 Good morning and welcome to everyone. Welcome to the panel on the challenges in Latin America. I'll do a short introduction. My name is Andres Martinez, and I'm the bureau chief for Bloomberg News here in Argentina. I'd like to introduce our panelists and then just give a short introduction, and then we'll sort of head straight in. We have the former president of the Dominican Republic, Mr. President, Lionel Hernandez. To my left is Rebecca Greenspan of the Secretary General of the Secretaría General Iberoamericana. We have Ricardo Hausman of Harvard, I think you all know. Felipe Lareng, the former finance minister of Chile and professor. And we have Daniel Saboto, the regional director for the Latin American, the Caribbean of the International Institute for Democracy and Electrical Assistance. We find ourselves right now meeting here really in sort of a cusp of tumultuous events across the region the last few weeks from Venezuela to Ecuador to Paraguay, even sometimes here in Argentina. In Argentina, we can't ignore the fact that there's a national strike today, the first day of the World Economic Forum, and it's causing some troubles. And so we'll obviously discuss that. And the key here I think is to identify what the challenges are and figure out where we're headed for the rest of the year, what happens in terms of elections, what defines these elections, how do these challenges impact that. In the next year, many of these countries will have these elections, and the crucial votes are going to help us determine a couple of things. Where politics head, will there be a resurgence in populism, a return to some previous behaviors that we thought we'd sort of avoided in the region, what will happen with retrade policies, and what new or old alliances will be born. So to start off, I'd like each panelist to maybe give us an overview of what the challenges in the region are for just a minute or two. Now we will speak in English, and if you want to listen in English or any other language, you can use your headphones, Mr. Chairman, in Spanish, yes. So I would say that in general terms, the challenges we face in the region, in Latin America, are the same global challenges. We are in economic and political cycles which are closely connected. We would say that both phenomena that impact the most are globalization in the first place, and in the second place, the international financial crisis which has turned into global recession, in as much as there has been a consolidation of this phenomenon and it has had a political impact. For Latin America, which had its golden decade from 2002 to 2010 or 2012, and had high economic growth in general terms, 5 or 5.2% per year. This has declined enormously. It has reached 0.5% due to the deceleration of the Chinese economy which has had an impact on Latin American exports to that part of the world, a great dependence on exports of commodities, of natural resources which will imply towards the future a diversification of economies in Latin America and the search for new export markets. So that situation of deceleration of Chinese economy impacted the growth of South American countries and has generated discontent which is reflected in elections. So the most affected countries have lost the elections regardless of their economic cycle. In as much as it has been possible to overcome the crisis, the electoral support goes down but is maintained slightly. The most recent case and the clearest one is Ecuador. Ecuador, a decade of political stability, a decade where there have been important changes, a development of infrastructure, but the last two years with recession the economy shrunk. There was social discontent but as they are not on the brink of a collapse, it is difficult for the ruling party to win. They went on the second round but that's the difference between collapse and a recession which has been managed. I will speak in headlines and I suppose we could talk about it afterwards. I believe the first challenge for the region is how to carry out the productive transformation at difficult times, a change that we didn't have in the boom years. How will we generate quality jobs for the most educated youth that we have ever had in the region when there is low international growth and there is also the risk of protectionism, a new cycle of protectionism and obviously with the industrial revolution at our doorstep which will save labour. That I believe is the first challenge. The second challenge is how to protect what we did do in the boom years which is to reduce poverty and inequality. We see reversions, 7 million people have gone below the poverty line in the last few years. And therefore we are losing what we achieved and this generates important tensions amongst in society. The third challenge is the democratic challenge which includes in my opinion the citizens security challenge the issue of violence in our cities and how institutions and the political system will come up today to respond to society's demands. What is happening with corruption is the result of a society which is far less tolerant with corruption. It is more demanding with its political systems and institutions and institutions are lagging behind society and I would say also behind the economy. Finally and nationally speaking we have the environmental challenge the world has which is a global challenge and to conclude I would say there are five points the challenge of integration. Now can we take advantage of this opportunity to have a far more integrated region. What do we do with lagging infrastructure to integrate what are we going to do with the movement of people and talent in the region will we be able to give a qualitative leap to integrate further. Ricardo I was talking to a colleague of mine Rafael Litala who is there in Harvard and he says that the governments do or what governments do depends on the set of belief the people have and part of the problem in Latin America is that that set of beliefs of narratives of representations are a reflection of our reality so what would Latin America need to grow to develop it has to believe in the future it has to believe that the future will be far better than the present and that in the future there will be companies representing us organizations representing us and that don't exist today so undertakings have to be open that we have to have an open frame of mind to immigration to solidarity to the creation of a state which supplements and stimulates all these transformations and not a state taking the place of society a state looking to remove society's power to take its place not that to generate that dynamic that environment that disposition to certain political reforms has to be based on a certain narrative and which is Latin America's narrative the narrative of a good part of Latin America beginning with Eduardo Cagliano and La Venus Xavier that's on all the rest is that we are a wealthy a very wealthy region but that wealth was taken by the wealthy or the corrupt and what we have to do is not build anything because we are already there the problem is a problem of distribution of a fight in distribution so we get stuck in these sort of issues the world is made up by two groups a homogenous good group whether or not many conflicts and that's the people and as people of Podemos say we have the other group the castes and what we want to do is give all the power to the leader of the people so that he or she can protect the people from the castes or castes and all these democratic formalities are an issuer barrier which prevents the leader from defending the people from all these tribes or castes so I am depressed about Latin America's reaction to Fidel Castro's death did you hear what was said about Fidel Castro we know that the economic model was an absolute failure it goes against development and it is forced agnation but in Latin America's mind he was a true leader who faced evil to defend the good people and that attitude has been the attitude of Latin America with the catastrophe of my country Venezuela where we had to understand that this was a good leader of the people who took the country to an unimaginable catastrophe only two years after the end of the largest oil boom in our history so my feeling is that while we don't change our narrative my Leagentine story is that they are not poor people who are being dispossessed and while we don't create a narrative that includes all of assassination only then will we be able to come out of these difficulties Daniel, yes, thank you Andrés good morning to you all I would like to emphasise the following at this precise moment in 2017 three important junctures come together on the one hand next year the region will celebrate its first 40 years of the beginning of the third democratic wave which began in 1978 in the Dominican Republic and in Ecuador so for the first time the region in general terms in different countries went at different times to democracy and it has the possibility of exercising democracies beyond its failures and has gone through democratic learning the second issue is that in this year 2017 we will begin a new election cycle with three elections, three presidential ones one we have just had in Ecuador November is Chile and then Honduras and a mid-term election of great importance in Argentina because to a large extent the governance of the second stage of President Macri's administration will be defined but in the next four years after 2017 all the region will have 18 presidential elections and we have to focus on those that will occur in 2018 there we have Venezuela, Mexico, Colombia and Brazil which together with Chile in 2017 will give us a feeling of the path to be followed by the region in the next four to five years and the third is the juncture what you pointed out at the beginning obviously we are holding this forum at a time when you open the newspaper one country after the other says crisis, crisis, crisis in Venezuela, in Brazil, in Ecuador, in Paraguay but I think we have to also make a distinction the region has had very important things last year which have been concealed by this immediacy the question of the peace process in Colombia that is fundamental, a structural issue in the region there are other good bits of news but many of the crisis affecting us now are of a different kind the crisis in Paraguay is a crisis created by President Cartes for a simple region he is another president deciding to change the rules of the game of when he was elected to remain in power that is one of the curses we have in Latin America re-elections and one of the problems we have in Latin America is that we have to begin to say very clearly so as not to be too diplomatic what has happened because due to this fact we have a tragedy that goes back years in Venezuela because we never wanted to say what it was actually it was a non-democratic system an authoritarian system which could fall into a dictatorship not a traditional dictatorship this is a new form of authoritarianism the crisis in Ecuador is a juncture one and the opposition losing the elections and what happened was what happens all over the place I will challenge the results if the person is right he will win or not he will lose so I believe the deep crisis in the region is the crisis in Venezuela and I do think the crisis in Brazil is important but we don't have to look at it only in terms of a crisis but also in terms of opportunities and I would like to close with the following all identifications made of challenges and risks are shared by me but I also share the three fundamental risks which the World Economic Forum has identified for the region and the first one in which all executives have agreed on are failures in governance we don't have the institutions as Rebecca said nor the political leadership to face the new agenda which is a middle class agenda and not a traditional one such as in previous years another question is a deep instability social instability and the strike in Argentina shows it today but it's not the only case and the third has to do with unemployment and precariousness of jobs not only going back in terms of poverty there is an elephant, a white elephant which is inequality and precariousness of jobs especially among young people Felipe, yes, good morning a pleasure to be here in the first place I would like to express my solidarity towards my friend Ricardo Hausmann because of the situation in Venezuela we are friends and colleagues and our friendship goes back many years and I have seen him fight for Venezuela he lived in Venezuela I'm happy that Venezuela is beginning to speak at the OAS and governments condemning the abuses of against democracy and the way out, the exit you know that's not easy at all my first point is in political terms regarding the fact that in my opinion populism has gone bankrupt in Latin America with the exception of the case of Ecuador mentioned by President Lionel Fernández with the exception of Ecuador all other countries in all other countries, all populist rulers who have gone to or who have voted or elected have lost and in the Ecuadorian case there was election we don't know whether they won something very curious happened yesterday of the 39,000 records 38,000 where there was an agreement and 1,000 of them which showed that the opposition won and that will have to be analyzed by the electoral council the national council I'm not quite sure whether that council if they show them the reports with errors will recognize the defeat of the ruling party I'm not very sure that that will happen but regarding the rest of the elections this year and I would like to say this to be transparent with the audience in the Chilean case I'm not an independent analyst I'm involved and only for those who are here in Chile we will have better times better times are ahead now regarding other topics if there's any interest we can talk about this during the question and answer session and other issues for the region income distribution, poverty in Latin America we must not forget about the fact that it has been successful in lifting many people out of poverty what happened in most of the last decade and the super cycle of commodities is that those people were lifted out of poverty and there is an enormous middle class so challenges are very big we must not stop fighting against poverty those are the most vulnerable people but this is politically complicated because today the challenges faced by the governments are middle class demands and in Chile one of the big issues today one of the most important political points is the demand of students who want a free higher education that is not a demand of the poor but of the middle class or higher middle class this has politically been very popular and these demands the demands of a middle class who is overwhelmed by debts in education are the demands that will have to be solved by politicians and let's hope they do this in a responsible way this question of a boom of the middle class is a different scenario from the one we have lived before in income distribution it is true that in Latin America we have the doubtful privilege of being the most unequal region in the world but obviously inequality has come down but it's still high although it has come down and regarding this subject I would also like to say because I believe another big challenge is the end of the commodities super cycle I believe that analyzing the region as a whole and saying we're all affected in the same way is not quite so because it's a question of seeing what commodities you export if you export oil and you depend 95% on oil you're far more complicated than if you export another commodity in my country copper has fallen we are greatly dependent on copper same as Peru but we import 98% of our oil so the analysis is a little more complex and it differs from country to country like in Colombia Colombia is quite the opposite of Colombia what it has is oil 50% of its exports are oil and if we add to that coal and other minerals it gets to 60% and this has had a very strong impact so terms of trade have been quite different in all the countries and what have we done in the super cycle there are countries who built adequate institutions and today survive better because what did they do they had sovereign funds structural fiscal rules fiscal councils which gave long term stability says autonomous central banks those countries are in far better conditions than the ones who did not get these institutions and what they spent as Ricardo said Venezuela at the height of the oil boom had a fiscal deficit now today the fiscal deficit are 30 points of the GDP or something to that effect so there is high inflation because there's no other way to fund that deficit so I believe that here what is applied is what Warren Buffett says when the tide is high everybody seems to be swimming properly when the tide comes down there we see who is swimming nude so this is what happens in Latin America and the last point I would like to submit to discussion is what is happening with Trump and Latin America and the question just to discuss it here did we seem to have disappeared from the USA debate except for Mexico the rest of Latin America doesn't seem to exist and what is our response as a region we must not just wait and see what Mr. Trump decides to do the next day or what he tweets I was very impressed as an economist when he said they said that one one night at 2am he woke up and called his national security advisor to ask him if a strong dollar was good or bad for the USA to call the national security advisor and ask him an economic question is really incredible so I believe there is another issue there in this globalized world where we are facing the paradox that China today speaks in favor of free trade and the USA turns into a protectionist power I believe one of the points underlined here is the question of institutions and what quality of institutions were created in the region in the last 10 to 15 years during this boom and the boom of commodities that has come to an end Daniel speaking perhaps about which institutions or countries have made progress are we seeing setbacks as Rebecca said or is it a collapse what are the countries we are most concerned about for reasons of setbacks and which are in collapse I believe some are obvious I think the key issue here is as Laraín said to look at the great diversity and heterogeneity in the region we don't have much time and it would be impossible but to speak about Latin America as a whole is no longer possible we need to break it down into countries if we took the the economist index on democracy you have almost four groups of countries one of a more consolidated democracy which used to have three, Uruguay, Chile and Costa Rica two of which fell, Chile and Costa Rica fell and only Uruguay remains have we fallen you fell fallen because of issues of governance and excessive fragmentation of the political party system you may agree or not but argue with the economist I don't agree with the economist you can write to the intelligence unit I will do so immediately I'm sorry I've hurt your Tika feelings and Chile hasn't fallen either we have our issues but they don't have to do with democracy the democracy of the political system because the index measures variables of the political system then there's another group the largest group of the so-called democracies in transition or flawed democracies which includes some 10 countries that differ quite greatly among them and then there are the so-called or rather liberal systems where you have Nicaragua or Alba when you say populism lost everywhere unfortunately in Nicaragua Daniel Ortega is still under a clearly authoritarian system and falsely called democratic with a family dynasty now because he's put his wife on the ticket so these are the issues we need to put on the table to clearly debate them you have all of Alba, Honduras, Guatemala Paraguay and finally a rather authoritarian system including Cuba I do believe that our success over the past one decade and a half of lifting more than 60 million people out of poverty and bringing them into the middle class and the fact that for the first time the 32 percent of people we have the middle class plus the vulnerable group for the first time we have more people there than living in poverty opens up a new society with a new agenda one that I call a middle class agenda which is requesting three things give me more public utilities give me better quality public utilities and give them to me now a new middle class with these demands is raising governance issues similar to what Huntington proposed 40 years ago in the first crisis of mature democracies why because we have governments that lack the capacity in many of these countries of responding with good public policies because we lack the necessary taxation we need to talk about that with an average of 21 percent although in other countries it is much higher it is not enough and because we have political systems which are also affected in many cases by a deep credibility crisis representation crisis the credibility crisis among the elites so similar to the case in Europe and the United States we need to be mindful of the fact that when the middle class is happy it is a fantastic political stability however when the middle class it doesn't see a good future for itself and fears a setback as Rebecca said because you've lifted them from poverty and they fear they will go back down or fear they will lose their jobs if you add insecurity to that combination and the new issue of corruption which unfortunately is here to stay political institutionality to impose changes to adjust to the new reality the big question is and that's why I agree with the analysis of the World Economic Forum in that the key issue is in the failures of governance we lack the degree of institutionality and political leadership in many of our countries today we have institutions that date back to the 18th and 19th centuries to respond to complex societies of the 21st century if we add social media technology etc it forces overall re-engineering Philippe you mentioned the middle class in your comment from the beginning and Daniel is stressing that point now considering the upcoming elections in Argentina in six months time how does the political world or institutions respond to middle class demands at a time of little growth and much fiscal pressure what's the response and what challenges should be considered in terms of the direction politicians will be taking I think here lies one of the most important tensions in our countries currently middle class demands organized middle class now quite vocal which organizes itself and goes out to the streets and there are governments and I believe we need to distinguish between governments ruling for the streets and those who listen to the people on the streets but make their decisions to benefit the well-being of the country let me give you an example we've had a discussion which is a typical middle class demand a very deep discussion or debate on free of charge services and the current government says and it's funny because the president took office and when she stepped down as a candidate and she says I think it's not good to give education free of charge because we'll be giving it to the rich as well but the streets demanded and some of the students are representatives in parliament currently they called for free of charge education so three weeks later the president says no now we will choose free of charge education and based on the calculations in our center the center I lead at the catholic university it costs five million dollars more than what we're currently spending at times when fiscal revenue has dropped so we are promising the people that when we make our calculations the possibility of providing higher education free of charge for all not only university but also technical and vocational professional training it becomes very difficult and by 2050 only could it be possible if the stars align themselves in a given way it's another way of telling people I'm offering or promising free of charge education but I can't provide it and there are also demands in healthcare and other kinds of demands from the public sector so the government made an adjustment of zero in real terms to public compensation because somebody has to pay and after having introduced a tax reform and there's a discussion there because it slowed down the economy significantly and weakened tax revenues rather than increasing them so the tensions are in that this middle class is exacerbating the rights where are my rights and these are the theories of some who are stressing social rights which is volunteerism in my opinion because if I stress the rights and neglect the duties or responsibilities people will say and in addition I include this in the constitutions of these welfare states we will have a problem because people will feel they have rights enshrined in the constitution that they are not receiving so they will appeal to the justice system and we will see litigation and social unrest or discontent because when you promise people something you cannot deliver this is a kind of reaction you get so I believe it would be better and the two options are one telling people out there that you will provide everything they demand but that's a recipe for future in my opinion and the other one because it's insatiable and the other option is to work responsibly and tell the truth and the risk there is losing the next election and I would rather lose an election telling people the truth than deceiving people by making false promises Rebecca you have a point two points firstly when we speak about the cycle and who's losing and winning actually I think what's happening in Latin America and most countries with the exceptions mentioned is that there are democratic cycles neither the populist are always losing nor the ones who did things right are always winning right in a democratic system there is alternance and I think we need to get used to the idea that in most of our countries we continue to be different political parties alternating in power and they will think differently relative to what needs to be done in terms of social and economic policies I think that's the first point because it's very easy to say it's not that the ones who did things wrong are losing but it is a relative a subjective thing because those who did things right will be losing too first of all I think we need to be a little Manichean in terms of who's in power and secondly in addition to being less Manichean the true issue is that we see high polarization in the region so it's very difficult to build shared project for societies although there are different political parties taking office we need to find some things on which we can have consensus in society that will take place or be implemented in the long term and I believe we are lacking that this long term vision of society where all governments have sort of a backbone but a common core despite their differences is something we do not see and that's where the future challenges lie as we say in my country somebody is eating the pineapple and somebody else feels the stomach ache and that's the problem for the long haul governments are making investments now which they will not be benefitting from until way into the future that's where we need a society and institutions that are capable of maintaining a long term vision in our countries because our issues will not be solved in the next election they will have to be solved over the next generation and I believe there is a problem in the political system of flow in the institutions because indeed society and the economy are moving much faster than the institutional system this system has not adjusted to be able to respond and I see that partly what we are seeing is the populations in satisfaction vis a vis the lack of responsiveness from the political system and institutions and my final point and I'm really concerned about this is the distance from youth to the political system I think we need to invest much more in an intergenerational dialogue with the youth for my generation democracy is not a fact it's a conquest and we bet on democracy because of its functionality and also because of its intrinsic value when you talk to young people they judge democracy based on its functionality rather than considering it an achievement at the same time we speak of political parties and that political system they no longer feel represents them or includes them I believe we need to hold this debate because we need to rebuild trust on a system that will solve both things if we choose one over the other we will face trouble in the region regarding the youth and then I will turn to the president who has a point the youth do not see the value in participating in the political system do we need to adjust the political system or should we find a way of teaching it with the values we had in the previous generation perhaps I think we need to do both we cannot waive our values because otherwise we would end up with nothing in terms of our vision of what kind of societies we want to build but on the other hand I believe they are right in detecting an issue whereby young people are not included in the system and political parties that's true I think nobody wants to leave and the space for new people young people to take on leadership positions are quite close in many places Mr. President I think to understand the political situation in the region it may be important to resort to history I think there are shared elements between Cuba and the Dominican Republic in the late fifties 1959 is a key year for Latin America why back then the collapse of the dictatorship of Marcos Perez in Venezuela had already taken place and as a result of the fall in Venezuela there was a long democratic cycle in Venezuela that we know as the fixed point covenant in Cuba Fidel Castro started his political career as a candidate for representative representing the province of Havana however Volkensio Batista gives a coup d'etat in 1952 and the response is the attack on Montal in 1953 and 59 Venezuela defined a democratic process and Cuba started a revolutionary one my country the Dominican Republic was ruled by a long dictatorship Rafael his dictatorship fell there were elections and leader in exile Juan Bosch won and he lasted only seven months in government there was a military coup d'etat two years later there was an attempt to reimpose that democratic government legitimately voted by the Dominican people and the reaction was a military intervention by the US in the sixties there were coup d'etats against the joint government in Brazil and there's certainly pessimism relative to feasibility of democracy in the region civil governments elected democratically overthrown by military dictatorships so back then in the sixties the discussion was revolution or democracy I think this was solved in the late seventies as Daniel said between the Dominican Republic and Ecuador there was alternance in power through elections starting in the eighties in that transition from authoritarian regimes to civil elected governments we started planting the seed of democracy and overcame the problem that used to be the big question what's the only legitimate source of power it's not a left wing we're killing that with a agreement in Colombia the left wing guerrillas are not a legitimate source of access to power neither are the right wing military coups so the only legitimate source of accession to power are elections universal vote and I think in the eighties we started that transition starting with a creation of independence now within democracy I think that has also created a significant mutation regarding institutions I think Daniel there have been significant changes here institutional strengthening based on the Latin American constitutionalism we've seen in the eighties so we have seen a transformation from model of representative democracies to models of participatory democracies there was a consolidation of civil and political rights in those constitutional texts and an expansion of new rights Felipe referred to the feasibility of delivering those rights because they no longer political and civil but economic social cultural and environmental rights as well and citizens are given the legal power to demand compliance with those rights through appeals for judicial review so judges need to determine the right of citizens to social and cultural and economic entitlements another fundamental thing within a representative democracy changing to a participatory one is the direct exercise of democracy with institutions we didn't know like plebiscites referendum not only in Venezuela but in many other countries as well and of course those forms of direct participation which exist currently in Latin American constitutionality which is renovation for the region and finally in terms of the cycle I insist historical cycles match economic and electoral cycles not only in Latin America the impact of the global recession has triggered in Europe for example from 2008 until 2016 17 elections 16 governments of which have lost the only ones who were saved was Angela Merkel who faces a new electoral challenge so the problem is who was in power when the crisis overcame if it was a left wing populism lost if it was a right wing those governments lost so the global crisis created an alteration of the political system that reflected in electoral cycles and in Latin America to conclude the boom of commodity prices matched the presence of left wing progressive governments in Latin America in as much as copper and oil and natural gas prices were high governments were re-elected however starting in 2014 a new era began a new stage where the slow down in the Chinese economy's growth from 12 to 6% brought commodity prices down and that reflected on the next elections and now it's up to more conservative governments to be in power so depending on the economic winds will be their possibilities to stay in political power I think the president made a good summary of the points we discussed here and the most important challenge is how will that translate into people's votes and one of the most important issues Felipe mentioned relative to the middle class Daniela and Rebecca middle class demands and at the same time the high corruption in the region we cannot overlook the degree of the level of the impact it has on countries like Brazil Peru where we see stagnated projects because tenders have to be put out again so considering all of this what's your vision for the upcoming elections and these factors playing as a combination very well let me answer in the following way in the first place I was impacted by what Daniel said on what the middle class says give me more, give me better, give me now and what came to my mind was the Kennedy school statement if don't ask what the country can do for you but what you can do for your country and which is a story of the country that we are building the country is built but I have not received from it and Felipe mentioned this as well where is our homework here we have to go to a narrative which states that we want to build a country a far better country than the one we have so that our children and our grandchildren have something that we never got to see but we would like them to have and how did we get that far in the context we have to get there with more education okay so let's have education to get there but it's not a question of give me a kind of indication we want to build a country second point elections well I don't know there were elections of the legislative assembly on December the 6th in Venezuela elections haven't changed anything at all and let us assume that there are elections and maduro wins people in Venezuela are not free to import nor are they free to sell nor are they free to hire nor are they free to do big things they have removed from society all the liberties it needs to undertake to create and that is supposedly a participatory democracy what it is in fact is in elimination not only of democracy but also of the necessary freedom to create and I would like to emphasize one point which shows that Latin America is an outlier in the world except for Costa Rica and Panama in the United States 14 percent of the population is made up by foreigners 30 percent of entrepreneurs are foreigners most Harvard professors are foreigners in Canada 25 percent of the population is made up of foreigners in Australia, New Zealand 25 percent in Singapore and everybody wants to compare to Singapore 40 percent of the population is made up of foreigners in countries like Mexico 0.4 percent of the population is made up of foreigners in Colombia 0.25 percent of the population is a foreign in Colombia there is one foreign for every 400 people in spite of the fact that there are 40 times more Colombians abroad than foreigners in Colombia and when facing the possibility of absorbing all the Venezuelan talent which is returning to the country they have created all kinds of hindrances and barriers in Chile one of the most difficult problems for the country is that they are getting full of foreigners and they're not that white so there is an attitude in the region to close themselves to immigration and even a popular demonstration vis-à-vis the arrival of Venezuelans in spite of the very general support that the Dominican Republic has given to the Venezuelan dictatorship but if we really believe we want to build a country we have to absorb the talent of the world but that is not our legislation and that is not our attitude I know that you all want to respond quickly but I want to see whether there are any questions and then I will allow you to answer don't answer just now all I would like to do is tell you that what Ricardo says is very interesting but if one makes a good analysis you have to distinguish between supply and demand factors in terms of immigration why are there so many foreigners who come into the United States you say 15% there are a large number they are trying to get into the United States but the demand for migration is in the country there is also an attitude in the country of welcoming them or not I don't see that in Chile we are worried about the color of the people arriving but although the percentage of foreigners is low have a look at the rate of increase of migration Chile has one of the largest rises in migration in the world after Germany obviously whose rate has increased enormously we have an immigration law which our government submitted to congress to encourage immigration which was at a standstill I don't see that attitude there might be some sectors who feel threatened because immigration will always be a threat especially in labor terms for certain sectors but the country's general attitude is a country of welcoming migrants who want to make a contribution not to those who want to enjoy the social security system regarding supply and demand I believe the Venezuelan cases a natural experiment because now all of a sudden there is an increase in demand we can see how countries react in the case of Chile its true immigration in Chile has gone up significantly and immigration policy in Chile is relatively open what is closed is the labor market and regulations in many sectors and regulations of doctors who cannot register because the medical doctors in Chile don't want migrant doctors in the case of Colombia its pathetic its a country where nobody has wanted to go and they say we haven't been attractive but when people do want to go they can't get in and then they don't get their visas and the regulation of visas changes so I think it is an issue that no country in Latin America has an active policy searching for talented migrants as it happens with Canadians or Australians on that side we haven't opened up but in the case of Panama Panama is the country that has grown the most in Latin America in the last 25 years and I think there is a lot to learn from Panama in Panama and Panama has led to a significant immigration which the law almost forbids so they have been looking for excuses to basic laws to allow immigration and what Panama shows is that to grow significantly you need to import talent because whenever we say here there is a scarcity of skills we have to improve education we have a scarcity of skills we have to open up to immigration that's the instant response and those migrants with those skills will train the next generation of people and the successful cases like Corta Rica who has benefited enormously from the absorption of foreign talent there you can that can be seen in the story of all Latin America the history of Argentina, Brazil, Chile companies existing today are companies that were founded by migrants three generations ago but this generation is not receiving that level of migrants and this is a reflection of the fact that we are not trying to create a nation I think we could spend an entire panel dealing with this topic but we've only got five minutes left would anybody like to ask questions here at the front please thank you good morning now me and Nandi's global shaper from Salvador and I think that several issues have been dealt with which I agree with entirely one is a political class which wants re-election who wants to remain permanently and thereafter a third term in the same position and also I think our generation has been called a generation with a lack of leadership in the sense that we want to change we are committed but we don't believe in the system because we haven't had examples of heroes doing the work providing service so how do we assess a hybrid model of young people who want to work and contribute to the country maybe not participating actively in politics and it would also be good to assess I would like to hear your perspective about whether it would be good to assess or ensure some minimum positions young people for young people in our institutions same likewise with gender equality to give women access it would be good to do that in our institutions with young people as well very well I agree with the hybrid model I think yes that has to be discussed what I find is we don't know a democracy without the parties as we know them today I'm a person who thinks you have to strengthen parties they have to be more open parties have to represent that which is the long term they have to have room for young people so that they join, they participate they debate but young people don't believe in the party system parties are the worst like when you look at what is rated the worst are political parties what are the new organizations within democracy that will play that role and they talk to me about movements which are movements that I think now are more short term movements they don't have the organization allowing the democratic system to work on far sounder structures but I do believe we have to have that discussion I think that to open up spaces is the most important thing and we are devoted to that right now to open spaces of participation for young people and not only political leadership in society, in undertakings leadership in companies and the question of quotas I defend them for women definitely because I believe in them I would be in agreement but within parties and a minimum amount of participation in decision making I don't think the space is open just yes to think about quotas in terms of electoral representation which I think would be something else I would keep the issue to within parties Ambassador first and foremost thank you very much to all the panel for being politically correct in your discussions which led to a dynamic debate there was a very interesting historic assessment by President Fernandez now a question what is the dynamic and the position towards new constitutionalism or in the case of no new constitutionalism between a representative democracy and a participative democracy I will answer immediately but I have to clarify one thing my distinguished friend to my friend Ricardo Hausmann the Dominican Republic never votes in favor of dictatorships we have a mediation policy and dialogue promotion as the Pope has as the UN Secretary General has and most countries in the region it's not the first time that we've resorted to it in the crisis between Venezuela Ecuador Columbia the Dominican Republic and the Rio summit based on the dialogue and the crisis was resolved in the crisis of Honduras and President we participated with an intermediation role in as much as possible and that is our participation in the specific case of Venezuela but we don't support dictatorships and professor Ricardo Hausmann is a distinguished friend who helped me a lot in the solution of the Dominican economic situation in 2004 knows that but these are different forms of participation and just an anecdote to consolidate this or to show you a little care of what I said when I visited the White House an official state visit President George W. Bush waited for me he was irritated because of what Hugo Chavez had said at the UN General Assembly when it was his turn to say that they're suffering and he was furious he thought I was Hugo Chavez he really made a mistake he confused me he said all sorts of things to me and at the end he says what do you think and I said look Mr. President the Dominican Republic a small country in the Caribbean feels a friend of the United States and personally we are friends of yours but the Dominican Republic has a long traditional friendship with Venezuela regardless of the President the mother of the Dominican Republic lived in exile in Venezuela died in Venezuela we received aid from Romulo Betancourt help from Romulo Caldera also from Hugo Chavez we are friends of Hugo Chavez just as we are friends of yours and as we have two friends what we can do is give you the possibility to come together and we offer you the Dominican Republic as the scenario obviously he laughed and the dialogue didn't take place but the attitude the role the communication can play is to act as an intermediary between friends who are fighting so we don't support authoritarian governments or dictatorships unfortunately we have to close we could carry on talking for another hour or two only talking about Venezuela and what it has received or what it hasn't received but regardless of you can but I would like to express my regret because of the fact that the efforts of President Lionel Fernández were wasted in a nefarious dialogue which boycotted Latin America's capacity to make valid the democratic charter I think we will have to continue our discussion outside of the panel with this I thank you all very much for this talk which was very honest and as the ambassador said it was very rich and I hope you enjoy it thank you very much