peeking for a meat puts you at 0.5 Go out and like, okay, maybe I'm 30 percent on my squat But I've only got like 28 on my quad so 28 and then you do the math Okay, so I'm like 79 percent of what I could be with all my muscle groups So I get everything up It's like, yeah, but if you times by 0.5 on the outside of this fucking magic unicorn All of a sudden all that goes to shit, right? You're 600 pound squats now of the 400 pound squat That's your biggest potential for increasing your strength But you need to identify it and you need to see the writing on the wall because everyone thinks squat bench dead Oh, it's such a balanced sport. Fuck. No, it's not a balanced sport It's the most like internally rotated dominant upper body spore there dead lift with your lats bench with your backs Okay, both of those are internal rotators of the shoulder then get your shoulder in the most externally rotated and extended low bar and it's like, yeah, no shit I mean, there's so many pitfalls designed into those three lifts Especially in combination and in succession that it's like It just takes a different prism to look through So I think I just got into the sport at the right time as I was going through sort of I mean I finished up with Exercise science and public health degree went into chiropractic college So I was squatting at night with power lifters And then I was cutting up dead bodies in the morning with like in my anatomy class I'm like, wait a minute. This attaches here. Yeah. Oh, I gotta tell everyone about this No, no, stop because it's like all the dots together. Yeah, and honestly, that's what it was And like that to me like just the cadaver lab and all that my training Was exponentially more efficient after that. Oh, yeah, do you consider yourself kind of like a Like a nerd a bit. Do you do you geek out on that stuff when you when you learn it? Can't you hear him talk? Well, no, that's why I'm asking. I feel like you uh, he's like beast He's like hasn't he named he's a big muscular beast Were you always like this or was it was it? When you started learning at this you started diving deeper and deeper and just enjoyed I so when I so when I started training with luke my buddy the guys like let's just get you massive He There was no learning curve He's he's still to this day when there's something I can't figure out I'll message him like he's just he's a savant like he's just He's great growth minded. His physical literacy is unbelievable. Like you talked about proprioception yesterday To have that at his size and his ability to just internalize because I mean I look at it this way And this is a little bit of an aside and this is probably one of the driving forces of why I work out like Think about like your senses, right? Like your ability to touch and smell and and hear and all that Trying to think try to think of a color that you've never seen before. Yeah, you can't do it No, you can't conceptualize it. Yeah, but now let's think of proprioception kinematic awareness physical literacy as that sixth sense Like not bruce willis and the weird dead kid But like this is that's your real sixth sense, right? Your ability to feel your body in space and it's like I still when I go train I can still feel things differently every day and that's I mean that's tantamount to like seeing a new color every day Holy fucking shit. Like that's that's incredible to me But so I totally forgot where we're going. I mean, well that that no that is clearly an intelligence That's clearly an intelligence. There's a genetic component to it, but you can definitely develop it develop it And if you look at sports that require the highest level of that type of intelligence that proprioceptive intelligence look at sports like High diving or you know, uh, gym, you know gym that rhythm is you know gymnastics I mean where people are spinning in space and having to realize where they are so that they could Make the smallest splash or whatever the way that they train is mainly that it's very little physical training It's literally frequent frequent frequent training For that particular type of skill and so you can definitely develop it But there's people who are born with an incredible ability to To know those types of things and know where their bodies are in space And I think it makes a big difference as a trainer But I think you know kind of along the lines what we're talking about One of the worst things to happen in fitness that we still do that we still do is we put people into Boxes and camps and it becomes this competitive thing where If you're a mobility movement guy, well then that means you're a yoga hippie person And if you're a power you're crawling everyone Yeah, if you're a powerlifter you're a big strong dude with the beard And if you're a bodybuilder then you you know then all you do is you know body part splits and you meet like this And they lose that crossover and then from that you develop myths like Of course if you meet someone where all they do is Static stretching mobility work and they look relaxed You're gonna think oh that stuff must make you weak because this person looks weak and they look loose But I think there's a genetic propensity to that that that picks them Right because it definitely the yoga guys and the hippie stuff And i'm not gonna shit on kombucha because you're you're just trying something but like that culture to me is like That's not impressive. You have no appreciable muscle mass. There's no resistant force. That's Oh god. I mean who listens to this? What's your demographic? Oh That's a fat. Oh god. I'm gonna get in trouble. I'm not gonna say There's nothing I mean Jews and Auschwitz had abs Right, there's like the 16 year old kid taking the selfie in the mirror with abs. That's not impressive just as the 145 pound spiritual yogi It's that's not impressive. You have no resistant force. Give me like a 275 lifter that does his mobility work Is stable as fuck on one foot. That's impressive. Well, this is what prides me about what I do because I you know Walk around be a bodybuilder guy because squat good weight and then I also can do a lot of mobility and I'm six fucking three Yeah, so I I said it on the show that they probably made a more pc way to say what you're saying right now in my opinion Everybody needs to be doing more of what they're not doing. Sure. Yeah I mean that and that's just it like the yoga the yogis that are preaching about mobility and meditation On the same way too. I'm not impressed by you because you know why bro You need to go live some fucking heavy weight you pussy And you know who's just as equally to get injured on the other side of the spectrum. Yeah, right They're instable, right? Right? Yeah, right? Well, well, and then the stability without stability is insta Because I think the problem is there's the the people assume a direct correlation between instability and strength Well, I mean, I mean, this is true for any extreme on any endeavor I mean you take a bodybuilder who does none of that stuff and you've got A meathead who can't move and you know is injured and unhealthy or whatever and you can do this with all those things But they can all learn from each other and it doesn't mean you have to become that It means you can get better at what you're doing Well, they're in inverted bell curves. That's how I look at them They're right So you need to find that middle point where the likelihood is or you find your way somewhere in the middle regardless I mean if you're in the Cirque de Soleil, it's like man Maybe you should not like stretch your eyes much or go go hit some weights Or Totally different when we're talking about sports because that's sport specific right there, right? Yeah You have to be extreme Yeah, when it starts hitting which we all have said a million times to in the show is that, you know Sports are not technically healthy for the body But well, I mean, I would not advise getting into competitive powerlifting for health reasons Like competitive competitive the the amateur weekend stuff you want to hip sure sure But like the stuff I see on the inner workings of like, you know I've been lucky in the last year to compete on some pretty big stages and it's just like Holy shit extreme. Yeah, it's extreme But it's like that's But that I think appeases more of a mental health thing with those guys because that's I think that's really the driving force They don't do it to be healthy. They do it to to accomplish. I don't think I don't think I think that's true for anybody Who does anything to an extreme level? That just bodybuilding business all those. I mean business is like that You like you want to achieve a super high level of performance in business Your something else is gonna something it's not balanced It's just the way it is and you have to accept it. But you know back to the flexibility topic that you were talking about how people believed Being tight somehow made you stronger What really blew me away Not that long ago was realizing that flexibility has less to do with This muscle that you can stretch like a rubber band and it's more to do with the central nervous system And I had how it responds because I could take a client and I've done this so many times I'll take a client and I'll improve the flexibility Within a 20 minute stretching session. I didn't make their muscles any longer I just told their central nervous system to relax a little bit. And so when you have somebody Who and again their genetic components to this and I've had clients like this as well Who come in never work out? They're totally deconditioned But they're so lax and so flexible that they can I mean they can squat bottom out They can you know stretch their hamstrings no problem But they're so loose and weak and people attribute that to weakness and no it's just this person is deconditioned Their cns is on the other side of the scale. Well, they don't have the cns that fires to control It's just super lax and relaxed all the time Well, I think a lot of that and it's something I talk about a lot is why you get tight, right? Because I think in this spectrum we've created really linear a linear like sort of polar opposites of mobility and and like flexibility or like in In flexibility or like tightness and mobility. I guess is what I'm getting at But I mean I look at it more like a three three prong or three a three circle venn diagram because Stability and strength are not the same thing, right? And I think understanding why joints get tight because a lot of times they get tight to force stability on a joint So I this is a classic example. If I were to give you a dynamometer Exactly So if I were to give you a grip strength measure here And have you put it over your head? Where do you think the reading would be higher arms at your side or arm overhead? Or your side every muscle that controls grip Media leprechaun down over here as nothing. It's totally dissociated from the shoulder But you have proprioceptors in the shoulder that talk to the brain that say hey in this overhead position We're unstable. Don't load anything heavy in this So kettlebell bottom underpress is something we did last time I was around and that's a great example Like I can take a 35 pound kettlebell. I can go 300 pounds overhead like 35 pounds should not be shaky at the top But it's in this most unstable Structural joint position in that full overhead position that the grip it feels like oh my wrists are weak That's one thing I hear a lot. It's like no, it's not your shoulder is telling your brain Don't load Distal to this instability drop the fucking thing. That's why your wrist feels weak. What a great video an explanation That's such a that's such a cool point. You just blew my mind right now. Yeah, no that you are I'm listening to you right now. I'm going like wow, that's such a great This is why it's so important to train in these different positions because in range your brain Your your central nervous system literally is Think of it like a rev limiter, but that rev limiter Changes depending on the positioning of the body and the joint So you're going you can be so strong You could be like man, I have the strongest biceps in the world or I have the strongest quads in the world But in this position, I'm I have half the strength I lost a lot of that strength And so the key really is to be able to gain that strength and stability in all these different Ranges of motion all these different positions Because you know again real life works that way You know this does remind me a little bit of like some of the bodybuilding culture that we're doing some things I felt that were good, but they totally Misrepresented it like you'd see guys, you know kicking their out flaring their elbows out really wide and doing these Triceps and then they would be telling people that's developing a certain part of the tricep I'd be like I would be like you fucking lower bicep at the same time too Then somebody might catch me doing a movement like that inside the gym And I'd be like well the difference is I'm not doing it to build a bicep or buy up my peak of my bicep Or my inner tricep or you know, that's my one of my favorite ones I do for my shoulder stability is is like like crucifix curls like the high cable curls Because then you load that long head of bicep tendon as an anterior stabilizer of the shoulder Everyone thinks i'm working on the peak it's like no I got t-bone by a fucking suburban three years ago and had to mel Gibson my shoulder back into place on the corner Delacruz boulevard like this thing's got to be locked in and that long head of bicep tendon is going to do it I give a fuck about my the how big your eyes. I have no idea. I honestly could not tell you So great dude see and this is what people need to hear and I know I know there's people that listen to the show and then they see me in the gym And I know they see me doing things that i'm sure they've heard me talk shit about But the purpose behind why i'm using using a movement like that is completely different than the moron on i g That's telling people that oh, this is what I do to work on this You know, this is what I do to work on like no, there's an intent there And I think if you can't explain that intent like you shouldn't be doing it every exercise and it's funny because I I mean or certainly not teaching it at least sure It's the wrong if you want to go do weird shit with your body and do weird shit But you shouldn't be on it on a stage Telling others to do it because it's going to work a part of your muscle and isolate an area of a muscle to build and develop It's to the point now where I go work out at commercial dims people don't ask me questions because they're sick of the long wind and answers There's a cloud. There's a what I do. Why are you gripping the bar that way and that is let me get a dry erase board and explain Yeah, no seriously like all in my in my office is in boss barbell I've taken the out onto the floor and literally like draw on a picture for people to understand What gets me is the uh, the tricep grip one that debate. Oh man. Yeah, yeah Dude, I could go for like I mean that's one I have just like I should just have it printed and laminated And make you read this this while I do my next set if you have any questions Let me know because it's just like if you don't have an intent in everything you do then don't do it I think the biggest thing is is people Think of the muscles and forget about the cns. They forget about the recruitment patterns to forget about How that is really probably more important than the actual dumb muscle itself When you're talking about working, you know strength and all these different things I think I mean that's that's such a huge part of it like the The note the hashtag no days off crew like okay. See you later. Like you're not going to make it but I think A real understanding of muscular anatomy and action like the idea of secondary tertiary Quaternary action of muscle blows people away like the long head of the biceps tendon blending to make You know your your glenoid labrum If you don't know that then you're going to do your bicep curls at your side the entire time not use it as a secondary flexor Not worry about that active insufficiency When you're trying to train the bicep as a secondary flexor of the shoulder Not a primary flexor of the elbow and it's like if you really want to dig into it I mean you can go you could spend like days on every muscle group and like, you know thinking of like force curves and Dynamic stabilizers like how all you got to do is look at an anatomy chart and all the muscles touch each other They're all overlapping connecting influencing. Yeah, I mean in the fascia Yes, I mean I mean that you want to you want to complicate things People have a hard enough time with base what I consider basic anatomy Talk to me about fascial planes. Yeah, holy shit. You're like blowing people's minds It's the human body is far far far more complex than we think and You know bodybuilding has done some great things and it's easily the most influential You know, I guess route of fitness that has influenced us in terms of resistance training The average person to lift weights got most of their information from their bodybuilding world But one of the things that they did that was absolutely horrible that now we're starting to see that You know a lot of the repercussions of is that they break everything down to these very just to see muscles the individual muscles Bicep tricep delt. This is the side head. This is the front, you know the anterior head This is the rear delt and it when you train that way Um, you you can cause lots of problems. We see it all the time So let's let's talk about some let's really dumb it down for people and give some simple takeaways What are some like go-to moves that you Either like always incorporate in your own training or you typically teach somebody like you know You already know either by the way they look or all the imbalances that you're used to seeing that are very common like Incorporate this this and this into your lifestyle and this already will start to help you lunging lunging is I mean to me I'll I'll assess someone's lunge before I assess assess their squad Yeah every day of the week now explain that why is that so important? Um, so We live like it's nine to five. That's part of it. Yeah, but I think I I look at I mean Functional training is the buzzword of the past since the boss who all came out or maybe before that right like that Is the selling point to the uninitiated? I mean I cringe every time I hear it But but let's talk about you know biped humans. Let's talk about function. Let's walk first, right? So a gait analysis can be really difficult and it takes an acute eye and a pretty You know good working knowledge of the underlying anatomy to really assess why your foot's pronating or you know Why you're heel striking early on one side, but if you take that that very sort of Benign assessment that seemingly benign assessment you stretch it out That's what a lunge is you're taking the gait through its end ranges of motion Then things become very apparent like I always use this analogy like if I was to try and I don't know shoot Adam in the head, right? I wouldn't have to be I could be five degrees off I'd still blow his fucking brains out, right? He's sitting right next to me. Yeah, but if I'm but if I'm gonna try and shoot Well, this is what it takes to get through to people if I'm trying to shoot the guy across the street And I'm a couple degrees off. I'm gonna clean over his head. He didn't won't even know he's in danger It's the same thing with hip mechanics and body mechanics if you look at that longer range trajectory So it's like if I'm trying to assess the hip, I'll start with the foot and make it I mean I can look at the hip and see it's like, okay. He's internally rotating here I don't need to look for that toe pointing in. I know I by looking at it because I've done it enough times But to make it apparent to them to increase the likelihood of buy in to get them to correct it The lunge is huge because it's like, you know, they do a conventional lunge 90 90 No knees over the toe. It's like, okay lose all that all that when your trainer told you before shit Try and anchor the heel drive that knee as far over as you can an athletic lunge And then this is what I always get is I want to see both hips externally rotate This was something that you open even my eyes and I've improved my lunging after you and I did that series together and uh I never realized I had a discrepancy in my hips until I had to get that glute me to fire and open up on one side And it was actually I had to really one side very natural for me Other side very unnatural for me and you'll notice too a discrepancy and stride length So I usually mark that because it's it's it's hard wire that stability, right? They feel tight to get into that because that's a really on you're basically in like almost a front split position as far as your Fingers are concerned now. You made a point earlier about Uh hip flexor, right as a single designation and it's like whoa, whoa I mean and you have to oversimplify and a lot of times it's self diagnosed, right? Like silicon valleyitis people they they web md themselves and it's like, oh, it's probably tight hip flexor All right, which one iliacus soas rectus femoris tfl Your adductor brevis and pectinus both act like hip flexors. You tell me which hip flexor it is, right? Sartorius acts as a flexor adductor external rotators like Which one and then usually what position? Exactly because all these are acting on a on a movement or on a joint that has freedom of movement in all planes of the body So linear extension and this is why I cue the lunge the way I do is only going to affect a certain Group of muscles usually linear extension is more Stretching of the iliacus then you got a lateral lumbar shift and that'll get more onto the onto the soas But if you externally rotate and abduct that back hip because usually we're very Front focus when that front leg lands and I cue them to go knee over the toe. They think that's it They keep the heel down like okay chest is up good You're watching the back to the back leg because that's the one I'm most worried about I mean nine to five when you're sitting in this hip flex position It's like all your hip makes perfect sense because your leg behind you Probably has very little strength and stability if you're an average person Yeah, that's the point you know taking it and building strength at those end ranges of motion and creating or Narrowing a threshold is how I describe it. You know strength and stability because what gets me is when people get hurt It's like I don't understand I've been doing the same thing every day and today I went to time Exactly you've been headed for that threshold your whole fucking life And you went and picked up your kid's toy and then that was that was in so my buddy jordan junta He he says it really eloquently and pain is the first symptom to appear or the last symptom to appear the first one to go away So it's like your sub threshold forever and not realizing it because you can't sort of internalize. Wow, that's a good point So in other words, uh, you know, you you can feel pain you can make it go away But you haven't corrected the problem just because you don't hurt anymore Doesn't mean you're not at that sub threshold anymore Like there's a lot more work that needs to be done to get you away from that level Which is before the pain actually because what I mean get in my office all the time He said I'm away with correctives. They feel good and then they're back in there like three months later Okay, when's the last time you did your correctives? Well when I started feeling better I stopped doing it. It's like well the shit man should I had to be eight like come on Right so to me it's like it's just it's just so apparent that it's so the lunge Sorry to get back to the point the lunge would be my big one for the lower body Because you walk through that cycle that you have that and how you do the lunch So I'll make sure that we put a link on this episode for that series that we did together because I'll tell you That this has become a staple Warm-up to me getting ready for like training my legs is I'll do all my prime movements That get me going like my 90 90 swings all that bullshit, right? So I get all I get and then I'll go into the lunge and I get barefoot I get barefoot and I do the walking lunges on the grass in here And I'm really focusing on that letting my and I never did that before where I concentrate on my back leg And try and open my hips up at the same time as I'm lunging forward and man I just feel amazing. Yeah, that's for me. That's a staple for lower body upper body Um, I do I think we did it in here the overhead press against the resistance band I think rotator cuff training is a lot of people miss the mark because it's the idea of training something that Is supposed to be active Sort of behind the scenes like when you say yeah, because people typically do a lot of like just yeah External rotation the humerus here with my elbow my side, which is one small piece And if you're loading it appropriately more often than I see that loaded with dumbbells It's like guys the first gym guru that ever existed was Isaac Newton gravity is not going anywhere That's isometric flexion. That's training your brachialis. Maybe. Oh, you mean when people are standing straight up? Yeah That's weird delts and like you're you know, you're shortening the rear delts and you're isometric contracting your brachialis adorable Your rotator cuffs doing nothing. Yeah. So like matching the plane of movement that you're going to have We should okay We need to explain what that what you just explained really quick visually because I see this in the gym all the time And I'm sure people look at me all weird when I have to get on the bench So I'll lay down sideways to actually do it But so when you're you see this a lot guys before they bench and they've heard this like oh I should warm my rotator cuff up and then they grab dumbbells and they do these flapping their arms Not realizing that like they're getting like no rotator. There's no resistance like seal flappers Well as ambiguous the designation as hip flexor is rotator cuff is equally there, right? Like it's on the same parallel It's the upper body equivalent to hip flexor Is the lower body what rotator cuff is to the upper body and shoulder because it's like name one of the muscles Yeah, that's right. Yeah, right. I'm sure there's minus super spinatus Yeah, it's like scapularis, right? What does each one do exactly and that's where and depending again on the position of humorous Exactly position of the scapula. What kind of movement you're doing? I mean So one I really like you know, I'll change my mind because we have this on on we have the overhead press with the band On the youtube channel dead hang chin up position Just initiating the pull-up. That's that's probably my go-to for the upper body like a downward truck Yeah, essentially, but no or like circles independently with your scapula like going like Dead hang overhead bring my shoulder blades together drop the chin to the chest and let Passive elevation right explaining people the two axes that the shoulder blades work on the elevation Elevation depression protraction retraction. I want to be fully elevated and protracted But two, you know, we talked about training muscles and not or instead of training movements This is a perfect example of training Movements, right when you set your scaps the the shoulder motion I mean if you think about it it starts from the thoracic spine Flex thoracic spine sort of increases that like if you're hunch forward all day Sets that rib cage on a trajectory back. That's going to glide those shoulder blades up and out Right just because the way the the the around them Yeah, the force vectors of the muscles that attach you are just going to naturally set them in that And now from there if we think about shoulder movement two-thirds of the movement's going to come from that ball and socket The last is going to come from that actual socket being able to accommodate for any end ranges of motion That's why if you try to reach overhead and lock your scapula in place You ain't going exactly but and we talked about the stability thing right like if I'm loading something in my hand overhead That's when people like feel like the wrists are weak So with what I like with the dead hang scapsets is like let it let it hang because you're you're not in a heightened state of awareness You're not threatened. It's a distraction force. You're not spinal loading So people can regardless of shoulder mobility can usually get to that almost like an olympic lifting overhead position When they wouldn't be able to normally do it Exactly and from there the first thing I'll cue is the elbow position because that so in this position Why people get pain by my estimation and what I see in my office the most and what fixes it is The terry's minor is the what initiates this movement, right? So the bodybuilding culture that has a lot of like impingement issues anterior uh anterior tilting of the scap internal rotation because they train everything in isolation So you see you see the elbows cave then is that what you see or what? No, I see them go internally rotate first get into their lats and keep it in the lats the whole time They stay in this tight kind of let they can relax in that position Yeah, so they'd never return to the dead hang Have you ever looked at like a gymnast hang from rings and you see their scapula just rotate out real nicely and incredible So if we think of those muscles that are going to work along that line towards the spine, right? That lower trap that's going to depress that shoulder blade bring that inferior angle towards the midline and sort of Initiate that movement. But that's from the spine to the shoulder blade from the actual humerus to the scapula What happens is to get into a position to use your lats to act like internal rotators You need to externally rotate your shoulders first. So if I'm in this dead hang, this is internal rotation, right? What I do first is here. Yeah, right. And that's extra. That's your terry's minor Yeah, that's your lats of your two of the two muscles. Well that gets you in a position where you can use your lats So of the two muscles of the external rotator the infraspinatus is your bigger one That's your arm flapping on the side when you're if you're doing it, right anyways But the terry's minor is smaller much smaller, but it is most active or most needed in that end range position So initiating there under like no Like no direct stress like people usually a cardinal sign of anterior impingement is that they point to the sort of the coracoid process that coracochrome large in front of the shoulder here pinches right here Yeah, that's where that terry's minor needs to externally rotate and pull that humerus out Instead of it said if it's not it's internally rotating that that sub scout or the superspinatus tendon or the bicep tendon Is going right under that arch and you're just mechanically pinching it So from here if you can externally rotate under load that to me is for my upper body. That's my go-to Oh, we'll definitely definitely shoot that. So you want to hang from the bar We're a shoot chin touch down. We'll shoot this and you want to rotate Yeah, and you want to kind of almost like you're twisting your elbows in a little bit exactly because that's external rotation On the longest lever possible, right, right, right. Excellent. Excellent You know, it's funny. I remember years ago doing behind the neck pull downs and understanding where to kind of Put my elbows in my positioning It was one of the best things I ever did for my shoulder mobility way back in the day I remember like I'm not supposed to do this, but I'm gonna do it anyway because you know So-and-so does it and I remember positioning my elbows not feeling it in my lats that much again Because I'm not able to pull them in front of me But noticing that my shoulder mobility got a lot better from doing because you're training the stabilizers that Sort of shut down the cns and say no, everything's fine. You may pass. We'll go ahead load distal this all you want We rock solid. That's fine. Very cool, dude. Yeah, I like that a lot We went from like packing the shoulder right to to create that stability like and really force that issue versus now like setting the shoulder So there's a little bit more of a so that would be the progression of the bottom on your kettlebell rotation Yeah, same thing. That's the first thing I cute. It's like literally It's the just a different vector where now we're like you said we're pat now We're gonna pack the shoulder but now can you stabilize from here and tuck the elbow in because now I mean, this is inherently stable if my wrist is over my elbow, right? All I need to do is lower that down granted I need to have the right Scapular positioning to allow for that full flexion to happen But the first thing I cute so the progression from this movement is right in to a single arm kettlebell press now We're packing the shoulder now We're gonna see how that grip responds so that's sort of rewiring from that dead hang scab set on the overhead position Wow, I'm gonna be doing that. I know we definitely should go shoot a video. In fact, we should do that right now Yeah, we'll do that and say what in the in the powerlifting world with the way you train. Do you see anybody? Approaching training kind of like you do Or is it more just training mention of rom wad in like what they're up to? Okay, yeah, they're they're more in the crossfit realm They mean they they cross over and they they break in a little bit But yeah, as far as ours like my style of training. It's I mean it's catching on it has to Like if you want to be in this because if you look at the guys at the top essentially, yeah, because I mean it's it's That stuff doesn't get posted But I mean guys are doing this and it's the guys that the their videos are consistently You know 500 plus benches. They're consistently 800 pound squats 800 pound deadlifts. They're doing it It's not on instagram because no one likes it because all they all the kids It's boring. Yeah, and it's like they're it's and those who are sort of flash in the pan coming up We've got there just by some genetic freak bulletproof resiliency to you know bad form and no stability work Are starting to see the writing on the wall because they've seen other people who've come up real quick Go down just as quick as they've come up So, you know building that foundation building that stability, but I mean all that's for not if you can't assess it That's right, right and the predictive value and that's really difficult because that takes more than a smile And I think what people there's a big misconception with injury in that, you know, oh, you're a strength athlete You're training with heavy weight. The reason why you hurt is Where they think of it like a car like oh, it's wear and tear. It's because of age or You know and the reality is no You're just not again You're not training those those areas that will move that threshold forward And so you're just kind of bumping up against it and at some point You're gonna end it's gonna give and you're gonna have some problems and we see tons of athletes Who've done this? I've experienced it myself with my own training and what a lot of people don't really like it's not sexy But here's the sexy part If you do pay attention to this kind of stuff You will build more muscle burn more body fat and perform better So at the end of the day, the results are what you're looking for also Besides the fact that you're gonna avoid injury and stuff because I know we have a lot of young listeners Who are like, I don't hurt. I don't care. I feel fine when I squat when I did lift one I you know, I mean that's and that's the buy-in I go for like because I mean I could you know You put up the flashy lifts every now and then but the majority of my social media content like doubling back to the whole fitness industry thing is There's a lot of people that get to where they are by by notoriety not by credibility Right. So the difference being like, you know, do as I do And like oh then they're de facto response to like any sort of further questioning is like but I squat 800 pounds So it's like for me. It's like I've yet to have to drop this I was just speaking in Toronto and I literally my seminar was why crossfitters suck at swatting like that was And I did and I presented this to a room full of crossfit box owners. Yeah well, I mean and I From my and I wouldn't do it if I didn't think I was fairly or mostly unimpeachable But at the same time it's like I'm standing in a room with guys that maybe squat 405 and I can put seven 30 727 so it's like if need be I have this smoking If some of the ace of the sleeves, exactly There's some brain child in this group like has read more shit than I have or read more researchers looked into the anatomy More than I have Yeah, I can play that card if need be which is like a lot of guys that come up who are getting into Because I mean seminars now are great Money, but you know, I've said this before you can you can put furniture in a room But you have to have steel in the fucking walls, right? And the seminars are basically like hey come out. Come work out with me I can't really say anything, but I'll show you how I deadlift and it's like there's no assessment There's no there's no predictive value of where you know, or no consideration of morphology like Oh god, you know what let's talk about like have you ever seen the lane norton diagram of how he squats And that breakdown that's sagittal plane breakdown. Have you ever seen it? Oh, man, it's priceless It's absolutely priceless, but it's like you mentioned him earlier. I feel like you uh I know we spoke on nutrition earlier. I was I was vague, right? Like I don't like kombucha tippy crunchy granola enough for me. Give me things that had parents. That's my stake on nutrition, right? but like Because I I mean, I'm a doctor of chiropractic of eight years of school I have thousands of hours under, you know, I have a clinical Doctorate not a research doctor. Yeah, so the assessment is everything when you're in my office. That's what it is Fuck yeah, I've you know what I I don't know how many patient files I have but the with acute injuries that come in I don't know if I have Two maybe three visits on average. So I have all these files people like oh, you're so busy It's like no because I don't see people every week because I mean my office visit is purely an assessment movement It really is the fix. So I mean I'll spend half my office and bring it out to the gym floor This is what you got this how you stabilize it this how you stretch it This is how you control it this how you avoid it from happening This is how you program around it go. Let me know if you have problems, right? Hit me up on email send them a few videos. That's the progression. Good. See you. So with so with lane squat Because he had a hip injury recently. He's always injured. He well because that's it And you know what dude, I wouldn't even want to sit in this room with that guy if he was talking nutrition Phd nutrition. That's dude. That's your that's your wheelhouse I don't I don't speak on it because that's not what I studied I mean by my designation. He has a phd and herniating this in your low back It's because when you watch his squad, it's like the femur length thing and it's like, okay, dude You're not rotating your hips and your fucking chest is on your knees If you use your glutes to stabilize that side on stabilized low back you wouldn't run into these issues, but You know, you can lead a horse to water. But to me, it's like and jim's the money I mean if we have we want to get on a you know get behind a common enemy here It's the same thing phd and nutrition. I wouldn't dare dare sit down in the room This guy except he tells people eat fucking, you know five million grams of protein every day Well, yeah, because it's protein powder because it's pre-jim, right? That's that's the whip Yeah, um, but it's the same thing and it's like to Lane's to Lane's Credit he when we talked to him off air. I mean he said that when it came to exercise like that's not my yeah Like I understand that whatever but that's not my expertise. Yeah, but the problem with it though is is Again, like what I was saying is the thing that people tend to do is They they should if that's not your expertise and stay away from yeah, then stay away from It's the beast mode like go go go mentality, which is so interesting to me. Yes because coming from that like It's it's it's laughable. I mean I train in a gym Like I train in like what I consider to be like the strongest gym in the states I mean we got four world record holders across Numerous weight classes and it's like to see him ran roar over like a 600 pound squat It's like we got guys the half a size going You done yet like and I can I get in on this first warm-ups that sort of thing so But I mean to understand the responsibility of a following you have like that and then to put out something like That that's sagittal plain description of the squat. It's like you're you're showing a two-dimensional depiction Of a three-dimensional right of a movement so much more complex If I were to assess the squat like to assess someone's squat I'll front to back or yeah front to back first I want to see how when you go into deeper knee flexion How you're accommodating for stability of that knee by externally rotating the hips of that bottom position I don't want to see some linear forward forward fold through three joints ankles knees and hips I don't want to see that I want to see those hips loaded I want to see you load into the quads first then as you go into deeper knee flexion I want to see you externally rotate. I want to see those knees and toes stacked at the bottom Yeah, your knees can go over that's fine sit back at the very end Drive those hips through use your quads to pull your hips to that advantageous position to finish the fucking rep Perfect. I want to see that from the front from the side tells me next tells me depth But if you're squaw if you're a good squatter, you can see depth from the front anyways But yeah, that's my little rant on I mean, just don't don't talk on things. I don't know because I think you know Like you said earlier a lot of the audience a lot of people that are into this are young Young kids of one. They're impressionable and like I'm shit that stuff I did like before I met my But it was ridiculous like you read some stuff and there's no assessment Just do this like and whether it's right for you to not just do it and it's like that To go out and go out of your way and out of your lane pun not intended To me, it's a responsible. Yeah the the uh When it comes to to movement and exercise uh and even nutrition Uh, there are general truths, but the individual variance is so massive That uh, it's incredible. You could have two people with the same goals And what one exercise and one movement may be perfect for one person and for the other person Not only is it not perfect, but it it's the worst thing they could possibly it's splitting the atom You split it one way you light up the world you split it the other way you blow the world up And now it's the it's the and I'm and I'm biased obviously because I have a clinical designation It's the ability to assess like we talk about dogma and research and that religious tenants therein If someone is a phd and there's a lot of guys who do I mean I'm not new to this social media Put the doctor in your title and then hopefully people listen to you and hope you know what you're talking about But it's like there's You need to understand that there's no Assessment of when and where to apply this research This is for those six people of college age males that participated in this four weeks That works for them clearly. Well, this is what I I feel like we get in debates about all the time Like I mean, I don't have a phd I and when people try and use that as your argument is as silly to me, which I don't use but it's like, bro I've trained thousands of people that I can go back and look at like Good you read a study that took 30 people together that was controlled that was probably biased But even if it wasn't biased was and then you extrapolate some of that Take that bit of information and then now you become an expert on it. Fuck you But you're a great example So when I first started writing for craig the first thing I wrote I fucking love it to this day I still talk about it It's called what we can really learn from research was the first online article I was nervous as hell and like messes away like hey, can you share this like oh fuck and It was and you're a great example because what you're doing now, right? Like I listened to you guys and you guys swung wellness You swung health for a bit and then you're like, you know what? Let's get diesel. Let's put on some calories. Let's lift some weights kind of thing I was like, oh fucking right, man Absolutely because I was going to give you some shit for some of the barefoot fucking in the case Come on, bro But like I was just got into crystals My point to that is like you have variables controlled and what is research book controlling variables And and analyzing and sort of this picoevaluation of like you analyze you assess you you implement and then you reassess, right? So if I gave you an equation with too many variables Then implanting a constant doesn't mean anything you have all your variables dialed in dialed in now It's like, okay. I'm going to change this variable this diet variable. I'm going to change that It's it was a constant So I know what that constant can do for me now I change it then I see where it goes and like obviously you've done this with yourself You know thousands of times and not even just yourself with other people like being able to sort of Put all the pieces together because if you have too much to equate for there's nothing you can do So the real the the real thing from research that we should learn from is to turn every every endeavor that you go into Like I'm going to try gluten-free. I'm going to try whatever it is. I'm going to try 5 3 1 I'm going to go 5 by 5 is like if you don't have a Control to start with you don't know or if you throw the kitchen sink at everything like I'm going to overhaul my life And then you start eating right and you start walking it's like and how do you know it's really helping? Yeah, like all the herbal life supplements were the one like that did it It's like dude you changed 20 variables How can you isolate that in itself and say that that was the effect of it? So it's so complex in even how the variables interact with each other and how they're applied and I mean Well, and then let's throw that let's throw the psychological curve ball in there too because there's a huge mental game in all of Oh my god, like psychology trumps physiology every day of the week And that's why that's one last second. That's absolutely 100% agree with you I'm so glad you said that that is very very true and as personal trainers What like as I've been doing this for 20 years Uh, I learned that early on and that's what made me successful Was that the cycle of psychology was the most important factor in all of this In all of the person trying to get you know lose weight and get fit and all that stuff And take that all the way out to top end performers Right, you get all I mean take that away from the the personal training client that's trying to get fit, you know put that what So in australia power go back to powerlifting just double back really quick There's two hours and 24 hour weigh-ins. Those are the common ones right 24 hour weigh-ins You get a whole day eat whatever the hell you want I come in at a heavy 242 like 110 kilos like I'm I'm spitting into a fucking cup for a step on the scale So in australia I compete on two hour weigh-ins So I've I saw a two hour window. It's like hey weight moves weight go for it So I mean I did everything under the sun. I probably put on like 13 pounds just like hydrating get Dude, I felt like shit. You know, I would sip on espresso caffeine bring down the blow a little bit But dude, I was walking into like I was walking into third attempt at lifts and I was like You know, I but I know in my mind like everything's done all the training is done every everything's in place Fucking get up there. There's 5,000 people Grip and rip just fucking do it and it's like Physiologically like if you look at my diet that day, like this guy should not be working out He should be on dialysis in a few years, but he should not be working out But if the the headspace from whether it be the soccer mom or whether it be the top end athlete The psychology if you get it right between the ears, man, you got it Have you identified? Have you seen this happen because you've been doing this now for a while and you've been working with Athletes and people with pain and movement issues Have you been a have you made connections between their emotional state and how they feel in terms of pain? Oh, yeah, so much as Asian like and getting away from maybe elite athletes But like you take a post-op spinal fusion. That's just a fucking nightmare founded in no research whatsoever There's there's a I mean chronic pain is in itself It's a cause and a symptom, right? So a lot of the musculoskeletal stuff I treat, you know, happy go lucky You know weekend warrior powerlifters. That's there's no they're not there's not a relationship with their pain But when you're on disability and you can't work you can't and it's an insurance company that's providing for your family Not you There's there's a dependency on that pain like chronic pain is a whole another bag of cats But the best thing I found is being able to regress exercise down to the point where there's that that psychological component That triumphant component I mean something as simple as like a step up to like a six inch box can be painful for something But if you can regress it to a point where they can get there there's hope we've overcome The next thing you know small wins man small wins. I mean, yeah chronic pain pain is a whole another bag of cats in itself But like to me regardless psychological or movement based the fix for me is movement Because you can get to the brain through the body just as the brain gets to the body Or the the brain gets the body through like the nervous system. You can retroactively have that effect, right? Absolutely. Yeah, I mean for me and my treatments in my office are you know, there's there's the There's the muscle work. There's all that but it's really hinges on assessment And it's like how can because I look at it this way like if you go into an office and someone the chiropractor pt Whatever massage therapist They're The external stimulus that they're putting in deep pressure massage is a is a thumb through the safety pin of the nervous system, right? There's that there's that sensory employee that says there's some sort of instability or there's sometimes a metabolic component But it goes back to the brain the brain says lock it down. That's tightness. That's trigger points That's whatever you want to call it now. I can have an external effect through different routes to the nervous system You know Think of muscle relaxation like a like a lock and we have a ton of different keys that can turn that lock to make that muscle Relax heat Biochemical take ibuprofen take a take a bike. Let me know how you feel you're sure you'll be flying, right? Deep pressure stimulus has an effect on nerve ending specific for muscle relaxation Stretching Golgi tendon organ muscle spindles and when taken to that end range of motion As a feedback to the brain that says hey, this is yeah, exactly relax. This is gonna go bad quick Hell touch touch by itself will do this. There's people who will go get massage And I didn't this used to blow me away. They'd be like I have tight shoulders But I want super light massage. I remember thinking like you're wasting your time But they'd come out and feel better and it's touch and tears by the slamming track man That's where light touches perceive that there's and that is the input to that That breaks that safety pin cycle, right that constant feedback loop But what you do with that transient time of that broken? That's the fix so that's where I mean everything starts in the office We'll poke and probably will assess but fucking load it So I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna just say that in layman's terms because what you just said was very very very important And basically what you're saying is once you send that signal Whether it be through deep tissue massage heat or whatever For that area to relax Now you do the work to fix it so that it doesn't go getting tight and get tight again Otherwise, all you're gonna end up doing is getting stuck in that cycle of you'll have an asian lady walking your back once a month Like that's gonna be that's gonna be it I mean that's and you Even preemptively like if you watch how I warm up like we'll get a lift in one of these days And if you watch how I warm up that's the thought process So the the progression and the implementation of different stimulus to open up to make that transient window And then to solidify it with some sort of dynamic stability movement And then lock it the fuck down by putting a lot of fucking weight through it Load the shit out of that c&s like if you watch my deadlift warm-ups are almost like yoga classes My squat same thing bench press and it's very methodical It's I break it down into designations of what sort of what sort of touch or what sort of Receptivity what sort of nerve receptors i'm trying to get to as far as like opening up that window as far as I can And then I then I try and stabilize the shit out of it And then once I have sort of have all the moving pieces in line Then I load it then you send a signal exactly and so that's your new default. Yes, that is solidifying a new default Did we send you our access to prime? You you you literally explained prime maps prime the way when we sat down with what you're saying I love I love talking to brilliant people like yourself and I do. I do you're very very smart guy Um, and I love hearing you talk about these kinds of things because it makes me feel so good about about some of the stuff that we've been preaching and talking about, and I don't have nearly, not even close to the education that you have and knowledge you have, and we were kind of, we were on the right track. I can't wait to send it to you. And the thing is like, I haven't seen it. Like to anyone listening that thinks this is a big setup, like that I'm pumping up, I have not seen it. Yeah, no, not at all. Well, this is what, you know, our trainer minds the way it works. When we dipped into this, you know, internet, social media, you know, podcasting world as a business, you know, the first things that we're going through at all, how can we really help these people? It's tough, because even when we created programs, we were like, fuck, you know, this isn't for everybody and we know that, but we got to, you know, we have to still monetize. And then how do we express that to people that, hey, these are guidelines for you, but we encourage modification. And that's where the evolution of the YouTube channel came was, here's things for you to start to learn to assess your own body and tools. And then we said, none of this is complete until we really teach people how to prep their bodies before they go into even a workout. And then think about the challenges with that, I can't just show a general priming session for squats because I don't know who's priming. Your, what you're describing before you squat in deadlift, you- It's specific to you. You did for yourself. And it could be the exact opposite of what someone else would do if their body is different. It's different every day. It's different every time I squat. I mean, if I'm at my office, I'm at Stanford all day, I'm on my feet, less is more. But knowing that, like, yeah, I'm ready. I'm good. Everything is where it needs to be. More than that even, warming up has been considered. People think of it as like avoiding injury. That's the absolute least- Performance. Yeah, I mean, if you prime properly, what you're doing is you're, like you said, you're setting the body up so that when you send that signal with your workout, it's the signal that you want. You're setting up the right default. And I mean, I've said things like, you know, priming properly will give you 10% more out of your workouts. I mean, that's a number- You're low balling. Yeah, thank you. Absolutely. Thank you very much. You take whatever workout you're doing, you do it right, and you'll blow your, all of a sudden, your workout that you've been doing for five years is kicking ass. Well, this was our answer or our pitch on, you know, get rid of the fucking pre-workouts that are full of all kinds of shit that everybody in the world's taking and keep taking more. This is the real pre-workout effect in your central nervous system. Yeah, let's do it through these techniques. Yeah, and save the money, right? Once you learn how to do it, then you don't gotta keep paying every single month when you run out in two weeks after you've been scooping four times. Such a great conversation in the direction that we went with this particular podcast. I think, you know, when we're talking about movement and the feedback between the psychological to the body and from the body to the psychological, I think we're starting to see more therapies, utilizing movement, people going in with depression who have maybe no pain, but they're utilizing movement as part of their treatment and they're getting much better. I think there's science now showing how when people smile, even if they're not happy, they feel happy just because they're forced to. I mean, it's really, really cool stuff, and I can't wait to have you on the show again, dude. I don't know where this conversation would go, but yeah, this is fucking great. I think we could, I could go with you, I could keep talking with you for the three hours. Well, I'm pretty certain considering Jordan's a buddy and that he's in the area that we'll probably be doing not only more YouTube series, which we'll definitely shoot some for this, but I would love to do some seminars or even hold one of those cool fucking meets here, dude. I think we should. That would be fun. At all comers? Yeah. Yeah, I think no federation. Yeah, dude. Yeah, we'll throw some ideas around, but I know for sure that it won't be the last time you guys hear. Excellent, Jordan. Excellent, man. Yeah, I appreciate you coming in, brother. Yeah, I appreciate you guys having me. Thanks very much. 30 Days of Coaching is available for free at mindpumpmedia.com. Also, you can find us on Instagram at Mind Pump Media. You can find my page at Mind Pump Sal, Adam at Mind Pump Adam, and Justin at Mind Pump Justin. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbumble is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbumble has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes, and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.