 Bingo four-clock rock. I'm Jay Fiedel having a good time here on think-tech on on Wednesday You know and Wednesday Wednesday and that voice way far away Table that's Sharon Moriwaki and the lady in between and the sandwich here is Chelsea harder Okay, and we were when when I heard that Chelsea gonna be here I named the show alone at last but then Sharon says Now I'm saying it's a now. I'm saying it's Maynard's To energy efficient energy awareness month Maynard's to energy Chelsea what we got in a lot moment today tell me everything so we're focusing on professional development for teachers To bring energy efficiency into the classrooms So we actually did a workshop in collaboration with kahe So Hawaii energy and kahe partnered to ask you say kahe kahe So they're a five-year program that is focusing on reducing the electric demand in the The DOE schools and they're also bringing in PV But they want to focus specifically on energy efficiency So we developed this curriculum a one-day free workshop for teachers at Honovai So it's a K through 6 school and what we're doing is giving them training showing them how to bring energy Efficiency into the classroom and also tools and one thing is that we really want to bring home for the kids is this home energy audit where the kids can involve their parents in In looking at what their energy usage is and how they can reduce it. Hey, yeah. Hey, yeah Home energy audit. Yeah, let's go with that Just try to be helpful right right so they are they're going to do that for the month of September just in time for October the energy awareness month so we So those that are particularly interested in energy efficiency are going to be entering a contest where they have to write an essay about How energy efficiency is important in their home? The winner will receive It's called a it's a home energy retrofit from Hawaii energy, so we'll go through look at their life Charge for them they'll get to switch their faucets to have low-flow and low-flow shower heads Switch their lighting all that good stuff. It's not only an audit They're going to actually make the changes right right for the winner for the one who writes the best essay Two things about young kids one is they listen and they're going to teach their parents They are talking to their parents their parents can't escape them Everybody gets involved Now this is the movie you made you know Chelsea is a star. I hope you still talk to us Chelsea is a star Marvin Hong made this movie, right? Yes. Okay. Let's see the movie. Well, I can hardly wait My name is Don Johnson. I was an environmental science teacher for six years For as far as I'm the education program manager for the coffee project About So one more time Kelsey what what is the spinning thing we just saw at the right? What is that? It's a flicker checker. So it can tell if if a ballast of a light bulb is magnetic or electronic So what's the difference between? Magnetic is the old-school one electronic is the is the newer more efficient one So they have different frequencies different wavelengths So sometimes the old magnetic one your eyes might get tired because they flicker but your brain will fill that in So and so the kids, you know try to fall would kind of fall asleep in the classroom But now we're switching over to Right, right, so our brain doesn't have to fill in that gap where it's you know one of the big policy points is frankly trying to get the public engaged and Until they get engaged, you know, we we're half a measure If we want to do you know may I use your term sharing transformational things We have to get them all engaged. There's no better way than by the kids. No better way, right This is a this is a big leverage thing that you're doing. They're fantastic champions in the home And if you know if we don't make those changes, they're gonna push us out of the way and make them for us All right, tell them tell them what the message you want to leave surely there is a message look at the little red camera there Oh, thank you It looks at you So I would love to say it, please look at your home and look at Hawaii energy calm and see how you can make energy efficiency This is decisions in your home. You can also call us And you'll find the number at Hawaii energy calm and we'd love to talk to you about it Okay, this is Jay Fidel reporting from Maynard's for energy awareness meme And when Sharon goes it's gonna be alone at last Thank you so much Aloha, I'm Kirsten Baumgart Turner host of sustainable Hawaii. Thanks for watching think tech this summer We have a lot of terrific shows of great importance And I hope you'll watch my show too every Tuesday at noon as we address sustainability issues for Hawaii They're really pertinent as the World Conservation Congress approaches in September and the World Youth Congress That's focusing on sustainability next year as well Have a great summer and tune in at noon every Tuesday Aloha, I'm Carl Campania host of think tech Hawaii's movers shakers and reformers. I Hope you join us over the next several weeks as we take a deep dive into biofuels in Hawaii and Explore the alternative fuels supply chain necessary for the local and global transition towards transportation fuel sustainability Join us as we have good conversations with our farmers our producers our conversion technologies our Investors and our legislators as we try to achieve our transportation sustainability goals See you soon I pity the fool who ain't watching this show at 12 o'clock on Friday afternoon Stan the energy man watch it Hi, I'm Ethan Allen host of likeable science on think tech Hawaii I hope you'll join me each Friday afternoon as we explore the amazing world of science We bring on interesting guests scientists from all walks of life from all walks of science To talk about the work they do why they do it and more or why it's interesting to you What the science really means to your life? It's impacts on you how it's shaping the world around you and why you should care about it I do hope you'll join me every Friday at 2 p.m. For likeable science Hello, I'm Marianne Sasaki. Welcome to think tech Hawaii where some of the most interesting conversations in Honolulu go on I have a show on Wednesdays from one to two called life in the law where we discuss legal issues Politics governmental topics and a whole host of issues. I hope you'll join me Okay, we're back. We're live. We've met our fun and games with With the Chelsea hotter and Sharon Moriwaki now we're getting to the main part of the show here on Hawaii's state of clean energy And we're talking about energy efficiency with Derek Sonoda and my co-host on the far side of the table formidable also the host of Code green every Monday. How would we? Howard why don't you introduce the show? Okay? And for some odd reason I got picked to be the host because I like to think of myself as the energy Efficiency guy and so I will be having Superstars of efficiency throughout the month. I'll be introducing Derek Sonoda here this diminutive young man And then next week to me. Yes, I like that. That's good. Keep it going Howard the energy guy from Seattle and Seattle is the number one Efficient city in the nation then mr. Bissell from KI you see Kawaii utility Who is possibly the leading? Utility in the nation in achieving a hundred percent renewables clean energy and The wrap-up guy at the end of the month is Brian K. Aloha the new director of Hawaii energy And I think everybody is familiar with Hawaii Energy and we will be going gangbusters the whole month. That's a great lineup. No kidding. Nice work, Howard Yeah, you would have been the producer I had a little help from my friends or should I say strong suggestions? Well, let's let's begin with Derek. Why is Derek here? Derek is Mr. Energy efficiency in general and mr. Lighting efficiency in particular very very Distinguished career. He was one of the efficiency guys for Hawaiian Electric then he was one of the efficiency guys for Hawaii energy and Now get this title. I have to read it director of strategic initiatives For Pono solutions and Derek's going to tell us all about what Pono solutions is and we're in particular going to talk about lighting Efficiencies how to select a good lighting vendor good lighting product And I may have an opinion or two as we go along plus we've got a slide show Direct us along the way so Derek take it away and as you want the new slide just say can I have the next slide sure great So let's talk a little bit about this so I'm with a firm called Pono solutions and The reason why Pono selected myself and I selected Pono was they were trying to do something And I'm going to just say old school what they wanted to do was bring a lot of truth back into the lighting industry do it correctly and honor the customer and what the customer really wanted and The way energy efficiency starts off with for everyone is we start off with lighting because everyone understands light You flip a switch and the light comes on the unfortunate part about that is because it's so well understood this way People think it stops there especially on the commercial side And so Howard and I have been doing lighting for almost two decades now And we know that there's a lot more to just turning on a light a slight switch and you get your light You have to know what kind of light You have to know what kind of work is being done on the light You have to know a lot of different things and then we got a little bit sassy over the years where color rendition was really important Because we had the hospitality industry mean for mood for mood but you also set the ambiance with this thing and If you're not trained in this discipline It's easy to misunderstand what needs to be done And so we were constantly seeing the misunderstanding and what would happen is the customer would get energy efficiency But the poor things would have to do it again for one reason or another They got the wrong light in there or the installation wasn't correct for some reason It had to be redone and the taste coming out of the customers My opinion and others is it wasn't the best that it should be and so I Realigned myself with the lighting industry and some of the pillars of Hawaii's industries and we're very fortunate that the pillars of Hawaii Align with the pillars of the nation and we have a lot of good friends back in us up nationwide About how we can set Hawaii back on a path for really good lighting efficiencies Yeah, and we've been really proud about that. So one of the things that's the beginning to beginning when I was a small child Mm-hmm. My mother said of course and well all mothers say this She said you're not you're leaving the room Turn off the light turn off the light because I mean even though it wasn't as much money then It was important to save money and if you left a light out in the room Then you know, I always feel nervous as a result my whole life leaving a room with the light still on But did you mom also make another comment? Don't play with the light switch Because she did yeah, well you might electrocute yourself my goodness say so that's one thing I just want to throw in the hopper the other thing want to throw in the hopper for you guys To consider is if you go to a hotel on On the mainland many many hotels have this or if you go to Europe most of them have it in Europe Take your room card. Okay, and after you enter the room you put it in the switch there Yeah, and and the lights in the room do not work Yeah, unless the room card is in that is in that little receptacle Okay, and it's this elegant because it means that if the light switch if you're not there The lights can't be on and my mother would be happy. Oh, yes There is one state in the nation that has built that Policy into its building code guess what state that is starts with an H New Hampshire. Yeah, it doesn't start with an H. It starts with an N We think alike Hawaii leads the nation in requiring this exactly. Oh, that right So we have a slide on how good lighting projects start So I don't know how we work the magic here, but if we could have that slide up on the screen We go really good. There it is. So we doing lighting questions today and I want to go to the next slide after this is how good lighting project starts We want to start with an education process information experience learning solutions It's basically knowledge and we have some great people who are really good in this discipline of lighting Howard is one of them and we have some other people out there You can ask me later email me and I will tell you who those people are and they what they do better is They will tell you the honest truth and then they they may or may not be able to help you with their product line But they will tell you the truth and that's something that I really proud of that these people will tell you Okay, this works the best in your applications. So if we can go to the second next slide You're going to switch out from whatever lighting technology you have to the newest and greatest LED lighting You will get energy savings, but what we don't know is what else? So you pick a product and here's the thing that's been just kind of out there everywhere is Here's the question. Yeah, there's a length of the warranty period match The length of the company's existence who've been producing all of this and it's really easy to say I'm going to give you a 10-year warranty. We're a two-year-old company and How can they say that and you can believe that I'm not too concerned with the two years in the past I'm concerned with the 10 years in the future. That's exactly right. Will they be there? That's a big question mark But to understand that is the very first step into making an informed decision And let me jump in and say that LEDs still have a wild west quality very much So we does that mean how we the all the companies that are jumping into the American market are not Thoroughly tested and vetted. There is a test procedure set up by the US Department of Energy Not all companies go through that jump through the hoops and show their results If they haven't done that Lord knows what you're gonna. So if I'm you know in the market here I'm a client or I'm you know, I'm a landowner or Homeowner and I want to do the right thing and I'm gonna avoid that wild west pitfall What do I do where do I look who do I call? I said what's your phone only kidding that Derek's gonna talk about that But simply put if you want to do that in your own verification because a lot of people do Just go to the companies what the manufacturer you're thinking about and find out when they started and find out when they Why is when they started relevant? You know, they could be well capitalized with smart management They could have the most, you know, highly technical guys in the world Yes, that that will tell me more than how long they've been in business You know, yeah, I don't think you can say if they've been in business two years, they can't do a warranty for 10 No, it's looking forward not backward. Well about six years ago A company came in front of a lot of people in Hawaii and they said, you know, we had some people start over from NASA We're starting an LED company and their products look terrific. Yeah, the company doesn't exist today. Yeah They didn't they didn't have to make an evaluation You have to make an evaluation and you put your own value is there an organization around that will rate them for me There is energy star, but energy star has limited rating capability capabilities And you're gonna have to go there and at least it's the first good start And their criteria have been getting harder and more stringent every year. So that's really good But a lot of people say well energy starts they don't rate everything So how can you use energy stuff? But it's the only thing we have one thing we have Do you know, I mean how high are the stakes really if I get if I get a Wild West company without a warranty And I get a company, you know that that's solid that's established that has the best of the best and gives me a warranty Am I right to say that the second company is going to charge me more? Here, let me put it this way You put it in your project in there and you get a 30% failure rate Let's say the 30% of the lamps well and lamps today for LEDs They're not inexpensive for these things on the commercial side So if you kind of just do that numbers in your head if you had a Let's say a half a million dollar project and you had 30% failure rate in the first two or three months It cost me some money. Well, not only that I mean, what are you thinking that the product is going to last you for the whole duration of the five ten years that you're planning for it The likelihood in your mind is questionable now what's going to happen. So you want to make the best Yeah, you get turned off you get really turned off because you don't know what you don't know What's real and who to believe so these questions are to spur the thought process Yeah, not to judge the spur the thought process and let the client the customer make an informed decision So we're going to go to the next slide This question over here has been going around What makes your lighting expert an expert in lighting? So sometimes you got to ask the question. What's your background because this person could be a really sharp sales person But if you ask him what you did five years ago and he tells you I was selling furniture Um, you may want to go. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, or ask him about furniture Or did you take any classes? Do you have any certifications? Did you go through a training background? Stop it. Just ask. What is this expertise going to do for you? I mean, it's a matter of him Uh, giving you good advice or is it a matter of him doing the right kind of installation or is it all of the above? Okay, all of the above So those are questions that people aren't asking So since I've moved over to porno solutions, I got a chance to Hear what customers are saying and they're not asking these questions But they should ask these questions because they might come out with a different outcome of who they select and what products that they put in there So what makes them an expert? I'll give you for example on that slide What makes a lighting expert not any experts? There are two bodies out there that rate products for safety One we all recognize called ul and another one called etl Everybody says to me. They're the same. It's not true. They're two independent laboratories And one follows the protocol of another for testing, but they're not the same. What's different What's different is they're independent. So I'll give you for example. Yeah Toyota and Lexus Same company. Did you know they have different design criteria for Lexus and for Toyota? They will design a Lexus to last x number of years I don't want to give the secret away and they will design a Toyota for something a little smaller than the x relaxus Two same things not equivalent The two cars when you drive them are different, but they are everybody goes, but it's under the Toyota umbrella Yes, it's under but not the same. So when you say not the same, which one is the better one ul It's going to be up to them. So here's the differentiator. How do I make my choice? Yeah for ul the process of waiting for this entity is a lot longer for manufacturers and they have to pay a lot more The process for etl is they don't charge as much to test your product And they have multiple laboratories all across china and the us so they can do a lot more throughput So as a customer If you feel you're comfortable with ul and stick by it, don't let anybody talk you difference So we have a lot of history in hawaii, and I don't want to make up people's minds for them But we have a lot of history that the ul one is tried and true Is the government involved here does the government say that ul is is like this nobody oversees them Okay. Yeah, so you have to read up you have to know yeah, and then there's other two Logos on that slide one is going to be is Illuminating engineering society both. Howard and I belong to that and how right what does this entity actually do for everyone? It promotes professionalism in lighting You put out many many many publications the ies handbook is now literally that thick with Specifications if you jay could memorize that handbook you'd be a millionaire The the world would be beating a path to your door, but nobody has ever Memorized that handbook. It's so intricate may I say the same for you if you yes. Yes. Yes, maybe you're already a million Anyway, so but the point is there is a body that's out there That's setting standards. Yeah that the question may be to your expert or do you belong to is and have you? Gone to some of the is training for seminars all kinds of training Lots of training so so this is something you want to look for in the person who you who you hire to either design or install Lighting absolutely. So there's another entity called nima and nima sets the quality standards for energy efficiency For manufacturers. Yeah, so a lot of products. They will have the nima logo, especially on for leds Um, we have it on the fluorescent tubes for ballast and then we have drivers for leds If you have this over there, you know, it's been tested and optimized for energy efficiency nima stems for National energy, I forget that's what efficiency manufacturers association didn't jules verne write about nima Yeah, it's a little bit different though. Yeah, and then they had a cousin called nemo Little bit different. We're on the energy show We are Okay, so all of those things are one of the other things is your experts you ask this thing So the people doing the installation. There's actually an entity Yeah, the teachers and certifies the installers to do just lighting So this entity over here is i'm going to pronounce it wrong because it's an acronym now namco NAL NAL mco They have a certification process for the people touching the light fixtures To make sure that they're installing it properly What do you have to do to get the certification? You have to study for the test. Yeah. Yeah, you have to do this It's an online thing and on the mainland. We don't have it here in hawaii yet We're working towards that with these group of people that we're aligned ourselves and to do some of the certificates Because what we've been seeing on the road You wouldn't want that in your house. So we want to do lighting installation training Okay, let's regroup and go back to that slide All these organizations were listed So we can just summarize This is where uh, there it is. Okay, so you want to look for ATL or UL and you're not you're not recommending here today, but you just got an old ask the difference Surmising that UL has been around a long time. That's a that's a factor and then uh, IES you just mentioned You want to make sure there's an IES? What you call person there person there information about lighting. Okay lighting. Yeah, and nima You want to make sure that there's the guys nimo sort of nima certified the products are Energy efficiency. Okay. Okay, so especially on yeah the ballast and the drivers for led products The driver is the weaker component everybody talks about the chip, but it's the driver that usually fails Okay, now the kind of company we're talking about that would have these various Certifications is what it's an energy efficiency company that you hire to come and do an audit of your house or your business We're talking for commercial. Yeah, so for example the company that I'm with porno solutions holds all the credentials Okay, there is one more that I want to make a mention to which is going to be for safety education So a lot of people say well, it's only lighting. You don't have to be all this training for safety But for lighting especially because people aren't um Fully aware of all there's a lot of shock hazards And we go through the training to really highlight how to be safe because it's not as highlighting for the employees It's for everyone around. So if you had a commercial facility, let's say a retail store You have to do some lighting repair You're working on that fixture live the power is not off because the stories It's got to operate and the people have to be trained on who touches that and they have to have Electricians are involved. They're licensed Howard can tell us that you know, there's all kinds of government involved. I asked before about regulation This is definitely regulated. This is dangerous. This is very dangerous. So why why do we have to have Oh, this is if ma if ma is doing this. We know if we know if man. They've been promoting all of these things So 70e training. There's a 2005 edition. There's also lockout and tag out protocol training Which is very important The large commercial facilities have been hearing rumblings about all of these new standards And they're asking questions Unfortunate part about it is the people who are doing the labor work haven't heard too much about it yet So if ma hawai has been taking the journey up and coming they won the transformational Absolutely They've been pushing this so we want to get anybody who's doing lighting Get your people safe So the building owner or manager the company should be looking for that as well as the other ones you mentioned It now Howard if I told you that we had one minute to go on this show What would you say as co-hosts? What would you say extend the show? We haven't even gotten more Absolutely But lighting is your very first step into energy efficiency But when you do it not the best way Then you have a bad taste and you may not take step two Which is going to be looking at your air conditioning Yeah, air conditioning is another but lighting first everybody starts off hiding first There was an article in today this morning's paper where a construction guy was drilling into a wall He drilled into a live wire Filled down the ladder. He got in using very critical shape in hospital now Not from the shock but the fall. Uh, no the shock followed by the fall. Oh my god. It was a tremendous shock cardiac Oh, man day. Yeah Well, Howard, uh, but seriously if I told you we had you know half a minute to go What would you say to the people I would what would you say about Derek for example? Oh, he's a great guy I knew you'd say. Oh, thank you. Why don't you close the show? You're the co-host Are you serious? I am Watch this watch this Howard's going to close the show and Derek is going to agree with everything that Howard has to say Derek's emphasis is that you don't go into the lighting field blind It is immensely complex you Derek and I have been in the field for ever and we don't claim to know everything If you're going to be purchasing lighting looking at different sources You really really need to check out who you are doing business with Because you may get a used car salesman who is now into the used lighting business Or worse a furniture salesman the jewelry guys really scare me You're going to be You're asking for trouble if you don't really check out who you're entering into contract with All right. Yes, no question. Derek. Yes, how much of what he said do you agree with? Howard speaks the truth We have to be careful with the lighting because if your first project or first step into energy efficiency doesn't produce great fruit Will the funders let you do a second step? That's Derek's a no that he knows how to handle a yes or no question That's Howard wig great co-host work. You ought to be on think tank, huh? I certainly just give me an invitation and all of that There you have it. Hawaii the state of clean energy here on a given Wednesday Derek Sonoda. Howard wig. Are we having fun?